FabSwingers.com forum: Swastika. It's all about the context

By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

Footage of a member of the public grilling a police officer during a large scale march in London. She complains about a mrcher allegedly displaying a swastika and the officer explains that he does not know the context. The lady is my impressed. Is it all about the context,?

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

https://youtu.be/e0bOMnStG4g?si=tAq-MwjglI38FrtY

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By *lik and PaulCouple
26 weeks ago

Flagrante

From Wikipedia...

It is considered to be a sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism and dates back at least 11,000 years. The swastika (gammadion, fylfot) symbol became a popular symbol of luck in the Western world in the early 20th century, as it had long been in Asia, and was often used for ornamentation...

So yes context can be important and the woman in the video obviously wasn't aware of its history.

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By *a LunaWoman
26 weeks ago

South

The trouble is most associate it as just a Nazi symbol. Whereas it isn’t. Different cultures and religions use it. The Nazi’s appropriated it.

I think the police officer was ambushed by a very passionate protester, and was terrified of saying the wrong thing.

So he said the wrong thing.

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By *yzykMan
26 weeks ago

Stirlingshire

No footage or pics of the swastika? Easy enough to tell if it's a Nazi symbol or not

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By *hePerkyPumpkinTV/TS
26 weeks ago

Bristol

The Nazi's did one hell of a rebrand with the swastika...

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By *ou only live onceMan
26 weeks ago

London

Please stop with the "it's an ancient symbol" schtick. I know that's true, but it really has been been trumped now and anyone carrying/displaying one is highly unlikely to be celebrating ancient Hindu, Buddhist or Jainist symbolism.

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By *heGateKeeperMan
26 weeks ago

Stratford

"Please stop with the "it's an ancient symbol" schtick. I know that's true, but it really has been been trumped now and anyone carrying/displaying one is highly unlikely to be celebrating ancient Hindu, Buddhist or Jainist symbolism."

^^^

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By *ou only live onceMan
26 weeks ago

London

^^^"

I'm old enough to remember seeing them daubed alongside the letters NF. Didn't like them then, don't like them now. But people were probably just wishing others health and happiness.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

To be fair, Tom has seen similar symbols currently displayed by one peaceful religion..

The Chief of Police should be proud of this officer who reports say will not face sanctions by the police department called Internal Affairs, which investigates it's own and is despised by many policemen

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By *ea monkeyMan
26 weeks ago

Manchester (he/him)

It’s not illegal to display them so I’m not sure what the person was expecting the police officer to do?

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By *onameyet2Man
26 weeks ago

chorley

Let people display it if they like then you can ask them if they’re a Nazi and if it’s a yes tell em they’re a cunt, easy.

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By *agnar73Man
26 weeks ago

Glasgow

Red and white Nazi one? No need for context.

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By *onameyet2Man
26 weeks ago

chorley

"Red and white Nazi one? No need for context."

Could be a colour blind Nazi?

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By *teG1690Man
26 weeks ago

Huddersfield

"No footage or pics of the swastika? Easy enough to tell if it's a Nazi symbol or not"

This, everyone has a camera in their pocket but there are no photos of this alleged swastika

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By *agnar73Man
26 weeks ago

Glasgow

"Red and white Nazi one? No need for context.

Could be a colour blind Nazi?"

Nazis have no shades of grey

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By *eavilMan
26 weeks ago

Stalybridge

[Removed by poster at 01/04/24 14:13:28]

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By *arry monk40Man
26 weeks ago

Telford

The Indian embassy in London is covered in them

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By (user no longer on site)
26 weeks ago

If you're on a march with a swastika in the UK you're probably a nazi. If you're looking at a map of Japan, it's probably a Buddhist temple. So yes, it is an ancient symbol, and yes, context matters, but it's got a very clear meaning in the west.

(Try not to land up marching with nazis)

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By *eavilMan
26 weeks ago

Stalybridge

The Indian Embassy in central London has a large Swastika (amongst other symbols) on its wall. Don't think most people have even noticed it.

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By *ymAndIcedCoffeeWoman
26 weeks ago

Worcester

Considering the Met police get pretty comprehensive training on what symbols far-right groups use, one can only assume that the police officer himself supports the group and didn't want to do anything about it.

Either that or he's extraordinarily thick and doesn't know what the word 'context' means.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

So a storm in an eggcup..

Nothing to see and move along..

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By *ymAndIcedCoffeeWoman
26 weeks ago

Worcester

"So a storm in an eggcup..

Nothing to see and move along..

Quite the opposite.

Yet another example of the Met potentially not vetting properly before hiring.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

"So a storm in an eggcup..

Nothing to see and move along..

Quite the opposite.

Yet another example of the Met potentially not vetting properly before hiring."

With all due respect... Nonsense

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By *leasureseekers123Couple
26 weeks ago

Heathrow

"So a storm in an eggcup..

Nothing to see and move along..

Quite the opposite.

Yet another example of the Met potentially not vetting properly before hiring.

With all due respect... Nonsense

Why was the post above you talking nonsense?

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By *ty31Man
26 weeks ago

NW London

"Considering the Met police get pretty comprehensive training on what symbols far-right groups use, one can only assume that the police officer himself supports the group and didn't want to do anything about it.

