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"...two important but conflicting human desires for autonomy (standing apart from others) and connection (wanting to be part of a social group)." • I think sometimes you can be both at the same time. You can stand out and be unique, bring something to the table, whilst being part of a social nexus. | |||
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I know that doesn’t answer your thoughtful question, but my DnD buddies just *hi5’d me.
I’m a social person, I like being in a group, I also like hiding in a dark corner with just one person who gets me, it depends what mood I’m in. | |||
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"This is why I like DnD, I can be anything with anyone in a fantasy world.
I know that doesn’t answer your thoughtful question, but my DnD buddies just *hi5’d me.
I’m a social person, I like being in a group, I also like hiding in a dark corner with just one person who gets me, it depends what mood I’m in. "Like on a dark room. Getting hi5. Wait that wasn’t a hand. THAT WASNT A HAND | |||
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"This is why I like DnD, I can be anything with anyone in a fantasy world.
I know that doesn’t answer your thoughtful question, but my DnD buddies just *hi5’d me.
I’m a social person, I like being in a group, I also like hiding in a dark corner with just one person who gets me, it depends what mood I’m in.
Like on a dark room. Getting hi5.
Wait that wasn’t a hand. THAT WASNT A HAND"“Who cast ‘mage hand?” | |||
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"That's a strange definition of autonomy. My autonomy is certainly something I value. I don't view that as standing apart from others. But I like to make connections with people who align on their own autonomy. I don't want to be someone I'm not for the sake of pleasing other people. I don't want to hang around with people who don't like the person I am. I'm not grasping a contradiction in that 💜" If we definite autonomy as controlling our own lives, then surely the more we are invested in social group activity the more we surrender elements of that control to the group ? In everyday terms, if I go out alone I have a lot of control over where I go and what I do but it may be an isolating experience; if I go out in a large group this may be a more socially enriched experience but I will have less control over what we do and where we go. | |||
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"I have a conception of non-duality when it comes to self and other. Where we are on that spectrum is a reflection of our situational stimuli and responses to them. e.g. I feel threatened then I become focused on my self and the preservation of my life. The desire to connect is intrinsic to the self, therefore it is non-separate. Like the flower and the scent of summer. Even materially, on a nanoscopic level, we are in constant flux with the world around us." Very interesting Hans and in that world view the contradictions don't exist I guess ? | |||
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"I guess this where affiliation comes in. Even when not with others we look for affiliation, a sense of (real or imagined) community and shared values. Apart from Waitrose shoppers who just hate everyone. " Which brings a lot of us here I imagine. Apart from the fuckery, that urge to be among the like minded. | |||
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"...two important but conflicting human desires for autonomy (standing apart from others) and connection (wanting to be part of a social group). • I think sometimes you can be both at the same time. You can stand out and be unique, bring something to the table, whilst being part of a social nexus." I certainly think you live that way Nero for which 🫡. I still feel there are competing pressures that aren't always compatible though. | |||
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"I think I'm definitely on the autonomy side. I'm quite introverted, I am fairly happy in my own company most of the time, I have a low social battery and I can find being around people all the time exhausting. One of the reasons I'm single is I'm happier alone than just being with someone I don't want to be with 100% for the sake of not wanting to be alone. BUT even I still need connection and social interaction with people who I feel I belong with like my family or close friends. I don't think you can live a healthy life totally alone and cut off from people. We are social animals at our core. But I like those people in small doses, when it suits me "I like the 'social battery' reference. I can be very gregarious then suddenly I need to get the hell out of there, which can be difficult for others to understand. | |||
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"That's a strange definition of autonomy. My autonomy is certainly something I value. I don't view that as standing apart from others. But I like to make connections with people who align on their own autonomy. I don't want to be someone I'm not for the sake of pleasing other people. I don't want to hang around with people who don't like the person I am. I'm not grasping a contradiction in that 💜 If we definite autonomy as controlling our own lives, then surely the more we are invested in social group activity the more we surrender elements of that control to the group ? In everyday terms, if I go out alone I have a lot of control over where I go and what I do but it may be an isolating experience; if I go out in a large group this may be a more socially enriched experience but I will have less control over what we do and where we go." Isn't it just about finding the right people then? The way it's phrased feels like you can only do the things you actually want to alone, and group experiences are entirely about compromise or just tagging along with no will or choices. If I want to go to a gig, the friends who want to come along and see the band will come, the ones who don't won't, and of those that want to go we'll watch the band, drink and dance. What part of that loses autonomy? If I want to play DnD, which is always a game of compromise with the people I play with, that having to fight for the path to take and the choices to make are all part of my choosing to play in the first place. As a general rule, I don't feel any more constrained going out with my friends and partners than I do going out alone. If anything, I feel freer to just be me than if I'm flying solo and actively trying not to attract the attention of strangers who'd approach a woman alone 💜 | |||
