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"I sometimes wonder if this age of introspection helps or hinders mental health, particularly for children. As for schools - I don't how you best measure whether a school is truly 'failing' in such a complex area. One way or the other it does seem that children's (and adults for that matter)needs appear to be becoming increasingly complex." due to the amount of children who are “lost” who are unaccounted for | |||
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"It's very difficult for a school with hundreds of pupils in it to deliver mental health care. Individual teachers and staff may notice a student with mental health difficulties (they might not too) but these things can be very well hidden. The onus in my opinion should be on parents, carers, wider family and friends 'in conjunction ' with schools. I don't think it's fair to ask the education system to educate and provide health care. We don't send our kids to hospital to learn maths " I view schools as a safety net. Not like, they have to provide everything. But they're a place kids have to go and where problems might be noticed. In my ideal world school staff would report to appropriate authorities, who would be able to take care of it. ("It" being counselling, food, whatever) I read something recently - can't remember where - that suggested that over half of children don't always feel safe at school. That broke my heart. | |||
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"It's very difficult for a school with hundreds of pupils in it to deliver mental health care. Individual teachers and staff may notice a student with mental health difficulties (they might not too) but these things can be very well hidden. The onus in my opinion should be on parents, carers, wider family and friends 'in conjunction ' with schools. I don't think it's fair to ask the education system to educate and provide health care. We don't send our kids to hospital to learn maths I view schools as a safety net. Not like, they have to provide everything. But they're a place kids have to go and where problems might be noticed. In my ideal world school staff would report to appropriate authorities, who would be able to take care of it. ("It" being counselling, food, whatever) I read something recently - can't remember where - that suggested that over half of children don't always feel safe at school. That broke my heart." From the experience I have I'd say that it's well over half. All staff in many educational establishments are given training in safeguarding with the tools to spot problems and where to report it to. This is great on paper. It reassures the wider public that things are in place. The reality is quite different but isn't it always. Does any parent want their kid to be in a classroom where one student makes it difficult for the others to learn. Where for their safety the majority of the class are evacuated regularly while one student is dealt with? | |||
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"It's very difficult for a school with hundreds of pupils in it to deliver mental health care. Individual teachers and staff may notice a student with mental health difficulties (they might not too) but these things can be very well hidden. The onus in my opinion should be on parents, carers, wider family and friends 'in conjunction ' with schools. I don't think it's fair to ask the education system to educate and provide health care. We don't send our kids to hospital to learn maths I view schools as a safety net. Not like, they have to provide everything. But they're a place kids have to go and where problems might be noticed. In my ideal world school staff would report to appropriate authorities, who would be able to take care of it. ("It" being counselling, food, whatever) I read something recently - can't remember where - that suggested that over half of children don't always feel safe at school. That broke my heart. From the experience I have I'd say that it's well over half. All staff in many educational establishments are given training in safeguarding with the tools to spot problems and where to report it to. This is great on paper. It reassures the wider public that things are in place. The reality is quite different but isn't it always. Does any parent want their kid to be in a classroom where one student makes it difficult for the others to learn. Where for their safety the majority of the class are evacuated regularly while one student is dealt with?" The thing I read, it was something like three in five feel unsafe at school at some point. I certainly relate to that - like the above poster, I was one of those (not known at the time) ASD kids who fell through the cracks. I know it doesn't work all that well, hence me saying it was an "ideal". I think in some ways we're doing better - I often think of the little boy who was simply expelled from my grade when I was five and hope he's alright (even though I was one of his targets, I can detach from that, given how long ago it was). But the systems that would be needed to provide a genuine safety net are failing - for everyone, but especially for children. | |||
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"It's very difficult for a school with hundreds of pupils in it to deliver mental health care. Individual teachers and staff may notice a student with mental health difficulties (they might not too) but these things can be very well hidden. The onus in my opinion should be on parents, carers, wider family and friends 'in conjunction ' with schools. I don't think it's fair to ask the education system to educate and provide health care. We don't send our kids to hospital to learn maths I view schools as a safety net. Not like, they have to provide everything. But they're a place kids have to go and where problems might be noticed. In my ideal world school staff would report to appropriate authorities, who would be able to take care of it. ("It" being counselling, food, whatever) I read something recently - can't remember where - that suggested that over half of children don't always feel safe at school. That broke my heart. From the experience I have I'd say that it's well over half. All staff in many educational establishments are given training in safeguarding with the tools to spot problems and where to report it to. This is great on paper. It reassures the wider public that things are in place. The reality is quite different but isn't it always. Does any parent want their kid to be in a classroom where one student makes it difficult for the others to learn. Where for their safety the majority of the class are evacuated regularly while one student is dealt with? The thing I read, it was something like three in five feel unsafe at school at some point. I certainly relate to that - like the above poster, I was one of those (not known at the time) ASD kids who fell through the cracks. I know it doesn't work all that well, hence me saying it was an "ideal". I think in some ways we're doing better - I often think of the little boy who was simply expelled from my grade when I was five and hope he's alright (even though I was one of his targets, I can detach from that, given how long ago it was). But the systems that would be needed to provide a genuine safety net are failing - for everyone, but especially for children." Yep. | |||
