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"It’s about what is essentially a British war crime so I don’t see how it can be banter. " Que? | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany " Offensive. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany " I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. | |||
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"It’s about what is essentially a British war crime so I don’t see how it can be banter. " How's that ? | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. " It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. " What have people in Germany in 2024 got to do with the wars? Nothing. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? " Never, probably. The orange lot still sing songs about the battle of the boyne in 1690 | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? " I reckon it'll take another 100 years. Unbelievably people are still teaching their children to make casually insulting remarks about Germans | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Never, probably. The orange lot still sing songs about the battle of the boyne in 1690 " and the religious lot still bang on about fictional characters from books | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany " I think we all know the answer. Deliberately and knowingly offensive. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. What have people in Germany in 2024 got to do with the wars? Nothing. " Agreed. Back to your point earlier, why does.ir glorify a war crime ? | |||
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Typical (some Brits) being arseholes... Shock  | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? " Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. " Yeah true and people still love to blame the current generation for stuff our great great grandparents did. On the subject the op asked. Moronic and frankly offensive, but I'd imagine that the people singing it fink dey iz well cleva innit | |||
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" Back to your point earlier, why does.ir glorify a war crime ?" It is argued that "area bombing" - flattening whole cities - was contrary to international law. Of course the Germans did it first (eg the Blitz) but we did it worse*. According to international law, attacks which deliberately or recklessly caused civilian casualties were war crimes. But war criminals are judge by the victors, so no cases were heard. * If you don't believe we were worse, compare photos of Hanover and the east end of London. The east end suffered terribly. Hanover was totally destroyed. | |||
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" Back to your point earlier, why does.ir glorify a war crime ? It is argued that "area bombing" - flattening whole cities - was contrary to international law. Of course the Germans did it first (eg the Blitz) but we did it worse*. According to international law, attacks which deliberately or recklessly caused civilian casualties were war crimes. But war criminals are judge by the victors, so no cases were heard. * If you don't believe we were worse, compare photos of Hanover and the east end of London. The east end suffered terribly. Hanover was totally destroyed. " But that's not what the song is about. It's about defensive actions taken by the raf against Germany. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. What have people in Germany in 2024 got to do with the wars? Nothing. Agreed. Back to your point earlier, why does.ir glorify a war crime ?" Is Russia justified in targeting civilians in Ukraine? Is Israel justified in targeting civilians in Gaza? Are those actions not ear crimes? | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. What have people in Germany in 2024 got to do with the wars? Nothing. Agreed. Back to your point earlier, why does.ir glorify a war crime ? Is Russia justified in targeting civilians in Ukraine? Is Israel justified in targeting civilians in Gaza? Are those actions not ear crimes?" *war | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. What have people in Germany in 2024 got to do with the wars? Nothing. Agreed. Back to your point earlier, why does.ir glorify a war crime ? Is Russia justified in targeting civilians in Ukraine? Is Israel justified in targeting civilians in Gaza? Are those actions not ear crimes?" Israel has argued it isn't targeting civilians and the conflation of the two is erroneous. | |||
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"But please don't accuse the air crew of war crimes (which I know the previous poster didn't). If there were crimes they were committed by Arthur Harris and Winston Churchill. " Air crew committed no crimes in that respect - My grandad served as a navigator on a Lancaster bomber from start to finish of the war. Awful, just awful. He never spoke about that time after, although chatted a bit about friends he'd made and so forth. Crappy job to do, but one he did because he saw the lay of the land and signed up early. Incredible human being he was, and war is just a terrible situation all round. The life expectancy of someone serving on a bombing crew was ridiculously short. He lost so many mates... So yep, footy wankers can stand there in their £100+ season top, swilling pints, chanting shit. Thinking they're the dogs bollocks! But basically they're just silly, sad, and know fuck all  | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. What have people in Germany in 2024 got to do with the wars? Nothing. Agreed. Back to your point earlier, why does.ir glorify a war crime ? Is Russia justified in targeting civilians in Ukraine? Is Israel justified in targeting civilians in Gaza? Are those actions not ear crimes? Israel has argued it isn't targeting civilians and the conflation of the two is erroneous." Only a fool believes anything Israel says. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. What have people in Germany in 2024 got to do with the wars? Nothing. Agreed. Back to your point earlier, why does.ir glorify a war crime ? Is Russia justified in targeting civilians in Ukraine? Is Israel justified in targeting civilians in Gaza? Are those actions not ear crimes? Israel has argued it isn't targeting civilians and the conflation of the two is erroneous. Only a fool believes anything Israel says." As opposed to Hamas? | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. " Germany paid reparations for what they did in the war, perhaps the same should be done for sl@very and colonisation etc. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations for what they did in the war, perhaps the same should be done for sl@very and colonisation etc." Who will pay the reparations ? and who will receive them ? Sl@very wasn't invented in the 1700's, been going on for thousands of years and still going on now | |||
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"Offensive, and pathetic. Why do so many people in this country live in the past?" Cos the Germans bombed our chip-shop | |||
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"Not at all shocked by the mob behaviour of knuckle dragging neanderthals that pass as today's typical football fan. Majority of the dickheads would probably be hard pressed to tell you when WW2 took place. No wonder the majority of Europeans dread Brits abroad!" Idiots everywhere not just from England , You would know if you ever went abroad following your football team | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations for what they did in the war, perhaps the same should be done for sl@very and colonisation etc." Germany paid reparations after WW1 only. It proved to be a very bad move which was one of the major reasons for the rise of the Nazi Party and a increase in German militarism and hence to WW2. Thankfully the Allies after WW2 realised reparations were a bad idea and they were not imposed on Germany. | |||
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"Not at all shocked by the mob behaviour of knuckle dragging neanderthals that pass as today's typical football fan. Majority of the dickheads would probably be hard pressed to tell you when WW2 took place. No wonder the majority of Europeans dread Brits abroad! Idiots everywhere not just from England , You would know if you ever went abroad following your football team" So because every other country/team has a cohort of idiots we gave to have them too - excellent logic. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations for what they did in the war, perhaps the same should be done for sl@very and colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations after WW1 only. It proved to be a very bad move which was one of the major reasons for the rise of the Nazi Party and a increase in German militarism and hence to WW2. Thankfully the Allies after WW2 realised reparations were a bad idea and they were not imposed on Germany." Germany paid billions in reparations after WW2 to the allied forces. More than 20 odd billion | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations for what they did in the war, perhaps the same should be done for sl@very and colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations after WW1 only. It proved to be a very bad move which was one of the major reasons for the rise of the Nazi Party and a increase in German militarism and hence to WW2. Thankfully the Allies after WW2 realised reparations were a bad idea and they were not imposed on Germany." The Allies agreed for German reparations to be paid in the following forms: Dismantling of the German industry Transferring all manufacturing equipment, machinery and machine tools to the Allies Transferring all railroad cars, locomotives and ships to the Allies Confiscation of all German investments abroad All gold, silver and platinum in bullion or coin form held by any person/institution in Germany All foreign currency All patents and research data relevant to military application and processes Requisition of current German industrial production and resource extraction Forced labour provided by the German population The ultimate value of reparations paid by East Germany and West Germany was in the region of $300,000,000,000. | |||
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"Not at all shocked by the mob behaviour of knuckle dragging neanderthals that pass as today's typical football fan. Majority of the dickheads would probably be hard pressed to tell you when WW2 took place. No wonder the majority of Europeans dread Brits abroad! Idiots everywhere not just from England , You would know if you ever went abroad following your football team So because every other country/team has a cohort of idiots we gave to have them too - excellent logic." Wtf are you going on about, I'm pointing out there are idiots everywhere not just from England | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations for what they did in the war, perhaps the same should be done for sl@very and colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations after WW1 only. It proved to be a very bad move which was one of the major reasons for the rise of the Nazi Party and a