FabSwingers.com forum: Should military service be mandatory?

By *hagTonight OP Man
36 weeks ago

From the land of haribos.

Continue here, any late comers, it was interesting to see the replies. I was watching a program about it and it was interesting, it was if military service should be mandatory or not.

They talked about the benefits, especially for the younger ones like those who are finishing college to do a semester of 4 month of it and what it will teach them, like, being punctual, show respect, team work and having a clean room, amongst other things.

I agree with them and the points they talked about. I think that it would be a good idea.

What is your view about it and do you think it is a good idea, how would they implement it, should it be at the end of the term?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Yes simple short answer.

2 years then free to decide to leave or continue.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

There are 220'000 school leavers each year and 150'000 regular military, how do you propose to house, feed and train these people? Many regular military roles require a minimum of 2 years training before becoming operationally capable also.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inny_69Man
36 weeks ago

Newbury

Yes, beside I do love men in uniform

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ittle Miss TinkerbellWoman
36 weeks ago

your head

I get the side of it that can teach discipline, time keeping, a good work ethic etc but I still don't agree it should be mandatory. This isn't an every day job we are talking about, its dangerous. It's not a situation we should force people into. Anyone who signs up should 100% understand what they are getting into and still choose that is what they want to do.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ikerP1000Man
36 weeks ago

Durham

I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.

It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.

However - I DO support the idea of a type of National Service of around 2 years to be taken up at somepoint between 18 to 25. This could be supplementing the armed forces, but as this is not suitable for all, could also be service in the NHS, emergency and rescue services, voluntary sector etc.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

How would this be funded and who would do all those jobs that younger people do while they were square bashing ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

teaching violent people how to be more efficient at it sounds like a good idea

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

Most jobs teach you how to be disciplined and punctual. I don't agree with the commonly held belief that all people under 25 are workshy, lazy and don't understand the importance of doing their job properly either. A couple of weeks working with older people who won't let you get away with it soon sorts the sheep from the goats.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otsMan
36 weeks ago

Higham

"teaching violent people how to be more efficient at it sounds like a good idea

Exactly so no!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tylebender03Man
36 weeks ago

Manchester

No it shouldn’t be mandatory as a lot of young adults want to go into further education and this would be a waste of their time. A lot of young adult don’t need to join the army to learn respect, discipline etc

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *he turned me GreyCouple
36 weeks ago

Warwick and Coventry

Like fuck it should be......

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"No it shouldn’t be mandatory as a lot of young adults want to go into further education and this would be a waste of their time. A lot of young adult don’t need to join the army to learn respect, discipline etc"

Yep. There are consequences to not displaying these characteristics in a working environment as well as socially.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Don't get it tbh.

It's a shed load of cost for what benefit ? Do we really need that big an armed forces + reserves ?

I don't buy the whole discipline bit. Most kids have that.

And it's to solve those who don't, why not try spend the money between the ages of 0 and 18.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"Don't get it tbh.

It's a shed load of cost for what benefit ? Do we really need that big an armed forces + reserves ?

I don't buy the whole discipline bit. Most kids have that.

And it's to solve those who don't, why not try spend the money between the ages of 0 and 18. "

Given that the armed forces we have got are frighteningly underfunded I have no idea where the money would come from.

I agree with you, if there's money to do this and people feel it's necessary why not spend it before it becomes a need.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ts the taking part thatMan
36 weeks ago

southampton

[Removed by poster at 17/03/24 16:03:55]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *r_reusMan
36 weeks ago

Coventry

Under this governing system, absolutely not.

I can barely tolerate living under as much bullshit as we do, I'm sure as hell not going to die for it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ts the taking part thatMan
36 weeks ago

southampton

"Yes simple short answer.

2 years then free to decide to leave or continue."

Agreed, 100% but no active service as in real conflict whilst conscripted.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ermbiMan
36 weeks ago

Ballyshannon

Yes it might discipline the snowflakes who think they are entitled to everything for little work and instil a bit of resilience instead of nonsense that they cannot accept rejection or no for an answer.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Commented on the last thread:

Talking from experience in the role:

I don’t think it would work

It’s hard enough to keep retention at the best of times let along introducing a large number of people who potentially don’t want to be there

Then there’s the maint of kit and field graft; some people might not ‘dig in’ so to speak

In short; sure it’d boost defence numbers, but it may cause more headache than good imo

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Spin off question : would you have benefited from NS at 18?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *loomy GirlWoman
36 weeks ago

leicester

Absolutely not. No one should have to be put at risk of their lives for this country.

My son is in the army and I fucking hate it. I hate every tiny bit of him being away for weeks or months at a time.

He’s 19 now but went through the AFC from age 16/17. He has an almost 2 year old at home waiting for daddy to come home safe. He’s been away for 4 weeks and still got a few more weeks til he’s home.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.

It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.

Absolutely agree with this.

In operational roles you need total trust in your colleagues and vice versa.

If you don't exactly want to be there then you're not fully committed to it and hence you create the weak link on the chain.

If you want to instill the mindset, work ethics etc then there could be roles within the Armed Forces doing barrack based duties which are perfect for that.

But it's a no for conscription into operations from me

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"Absolutely not. No one should have to be put at risk of their lives for this country.

My son is in the army and I fucking hate it. I hate every tiny bit of him being away for weeks or months at a time.

You have my best wishes for his safe return

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ichaelsmyMan
36 weeks ago

douglas

"There are 220'000 school leavers each year and 150'000 regular military, how do you propose to house, feed and train these people? Many regular military roles require a minimum of 2 years training before becoming operationally capable also. "

as with many comments and statistics, based on incorrect information.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

National Service only existed as a concept for a very short period - 1947 to 1960 (for recruitment). It was because we feared the Soviets and thought we should retain enough trained people to respond to further conflict, post WW2. My Dad is nearly 85 and was among the last to be called up for NS, as he was born earlier in '39.

