FabSwingers.com forum: What do you...

By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
7 days ago

St Leonards

....think the last 5-ish days before the GE will feel like?

I don't mean in the obviously political sense (or I'd post this under "Politics").

I mean the vibe, the "geist", the general moods you're picking up on?

Tetchy, relaxed, holding breath, celebration, fear, ennui, apathy, lethargy, excitement etc.

Have you already noticed any particular vibes?

That's all.

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By *allandathleticMan
7 days ago

Asgard

It'll be tense and tetchy.

I couldn't care less. They all lie. They all sell tall tales.

I won't be voting.

Shit I won't even be in the country

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By *a LunaWoman
7 days ago

Wales

Apathy. Lethargy.

A feeling that not one political party is a better option than the other really, but that they’ll just have to do.

It’s pretty miserable.

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By *urry BlokeMan
7 days ago

I don't think a lot of people care

The amount of apathy out there these days simply stuns me

The apathy in this country is part of the reason we're in this mess

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By *oyoteUglyWoman
7 days ago

somewhere

I live in a quiet little village and someone has been spotted defacing some reform party posters.

I have my fingers crossed for an all out riot.

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By *restonguy1981Man
7 days ago

preston

Viva la revolution

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By *ulieAndBeefCouple
7 days ago

Manchester-ish

I've already done my postal vote. We're in a swing seat so it felt necessary. I pretty much avoid the news now so I'm hoping I can also avoid the vibes.

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By *reeSpiritElleWoman
7 days ago

Near the Beach

Where I live there's a mix of apathy and despair. Most are going with a tactical vote just to get the Tories out, but it won't change anything, anytime soon. And by that I mean years, decades even

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By *r John WickMan
7 days ago

The Continental

I’m picking nothing up.

Until you mentioned it, I’d forgot it was happening. I’m glad you reminded me though. Id have been getting up early to take Mini Wick to school otherwise.

I’m hugely indifferent and will just close my eyes and ears to the noise.

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By *ittlebirdWoman
7 days ago

The Big Smoke

No idea. Stopped watching the news after Donald Trump said it was safe to drink bleach

My life is soooo much better without news.

And I’ve already voted

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By *avinaTVTV/TS
7 days ago

Transsexual Transylvania

There's little excitement around here, despite the fact that it looks very likely that the local Lib Dem candidate may well oust the Tory. I think there's a sense of resignation generally, that whoever's in charge, things have an inertia, and they're unlikely to see much improvement. People seem apathetic, and there's a pervasive distrust of the political class.

Meanwhile, I've seen one Tory poster, up, and received one Tory flyer in my postbox; whereas there are Lib Dem "Winning here" placards everywhere, and I've had a steady stream of LD election material in the post.

I'm voting Green.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
7 days ago

little house on the praire

Couldn't care less about it. I'm not picking up any vibes. It's easy to ignore

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By *avinaTVTV/TS
7 days ago

Transsexual Transylvania

Amaaaandla!

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By *ansoffateMan
7 days ago

Sagittarius A

You could cut through the tension with a knife.

The passion simmering. Millions of politically informed and empowered citizens all ready to contribute to the future of the country by expressing their views through the democratic process.

I can barely contain my excitement at the prospect of a new leader to guide us into the utopian promised land of almond milk and sugar-free honey.

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By *kphooeyMan
7 days ago

Finchley

I look forward to feeling as happy as I did in 97, but given the constraints imposed by the last 14 years, I think change is unlikely.

I look forward to JRM, Truss, Claverley and Hint having their assessment whipped.

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By *ittlebirdWoman
7 days ago

The Big Smoke

"You could cut through the tension with a knife.

The passion simmering. Millions of politically informed and empowered citizens all ready to contribute to the future of the country by expressing their views through the democratic process.

I can barely contain my excitement at the prospect of a new leader to guide us into the utopian promised land of almond milk and sugar-free honey."

Have I got to get the hamsters and salad cream out again?

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By *kphooeyMan
7 days ago

Finchley

"I look forward to feeling as happy as I did in 97, but given the constraints imposed by the last 14 years, I think change is unlikely.

I look forward to JRM, Truss, Claverley and Hint*** having their assessment whipped.

Hunt not Hint, and spelt with a 'C'

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By *melia DominaTV/TS
7 days ago

Edinburgh (She/Her)

As an individual from sunny Scotland, I know my best option is not to be run by Westminster.

Nothing to do with party choice.

Just I know my vote would count for more in the long term and we'd have more of a chance if we ran our own country without the bank of mum and dad at Westminster holding the purse strings!!

