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"I think that the idea of femininity is a class based thing. I was brought up rural farming community, things like being strong and doing finances were highly regarded. The only thing that you had to be able to do well as a female was reproduce offspring. The idea of dressing feminine doesn't come into it when you're covered in poop. I think it's a relatively new concept for lower and lower middle classes when the housewife became a thing in the 50's ish. What it means to me, I really don't know. I am female and yes I like to dress in a pretty dress but I'm also happy in work clothes where outwardly I wear clothes similar to men and still feel feminine. " Class and other things  | |||
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"Im only interested in women who actually act like women so yes they have to act feminine and not masculine which is off putting" what does act feminine mean? I’m an alien - please explain? | |||
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"At the end of the day they’re all made up social constructs and heavy on generalisations best to lean away from man made things rarely brings any good. Be free "They are but they’re also made real. They’re relevant and impact people’s lives. And it’s interesting to understand | |||
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"At the end of the day they’re all made up social constructs and heavy on generalisations best to lean away from man made things rarely brings any good. Be free "I’ve known masculine women and feminine men. My best friend is an absolute tomboy hates anything ‘girly’. I’m not winning any masculinity contests. So I agree. | |||
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"At the end of the day they’re all made up social constructs and heavy on generalisations best to lean away from man made things rarely brings any good. Be free
They are but they’re also made real. They’re relevant and impact people’s lives. And it’s interesting to understand "Yeah, made up stuff has this inconvenient way of becoming incredibly real when it's enforced. Driving on the left side of the road is entirely made up. As is the prohibition on violence against others. | |||
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"Im only interested in women who actually act like women so yes they have to act feminine and not masculine which is off putting what does act feminine mean? I’m an alien - please explain?" You kidding me right? | |||
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"Im only interested in women who actually act like women so yes they have to act feminine and not masculine which is off putting what does act feminine mean? I’m an alien - please explain? You kidding me right?" There have been academic careers spent on working out what masculinity and femininity is, how they come about, if and when they change over time. The OP has academic background in that kind of area. We know, for example, that one of the immutable characteristics of masculinity is love of the passionate, strong colour pink. Blue is much more subdued, and is only for little girls. (That was the case in the early 20th century) | |||
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Ps. Be you. Own being you. Love yourself for who you are. No-one could ever and should ever ask for more | |||
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"I find both feminity and masculinity to be man-made constructs. Read that sentence again and tell me I’m wrong
Ps. Be you. Own being you. Love yourself for who you are. No-one could ever and should ever ask for more "Oh, absolutely. The policing of gender roles - who does it, and why - has long interested me, too. I find myself at a place where I can see the policing and barriers of gender and play with it as I see fit. No doubt my own perception is also shaped by the way I was policed when I was younger, but that gets into the problem of eternal regress, and at some point I'd like to pretend I believe in free will  | |||
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"Im only interested in women who actually act like women so yes they have to act feminine and not masculine which is off putting what does act feminine mean? I’m an alien - please explain? You kidding me right?" He's asking you to explain it to him as if he's an alien. What does acting feminine mean to you? | |||
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"I find both feminity and masculinity to be man-made constructs. Read that sentence again and tell me I’m wrong
Ps. Be you. Own being you. Love yourself for who you are. No-one could ever and should ever ask for more
Oh, absolutely. The policing of gender roles - who does it, and why - has long interested me, too.
I find myself at a place where I can see the policing and barriers of gender and play with it as I see fit. No doubt my own perception is also shaped by the way I was policed when I was younger, but that gets into the problem of eternal regress, and at some point I'd like to pretend I believe in free will "I’ve always been “the black sheep”, “ the one who doesn’t fit in” “the odd-ball” Taken me a while but 1. I’m super cool with that and 2. I love not being a sheep | |||
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"I find both feminity and masculinity to be man-made constructs. Read that sentence again and tell me I’m wrong
Ps. Be you. Own being you. Love yourself for who you are. No-one could ever and should ever ask for more
Oh, absolutely. The policing of gender roles - who does it, and why - has long interested me, too.
I find myself at a place where I can see the policing and barriers of gender and play with it as I see fit. No doubt my own perception is also shaped by the way I was policed when I was younger, but that gets into the problem of eternal regress, and at some point I'd like to pretend I believe in free will
I’ve always been “the black sheep”, “ the one who doesn’t fit in” “the odd-ball”
Taken me a while but 1. I’m super cool with that and 2. I love not being a sheep "I've been called the black sheep for a long time, but I'm not going to pretend I haven't been shaped by my experiences and what I've been taught, even if I disagree with them and have forged my own path from those experiences. | |||
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"I’m interested in femininity too. No surprise I am really interested in definitions of femininity and how different ones have been applied to different groups of women. How Black women have been historically excluded from some traditional definitions of femininity etc. What does it mean to you now? What did it mean to you growing up? What things do you think impacted how you’ve understood it in your lifetime?" Honestly, I never thought about femininity as a thing growing up. I'm not and never have been, a "girly" girl, I was described as a tomboy. It didn't bother me and I didn't feel different or left out or otherwise criticised for the fact I didn't dress in a stereotypically feminine way or because at break time, I preferred to play football with the boys or do extra sports practice (at secondary school, often involving getting wet/muddy). I hated wearing a skirt to school because it was highly impractical and required one to wear tights in the winter that were uncomfortable and got laddered if you did anything other than stand around doing nothing. Boys could wear long trousers all year round and have warm legs, covered in robust fabric. Girls were totally prohibited from wearing anything other than a skirt at my secondary school, there was zero choice. I know I am not feminine by "traditional" standards but I really am not bothered by that. I wear what I want (currently the floral dress per our profile pic) and do not wear makeup or do things like manicures or have my eyebrows waxed. I keep my hair short because I like it and it's practical for my lifestyle. I have worked in many traditionally "male centric" environments throughout my career and have often been the only woman. I prefer it, to be honest. I seem to get on better with men, generally. I wasn't brought up with a focus on gender roles, even though my main role models (my grandparents) probably did mainly fulfill more traditional niches. My Grandma did go out to work once her children went to school and she continued PT until state retirement age. But she also did all cooking and most housework, bar vacuuming. Grandad did all the heavy stuff, DIY, maintenance etc and worked FT. Our gender roles (me and Mr KC) are very blurred if you use traditional norms, but neither of us frankly give two hoots about gender "norms". I'm the main income earner, he does more housework than me (practicalities), and we share the childcare burden approximately equally. I generally do morning school run, he does evening (it's a bit more complicated than that!) I'm the sole car driver and I do all travel planning for the family. I honestly say bollocks to masculinity and femininity because to us, they are meaningless terms that reinforce potentially problematic traditional "norms" on all people, irrespective of biological sex or gender identity. But I think we're proper weirdos. | |||
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" I’ve always been “the black sheep”, “ the one who doesn’t fit in” “the odd-ball” Taken me a while but 1. I’m super cool with that and 2. I love not being a sheep
I've been called the black sheep for a long time, but I'm not going to pretend I haven't been shaped by my experiences and what I've been taught, even if I disagree with them and have forged my own path from those experiences."Agreed
Life really is like a box of chocolates | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good" I'll get my gender reassignment certificate tomorrow, by these standards 
Deary me. | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good" Does that mean that you think men are unkind and boastful? Don't sell yourself short, man. | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good" So men shouldn't be nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectionate, kind or modest? Side note, why look for modest women on a site where the standard is flaps akimbo and open about liking sex? | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good So men shouldn't be nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectionate, kind or modest? Side note, why look for modest women on a site where the standard is flaps akimbo and open about liking sex?" I read modest as "not bragging". Letting the men take all the credit, poor dears are too insensitive to be able to tap into their emotions and find cooperation threatening  | |||
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"It's not something I've ever been able to get my head around, and I studied an awful lot of gender theory at uni. A lot of the stereotypically feminine character traits that society pedals are unrelatable to me, or I see just as frequently displayed by men. Vice versa with masculine traits. In short, I haven't a scooby what feminity actually means to me." Same, Nell. Same. We can be baffled together | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good" You can be assertive without coming across as bossy and aggressive. That doesn’t make a woman any less feminine. | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good You can be assertive without coming across as bossy and aggressive. That doesn’t make a woman any less feminine. " They've actually done research on this. Behaviour in men - workplace - which is described as assertive and confident; in women it's bossy and aggressive. We ladybrains need to know our place  | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good You can be assertive without coming across as bossy and aggressive. That doesn’t make a woman any less feminine. They've actually done research on this. Behaviour in men - workplace - which is described as assertive and confident; in women it's bossy and aggressive. We ladybrains need to know our place "I was once described as 'feisty'.  | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good Does that mean that you think men are unkind and boastful? Don't sell yourself short, man." Why do people love to interpret what I said into something I didnt mean? I said exactly what I mean, nothing to do with men but since you mentioned it yes men can be kind just not a feminine way | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good You can be assertive without coming across as bossy and aggressive. That doesn’t make a woman any less feminine. They've actually done research on this. Behaviour in men - workplace - which is described as assertive and confident; in women it's bossy and aggressive. We ladybrains need to know our place "Ahh, I almost forgot who I was for a second there! My usual “cooperative” behaviour has resumed. No opinions on the matter from me, nooo sir  | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good Does that mean that you think men are unkind and boastful? Don't sell yourself short, man. Why do people love to interpret what I said into something I didnt mean? I said exactly what I mean, nothing to do with men but since you mentioned it yes men can be kind just not a feminine way" What's the difference between masculine kindness and feminine kindness to you? | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good Does that mean that you think men are unkind and boastful? Don't sell yourself short, man. Why do people love to interpret what I said into something I didnt mean? I said exactly what I mean, nothing to do with men but since you mentioned it yes men can be kind just not a feminine way" What do you mean by feminine kindness? What is masculine kindness? What is masculine or feminine modesty? Can men be cooperative? | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good So men shouldn't be nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectionate, kind or modest? Side note, why look for modest women on a site where the standard is flaps akimbo and open about liking sex?" Flaps akimbo were great live, but their sound never really took to the studio. | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good You can be assertive without coming across as bossy and aggressive. That doesn’t make a woman any less feminine. They've actually done research on this. Behaviour in men - workplace - which is described as assertive and confident; in women it's bossy and aggressive. We ladybrains need to know our place "I was going to mention about the difference between assertive/bossy. Pile of poop if you ask me. "Ladylike" when I was younger was being quiet, sitting with my knees together, wearing a pretty dress... Outdated social concepts I think, these days. | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good You can be assertive without coming across as bossy and aggressive. That doesn’t make a woman any less feminine. They've actually done research on this. Behaviour in men - workplace - which is described as assertive and confident; in women it's bossy and aggressive. We ladybrains need to know our place
I was going to mention about the difference between assertive/bossy.
Pile of poop if you ask me.
"Ladylike" when I was younger was being quiet, sitting with my knees together, wearing a pretty dress...
Outdated social concepts I think, these days."Yes. I think we all swim in degrees of this cultural soup, and it's up to us to work out how much of it we've absorbed and how much we're done with. | |||
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"Sugar and spice and all things nice." I'm slugs n snails n puppy dog's tails | |||
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"This thread and many others here really exemplify the lack of critical thinking in our society. Some of the views being expressed are quite clearly skin deep and have had no real thought put into them and yet are held aloft and expressed as a thoroughly researched position. Then when challenged on them rarely can anyone back up their thought process. Just my opinion of course "Please elaborate. The OP asked what femininity meant to us growing up and now. Not for a thoroughly researched position (which the OP himself is more than qualified to achieve without the input of we eejits). | |||
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"This thread and many others here really exemplify the lack of critical thinking in our society. Some of the views being expressed are quite clearly skin deep and have had no real thought put into them and yet are held aloft and expressed as a thoroughly researched position. Then when challenged on them rarely can anyone back up their thought process. Just my opinion of course
Please elaborate. The OP asked what femininity meant to us growing up and now. Not for a thoroughly researched position (which the OP himself is more than qualified to achieve without the input of we eejits). "It wasn’t aimed at the OP more some of the responses | |||
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"What does it mean to you now? What did it mean to you growing up? What things do you think impacted how you’ve understood it in your lifetime?" Interesting question OP and some interesting answers so far. Growing up, it wasn't something that I really thought about. I was never a "girly girl". I loved cars, sports and a friend of mine saw me in a dress for the first time at my wedding. I was brought up to just be me. Although there was an underlying expectation that I would probably get married and have children, I wasn't brought up with any expectation to conform to gender stereotypes. As I've grown older I've become more aware of what femininity is to people in general, and that I don't fall into that definition. All too often femininity is seen as "bad" for men and "good" for women. I see femininity as simply being more like the female form, rather than a role or behaviour trait. A slim man with little or no body hair, is more feminine in my eyes. That's not a negative thing, just an observation. Relating femininity to gender roles and behaviour, is a social construct, and an unhelpful one. | |||
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"If feminine men are bad then so is masculine women" I don't see femininity or masculinity as good or bad. Femininity = female form like includes pregnancy or the vulva Masculinity = male form like includes phallic things | |||
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"Well I grew up 60 years ago. Pink for a girl and blue for a boy. Little dresses with frilly knickers underneath. Dolls to play with..But then my sister came along and as soon as she had her own mind she was a Tom boy. Only wore trousers and played with boys. Helped my grandad on the farm but then so did I. She never grew out of it. She's 56 and never worn make up once in her life even on her wedding day. Her nick name was Fred as she was growing up but noone tried to change her. I was the girly girl that looked after everyone's kids and played with girls toys. As I got older I was feminine through my sexuality and used that in my favour. I think as I've been an adult I used sex in a famine way to get a man as I always played the feminine role. I bought my son up completely different. zthere was only me and him. He had unisex toys and what ever he gravited to, he did chores in the house. Now as an adult he does 50% of everything in the house from housework financially and childcare. Which once would have been seen as feminine. I think many men now aways are equally doing things that where once considered feminine. Same as women do what was once perceived as masculine which is for the other thread. I do think there is becoming less of gender differences from when I was born but still away to go" that's one way to completely screw up a kid's mind. Congratulations. | |||
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"Well I grew up 60 years ago. Pink for a girl and blue for a boy. Little dresses with frilly knickers underneath. Dolls to play with..But then my sister came along and as soon as she had her own mind she was a Tom boy. Only wore trousers and played with boys. Helped my grandad on the farm but then so did I. She never grew out of it. She's 56 and never worn make up once in her life even on her wedding day. Her nick name was Fred as she was growing up but noone tried to change her. I was the girly girl that looked after everyone's kids and played with girls toys. As I got older I was feminine through my sexuality and used that in my favour. I think as I've been an adult I used sex in a famine way to get a man as I always played the feminine role. I bought my son up completely different. zthere was only me and him. He had unisex toys and what ever he gravited to, he did chores in the house. Now as an adult he does 50% of everything in the house from housework financially and childcare. Which once would have been seen as feminine. I think many men now aways are equally doing things that where once considered feminine. Same as women do what was once perceived as masculine which is for the other thread. I do think there is becoming less of gender differences from when I was born but still away to go that's one way to completely screw up a kid's mind. Congratulations." I think it's the perfect way to bring up a child. Women are so much more than just homemakers and breeders. Men are so much more than a money maker or a sperm bank. | |||
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"Well I grew up 60 years ago. Pink for a girl and blue for a boy. Little dresses with frilly knickers underneath. Dolls to play with..But then my sister came along and as soon as she had her own mind she was a Tom boy. Only wore trousers and played with boys. Helped my grandad on the farm but then so did I. She never grew out of it. She's 56 and never worn make up once in her life even on her wedding day. Her nick name was Fred as she was growing up but noone tried to change her. I was the girly girl that looked after everyone's kids and played with girls toys. As I got older I was feminine through my sexuality and used that in my favour. I think as I've been an adult I used sex in a famine way to get a man as I always played the feminine role. I bought my son up completely different. zthere was only me and him. He had unisex toys and what ever he gravited to, he did chores in the house. Now as an adult he does 50% of everything in the house from housework financially and childcare. Which once would have been seen as feminine. I think many men now aways are equally doing things that where once considered feminine. Same as women do what was once perceived as masculine which is for the other thread. I do think there is becoming less of gender differences from when I was born but still away to go that's one way to completely screw up a kid's mind. Congratulations." What is? | |||
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"that's one way to completely screw up a kid's mind. Congratulations." Are you a parent?  | |||
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"Well I grew up 60 years ago. Pink for a girl and blue for a boy. Little dresses with frilly knickers underneath. Dolls to play with..But then my sister came along and as soon as she had her own mind she was a Tom boy. Only wore trousers and played with boys. Helped my grandad on the farm but then so did I. She never grew out of it. She's 56 and never worn make up once in her life even on her wedding day. Her nick name was Fred as she was growing up but noone tried to change her. I was the girly girl that looked after everyone's kids and played with girls toys. As I got older I was feminine through my sexuality and used that in my favour. I think as I've been an adult I used sex in a famine way to get a man as I always played the feminine role. I bought my son up completely different. zthere was only me and him. He had unisex toys and what ever he gravited to, he did chores in the house. Now as an adult he does 50% of everything in the house from housework financially and childcare. Which once would have been seen as feminine. I think many men now aways are equally doing things that where once considered feminine. Same as women do what was once perceived as masculine which is for the other thread. I do think there is becoming less of gender differences from when I was born but still away to go that's one way to completely screw up a kid's mind. Congratulations." what are you talking about | |||
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"Well I grew up 60 years ago. Pink for a girl and blue for a boy. Little dresses with frilly knickers underneath. Dolls to play with..But then my sister came along and as soon as she had her own mind she was a Tom boy. Only wore trousers and played with boys. Helped my grandad on the farm but then so did I. She never grew out of it. She's 56 and never worn make up once in her life even on her wedding day. Her nick name was Fred as she was growing up but noone tried to change her. I was the girly girl that looked after everyone's kids and played with girls toys. As I got older I was feminine through my sexuality and used that in my favour. I think as I've been an adult I used sex in a famine way to get a man as I always played the feminine role. I bought my son up completely different. zthere was only me and him. He had unisex toys and what ever he gravited to, he did chores in the house. Now as an adult he does 50% of everything in the house from housework financially and childcare. Which once would have been seen as feminine. I think many men now aways are equally doing things that where once considered feminine. Same as women do what was once perceived as masculine which is for the other thread. I do think there is becoming less of gender differences from when I was born but still away to go that's one way to completely screw up a kid's mind. Congratulations.what are you talking about" I think he has rather "traditional" ideas with regard to the roles of men and women in society. | |||
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"If feminine men are bad then so is masculine women" Androgynous women are my favourite | |||
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"I think that the idea of femininity is a class based thing. I was brought up rural farming community, things like being strong and doing finances were highly regarded. The only thing that you had to be able to do well as a female was reproduce offspring. The idea of dressing feminine doesn't come into it when you're covered in poop. I think it's a relatively new concept for lower and lower middle classes when the housewife became a thing in the 50's ish. What it means to me, I really don't know. I am female and yes I like to dress in a pretty dress but I'm also happy in work clothes where outwardly I wear clothes similar to men and still feel feminine. " Very much agree with this vibe
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good" Whilst you are correct about the feminine traits above, both men and women have masculine and feminine energy in them. So, women can have masculine energy, and men can have feminine energy, and it should be balanced. | |||
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"Let's not,we may wake Satan." Hail Satan!
https://g.co/kgs/pJCqFos | |||
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"Well to me being feminine is being nurturing, sensitive supportive, gentle, warm, cooperative, affectinate, kind and modest Dont like women who act bossy and aggressive as its masculine traits not good I'll get my gender reassignment certificate tomorrow, by these standards
Deary me. "You and me both. | |||
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"Well I grew up 60 years ago. Pink for a girl and blue for a boy. Little dresses with frilly knickers underneath. Dolls to play with..But then my sister came along and as soon as she had her own mind she was a Tom boy. Only wore trousers and played with boys. Helped my grandad on the farm but then so did I. She never grew out of it. She's 56 and never worn make up once in her life even on her wedding day. Her nick name was Fred as she was growing up but noone tried to change her. I was the girly girl that looked after everyone's kids and played with girls toys. As I got older I was feminine through my sexuality and used that in my favour. I think as I've been an adult I used sex in a famine way to get a man as I always played the feminine role. I bought my son up completely different. zthere was only me and him. He had unisex toys and what ever he gravited to, he did chores in the house. Now as an adult he does 50% of everything in the house from housework financially and childcare. Which once would have been seen as feminine. I think many men now aways are equally doing things that where once considered feminine. Same as women do what was once perceived as masculine which is for the other thread. I do think there is becoming less of gender differences from when I was born but still away to go that's one way to completely screw up a kid's mind. Congratulations." Incell alert. Green button is your friend | |||
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"Well I grew up 60 years ago. Pink for a girl and blue for a boy. Little dresses with frilly knickers underneath. Dolls to play with..But then my sister came along and as soon as she had her own mind she was a Tom boy. Only wore trousers and played with boys. Helped my grandad on the farm but then so did I. She never grew out of it. She's 56 and never worn make up once in her life even on her wedding day. Her nick name was Fred as she was growing up but noone tried to change her. I was the girly girl that looked after everyone's kids and played with girls toys. As I got older I was feminine through my sexuality and used that in my favour. I think as I've been an adult I used sex in a famine way to get a man as I always played the feminine role. I bought my son up completely different. zthere was only me and him. He had unisex toys and what ever he gravited to, he did chores in the house. Now as an adult he does 50% of everything in the house from housework financially and childcare. Which once would have been seen as feminine. I think many men now aways are equally doing things that where once considered feminine. Same as women do what was once perceived as masculine which is for the other thread. I do think there is becoming less of gender differences from when I was born but still away to go that's one way to completely screw up a kid's mind. Congratulations." What, allowing him freedom of choice, rather than forcing him to conform…… ok then | |||
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