See this: "National Service ended gradually from 1957. It was decided that those born on or after 1 October 1939 would not be required, but conscription continued for those born earlier whose call-up had been delayed for any reason. In November 1960 the last men entered service, as call-ups formally ended on 31 December 1960, and the last National Servicemen left the armed forces in May 1963"

It's laughable that so many people "reminisce" when they've got absolutely bugger all experience of compulsory NS. Anyone younger than 84 has no direct experience whatsoever. Anyone who voluntarily joined the military at other times, is a totally different kettle of fish and wouldn't understand the issue with it being compulsory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Service_Act_1948

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *loomy GirlWoman
36 weeks ago

leicester

"Absolutely not. No one should have to be put at risk of their lives for this country.

My son is in the army and I fucking hate it. I hate every tiny bit of him being away for weeks or months at a time.

You have my best wishes for his safe return "

Thank you.

He managed to send me some flowers for Mother’s Day and that’s the only way I knew he was safe cos I hadn’t heard from him for a few weeks. Literally burst out crying and I’m not usually a cryer lol

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *rozac_fairyCouple
36 weeks ago

Tamworth

What benefit would it be?

How would it be funded?

Surely it's a waste of time for those who want to continue into higher education...

I saw it discussed on another social media platform, there were lots of older people arguing that 18-25 year old people are "lazy, workshy, entitled" etc. Which is laughable really. You can literally Google quotes of older people saying this, nearly word for word for the last 100 years.

Wasn't it also Socrates that also did this?

So no. I'd fully support a "conscription" based on choice for those who want to sample something else to help aid in their possible career choice. But making it mandatory? I just don't think filling places with people who don't want to be there is a good idea.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anilla-sinCouple
36 weeks ago

lancs

Don't agree with it..and frankly.. if the global situation means that it is required..then we are all fucked anyway.

why? M.A.D

also, don't we have about 3 tanks, and broken missiles?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *jorkishMan
36 weeks ago

Seaforth

No thanks it should be a choice to join up or not.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tephTV67TV/TS
36 weeks ago

Cheshire

Would this be just for boys or would girls be conscripted ?

I served and knowing the guys wanted to be there made basic training a lot easier. No constant beastings if your fellow trainees are motivated themselves.

From a personal perspective I have two boys neither would suit the military life, both autistic and would really suffer around people they didn’t know or were shouting orders at them.

Agree with others who don’t believe youngsters are lazy and unmotivated. Worked with plenty of the years and the majority are hard working and eager to learn new skills.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Defo not

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ichaelsmyMan
36 weeks ago

douglas

people think that conscription means everyone has to do the time.

it doesnt mean that at all. there was still medicals, mental and phsyical tests, basic reading writing etc for the army alone.

there are people in the country who simply could not pass the tests to qualify for entry.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *aldyreynoldsMan
36 weeks ago

Oldbury

"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.

It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.

I'm have the same opinion. I wouldn't have liked to serve alongside anyone that didn't volunteer.

Maybe some kind of community service would be better.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Exactly this op.

It is not good at all.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ikeSM23Man
36 weeks ago

Manchester

"Continue here, any late comers, it was interesting to see the replies. I was watching a program about it and it was interesting, it was if military service should be mandatory or not.

I agree with them and the points they talked about. I think that it would be a good idea.

What is your view about it and do you think it is a good idea, how would they implement it, should it be at the end of the term?

The word military in modern society ‘should’ trigger alarm bells in anyone sufficiently educated and with the sanity to understand its disastrous implications. On the other hand, ‘service’ in the sense of providing support to the community in general could well be a worthy programme of personal development.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ddie1966Man
36 weeks ago

Paper Town Central, Essex.

Ex mil myself.

Would I want someone next to me who was forced to do their service.

Not on your life (or my life, should I say)

Some things you can't teach unless they want to do it.

Even those who do want to do it will balk when it comes to pulling a trigger at someone in front of them.

I do agree with selective filtering of those with skills that would be beneficial to our forces.

In this day and age there are many ways to contribute to the defence of the realm.

Square pegs and round holes do not go.

Just my opinion though....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *smith87Man
36 weeks ago

totton

I'm against this. The army isn't an army anymore it's numbers are at the level of a defence force. I was in for 10 years got made redundant during the defence cuts. I tried to rejoin but couldn't get back in as on antidepressants, but it's ok to be on them if your interested. Very odd

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *alandNitaCouple
36 weeks ago

Scunthorpe

Can you imagine the effect of removing all new workers from the employment market for two years?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

If it's to be a yes it should apply to people of all ages.

Let's see how enthusiastic everyone is then ...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

I’m wondering what people would do if they were put to work in the NHS or voluntary sector? Who would pay for it? What benefit would it be to the country and the young people?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"If it's to be a yes it should apply to people of all ages.

Let's see how enthusiastic everyone is then ..."

I’ve been wondering why, if the army is so good for youngsters, the people suggesting National Service didn’t join up themselves?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *agnar73Man
36 weeks ago

glasgow-ish

Learned cleaning and polishing shoes from my dad who did have to do it. I cooked from age 11 and learned to do a lot of things around house after my mum broke bones in her back after an accident at work

From the point of view that many youngsters seem not to have the life skills they need it could be an idea but also raises an issue about modern life and how equipped kids are to deal with it.

In other ways I’d be opposed to seeing kids on national service be deployed abroad or whatever and if you’re gonna call them up at some point, then the age of vote might need to drop to 16 too.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"If it's to be a yes it should apply to people of all ages.

Let's see how enthusiastic everyone is then ...

I’ve been wondering why, if the army is so good for youngsters, the people suggesting National Service didn’t join up themselves?"

Indeed. Great idea providing they don't have to do it themselves.