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
7 days ago

Central

People have been ground down for many years. And the clueless PM forced - wrongly - 6 weeks of us being ground down by the election. There's discomfort and boredom around, with most people eager for it to end

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By *midnight-Woman
7 days ago

...

I've already voted... Will be consumed by work next week, so will be blissfully unaware

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By *igR93Man
7 days ago

Sarcasm City

Couldn’t give a shiny shite

A famous phrase from a well known tv show that’s still dear to my heart today

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
7 days ago

BRIDPORT

"Apathy. Lethargy.

A feeling that not one political party is a better option than the other really, but that they’ll just have to do.

It’s pretty miserable.

Pretty much sums it up I think, won’t actually be bothering with it this time.

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

2 days to go, so bumping.

I've noted how much apathy/distrust/cynicism there is - and think that's much more telling than statements of political/tribal allegiances.

There's a whole "civilisational decay epoch" narrative here - but I'll spare us all that

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By *ivemealadybonerWoman
4 days ago

somewhere

I don't think there is any vibes, few posts on the local FB pages but the one where someone smashed into a lamppost outside Specsavers (I shit you not) garnered more replies than any of the election ones put together

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By *lowupdollTV/TS
4 days ago

S. Herts

Haven’t been this excited since I discovered Bob. Skimmed milk that TASTES LIKE SEMI.

Witchcraft.

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By *ickshawedCouple
4 days ago

Wolverhampton

For me I'm nervous and excited. I'm worried the polls are wrong, but I'm really hoping they're right. Generally most people don't seem to care. We're the only ones on the road with a Vote *** in our window. I've seen very few others with any signs up. I'm not sure I'll sleep Thursday night as I'll be watching the results come in.

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By *illy IdolMan
4 days ago

Midlands

I've not heard much this time round but I miss the silly promises. Last time it was how many trees they'll both plant. What is on trend this election?

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By *ondiego85Man
4 days ago

nottingham

Quite excited to see the result.

I’m sorry but I don’t share nor condone people who say they won’t be voting because “they all lie”. This way of thinking inevitably brings extremist forces in power. If you don’t vote, someone else will and you may have some nincompoop in power that has been voted by barely the 20% of the population because you weren’t arsed to go to the polling station.

This obviously mean that you should not complain if you won’t like the politics.

Voting is a right. You shall not give it up. Never.

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By *immyinreadingMan
4 days ago

henley on thames

"....think the last 5-ish days before the GE will feel like?

I don't mean in the obviously political sense (or I'd post this under "Politics").

I mean the vibe, the "geist", the general moods you're picking up on?

Tetchy, relaxed, holding breath, celebration, fear, ennui, apathy, lethargy, excitement etc.

Have you already noticed any particular vibes?

That's all."

It’s up to you as an individual.

I ignore it and get along with my normal life, so don’t notice any “vibes”, and don’t know what “geist” is.

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By *ell GwynnWoman
4 days ago

North Yorkshire

There's a bit of a buzz in the air here. I live in an area that's been blue since forever, but the polls are showing that may not be the case come Thursday. It's never been this tense.

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

"I've not heard much this time round but I miss the silly promises. Last time it was how many trees they'll both plant. What is on trend this election?"

The major trends I'm picking up on are "Vote Labour. We're a bit less shit than the Tories", and the far-more interesting short/medium term effects of the Tories potentially imploding beyond repair.

That makes space for something further right-wing to emerge, which in turn forces something more left-wing to emerge as well (over a few years).

I'm tempted to go all Hegelian on this...but the short version is all this apathy and chaos combined are creating new forms.

Ugly, pretty, weird, unusual forms.

It's all hyper-stimulating in its consequences, whilst being highly apathetic at the same time.

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By *immyinreadingMan
4 days ago

henley on thames

I’m just back from a holiday in Scotland, and a mate of mine asked me what I sensed up there in relation to the election, what the vibes were, what people were saying.

What I sensed was that the weather wasn’t very warm, the golf, whiskey and scenery were fantastic, and that’s about it.

He thinks I’m mad for not talking politics with everyone I met. I think he’s mad for wanting to waste a holiday talking politics with people.

Each to theme own!

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By *illy IdolMan
4 days ago

Midlands

"I've not heard much this time round but I miss the silly promises. Last time it was how many trees they'll both plant. What is on trend this election?

The major trends I'm picking up on are "Vote Labour. We're a bit less shit than the Tories", and the far-more interesting short/medium term effects of the Tories potentially imploding beyond repair.

That makes space for something further right-wing to emerge, which in turn forces something more left-wing to emerge as well (over a few years).