Either that or he's extraordinarily thick and doesn't know what the word 'context' means."

I think it was being displayed as part of a Palestine demonstration not a far right march.

It's clearly offensive and upsetting to Jewish people.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

"So a storm in an eggcup..

Nothing to see and move along..

Quite the opposite.

Yet another example of the Met potentially not vetting properly before hiring.

With all due respect... Nonsense

Why was the post above you talking nonsense?"

What has vetting got to do with it exactly?

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By *ickdasterdly51Man
26 weeks ago

Lingfield

I've yet to see a picture of the offending swastika so it's a bit difficult to what context it was used in.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

"I've yet to see a picture of the offending swastika so it's a bit difficult to what context it was used in."

Well to be fair the lady did say that she saw it in the crowd.. further down the line..

If the officer cold not see it then what can he do . ?

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68708981

In a strange coincidence the German footballe shirt no 44 is said to resemble the SS insignia of the German army. Reports that the manufacturer may not allow this shirt. It's all over the news

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By *ildbillkidMan
26 weeks ago

where the road goes on forever

In the American southwest, the Navajo, zuni,hoping, used the "whirling log" symbol years and years before WW2,

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By (user no longer on site)
26 weeks ago

The word swastika itself derives from the Sanskrit svastika, meaning "conducive to well-being".

An extract from History Extra online, I believe sums it up very well:-

"The answer, although not a neat one, may be that there will always be two utterly conflicting interpretations of the swastika, both of which are part of our history, present and future: one representing the worst of humanity and the other symbolising the best."

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By (user no longer on site)
26 weeks ago

Prince Harry didn't get arrested for it ...

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By *lik and PaulCouple
26 weeks ago

Flagrante

"I've yet to see a picture of the offending swastika so it's a bit difficult to what context it was used in.

Well to be fair the lady did say that she saw it in the crowd.. further down the line..

If the officer cold not see it then what can he do . ?"

The more I look at this, especially with her saying "are you filming this" just smacks of another person just wanting their 5 minutes of you tube fame.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

The lady is on breakfast radio today. Well spoken but perhaps a little misguided, an American Jewish lady living in London who is pursuing a career in journalism. She seemed to say the march was taken over by the left because Jeremy, we won the arguement but not the election, Corbyn was speaking there.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

And she had a film crew with her

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

[Removed by poster at 02/04/24 08:27:00]

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By *a LunaWoman
26 weeks ago

South

"And she had a film crew with her

Film crew or Roger from Spalling with his Samsung out?

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By (user no longer on site)
26 weeks ago

Hitler destroyed the use & meaning of the Swastika....For me it represents Nazi Germany & I do believe "anyone carrying/displaying one is highly unlikely to be celebrating ancient Hindu, Buddhist or Jainist symbolism", unfortunately.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
26 weeks ago

BRIDPORT

Just some gobby American bint trying to further her own career

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By *uzy750TV/TS
26 weeks ago

Luton

Yes it is an ancient symbol coopted by National Socialists in the 20th century. In that the officer is correct that context is important.

The context in this case was a march by pro-palestinians against the Jewish state of Isreal.

Displaying a Swastika at such a march, in support of Palestinians and against Jews, would therefore clearly show an action likely to cause harm or distress as it did in the woman complaining. It was clearly an action contrary to the law, and the officers should have taken action.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

They also need to consider if that would start an unnecessary riot and their capability to deal with that and keep everyone safe

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

Where is Batty ? He is usually good with all things police based.

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By (user no longer on site)
26 weeks ago

Usually when used as a religious symbol it is square set and when used as a hate symbol it is diamond set.

However, given that most racists are idiots, that's not something you can rely on. The background being red and white certainly adds to it, but if it's hand-drawn, it may not have backgrounds.

Most uses in Europe and the Anglosphere are fascist.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

Just for clarity, Tom fully accepts that this was a provocative depiction of the symbol. The American lady said that the image was on a poster that had been handed out by a group at a previous march and had a picture of Biden and Sunak on the poster also. It appears from the radio interview that the lady complained to several individual police officers who kept fobbing her off and told her to find another policeman. When she finally filmed the sergeant, the person was long gone.

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By *hiversMan
26 weeks ago

Dinas Powys

"The trouble is most associate it as just a Nazi symbol. Whereas it isn’t. Different cultures and religions use it. The Nazi’s appropriated it.

Sadly that's pretty much par for the course with Nazis/White supremacists. Lots of ancient symbols of fortune and power were misappropriated

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
26 weeks ago

Cheshire

A certain actor/ failed Mayoral candidate also used the swastika recently created from the pride flag. In my opinion done to create outrage.

I’m not one for criticising the Police as I know the tough job they do. However the Officer should’ve at least followed the member of public to check out their complaint. Just like that failed actor if this display was to cause outrage or even encourage violence then he should’ve at least checked out if there was even a swastika present at that demonstration.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

"A certain actor/ failed Mayoral candidate also used the swastika recently created from the pride flag. In my opinion done to create outrage.

The police officer was posted to a beat for a reason and just cannot wander off on a wild goose chase.

