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"I have two memories one from very young, I was laying on the floor at my grandparents house and a huge animal walked across in front of me, I realise now it was their cat. I think I was between 12 and 18 months old. Then when I was two I was sitting one end of the pram and my baby brother the other in the kitchen at home and it tipped up, spilling me on the floor." Was your brother ok though ? 😀 | |||
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"I have two memories one from very young, I was laying on the floor at my grandparents house and a huge animal walked across in front of me, I realise now it was their cat. I think I was between 12 and 18 months old. Then when I was two I was sitting one end of the pram and my baby brother the other in the kitchen at home and it tipped up, spilling me on the floor. Was your brother ok though ? 😀"  yes I don't think he landed on the floor | |||
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"I have two memories one from very young, I was laying on the floor at my grandparents house and a huge animal walked across in front of me, I realise now it was their cat. I think I was between 12 and 18 months old. Then when I was two I was sitting one end of the pram and my baby brother the other in the kitchen at home and it tipped up, spilling me on the floor. Was your brother ok though ? 😀 yes I don't think he landed on the floor"Phew 👍 | |||
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"I have two memories one from very young, I was laying on the floor at my grandparents house and a huge animal walked across in front of me, I realise now it was their cat. I think I was between 12 and 18 months old. Then when I was two I was sitting one end of the pram and my baby brother the other in the kitchen at home and it tipped up, spilling me on the floor. Was your brother ok though ? 😀 yes I don't think he landed on the floor
Phew 👍"This was 65 years ago, he's over it | |||
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"I have two memories one from very young, I was laying on the floor at my grandparents house and a huge animal walked across in front of me, I realise now it was their cat. I think I was between 12 and 18 months old. Then when I was two I was sitting one end of the pram and my baby brother the other in the kitchen at home and it tipped up, spilling me on the floor. Was your brother ok though ? 😀 yes I don't think he landed on the floor
Phew 👍
This was 65 years ago, he's over it "And you went arse over tit 😀 | |||
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"Being with my grandmother and talking to my mother on the phone about why my mum was in hospital. I was four I also have an image in my mind's eye that only makes sense reconstructed after the fact - night vision from the first Gulf War. Again, about four. My felt sense of the image is "weird flashing lights"" Yes I remember seeing the first Gulf War on the TV, and we would have been almost exactly the same age  | |||
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"I can remember being perhaps four or five and a trolley being wheeled into the classroom to give us those little glass bottles of milk with the foil lid… and I remember being kept in at break time and looking out the window at the rain, whilst trying not to burn myself on the old cast iron radiators. " Our school had those radiators too giant antique looking things. Maybe they just looked so big due to being so young I don’t know | |||
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"I have two memories one from very young, I was laying on the floor at my grandparents house and a huge animal walked across in front of me, I realise now it was their cat. I think I was between 12 and 18 months old. Then when I was two I was sitting one end of the pram and my baby brother the other in the kitchen at home and it tipped up, spilling me on the floor. Was your brother ok though ? 😀 yes I don't think he landed on the floor
Phew 👍
This was 65 years ago, he's over it
And you went arse over tit 😀" | |||
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"...And for psychologists who study older adults, why would the brain hang on to storage of those ancient memories ? I mean, brain storage is valuable right ? And finite I assume" From a biological perspective, not a psychological one: the brain's capacity has been estimated to be in the region of 2.5 petabytes. However the interesting thing is in how it's used. You've probably heard that it's not like a computer disc, it's not 1s and 0s. Memory is actually stored in the connections between neurons, not the neurons themselves. As we get older and the brain gets 'full', connections get 're-used'. So effectively you have two memories stored in the 'same place'. This probably why people often confuse events from the past. E.g. you remember going somewhere, but think it was with George in a Civic, when it was actually with Fred in a Golf. To be honest, human memory is pretty poor really if you examine it. But we evolved on the African plains running own antelope. We didn't really need to remember which colour car we went to Scarborough in | |||
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"I can remember being perhaps four or five and a trolley being wheeled into the classroom to give us those little glass bottles of milk with the foil lid… and I remember being kept in at break time and looking out the window at the rain, whilst trying not to burn myself on the old cast iron radiators. Our school had those radiators too giant antique looking things. Maybe they just looked so big due to being so young I don’t know " They were huge weren’t they! Pretty sure I whacked my head off them once or twice lol | |||