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"I sometimes wonder if this age of introspection helps or hinders mental health, particularly for children. As for schools - I don't how you best measure whether a school is truly 'failing' in such a complex area. One way or the other it does seem that children's (and adults for that matter)needs appear to be becoming increasingly complex." Yes the government or more importantly the pm at the time made a huge error of decision making and planning that’s created a chain of impact affecting young people and adults in so many ways and placing huge demand on schools, nhs, services and parents / families I don’t think schools can fix this no matter how much money they have. I have friends teaching in private schools facing the sane issues. My own kids even impacted at top universities with huge budgets. Kids graduating post COVID, I see a lot of gaps as an employer, and risks , prefer to play safe and go for 35 + recruits | |||
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"Both my children are neurodiverse, but as there was no additional learning need they were denied access through the NHS for assessment. My elder as a result is going through anxiety and depression, self harm and two suicide attempts of which I am aware. I queried ASD all through her secondary school life, and was told it was 'just' the anxiety. CAMHS CPN told me she didn't know enough about ASD. The younger one, I am hopeful to have found an avenue to explore which may lead to an assessment. I have learned a lot from the first experience. Schools are getting better as wellbeing, but if a child is really suffering, there is a severe lack of support from my experience. I hope others have better experiences. There must be some success stories. " Similar experiences, CAHMS are no help , even NHS crisis team are of limited help. Find your kids good therapists , you know a good one by the changes that begin to happen almost immediately, include it in your budget , make it a priority. | |||
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"Both my children are neurodiverse, but as there was no additional learning need they were denied access through the NHS for assessment. My elder as a result is going through anxiety and depression, self harm and two suicide attempts of which I am aware. I queried ASD all through her secondary school life, and was told it was 'just' the anxiety. CAMHS CPN told me she didn't know enough about ASD. The younger one, I am hopeful to have found an avenue to explore which may lead to an assessment. I have learned a lot from the first experience. Schools are getting better as wellbeing, but if a child is really suffering, there is a severe lack of support from my experience. I hope others have better experiences. There must be some success stories. Similar experiences, CAHMS are no help , even NHS crisis team are of limited help. Find your kids good therapists , you know a good one by the changes that begin to happen almost immediately, include it in your budget , make it a priority. " and they are hard to find - i know a lot of therapists, few will work with children and those that do are inundated and could easily have long waiting lists but choose not to have waiting lists as it indicates that they may be able to see clients soon and that may not be the reality . also cost implications - most private therapists are betweeen £50 - £60 a session, and weekly sessions are advisable, not many can afford £200 a month on therapy | |||
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"wow - gone are the days where schools just taught subjects and the children went for the day. Now they have huge pastoral teams, one to one, send, and are still not able to keep up with the demand. They are a welfare centre for children that have personal issues or issues at home, they can be young carers or from homes with DV or sexual abuse the list is endless. The staff in my humble opinion dont get all the training to be able to deal with all the different areas that they are trying to deal with and they certainly dont get the funding to be able to access service to support the children. Many now have counsellors to help and they are overwhelmed with the numbers that require their services and again this is resulting in waiting lists within the schools to get this intervention. There are organisations that are trying to support those children that are unable to attend school or struggling with attendance, but again the referrals are huge and each person can only work with a limited number of children at a time to enable that work to be effective. There are insufficient specialist schools for children that are not able to manage in main stream for whatever reason. the list goes on. Yes the children are being failed but by whom? Throw more money at it and employ more people? to get an ECHP can take years, to get a proper send diagnosis takes forever - why because of the numbers that they are trying to get through. I dont know what the answer is but the whole process needs a shake up, its not fit for purpose and antiquated 6" Schools & A&E are the front lines facing the concequences of austerity. Gone are the child & family centres, community centres, youth clubs, the financial/ resource pressure on scouts/ brownies etc, parents both working full time just to stay afloat, the over all cost of children means parents working more to sustain, facing cost of living stresses - it's not cracks, it's the whole system that's failing children. Add on the anxiety from COVID isolation during development years.. it all exacerbates the issues. I think a holistic approach is needed that encompasses community, home/parent, school areas to tackle the issues & it's unfair to expect 1 area to identify/ fix it.. | |||
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FFS the way people act it's like the world didn't exist pre lockdown and children throughout history have never faced adversity.