I'm tempted to go all Hegelian on this...but the short version is all this apathy and chaos combined are creating new forms.

Ugly, pretty, weird, unusual forms.

It's all hyper-stimulating in its consequences, whilst being highly apathetic at the same time."

Reform party out in force in St Leonards?

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By *ackformore100Man
4 days ago

Tin town

"....think the last 5-ish days before the GE will feel like?

I don't mean in the obviously political sense (or I'd post this under "Politics").

I mean the vibe, the "geist", the general moods you're picking up on?

Tetchy, relaxed, holding breath, celebration, fear, ennui, apathy, lethargy, excitement etc.

Have you already noticed any particular vibes?

That's all."

Of all the elections I've experienced.. This one had nobody I trust with my vote, no policies, not a single policy I trust them to honour or be capable to deliver. It's quite scary. I feel for our younger generation who generally seem disengaged or poorly informed about it's significance and just as likely to vote for love island as a politician. So to answer your post... I'll be anxious, tetchy and concerned that nobody is anything close to earning my vote and yet I must vote.

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By *AYENCouple
4 days ago

Lincolnshire

I've seen the Labour promotional vid on YT - more houses, cheaper energy, more police etc. etc. I haven't seen any from the Tories - but I expect it will contain similar lies.

Whilst our politicians are mostly career politicians I don't suppose much will change. K.

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By *aM 689Man
4 days ago

Lanarkshire

Being in Scotland, I'm finding it a difficult decision to make. Obviously the Tories are pretty much non-existant up here and I cant see that changing.

Personally, I favour independence (not in an anti-English/UK way, thats a whole other conversation) but I think the SNP, who have been pretty much unopposed for the last 10+ years, are a shambles and blame Westminster for their ineptitude when in reality our health, education, justice, social care etc. have been ruined with them in power.

In saying all that, there is no alternative up here as the SNP are the only viable option towards independence, so for me, its a bit of a catch 22.

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

"I've seen the Labour promotional vid on YT - more houses, cheaper energy, more police etc. etc. I haven't seen any from the Tories - but I expect it will contain similar lies.

Whilst our politicians are mostly career politicians I don't suppose much will change. K.

You see, I'm looking at this through a psychological, behavioural, and historical lens (great upheavals).

In essence, I agree that nothing will change much on the surface. A bit better, but only a bit.

The bigger problem is that we are in an epoch that is changing (beneath the surface) in a way we haven't really been through for centuries.

So the underlying tremors are all about change (nothing but change - enormous change), but our answers are either "not changing" (business as usual with Starmer, but a bit less "mad" than the last 8 years), or the madness we have exhibited in the last decade, which seems like the wrong sort of mad to grapple with the different sort of mad underlying everything.

This election is just one event from within a whole series of unfurling chaos.

Apathy masks the chaos, but the chaos is the only constant, and won't exhaust itself for many decades before establishing a new equilibrium (which itself always contains seeds of future chaos, but much more beneath the surface after an equilibrium is established).

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By *ot to giggleWoman
4 days ago

Coventry

well I suppose it could be worse and we could have Trump or Biden to choose from!

no idea - the local reform leader looks like he should be with Worzel Gummage and Aunt Sally! The local Labour candidate, well I havent had much hope in them from when I asked if they could help with the ASB and was told 'it would ruin our electoral profile'

My kid wants to vote blue because the Tory guy's son is pretty hot and she went to school with him! see reasoning there !!

maybe just go and tick them all

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

Anyway - thank you to everyone for commenting.

As an interesting aside, and I think it shows how the underlying trends are a bit beyond our consciousness, when we went "right", and it's been shit, France went "centre", and that's been shit too.

It looks like we're about to go "centre", and France is about to go "right".

We're both wearing the Emperor's New Clothes, and that creates the space for more extreme politics to enter.

So, my belief is we'll be centre for a decade. It won't work well enough. Scotland and NI will be leaving some time around then/20 years max. England will go Farage++ (maybe some new, more savvy right wing pin-up), that'll fuck up in turn, and in 3 or 4 decades the madness will finally exhaust itself.

But what replaces it will be something very unusual.

Crazy times ahead....which is even more odd because of our ennui and apathy in that process (if you want to depth analyse - ennui and apathy are actually motive forces feeding craziness - they leave an enormous hole that something needs to fill).

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By *ealitybitesMan
4 days ago

Belfast

As someone who is born and bred in Northern Ireland and been through decades of tribal politics I am completely uninterested in the general election and all forms of politics.

The only thing I have any interest in is how much my rates are, are the bins emptied on the correct day and why aren't the potholes being filled?