Same attitude as the dicks who make the decisions to send young lads into battle.

These days there's no reason for older people not to get involved anyway. They can operate drones. Sweep factory floors. Help with medical aid for the youngsters they so happily send to war.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

I guess the funding would come from the magical money tree that doesn't exist to fund schools etc.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hree_into_oneCouple
36 weeks ago

warrington

Only to 72

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *929Man
36 weeks ago

newcastle

Maybe mandatory for those that don’t leave school and become a productive member of society yes

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *alandNitaCouple
36 weeks ago

Scunthorpe

A very big NO.

I don't see that military service is a positive thing for the vast majority of people. Not to mention how such an endeavour would be funded...

I would much rather see better funding for education, the NHS and genuinely affordable housing.

Nita

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eavilMan
36 weeks ago

Stalybridge

The Armed Forces have stated that they are not in favour of a conscript intake. A better solution would be to invest in more hi-tech solutions to defence that reduces the need for manpower. Also the general public would be more supportive if robots rather than young boys and girls were in the proverbial firing line.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ts the taking part thatMan
36 weeks ago

southampton

"Can you imagine the effect of removing all new workers from the employment market for two years?"

It's no difference to kids attending school or going to college or university.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *i4bicplsMan
36 weeks ago

Darwen

I think it would be a good idea for those who aren't in full-time education, or a job by the time they are 18 to do a minimum of 2yrs service. It might help reduce there numbers who claim benefits because they can't be bothered to get off their arses.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslutTV/TS
36 weeks ago

Central

No. We've moved on from the past world wars. It may be relevant if we get another. Military service should be optional and left as a professional pursuit, for those suited to it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"Can you imagine the effect of removing all new workers from the employment market for two years?

It's no difference to kids attending school or going to college or university.

It used to be that it was. Your NS could be delayed to allow you to do university education but you still had to do your year of NS. The NS was deferred, basically. The only exemptions were men from NI and men working in reserved occupations like mining and farming and only then if they remained in those occupations for eight years after the date they should have commenced NS. If they left their occupation, they got called up (in theory, because in practice, the whole NS thing only really lasted 10 years).

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ikerP1000Man
36 weeks ago

Durham

"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.

It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.

Absolutely agree with this.

In operational roles you need total trust in your colleagues and vice versa.

If you don't exactly want to be there then you're not fully committed to it and hence you create the weak link on the chain.

If you want to instill the mindset, work ethics etc then there could be roles within the Armed Forces doing barrack based duties which are perfect for that.

But it's a no for conscription into operations from me"

Could’ve say it better myself. Nice one ????

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *quirrel!Man
36 weeks ago

Nearby

With this generation? I think they’d crumble!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ir SupremacyMan
36 weeks ago

Bolton

Definitely not ...because in my opinion its very expensive to train soldiers that don't want to be there and the British Army would cease to be a professional service.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *xfordjohnMan
36 weeks ago

Oxford

"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.

It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.

I agree very much with the above. I don't see the point of training zillions of young people how to kill other young people but I can see the point of some useful work in the community

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.

It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.

I agree very much with the above. I don't see the point of training zillions of young people how to kill other young people but I can see the point of some useful work in the community"

if young people want to do some useful work in the community they can choose it as their career. Who's going to pay them otherwise?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"With this generation? I think they’d crumble! "

Yeah they're nowhere near as tough as those of us brought up in the 70s/80s/90s.

They never suffered perms and shellsuits, dial up internet and having to actually pedal their BMX.

Tough times.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"With this generation? I think they’d crumble!

Yeah they're nowhere near as tough as those of us brought up in the 70s/80s/90s.

They never suffered perms and shellsuits, dial up internet and having to actually pedal their BMX.

Tough times."

you want to try growing up in the late fifties and sixties. Only two channels on the telly, cod liver oil and calves foot jelly. A darn good stint in the army would have put hairs on our chest

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oubleswing2019Man
36 weeks ago

Colchester

I don't believe in mandatory "anything", so no. Freedom of choice for the individual to consider, especially when the outcome is their own mortality.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *antra MassageMan
36 weeks ago

South Side.

"Absolutely not. No one should have to be put at risk of their lives for this country.

My son is in the army and I fucking hate it. I hate every tiny bit of him being away for weeks or months at a time.

You have my best wishes for his safe return

Thank you.

I know the feeling. It won't be long till he's home safe with you all.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *antra MassageMan
36 weeks ago

South Side.

No, it's not a good idea. I don't think any western countries have conscription anymore. The best soldiers are professional soldiers who want to be there.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"No, it's not a good idea. I don't think any western countries have conscription anymore. The best soldiers are professional soldiers who want to be there. "

Many of the Nordic countries have some kind of conscription, Finland being the one that springs most readily to mind. Germany only ended its conscription in the late 1990s.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ou only live onceMan
36 weeks ago

London

My answer is still no. Our Armed Forces should be made up of professionals, who are there by choice.

You also don't need to join the forces to learn all the important life skills in the OP. Most people have them, without ever needing to join the Forces.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *antra MassageMan
36 weeks ago

South Side.

"No, it's not a good idea. I don't think any western countries have conscription anymore. The best soldiers are professional soldiers who want to be there.

Many of the Nordic countries have some kind of conscription, Finland being the one that springs most readily to mind. Germany only ended its conscription in the late 1990s. "

I've spoken to the training cadres in the French and German armies, and they all agreed it was becoming more difficult trying to socialise young civilians into army life, when they didn't want to be there. They were glad it finished. I've met Finnish and Austrian volunteer reservists and they were very professional.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

My Dad did National Service. I don't think it instilled anything in him, other than an aversion to doing what someone else tells him and that you can iron a shirt on a wooden board. He has never once demonstrated it solitary military characteristic. My Grandad (Mum's dad), on the other hand, joined up at 14 and was every inch a military man for the rest of his life, despite leaving the army in 1958. The difference between the conscripted and voluntary soldiers in my life have been self evident.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *rixie_BlondeWoman
36 weeks ago

London (She/Her)

No! Forced labour - ie sl@very - is a terrible idea!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *rozac_fairyCouple
36 weeks ago

Tamworth

"Can you imagine the effect of removing all new workers from the employment market for two years?

