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The tory mps who are against it not on principle or damage to countryside but more to do with the never in my back yard brigade.
Yes it will speed up journeys but do not think it will result in cheaper travel costs. | |||
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"At 170mph it aint going to be in anyones back garden very long is it. "Not funny and very funny all at the same time | |||
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"Can anyone explain how we make commercial quantities of electricity pollution free. Why are we going to use 50 year old technology to get us through to the next century. Trains were modern at the start of the 20th century, now they are just old." Not wrong so what transport should we be looking to use? | |||
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"Can anyone explain how we make commercial quantities of electricity pollution free. Why are we going to use 50 year old technology to get us through to the next century. Trains were modern at the start of the 20th century, now they are just old." Isn't the modern production of electricity less polluting than running trains on Diesel?.... | |||
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"How about maglev for a start. Once its built on stilts its out of the way. Super fast and no noise pollution. " Sounds very expensive though is it? | |||
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"How about maglev for a start. Once its built on stilts its out of the way. Super fast and no noise pollution. Sounds very expensive though is it?" £1 million a mile. in China. So ten times that in the UK | |||
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"Given the title of this thread its safe to assume it wont be passing over the OP's bridge at anytime in the future.." Not sure its going as far as Bradford to be honest.  | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it?" what makes them softies??? Genuine question | |||
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"Only if your a sitting Tory MP. Wind farms cost more to put up than they ever generate. Gas is far to expensive. Coal is cheap but has to be imported due to a certain woman deciding it was best for her image. Nuclear is cheap and clean till you have to get rid of the waste. The early waste disposal methods are already failing and still have 50,000 years to go yet. Electricity isnt clean to make unfortunately." Does Maglev not use electricity? It does seem very interesting but the Germans put the potential cost at more like 35 million Euros per Kilometre, is £1 million a mile realistic in a Westernised nation? | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it? what makes them softies??? Genuine question" Its a pretty common saying up here google it it pops up 231,000 times. | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it? what makes them softies??? Genuine question" Posted for effect, and in the hope of offending sections of the forums I should imagine. Shame really as the rail link is a good subject to debate. | |||
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"Only if your a sitting Tory MP. Wind farms cost more to put up than they ever generate. Gas is far to expensive. Coal is cheap but has to be imported due to a certain woman deciding it was best for her image. Nuclear is cheap and clean till you have to get rid of the waste. The early waste disposal methods are already failing and still have 50,000 years to go yet. Electricity isnt clean to make unfortunately. Does Maglev not use electricity? It does seem very interesting but the Germans put the potential cost at more like 35 million Euros per Kilometre, is £1 million a mile realistic in a Westernised nation?" Thats because we have a lot more palms to fill than China. The rich didnt get that way by being generous. Maglev would outlast and outperform the HS2, but not one MP has shares in any of the companies that make it. | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it? what makes them softies??? Genuine question Its a pretty common saying up here google it it pops up 231,000 times. " as does troll but that gets 149,000,000.. | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it? what makes them softies??? Genuine question Its a pretty common saying up here google it it pops up 231,000 times. as does troll but that gets 149,000,000.." So what are you saying you are? And do you need another 148,999,999 others to accompany you  | |||
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"Can anyone explain how we make commercial quantities of electricity pollution free. Why are we going to use 50 year old technology to get us through to the next century. Trains were modern at the start of the 20th century, now they are just old." True, not all electricty can be made pollution free but it`s easier to control the pollution e.g. sulphur gas reduction sytems, doesn`t remove the pollution but reduces/minimises it. As for trains being old technology, try looking at trains in Europe and Japan. British trains rae indeed old technology. Even the current Eurostars are well over ten years old and close to being 20 years old. But consider this as well. In 1950s Britain`s railways were predominately steam yet less than 20 years on in the 1970s we had the HSTs which were diesel powered and did the magic 125 mph with a mere fraction of cost in maintainance. Where would our railways be now had the same amount of research been put in as there was then? It has been said that had the railways still been in the hands of BR the West Coast Main Line improvements would have been completed a good ten years before the private sector had started them! | |||