Anything beyond that is irrelevant because I have been numbed by years of inaction and dick measuring by people claiming to represent the people when in reality they have only ever represented their own personal interests.

I haven't had a single candidate at my door which is fine because I wouldn't be chatting to them anyway and not one of them turned up to any of the meetings over the last couple of years about a major environmental disaster waiting to happen right on my doorstep that could involve loss of life.

I will go to the polling station on Thursday and put an x somewhere on the paper if I vaguely recognise any of the names and feel they have been proactive locally. If not I'll spoil it.

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By *immyinreadingMan
4 days ago

henley on thames

Our local reform candidate is a man I have known for 20 years. Never says anything outright racist, but brings race and nationality into everything, it’s always there, always an undercurrent, and comments about “foreigners”. As a “foreigner” myself he always makes me feel deeply uncomfortable

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By *iddlesticksMan
4 days ago

My nan’s spare room.

I think it will feel like squeezing an over ripe easy peeler orange that’s gone a bit mouldy.

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By *rHotNottsMan
4 days ago

Dubai & Nottingham

I don’t watch TV, not really noticed it.

Must be very depressing though for those that care about these things, that no matter who wins they don’t have the authority to do what’s needed to change the system to bring about the results needed.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
4 days ago

East Sussex

Uncomfortable.

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By *ootyfruityCouple
4 days ago

andover

Literally couldn’t care less, whatever party gets in probably won’t be in long enough to start living up to their promises. I used to follow and vote, but each time, whatever party, still does shit

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

"Uncomfortable.

Yeah. Covers a lot of ground that word, doesn't it x

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By *avinaTVTV/TS
4 days ago

Transsexual Transylvania

"Our local reform candidate is a man I have known for 20 years. Never says anything outright racist, but brings race and nationality into everything, it’s always there, always an undercurrent, and comments about “foreigners”. As a “foreigner” myself he always makes me feel deeply uncomfortable "

A BNP canvasser many years ago told my wife we were the "right kind" of immigrant when she pointed out we were foreign immigrants. Reform as just the latest iteration. When they run out pf the "wrong kind" to other, then they'll turn on the "right kind".

Anyway, the lack of Tory effort in this format Tory safe seat is staggering. I'll not be sad if the seat goes LD, but I'm still voting Green.

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By *iddlesticksMan
4 days ago

My nan’s spare room.

"Uncomfortable.

Yeah. Covers a lot of ground that word, doesn't it x"

So does acreage.

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By *avinaTVTV/TS
4 days ago

Transsexual Transylvania

*former Tory safe seat.

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

"Uncomfortable.

Yeah. Covers a lot of ground that word, doesn't it x

So does acreage.

And manure

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
4 days ago

East Sussex

"Uncomfortable.

Yeah. Covers a lot of ground that word, doesn't it x"

It most certainly does.

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By *avinaTVTV/TS
4 days ago

Transsexual Transylvania

I get the distinct impression people just want them to hurry up and finish rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, so everyone can get on with their lives.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
4 days ago

East Sussex

"I get the distinct impression people just want them to hurry up and finish rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, so everyone can get on with their lives. "

yes, me too.

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

"I get the distinct impression people just want them to hurry up and finish rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, so everyone can get on with their lives.

yes, me too. "

Me 3. Even though we're all on the Titanic with them.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
4 days ago

East Sussex

"I get the distinct impression people just want them to hurry up and finish rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, so everyone can get on with their lives.

yes, me too.

Me 3. Even though we're all on the Titanic with them."

I'm running up and down the deck looking for a piece of drift wood to cling to

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

"I get the distinct impression people just want them to hurry up and finish rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, so everyone can get on with their lives.

yes, me too.

Me 3. Even though we're all on the Titanic with them.

I'm running up and down the deck looking for a piece of drift wood to cling to"

Big Harold - wood enough for everyone to cling to

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By *2000ManMan
4 days ago

Worthing

Labour landslide. Tories time for a reset. Reform get around 10 seats. Lib Dems 20-30. Mood of country seems to be good but I think that's due to the England footie result! In addition weather will be decent so turnout should be fairly high. I think people just want a change.

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By *oo..Woman
4 days ago

Boo's World

Already voted

Tv is off

Not listening to it on the radio

Can't be arsed having conversations about it either or having debates with others.

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

"Already voted

Tv is off

Not listening to it on the radio

Can't be arsed having conversations about it either or having debates with others. "

I thought you LOVED a mass debate Boo

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By *oo..Woman
4 days ago

Boo's World

"Already voted

Tv is off

Not listening to it on the radio

Can't be arsed having conversations about it either or having debates with others.