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"That's a strange definition of autonomy. My autonomy is certainly something I value. I don't view that as standing apart from others. But I like to make connections with people who align on their own autonomy. I don't want to be someone I'm not for the sake of pleasing other people. I don't want to hang around with people who don't like the person I am. I'm not grasping a contradiction in that 💜 If we definite autonomy as controlling our own lives, then surely the more we are invested in social group activity the more we surrender elements of that control to the group ? In everyday terms, if I go out alone I have a lot of control over where I go and what I do but it may be an isolating experience; if I go out in a large group this may be a more socially enriched experience but I will have less control over what we do and where we go. Isn't it just about finding the right people then? The way it's phrased feels like you can only do the things you actually want to alone, and group experiences are entirely about compromise or just tagging along with no will or choices. If I want to go to a gig, the friends who want to come along and see the band will come, the ones who don't won't, and of those that want to go we'll watch the band, drink and dance. What part of that loses autonomy? If I want to play DnD, which is always a game of compromise with the people I play with, that having to fight for the path to take and the choices to make are all part of my choosing to play in the first place. As a general rule, I don't feel any more constrained going out with my friends and partners than I do going out alone. If anything, I feel freer to just be me than if I'm flying solo and actively trying not to attract the attention of strangers who'd approach a woman alone 💜" Do you fancy a game of DnD … I promise, the D&D can mean what ever you want…  | |||
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"I have a conception of non-duality when it comes to self and other. Where we are on that spectrum is a reflection of our situational stimuli and responses to them. e.g. I feel threatened then I become focused on my self and the preservation of my life. The desire to connect is intrinsic to the self, therefore it is non-separate. Like the flower and the scent of summer. Even materially, on a nanoscopic level, we are in constant flux with the world around us. Very interesting Hans and in that world view the contradictions don't exist I guess ?" Something more akin to: 'Difference must be not merely tolerated, but seen as a fund of necessary polarities between which our creativity can spark like a dialectic. Only then does the necessity for interdependency become unthreatening' They are an opportunity, rather than a threat. Thesis, antithesis - synthesis in it's most binary sense. | |||
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"I have a conception of non-duality when it comes to self and other. Where we are on that spectrum is a reflection of our situational stimuli and responses to them. e.g. I feel threatened then I become focused on my self and the preservation of my life. The desire to connect is intrinsic to the self, therefore it is non-separate. Like the flower and the scent of summer. Even materially, on a nanoscopic level, we are in constant flux with the world around us. Very interesting Hans and in that world view the contradictions don't exist I guess ? Something more akin to: 'Difference must be not merely tolerated, but seen as a fund of necessary polarities between which our creativity can spark like a dialectic. Only then does the necessity for interdependency become unthreatening' They are an opportunity, rather than a threat. Thesis, antithesis - synthesis in it's most binary sense. " Not many people take this Hegelian view of others unfortunately. | |||
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"I have a conception of non-duality when it comes to self and other. Where we are on that spectrum is a reflection of our situational stimuli and responses to them. e.g. I feel threatened then I become focused on my self and the preservation of my life. The desire to connect is intrinsic to the self, therefore it is non-separate. Like the flower and the scent of summer. Even materially, on a nanoscopic level, we are in constant flux with the world around us. Very interesting Hans and in that world view the contradictions don't exist I guess ? Something more akin to: 'Difference must be not merely tolerated, but seen as a fund of necessary polarities between which our creativity can spark like a dialectic. Only then does the necessity for interdependency become unthreatening' They are an opportunity, rather than a threat. Thesis, antithesis - synthesis in it's most binary sense. Not many people take this Hegelian view of others unfortunately. " Strangely, I have come to the same conclusion. | |||
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"Thoughtful thread alert !🚩 I've been reading about the two important but conflicting human desires for autonomy (standing apart from others) and connection (wanting to be part of a social group). I think we all feel the need for both at different times in our lives, hence the contradiction - we want to be 'seen' as individuals but also need social contact and support. So which one do you think is most important to you ? Do you sacrifice some independence to be with others, or lose out on some connections to be truly yourself? Alternatively, FAF ?" I'm much better being interdependent and not masking the autism. I'm still learning about autism so things like requesting parallel play is new to me. | |||
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"Both are equally important. Though for me personally I don't NEED to feel part of a community and I value my independence more. I can form connections with people on a personal level where there is no community involved. Trying to be part of some community and being accepted is what caused problems with my mental well being. Having a relaxed approach to this helped me find a lot of peace, and valuing my own autonomy and independence has lead me into situations that brought meaningful connections to me instead of me trying to seek them out." 'Communities' certainly make their demands on us, but equally excessive isolation can contribute to mental health issues. You seem to have found a healthy balance. | |||
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"To me autonomy is about being in control to make your own choices. Very different from independence vs interdependent. I’m very autonomous but value interdependence and connections over independence. Life without people and connections has little value " I don't understand your distinction between autonomy and independence? Having control over your own decisions surely means independence from others control.🤷♂️ | |||
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