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"Sounds more like a military body testing biochemical weapons than anything extra terristrial " I agree with you but I'm also belive we are certainly not alone in the universe.... Maybe other plantets don't have religion are are therefore more advance than humans. | |||
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"I stopped with the question "are we alone" about 15 years ago. I made the following assumptions, a lot of which are backed up by the sheer volume of exoplanets we now know exist/likely to exist, and the advances in philosophy, physics, and even biology which now have a far wider definition of "life", "consciousness", "evolution", "novelty". 1) Assume there are millions of galaxy-hopping species 2) If so, then it's highly likely they've got beyond their "nation, race, gender, war" phase, because the tech it takes to travel the stars is tech that can destroy (probably) entire solar systems. So they've been there, done that, and got over themselves. 3) Why haven't we got incontrovertible evidence then? Well, if you give a 4 year old (us) the ability to destroy a solar system, and say "there you go - go travel the stars and blow anything you want up", you'd be mad, right? Insane. 4) So we're the 4 year olds. And for our benefit we can't locate them. Assuming the above, there will be intergalactic parliaments keeping an eye on developing planets, doing their bit to help us evolve, but you can't live a 4 year old's life for it. You have to guide it to living its own life. So...I'm not a huge fan of the whole UFO industry - it's all a bit "Wow oh my God wow". I'm more interested in the political and ethical ramifications of growing up from the squidgy little destructive, rather stupid, and inclined to hate and destroy humans that we are, to getting beyond gods, races, emotional floppiness, gender wars, national prejudices, and all the other silly stuff. It's all political and intellectual, ethical, once you make that first assumption of millions, trillions, of advanced interstellar/intergalactic species. We don't know they're there, because we can't yet handle the truth. It changes everything we hold dear, and we're too stupid to have access to the tech without destroying ourselves, and their hard work to some degree. An unnecessary risk they don't need to take, just to satisfy our curiosity - not theirs. Every chance I'm wrong, but if you make that first assumption about millions of "beyond war" species in parliamentary concert, the rest follows fairly naturally." I agree on your first assumption that there are likely many places where life will exist and evolve. Humans have perhaps been around for a quarter of a million years or so, which is such a tiny fragment of the lifetime of our universe. From those years, we're stuck in an even smaller period, where we've had our more advanced technological abilities. During this much smaller period, are there likelier fewer alien civilisations in parallel existence? I assume so. The probability of parallel coexistent advanced intelligent life is low, but not nil, for say the hundred or so years of our most advanced civilization. And probably lower still that any of them would get to visit us, throughout this period. I think it's probably already incredibly low that they'd get to visit earth during the quarter million years we're around. The current crop of reports on drones etc is I assume just noise, partly magnified by changing political conditions. I've not come across reports highly suggestive of advanced alien cultures visiting here in the last few weeks. Though I already explained why I don't think it's probable that they will have, during our fleeting existence. If anything did come now, they'd certainly be vast orders of magnitude more advanced than we are. I'm guessing that they could obliterate us very easily, if they wanted to. | |||
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"The probability of parallel coexistent advanced intelligent life is low, but not nil, for say the hundred or so years of our most advanced civilization. And probably lower still that any of them would get to visit us, throughout this period. I think it's probably already incredibly low that they'd get to visit earth during the quarter million years we're around. The current crop of reports on drones etc is I assume just noise, partly magnified by changing political conditions. I've not come across reports highly suggestive of advanced alien cultures visiting here in the last few weeks. Though I already explained why I don't think it's probable that they will have, during our fleeting existence." Elegant and coherent reasoning. I'll add a few bits and buts. I can send you the links privately if you want, but a team of physicists, biologists, and philosophers last year did some chunky work on novelty, evolution effectively, being the default setting in the universe, rather than the exceptional setting. Then there are people like Sara Imari Walker (astrobiologist and physicist) pushing the boundaries on what constitutes life (Life As We Don't Know It is her book, just published). In terms of visiting us, they don't even need to. Even with the nascent science we have (Newton to Einstein, Einstein struggling with his own quantum predictions), it's looking increasingly likely that we can use entanglement for data/information sending. And Einstein, Bohm, Pauli and others were all fairly convinced there are further theories uniting the issues quantum/relativity have with each other. Penrose is saying similar. And theories after that. And after that. And so on. There's no reason why a particle in a distant galaxy can't be