I thought you LOVED a mass debate Boo

Not on this subject no

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

"Already voted

Tv is off

Not listening to it on the radio

Can't be arsed having conversations about it either or having debates with others.

I thought you LOVED a mass debate Boo

Not on this subject no "

MP Bukkake?

30 of Westminster's "finest" unloading on Boo's tits and torso?

No?

Why not?

xxxx

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By *cotsguyyMan
4 days ago

Belfast

Turned very childish now.

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By *oo..Woman
4 days ago

Boo's World

"Already voted

Tv is off

Not listening to it on the radio

Can't be arsed having conversations about it either or having debates with others.

I thought you LOVED a mass debate Boo

Not on this subject no

MP Bukkake?

30 of Westminster's "finest" unloading on Boo's tits and torso?

No?

Why not?

xxxx"

Shouldn't this be in the politics section anyway?

And it's a no for the above idea

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

"Turned very childish now."

Well you started it

And Boo - yeah, maybe.

Although I was after "feelings" about change more than the obviously party political stuff...which I put in the opener.

If it gets moved by the mods, I couldn't be too upset.

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By *angerouslemaisonsMan
4 days ago

Peterborough

It’ll feel like every other day because most people don’t have the time to care or the will to engage

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
4 days ago

Reading

My neighbour is standing for the green party but stands no chance against the very very safe labour incumbent. He got his bike tyres and car tyres slashed.

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
4 days ago

St Leonards

"My neighbour is standing for the green party but stands no chance against the very very safe labour incumbent. He got his bike tyres and car tyres slashed."

That's pretty grim.

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By *lowupdollTV/TS
4 days ago

S. Herts

Anyone who can’t be bothered to vote how about voting for someone else? Vote for disabled people, elderly who can’t afford heat, lgbtq, people fleeing torture and death, people who lost loved ones while the tories partied, people relying on food banks, for your wife/sister/daughter who would like more police to feel safer living their lives, or just for people who think allowing everyone sone basic fucking human decency and a life of dignity is the job of government. It doesn’t have to be about which politics you believe, it can be about standing up for others.

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By *ackformore100Man
4 days ago

Tin town

"It’ll feel like every other day because most people don’t have the time to care or the will to engage "
not sure that's true. I think finally a lot of people care very much about the people who get the privelage to form a government on our behalf

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By *ackformore100Man
4 days ago

Tin town

"It’ll feel like every other day because most people don’t have the time to care or the will to engage not sure that's true. I think finally a lot of people care very much about the people who get the privelage to form a government on our behalf "

And if people don't care and can't be bothered to take some time and understand, then they really can't complain when they get something they don't like.

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By *4bimMan
4 days ago

Farnborough Hampshire

Heading for a low turn out?

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By *agatoXXXMan
4 days ago

Carol Vorderman's underwear drawer.

It's just as boring and tedious as the previous 5 weeks.

I'm so interested, I'll even prepared to wait til Friday to see all the "Portillo" moments on the news.

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By *avinaTVTV/TS
4 days ago

Transsexual Transylvania

"My neighbour is standing for the green party but stands no chance against the very very safe labour incumbent. He got his bike tyres and car tyres slashed."

That's absolutely despicable.

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
2 days ago

St Leonards

So, vote cast.

I was, of course, first there, leaving at 7.02 with 15 people waiting to vote. That indicates a strong turnout, as they'll process about 130 an hour, with busier hours and quieter ones of course.

But this is a thread about "vibes", not numbers - although they influence and affect each other.

So, Nick, you say - Fucking get on with it!

Jeez - you perverts are so demanding

The 2019 vibe was all "Get Brexit Done" - and led to a Tory landslide.

The 2024 vibe is "We're so fucked off with the Tories", and likely to lead to a Labour landslide.

And that's the vibe - landslides only occur on shaky ground, and these two landslides (one not certain yet) indicate enormous swings, enormously unsettled ground.

I'm not including NI, Scotland, and Wales in this thread, but any of those is capable of breaking the status quo over the coming decade.

And what about that status quo? It's teetering. If Tories get less than 100 seats, and Reform get half a dozen, how stable is the Tory party?

If Corbyn keeps Islington North as an Indy, the Greens get 3 or 4 seats, LibDems are/or close to Official Opposition, does Labour, with an enormous majority (likely) fragment into two parties over the coming years - Starmer's centrist and an eco-left new party, to challenge the Reform/Right Tory fragmentation?

An eco-left Labour party fragmentation has been on the cards for almost a decade. Excessive victory can be the impetus for creating it, rather than solidifying the majority. Some majorities are too big to be sustainable.

