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CRB Checks

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I recently changed jobs and had to be CRB checked enhanced, was honest about a silly incident when I was 17 and got the job.

I work with volunteers who do the same job as me but don't require a CRB check and got me thinking is this right?

Discuss

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Depends what they are doing i have to do them on all of our staff and dependant on what offences come up they can't work.

So tend to try get them done before they start working had the odd one come up just after and had to let them go as they have lied on the application

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have done volunteer work a few times and had to be checked so don't understand this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think even if you are volunteering they need to have a CRB check.. or DBS as they are now known as

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think volunteers and paid workers alike should have the same checks

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I think volunteers and paid workers alike should have the same checks "

Totally agree too wont name the organisation but the volunteers are not so just wondered and yes I will be taking it up my manager

Thanks for the response

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Volunteers do require CRB checks.

Anyone working with children, vulnerable people etc whether paid or not are legally required to have one before they can start their position...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All depends on why the CRB checks are required. if there is no issue of risk in what the volunteers are doing then why do they need a check? If there is in 99% of cases then they need one anyway, problem is CRB is not free, takes time, and volunteers are sometimes hard to find.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I recently changed jobs and had to be CRB checked enhanced, was honest about a silly incident when I was 17 and got the job.

I work with volunteers who do the same job as me but don't require a CRB check and got me thinking is this right?

Discuss"

How come they don't need a CRB check? Bit odd...

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By *H.coupleCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh


"All depends on why the CRB checks are required. if there is no issue of risk in what the volunteers are doing then why do they need a check? If there is in 99% of cases then they need one anyway, problem is CRB is not free, takes time, and volunteers are sometimes hard to find."

good point, even a stupid d*unken scrap can make you fail a CRB check.

I (mr) am sitting well and truly on the fence on this one, part of me says everyone should get CRB checked another part of me says its counter productive

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats a bit odd.. I think if they are doing a job that entails a CBR then volunteer or paid should have the same checks!

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By *ethany10Couple
over a year ago

falkirk

I agree with CRB checks, the only problem is that it only shows something up if you have been caught. Not a 100% guarantee that the person is not a threat to children or vulnerable people. This was highlighted several times with volunteers in a charity I worked for some years ago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I agree with CRB checks, the only problem is that it only shows something up if you have been caught. Not a 100% guarantee that the person is not a threat to children or vulnerable people. This was highlighted several times with volunteers in a charity I worked for some years ago."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have worked in places where I have been CRB checked and others havnt. The people who had not been CRB checked had to be supervised at all times by someone who had.

I also remember working through an agency somewhere being CRB checked and being unsupervised but the moment I joined the place full time I had to be supervised until my new CRB check came through. My agency CRB was still in date but they could not use it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rehabilitation of offenders act can be brought into play if an organisation chooses to not employ you for past crimes or misdemeanours.

Not that you would get them to admit that was the reason to not employ of course.

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By *udemattMan
over a year ago

Tarporley

Volunteers don't have to be checked as long as they are never left alone with children/vulnerable adults and are supervised but someone who is checked and done the relevant courses.

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By *ENDAROOSCouple
over a year ago

South West London / Surrey


"I recently changed jobs and had to be CRB checked enhanced, was honest about a silly incident when I was 17 and got the job.

I work with volunteers who do the same job as me but don't require a CRB check and got me thinking is this right?

Discuss"

No I don't think it is right...where I work all staff, paid and volunteers are all CRB checked.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It depends on the situation.. If the volunteers have to always be with a paid member of staff who r crb checked then that's fine..

But if volunteers are left alone with the vulnerable people then they need to be crb checked

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Google CRB checks for volenters ( is that spelt right ) , some good information there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Google CRB checks for volenters ( is that spelt right ) , some good information there "

No it isn't volountes

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville


"I recently changed jobs and had to be CRB checked enhanced, was honest about a silly incident when I was 17 and got the job.

I work with volunteers who do the same job as me but don't require a CRB check and got me thinking is this right?

Discuss"

villans are so sexy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Google CRB checks for volenters ( is that spelt right ) , some good information there

No it isn't volountes "

Or is it volunteers Ok I'm trying please don't shoot me

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By *he Happy ManMan
over a year ago

Merseyside

It's not right. For every volunteer job I have done I have had a CRB done.

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By *xodussxMan
over a year ago

sheffield

Aren't we a bit CRB mad in this country?

What I always want to know is who check the CRB of those who check our's?????

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester

CRB checks are at 2 stage levels the general CRB is basic at the least and is done for those who will work under the supervision of others with children or vulnerable adults.