entangled (at beyond quantum levels) with my living room, for example. If you add holography/Implicate and Explicate orders, it effectively can lead to everything I'm doing right now being accessible anywhere else in the universe. So we can be watched from afar. No need for visits. This all opens up non-linear time as well, so the time-frames you've mentioned above are very situated in how we historically perceive time, rather than what time can be and do at other levels. Then you can drill down into "life" existing as some form of subatomic encoded intelligence, which also wouldn't have to experience time the way we do. Some form of time-not time "species" akin to AI (to use a 21st C "story", if we make it to the 28th C I'm sure we'll have even better "stories" of truth and reality beyond AI). With that (for sake of argument) neutrino encoded intelligence, tens of millions of years feel like nothing. So what you say is very true with how we currently describe things. But we once described them with local spirit gods (gods of that tree, that stream), then we described them with a bigger pantheon of more chunky gods (Olympians, Asgardians), then Zoroaster did his one god thing which took off, then we described even more accurately via philosophy, maths, physics, and the other sciences. And that's our current "Pan Narrans" on its way to "Homo Sapiens" or bust - better ways of describing as more information is uncovered, each newer way replacing the older. So, how we can further evolve to describe things more, and manipulate matter in the process, opens up timelines of existence not only millions of years long, but potentially connected to all of space and all of time in any direction. We still think time travels in one direction, when it may not, actually, be even the thing we call time in the first place. | |||
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"Following on from the ghosts thread... For the past month or so there's been a rapidly increasing number of Unidentified Ariel Phenomena (new name for UFO's) sightings and reports. Started out over New Jersey but rapidly expanded to reports all over the globe including the UK. The go to word for these objects is "drones" but when viewing the veritable plethora of uploaded video's it's quite clear that a considerable number are not "drones". Some are perfect spheres which can move at incredible speed and perform manoeuvres which our own (known) technology is incapable of performing. Some footage shows an unknown liquid and molten metal being dropped by these crafts. There's also a strange fog which is causing breathing problems and rashes to appear on people. Now, I'm pretty open minded on this subject and yes, there are many possibilities as to what the phenomena is and what could be causing it. Several top people believe there is going to be disclosure as to the big question "are we alone"? Are there any believers here? Is it a huge hoax or distraction tactic to hide something? All views are valid and should be respected. No nastiness or ridicule please." Omg the Aliens have arrived batten down the hatches everyone and take a spare pair of pants wherever you go . | |||
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"Nature finds a balance.... It will tip like a sea saw and us humans will fall off..... Not all but quite a few. " We have gravity remember . | |||
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"I guess we'll never know...." but we can work it out; N = R* · fp · ne · fl · fi · fc · L | |||
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"I guess we'll never know.... but we can work it out; N = R* · fp · ne · fl · fi · fc · L " That's a valiant attempt to kill the thread Dai  . | |||
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"I guess we'll never know.... but we can work it out; N = R* · fp · ne · fl · fi · fc · L That's a valiant attempt to kill the thread Dai ."what's this mean... I've no idea | |||
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"If you want to look up the equation for the maths it's called drakes equation. " iim struggling with cestrial navigation as it is. But I'll check. It out. Frances Drake was a sailor... Not his equation | |||
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"If you want to look up the equation for the maths it's called drakes equation. " I just checked it out, quite complex.... Is it assuming life like ours. What if it was life say an angel. I know make believe.... Is it assuming it's life like humans. | |||
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"If you want to look up the equation for the maths it's called drakes equation. I just checked it out, quite complex.... Is it assuming life like ours. What if it was life say an angel. I know make believe.... Is it assuming it's life like humans. " I'm no expert on the subject but I believe it's any other sentient life form. Whether that's advanced or rudimentary intelligence | |||
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"For quite a few years a couple of dudes from the UK convinced people that Crop Circles were caused by aliens rather than themselves some rope and some board. We humans love a story and we are very willing to believe those stories. As others have said, there is very low probability that our planet is the only one able to support life in the universe, but the chance that it is happening at the same time in two different parts of the universe is lower still. So assumption is if we did get any signals of life, they would be arriving from some time in the distant past." The very definition of how far away a potentially life-supporting planet must be, means any signals we receive from such a place would represent the past, by the time we get them. The only way we'd not be dealing with information from the past is if the aliens irrefutably turned up on Earth or we found the Man in the Moon or some form of life observed directly on a planet in our solar system. We're pretty confident there's no intelligent life in this solar system. We've not even identified anything resembling basic cellular life current or past, on any planet we've investigated in this solar system thus far. That all said, we're assuming that alien life forms will follow the carbon based, water requiring situation we observe on Earth. There may be forms of life that we don't recognise as such because they're completely different from our cellular basis. Bear in mind that for aliens to have been found on Earth, they'll have to have travelled from beyond our solar system and that is very, very far away. The likelihood of a life form capable of inter-system travel is exceeding if not vanishingly small. Not impossible, but exceptionally unlikely. I s'pose it's like the thing where no-one can conclusively prove or disprove in reality that there's a god or gods. Same with aliens. So far, at least. | |||
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"For quite a few years a couple of dudes from the UK convinced people that Crop Circles were caused by aliens rather than themselves some rope and some board. We humans love a story and we are very willing to believe those stories. It's true there was two guys that hoaxes various crop circles/patterns but there are also unexplained ones that differ in the scientific evidence gathered on site. For example the hoaxes ones exhibited signs of physical flattening. And where not mathematically/geometrically accurate. Whereas other unexplained ones show different forensic evidence. The stems haven't been physically flatterned down but have had the nodes exploded/ruptured in a similar way to how pop corn explodes in a microwave. Also trace radiation is left at the scene and even after the fields has been reploughed and re planted signs are still present. Things like the plants have been altered at a genetic level and the patterns are still semi visible. As others have said, there is very low probability that our planet is the only one able to support life in the universe, but the chance that it is happening at the same time in two different parts of the universe is lower still. So assumption is if we did get any signals of life, they would be arriving from some time in the distant past." | |||
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"For quite a few years a couple of dudes from the UK convinced people that Crop Circles were caused by aliens rather than themselves some rope and some board. We humans love a story and we are very willing to believe those stories. It's true there was two guys that hoaxes various crop circles/patterns but there are also unexplained ones that differ in the scientific evidence gathered on site. For example the hoaxes ones exhibited signs of physical flattening. And where not mathematically/geometrically accurate. Whereas other unexplained ones show different forensic evidence. The stems haven't been physically flatterned down but have had the nodes exploded/ruptured in a similar way to how pop corn explodes in a microwave. Also trace radiation is left at the scene and even after the fields has been reploughed and re planted signs are still present. Things like the plants have been altered at a genetic level and the patterns are still semi visible. As others have said, there is very low probability that our planet is the only one able to support life in the universe, but the chance that it is happening at the same time in two different parts of the universe is lower still. So assumption is if we did get any signals of life, they would be arriving from some time in the distant past." | |||
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"Following on from the ghosts thread... For the past month or so there's been a rapidly increasing number of Unidentified Ariel Phenomena (new name for UFO's) sightings and reports. Started out over New Jersey but rapidly expanded to reports all over the globe including the UK. The go to word for these objects is "drones" but when viewing the veritable plethora of uploaded video's it's quite clear that a considerable number are not "drones". Some are perfect spheres which can move at incredible speed and perform manoeuvres which our own (known) technology is incapable of performing. Some footage shows an unknown liquid and molten metal being dropped by these crafts. There's also a strange fog which is causing breathing problems and rashes to appear on people. Now, I'm pretty open minded on this subject and yes, there are many possibilities as to what the phenomena is and what could be causing it. Several top people believe there is going to be disclosure as to the big question "are we alone"? Are there any believers here? Is it a huge hoax or distraction tactic to hide something? All views are valid and should be respected. No nastiness or ridicule please." With the expanse of space it would ignorant of us to assume we are the only planet to support life. And that there are not other life forms out there. For example people believe in Jesus's and God but has anyone ever met them no. | |||
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"Following on from the ghosts thread... For the past month or so there's been a rapidly increasing number of Unidentified Ariel Phenomena (new name for UFO's) sightings and reports. Started out over New Jersey but rapidly expanded to reports all over the globe including the UK. The go to word for these objects is "drones" but when viewing the veritable plethora of uploaded video's it's quite clear that a considerable number are not "drones". Some are perfect spheres which can move at incredible speed and perform manoeuvres which our own (known) technology is incapable of performing. Some footage shows an unknown liquid and molten metal being dropped by these crafts. There's also a strange fog which is causing breathing problems and rashes to appear on people. Now, I'm pretty open minded on this subject and yes, there are many possibilities as to what the phenomena is and what could be causing it. Several top people believe there is going to be disclosure as to the big question "are we alone"? Are there any believers here? Is it a huge hoax or distraction tactic to hide something? All views are valid and should be respected. No nastiness or ridicule please. With the expanse of space it would ignorant of us to assume we are the only planet to support life. And that there are not other life forms out there. For example people believe in Jesus's and God but has anyone ever met them no. " Tbf, some humans believe some absolutely wild things, including things that a primary school aged child with a basic education could dispel. So belief in a god or gods means absolutely nothing at all. It neither proves nor disproves the existence and doesn't make the existence any more likely. | |||
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"Following on from the ghosts thread... For the past month or so there's been a rapidly increasing number of Unidentified Ariel Phenomena (new name for UFO's) sightings and reports. Started out over New Jersey but rapidly expanded to reports all over the globe including the UK. The go to word for these objects is "drones" but when viewing the veritable plethora of uploaded video's it's quite clear that a considerable number are not "drones". Some are perfect spheres which can move at incredible speed and perform manoeuvres which our own (known) technology is incapable of performing. Some footage shows an unknown liquid and molten metal being dropped by these crafts. There's also a strange fog which is causing breathing problems and rashes to appear on people. Now, I'm pretty open minded on this subject and yes, there are many possibilities as to what the phenomena is and what could be causing it. Several top people believe there is going to be disclosure as to the big question "are we alone"? Are there any believers here? Is it a huge hoax or distraction tactic to hide something? All views are valid and should be respected. No nastiness or ridicule please. With the expanse of space it would ignorant of us to assume we are the only planet to support life. And that there are not other life forms out there. For example people believe in Jesus's and God but has anyone ever met them no. Tbf, some humans believe some absolutely wild things, including things that a primary school aged child with a basic education could dispel. So belief in a god or gods means absolutely nothing at all. It neither proves nor disproves the existence and doesn't make the existence any more likely. " some even believe they are victims. | |||
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"Or are mankind a the result of a species of nomadic aliens that colonised earth and have therefore been ever-present throughout society? " This is a theory I could subscribe to! | |||
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"There is some very good footage of crop formations actually forming in real time in front of a camera on the Internet. The videos show what appears to be some orb of energy flying round the field. Whether this is a ball of plasma or ball lighting is unknown. But at several points this orb splits into other orbs and reforms into one. Worth a watch if your truely interested " Once it was said that the camera cannot lie. Sadly, with modern technology, anyone with a decent app on their phone can create these kinds of video's. In fact there are apps specifically for this purpose (add ghosts to photo etc). | |||
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"Or are mankind a the result of a species of nomadic aliens that colonised earth and have therefore been ever-present throughout society? " So they dropped off some Stone Age men to evolve?or was it their spaceship and not an asteroid that crashed into earth to kill off the dinosaurs allowing for the age of mammals to begin? See I think there are flaws in your hypothesis. There would be some archaeological evidence and a lot less time in the dark ages and preindustrial eras. Anyone arriving with technology to travel that far through space surely wouldn’t have got excited at inventing the wheel or fire? | |||
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"Or are mankind a the result of a species of nomadic aliens that colonised earth and have therefore been ever-present throughout society? So they dropped off some Stone Age men to evolve?or was it their spaceship and not an asteroid that crashed into earth to kill off the dinosaurs allowing for the age of mammals to begin? See I think there are flaws in your hypothesis. There would be some archaeological evidence and a lot less time in the dark ages and preindustrial eras. Anyone arriving with technology to travel that far through space surely wouldn’t have got excited at inventing the wheel or fire?"  | |||
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"To paraphrase Carl Sagan, there can only be two possibilities: We’re alone in the Universe, or we’re not, both of which are astonishing " | |||
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