A word used above was "uncomfortable" - I've been "uncomfortable" since the financial crash - an entire world turned upside down personally, with my lovely million pound London home and swanky niche BMW Diplomatic career exchanged for being psychic, homeless, and poor.

Because I "see" earthquakes, not just landslides.

So that's my vibe. Whatever we get, nothing is settled. We are in unsettled, uncomfortable times, for a few decades yet.

That doesn't even include global politics (USA/China, Israel, Russia), and climate change.

If you want to read a good book on predicting the seemingly unpredictable, get yourself Tim Palmer's "Geometry of Chaos". He headed up the Met Office prediction systems after the Michael Fish 1987 hurricane fiasco, and using the physics/maths of non-linear systems he, and others, have established systems that not only provide better predictions of outlier events in meteorology, but it's increasingly applied across conflict prediction, disaster relief, economics/behavioural economics, and pandemic modelling.

We'll know the results of the GE this time tomorrow, but not the consequences.

I'm sticking with the crazy psychic stuff (partly because it's horribly consistent with cutting edge physics, but goes a lot further), and I look forward to being wrong about the utterly seismic changes in the 21st Century.

I hope we find a settled nation(s) and settled-enough world over this century.

If I weren't me, I would earnestly hope that that crazy guy Nicky K is wrong about it all.

It won't be much fun if I'm right. Even partially right.

So - that vibe?

What looks like a huge victory for Labour tomorrow is no more real than the huge victory for the Tories in 2019.

The times are bigger than the human's capacity to decipher the information, we're hoping for answers, but we're not asking the right questions. If such a thing even exists.

However, regardless of how "justifiable" the concepts of questions and answers are, we can still find ways to live productively.

I just very much doubt that the modern period, the pre- and post-Enlightenment modes of thinking, are up to the job.

So long, and thanks for all the fish,

Nick xxxxxx

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
19 hours ago

St Leonards

So...

The morning after the night before.

My only real change of "vibe".

The Tory loss was not as seismic as it could have been (if 70 MPs, they were dead as a party. Over 100, they limp on).

Which means that we're revisiting the shaky ground more. The ground is shaking, seismic pressure continues building, and we're still not changing at the same rate as the environment around us is changing.

Labour only got 2% more of the total votes than 2019 I think? (correct me), but over double the seats.

First Past The Post is one of those "shaky anachronisms".

So - the vibe.

We are still, for a few more decades, on very, very, shaky ground.

It will shake us beyond our ability to process...and it's only after the impending decades-long earthquakes have satisfied their need for release that we will finally, long overdue, change everything about ourselves to match that new paradigm.

Those who are neurodiverse, neurospicy, genderless or differently gendered - you are in a better place for this new paradigm than those who cling to tradition, because tradition has revealed itself to be no longer fit for purpose, and will do so ever-more frequently this century.

The aliens can't wait for Queer Humanity to join their party.

It's a good one, and overdue.

Because traditional humanity - that will destroy our species before we have a chance to enjoy the stars.

We still cling, desperately, to those traditions. They are opposed to reality.

Starmer's Labour will feel like some sense of normality, some sense of stability.

We need that deep breath, because we are traumatised.

But, sadly, it's only an illusion.

The pressures, the tremors beneath our feet, are not done with us yet.

The chaos has barely even started.

Morning bitches

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By *r John WickMan
19 hours ago

The Continental

Will there be cheap chips?

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By *ot to giggleWoman
19 hours ago

Coventry

ooh and free chocolate - our Labour MP doesnt like mowing the grass and was on the parish council and turned everything over to nature - haha this is going to be fun!!

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
18 hours ago

St Leonards

"Will there be cheap chips? "

They'll be a similar price to now.

Until climate change affects thr global distribution of foodstocks, at which point they'll become too expensive.

After we all run around losing our heads, some smart humans will institute fully automated luxury queer space psychic meditative communism.

That will institute vertical farming en masse, increasing spud yields 20 fold, and then your chips become cheap.

It's a behavioural process

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
18 hours ago

St Leonards

"ooh and free chocolate - our Labour MP doesnt like mowing the grass and was on the parish council and turned everything over to nature - haha this is going to be fun!! "

See spuds/chips above x

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By *ot to giggleWoman
18 hours ago

Coventry

"ooh and free chocolate - our Labour MP doesnt like mowing the grass and was on the parish council and turned everything over to nature - haha this is going to be fun!!

See spuds/chips above x"

that was too complicated - yes would have done

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By *ackformore100Man
18 hours ago

Tin town

"So...

The morning after the night before.

My only real change of "vibe".