Enhanced CRB checks are for those who will be working unsupervised with children or vulnerable adults and therefore will not be monitored and given unrestricted access with these vulnerable groups.

As a teacher I have worked with classes from 8 yrs to 18yrs old, I was alone with these kids/young adults for upto 6 hours a day, in evening detention I could have from 1 to 12 students with me in the same room so there has to be a level of trust between the school and the parents that those adults given authority over their children were trustable.

As a parent I feel more happy that the person spending time with my kids were checked out and deemed suitable rather than just anyone being given access to them.

Student support/ teaching assistants/ volunteers, get supervised access and therefore their crb check is the lower ranked check on suitability.

Its a pity that the catholic church did not perform a 3 yearly check on their priests as this would have meant less problems with errant priests causing them accute embarrassment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So will I fail a CRB check if I've gotta criminal record even one that's nothing to do with kids/vulnerable people??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We sometimes have people come to us with copies that were done recently but we cant use them we need to do our own.

Maybe like someone else said they are supervised at all times,and if its not working with children or vulnerable people that could be why.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A lot of it has to do with insurance potential claims along with the chance someone unsuitable is with vulnerable people. I think if the job needs one doing then fair enough but I don't see the need for every job out there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I worked as a nursery attendant for 2 years and had a new crb every 6 months. volunteers were crb checked but at a basic level and were not allowed to be left alone with the children. in this sense it does make you feel safer with people looking after children and vulnerable adults. i have a criminal record for theft when i was a teenager and it to this day has never shown on a crb but i have always been honest about it. personally i think that volunteers should at least have a basic crb if a paid member of staff has to have an enhanced one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"All depends on why the CRB checks are required. if there is no issue of risk in what the volunteers are doing then why do they need a check? If there is in 99% of cases then they need one anyway, problem is CRB is not free, takes time, and volunteers are sometimes hard to find.

good point, even a stupid d*unken scrap can make you fail a CRB check.

I (mr) am sitting well and truly on the fence on this one, part of me says everyone should get CRB checked another part of me says its counter productive"

You can't "fail" a CRB check - all it does is provide details, it's up to the employer to make a decision based on that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ive just applied for some voluntary work at my local hospital. I have to have a CRB check. it seems you have to have one before they even give you an interview.

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By *allen MadonnaWoman
over a year ago

In my own little world

Jimmy Saville was a volunteer

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By *adgeeMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Jimmy Saville was a volunteer"

Not something I'd choose to call him!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All my staff, including cleaning staff require CRB checks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i have 2 school jobs. Am employed by a council and one job is a offshoot company of the same council but I have to have 2 separate crb checks. And yes volunteers have to have checks, everyone who said that on here is right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 26/03/13 14:31:27]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I recently changed jobs and had to be CRB checked enhanced, was honest about a silly incident when I was 17 and got the job.

I work with volunteers who do the same job as me but don't require a CRB check and got me thinking is this right?

Discuss"

depends what the job is, if the job required a CRB everyone needs one wether they get paid or not other wise they are breaking the law

I do voluntary work with kids on probation but I still needed a CRB even tho im not paid

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jimmy Saville was a volunteer"

And the system falls down! IF he was alive and applied for a job then CRB would still show him as cleared, no prosecution = no record. As things stand he is not guilty of anything, we only know of the allegations because he was famous.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have a friend who volunteered at a local cubs group to see a little more of his son. He had to be CRBed and pay himself.

Then mum moved his lad to a different cubs!

Also don't new cleaners in schools have to shadow another cleaner until their CRB is Oked?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have 2 crb certificates Dec 2011, Oct 2012 which last 3 years. I registered with another company and now have to get another one. This is another £56 I have to pay and will have 3 crb certificates all valid lol its time we had a database where companies can check to see if you are checked or not and stop this money making machine cause only one benefiting is the crb people. x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"money making machine cause only one benefiting is the crb people. x"

ooh you are not suggesting another stealth tax there are you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The reason you need one for each job or new position is you could have offended/been convicted of an offence since the last CRB was carried out. It's a far from perfect system but it works to a degree. Personally I think employers should be able to access a database and get up to date info on potential new employees. But only if they'll be working with vulnerable groups.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The reason you need one for each job or new position is you could have offended/been convicted of an offence since the last CRB was carried out. It's a far from perfect system but it works to a degree. Personally I think employers should be able to access a database and get up to date info on potential new employees. But only if they'll be working with vulnerable groups."