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"Walking into a pub in the middle of the night in Kent I must have been very young maybe 3-4 I'd escaped the house but I can't remember how nor do I remember the long walk down the road through an alley down a long flight of stairs to a main road which I don't remember crossing either I just remember 2 steps onto the pavement and seeing a giant brown door so I went through it into a pub lol and everything was giant the bar stools where huge the bar itself was like 3 times the height of myself loads of giant people looking at me I don't remember any audio at all and then it fades out and I remember getting put in the back of a police car and the policeman in the passengers seat turned and extended a pack of candy cigarettes out to me he opened them and I took one and don't really remember anything after that. "Apart from the fact you woke up and your botty was sore. | |||
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"I remember my birth. I remember black and the shock of bright light and coldness, it was like being underwater....and blurry faces all looking at me and hearing voices which again sounded like I was underwater...It was noisy. And the window, I remember the window on the wall. I later learning I was born smiling and my Dad was singing that song 'she was born with a smile on her face' in the delivery room. A later memory I remember sitting in the pushchair and being wheeled out, god knows where we were going, I just remember watching the world as we went I can remember going to the seaside, I was in my Dad's arms as he was standing in the sea, a huge wave came and knocked us over...I just remember a huge slap and being wet. I remember laughing and wanting to do it again A bit older, my Nain having a new fandangled toastie maker and I remember sitting in the living room while her and Mum faffed with it, it made thr best cheese toasties though, tomato soup and a cheese toastie was a thing every time I went to Nain and Taids It's still my comfort food now "That's some seriously impressive recall ability. Thank you for sharing those lovely memories about your Nain and Taids (I've not heard those terms before), and of course the cheese toasties. | |||
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"...And for psychologists who study older adults, why would the brain hang on to storage of those ancient memories ? I mean, brain storage is valuable right ? And finite I assume From a biological perspective, not a psychological one: the brain's capacity has been estimated to be in the region of 2.5 petabytes. However the interesting thing is in how it's used. You've probably heard that it's not like a computer disc, it's not 1s and 0s. Memory is actually stored in the connections between neurons, not the neurons themselves. As we get older and the brain gets 'full', connections get 're-used'. So effectively you have two memories stored in the 'same place'. This probably why people often confuse events from the past. E.g. you remember going somewhere, but think it was with George in a Civic, when it was actually with Fred in a Golf. To be honest, human memory is pretty poor really if you examine it. But we evolved on the African plains running own antelope. We didn't really need to remember which colour car we went to Scarborough in "Thank you for some in-depth info which I found fascinating and thought-provoking. . So if "memory" is "stored" in the connections between neurons, eg, synapses, and not in a format we would understand (binary 1's and 0's), what format is it stored in then ? . And if that particular synpase is full, in whatever way, does a new memory have to "find space" elsewhere to be stored, which would seem logical, as if it could not we would stop learning altogether. . This is now in very deep neuroscience territory indeed ! Thank you for your contribution. | |||
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"I am not opening that box tonight lol" Very wise and sorry if any triggering was involved. | |||
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"I am not opening that box tonight lol Very wise and sorry if any triggering was involved. " Absolutely no need to apologise all love here   | |||
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"...And for psychologists who study older adults, why would the brain hang on to storage of those ancient memories ? I mean, brain storage is valuable right ? And finite I assume From a biological perspective, not a psychological one: the brain's capacity has been estimated to be in the region of 2.5 petabytes. However the interesting thing is in how it's used. You've probably heard that it's not like a computer disc, it's not 1s and 0s. Memory is actually stored in the connections between neurons, not the neurons themselves. As we get older and the brain gets 'full', connections get 're-used'. So effectively you have two memories stored in the 'same place'. This probably why people often confuse events from the past. E.g. you remember going somewhere, but think it was with George in a Civic, when it was actually with Fred in a Golf. To be honest, human memory is pretty poor really if you examine it. But we evolved on the African plains running own antelope. We didn't really need to remember which colour car we went to Scarborough in
Thank you for some in-depth info which I found fascinating and thought-provoking.
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So if "memory" is "stored" in the connections between neurons, eg, synapses, and not in a format we would understand (binary 1's and 0's), what format is it stored in then ?
.
And if that particular synpase is full, in whatever way, does a new memory have to "find space" elsewhere to be stored, which would seem logical, as if it could not we would stop learning altogether.
.
This is now in very deep neuroscience territory indeed ! Thank you for your contribution."A synapse is not something that can be filled. It's simply a junction between nerves. The "storage" capacity of the brain cannot be compared to digital data. References to petabyte equivalents are just for comparison, like telling us how many elephants' weight something is equivalent to, or how many houses talk something is. The things being measured are probably not elephants or houses. The brain's "storage" is in electrochemical form and honestly, we're not entirely sure how memories are stored, though we're making strides. Here's an interesting bit of research: Zheng J. et al. Neurons detect cognitive boundaries to structure episodic memories in humans. Nature Neuroscience. March 7, 2022 | |||
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"I can remember being perhaps four or five and a trolley being wheeled into the classroom to give us those little glass bottles of milk with the foil lid… and I remember being kept in at break time and looking out the window at the rain, whilst trying not to burn myself on the old cast iron radiators. Our school had those radiators too giant antique looking things. Maybe they just looked so big due to being so young I don’t know They were huge weren’t they! Pretty sure I whacked my head off them once or twice lol " I remember being in the first year at school and warming my feet up on the radiators in my classroom, but being told to stop else I'd get chilblains. I was just 5. I also remember sucking my thumb after using the modelling clay that was made from paper and having the threads stuck in my mouth. I also remember being on holiday when I was 4: I remember the cupboard doors in the apartment and going for fresh rolls in the morning, and trying to find my Dad when he'd disappeared snorkeling for hours and falling gover on the really dusty gravel. I also have vague memories of being at playgroup, so when I was 3 or 4. | |||
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"...And for psychologists who study older adults, why would the brain hang on to storage of those ancient memories ? I mean, brain storage is valuable right ? And finite I assume From a biological perspective, not a psychological one: the brain's capacity has been estimated to be in the region of 2.5 petabytes. However the interesting thing is in how it's used. You've probably heard that it's not like a computer disc, it's not 1s and 0s. Memory is actually stored in the connections between neurons, not the neurons themselves. As we get older and the brain gets 'full', connections get 're-used'. So effectively you have two memories stored in the 'same place'. This probably why people often confuse events from the past. E.g. you remember going somewhere, but think it was with George in a Civic, when it was actually with Fred in a Golf. To be honest, human memory is pretty poor really if you examine it. But we evolved on the African plains running own antelope. We didn't really need to remember which colour car we went to Scarborough in
Thank you for some in-depth info which I found fascinating and thought-provoking.
.
So if "memory" is "stored" in the connections between neurons, eg, synapses, and not in a format we would understand (binary 1's and 0's), what format is it stored in then ?
.
And if that particular synpase is full, in whatever way, does a new memory have to "find space" elsewhere to be stored, which would seem logical, as if it could not we would stop learning altogether.
.
This is now in very deep neuroscience territory indeed ! Thank you for your contribution.
A synapse is not something that can be filled. It's simply a junction between nerves. The "storage" capacity of the brain cannot be compared to digital data. References to petabyte equivalents are just for comparison, like telling us how many elephants' weight something is equivalent to, or how many houses talk something is. The things being measured are probably not elephants or houses.
The brain's "storage" is in electrochemical form and honestly, we're not entirely sure how memories are stored, though we're making strides.
Here's an interesting bit of research:
Zheng J. et al. Neurons detect cognitive boundaries to structure episodic memories in humans. Nature Neuroscience. March 7, 2022"Thank you for that reference. I'll be able to access it tomorrow when Mrs DS hops online to do her thing
Thank you as well for helping my understanding about synapses not storing anything, in the sense of memories at least.
They are manifestly stored "somewhere", and that is deeply intriguing. I am start to suspect that that "somewhere" is all over the place, and not just in the hippocampus, for example. The hippocampus just "executes" the command to go and retrieve the memories, does it not ? Much like a PC CPU goes to retrieve storage from a storage device ? | |||
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"My earliest memory backed up with a photo was at age of three being thrown into a swimming pool in Lancaster I remember still the fear but still here to tell the tale ( parents - this in my view is not a good idea ) The term sink or swim was very apt 😬" You had a parent that did that too, huh ? Mine let out the air of a rubber ring I wore when I swam. It slowly deflated over the course of an hour or so, after I had done several laps of a very large lake. When I noticed and panicked (I was only 9), my father said to me "That happened over an hour ago. You've been swimming fine without it". I did wonder why he accompanied me for a whole hour whilst I went round and round the lake. Flipping sneaky sausage. I forgave him but I understand how kids can have trust issues sometimes. | |||
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"My earliest memory backed up with a photo was at age of three being thrown into a swimming pool in Lancaster I remember still the fear but still here to tell the tale ( parents - this in my view is not a good idea ) The term sink or swim was very apt 😬 You had a parent that did that too, huh ? Mine let out the air of a rubber ring I wore when I swam. It slowly deflated over the course of an hour or so, after I had done several laps of a very large lake. When I noticed and panicked (I was only 9), my father said to me "That happened over an hour ago. You've been swimming fine without it". I did wonder why he accompanied me for a whole hour whilst I went round and round the lake. Flipping sneaky sausage. I forgave him but I understand how kids can have trust issues sometimes." Well done !! - 👍 | |||
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"I remember my birth. I remember black and the shock of bright light and coldness, it was like being underwater....and blurry faces all looking at me and hearing voices which again sounded like I was underwater...It was noisy. And the window, I remember the window on the wall. I later learning I was born smiling and my Dad was singing that song 'she was born with a smile on her face' in the delivery room. A later memory I remember sitting in the pushchair and being wheeled out, god knows where we were going, I just remember watching the world as we went I can remember going to the seaside, I was in my Dad's arms as he was standing in the sea, a huge wave came and knocked us over...I just remember a huge slap and being wet. I remember laughing and wanting to do it again A bit older, my Nain having a new fandangled toastie maker and I remember sitting in the living room while her and Mum faffed with it, it made thr best cheese toasties though, tomato soup and a cheese toastie was a thing every time I went to Nain and Taids It's still my comfort food now
That's some seriously impressive recall ability.
Thank you for sharing those lovely memories about your Nain and Taids (I've not heard those terms before), and of course the cheese toasties."Thank you. I remember lots of stuff as a baby, it's rare to remember events prior to the age of two so I'm very lucky Nain and Taid is Welsh for Nan and Grandad....I am Welsh speaking and my Nain would ignore me if I spoke to her in English | |||
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"Walking into a pub in the middle of the night in Kent I must have been very young maybe 3-4 I'd escaped the house but I can't remember how nor do I remember the long walk down the road through an alley down a long flight of stairs to a main road which I don't remember crossing either I just remember 2 steps onto the pavement and seeing a giant brown door so I went through it into a pub lol and everything was giant the bar stools where huge the bar itself was like 3 times the height of myself loads of giant people looking at me I don't remember any audio at all and then it fades out and I remember getting put in the back of a police car and the policeman in the passengers seat turned and extended a pack of candy cigarettes out to me he opened them and I took one and don't really remember anything after that.
Apart from the fact you woke up and your botty was sore."Hahaha quite possibly exactly that lol | |||
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"Being locked out of our maisonette and my 4 year old brother dropping / smashing the full milk bottle ... The smell /sensation of Hendon" Now what was the smell sensation of Hendon? Let me know and I will go over to see if it's changed! | |||
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"The Big Bang! "Uttering the words "let there be light" and it was so. The first day. I do not recall you being there Davina  | |||
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Mum had been working at the pub about 5 doors down the road, and Dad had gone to walk her home after her shift finished 😆 | |||
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"Finding a dead cat in the garage. " That’s awful … and traumatic | |||
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"The Big Bang!
Uttering the words "let there be light" and it was so. The first day.
I do not recall you being there Davina "No, I'm talking about that group sex I had that totally reset my world view... | |||
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"This is a really interesting thread. Would our first memories have a correlation to when we first learned to speak a language. Perhaps any memories before that wouldn’t be remembered as we wouldn’t have the linguistic train of thought to identify and recall them. Unless they were memorised as images and the language to update the memory happened later. My point is that we think in our native language, so before we’ve learned any language how would we recall a memory? Just for the record, these are just my rambled thoughts, not any biological expertise!" I'm not an expert either, but before acquiring language, babies can remember faces, songs and other stimuli. My dog can't talk either, but he can clearly remember some things. I'm also interested in the link between early memories and things we have been told, or reminded of by photos. Do we remember the event at age three, or do we remember being reminded of it when we were slightly older? | |||
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