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"Only if your a sitting Tory MP. Wind farms cost more to put up than they ever generate. Gas is far to expensive. Coal is cheap but has to be imported due to a certain woman deciding it was best for her image. Nuclear is cheap and clean till you have to get rid of the waste. The early waste disposal methods are already failing and still have 50,000 years to go yet. Electricity isnt clean to make unfortunately. Does Maglev not use electricity? It does seem very interesting but the Germans put the potential cost at more like 35 million Euros per Kilometre, is £1 million a mile realistic in a Westernised nation? Thats because we have a lot more palms to fill than China. The rich didnt get that way by being generous. Maglev would outlast and outperform the HS2, but not one MP has shares in any of the companies that make it. " Good point, but then again the Chinese average wage for a construction worker is around $175 (US) a month and safety regulations are virtually non existent to protect construction workers. You only have to see how many Chinese construction workers died in the making of the Yangtze dams to get an idea... | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it? what makes them softies??? Genuine question Its a pretty common saying up here google it it pops up 231,000 times. as does troll but that gets 149,000,000.. So what are you saying you are? And do you need another 148,999,999 others to accompany you "can only go by the green arrow fella.. you seem to feel the need to be offensive in your threads.. no need to be.. bit immature really.. hey ho.. | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it? what makes them softies??? Genuine question Posted for effect, and in the hope of offending sections of the forums I should imagine. Shame really as the rail link is a good subject to debate."  | |||
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"Parents live very close to HS1, its not as bad as peeps make out. We had all of this when they announced it. As a country, we have to keep up with the times." I think the trouble is the compensation levels being touted for HS2 are nowhere near as generous as those for HS1, people that had their properties affected in Kent had very reasonable compensation but alas it doesn't seem to be the case for stage 2. | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it? what makes them softies??? Genuine question Its a pretty common saying up here google it it pops up 231,000 times. as does troll but that gets 149,000,000.. So what are you saying you are? And do you need another 148,999,999 others to accompany you
can only go by the green arrow fella..
you seem to feel the need to be offensive in your threads..
no need to be..
bit immature really..
hey ho.."So you ask a question get an answer and then revert to type when you dont like the answer. Southen softie is a pretty common term you dont like the answer so your mature reply is? Im not the one banding the immature word out but then Im not the one initiating snide remarks! If it makes you feel good then feel free bathe in to but I fail to see whats adult about it. | |||
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"In 1950s Britain`s railways were predominately steam yet less than 20 years on in the 1970s we had the HSTs which were diesel powered and did the magic 125 mph " Mallard did 125mph in 1938. That was a steam train 40 years before hand. The new trains will operate at high speed simply because its the only train on the bloody line. Bit like building a brand new motorway and only allowing 1 Bugatti Veyron to use it, then claiming to have reduced drive time from London to Glasgow  | |||
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"I think you'll find there are a few softie northerners that are fucked off by it too. It is all very easy to praise the benefits of the project when you personally aren't likely to be directly affected by its construction and operation." Northern Monkeys is the common one and yeh some will be pissed but its jobs for the north too. The people jumping up and down in the news are in the south in the news report I read thats why I asked. | |||
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"In 1950s Britain`s railways were predominately steam yet less than 20 years on in the 1970s we had the HSTs which were diesel powered and did the magic 125 mph Mallard did 125mph in 1938. That was a steam train 40 years before hand. The new trains will operate at high speed simply because its the only train on the bloody line. Bit like building a brand new motorway and only allowing 1 Bugatti Veyron to use it, then claiming to have reduced drive time from London to Glasgow "Mallard did indeed do 126 mph - ONCE! It then had to stopped with great haste as it was "running a bearing". Steam locomotives cannot stand being run at such high speeds in a sustainable manner. And as for your Bugatti Veyron, how many passengers does it carry? Bet it doesn`t carry 600 plus luggage which what the train will do. Plus it will free up space on current lines to allow more freight back on the rails which is set to expand as much as current passenger levels. | |||
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"In 1950s Britain`s railways were predominately steam yet less than 20 years on in the 1970s we had the HSTs which were diesel powered and did the magic 125 mph Mallard did 125mph in 1938. That was a steam train 40 years before hand. The new trains will operate at high speed simply because its the only train on the bloody line. Bit like building a brand new motorway and only allowing 1 Bugatti Veyron to use it, then claiming to have reduced drive time from London to Glasgow
Mallard did indeed do 126 mph - ONCE! It then had to stopped with great haste as it was "running a bearing". Steam locomotives cannot stand being run at such high speeds in a sustainable manner. And as for your Bugatti Veyron, how many passengers does it carry? Bet it doesn`t carry 600 plus luggage which what the train will do. Plus it will free up space on current lines to allow more freight back on the rails which is set to expand as much as current passenger levels."All of the figures are guess work. Its one train going from London Euston to Birmingham New St. with one stop en-route. It wont be High speed when it reaches London or Birmingham due to restrictions. It wont come in on time or budget and will offer little in time saving. Cost will quadruple as everything else the public funds does. Completion date will end up in the 2030s if we are lucky. In the words of Johnny Mathis "its all a dream, an illusion now" Buy it and see if I am wrong ??? | |||
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"Not bothered. HS1 passes very close to our house. HS2 is just another train. Albeit in someone else's backyard" Not in ours, we only just got the entire street re-cobbled. The new gas lights wont like it either | |||
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"Only if your a sitting Tory MP. Wind farms cost more to put up than they ever generate. Gas is far to expensive. Coal is cheap but has to be imported due to a certain woman deciding it was best for her image. Nuclear is cheap and clean till you have to get rid of the waste. The early waste disposal methods are already failing and still have 50,000 years to go yet. Electricity isnt clean to make unfortunately." Scientists are looking at Nikola Teslas's idea for cheap clean electricity. They're probably working out how to make a profit from it as Tesla's would have been virtually free..and wireless | |||
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" Scientists are looking at Nikola Teslas's idea for cheap clean electricity. They're probably working out how to make a profit from it as Tesla's would have been virtually free..and wireless " They said the same thing about Nuclear Electricity in the 1950s. To cheap to bother putting meters in. Nothing is free, unless you count shagging. Thats only because they haven't worked out how to tax it yet | |||
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"My view as a Southern Softie and a railway enthusiast this country needs HS2 Most seem to think it`s only to make it easy for people to commute to London which is totally missing the point. HS2 is just a small part of a Europe wide High Speed railway network. It may not be apparent now but the so-called low cost airlines are getting more expensive and before it will be just as expensive to travel by plane as well as train. Also, how the hell do you control the pollution air craft engines produce? With HS2 and the rest of the system being electric powered the main scource of energy production can be pollution free! A lot has also been made about the noise. Those who are convinced of this should travel to countryside sections of HS1 in Kent. The only noise you`ll get is when a train passes and because of the headway needed due to the speed and stopping distances, trains will be passing less frequently than you`d think. " The jury is out on how HS1 has benefited east kent. We were promised job creation, but all it has brought is a influx of people moving out of london to buy houses cheaper and the commuting back to london on the HS1. So pushes rental prices and houses prices up even further here in kent. The Trains aren't even built in britain - as far as i know they are built in Japan and maintained in Ashford(Hitachi). | |||
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"At 170mph it aint going to be in anyones back garden very long is it. "Had to chuckle at the logic of that.  | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it?" Dude if only you understood the truth behind it no offence intended but simply by your staement I can tell you don't it's a long story to explain but I am against the whole idea for many many reasons | |||
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"Cost of HS2AA Birmingham to Manchester has already gone up £2 billion from the estimate. Not even started and the gravy trains is gathering speed. HS2 the all new "get unbelievably rich quick train ride". Brought to you by the colour BLUE and the NUMBER 10 "I agree with most of what you say but unfortunately it's a cross party xoncensuss they all support it | |||
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"At 170mph it aint going to be in anyones back garden very long is it.
Had to chuckle at the logic of that. "16 trains an hour at 200 odd is pretty mich one every thirty odd second and it's 600 meters long it's pretty much always there I would be more worried about when not if it comes off the track | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it? what makes them softies??? Genuine question" nowt wrong with soft - I am soft. Anyway which one? soft as in feels like silk soft as in - namby pamby soft as in - the head? c'mon then, purrem up  | |||
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"Sad thing is this will not benefit us in jobs or national prestige like it has the French and Germans. As some crooked politician will award contract to the japs, Germans ect... To build the trains. Alstrom are a major international French train builder, mainly of the back of French govt investing and building high speed rail decades ago, the same can be said for seimens and Hitachi, Thatcher started this nonsence and new labour old Tory one and the same, carried it on. British train builders did not benefit from cross rail order, where jobs should have been created they were instead lost. The irony is that bombardier the said company is actually Canadian. So we can't build our own trains! Like we can't build our own nuclear power stations, The French, Germans, Japs, will be the ones benefiting from these major infrastructure spends in the coming future. Can't see how we can grow our economy or compete when we are foreign owned to such extent. " As much as I am in favour of HS2 this is the bit I don`t like. But having said that I drive a German tractor, The engine is made in FRANCE, the turbocharger is made in HUNGARY, the tyres are made in FINLAND and the wheels are made in ENGLAND. So much for a GERMAN tractor! Oh, and I had a bracket supplied for it the other day and that was amde in INDONESIA!  | |||
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"Rather than a mass grumbling why don't we just get on snd build the bloody thing ? It's needed and its positive. Maglev is pie in the sky and incredibly expensive whereas electric train track is proven technology. Referring to southerners as sofftees is incredibly offensive and inaccurate. The correct term is "shandy drinkers": "it cant be that bad with the shandy drinkers, plenty of northerns seem to want to get here! | |||
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"Sad thing is this will not benefit us in jobs or national prestige like it has the French and Germans. As some crooked politician will award contract to the japs, Germans ect... To build the trains. Alstrom are a major international French train builder, mainly of the back of French govt investing and building high speed rail decades ago, the same can be said for seimens and Hitachi, Thatcher started this nonsence and new labour old Tory one and the same, carried it on. British train builders did not benefit from cross rail order, where jobs should have been created they were instead lost. The irony is that bombardier the said company is actually Canadian. So we can't build our own trains! Like we can't build our own nuclear power stations, The French, Germans, Japs, will be the ones benefiting from these major infrastructure spends in the coming future. Can't see how we can grow our economy or compete when we are foreign owned to such extent. " What an absolute crock of shit that statement is. Building is transient in so much as it provides a job for the relatively short amount of time it takes to build something. Just because this is our little corner of the globe it doesn't mean we have the people and expertise to build a high speed rail network ON TIME and IN BUDGET - we can't even get the bloody trains running on time once the network is built fgs, and if foreign companies are offering a better price and quality of workmanship than British workers controlled by unions and handcuffed by the HSE then our govt is duty bound to award the contracts to the best company/ies available to do the job. Being British is not a requirement. | |||
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" it cant be that bad with the shandy drinkers, plenty of northerns seem to want to get here!" It's more missionary work than want. A social obligation to try and civilise the South. ...  | |||
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"Surely it means lots of jobs for people to build it?" You assume that the contracts to built are going to go to English firms - something this government has a shoddy record of doing. As for HS2 - we don't need it. 200mph trains (up to 400ft long apparently)? Running up and down half of an island thats only 874miles from tip to toe (by road)? Why, for the love of God, why? Take the £2bn its costing. Buy back the rail system from the private companies who are destroying it. Upgrade it and make it affordable mass transport system or both people and goods. Then fix the roads. Offer haulage companies tax incentives and discounts to run their freight at night when the roads are quiet, which will help to alleviate traffic in the days. We don't need another rail link that will be broken in 10 years time. We need to fix whats there. ...and that, my friend, is what this 'Southern Softie' thinks about it! | |||
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"The term southern softie is very offensive how would you like a thread starting with D N B " Wouldn't care, I think it's cause us flat cap wearing, whippet racing pigeon fanciers have a sense of humour | |||
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"The term southern softie is very offensive how would you like a thread starting with D N B Wouldn't care, I think it's cause us flat cap wearing, whippet racing pigeon fanciers have a sense of humour "I used to live in North Yorkshire and yes you do need a sense of humour to live there | |||
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"The term southern softie is very offensive how would you like a thread starting with D N B Wouldn't care, I think it's cause us flat cap wearing, whippet racing pigeon fanciers have a sense of humour
I used to live in North Yorkshire and yes you do need a sense of humour to live there "Did you leave cause it was too northern? | |||
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"The term southern softie is very offensive how would you like a thread starting with D N B Wouldn't care, I think it's cause us flat cap wearing, whippet racing pigeon fanciers have a sense of humour
I used to live in North Yorkshire and yes you do need a sense of humour to live there
Did you leave cause it was too northern? "No trying to escape the ex who won't let go  | |||
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"The term southern softie is very offensive how would you like a thread starting with D N B Wouldn't care, I think it's cause us flat cap wearing, whippet racing pigeon fanciers have a sense of humour
I used to live in North Yorkshire and yes you do need a sense of humour to live there
Did you leave cause it was too northern?
No trying to escape the ex who won't let go "Run for the hills | |||
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"Sad thing is this will not benefit us in jobs or national prestige like it has the French and Germans. As some crooked politician will award contract to the japs, Germans ect... To build the trains. Alstrom are a major international French train builder, mainly of the back of French govt investing and building high speed rail decades ago, the same can be said for seimens and Hitachi, Thatcher started this nonsence and new labour old Tory one and the same, carried it on. British train builders did not benefit from cross rail order, where jobs should have been created they were instead lost. The irony is that bombardier the said company is actually Canadian. So we can't build our own trains! Like we can't build our own nuclear power stations, The French, Germans, Japs, will be the ones benefiting from these major infrastructure spends in the coming future. Can't see how we can grow our economy or compete when we are foreign owned to such extent. What an absolute crock of shit that statement is. Building is transient in so much as it provides a job for the relatively short amount of time it takes to build something. Just because this is our little corner of the globe it doesn't mean we have the people and expertise to build a high speed rail network ON TIME and IN BUDGET - we can't even get the bloody trains running on time once the network is built fgs, and if foreign companies are offering a better price and quality of workmanship than British workers controlled by unions and handcuffed by the HSE then our govt is duty bound to award the contracts to the best company/ies available to do the job. Being British is not a requirement." What a load! Building is transient pah! assembly can be but ha is not where the skilled work is, why do you think the successful economies . Germany for examble build things! They as just about every other G8 country buy from national companies. Savings are then made from the fact you are keeping the majority of invested monies circulating in the country. You know things like jobs= income tax, consumer spend, the companies you support = corporation tax, research and development,the possibillty of the company in future gaining lucrative contracts in developing industrial nations, e.g. india and china. Or undeveloping nations like the UK! Do you work in the city or something! That free market idiology you have has served our country well lol, massive trade deficit, current account in the red, longest working hours and poorest labour rights in Europe so we are pretty inefficient I guess :/ [end/quote] | |||
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"My view as a Southern Softie and a railway enthusiast this country needs HS2 Most seem to think it`s only to make it easy for people to commute to London which is totally missing the point. HS2 is just a small part of a Europe wide High Speed railway network. It may not be apparent now but the so-called low cost airlines are getting more expensive and before it will be just as expensive to travel by plane as well as train. Also, how the hell do you control the pollution air craft engines produce? With HS2 and the rest of the system being electric powered the main scource of energy production can be pollution free! A lot has also been made about the noise. Those who are convinced of this should travel to countryside sections of HS1 in Kent. The only noise you`ll get is when a train passes and because of the headway needed due to the speed and stopping distances, trains will be passing less frequently than you`d think. " Actually this.... Plus in the long run if they are smart and link it to airport stations as well as city centres... You will find there will be less planes as well on short routes... Give you an example...... They don't fly planes from Paris to Brussels anymore... Why? Quicker and easier to do it on a train.. London to Paris flights have been cut by 75%. London to Brussels by 80% they have just stopped flights from Brussels to Amsterdam because another high speed line has gone in and cut the journey time to 2 hrs There wouldn't be the need for as many domestic flight routes.. | |||
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" Actually this.... Plus in the long run if they are smart and link it to airport stations as well as city centres... You will find there will be less planes as well on short routes... Give you an example...... They don't fly planes from Paris to Brussels anymore... Why? Quicker and easier to do it on a train.. London to Paris flights have been cut by 75%. London to Brussels by 80% they have just stopped flights from Brussels to Amsterdam because another high speed line has gone in and cut the journey time to 2 hrs There wouldn't be the need for as many domestic flight routes.." Exactly! How far out of the centre of London is Heathrow, Gatwick et al? Glasgow Prestwick is over 20 miles away from Glasgow whereas the train takes you to the centre! What you save in time in the air you lose in road transfers and the extra cost of those! | |||
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