It's no difference to kids attending school or going to college or university.

Except most kids who attend college or go to uni are also working, if only part time or also doing an apprenticeship

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

Has anyone said how this would be funded yet and who'd be doing the Sunday shift in the supermarket if all the students were marching in formation somewhere?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ensualbicockMan
36 weeks ago

liverpool wavertree picton clock

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *alandNitaCouple
36 weeks ago

Scunthorpe

"Can you imagine the effect of removing all new workers from the employment market for two years?

It's no difference to kids attending school or going to college or university.

They'd have to do all of those things too, but you would add a two year offset where they all went into national service first before starting work.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslutTV/TS
36 weeks ago

Central

I'd prefer the £billions it would cost, to be invested in our crumbling public services instead. Our infrastructure is toast, after years when leaders were plundering the community chest, awarding contracts for billions to their mates, so we have little to support well-being of the nation

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Depressed teenagers with real guns? Sounds like a great idea!

In all seriousness tho, I still wouldn't mind it but that's because I'm trying to build up the fitness for a military career anyway! Here's hoping I pass the Capita medical process...OH WAIT...WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CONSCRIPTIONS BECAUSE BY THE TIME THEY PASS THE FUCKING CAPITA BULLSHIT THEY'LL BE TOO OLD TO SERVE ANYWAY...(where's my crying emoji?).

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ustAnotherMan
36 weeks ago

wherever I may roam

No.

Formalised structure can be great for some who needs and crave it and can be positive in some ways. They often leave that setting bereft of the supporting architecture and translate badly to other employment.

NS was specific response to a need at that time, it doesn't apply now

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"Has anyone said how this would be funded yet and who'd be doing the Sunday shift in the supermarket if all the students were marching in formation somewhere?"

No, it’s just an old man wank fantasy. It’s quite sad really.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *_the_impalerMan
36 weeks ago

canterbury

It’s great in theory but it’s a no from me

A good example is Turkey and Argentina having conscription and look at the quality of their armed forces even for all the equipment they have. Again Russia men forced to fight will put little effort in or refuse the British proved this in the Falklands and Ukraine did there.

A small motivated professional armed forces wipes the floor with sheer numbers.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *_the_impalerMan
36 weeks ago

canterbury

"I'd prefer the £billions it would cost, to be invested in our crumbling public services instead. Our infrastructure is toast, after years when leaders were plundering the community chest, awarding contracts for billions to their mates, so we have little to support well-being of the nation

Here here

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ymAndIcedCoffeeWoman
36 weeks ago

Worcester

The 16-21 year olds I used to employ in a leisure centre had great discipline. They had pride, an chosen family, and they learned skills that would be useful for the rest of their lives.

Maybe we should fund school/touth physical education (and arts, etc) programs so that young people can find their passions rather than funding a government controlled organization to thrust guns into their hands.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"teaching violent people how to be more efficient at it sounds like a good idea

There is ALWAYS one

thank you for your absolutely useless input!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"The 16-21 year olds I used to employ in a leisure centre had great discipline. They had pride, an chosen family, and they learned skills that would be useful for the rest of their lives.

We used to. Then Tory...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"Most jobs teach you how to be disciplined and punctual. I don't agree with the commonly held belief that all people under 25 are workshy, lazy and don't understand the importance of doing their job properly either. A couple of weeks working with older people who won't let you get away with it soon sorts the sheep from the goats. "

Exactly this op.

Society labels young people as lazy good for nothings.

None of us are perfect op. No to military service.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"teaching violent people how to be more efficient at it sounds like a good idea

There is ALWAYS one

thank you for your absolutely useless input!"

He’s right.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Most would never meet the entry requirements.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ymAndIcedCoffeeWoman
36 weeks ago

Worcester

"Most would never meet the entry requirements."

I got turned down for the army reserves because I once went to my doctor and reported dyspareunia (that is - painful sex in women).

I asked why this would make a difference, and was told that when I was doing a tour in the desert there might be problems with the supply of "women's medication".

I pointed out that I didn't intend to be having sex while in a desert anyway, so if I was having sex then there would likely be bigger problems with the male troops stationed with me (the role I was applying for would never go outside the fence).

And I also asked what medication they felt would be a problem, since I didn't take any medication for that condition, nor had it been investigated further than routine monitoring by my GP at later appointments. In fact, at that time I wasn't taking any medication at all.

I can only assume that they also turn down any men who have ever reported erectile dysfunction or similar to their GP, even if they've never taken medication for it. Because the alternative is that the army is sexist, or that the army thinks that all women should be ready to have sex at any time while on tour in the desert.

When they have rules such as this surrounding the recruitment of people even into the reserves, I cannot imaging that many people would make it into the regular army on conscription.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ts the taking part thatMan
36 weeks ago

southampton

"My answer is still no. Our Armed Forces should be made up of professionals, who are there by choice.

You also don't need to join the forces to learn all the important life skills in the OP. Most people have them, without ever needing to join the Forces."

Our armed forces would still be professionals, this about lower level operations & not armed manoeuvres or conflict.

It's a great idea if it can instill mutual & self respect & the discipline most do not have due to poor upbringing.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *esthetic21Man
36 weeks ago

Birmingham/Bristol

Hell no. You think I'm going out harming others because the idiots in power want to argue

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

I'm still struggling with the funding aspect. That aside National Service was to ensure we had people of fighting age in a semi fit state to defend the country wasn't it? Now it seems to be about teaching youngsters the value of hard work and discipline. That really isn't what the armed forces are for, we shouldn't be placing our youngsters in the hands of the military to do the job that should and in most cases has already been done.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Who would people be fighting for?