Why on earth should employers have access to info o potential employees way too risky as open to abuse plus until the potential is veing actually being offered its none of anyone ekses business

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have at least 6. (Lost count a bit) and one or two are now out of date. I have never paid for one. Puts me off an employer if they ask me to pay. especially if agency with no guaranteed hours.

A few agencies have given me work (cover supervisor in secondary schools) without CRBing me.

There's also supposed to be something called portability but not all CRBs are good for it apparently. Local councils are supposed to be the best for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The reason you need one for each job or new position is you could have offended/been convicted of an offence since the last CRB was carried out. It's a far from perfect system but it works to a degree. Personally I think employers should be able to access a database and get up to date info on potential new employees. But only if they'll be working with vulnerable groups.

Why on earth should employers have access to info o potential employees way too risky as open to abuse plus until the potential is veing actually being offered its none of anyone ekses business "

I'm only talking about employers that cater for high risk groups. It shouldn't be open to just any employer and would require registration etc.

I once had someone wait for 16 weeks for their CRB to come back. The reason was it had to be reviewed by a senior police officer. When it came back the only thing on it was they'd been found NOT guilty for a minor offence. I couldn't employ that person for that whole time and it really was for no good reason.

Having a properly regulated and updated database would have cut all that out, would have been cheaper and massively more efficient.

Benefits all round...

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By *hobos46Man
over a year ago

Royston

So I think we've established that CRB checks (and they have changed the name recently) are required for anybody having unsupervised access to vulnerable people (the young, the old, the people who are physically or mentally hadicapped, people with learning difficulties). I have no idea why the volunteers at the O/P's firm aren't checked, but I would suggest that if they have such access they are required by law to be checked.

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814


"All depends on why the CRB checks are required. if there is no issue of risk in what the volunteers are doing then why do they need a check? If there is in 99% of cases then they need one anyway, problem is CRB is not free, takes time, and volunteers are sometimes hard to find."

Its free for volunteers...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The reason you need one for each job or new position is you could have offended/been convicted of an offence since the last CRB was carried out. It's a far from perfect system but it works to a degree. Personally I think employers should be able to access a database and get up to date info on potential new employees. But only if they'll be working with vulnerable groups.

Why on earth should employers have access to info o potential employees way too risky as open to abuse plus until the potential is veing actually being offered its none of anyone ekses business

I'm only talking about employers that cater for high risk groups. It shouldn't be open to just any employer and would require registration etc.

I once had someone wait for 16 weeks for their CRB to come back. The reason was it had to be reviewed by a senior police officer. When it came back the only thing on it was they'd been found NOT guilty for a minor offence. I couldn't employ that person for that whole time and it really was for no good reason.

Having a properly regulated and updated database would have cut all that out, would have been cheaper and massively more efficient.

Benefits all round..."

Mine took 4 weeks to come back but was still employed by them and started before the checks had come back

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Jimmy Saville was a volunteer

And the system falls down! IF he was alive and applied for a job then CRB would still show him as cleared, no prosecution = no record. As things stand he is not guilty of anything, we only know of the allegations because he was famous.

"

My thoughts exactly

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814


"

I once had someone wait for 16 weeks for their CRB to come back. The reason was it had to be reviewed by a senior police officer. When it came back the only thing on it was they'd been found NOT guilty for a minor offence. I couldn't employ that person for that whole time and it really was for no good reason.

Having a properly regulated and updated database would have cut all that out, would have been cheaper and massively more efficient.

Benefits all round...

"

If they were found NOT guilty it shouldnt be on an CRB....

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814


"

Why on earth should employers have access to info o potential employees way too risky as open to abuse plus until the potential is veing actually being offered its none of anyone ekses business "

CRB checks are only done on people getting the job (subject to disclosure obviously)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I once had someone wait for 16 weeks for their CRB to come back. The reason was it had to be reviewed by a senior police officer. When it came back the only thing on it was they'd been found NOT guilty for a minor offence. I couldn't employ that person for that whole time and it really was for no good reason.

Having a properly regulated and updated database would have cut all that out, would have been cheaper and massively more efficient.

Benefits all round...

If they were found NOT guilty it shouldnt be on an CRB.... "

it does not show on a CRB, if you have a CRB it does not even show what any crimes are it just shows you have a record, it don't go into what for

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814


"

it does not show on a CRB, if you have a CRB it does not even show what any crimes are it just shows you have a record, it don't go into what for"

It tells you what the charge was ie Assault and (if found guilty) it tells you outcome ie fine/sentence.

Im talking about an enhanced disclosure that is required for vulnerable aduts etc..

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Anyway...its the PVG scheme up here which is much better....and yes, volunteers need them also, even though they dont need to pay for it.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I once had someone wait for 16 weeks for their CRB to come back. The reason was it had to be reviewed by a senior police officer. When it came back the only thing on it was they'd been found NOT guilty for a minor offence. I couldn't employ that person for that whole time and it really was for no good reason.

Having a properly regulated and updated database would have cut all that out, would have been cheaper and massively more efficient.

Benefits all round...

If they were found NOT guilty it shouldnt be on an CRB.... "

It gave the court date, location, charge and the fact that they were found not not guilty on the grounds that the CPS offered no evidence.

This was in the notes section at the bottom of an enhanced CRB check.

I've seen it more than a few times...

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814


"

If they were found NOT guilty it shouldnt be on an CRB....

It gave the court date, location, charge and the fact that they were found not not guilty on the grounds that the CPS offered no evidence.

This was in the notes section at the bottom of an enhanced CRB check.

I've seen it more than a few times..."

All I can say to this is....Thank gawd for our PVG scheme then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

If they were found NOT guilty it shouldnt be on an CRB....

It gave the court date, location, charge and the fact that they were found not not guilty on the grounds that the CPS offered no evidence.

This was in the notes section at the bottom of an enhanced CRB check.

I've seen it more than a few times...

All I can say to this is....Thank gawd for our PVG scheme then "

I still gave the person the job...lol

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814


"

If they were found NOT guilty it shouldnt be on an CRB....

It gave the court date, location, charge and the fact that they were found not not guilty on the grounds that the CPS offered no evidence.

This was in the notes section at the bottom of an enhanced CRB check.

I've seen it more than a few times...

All I can say to this is....Thank gawd for our PVG scheme then

I still gave the person the job...lol"

LOL.....glad to hear it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Heres a thought

say i have my CRB back today as all clear and able to start work with vunrable groups of kids or adults, but on friday i commit a assult agains the person i am looking after.

This would take three years to be shown on my crb in which time i have been allowed to continue to work.

I think it is not worth the paper it is wrote on why cant we have an electronic system our employers can check every week or month to worm out the ones committing these terrible crimes?

Just a thought

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By *ennyWTV/TS
over a year ago

Teesside

It's not about if you are a paid worker or a volunteer, it's about if you have contact with vulnerable persons.

All my team have checks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Heres a thought

say i have my CRB back today as all clear and able to start work with vunrable groups of kids or adults, but on friday i commit a assult agains the person i am looking after.

This would take three years to be shown on my crb in which time i have been allowed to continue to work.

I think it is not worth the paper it is wrote on why cant we have an electronic system our employers can check every week or month to worm out the ones committing these terrible crimes?

Just a thought"

Hence my previous posts...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If your placed in a trusted position and have the authority to work alone with- Vulnerable adults/children - YOU MUST BE CRB'd - LAW !

So I can see why some voluntary workers wouldn't but paid would.

Interestingly the Supreme court has just ruled on a case that "Extended" CRBs are in Breach of ARTICLE 8 of Human Rights Conventions.............Discuss?!

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester

When I did my teacher training I had to apply for crb enhanced at the start of the course, then because I had 4 placement schools to work at during the course (2 primary & 2 high schools) I had to have a crb check for each.

And because i taught outdoor pursuits to teenagers in the scout movement and to kids at a local school for the Duke of Edinboroughs award scheme. I required a crb for each of them, I had that year 7 crb checks done each costing £45' What a moneymaking scam.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i would of thought a volunteer would require a crb check more than an employee!

but sounds odd as employees in certain jobs by law have be crb..so if a volunteer is working with you, they should also be checked.

doesnt make any sense at all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I used to run my daughters schools pta, we all had to be crb cleared and so did any regular volunteer helpers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Volenteers are there to assist the staff not run the fucking show but are often exploited to do so, any decent org woulnt leave a vulnerable adult-child in the care of a volanteer alone, it woulnt be fair on either,,,,, so as staff have a trusted position over vulnerable people......I can see why this is,,,,,,CRBs area money scam, but also needed, they should be much cheaper or free..........

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By *oulou45Woman
over a year ago

Bucks

I thought everyone had to be crb checked. My main job is looking after 6 guys with servere learning disabilities and challenging behaviour. I'm lucky as the company pay for it. My brother does a lot of maintenance work there he had to have a check. I do relief work for another home, despite already having a crb, I had to have another which I had to pay for. I agree with both checks being done. I know in January the rules were meant to change so it was 1 crb check I don't think it happend and I'm glad if it didn't.

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814


"If your placed in a trusted position and have the authority to work alone with- Vulnerable adults/children - YOU MUST BE CRB'd - LAW !

So I can see why some voluntary workers wouldn't but paid would.

Interestingly the Supreme court has just ruled on a case that "Extended" CRBs are in Breach of ARTICLE 8 of Human Rights Conventions.............Discuss?! "

Thats why ours has changed to PVG scheme....Only interested in any kind of harmful behaviour....

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Alot of people here assuming a CRB check is only done when working with vulnerable people....

Not the case....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Alot of people here assuming a CRB check is only done when working with vulnerable people....

Not the case...."

Very true. Nightclub doormen are just another example of employee who have to undergo CRB checks as part of their licence.

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By *ethany10Couple
over a year ago

falkirk

Interestingly when I go into my grandkids nurseries to help no one ever mentions a CRB check.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Alot of people here assuming a CRB check is only done when working with vulnerable people....

Not the case....

Very true. Nightclub doormen are just another example of employee who have to undergo CRB checks as part of their licence. "

Indeed they do. You can also argue that nightclub patrons are often under the influence of alcohol and/or possibly other substances, which makes them vulnerable.

That's just semantics though, there are many professions that require a CRB that don't involve vulnerable groups...

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

I am CRB checked for my job in a Charity. So are my drivers and any other paid staff. Those who volunteer are not CRB checked as they can only work with those who are. Most of them work in one of our shops and as such do not need one. The ones who help out on the van also don’t need one as there is always a “checked” person with them.

If we had to CRB every volunteer, it would take valuable resources and a fairly large amount of money away from the great work we do. A long as all volunteers are supervised by someone checked, I see no problem. And checking with our legal department, it is legal to operate as we do..

However, if someone is working for an organisation where there is contact with vulnerable groups and there may be no supervision, then an enhanced CRB is required. Our charity is not one of those..

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester


"Alot of people here assuming a CRB check is only done when working with vulnerable people....

Not the case...."

It is in most cases though, in the small number of other cases it is because the industry they work in has to present a clean image. If someone applies for the job of a door supervisor at a night club but their crb shows they have a record for assault or drug dealing, the industry bosses would think they were a likely causes of problems in the future and refuse to relicence them. Its a safeguard for employers to ensure the quality of staff in their employ.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I am CRB checked for my job in a Charity. So are my drivers and any other paid staff. Those who volunteer are not CRB checked as they can only work with those who are. Most of them work in one of our shops and as such do not need one. The ones who help out on the van also don’t need one as there is always a “checked” person with them.

If we had to CRB every volunteer, it would take valuable resources and a fairly large amount of money away from the great work we do. A long as all volunteers are supervised by someone checked, I see no problem. And checking with our legal department, it is legal to operate as we do..

However, if someone is working for an organisation where there is contact with vulnerable groups and there may be no supervision, then an enhanced CRB is required. Our charity is not one of those..

"

We are a children's charity but I'm in the retail sector but still needed a enhanced crb check even though I've no contact with children our van drivers are not crb checked either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Depends if the volunteers are supervised or not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Alot of people here assuming a CRB check is only done when working with vulnerable people....

Not the case....

Very true. Nightclub doormen are just another example of employee who have to undergo CRB checks as part of their licence.

Indeed they do. You can also argue that nightclub patrons are often under the influence of alcohol and/or possibly other substances, which makes them vulnerable.

That's just semantics though, there are many professions that require a CRB that don't involve vulnerable groups..."

These other industries that do crb, is it a legal requirement or just something the company do to show they do good and win a contract or something?

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By *nnejohnCouple
over a year ago

warrington

to obtain a license to operate a burger van or ice cream van in warrington you need a crb check.to drive the vehicle you don't.ridiculous council here.

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By *xpresMan
over a year ago

Elland

Im a football coach ive had 3 in my time... if it protects the kids i dont mind at all check check n check again

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By *xpresMan
over a year ago

Elland


"to obtain a license to operate a burger van or ice cream van in warrington you need a crb check.to drive the vehicle you don't.ridiculous council here."

Kids are always near icecream vans & imsure a seller was done not so long ago for grooming

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By *xpresMan
over a year ago

Elland

[Removed by poster at 28/03/13 12:06:45]

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By *nnejohnCouple
over a year ago

warrington


"to obtain a license to operate a burger van or ice cream van in warrington you need a crb check.to drive the vehicle you don't.ridiculous council here.

Kids are always near icecream vans & imsure a seller was done not so long ago for grooming"

exactly my point,the drivers dont require crb,but the owner does.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

If someone is not checked they are not supposed to be left alone with vulnerable people.

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