increase in German militarism and hence to WW2. Thankfully the Allies after WW2 realised reparations were a bad idea and they were not imposed on Germany. The Allies agreed for German reparations to be paid in the following forms: Dismantling of the German industry Transferring all manufacturing equipment, machinery and machine tools to the Allies Transferring all railroad cars, locomotives and ships to the Allies Confiscation of all German investments abroad All gold, silver and platinum in bullion or coin form held by any person/institution in Germany All foreign currency All patents and research data relevant to military application and processes Requisition of current German industrial production and resource extraction Forced labour provided by the German population The ultimate value of reparations paid by East Germany and West Germany was in the region of $300,000,000,000." Germany didn't finish paying the reparations after ww2 until 2010.....bit of useless informational for you all... Mr | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations for what they did in the war, perhaps the same should be done for sl@very and colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations after WW1 only. It proved to be a very bad move which was one of the major reasons for the rise of the Nazi Party and a increase in German militarism and hence to WW2. Thankfully the Allies after WW2 realised reparations were a bad idea and they were not imposed on Germany. The Allies agreed for German reparations to be paid in the following forms: Dismantling of the German industry Transferring all manufacturing equipment, machinery and machine tools to the Allies Transferring all railroad cars, locomotives and ships to the Allies Confiscation of all German investments abroad All gold, silver and platinum in bullion or coin form held by any person/institution in Germany All foreign currency All patents and research data relevant to military application and processes Requisition of current German industrial production and resource extraction Forced labour provided by the German population The ultimate value of reparations paid by East Germany and West Germany was in the region of $300,000,000,000." Research data I feel is massive? Terrible crimes were committed during both World Wars, but the data from them has shaped who we all as a world wide perogative have become? It's awful, it's tragic!... But the outcome of ad hoc experiments during times of war. Often lead to the breakthroughs that we know in medical science today? It's not fair, it's not right! But human medical experiments are the Gold standard. Whether we like it or not (and whilst I strongly think it horrific). The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today | |||
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"It's not fair, it's not right! But human medical experiments are the Gold standard. Whether we like it or not (and whilst I strongly think it horrific). The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today" Jesus fucking Christ | |||
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"The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today " Don't worry about all the inhuman ways in which they experimented on people, as long as it advances medicine and science. Dr Menegele was a legend hey....... Mr | |||
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"It's not fair, it's not right! But human medical experiments are the Gold standard. Whether we like it or not (and whilst I strongly think it horrific). The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today Jesus fucking Christ " Took the words out my mouth | |||
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"It's not fair, it's not right! But human medical experiments are the Gold standard. Whether we like it or not (and whilst I strongly think it horrific). The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today Jesus fucking Christ " What are you bitching about? Seriously, I'm not advocating it? I'm in no way stating it's right?... But the reality is that it is true. Animal experiments only go so far. Human experiment on humans is the best possible outcome. Why do you think there are so many human trials that pay ££? You're making it sound like I'm applauding the use of human trials (agreed or not). And I'm not! But I'll not say the atrocious behaviour, that was way beyond the Geneva convention during WW2. Didn't supply a lot of medical information? Because it did! And whilst massively wrong how it was gained... We have shaped things from that to this day | |||
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"The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today Don't worry about all the inhuman ways in which they experimented on people, as long as it advances medicine and science. Dr Menegele was a legend hey....... Mr " You're twisting my words 
I'm saying they had an open hand to experiment. It was massively abhorrent and very, very wrong. But that open hand (without consent). Medically led to a lot of breakthroughs. They should not have been the green light to go ahead still. It was a terrible time | |||
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"The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today Don't worry about all the inhuman ways in which they experimented on people, as long as it advances medicine and science. Dr Menegele was a legend hey....... Mr You're twisting my words
I'm saying they had an open hand to experiment. It was massively abhorrent and very, very wrong. But that open hand (without consent). Medically led to a lot of breakthroughs. They should not have been the green light to go ahead still. It was a terrible time "This is fair but they way you termed it left this out tbh. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations for what they did in the war, perhaps the same should be done for sl@very and colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations after WW1 only. It proved to be a very bad move which was one of the major reasons for the rise of the Nazi Party and a increase in German militarism and hence to WW2. Thankfully the Allies after WW2 realised reparations were a bad idea and they were not imposed on Germany. The Allies agreed for German reparations to be paid in the following forms: Dismantling of the German industry Transferring all manufacturing equipment, machinery and machine tools to the Allies Transferring all railroad cars, locomotives and ships to the Allies Confiscation of all German investments abroad All gold, silver and platinum in bullion or coin form held by any person/institution in Germany All foreign currency All patents and research data relevant to military application and processes Requisition of current German industrial production and resource extraction Forced labour provided by the German population The ultimate value of reparations paid by East Germany and West Germany was in the region of $300,000,000,000." You should Google the Marshall plan. It was implemented by the States in 1948 and by 1950 the UK and France. Whose initial approach of dismantling was to prevent future militarisation. invest and rebuild West Germany, hence why it became an industrial power house again. East Germany fell under the control of the USSR who did not invest, in fairness because Russia was ravaged by WW2. The goal was denazification of Germany and to remove trade barriers in Europe. After the cold war began. From what I can tell Germany repaid nothing like 300 billion. They did pay 3 billion dollars to Israel and they owe the US 90 billion dollars still. Germany came out of the situation very well I think. Without US intervention and the support of the and France it would have been swallowed by the USSR. Instead of regaining it's independence, becoming the most powerful political and economic force in the EU. | |||
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"Only the English football fans can do a good job of showing themselves up and show up the nation as usual. Disgraceful and, disrespectful. It's not banter, it's stupidity at its best " Unfortunately, that sort of behaviour is just far too common in football. I don’t go to matches any more. | |||
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"The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today Don't worry about all the inhuman ways in which they experimented on people, as long as it advances medicine and science. Dr Menegele was a legend hey....... Mr You're twisting my words
I'm saying they had an open hand to experiment. It was massively abhorrent and very, very wrong. But that open hand (without consent). Medically led to a lot of breakthroughs. They should not have been the green light to go ahead still. It was a terrible time
This is fair but they way you termed it left this out tbh.
"What? Me stating it was horrific, awful, and abhorrent? Was that not enough? Yes, a massively emotive subject absolutely! But if you're that knee jerk to pounce on someone's options in a thread?...Then maybes that on you, not me
At what point was it upsetting how I termed it? 'A free hand for medical experiments?'. Because sadly, and awfully that was the case at that point in history.
That it lead to new medical discoveries? - it did? So, so much of recent medical advances were discovered during WW2. Purely down to the experimentation on people in extermination camps during that time. It's abhorrent, beyond belief!... But it's also very factual.
If you'd prefer to give a different version of events historically? Then that's cool too
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"Only the English football fans can do a good job of showing themselves up and show up the nation as usual. Disgraceful and, disrespectful. It's not banter, it's stupidity at its best " I don't agree with the chant, but it's not only England fans that are a disgrace. Serbs were attacked at a bar by suspected Albania fans, 3 scots avr been arrested too. Put together football fans and excessive booze and there's bound to be issues | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Never, probably. The orange lot still sing songs about the battle of the boyne in 1690 " And the paddies sing songs about eight hundred years ago. | |||
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"Only the English football fans can do a good job of showing themselves up and show up the nation as usual. Disgraceful and, disrespectful. It's not banter, it's stupidity at its best " Oh wise up. Obviously you don't follow football. Celtc fans lynched effigies of protestants at a game. They sing songs about murdering people. But yeah it's only the English. There was some Scottish paedo on TV singing about the ira the other night at the euros. But yeah it's only the English. English people need to wise up and stop putting themselves down all the time. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations for what they did in the war, perhaps the same should be done for sl@very and colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations after WW1 only. It proved to be a very bad move which was one of the major reasons for the rise of the Nazi Party and a increase in German militarism and hence to WW2. Thankfully the Allies after WW2 realised reparations were a bad idea and they were not imposed on Germany. The Allies agreed for German reparations to be paid in the following forms: Dismantling of the German industry Transferring all manufacturing equipment, machinery and machine tools to the Allies Transferring all railroad cars, locomotives and ships to the Allies Confiscation of all German investments abroad All gold, silver and platinum in bullion or coin form held by any person/institution in Germany All foreign currency All patents and research data relevant to military application and processes Requisition of current German industrial production and resource extraction Forced labour provided by the German population The ultimate value of reparations paid by East Germany and West Germany was in the region of $300,000,000,000. You should Google the Marshall plan. It was implemented by the States in 1948 and by 1950 the UK and France. Whose initial approach of dismantling was to prevent future militarisation. invest and rebuild West Germany, hence why it became an industrial power house again. East Germany fell under the control of the USSR who did not invest, in fairness because Russia was ravaged by WW2. The goal was denazification of Germany and to remove trade barriers in Europe. After the cold war began. From what I can tell Germany repaid nothing like 300 billion. They did pay 3 billion dollars to Israel and they owe the US 90 billion dollars still. Germany came out of the situation very well I think. Without US intervention and the support of the and France it would have been swallowed by the USSR. Instead of regaining it's independence, becoming the most powerful political and economic force in the EU." Do we think bankrupting the post-WW2 German state would have helped with anything? The Allies effectively did that after WW1 and look what good that did. | |||
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"And repeat….. England fans were not to blame for any trouble between SERBIAN and ALBANIAN football fans. Hopefully that’s a bit clearer for some of you. " I've seen enough idiots when traveling to watch my club aboard, I know its not just a English problem, A huge number of England fans act like d*unken knobs but don't go looking for trouble, most of the time its other fans attacking England fans who then fight back | |||
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"And repeat….. England fans were not to blame for any trouble between SERBIAN and ALBANIAN football fans. Hopefully that’s a bit clearer for some of you. I've seen enough idiots when traveling to watch my club aboard, I know its not just a English problem, A huge number of England fans act like d*unken knobs but don't go looking for trouble, most of the time its other fans attacking England fans who then fight back " Foreigners who caught up with hooliganism thirty years too late. Think they're hard. | |||
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"And repeat….. England fans were not to blame for any trouble between SERBIAN and ALBANIAN football fans. Hopefully that’s a bit clearer for some of you. I've seen enough idiots when traveling to watch my club aboard, I know its not just a English problem, A huge number of England fans act like d*unken knobs but don't go looking for trouble, most of the time its other fans attacking England fans who then fight back Foreigners who caught up with hooliganism thirty years too late. Think they're hard. " I think the Italians and others would disagree with you. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany " That video is supposed to be from the last World Cup. Not this tournament. (Doesn’t make it right but loads of folk being sucked in) K | |||
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"The “RAF from England” bit is a bit offensive to my grandad’s brother - a RAF pilot, shot down in the war….from Wales" I've often wondered if the WW2-type chanting is also heard from Scottish, Welsh, NI and other nations? WW2 was fought by the British state + Commonwealth + Allied nations, after all. | |||
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"'Football' is a terrible 'sport'. Grown adults, paid fortunes to run around a pitch for 90mins, kicking a ball,falling over. It's not a skill. It's barely even a sport... But we pay millions to watch this crap... So whose the silly one? "You for what you've just typed  | |||
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"The “RAF from England” bit is a bit offensive to my grandad’s brother - a RAF pilot, shot down in the war….from Wales I've often wondered if the WW2-type chanting is also heard from Scottish, Welsh, NI and other nations? WW2 was fought by the British state + Commonwealth + Allied nations, after all. " I’ve followed Wales since the 1980s. I’ve never heard it; indeed Wales fans would want to run a mile from that kind of chant. It really angers people that England fans claim WWII was won by them. It’s part of the perception that Britain=England, and that’s where a lot of the desire to differentiate comes from in Wales/Scotland fans. That’s not to say Wales fans are perfect, of course, but know we’re a small country and most want to create a good impression. | |||
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"'Football' is a terrible 'sport'. Grown adults, paid fortunes to run around a pitch for 90mins, kicking a ball,falling over. It's not a skill. It's barely even a sport... But we pay millions to watch this crap... So whose the silly one?