The Monarchy is a busted flush,Parliament in in the hands of vested interests,the banks & Corporate interests so WHAT & who should people take up arms against?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ighting 50Man
36 weeks ago

Retford

"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.

It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.

Also as an ex military person

A two year stint learning a trade that is beneficial to themselves and society is of benefit to all

Unfortunately too many people see itvas fighting or being on the front line but service people are

Accountants

Logistics management

Engineers

Surveyors

Mechanics

Doctors

Nurses

Fire Crew

The list goes on

Real on the ground training to use in life

Better than an apprenticeship with a college that doesn't assess them and employers that abiluse the system

Sorry became a rant

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"Who would people be fighting for?

The Monarchy is a busted flush,Parliament in in the hands of vested interests,the banks & Corporate interests so WHAT & who should people take up arms against?

There doesn't seem to be a clear idea as to what the purpose of conscription/national service would be other than a fairly hazy notion of discipline and work ethic. I guess the more cannon fodder there is the fewer regular military get killed.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.

It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.

Also as an ex military person

A two year stint learning a trade that is beneficial to themselves and society is of benefit to all

Unfortunately too many people see itvas fighting or being on the front line but service people are

Accountants

Logistics management

Engineers

Surveyors

Mechanics

Doctors

Nurses

Fire Crew

The list goes on

Real on the ground training to use in life

Better than an apprenticeship with a college that doesn't assess them and employers that abiluse the system

Sorry became a rant"

Are you saying that you'd like all training to be carried out by the military?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
36 weeks ago

The Town by The Cross

Look .......... as long as they don't make it womandatory or ageatory i'm not worrying.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

Oh and colleges do assess them if you know of any that don't or employers that abuse apprentices you should be contacting the relevant authority.

Also when did the military become free of abuse?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *idewillyMan
36 weeks ago

portsmouth

Nope….but you can enlist every politician…most would run a mile

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"Oh and colleges do assess them if you know of any that don't or employers that abuse apprentices you should be contacting the relevant authority.

Also when did the military become free of abuse?"

Read that wrong. Employers who abuse the system not the apprentices.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *cidcassual88Man
36 weeks ago

Glasshoughton

Posted this before ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ris GrayMan
36 weeks ago

Dorchester

Yes it should

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"Has anyone said how this would be funded yet and who'd be doing the Sunday shift in the supermarket if all the students were marching in formation somewhere?

No, it’s just an old man wank fantasy. It’s quite sad really."

A very old man wank fantasy. Anyone with direct experience of UK national service must be in their mid 80s in age. Conscription for NS was stopped for anyone born after 1st October 1939.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *mateur100Man
36 weeks ago

nr faversham

Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse "

What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *batMan
36 weeks ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

Simple, straight no.

Who's paying?

What's it for?

Why so may assumptions that "kids these days [insert negative trait here] ..."

There have been some shocking stories about behaviour within the military. Why are so many assuming that this is the best place for training people who don't want to be there?

We've got some great service personnel. Why dilute that with people who have no interest.

And finally from me, let's get some support for better parenting rather than conscription into the military.

Gbat

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *cflirtyMan
36 weeks ago

hants/ w sussex border

Maybe not mandatory.. but should be much better promoted. But then as an ex... I am biased

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"Simple, straight no.

Who's paying?

What's it for?

Why so may assumptions that "kids these days [insert negative trait here] ..."

There have been some shocking stories about behaviour within the military. Why are so many assuming that this is the best place for training people who don't want to be there?

We've got some great service personnel. Why dilute that with people who have no interest.

And finally from me, let's get some support for better parenting rather than conscription into the military.

Gbat "

Nobody seems able to answer these questions.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *cflirtyMan
36 weeks ago

hants/ w sussex border

Not all training is as harsh as its made out to be by some...

It installs core values , support for one another as well as discipline

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"Not all training is as harsh as its made out to be by some...

It installs core values , support for one another as well as discipline"

All the people I've met who are ex military or did national service, have nothing good to say. The only exception was my Grandad. He liked the military life and felt it did him good, from 1945-1958 but I think it's a wee bit different now

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Just here to say absolutely fucking not. Ew.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *mateur100Man
36 weeks ago

nr faversham

"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse

What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?"

Too many in my experience

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *alguyMan
36 weeks ago

Gibraltar & Manchester

Like anything there are pros and cons to such a suggestion. But its safe to say that circa 2024 that particular ship has long sailed.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *cflirtyMan
36 weeks ago

hants/ w sussex border

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse

What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?

Too many in my experience "

What is your experience?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *cflirtyMan
36 weeks ago

hants/ w sussex border

"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse

What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?

Too many in my experience "

All work shy

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"Has anyone said how this would be funded yet and who'd be doing the Sunday shift in the supermarket if all the students were marching in formation somewhere?

No, it’s just an old man wank fantasy. It’s quite sad really.

A very old man wank fantasy. Anyone with direct experience of UK national service must be in their mid 80s in age. Conscription for NS was stopped for anyone born after 1st October 1939. "

My dad was born 26/09/39 so just missed having to do it at all….

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"Has anyone said how this would be funded yet and who'd be doing the Sunday shift in the supermarket if all the students were marching in formation somewhere?

No, it’s just an old man wank fantasy. It’s quite sad really.

A very old man wank fantasy. Anyone with direct experience of UK national service must be in their mid 80s in age. Conscription for NS was stopped for anyone born after 1st October 1939.

My dad was born 26/09/39 so just missed having to do it at all…."

My Dad was born in June 1939 and he did National Service. It didn't teach him much at all, he spent part of it having his knee fixed, having injured it playing rugby! He's never been (and still isn't) the sort of person to enjoy being shouted at and told what to do.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse

What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?

