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Months, our Calendar, Anglo-Saxons & stuff

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By *ohnjones3210 OP   Man
1 week ago

Chester

Hello again!

Ladies and gentlemen, get a bucket and a mop for this w...inding and manoeuvring collection of text! This one is about our months/calendar.

If you think about it, our month names are not so strange in comparison to the rest of Europe, but they are weird in the sense that they are not very 'Anglish' sounding. In fact, the month names that we use are not English at all, and they even extend beyond Europe. For example, even in Arabic, month names are similar. If you look at the geological extent of the countries that use similar month names, something starts to make sense though: the users are those countries that were (at some time) under the influence of the Roman empire, or those that were in some way related.

In particular, the core states of the previous Roman empire all use their own nationalised versions of month names that bear a very strong resemblance to ours. Even some states that were not under their control or influence also adopted them, for example; Norway, Denmark, Sweden, etc. My guess for the reason why is that they were influenced by Britannia and modern-day Belgium via sea-trade.

So, working our way up again; our month names are not Celtic. After the Celts, there were the Romans, and our month names are of this origin.

This raises an interesting issue though; the Anglo-Saxons who subsequently came over to settle in Britannia after the Romans left - these guys generally weren't very accepting of Romanisation. Wherever possible, it seems that they would use their own language (of course) and press their own culture. Where there was a 'good Roman idea', they would often copy/replace the concept but put their own spin on it (for example the day names). Anyway, after the Romans left, the people of Britannia predominantly started to speak more and more Anglo-Saxon rather than Latin (or Celtic), and ultimately, this is why we speak a Germanic-based language today rather than a Latin-based one.

The Anglo-Saxons did bring their month names and calendar over and presumbly develop them while they were here too. They had their own. Their month names were:

Æftera-Geol-monaþ: After-yule-month

Solmonaþ: Sunmonth

Hreðmonaþ: Hrethmonth (Not sure what that means)

Eosturmonaþ: Eastermonth

Ðrimilcemonaþ: Threemilkingsmonth

Ærra-Liða-monaþ: Before-travelling-month

Æftera-Liða-monaþ: After-travelling-month

Weodmonaþ: Weedmonth

Haligmonaþ: Holymonth

Winterfylleð: Winter-something? Winter-filleth? (University of Oxford doesn't understand this either)

Blotmonaþ: Bloodmonth

Ærra-Geol-monaþ: Before-yule-month

I was originally going to explain these more but I don't want to make the thread massive. However, consider it from the point of view of agricultural people and you'll get the idea.

So, if the Anglo-Saxons had their calendar, and these month names, and the attitude that they wanted to oppose Romanisation, why do we have a Latin calendar and not an Anglo-Saxon one today?

So, as I explained in the last thread, the Anglo-Saxons were obsessed with the Moon. They had a Lunar calendar. Their calendar was based on the phases or cycles of the Moon. The problem with the Lunar calendar is that the timing of 12 Lunar cycles does not match up with how long it takes for the Earth to orbit the Sun. What this meant is that the seasons would shift away from their calendar. In other words, there were less than 365.25 days in their 12 Lunar cycle calendar! To get around this, they added an extra month (a leap month) every 2 years to try to realign it. But this wasn't a very elegant solution. You've got a year of 12 months, then a year of 13 months the year after. Over those 2 years, the middle point was 'off season' by around 15 days, and even after adding the leap month within 2 years, the calendar was still out by around 6 days over that period! The leap month would be added into the middle of the year, and all in all, the whole system was a pain in the arse to deal with.

The Romans, however, had already worked this out, and they had a solar-tweaked, Moon-inspired calendar. The Roman calendar was basically a version of a Lunar calendar that had been chopped up and forced to fit the timing of the Earth's orbit around the Sun (apart from a quarter of a day). You could also use this tweaked calendar to trade and collaborate with other ex-Roman states. Without unifying, the calendars would overlap, and just wouldn't make any sense. Remember that every two years, Summer would be 2 months long. It's probably for these two reasons why the Anglo-Saxons adopted this new Latin calendar, and henceforth, why we use it's basis today.

Anyway, so instead, we have the boring Latin months:

January: Janus (a Roman god)

February: Februa (a Roman god)

March: Mars (a Roman god) (This is the old Roman first month!)

April: Not sure but it makes sense that it would be named after a god - Aphrodite?

May: Maja (a Roman goddess)

June: Juno (a Roman goddess)

July: (Would have been Quintember - Fifth month) Renamed after Julius Caesar.

August: (Would have been Sextember - Sixth month) Renamed after Augustus Caesar.

September: Seventh month - as in Septagon - shape with seven sides.

October: Eighth month - as in Octagon - shape with eight sides.

November: Nineth month - as in Nonagon - shape with nine sides.

December: Tenth month - as in Decagon - shape with ten sides, Decimal, having 10 units, etc.

There's a bit more info for you all.

Enjoy and have a good night!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod

1 week ago

East Sussex

Just comment to come back to

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By *emorefridaCouple
1 week ago

La la land

[Removed by poster at 11/11/24 21:36:26]

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By *emorefridaCouple
1 week ago

La la land

That's interesting thanks you.

In Welsh we have some latin influences too

Ionawr

Chwefror

Mawrth

Ebrill

Mai

Mehefin

Away

Medi

Hydref

Tachwedd

Rhagfyr

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By *emorefridaCouple
1 week ago

La la land


"That's interesting thanks you.

In Welsh we have some latin influences too

Ionawr

Chwefror

Mawrth

Ebrill

Mai

Mehefin

Away

Medi

Hydref

Tachwedd

Rhagfyr "

Awst not away blooming autocorrect

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By *amie HantsWoman
1 week ago

Atlantis

Oooh! I love this!

I think April might be Apollo. Romans renamed Aphrodite to Venus but I don’t think they renamed Apollo

🤓

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By *ohnjones3210 OP   Man
1 week ago

Chester


"That's interesting thanks you.

In Welsh we have some latin influences too

Ionawr

Chwefror

Mawrth

Ebrill

Mai

Mehefin

Away

Medi

Hydref

Tachwedd

Rhagfyr "

That's interesting. Celtic wasn't ofcourse wiped out by the Romans. Interestingly, a language called Breton is still spoken in Brittany in France. You might even understand them!

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By *ohnjones3210 OP   Man
1 week ago

Chester


"Oooh! I love this!

I think April might be Apollo. Romans renamed Aphrodite to Venus but I don’t think they renamed Apollo

🤓 "

Hi Miss Hants,

I've just researched it. The best source of information that I know of doesn't know the answer. The month name in Latin was "Aprilis".

It suggests;

Aphrodite (the goddess - but as you've said, that's actually a greek goddess' name - although the Etruscans called her 'Apru')

Aperilis (Latin word for next)

Aprerire (Latin word for open)

I suppose if it was Apollo, it would be Apollis.

Who knows... You could be right.

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By *ohnjones3210 OP   Man
1 week ago

Chester


"Just comment to come back to "

No worries Mr and Mrs Couple.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
1 week ago

Leeds

If March was the Roman first month, why is July the 5th month and all the others following numerically after that ? Why isn't July 4th month and December 9th month not 10th ?

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By *emorefridaCouple
1 week ago

La la land


"That's interesting thanks you.

In Welsh we have some latin influences too

Ionawr

Chwefror

Mawrth

Ebrill

Mai

Mehefin

Away

Medi

Hydref

Tachwedd

Rhagfyr

That's interesting. Celtic wasn't ofcourse wiped out by the Romans. Interestingly, a language called Breton is still spoken in Brittany in France. You might even understand them!"

I can just about understand the jist of Breton and Cornish if they speak it really really slowly. They're the same branch of Celtic languages

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By *ornishvikingMan
1 week ago

lala land


"That's interesting thanks you.

In Welsh we have some latin influences too

Ionawr

Chwefror

Mawrth

Ebrill

Mai

Mehefin

Away

Medi

Hydref

Tachwedd

Rhagfyr

That's interesting. Celtic wasn't ofcourse wiped out by the Romans. Interestingly, a language called Breton is still spoken in Brittany in France. You might even understand them!

I can just about understand the jist of Breton and Cornish if they speak it really really slowly. They're the same branch of Celtic languages "

Interestingly cornwall and Wales were at one point one tribe on my trips to Wales can often understand a few similarities between Welsh and cornish

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By *orcsmatMan
1 week ago

Kidderminster

You've left out the oddity of our last four months are out of phase. E.G. September is the ninth month not the seventh.

This, as you are probably aware is because July and August were inserted where they are (summer) and the original names retained in the Julian calendar.

The were riots when the Gregorian calendar (which we use now) was introduced as the days were going out of sync and several days were cut out.

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By *ohnjones3210 OP   Man
1 week ago

Chester


"If March was the Roman first month, why is July the 5th month and all the others following numerically after that ? Why isn't July 4th month and December 9th month not 10th ?"

Hello Miss Slinky,

Do you mean why isn't December in the 12th place rather than 10th? Why aren't they in sync with our numbering?

It's because the ancient Roman calendar started the year based on when agriculture and stuff could happen. Stuff would start to grow, and stuff would warm up in March. You could restart the year, if that makes sense.

There may have been some other complication too like January and February were considered as dormant or something like that.

X

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By *ohnjones3210 OP   Man
1 week ago

Chester


"That's interesting thanks you.

In Welsh we have some latin influences too

Ionawr

Chwefror

Mawrth

Ebrill

Mai

Mehefin

Away

Medi

Hydref

Tachwedd

Rhagfyr

That's interesting. Celtic wasn't ofcourse wiped out by the Romans. Interestingly, a language called Breton is still spoken in Brittany in France. You might even understand them!

I can just about understand the jist of Breton and Cornish if they speak it really really slowly. They're the same branch of Celtic languages "

That's interesting Mr and Mrs Freda.

So, basically what happened is that when the Romans came, the Celtic people were pushed out of east Anglia. They were pushed north, west and south.

Apparently, this is why there are Celts in Brittany who speak Breton.

That being said, Europe was Celtic before the Romans anyway, but like you've suggested, that would have lead to many different "branches".

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By *ohnjones3210 OP   Man
1 week ago

Chester


"That's interesting thanks you.

In Welsh we have some latin influences too

Ionawr

Chwefror

Mawrth

Ebrill

Mai

Mehefin

Away

Medi

Hydref

Tachwedd

Rhagfyr

That's interesting. Celtic wasn't ofcourse wiped out by the Romans. Interestingly, a language called Breton is still spoken in Brittany in France. You might even understand them!

I can just about understand the jist of Breton and Cornish if they speak it really really slowly. They're the same branch of Celtic languages

Interestingly cornwall and Wales were at one point one tribe on my trips to Wales can often understand a few similarities between Welsh and cornish "

Yes. It's fascinating isn't it!

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By *ohnjones3210 OP   Man
1 week ago

Chester


"You've left out the oddity of our last four months are out of phase. E.G. September is the ninth month not the seventh.

This, as you are probably aware is because July and August were inserted where they are (summer) and the original names retained in the Julian calendar.

The were riots when the Gregorian calendar (which we use now) was introduced as the days were going out of sync and several days were cut out. "

Wasn't it January and February that were added in?

I think Jul/Aug just had name changes.

I could be wrong though.

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By *osey WalesMan
1 week ago

Surrey

Eanáir

Feabhra

Máirseáil

Aibreán

Féadfaidh

Meitheamh

lúil

Lúnasa

Meán Fómhair

Deireadh Fómhair

Samhain

Nollaig

Months of the year in Irish

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By *agnar73Man
1 week ago

glasgow-ish

Ooh I’ll reread. Interesting post OP

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By *ohnjones3210 OP   Man
1 week ago

Chester

The next thread is here:

https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/1654132

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