You for what you've just typed "Me? Because it's all that? It's not, it's really not! And I grew up in an environment where financially, and sporting it was all that | |||
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"Two world wars and one world cup
Mr "No….just one World Cup (with a key goal that never crossed the line) | |||
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"Two world wars and one world cup
Mr
No….just one World Cup (with a key goal that never crossed the line) "But the score was 4-2 so the contentious goal made no difference to the result. | |||
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"I've often wondered if the WW2-type chanting is also heard from Scottish, Welsh, NI and other nations? WW2 was fought by the British state + Commonwealth + Allied nations, after all. " Only by rangers fans, who'd rather be english anyway. | |||
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"Two world wars and one world cup
Mr
No….just one World Cup (with a key goal that never crossed the line)
But the score was 4-2 so the contentious goal made no difference to the result."Oh, I do realise that. It definitely helped though, as it forced the Germans to search more desperately for an equaliser. Look at the position of their players and the space Hurst had. | |||
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" The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today " In what way? Which development can we ascribe to them? Gbat | |||
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" The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today In what way? Which development can we ascribe to them? Gbat " Quite a few? There were a few thousand or so Nazi scientists given leway to move to the US, or other after the war and not prosecuted. In fairness, most were probably shoe horned into the exterminate 'programme'. But at the time they were the forerunners leading in science. If not do you think America would have been so keen to take them in? | |||
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" The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today In what way? Which development can we ascribe to them? Gbat Quite a few? There were a few thousand or so Nazi scientists given leway to move to the US, or other after the war and not prosecuted. In fairness, most were probably shoe horned into the exterminate 'programme'. But at the time they were the forerunners leading in science. If not do you think America would have been so keen to take them in? " As the quote you're responding to mainly concerns medical science, the US (under Operation Paperclip) mostly took German physicists and engineers. Their fields of expertise were aeronautics and rocketry, electronics and some architects. There were only a few medical scientists taken and they were all involved in bio-chemical weaponry. There were about 200 in total, certainly not thousands. | |||
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" The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today In what way? Which development can we ascribe to them? Gbat Quite a few? There were a few thousand or so Nazi scientists given leway to move to the US, or other after the war and not prosecuted. In fairness, most were probably shoe horned into the exterminate 'programme'. But at the time they were the forerunners leading in science. If not do you think America would have been so keen to take them in? As the quote you're responding to mainly concerns medical science, the US (under Operation Paperclip) mostly took German physicists and engineers. Their fields of expertise were aeronautics and rocketry, electronics and some architects. There were only a few medical scientists taken and they were all involved in bio-chemical weaponry. There were about 200 in total, certainly not thousands." Operation paperclip took in 1600 people, many of who were scientists | |||
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" The Nazis had such an open hand for medical trials, military trials... They massively medically, brought forward who we are today In what way? Which development can we ascribe to them? Gbat Quite a few? There were a few thousand or so Nazi scientists given leway to move to the US, or other after the war and not prosecuted. In fairness, most were probably shoe horned into the exterminate 'programme'. But at the time they were the forerunners leading in science. If not do you think America would have been so keen to take them in? As the quote you're responding to mainly concerns medical science, the US (under Operation Paperclip) mostly took German physicists and engineers. Their fields of expertise were aeronautics and rocketry, electronics and some architects. There were only a few medical scientists taken and they were all involved in bio-chemical weaponry. There were about 200 in total, certainly not thousands. Operation paperclip took in 1600 people, many of who were scientists " I said - scientists... They were all scientists in one field or another? I said a couple of thousand? I didn't specify they were all genetics based? | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Same could be said of things like sl@ve trade, colonisation etc. Germany paid reparations for what they did in the war, perhaps the same should be done for sl@very and colonisation etc." They paid reparations for the first world war,one of the reasons they kicked off the second.We were not only the first country to ban sl@very,through the Navy we spent 70 years and 1,700 lives stamping it out.Gordon of Khartoum ended sl@very in Sudan until he was murdered by the pro sl@very Mahdists,so we sent an army back in.We defeated the pro sl@very Boers in 1899-1902.We created the largest democracy on earth,India,where under British rule everyone was (and still is) equal before the law,despite religion or caste.We owe nothing for sl@very or Empire.Are the Egyptians,Italians,Belgians,Spanish,Portuguese,Germans,French paying anything for their empires?How about the black African sl@ve traders selling their own people into sl@very?Or the Arab nations with their overland sl@ve routes to the sl@ve markets in Jeddah? | |||
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"It's a wind-up, fair enough, that's what football chats are intended to do. But Germans see UK obsession with WWII as a pit pathetic." Well, they would, wouldn’t they. | |||
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" Germany came out of the situation very well I think. Without US intervention and the support of the and France it would have been swallowed by the USSR. Instead of regaining it's independence, becoming the most powerful political and economic force in the EU. Do we think bankrupting the post-WW2 German state would have helped with anything? The Allies effectively did that after WW1 and look what good that did." No and that's my point really. Those countries who were ravaged by Germany's war of expansion and extermination, put aside the damages caused to them and even though they were billions in debt themselves from fighting Germany, helped to rebuild it. A legacy which still influences the issues now in Ukraine and Israel. Germany hasn't scratched the surface of the damage caused via reparation and is sitting in a much better place 80 years later than the people it waged war on. Unless we are going to attribute their relative success to some form of genetic superiority against the odds? I'd say Germany did rather well all things considered. They were lucky it wasn't carved up and annexed. | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? Never, probably. The orange lot still sing songs about the battle of the boyne in 1690 " They call it culture. I'd your culture extends to antagonism of other you should question it. | |||
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"It’s about what is essentially a British war crime so I don’t see how it can be banter. " What was the war crime? | |||
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"Banter or are they being offensive especially singing the song in Germany I don't think you can start, and lose, two World wars and not expect people to take the piss. It was 80+ years ago. At what point do we understand that the modern German state is not the state that did those things? " Very well said. | |||
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" Germany came out of the situation very well I think. Without US intervention and the support of the and France it would have been swallowed by the USSR. Instead of regaining it's independence, becoming the most powerful political and economic force in the EU. Do we think bankrupting the post-WW2 German state would have helped with anything? The Allies effectively did that after WW1 and look what good that did. No and that's my point really. Those countries who were ravaged by Germany's war of expansion and extermination, put aside the damages caused to them and even though they were billions in debt themselves from fighting Germany, helped to rebuild it. A legacy which still influences the issues now in Ukraine and Israel. Germany hasn't scratched the surface of the damage caused via reparation and is sitting in a much better place 80 years later than the people it waged war on. Unless we are going to attribute their relative success to some form of genetic superiority against the odds? I'd say Germany did rather well all things considered. They were lucky it wasn't carved up and annexed." Except it was carved up and occupied. It's just the western allies saw the USSR as the greater threat (rightly) so supported its development and rehabilitation. Germany wasn't united fully until 1990 when East Germany ceased to exist. That it's done so much better post war than much of Eastern Europe probably has as much (more) to do with Communism than anything else in those countries, whose development was crippled. | |||
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" Germany came out of the situation very well I think. Without US intervention and the support of the and France it would have been swallowed by the USSR. Instead of regaining it's independence, becoming the most powerful political and economic force in the EU. Do we think bankrupting the post-WW2 German state would have helped with anything? The Allies effectively did that after WW1 and look what good that did. No and that's my point really. Those countries who were ravaged by Germany's war of expansion and extermination, put aside the damages caused to them and even though they were billions in debt themselves from fighting Germany, helped to rebuild it. A legacy which still influences the issues now in Ukraine and Israel. Germany hasn't scratched the surface of the damage caused via reparation and is sitting in a much better place 80 years later than the people it waged war on. Unless we are going to attribute their relative success to some form of genetic superiority against the odds? I'd say Germany did rather well all things considered. They were lucky it wasn't carved up and annexed. Except it was carved up and occupied. It's just the western allies saw the USSR as the greater threat (rightly) so supported its development and rehabilitation. Germany wasn't united fully until 1990 when East Germany ceased to exist. That it's done so much better post war than much of Eastern Europe probably has as much (more) to do with Communism than anything else in those countries, whose development was crippled." East Germany suffered too, but West Germany prospered. When I say annexed, I mean it would cease to exist today and would have become the territory of neighbouring nations. I agree though if it wasn't in the interests of the west to prevent the expansion of the USSR into western Europe then the Marshall plan probably never would have happened. But if it wasn't for Germany's aggressive expansion and bloody war against Russia and communism, would the USSR have seen Western Europe as such a threat to its existence? Hitler's war created the Military Industrial complex and tension that facilitated the cold war. | |||
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" Back to your point earlier, why does.ir glorify a war crime ? It is argued that "area bombing" - flattening whole cities - was contrary to international law. Of course the Germans did it first (eg the Blitz) but we did it worse*. According to international law, attacks which deliberately or recklessly caused civilian casualties were war crimes. But war criminals are judge by the victors, so no cases were heard. * If you don't believe we were worse, compare photos of Hanover and the east end of London. The east end suffered terribly. Hanover was totally destroyed. But that's not what the song is about. It's about defensive actions taken by the raf against Germany. " Actually it wasn't a war crime for us, they did it first. So it was a war crime for them, and they gave up the right they denied others. It's like the ss who executed Canadian prisoners who had written down the order to not take any ss prisoners , and treated an illegal order as if legitimate had given up the right to be treated as prisoners of war. | |||
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