Too many in my experience

All work shy "

So true. Most of them are unemployed.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *orthern StarsCouple
36 weeks ago

Durham

"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse

What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?

Too many in my experience

All work shy

So true. Most of them are unemployed. "

I know quite a few 18-30 year olds (and younger) who work their socks off. I hardly think it's fair to tarnish them all with the same brush.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse

What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?

Too many in my experience

All work shy

So true. Most of them are unemployed. "

Bloody youngsters! *Tuts*

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"Good luck with this. The young, gym fit, mouthy, entitled yet not in a job 18-30s will doubtless have a medical or mental excuse

What percentage of 18-30s fall in to that category?

Too many in my experience

All work shy

So true. Most of them are unemployed. "

And listening to popular beat combos on their parents gramophone.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ustAnotherMan
36 weeks ago

wherever I may roam

Such a lot of bollocks in this thread.

Want to know the reality? Go look at the economically inactive report published just last week.

Check your own facts with reality. Hey don't let that get in the way of fifty years of the everliving "kids today should have done national service" bullshit debate though

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *annibal_LickedherMan
36 weeks ago

The Side of the Mersey

As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

I think discipline and respect could be taught by doing service in the emergency services as much as the military. I think it helps the country out and I think it could find careers for people who wouldn’t normally go down that route if there wasn’t a reason otherwise.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hedark_knightMan
36 weeks ago

Edinburgh

No. But working in a service based role, i.e hospitality or retail should be.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

What would they do?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *annibal_LickedherMan
36 weeks ago

The Side of the Mersey

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?"

I think so. There’s a role that everyone could do between the military and the emergency services.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?

I think so. There’s a role that everyone could do between the military and the emergency services. "

What would the wages be and who would pay them?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ad NannaWoman
36 weeks ago

East London

I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.

Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?

I think so. There’s a role that everyone could do between the military and the emergency services. "

Who will do the jobs that young people currently are doing then? What role do you forsee in the emergency services for young people who, for example, have disabilities?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *annibal_LickedherMan
36 weeks ago

The Side of the Mersey

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

What would they do? "

Whatever they want. There are a lot of different roles between the military and the emergency services.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.

Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.

True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *smith87Man
36 weeks ago

totton

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?

I think so. There’s a role that everyone could do between the military and the emergency services.

Who will do the jobs that young people currently are doing then? What role do you forsee in the emergency services for young people who, for example, have disabilities? "

It would surely be how it was in the passed certain medical standards

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *annibal_LickedherMan
36 weeks ago

The Side of the Mersey

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?

I think so. There’s a role that everyone could do between the military and the emergency services.

Who will do the jobs that young people currently are doing then? What role do you forsee in the emergency services for young people who, for example, have disabilities? "

That would depend on what the disability is. But the emergency services doesn’t necessarily mean front line.

As for filling jobs that young people are currently doing…… well I did say start national service by the age of 21 so people could do those jobs before they join up.

Caveat. I don’t have all the answers but people more educated than me could make it work.

I just think it would be good.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ild_oatsMan
36 weeks ago

the land of saints & sinners

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?"

Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.

Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….

BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ad NannaWoman
36 weeks ago

East London

"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.

Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.

True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are. "

I know a lot of teenagers and a miniscule amount of them don't want to work hard.

Lord knows who would be doing their jobs if they had been made to do national service.

Imagine doing 4 years straight out of school then trying to join the profession you wanted a career in, to find you're not wanted because you're too old.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
36 weeks ago

Liverpool

"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.

It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.

I concur. 100%. Not something to be forced to do except in extremis. Without being remotely cynical I don't want to serve alongside anyone who doesn't want to be there, or isn't suitable. I NEED to be able to put my like in the hands of the person next to me - and vice versa. I'm all for some form of service to the nation, just not military service, unless it's voluntary on the part of the individual. Better to have a few who are actually there because they want to serve the rest of the nation.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?

Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.

Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….

BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up. "

No one born after 1st October 1939 has done conscripted National Service in the UK. Like we said earlier, it's wank fodder for those whose rose tinted specs were last cleaned when horn-rims were all the rage and before Elvis was invented.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ad NannaWoman
36 weeks ago

East London

Respect isn't taught in the armed forces. Fear is.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?

Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.

Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….

BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up. "

It frightens me that so many people seem happy to hand responsibility for instilling the states idea of respect and discipline into youngsters.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.

Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.

True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are.

I know a lot of teenagers and a miniscule amount of them don't want to work hard.

Lord knows who would be doing their jobs if they had been made to do national service.

Imagine doing 4 years straight out of school then trying to join the profession you wanted a career in, to find you're not wanted because you're too old."

We both worked with teenagers. Very few lacked respect and even fewer lacked discipline. The ones that did faced consequences. It's amusing to me that people imagine the older generation all have discipline, a strong work ethic and respect everyone.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"I’m ex military and I’m dead against military conscription.

It’s better to have a smaller, fully professional force extremely well trained.

Isn't working and paying tax a service to the nation?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.

Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.

True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are.

I know a lot of teenagers and a miniscule amount of them don't want to work hard.

Lord knows who would be doing their jobs if they had been made to do national service.

Imagine doing 4 years straight out of school then trying to join the profession you wanted a career in, to find you're not wanted because you're too old.

It amuses me that so many people chat on like they themselves did conscripted national service. I didn't realise so many set their ages THAT far from reality

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *annibal_LickedherMan
36 weeks ago

The Side of the Mersey

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?

Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.

Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….

BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up.

It frightens me that so many people seem happy to hand responsibility for instilling the states idea of respect and discipline into youngsters. "

By the way…… I didn’t say serve in the military. I said serve in the military or the emergency services…….Fire brigade, police, paramedics, hospitals? I also didn’t say I’m right. I just said it’s my opinion. I don’t think the military is for everyone.

