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That's not normal behaviour!

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By *ools and the brain OP   Couple
8 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.

This country/society seems to have slipped into a culture of accepting antisocial and aggressive behaviour as normal.

Due to cultural changes maybe people always defending the culprit and culture before the victims.

Cut's in frontline policing unless the situation benefits the powers that be to score brownie points.

What I am referring to are basic observations and personal experience from myself and others plus daily news stories.

Shop workers attacked, emergency service staff attacked daily, teacher subject to daily abuse and attacks, train staff,bus staff, social services staff crikey the list is endless and this is not including random attacks on normal law abiding people for no other reason than "they can"

This doesn't seem to be an issue that is

Financially driven or regional or race, religion or based in big cities only, it's definitely a national crisis across all sections of society regardless of where you live.

It seems that law and order is almost a pipe dream now.

It's not normal behaviour but sadly it seems that it's become acceptable for people to act pretty much how they want and subject people who are just trying to live to any level of abuse without fear of the consequences.

We can all pretend that it's isolated incidents but I'm pretty sure anyone working in the areas of employment I mentioned all have stories and many more, we probably all have personal stories of such issues .

Please what can we do what's the solution?

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By *929Man
8 weeks ago

newcastle

Society is going to shit mate

Police cuts are largely to blame they just not interested any more so people know they can get away with almost anything and don’t give a fuck

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By *ools and the brain OP   Couple
8 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.


"Society is going to shit mate

Police cuts are largely to blame they just not interested any more so people know they can get away with almost anything and don’t give a fuck "

I don't just think it's police cuts but the way the system is tied up with red tape and people making lots of money defending criminals resulting in it being so difficult to get a conviction most cases don't even get to court.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
8 weeks ago

BRIDPORT


"Society is going to shit mate

Police cuts are largely to blame they just not interested any more so people know they can get away with almost anything and don’t give a fuck "

But the underlying attitude doesn’t come from lack of policing, it comes from individuals own moral compass, the attitude that ‘ I can get away with it without getting caught and being subjected to the consequences, so I’ll do it ‘, merely demonstrates that individuals lack of societal responsibility.

Seeking to use external factors to explain individuals lack of responsibility and personal accountability is a large part of the problem.

In my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
8 weeks ago

Since covid and lock down society seems to be permanently angry nowadays,things have definitely deteriorated since then.

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By *a LunaWoman
8 weeks ago

South Wales

I don’t know the solution. But it’ll have to be multi faceted.

As an aside, I was watching telly with my mum yesterday, it was a 1957 documentary on Covent Garden Market. They showed an early morning view of High Street shops. Not one shutter on a shop front. Big glass shopfronts and a light on in the window to show off the display.

First thing I noticed!

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By *ools and the brain OP   Couple
8 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.


"Society is going to shit mate

Police cuts are largely to blame they just not interested any more so people know they can get away with almost anything and don’t give a fuck

But the underlying attitude doesn’t come from lack of policing, it comes from individuals own moral compass, the attitude that ‘ I can get away with it without getting caught and being subjected to the consequences, so I’ll do it ‘, merely demonstrates that individuals lack of societal responsibility.

Seeking to use external factors to explain individuals lack of responsibility and personal accountability is a large part of the problem.

In my opinion. "

True, it's the seemingly lack of consequences and the anti establishment stance that many have adopted since lockdown.

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By (user no longer on site)
8 weeks ago

It's not even criminal behaviour. It's a general lack of respect for everything around. I work nights so see streets streaming with rubbish, vomit and broken glass. The night bus is filled with left over take away packaging and drink cans/bottles. There seems to be a lack of pride in the environment, like people are content to live in shit. As a grown adult I cannot remember ever purposely dropping litter on the floor.

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By *teveAndHisMagicPicklenicMan
8 weeks ago

Ends

Give the police the powers to act without being held to account.

Kidding.

I don’t know the solution but these are global issues. So nobody has figured it out.

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By *ools and the brain OP   Couple
8 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.


"I don’t know the solution. But it’ll have to be multi faceted.

As an aside, I was watching telly with my mum yesterday, it was a 1957 documentary on Covent Garden Market. They showed an early morning view of High Street shops. Not one shutter on a shop front. Big glass shopfronts and a light on in the window to show off the display.

First thing I noticed!"

That's a very valid point,the lack of community spirit and integration with others has created a disconnect.

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By *929Man
8 weeks ago

newcastle


"Society is going to shit mate

Police cuts are largely to blame they just not interested any more so people know they can get away with almost anything and don’t give a fuck

But the underlying attitude doesn’t come from lack of policing, it comes from individuals own moral compass, the attitude that ‘ I can get away with it without getting caught and being subjected to the consequences, so I’ll do it ‘, merely demonstrates that individuals lack of societal responsibility.

Seeking to use external factors to explain individuals lack of responsibility and personal accountability is a large part of the problem.

In my opinion. "

True mate that’s a great point

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By *teveAndHisMagicPicklenicMan
8 weeks ago

Ends

I think in a world where we expect our human rights to be respected, it naturally makes it more difficult to ‘enforce’ in the way people want or the ways that things have historically been done. But I think it’s important to remember that things have always been bad for some groups in different ways.

The issue here is you are trying to have a conversation about control. How do we control people? How do we control their behaviour. I don’t mean it in the sense that people may read it- as brainwashing etc. but things like police are agents of social control. They are enforcers or control. Controlling people isn’t easy and as I say, especially not in a world that values the individual human rights of people. Any solution, in my opinion doesn’t make the world better or safer for *everyone*. We don’t actually know if it even makes it safer for more people.

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By *teveAndHisMagicPicklenicMan
8 weeks ago

Ends

Also - I mean there’s also arguments about the role of capitalism in criminality and deviance.

Maybe a room of criminologists could help us out. But it’s an ology so I dunno if we trust them?

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By *rHotNottsMan
8 weeks ago

Dubai & Nottingham


"This country/society seems to have slipped into a culture of accepting antisocial and aggressive behaviour as normal.

Due to cultural changes maybe people always defending the culprit and culture before the victims.

Cut's in frontline policing unless the situation benefits the powers that be to score brownie points.

What I am referring to are basic observations and personal experience from myself and others plus daily news stories.

Shop workers attacked, emergency service staff attacked daily, teacher subject to daily abuse and attacks, train staff,bus staff, social services staff crikey the list is endless and this is not including random attacks on normal law abiding people for no other reason than "they can"

This doesn't seem to be an issue that is

Financially driven or regional or race, religion or based in big cities only, it's definitely a national crisis across all sections of society regardless of where you live.

It seems that law and order is almost a pipe dream now.

It's not normal behaviour but sadly it seems that it's become acceptable for people to act pretty much how they want and subject people who are just trying to live to any level of abuse without fear of the consequences.

We can all pretend that it's isolated incidents but I'm pretty sure anyone working in the areas of employment I mentioned all have stories and many more, we probably all have personal stories of such issues .

Please what can we do what's the solution?"

It’s all downhill once you stop focussing on the really minor stuff. Good schools know this and is why they are ultra strict on things like uniform and lateness , the ones that do see far less crime & bigger problems. The standard is set high.

When society says it fine for kids to stink of vveed and vape, this is where you end up

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple
8 weeks ago

Leeds

It seems to vary by area, I'm lucky I'm not in an area that has these issues.

Mrs

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
8 weeks ago

BRIDPORT


"I think in a world where we expect our human rights to be respected, it naturally makes it more difficult to ‘enforce’ in the way people want or the ways that things have historically been done. But I think it’s important to remember that things have always been bad for some groups in different ways.

The issue here is you are trying to have a conversation about control. How do we control people? How do we control their behaviour. I don’t mean it in the sense that people may read it- as brainwashing etc. but things like police are agents of social control. They are enforcers or control. Controlling people isn’t easy and as I say, especially not in a world that values the individual human rights of people. Any solution, in my opinion doesn’t make the world better or safer for *everyone*. We don’t actually know if it even makes it safer for more people. "

Why are we (you), looking for others to control behaviour, we are responsible for controlling our own behaviour, we are responsible for our actions towards other people and it’s us, as individuals, who have the obligation to behave in a way that is accepted by the society we live in.

When personal standards decline it has a ripple affect, and society standards decline, this becomes a self fuelling decline.

It begins with and ends with, personal responsibility.

If we want Human Rights they don’t come without Human Responsibilities

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By *electableicecreamMan
8 weeks ago

The West

Entire generations are disillusioned and disenfranchised. It's no suprise really.

Modern media has monetised the social divide and politicians have weaponised it.

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By *innietheMinx2Woman
8 weeks ago

Grampian

The courts are not fit for purpose. If they can avoid proceeding with a criminal case then they absolutely will not proceed with it. Why should it take 2 years for a case to come to court? The police are often left to carry the can for the courts many failings. And, if by some chance there are consequences for someone committing a crime, there is very little, if any, real and proper punishment, leaving victims let down and often the victim blames the police because 'nothing' happened to the perpetrator. Prisons instructed to let people out early because its too expensive to have a convicted criminal actually carry out the rarely given sentence imposed by a court. It all comes down to money. Absolutely every aspect of life be it health, justice, housing and our governments are a joke.

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By *oodmessMan
8 weeks ago

yumsville

It's strange, as what I consider anti-social behaviour isn't the same as what Police consider. Police have a different measure and refer you to local authorities (the Council), as they also deal with anti-social behaviour. There's a real overlap in who deals with what and as result what kind of response is generated.

It might be a knock on the door, simply logging it, emailing to a different department or some kind of eviction process. The things you describe OP seem to be crimes, i.e, disorder or violence. Antisocial behaviour covers anything from fly-tipping and dog littering, to graffiti, dr*gs, or excessive noise linked to dr*g dealing. I looked at my councils site a few months ago, they deal with 13 areas of anti-social behaviour, the Police do the rest though often try to down play and refer it back as a local issue.

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By *ermite12ukMan
8 weeks ago

Solihull and Brentwood

Kids these days:

"Shut up mom."

Mom shuts up.

Me back in the day:

"Shut up mom."

Me: "Wh-where am I?"

Doctor: "The hospital." "It's taken us 6 hours to remove this shoe from your ass."

More seriously imho: Kids need to learn, that there are consequences in life. Stripping away all the consequences. Have instigated an 'I'm untouchable' aura around Kids that now think they can get away with anything. Jmho. But what do I know.

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By *teveAndHisMagicPicklenicMan
8 weeks ago

Ends


"I think in a world where we expect our human rights to be respected, it naturally makes it more difficult to ‘enforce’ in the way people want or the ways that things have historically been done. But I think it’s important to remember that things have always been bad for some groups in different ways.

The issue here is you are trying to have a conversation about control. How do we control people? How do we control their behaviour. I don’t mean it in the sense that people may read it- as brainwashing etc. but things like police are agents of social control. They are enforcers or control. Controlling people isn’t easy and as I say, especially not in a world that values the individual human rights of people. Any solution, in my opinion doesn’t make the world better or safer for *everyone*. We don’t actually know if it even makes it safer for more people.

Why are we (you), looking for others to control behaviour, we are responsible for controlling our own behaviour, we are responsible for our actions towards other people and it’s us, as individuals, who have the obligation to behave in a way that is accepted by the society we live in.

When personal standards decline it has a ripple affect, and society standards decline, this becomes a self fuelling decline.

It begins with and ends with, personal responsibility.

If we want Human Rights they don’t come without Human Responsibilities "

I am not advocating in any way here for people to be controlled.

My personal opinion is that if you want people to behave well and to a certain standard it has to do with a collective buy in to society and its values. I PERSONALLY think it requires a more equal society and I PERSONALLY think it requires a society with less strain from things like capitalism, racism etc.

I said we are having a conversation about control because in a modern society, conversations like this end up inevitably about how we can stop people acting in certain ways and it almost always involves conversation about controlling bad behaviour and how we punish those that exhibit it.

So in the world that we currently live in, do I see things getting to what people want? No. Unless you want, as has been suggested, more control over people, more ‘law and order’ and things like that. Like I said, the idea we act in accordance to the standards of behaviour of society requires us to believe in society. I think I read something about a Durkheim theory on this but yeah.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
8 weeks ago

East Sussex

People are too busy 'minding their own business' or filming other people's for likes.

There's a huge mismatch in what a lot of people expect and what they can actually achieve which results in some becoming angry because they believe 'others' (and that ranges from immigrants to benefits claimants) are stopping them from getting what they believe is rightfully theirs. This isn't helped by the divisive politics we're experiencing recently

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By *ekked JackMan
8 weeks ago

South Lanarkshire

IMO it seems we all want our rights to be upheld but not so keen on doing our part by realising that with rights there are responsibilities. Accepting responsibility for our actions appears to be something we don't want to do, or maybe it's better said that the systems in place mean we don't have to. It's interesting to note thay a few years ago the UNCFRC took out the word responsibilities from their articles on the rights of the child and schools were told not to teach these. So where it says tat all children have a right to an education it didn't on to say that children have a responsibility to ensure their behavior doesn't impinge ot affect another child's right to an education. When you take way personal responsibility then you breed the narcissistic society which we are living in now. Whays the solution? Fuck knows...

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By *host63Man
8 weeks ago

Bedfont Feltham

I find it's also police indifference too.

I come into contact with the police in my job and report things and all they do is shrug and treat you as a nuisance. Only to come to you three weeks later after the thing you reported turns into a major incident.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
8 weeks ago

East Sussex

[Removed by poster at 06/10/24 10:42:43]

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
8 weeks ago

East Sussex

Also. For goodness sake make housing affordable!

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By *teveAndHisMagicPicklenicMan
8 weeks ago

Ends


"Also. For goodness sake make housing affordable!"

God you’re so hot.

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By (user no longer on site)
8 weeks ago

I think this has been developing over decades. The public/we have been continuously fed this message of individualism: you can have what you want when you want, everything can or will be tailored to your every whim. When that can’t happen because of resources or other factors some people just can’t handle it. Add toxic victimisation politics from the right, global changes in demographics and every type of social media stirring the pot and you’ve got trouble. It’s not just here, just look across the pond for the politics of grievance on steroids.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
8 weeks ago

BRIDPORT


"I think in a world where we expect our human rights to be respected, it naturally makes it more difficult to ‘enforce’ in the way people want or the ways that things have historically been done. But I think it’s important to remember that things have always been bad for some groups in different ways.

The issue here is you are trying to have a conversation about control. How do we control people? How do we control their behaviour. I don’t mean it in the sense that people may read it- as brainwashing etc. but things like police are agents of social control. They are enforcers or control. Controlling people isn’t easy and as I say, especially not in a world that values the individual human rights of people. Any solution, in my opinion doesn’t make the world better or safer for *everyone*. We don’t actually know if it even makes it safer for more people.

Why are we (you), looking for others to control behaviour, we are responsible for controlling our own behaviour, we are responsible for our actions towards other people and it’s us, as individuals, who have the obligation to behave in a way that is accepted by the society we live in.

When personal standards decline it has a ripple affect, and society standards decline, this becomes a self fuelling decline.

It begins with and ends with, personal responsibility.

If we want Human Rights they don’t come without Human Responsibilities

I am not advocating in any way here for people to be controlled.

My personal opinion is that if you want people to behave well and to a certain standard it has to do with a collective buy in to society and its values. I PERSONALLY think it requires a more equal society and I PERSONALLY think it requires a society with less strain from things like capitalism, racism etc.

I said we are having a conversation about control because in a modern society, conversations like this end up inevitably about how we can stop people acting in certain ways and it almost always involves conversation about controlling bad behaviour and how we punish those that exhibit it.

So in the world that we currently live in, do I see things getting to what people want? No. Unless you want, as has been suggested, more control over people, more ‘law and order’ and things like that. Like I said, the idea we act in accordance to the standards of behaviour of society requires us to believe in society. I think I read something about a Durkheim theory on this but yeah. "

If I read you wrong on the ‘control’ aspect MrPickle, that’s me at fault and should read more carefully.

I do still maintain the overall view that individuals are accountable and the onus is us as individuals.

It is the attitudes and actions of individuals that determines the path a society takes.

Once we think accountability rests with others it opens the way for people to ‘get away with’ whatever they feel they can.

Without wanting to get this thread moved to another place, I think a glaring example of this can be found in the recent and current politics of this country.

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By *elix SightedMan
8 weeks ago

Cloud 8

Whilst I do agree society at large is lowering its own standards decade by decade, let’s not forget the impact of technology.

50 years ago it would have been extremely rare for a BBC outside broadcast unit to be sent to anything other than headline national/international stories. Now they’re reporting on Betty who’s 108 and still a lollipop lady (I checked, she’s not on fab and lying about her age).

32 years ago there was no such thing as the internet, smart phones or social media. The presence and prevalence of these things means we can all keep pace with, and comment on, everything that’s going on in every corner of the world including the history, context and impact. And with mainly negative stories perpetuated, that means our consciousness is filled with the swirl of society in the toilet.

I do agree things are getting worse, but I also think it feels worse than it might actually be.

As a footnote, the population of the uk has increased by 12 million in the last 40 years. In the world it has increased by 3.6 billion. We’re all living closer to someone else and that person has a high chance of being a dick.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
8 weeks ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Every generation seems to believe that the country is going to the dogs.

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By *n at the DeeP endCouple
8 weeks ago

Manchester


"Since covid and lock down society seems to be permanently angry nowadays,things have definitely deteriorated since then."

Also noticed this since the lockdowns. Society looked like it was going to shit anyway for a number of reasons but there seems to have been a rapid acceleration since the lockdowns. Did this period of time in isolation drive people mad?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
8 weeks ago

East Sussex


"Every generation seems to believe that the country is going to the dogs."

You're right. My dad firmly believes the internet is making people idiots ...

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By *ellhungvweMan
8 weeks ago

Cheltenham

We are the society that we are all talking about here. If we want things to change then we need to step in and change them.

If you see anti social behaviour - call it out. Too many people will respond with “oh I can’t step I because it is dangerous” or “I don’t want the abuse.”

I understand that but it lets the behaviours that none of us want get hold. I step in if things are getting out of hand. Does my height and the fact I am male help? Yes. But the actions also helps embolden others to step in as well. Pretty much every time I have stepped in someone has also backed me up. People will help if they think they are not alone.

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By *arla SwingerWoman
8 weeks ago

Somewhere

Everywhere seems to have security guards now, even the train station Greggs outlet I noticed the other day. I think they're less to do with worrying someone might nick a pasty, than ensuring the staff don't get abused.

Some people just seem to think they can talk to anyone like absolute shit, and it's their right to do so

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By *ucka39Man
8 weeks ago

Newcastle

The same system that's supposed to provide a service, has been proven that's it's unfit and doesn't care as much as it's supposed to, by following it's own rules and regulations

So create a problem and creating casualties

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By *ondiego85Man
8 weeks ago

nottingham

First, people need to get a grip and stop being angry at each other. They need to accept that there is responsibility for their actions, and that this extends to what they write on social media.

Second, we need to work very hard on the next generation in the hope that they will be better than us

Third, we need to stop defunding police: they are so stretched that some crimes are basically never investigate properly (including burglaries), fuelling the impression that people can get away with most crimes or antisocial behaviour.

Fourth: prosecutors need to get a grip too. Ideally the recent results in prosecuting and jailing quickly the people with responsibility in the recent disorders shall be the norm

Fifth: social media need to have responsibility for what they publish. This is the only way, IMHO, to reduce the massive amount of hate, antisemitism, racism, Islamophobia, sexism which is allowed daily (and not moderated at all) in the social media platforms.

Sixth: we need to ask more from our politicians, in terms of setting an example. A few years ago, a politician doing all that BJ did in his time in power would have been inconceivable, but he managed to surround himself with morally bankrupt people like him because people voted them. Bad politician (either because incompetent or because morally bankrupt, if not frankly racist like nigel frog face) need to be voted out.

Of all these points, I think the last is the most difficult. We need to stop treating politics like football, it’s not my team versus yours.

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By *elix SightedMan
8 weeks ago

Cloud 8


"Everywhere seems to have security guards now, even the train station Greggs outlet I noticed the other day. I think they're less to do with worrying someone might nick a pasty, than ensuring the staff don't get abused.

Some people just seem to think they can talk to anyone like absolute shit, and it's their right to do so "

It’s such a shame that Sainsbury’s till staff now have to wear body cams. How has that become necessary?!

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
8 weeks ago

Central

We've had a very long period where those with power openly abused it, to the detriment of the masses, which has helped to fuel the degradation of society. People have been left often with little hope, the cost of living soaring and inflaming stresses and strains. Safety nets unravelled on purpose, whilst the very wealthy gained £millioms, from the pressures making people poorer.

You can't have chronic fear stress and other ills, whilst people know they are viewed and treated with contempt, without substantial breakdowns in civil order.

It's up to each of us to make the society that we want. We can show intolerance for actions that we abhor and foster those that are right.

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By (user no longer on site)
8 weeks ago

Lack of respect for people. Who’s to blame? Parents? Lack of education? Probably all of these. We saw in the recent riots the Police being openly targeted. I was brought up to respect the Police. Now, it’s open season to behave how you want to.

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By *n at the DeeP endCouple
8 weeks ago

Manchester


"Every generation seems to believe that the country is going to the dogs.

You're right. My dad firmly believes the internet is making people idiots ..."

Certain aspects of it are making alot of people idiots. On the other side, it makes alot of people the opposite.

Perhaps as a result, the gap between idiots and the rest of us is widening and they now stand out more...

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By *enelope2UWoman
8 weeks ago

Fife

Kids having kids and parents lacking parental abilities because breeding is beneficial over responsible relationships

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By *n at the DeeP endCouple
8 weeks ago

Manchester


"Some people just seem to think they can talk to anyone like absolute shit, and it's their right to do so "

It absolutely IS their right. They just shouldn't be surprised when someone slaps the taste out of their mouth.

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By *ellinever70Woman
8 weeks ago

Ayrshire

I think an awful lot of people are fed up and frustrated at what they perceive as diminishing opportunities in life and that manifests as anger but it's directed at the wrong people

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By *cottish guy 555Man
8 weeks ago

London


"Everywhere seems to have security guards now, even the train station Greggs outlet I noticed the other day. I think they're less to do with worrying someone might nick a pasty, than ensuring the staff don't get abused.

Some people just seem to think they can talk to anyone like absolute shit, and it's their right to do so

It’s such a shame that Sainsbury’s till staff now have to wear body cams. How has that become necessary?!"

Especially when Bill Gates is already tracking everyone.

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By *ormalfornorfolkMan
8 weeks ago

Norwich

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread. Some thought provoking and nuanced arguments. I have been guilty of being a dickhead myself on occasions, not regularly or often but sometimes when the planets have all aligned inauspiciously, as I suspect many others have. I think we all have to check our entitlement from time to time. I did however wind my window down and say thank you to the lady who was directing traffic at our local tip this morning amongst beeping horns and general anger and impatience from many drivers, she seemed to appreciate it.

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By *hrista BellendWoman
8 weeks ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

It boils down to money. Parents at home getting high, trying to block out whatever is wrong in their lives and they let their kids run riot in the street. Schools can't afford to intervene, social services have no money to help, peer guidance is from kids ruling kids, with zero structure. Personally I'd send all that get sentenced to juvie, to a special educational needs facility till they are 18, so they can receive some guidance and education. Something Juvie is seriously lacking

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By *hillenCouple
8 weeks ago

Borehamwood

I think social media has something to do with it. As that great philosopher, Mike Tyson observed 'social media means people can disrespect others without getting punched in the face'.

Perhaps this sense of entitlement gets carried over to the outside world.

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By *929Man
8 weeks ago

newcastle


"I think social media has something to do with it. As that great philosopher, Mike Tyson observed 'social media means people can disrespect others without getting punched in the face'.

Perhaps this sense of entitlement gets carried over to the outside world. "

This is true and sad thing is punching someone in the face is one of the few things the police actually bother to come out for these days regardless of what that person did to deserve it

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By *ed and WolfieCouple
8 weeks ago

Gravesend

Society seems to have forgotten the simple theory of treat others how you wish them to treat you. It's so simple.

I also think that people struggle to dissociate virtual life from real life, and can't comprehend that the real world is not the perfect air brushed and polished lifestyle full of luxuries and instant gratification that they strive for on instatok or whatever it's called.

People need to take responsibility of what they can control or influence. Their own life and behaviours, which in turn affects their children and others, and stop blaming everyone else for shortcomings and problems.

You can blame politicians, the police, your neighbours, your bank balance, your race or religion. But sometimes we should all look at ourselves and the decisions we make.

Can we stop social media? No.

Can we stop religion? No

Can we stop capitalism? No

Can we stop ourselves being offensive or angry or arseholes? Yes.

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By *iltsTSgirlTV/TS
8 weeks ago

chichester

Don’t worry the western world is currently rapidly shifting back to the right politically. So I woukd expect within next 5-10 years we will have some different ways of functioning again

Look at Europe how fast they are rushing towards it. UK is in a knife edge / USA is going to be the final hammer come November with which way it all goes.

Society has become very me me me but agree online / social media use in some areas has been catastrophic but the decline has been going long before the rise of twitter / facebook etc

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By *rHotNottsMan
8 weeks ago

Dubai & Nottingham


"I think in a world where we expect our human rights to be respected, it naturally makes it more difficult to ‘enforce’ in the way people want or the ways that things have historically been done. But I think it’s important to remember that things have always been bad for some groups in different ways.

The issue here is you are trying to have a conversation about control. How do we control people? How do we control their behaviour. I don’t mean it in the sense that people may read it- as brainwashing etc. but things like police are agents of social control. They are enforcers or control. Controlling people isn’t easy and as I say, especially not in a world that values the individual human rights of people. Any solution, in my opinion doesn’t make the world better or safer for *everyone*. We don’t actually know if it even makes it safer for more people.

Why are we (you), looking for others to control behaviour, we are responsible for controlling our own behaviour, we are responsible for our actions towards other people and it’s us, as individuals, who have the obligation to behave in a way that is accepted by the society we live in.

When personal standards decline it has a ripple affect, and society standards decline, this becomes a self fuelling decline.

It begins with and ends with, personal responsibility.

If we want Human Rights they don’t come without Human Responsibilities

I am not advocating in any way here for people to be controlled.

My personal opinion is that if you want people to behave well and to a certain standard it has to do with a collective buy in to society and its values. I PERSONALLY think it requires a more equal society and I PERSONALLY think it requires a society with less strain from things like capitalism, racism etc.

I said we are having a conversation about control because in a modern society, conversations like this end up inevitably about how we can stop people acting in certain ways and it almost always involves conversation about controlling bad behaviour and how we punish those that exhibit it.

So in the world that we currently live in, do I see things getting to what people want? No. Unless you want, as has been suggested, more control over people, more ‘law and order’ and things like that. Like I said, the idea we act in accordance to the standards of behaviour of society requires us to believe in society. I think I read something about a Durkheim theory on this but yeah.

If I read you wrong on the ‘control’ aspect MrPickle, that’s me at fault and should read more carefully.

I do still maintain the overall view that individuals are accountable and the onus is us as individuals.

It is the attitudes and actions of individuals that determines the path a society takes.

Once we think accountability rests with others it opens the way for people to ‘get away with’ whatever they feel they can.

Without wanting to get this thread moved to another place, I think a glaring example of this can be found in the recent and current politics of this country. "

Without strong leadership you get the lowest common denominator approach. Dubai isn’t clean and crime free because of individuals , we come from the highest crime and deprivation areas of UK,, Lagos , Doula, Manilla and it’s not fear of the fines either, most are affordable. Having a dirty car, selfish lane change ,touching someone’s phone, eating or drinking on public transport, smoking in a non designated area, drinking alcohol in a public area, people are wiling to give up their rights for a zero crime , clean & safe place.

But you have to start by laying out the rules/expectations and enforcing them

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By *ools and the brain OP   Couple
8 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.


"I think in a world where we expect our human rights to be respected, it naturally makes it more difficult to ‘enforce’ in the way people want or the ways that things have historically been done. But I think it’s important to remember that things have always been bad for some groups in different ways.

The issue here is you are trying to have a conversation about control. How do we control people? How do we control their behaviour. I don’t mean it in the sense that people may read it- as brainwashing etc. but things like police are agents of social control. They are enforcers or control. Controlling people isn’t easy and as I say, especially not in a world that values the individual human rights of people. Any solution, in my opinion doesn’t make the world better or safer for *everyone*. We don’t actually know if it even makes it safer for more people.

Why are we (you), looking for others to control behaviour, we are responsible for controlling our own behaviour, we are responsible for our actions towards other people and it’s us, as individuals, who have the obligation to behave in a way that is accepted by the society we live in.

When personal standards decline it has a ripple affect, and society standards decline, this becomes a self fuelling decline.

It begins with and ends with, personal responsibility.

If we want Human Rights they don’t come without Human Responsibilities

I am not advocating in any way here for people to be controlled.

My personal opinion is that if you want people to behave well and to a certain standard it has to do with a collective buy in to society and its values. I PERSONALLY think it requires a more equal society and I PERSONALLY think it requires a society with less strain from things like capitalism, racism etc.

I said we are having a conversation about control because in a modern society, conversations like this end up inevitably about how we can stop people acting in certain ways and it almost always involves conversation about controlling bad behaviour and how we punish those that exhibit it.

So in the world that we currently live in, do I see things getting to what people want? No. Unless you want, as has been suggested, more control over people, more ‘law and order’ and things like that. Like I said, the idea we act in accordance to the standards of behaviour of society requires us to believe in society. I think I read something about a Durkheim theory on this but yeah.

If I read you wrong on the ‘control’ aspect MrPickle, that’s me at fault and should read more carefully.

I do still maintain the overall view that individuals are accountable and the onus is us as individuals.

It is the attitudes and actions of individuals that determines the path a society takes.

Once we think accountability rests with others it opens the way for people to ‘get away with’ whatever they feel they can.

Without wanting to get this thread moved to another place, I think a glaring example of this can be found in the recent and current politics of this country.

Without strong leadership you get the lowest common denominator approach. Dubai isn’t clean and crime free because of individuals , we come from the highest crime and deprivation areas of UK,, Lagos , Doula, Manilla and it’s not fear of the fines either, most are affordable. Having a dirty car, selfish lane change ,touching someone’s phone, eating or drinking on public transport, smoking in a non designated area, drinking alcohol in a public area, people are wiling to give up their rights for a zero crime , clean & safe place.

But you have to start by laying out the rules/expectations and enforcing them

"

I agree but the sense of entitlement that's rife in this country I doubt anyone has the ball's or the backing to make some very tough decisions.

Politics seems to be driven by the online social media platforms today and piss of the softly softly brigade and it's never going to happen.

There HAS to be a deterrent in place to deter antisocial and criminal behaviour otherwise it's just anarchy.

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By *teveAndHisMagicPicklenicMan
8 weeks ago

Ends


"I think in a world where we expect our human rights to be respected, it naturally makes it more difficult to ‘enforce’ in the way people want or the ways that things have historically been done. But I think it’s important to remember that things have always been bad for some groups in different ways.

The issue here is you are trying to have a conversation about control. How do we control people? How do we control their behaviour. I don’t mean it in the sense that people may read it- as brainwashing etc. but things like police are agents of social control. They are enforcers or control. Controlling people isn’t easy and as I say, especially not in a world that values the individual human rights of people. Any solution, in my opinion doesn’t make the world better or safer for *everyone*. We don’t actually know if it even makes it safer for more people.

Why are we (you), looking for others to control behaviour, we are responsible for controlling our own behaviour, we are responsible for our actions towards other people and it’s us, as individuals, who have the obligation to behave in a way that is accepted by the society we live in.

When personal standards decline it has a ripple affect, and society standards decline, this becomes a self fuelling decline.

It begins with and ends with, personal responsibility.

If we want Human Rights they don’t come without Human Responsibilities

I am not advocating in any way here for people to be controlled.

My personal opinion is that if you want people to behave well and to a certain standard it has to do with a collective buy in to society and its values. I PERSONALLY think it requires a more equal society and I PERSONALLY think it requires a society with less strain from things like capitalism, racism etc.

I said we are having a conversation about control because in a modern society, conversations like this end up inevitably about how we can stop people acting in certain ways and it almost always involves conversation about controlling bad behaviour and how we punish those that exhibit it.

So in the world that we currently live in, do I see things getting to what people want? No. Unless you want, as has been suggested, more control over people, more ‘law and order’ and things like that. Like I said, the idea we act in accordance to the standards of behaviour of society requires us to believe in society. I think I read something about a Durkheim theory on this but yeah.

If I read you wrong on the ‘control’ aspect MrPickle, that’s me at fault and should read more carefully.

I do still maintain the overall view that individuals are accountable and the onus is us as individuals.

It is the attitudes and actions of individuals that determines the path a society takes.

Once we think accountability rests with others it opens the way for people to ‘get away with’ whatever they feel they can.

Without wanting to get this thread moved to another place, I think a glaring example of this can be found in the recent and current politics of this country.

Without strong leadership you get the lowest common denominator approach. Dubai isn’t clean and crime free because of individuals , we come from the highest crime and deprivation areas of UK,, Lagos , Doula, Manilla and it’s not fear of the fines either, most are affordable. Having a dirty car, selfish lane change ,touching someone’s phone, eating or drinking on public transport, smoking in a non designated area, drinking alcohol in a public area, people are wiling to give up their rights for a zero crime , clean & safe place.

But you have to start by laying out the rules/expectations and enforcing them

I agree but the sense of entitlement that's rife in this country I doubt anyone has the ball's or the backing to make some very tough decisions.

Politics seems to be driven by the online social media platforms today and piss of the softly softly brigade and it's never going to happen.

There HAS to be a deterrent in place to deter antisocial and criminal behaviour otherwise it's just anarchy.

"

Anarchy in practice is actually way more peaceful and harmonious.

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By *ools and the brain OP   Couple
8 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.


"I think in a world where we expect our human rights to be respected, it naturally makes it more difficult to ‘enforce’ in the way people want or the ways that things have historically been done. But I think it’s important to remember that things have always been bad for some groups in different ways.

The issue here is you are trying to have a conversation about control. How do we control people? How do we control their behaviour. I don’t mean it in the sense that people may read it- as brainwashing etc. but things like police are agents of social control. They are enforcers or control. Controlling people isn’t easy and as I say, especially not in a world that values the individual human rights of people. Any solution, in my opinion doesn’t make the world better or safer for *everyone*. We don’t actually know if it even makes it safer for more people.

Why are we (you), looking for others to control behaviour, we are responsible for controlling our own behaviour, we are responsible for our actions towards other people and it’s us, as individuals, who have the obligation to behave in a way that is accepted by the society we live in.

When personal standards decline it has a ripple affect, and society standards decline, this becomes a self fuelling decline.

It begins with and ends with, personal responsibility.

If we want Human Rights they don’t come without Human Responsibilities

I am not advocating in any way here for people to be controlled.

My personal opinion is that if you want people to behave well and to a certain standard it has to do with a collective buy in to society and its values. I PERSONALLY think it requires a more equal society and I PERSONALLY think it requires a society with less strain from things like capitalism, racism etc.

I said we are having a conversation about control because in a modern society, conversations like this end up inevitably about how we can stop people acting in certain ways and it almost always involves conversation about controlling bad behaviour and how we punish those that exhibit it.

So in the world that we currently live in, do I see things getting to what people want? No. Unless you want, as has been suggested, more control over people, more ‘law and order’ and things like that. Like I said, the idea we act in accordance to the standards of behaviour of society requires us to believe in society. I think I read something about a Durkheim theory on this but yeah.

If I read you wrong on the ‘control’ aspect MrPickle, that’s me at fault and should read more carefully.

I do still maintain the overall view that individuals are accountable and the onus is us as individuals.

It is the attitudes and actions of individuals that determines the path a society takes.

Once we think accountability rests with others it opens the way for people to ‘get away with’ whatever they feel they can.

Without wanting to get this thread moved to another place, I think a glaring example of this can be found in the recent and current politics of this country.

Without strong leadership you get the lowest common denominator approach. Dubai isn’t clean and crime free because of individuals , we come from the highest crime and deprivation areas of UK,, Lagos , Doula, Manilla and it’s not fear of the fines either, most are affordable. Having a dirty car, selfish lane change ,touching someone’s phone, eating or drinking on public transport, smoking in a non designated area, drinking alcohol in a public area, people are wiling to give up their rights for a zero crime , clean & safe place.

But you have to start by laying out the rules/expectations and enforcing them

I agree but the sense of entitlement that's rife in this country I doubt anyone has the ball's or the backing to make some very tough decisions.

Politics seems to be driven by the online social media platforms today and piss of the softly softly brigade and it's never going to happen.

There HAS to be a deterrent in place to deter antisocial and criminal behaviour otherwise it's just anarchy.

Anarchy in practice is actually way more peaceful and harmonious. "

I'm sorry but that's absolute nonsense.

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By *teveAndHisMagicPicklenicMan
8 weeks ago

Ends


"I think in a world where we expect our human rights to be respected, it naturally makes it more difficult to ‘enforce’ in the way people want or the ways that things have historically been done. But I think it’s important to remember that things have always been bad for some groups in different ways.

The issue here is you are trying to have a conversation about control. How do we control people? How do we control their behaviour. I don’t mean it in the sense that people may read it- as brainwashing etc. but things like police are agents of social control. They are enforcers or control. Controlling people isn’t easy and as I say, especially not in a world that values the individual human rights of people. Any solution, in my opinion doesn’t make the world better or safer for *everyone*. We don’t actually know if it even makes it safer for more people.

Why are we (you), looking for others to control behaviour, we are responsible for controlling our own behaviour, we are responsible for our actions towards other people and it’s us, as individuals, who have the obligation to behave in a way that is accepted by the society we live in.

When personal standards decline it has a ripple affect, and society standards decline, this becomes a self fuelling decline.

It begins with and ends with, personal responsibility.

If we want Human Rights they don’t come without Human Responsibilities

I am not advocating in any way here for people to be controlled.

My personal opinion is that if you want people to behave well and to a certain standard it has to do with a collective buy in to society and its values. I PERSONALLY think it requires a more equal society and I PERSONALLY think it requires a society with less strain from things like capitalism, racism etc.

I said we are having a conversation about control because in a modern society, conversations like this end up inevitably about how we can stop people acting in certain ways and it almost always involves conversation about controlling bad behaviour and how we punish those that exhibit it.

So in the world that we currently live in, do I see things getting to what people want? No. Unless you want, as has been suggested, more control over people, more ‘law and order’ and things like that. Like I said, the idea we act in accordance to the standards of behaviour of society requires us to believe in society. I think I read something about a Durkheim theory on this but yeah.

If I read you wrong on the ‘control’ aspect MrPickle, that’s me at fault and should read more carefully.

I do still maintain the overall view that individuals are accountable and the onus is us as individuals.

It is the attitudes and actions of individuals that determines the path a society takes.

Once we think accountability rests with others it opens the way for people to ‘get away with’ whatever they feel they can.

Without wanting to get this thread moved to another place, I think a glaring example of this can be found in the recent and current politics of this country.

Without strong leadership you get the lowest common denominator approach. Dubai isn’t clean and crime free because of individuals , we come from the highest crime and deprivation areas of UK,, Lagos , Doula, Manilla and it’s not fear of the fines either, most are affordable. Having a dirty car, selfish lane change ,touching someone’s phone, eating or drinking on public transport, smoking in a non designated area, drinking alcohol in a public area, people are wiling to give up their rights for a zero crime , clean & safe place.

But you have to start by laying out the rules/expectations and enforcing them

I agree but the sense of entitlement that's rife in this country I doubt anyone has the ball's or the backing to make some very tough decisions.

Politics seems to be driven by the online social media platforms today and piss of the softly softly brigade and it's never going to happen.

There HAS to be a deterrent in place to deter antisocial and criminal behaviour otherwise it's just anarchy.

Anarchy in practice is actually way more peaceful and harmonious.

I'm sorry but that's absolute nonsense.

"
ok

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By *rucking-HellMan
8 weeks ago

Northampton


"Society seems to have forgotten the simple theory of treat others how you wish them to treat you. It's so simple. "

That logic doesn't quite work. I wish for strangers in the street to piss on me for instance. I'd probably be arrested if I treated others how I would like to be treated.

Maybe that's the problem. Maybe everybody is taking the logic of that idea too literally.

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