As harsh as it sounds sometimes we do have to struggle to build strength and understanding of how to cope with life as we grow up.
Children are a lot tougher that you think and by taking away their ability to problem solved and deal with issues it creates bigger problems down the line.
Let kids be kids stop trying to make them grow up so fast.
I AM NOT saying ignore those in dire need of help but let's be a bit realistic funding just isn't there for the requirements. | |||
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"If we are to believe what we are told every other child requires mental health support, going by that logic let's forget about teaching and just therapise them until they are 18 I'm sure they will all grow up fully adjusted
FFS the way people act it's like the world didn't exist pre lockdown and children throughout history have never faced adversity.
As harsh as it sounds sometimes we do have to struggle to build strength and understanding of how to cope with life as we grow up.
Children are a lot tougher that you think and by taking away their ability to problem solved and deal with issues it creates bigger problems down the line.
Let kids be kids stop trying to make them grow up so fast.
I AM NOT saying ignore those in dire need of help but let's be a bit realistic funding just isn't there for the requirements."yea i agree with you - but this inability to problem solve and deal with issues starts young - kids are more often than not stuffed in front of the electronic babysitter to entertain them. they dont go to the park , they dont fall out of trees or get into mischief with friends on their bikes ... | |||
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"If we are to believe what we are told every other child requires mental health support, going by that logic let's forget about teaching and just therapise them until they are 18 I'm sure they will all grow up fully adjusted
FFS the way people act it's like the world didn't exist pre lockdown and children throughout history have never faced adversity.
As harsh as it sounds sometimes we do have to struggle to build strength and understanding of how to cope with life as we grow up.
Children are a lot tougher that you think and by taking away their ability to problem solved and deal with issues it creates bigger problems down the line.
Let kids be kids stop trying to make them grow up so fast.
I AM NOT saying ignore those in dire need of help but let's be a bit realistic funding just isn't there for the requirements."Yup. We should go back to when I was at school and was dreaming about suicide when I was seven. That didn't leave me with fucking crippling trauma and problems that can't be addressed. Just whack 'em around the head, it'll be fine. | |||
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"If we are to believe what we are told every other child requires mental health support, going by that logic let's forget about teaching and just therapise them until they are 18 I'm sure they will all grow up fully adjusted
FFS the way people act it's like the world didn't exist pre lockdown and children throughout history have never faced adversity.
As harsh as it sounds sometimes we do have to struggle to build strength and understanding of how to cope with life as we grow up.
Children are a lot tougher that you think and by taking away their ability to problem solved and deal with issues it creates bigger problems down the line.
Let kids be kids stop trying to make them grow up so fast.
I AM NOT saying ignore those in dire need of help but let's be a bit realistic funding just isn't there for the requirements.
yea i agree with you - but this inability to problem solve and deal with issues starts young - kids are more often than not stuffed in front of the electronic babysitter to entertain them. they dont go to the park , they dont fall out of trees or get into mischief with friends on their bikes ... "And also, thankfully, there is better understanding and acceptance of mental health and neurodiversity for it to be identified and acted upon. | |||
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"If we are to believe what we are told every other child requires mental health support, going by that logic let's forget about teaching and just therapise them until they are 18 I'm sure they will all grow up fully adjusted
FFS the way people act it's like the world didn't exist pre lockdown and children throughout history have never faced adversity.
As harsh as it sounds sometimes we do have to struggle to build strength and understanding of how to cope with life as we grow up.
Children are a lot tougher that you think and by taking away their ability to problem solved and deal with issues it creates bigger problems down the line.
Let kids be kids stop trying to make them grow up so fast.
I AM NOT saying ignore those in dire need of help but let's be a bit realistic funding just isn't there for the requirements.
yea i agree with you - but this inability to problem solve and deal with issues starts young - kids are more often than not stuffed in front of the electronic babysitter to entertain them. they dont go to the park , they dont fall out of trees or get into mischief with friends on their bikes ...
And also, thankfully, there is better understanding and acceptance of mental health and neurodiversity for it to be identified and acted upon. "its my field of work - i had resigned and hoped to go a different way but have been pulled back into it - bowing out as this is my daily stuff - fab is my escapism from all that is crap  | |||
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"If we are to believe what we are told every other child requires mental health support, going by that logic let's forget about teaching and just therapise them until they are 18 I'm sure they will all grow up fully adjusted
FFS the way people act it's like the world didn't exist pre lockdown and children throughout history have never faced adversity.
As harsh as it sounds sometimes we do have to struggle to build strength and understanding of how to cope with life as we grow up.
Children are a lot tougher that you think and by taking away their ability to problem solved and deal with issues it creates bigger problems down the line.
Let kids be kids stop trying to make them grow up so fast.
I AM NOT saying ignore those in dire need of help but let's be a bit realistic funding just isn't there for the requirements.
yea i agree with you - but this inability to problem solve and deal with issues starts young - kids are more often than not stuffed in front of the electronic babysitter to entertain them. they dont go to the park , they dont fall out of trees or get into mischief with friends on their bikes ...
And also, thankfully, there is better understanding and acceptance of mental health and neurodiversity for it to be identified and acted upon. "Yes. People who talk about the good old days... apart from resourcing issues, it wasn't better, it was much worse. At least for those of us who needed help. I was a bright kid, so the fact that little toerags made me so stressed out that I went to A&E with it before my tenth birthday... meh. Forget the retard, reward the toerags for teaching the retard that life is pain. That's what we mean by let kids be kids, isn't it? Let the "normal" ones do whatever the fuck they want, so long as they don't have to give a shit about the wellbeing of their peers? | |||
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"Schools do make referrals where appropriate along with an ever expanding list of other things. " From my experience, referrals are made by education if a child is demonstrating an additional learning need, not meeting expected developmental or educational expectations for their age, or disruptive in class. There is wellbeing support for the children who have emotional needs. However, if those emotional needs are a result of, for example, ND, but the child is not disruptive (masking) and meeting educational and developmental targets (what used to be themed high functioning), then the school does not submit referrals, as there is nothing, academically, to address. Parents are left frustrated, knowing their child/ren need specialist support, but have nowhere to go. The child/ren feel devalued, their feelings invalidated, adding to the emotional disturbance they already feel. | |||
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"Having been a teacher myself for 16 years. I've taught in schools all over Europe. I still keep in touch with people I've worked with. It seems that children in other countries, are not experiencing the problems that the British children are. I wonder why that is? " Please ask them, and feed back. | |||
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"Schools do make referrals where appropriate along with an ever expanding list of other things. From my experience, referrals are made by education if a child is demonstrating an additional learning need, not meeting expected developmental or educational expectations for their age, or disruptive in class. There is wellbeing support for the children who have emotional needs. However, if those emotional needs are a result of, for example, ND, but the child is not disruptive (masking) and meeting educational and developmental targets (what used to be themed high functioning), then the school does not submit referrals, as there is nothing, academically, to address. Parents are left frustrated, knowing their child/ren need specialist support, but have nowhere to go. The child/ren feel devalued, their feelings invalidated, adding to the emotional disturbance they already feel. " Let's add reading minds to that ever expanding list for teachers. | |||
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" Let's add reading minds to that ever expanding list for teachers. " As I'm talking from my own experience, concerns were/have been raised with teachers and the ALNCos, so no mind reading required. Bottom line is that if there's no additional learning need, the education system can't help. The route to assessment where I live requires the school to submit evidence of the child's behaviour, as well as that of the parent, but to progress to assessment, there has to be an additional learning need. Those children who mask and meet the academic expectations will get wellbeing support, but will be denied the opportunity for assessment and potential diagnosis. It's the system and access to assessment/diagnosis that is flawed. Having been through it once, I have anticipated the obstacles that I and my younger one will face and how to address them. | |||
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"So many schools are failing children and teenagers since lockdown in mental health support safeguarding and wellbeing especially the grammar school system. " Why do you say especially the grammar school system ? | |||
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"Having been a teacher myself for 16 years. I've taught in schools all over Europe. I still keep in touch with people I've worked with. It seems that children in other countries, are not experiencing the problems that the British children are. I wonder why that is? " Not European, but I know we get a huge proportion of students into our centre who have undiagnosed additional learning needs. Why undiagnosed? Because their country doesn't believe the issue exists or because of stigma in their culture. The numbers are growing massively each year. | |||
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"Having been through it once, I have anticipated the obstacles that I and my younger one will face and how to address them. " What obstacles are you anticipating? | |||
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" Having been through it once, I have anticipated the obstacles that I and my younger one will face and how to address them. What obstacles are you anticipating?" That through the existing route, my younger won't meet the criteria for assessment, as they are meeting expected educational targets and mask while in school. Already been turned down once, second referral has been submitted. I'm anticipating that will be turned down also. Ask me in 6 months. That's how long the first referral took to be discussed at panel. | |||
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