Maybe national service should be compulsory with certain exceptions (I don’t know what they would be) I don’t know how it would be funded…… maybe by not paying benefits to all the people that would be on the dole if they weren’t doing national service?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.

Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.

True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are.

I know a lot of teenagers and a miniscule amount of them don't want to work hard.

Lord knows who would be doing their jobs if they had been made to do national service.

Imagine doing 4 years straight out of school then trying to join the profession you wanted a career in, to find you're not wanted because you're too old.

It amuses me that so many people chat on like they themselves did conscripted national service. I didn't realise so many set their ages THAT far from reality

My dad as you know was born in 1927. He wasn't allowed to do national service as he'd been exposed to radiation. He started work at 14 (during WW2) and continued until he was 70. Remains respectful and shows respect to everyone. Incredibly all without state intervention.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
36 weeks ago

North West

"I know people who were in the armed forces who are terrible people.

Being in the armed forces or emergency services does not make you a better person.

True and being a young person doesn't make you undisciplined, disrespectful and work shy but here we are.

I know a lot of teenagers and a miniscule amount of them don't want to work hard.

Lord knows who would be doing their jobs if they had been made to do national service.

Imagine doing 4 years straight out of school then trying to join the profession you wanted a career in, to find you're not wanted because you're too old.

It amuses me that so many people chat on like they themselves did conscripted national service. I didn't realise so many set their ages THAT far from reality

Whereas frankly, my Dad is a bit of a dick but did do national service! I wish national service had taught him a bunch of useful life skills. Learning how to fire a gun and iron stuff hasn't really enhanced his life. He does, bizarrely, remember his number though. He can't remember how to lock a door but does know that

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?

Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.

Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….

BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up.

It frightens me that so many people seem happy to hand responsibility for instilling the states idea of respect and discipline into youngsters.

Young people in work or education far outnumber those on benefits, I don't think that's the amswer.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

For anyone wanting to become a serving member of parliament then yes I absolutely agree…for those of us who just want to crack on with life enjoy it then no..leave us be

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *restonCouple555Couple
36 weeks ago

preston

If you think about it, it's as arbitrary and illogical as forcing every single school leaver to do a PhD in biochemistry.

Being a soldier is a vocational profession. The army is a highly-specialised workplace. This is not well understood by headbangers who think it should be used as a blunt tool to punish anyone they reckon isn't as "hard" as they are.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ild_oatsMan
36 weeks ago

the land of saints & sinners

The people who propose the return of national service either civil or military on the whole tend to also advocate longer prison sentences or the return of capital punishment.

These are very simplistic solutions that are encouraged by popularist politicians and tabloids to increase their influence by the use of dog whistle politics.

What is actually needed are complex solutions and often a multifaceted approach that often seems counter intuitive. There are plenty of examples of where this works and the whip crack approach does not.

This however does not sell newspapers or increase votes at the ballot box.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ools and the brainCouple
36 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.

Yes

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *restonCouple555Couple
36 weeks ago

preston

I would add that while the armed forces already have a pretty impressive track record in finding youths who may otherwise have gone astray and giving them purpose and belonging, they have also always been among the most vociferous critics of any scheme that proposes to use them as a dumping ground for those perceived to lack discipline or moral fibre.

There is only one demographic who persistently advocates for mandatory national service. It is a demographic whose favourite political solutions are always very simple and don't require them, personally, to do anything.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ilddukeMan
36 weeks ago

notts

Yes

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *atnip make me purrWoman
36 weeks ago

Reading

No. I am a pacifist so would never fight in any war.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ools and the brainCouple
36 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.

"I would add that while the armed forces already have a pretty impressive track record in finding youths who may otherwise have gone astray and giving them purpose and belonging, they have also always been among the most vociferous critics of any scheme that proposes to use them as a dumping ground for those perceived to lack discipline or moral fibre.

You are making a lot of assumptions how can you say that it's always a certain demographic, what's your evidence to back to this up please?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iltsTSgirlTV/TS
36 weeks ago

chichester

"Respect isn't taught in the armed forces. Fear is."

Have you served

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Ex raf and no they don’t teach fear, however they do teach, discipline, respect, teamwork, responsibility for ones actions, trades, compassion, and in most cases self respect and dignity. Yes national service should be mandatory, straight after a levels for two years. Would transform our younger generation. 6 weeks basic training and all the moaning about what colour there day is !

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"Ex raf and no they don’t teach fear, however they do teach, discipline, respect, teamwork, responsibility for ones actions, trades, compassion, and in most cases self respect and dignity. Yes national service should be mandatory, straight after a levels for two years. Would transform our younger generation. 6 weeks basic training and all the moaning about what colour there day is !"

Are the virtues you describe possessed by everyone who's ever served in the armed forces and only instilled by doing so?

Serious question, why do you believe the younger generation need transforming?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"As somebody currently serving in the army, no I don’t think everyone should have to serve in the armed forces.

However. I think everyone should have to spend 4 years in the military or one of the emergency services. I think that should have to be started before the age of 21 too.

Everyone? No exceptions?

Why don’t we just militarise the whole of society while we are at it.

Maybe even invent a fake national emergency or even an enemy we can mobilise the population against….

BTW when did you last do national service in the UK … That doesn’t mean you voluntarily joined up.

It frightens me that so many people seem happy to hand responsibility for instilling the states idea of respect and discipline into youngsters.

Who would pay for people to work on the emergency services? Also, do you know how competitive it is to become a paramedic, and now you want to let anyone do it?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

Absolutely this, the world is complicated, there are no simple solutions.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *annia440Man
36 weeks ago

greater London

As an ex regular and current reservist, I don't think mandatory conscription for the regular armed forces is the way to go, But do agree that the armed forces is woefully undermanned and underfunded, maybe something along the lines of increasing the reserves, a mandatory amount of weekends, like some other European country's, on a just incase scenario

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *batMan
36 weeks ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

On previous threads, you had people bemoaning the state of policing in the UK, the lack of proper vetting, the inclusion of the wrong people.