The Tory loss was not as seismic as it could have been (if 70 MPs, they were dead as a party. Over 100, they limp on).

Labour only got 2% more of the total votes than 2019 I think? (correct me), but over double the seats.

First Past The Post is one of those "shaky anachronisms".

So - the vibe.

We are still, for a few more decades, on very, very, shaky ground.

The aliens can't wait for Queer Humanity to join their party.

It's a good one, and overdue.

Because traditional humanity - that will destroy our species before we have a chance to enjoy the stars.

We still cling, desperately, to those traditions. They are opposed to reality.

Starmer's Labour will feel like some sense of normality, some sense of stability.

We need that deep breath, because we are traumatised.

But, sadly, it's only an illusion.

The pressures, the tremors beneath our feet, are not done with us yet.

The chaos has barely even started.

Morning bitches

It's interesting that Labour, with only 1.6% more if the vote, achieved a landslide victory, but corbyn lost heavily with only 1.6% less of the vote... Go figure first past the post

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By *ansoffateMan
17 hours ago

Sagittarius A

Whilst I am happy with the election results, and I won't lie - I am grinning like a Cheshire cat with pure schadenfreude at the demise of the conservative party - I have a sense of disbelief at how many voted Conservative and reform. Reform got 4,000,000 votes acquiring 4 seats!

What does this say about our election system? That we should have Proportional Representation? Or are our citizens simply too stupid to be entrusted with the vote?

There's a real right wing element in this country isn't there, let's not forget though this is the government that fought to keep first past the post, so it's kind of ironic if they were to bleat about its merits now.

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By *ackformore100Man
16 hours ago

Tin town

"Whilst I am happy with the election results, and I won't lie - I am grinning like a Cheshire cat with pure schadenfreude at the demise of the conservative party - I have a sense of disbelief at how many voted Conservative and reform. Reform got 4,000,000 votes acquiring 4 seats!

What does this say about our election system? That we should have Proportional Representation? Or are our citizens simply too stupid to be entrusted with the vote?

Are you equating reform with right wing? And if there is a "right wing element" what does that mean? Isn't representation of all a healthy democracy? I'm not sure left or right has much relevance any longer. It was more a vote of anyone but the tories than an endorsement of Labour, who even with such a bunch of self serving lying fucks in charge only managed to increase their vote by 1.6% over when corbyns party lost heavily. It's concerning when any govt has such a majority they can't possibly be held to account (see the last govt)... But it's a new govt,let's hope they can fix the things that matter most to the most people. They are in theory there to serve us.

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
15 hours ago

St Leonards

So my musings from Hans and Backformore.

I've loathed the right wing since the age of 9 or 10.

But Reform is cleverer than that. It's right wing, dressed up as exciting change, dressed up as something else, and something else.

But so are all the parties in our postmodern confusion of what is real and how do we define it.

I can certainly see why the right have gained in strength. The financial crash and Austerity "de-growthed" large sections of the population.

Just about coping became less-than-coping.

Rents go up, wages go down. Working poverty, family breakdown, increases in gambling and alcohol consumption. Creating further spirals of poverty.

It all adds up to desperation, and it's simpler to blame the slightly-brown person from (insert scapegoat nationality here) than it is to grapple with the flaws in market-driven economies, futures trading, QE, post-Keynesian economic theories, bank bail-outs, etc, etc.

The brown-ish guy is a softer target...easier to blame than to think.

So, we're not going to do that well until we learn to think, and capitalism doesn't want a large portion of people to think too much - it's a threat to its order.

Neither do authoritarianism or old-style communism.

So we're a bit fucked really, because all the solutions apart from some highly educated and productive luxury socialism maintain the current systems, and that lovely new shiny luxury socialism/communism can't enter until all the belief in the old systems is eroded.

It's just daft to even think that voting once every 4/5 years even represents a citizen's ability to engage in meaningful life decisions.

But whilst we're all distracted with working 60 hour weeks and getting our leg-over on a sex site as some relief from the horror show of late modernity's failings, we're unlikely to have the energy to transform it all.

I actually quite like the comments about not voting - it may seem passive, but over a period of years, that degree of dissatisfaction stimulates necessary new modes of thinking and being.

I'm off for a wank x

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By *ackformore100Man
13 hours ago

Tin town

I think this is an interesting conversation. I don't understand the loathing of "right". I think it's a cheap and poorly thought shot especially when most people just repeat tropes. Same for left. Who can define what is right or left (not even Southgate apparently).

But above all things... One thing is true. Only 60% of those a titled to cite, cast a vote. Reform got 14% of the votea cast. More than lib dems who got 12%. Now one might reasonably expect the number of seats and therefore the "power" they are capable of wielding would be similar. Indeed one might thing reform because they had more people voting for them, might have more power. But no. Not a bit of it. I'm our fucking bizarre democracy. The party getting 14 % of the votes got less than 1% of the seats (4) And the party getting only 12% of the vote, got 11% of the seats... A whopping 71 seats. Whoever has the reigns let's hope they do a better job than the last lot.

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By *ansoffateMan
12 hours ago

Sagittarius A

What does this say about our election system? That we should have Proportional Representation? Or are our citizens simply too stupid to be entrusted with the vote?

Nicky has pretty much answered the question about reform and the right wing, I would agree with that, there's little for me to add.

To answer your other point about all views being represented in a democracy. I would agree so your point feels a bit like a potential straw man. For clarity I am a firm supporter of proportional representation, and not just when it suits. My point is that it's a bit rich now it no longer suits the conservative agenda to become pro PR, after they fought to keep first past the post over a decade ago.

I would go further than accountability of the incumbent government and increase direct democracy by involving the citizenship more in decision making, on the issue by issue basis that and suggest that this would be the pathway away from simplistic left - right polarised debate.

I don't think the purpose of government is to simply fix the things most care about. It is also to protect the rights of the minority. I appreciate your sentiment though and I agree they are there as elected representatives and any power they hold over us is only granted by our consent.

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By *ackformore100Man
10 hours ago

Tin town

It's funny... Not haha... About 20 maybe 30byears ago. When Italy changed its prime minister more often than was healthy and formed and broke coalition to achieve any sort of power. and they were the proportional representation... I thought how can that possibly be a way to govern a country.? .. And yet over the last decade or so.... First past the post seems so archaic. It can't be democratic that any party with only 31 percent of the vote, can hold more than 2/3rds of the seats in government. I hope they use their power wisely for our benefit unlike the last lot who increasingly only looked to benefit themselves.

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By *ickyKlungespeare OP Man
8 hours ago

St Leonards

Yup to both of you.

If government weren't progressive, our monarch would still have the legal and God-claimed right to r*pe with impunity.

And several thousand other unpleasant things.

So it's a slow, historical process of resistance to change, but change happening.

Of 43 countries recognised to be "Europe-y", only Belarus, UK, and France don't use a form of PR.

France's isn't quite first past the post, but it's as near as makes no real difference.

Direct democracy - yes.

And there are ways of making tech work with this.

All political systems change as culture and tech change - because life changes, and politics is, basically, choices about life.

Particularly in direct democracy.

Get DD "right enough", it can even feel less like governance and more like "responsive and responsible freedom".

However - our tradition weighs us down.

Because we basically invented the modern democratic system around the time of the English Civil War, which part-stimulated the French Revolution over 100 years later (both were bourgeois revolutions to limit or dispense with absolute rule of monarchy to, effectively, what would be seen more as an oligarchy than a democracy today...but back then it would have been called democratic).

So, "cognitively" we somewhat accept the antiquated Westminster system as "democracy", when it's a limited choice every few years for only 650 people (representing 68 million), to follow party, corporate, and media lines rather than principled lines.

There's been a few principled politicians like Corbyn, but they're rare.

So, if we're too lazy to be the seat of governance ourselves, as the people, we gets what we pays for - that shit 3-400 year old Westminster system that creaks too much.

The good news is, once Scotland and NI go (particularly Scotland, because its resource, education, academic, science, energy, and maritime resources are huge), England (Wales might decide not to be left with us...we are the somewhat crazy uncle figure us English currently) will be in cultural shock and trauma.

And cultural shock and trauma are the harbingers of enormous change, because they make space for it.

Would be nice to get there before we join the Biden and Trump crazies in their next war, or the Israeli crazies with their land grab Ethno-Armageddon-Prophecy lunacy.

But we probably won't, because we resist change and thought - unless it gets sold to our unthinking herd mentality as the simple change that solves all ills (the lie of Brexit).

Incidentally - there are enormous benefits to Brexit.

It kills the UK - which is the space required for the new stuff.

The UK is only (Crowns) 400 years old, or (politico-legal) 300. Arguably 200 if you tinker around with Ireland's history within the UK concept.

And, just like the EU was a union that can be exited, the Union of Kingdoms and Parliaments (UK) can be exited.

Scotland has the original Acts of Union, Scots Law, and International Law on its side once it decides to do this, and NI has the Good Friday Agreement.

So there you go - Brexit will indeed deliver freedom.

From Westminster even more than Brussels.

Ain't it poetic

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