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By *haverMan
26 weeks ago

bracknell

If it was displayed in a march in Germany would you still think it was a good luck symbol

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
26 weeks ago

Cheshire

"A certain actor/ failed Mayoral candidate also used the swastika recently created from the pride flag. In my opinion done to create outrage.

The police officer was posted to a beat for a reason and just cannot wander off on a wild goose chase. "

He’s not a member of the Kings Guards

He had options to deal with a complaint from a member of the public. From informing a higher rank of the complaint, radioing other officers to see if anyone else had seen the offending symbol to getting permission to leave that area.

I have seen the video and I work closely with the Police, so in general I’m a supporter of their work. In this case however I don’t think he did as much as he could to resolve the situation.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

"A certain actor/ failed Mayoral candidate also used the swastika recently created from the pride flag. In my opinion done to create outrage.

The police officer was posted to a beat for a reason and just cannot wander off on a wild goose chase.

He’s not a member of the Kings Guards

I have seen the video and I work closely with the Police, so in general I’m a supporter of their work. In this case however I don’t think he did as much as he could to resolve the situation. "

You have an opinion and I respect both you and you opinion. I can see moe than one side and will leave it that and wish you well

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By (user no longer on site)
26 weeks ago

I've just watched the video now.

My god that woman was trying her hardest to argue for the sake of argument. She wanted to bandy around the term antisemitism and apply it for the sakes of application. She wasn't upset at the symbol (which nobody seems to have a record of art a highly publicised event), she just wanted to disrupt events that day. Clearly she doesn't support the cause so what else was she doing there?

The symbol itself isn't illegal. And there are 1.7 billion Hindus and Buddhists for whom the symbol means something loving.

Leave the poor officer to finish his Cappuccino.

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By *batMan
26 weeks ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

The swastika isn’t illegal in itself. Otherwise you’d have to ban a lot of war films. Therefore context is important.

But its use could indeed breach legislation. At a political march, involving many Jews, I’d guess it wasn’t a historical reenactment!

Were they trying to cause harassment, alarm or distress to people? Or were they likening the current politics within the state of Israel to behaviour similar to the Nazis? Or something else?

Best thing to do for the police is go and find out. The police officer didn’t need to personally go and look for it, but somebody should have.

Why on earth didn’t the police officer simply use his radio to speak to his control room, inform other officers about it, and they could take what ever action was justified, proportionate, legal and necessary if they saw the swastika.

Not good policing.

Gbat

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

"The swastika isn’t illegal in itself. Otherwise you’d have to ban a lot of war films. Therefore context is important.

But its use could indeed breach legislation. At a political march, involving many Jews, I’d guess it wasn’t a historical reenactment!

Were they trying to cause harassment, alarm or distress to people? Or were they likening the current politics within the state of Israel to behaviour similar to the Nazis? Or something else?

Best thing to do for the police is go and find out. The police officer didn’t need to personally go and look for it, but somebody should have.

Not good policing.

Gbat "

I new we could rely on GBAT to give balance on this. Spot on. Even if he pretended to use his radio it would of at least given a better impression. Mind you. There is more to this story than meets the eye...and make no mistake

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By *a LunaWoman
26 weeks ago

South

"The swastika isn’t illegal in itself. Otherwise you’d have to ban a lot of war films. Therefore context is important.

But its use could indeed breach legislation. At a political march, involving many Jews, I’d guess it wasn’t a historical reenactment!

Were they trying to cause harassment, alarm or distress to people? Or were they likening the current politics within the state of Israel to behaviour similar to the Nazis? Or something else?

Best thing to do for the police is go and find out. The police officer didn’t need to personally go and look for it, but somebody should have.

Not good policing.

Gbat "

From the little I’ve seen of it from Tom’s link, it did look like he’d been put on the spot with being filmed etc. I got the impression he didn’t know what was the right thing to say, so instead of keeping quiet he said the wrong thing.

The Police are under a big spotlight at the moment as to their behaviour and actions and I get the feeling this was at the forefront of his mind, rather than the concerned citizens concern.

I say that, but he might have just been a really shit police officer who was on his coffee break and couldn’t be arsed.

But if someone started recording me and made a big thing about recording me, I imagine I’d get a bit flustered too.

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By *2000ManMan
26 weeks ago

Worthing

I'd be interested to know the reaction had the woman started waving the St George flag.

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By *ssex_tom OP Man
26 weeks ago

Chelmsford

"I'd be interested to know the reaction had the woman started waving the St George flag."

Nobody would recognise it.. it's a purple cross now apparently

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By *_V_1Man
26 weeks ago

North Tyneside

What would Indiana Jones do?

He'd punch the nazi.

And Indy is always right.

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By *rozac_fairyCouple
26 weeks ago

Tamworth

"I'd be interested to know the reaction had the woman started waving the St George flag.

Nobody would recognise it.. it's a purple cross now apparently "

I quite like the Purple Cross.. I mean, plenty of others have changed our flag. Didn't Ukip had a purple Union Jack at one point?

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By *batMan
26 weeks ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

Half the Brits don’t know which way up it goes!

Gbat

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