Now some are advocating for conscription into the police.

Regardless of some people's opinions, policing, fire service, paramedic, ambulance technician, they are all highly skilled jobs with a very competitive entry process. Those professions turn away thousands of people who are trying hard to get in as they don't yet cut the mustard. But hey ho, let's pay a bunch of people who don't want to be there to do a job that's really quite vocational.

"in my day, (when we didn't have NS) there was none of this youngsters having 'feelings and emotions', just a desire to work really hard for the Queen, God bless her soul." [Polishes rose tinted specs and pours another cuppa]

Gbat

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *restonCouple555Couple
36 weeks ago

preston

You are making a lot of assumptions how can you say that it's always a certain demographic, what's your evidence to back to this up please?"

I mean, I don't really need evidence:

The idea of "national service for everyone" is an objectively simplistic solution to what is also objectively a nuanced set of complex problems. And therefore a certain failure.

Anyone who knows anything about political history will know that it's the kind of broad-stroke, crowd-pleasing rhetoric favoured by demagogues and their followers (see also "send them back", "lock them up", "bring back hanging" etc.), not by progressives.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *arlot o scaraWoman
36 weeks ago

Hell

You are making a lot of assumptions how can you say that it's always a certain demographic, what's your evidence to back to this up please?

I mean, I don't really need evidence:

The idea of "national service for everyone" is an objectively simplistic solution to what is also objectively a nuanced set of complex problems. And therefore a certain failure.

Well said

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *rx1Couple
36 weeks ago

North of Okehampton, South of Bideford

Can you imagine it, Military Service compulsory !!!

The Wokes of this world would complain it was against their human rights or bad for the mental Health and any other card they could drag out of the back pocket.

We would love to see it, but feel we would be in the minority

We have both done our bit in uniform, but by choice. It didn't do us any harm and if we had our time over again, we would do the same.

PS Thanks for the Pensions Guys...lol.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
36 weeks ago

Because they are a shower of privileged moaning shit bags with no or little work ethic.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *cnugatugMan
36 weeks ago

Chatham

You honestly wouldn't want me to have a gun I suffer from ADHD and have frequent black outs so some people shouldn't be made to go into the military

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
36 weeks ago

Cumbria

"Can you imagine it, Military Service compulsory !!!

The Wokes of this world would complain it was against their human rights or bad for the mental Health and any other card they could drag out of the back pocket.

We would love to see it, but feel we would be in the minority

We have both done our bit in uniform, but by choice. It didn't do us any harm and if we had our time over again, we would do the same.

PS Thanks for the Pensions Guys...lol."

You’re welcome, you chose to serve and therefore you should get the appropriate pension. It’s not going to be even close to the amount you’re paying for mine

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
36 weeks ago

East Sussex

"Because they are a shower of privileged moaning shit bags with no or little work ethic.

Who are?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ad NannaWoman
36 weeks ago

East London

"Because they are a shower of privileged moaning shit bags with no or little work ethic.

Shouldn't you be working?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ad NannaWoman
36 weeks ago

East London

"Because they are a shower of privileged moaning shit bags with no or little work ethic.

Who are? "

Middle aged men who wank on company time, instead of being productive. I've come across loads online over the years.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *enfella4uMan
36 weeks ago

staffs

I think military is a good form of discipline and trains you for so much. I spent most of my younger life in military life and I am a better man for it so I think yes military should be a highly chosen career for some individuals

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *restonCouple555Couple
36 weeks ago

preston

"Can you imagine it, Military Service compulsory !!!

The Wokes of this world would complain it was against their human rights or bad for the mental Health and any other card they could drag out of the back pocket.

We would love to see it, but feel we would be in the minority

We have both done our bit in uniform, but by choice. It didn't do us any harm and if we had our time over again, we would do the same.

PS Thanks for the Pensions Guys...lol."

All joking aside: yes, forced labour is against human rights, and it's hardly a stretch to imagine that it would be harmful to a person's mental health to be put in that position. Is it that you disagree with that, or that you don't care?

It may not have done you any harm, but as you say, you chose to do it. I wonder if you'd be so cavalier about your own rights and health if the government forced you into a career you wouldn't have chosen.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *mateur100Man
36 weeks ago

nr faversham

"Can you imagine it, Military Service compulsory !!!

The Wokes of this world would complain it was against their human rights or bad for the mental Health and any other card they could drag out of the back pocket.

We would love to see it, but feel we would be in the minority

We have both done our bit in uniform, but by choice. It didn't do us any harm and if we had our time over again, we would do the same.

PS Thanks for the Pensions Guys...lol.

And therein lies the problem

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ad HardcoreMan
36 weeks ago

A Chippy Near You...

"I think military is a good form of discipline and trains you for so much. I spent most of my younger life in military life and I am a better man for it so I think yes military should be a highly chosen career for some individuals "

No issue at all with the above comment

Operative term however being...'Chosen Career.'

Freedom of choice! Come on in. The water's lovely

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Because they are a shower of privileged moaning shit bags with no or little work ethic.

“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.” Plato (attributed to Socrates), 4th century BCE

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *naswingdressWoman
36 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

I still want to know how we pay for all of this.

Should we just cut the road repair budget? That might do it. We don't need better roads.

Or schools. Or other public services. None of them are falling the fuck apart

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hagTonight OP Man
36 weeks ago

From the land of haribos.

Its been an interesting discussion everyone. I have done a new thread that we can continue on

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hagTonight OP Man
36 weeks ago

From the land of haribos.

Its been an interesting discussion everyone

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately