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Second chances

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

A man breaks the law when a young teenager, he gets a sentance in a young offenders centre.

He doesn't offend again, gets married, has a family, joins the fire service and works there for 22 years.

He then has a CRB check as he was going to be working with youngsters connected to a charity and the FS find out that the CRB check brought up his conviction and sack him for not disclosing it.

Now ok, he should have told them about it, but if he had they probably wouldn't have employed him and wouldn't have had 22 years of good service from him.

It does seem extreme to get rid of someone who has given good service in a job for 22 years because they had a conviction in their youth.

Should a conviction when you are young and often silly count ?

Should convictions be taken into account when looking at the persons life since?

Does this mean second chances will never be given ?

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

What was the offence for? Did he get sacked because he had a criminal record or did he get sacked for not disclosing it.

Im a strong believr in second chancers, i wouldnt be here if people hadnt given me a second chance, but im sure it would of asked on his work contract if he had had any convictions.

So im afraid if it did ask then yes he should be sacked for lying on his application form.

If it didnt ask about previous convictions then no as he hasnt done anything wrong

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

[Removed by poster at 14/03/13 11:08:01]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Depends on what the conviction was for. In a case such as your example I think they are silly for sacking him. Also not sure if years ago they even asked about previous convictions when employing people?

People should get second chances. But some people spoil it for others.

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By *nvictusMan
over a year ago

Beeston

Oooo, heavy stuff for a Thursday Ruggers....

I think everyone should be judged on their individual merits, stuff like background checks and the like are just tools to use to do that and should not be a 'one strike and you're out' system.

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By *Ryan-Man
over a year ago

In Your Bush

Did the fire service ask him to disclose it when they employed him?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It depends on what the crime was and how it would affect the job. I know employers are allowed to make their own choice as to how they look at anything that comes up in a crb check due to the job I do.

It may not have been the fact he did the crime but more he hid it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

of course its unfair..keeping the vicious cycle of unemployment through past crimes doesnt help anyone does it?

in any case..it should be termed as a spent conviction regardless

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"What was the offence for? Did he get sacked because he had a criminal record or did he get sacked for not disclosing it.

Im a strong believr in second chancers, i wouldnt be here if people hadnt given me a second chance, but im sure it would of asked on his work contract if he had had any convictions.

So im afraid if it did ask then yes he should be sacked for lying on his application form.

If it didnt ask about previous convictions then no as he hasnt done anything wrong"

He did say he had lied when he applied for the job so I am guessing they sacked him for that. He was messing about with his mates and they went through an open door on a roof and found stuffed stored ( so he said obviously ) and got done for break and enter.

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"Did the fire service ask him to disclose it when they employed him?"

he did say he had lied on his application form about it, so I guess they must have done.

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By *pecifically1Woman
over a year ago

Hull

Biggie for a Thursday.......

Since it has been in the news alot recently, there are monsters out there who have brutally killed defenceless children yet are being allowed a second chance? To integrate into society and live their lives with anonymity....

there are few (not none) victimless crimes.

Second chances should be given on merit and individual cases not crate blanche I am afraid and shoot me for saying so..

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"of course its unfair..keeping the vicious cycle of unemployment through past crimes doesnt help anyone does it?

in any case..it should be termed as a spent conviction regardless"

This is my _iew I think....after all whats the point of rehabilitation in prisons if you will never get a chance to get on with your life.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"What was the offence for? Did he get sacked because he had a criminal record or did he get sacked for not disclosing it.

Im a strong believr in second chancers, i wouldnt be here if people hadnt given me a second chance, but im sure it would of asked on his work contract if he had had any convictions.

So im afraid if it did ask then yes he should be sacked for lying on his application form.

If it didnt ask about previous convictions then no as he hasnt done anything wrong

He did say he had lied when he applied for the job so I am guessing they sacked him for that. He was messing about with his mates and they went through an open door on a roof and found stuffed stored ( so he said obviously ) and got done for break and enter."

In which case im afraid he should be sacked for lying on his application form.

It seems as though it was a silly offence and if he had disclosed it at the beginning he may still have gotten the job.

Relatively minor, but what if it had been something serious he had lied about.

Im guessing it wouldnt have happened today as they would do a crb before they gave him the job

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Depends what the crime was

If it was shop lifting etc I don't see that as a big deal as most kids will pinch something just some get lucky and don't get caught, that does not mean they will be bad adults because they pinched a few things as a dare with their mates as kids

On the other hand some things have to be known, if your working with vulnerable people, if you have any sex offences, violent offences they must be know now matter how young they was when committed

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I think it is sad. A mistake in your youth should not haunt you for the rest of your working lives.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

There is a campaign looking at how to address cases like this.

I don't know this case but, as you state, the sacking was probably for the non-disclosure rather than the original conviction.

We are becoming less forgiving of 'spent' convictions since the introduction of CRB checks. It has been a double edged sword and often an inadequate, blunt tool.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he's getting sacked because of a past conviction. Then wrong. If getting sacked for not disclosing a conviction when asked if had any on getting the job.Then some sort of disciplinary. Yeh. But not sacking. You'll prob find they just want to get rid of him and this is their opportunity without them having an unfair dismissal thrown at them x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Did the fire service ask him to disclose it when they employed him?"

Most application forms ask you to disclose previous criminal convictions even if a CRB check is not required, and 22 yrs ago I am sure the fire service would have.

Now if his crime was not spent when he applied for the job and did not disclose his criminal conviction, then even now they are in there rights to sack him, and I guess in their eyes he would have committed fraud to get the job.

M

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

20 years down the road and no further convictions suggest he should have kept his job to me. Ok it can depend n the reason for his first trip to court but who is to say he isn't a better citizen than people he works with who may have done worse but just not caught.

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"What was the offence for? Did he get sacked because he had a criminal record or did he get sacked for not disclosing it.

Im a strong believr in second chancers, i wouldnt be here if people hadnt given me a second chance, but im sure it would of asked on his work contract if he had had any convictions.

So im afraid if it did ask then yes he should be sacked for lying on his application form.

If it didnt ask about previous convictions then no as he hasnt done anything wrong

He did say he had lied when he applied for the job so I am guessing they sacked him for that. He was messing about with his mates and they went through an open door on a roof and found stuffed stored ( so he said obviously ) and got done for break and enter.

In which case im afraid he should be sacked for lying on his application form.

It seems as though it was a silly offence and if he had disclosed it at the beginning he may still have gotten the job.

"

I guess you are right yes....the man is about 60 now so was embarrased to tell anyone about what he had done as a kid, and I can understand that too.

I can also understand if he had only been in his job for a year but to be in service for that long I would have thought they would have taken that into account when finding his lie.

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"There is a campaign looking at how to address cases like this.

I don't know this case but, as you state, the sacking was probably for the non-disclosure rather than the original conviction.

We are becoming less forgiving of 'spent' convictions since the introduction of CRB checks. It has been a double edged sword and often an inadequate, blunt tool."

Someone suggested having a point system, a bit like the points system on a driving licence.

That could be a better idea.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

22 years ago...

I dont think there was much in the way of CRB checks was there??????- Theres probably thousands of people who would lose their jobs if they had to go through any criminal checks and they are probably quite ashamed of having the conviction.

then to bring it to colleagues (especially after 22years lets say), it does indeed leave me with a horrid taste in my mouth about privacy- and of course..what someone will do with my information

I'd have to assume the fact that he has lied (in fear of losing his established life!!!)- they have no said he is untrustworthy

in my eyes its a long spent conviction...the fact is a punishment should only last as long as its deemed by the courts...for ANY crime

an absolute shame

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Great thread as this has affected me throughout my adult life.....I am a great believer in being honest from the start regarding convictions (if asked). I would not be here today if I had not been given a second chance...However I also have been hindered and ultimately judged on a few occasions..... I think it was harsh what they did but i guess policies and procedures came into play...

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"22 years ago...

I dont think there was much in the way of CRB checks was there??????- Theres probably thousands of people who would lose their jobs if they had to go through any criminal checks and they are probably quite ashamed of having the conviction.

"

I think you are right, on both counts.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"20 years down the road and no further convictions suggest he should have kept his job to me. Ok it can depend n the reason for his first trip to court but who is to say he isn't a better citizen than people he works with who may have done worse but just not caught."

I believe in second chances and have employed people with convictions. But, here is the difficulty. If he lied on his application then that is fraud. You have to apply that consistently across the organisation or you create the circumstances for someone to challenge further down the line. He may have learnt to present a facade of respectability and be a criminal mastermind. We don't know.

What we can guess at is that if this case was presented that the CRB showed he had a previous conviction but nothing since and the employer had given him that second chance but he then was caught and convicted of crime (some heinous for the Red Tops) then there would be an outcry that the CRB warning was ignored.

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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago

Northamptonshire

But we are a nation of double standards. We complain about the criminals being repeat offenders and returning to prison etc. But no one seems to want to take a chance and give these people a chance in life to start again.

Dave

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"But we are a nation of double standards. We complain about the criminals being repeat offenders and returning to prison etc. But no one seems to want to take a chance and give these people a chance in life to start again.

Dave"

Absolutely and what we know is that being given a chance and working is a proven way to stop repeat offending. It is crazy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thought I would just throw this into the mix-

22 years ago a young lad with a young family to support goes for a job with the local Fire Service, after being successful in the initial couple of inter_iews is told sorry but someone has just pipped him to the position. On hearing this news and giving up on finding a job as he's now been turned down on over 40 jobs he's been inter_iewed for and fearing he won't be able to support his family he throws himself in front of a train!!!

I know this is a bit far fetched.........but who knows what the consequences of telling a lie could be?

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol


"I think it is sad. A mistake in your youth should not haunt you for the rest of your working lives.

"

it didnt .. he got sacked for lying as an adult not for having offended when he was a youngster

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ok he lied on an application form but 22 years? sacking him seems a bit excessive. even more excessive if he had an exemplary work record.

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By *atasha_DavidCouple
over a year ago

Slough

CRB is now the Disclosure and Barring Service

Part of the Home Office whose attitude to this is made fairly plain in this from their website
"

Wednesday, 27 Feb 2013

An update on the Court of Appeal ruling

Last month, we told you the Home Office was seeking leave to appeal a Court of Appeal judgment on the disclosure of old and minor convictions. The Court found the law which requires people to disclose all previous convictions and cautions to employers is a breach of human rights. It found the current system disproportionate in dealing with historic and minor spent convictions and cautions.

The Home Secretary and Secretary of State for Justice have recently lodged an application to appeal against this judgment.

Pending the Supreme Court's decision on permission, the Court of Appeal's judgment has been temporarily suspended.

While this suspension is in force, it is business as usual for us. We will continue to issue Standard and Enhanced certificates and these show all convictions and cautions as normal. "

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By *oulou45Woman
over a year ago

Bucks

I think he should of got some kind of warning, not sacked

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By *ixson-BallsMan
over a year ago

Blackpool

the guy is nearly 60, so he started with the fire service around 38

he was in his teens when he committed his crime of B&E...serves about 6 months, then from then on has an unblemished record being a model citizen (you could say the man served his penance and was rehabilitated...so prison worked for this man!)

yet cos he lied on applying for a job, he gets sacked!?...and people on here agreeing with that decision baffles me...

where's your compassion, tolerance and understanding...the guys made a success of his life...

what society do we want to live in where a mistake as a youth condemns you for life?..

jeez its a unforgiving world we're making for ourselves and future generations

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"the guy is nearly 60, so he started with the fire service around 38

he was in his teens when he committed his crime of B&E...serves about 6 months, then from then on has an unblemished record being a model citizen (you could say the man served his penance and was rehabilitated...so prison worked for this man!)

Its nothing to do with the actual offence or whether you show compassion or not. Its about rules, he lied on his application form, got the job by committing fraud.

I would feel the same whatever he had lied about. You cant make one rule for one and one for another otherwise there could be a lot worse cases.

Personally i dont think his crime should hinder him and from what i see his crime hasnt. Its the fact that he lied is the crime

yet cos he lied on applying for a job, he gets sacked!?...and people on here agreeing with that decision baffles me...

where's your compassion, tolerance and understanding...the guys made a success of his life...

what society do we want to live in where a mistake as a youth condemns you for life?..

jeez its a unforgiving world we're making for ourselves and future generations

"

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

[Removed by poster at 14/03/13 13:54:59]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"the guy is nearly 60, so he started with the fire service around 38

he was in his teens when he committed his crime of B&E...serves about 6 months, then from then on has an unblemished record being a model citizen (you could say the man served his penance and was rehabilitated...so prison worked for this man!)

yet cos he lied on applying for a job, he gets sacked!?...and people on here agreeing with that decision baffles me...

where's your compassion, tolerance and understanding...the guys made a success of his life...

what society do we want to live in where a mistake as a youth condemns you for life?..

jeez its a unforgiving world we're making for ourselves and future generations

"

question the reasons for not disclosing?-

would he/she be treated fairly as an employee?

will he/she rock the boat when it comes to union decisions etc, if his/her employer knows they have a criminal history?

u can probably add more to this

like they say if u cant do the time dont do the crime..but if u do the time for the crime I say wipe the slate clean to an extent

In my opinion, it hasnt become about protecting 'society' but merely about protecting a company's financial security(they'll call it a reputation, but we know what they mean really)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This subject is currently being discussed on LBC - Julia Hartley Brewer has a conviction for shoplifting!

You go girl!!!

And, yes, I definitely would (so long as she shut up for five minutes...)

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By *oulou45Woman
over a year ago

Bucks


"the guy is nearly 60, so he started with the fire service around 38

he was in his teens when he committed his crime of B&E...serves about 6 months, then from then on has an unblemished record being a model citizen (you could say the man served his penance and was rehabilitated...so prison worked for this man!)

yet cos he lied on applying for a job, he gets sacked!?...and people on here agreeing with that decision baffles me...

where's your compassion, tolerance and understanding...the guys made a success of his life...

what society do we want to live in where a mistake as a youth condemns you for life?..

jeez its a unforgiving world we're making for ourselves and future generations

"

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"the guy is nearly 60, so he started with the fire service around 38

"

Sorry to confuse, he started his job in his 20's and was sacked 22 years later. That must have been about 10 years ago.

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By *nfieldishCouple
over a year ago

Enfield

I'm all for killing him....

Oh no... I meant forgiving.....

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By *issBehavingxxWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 14/03/13 18:44:32]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A few things could make the answer on this different..

Depends how the question was worded on the application form, and how long after the offence he applied to the fire service.

If th"

carry on lol

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By *issBehavingxxWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

A few things could make the answer on this different..

Depends how the question was worded on the application form, and how long after the offence he applied to the fire service.

If the question asked about "unspent convictions"and his was spent then he didn't need to disclose it. If it just asked about convictions then he should have.

I'm more confused how the fire service found out. If his CRB check was carried out by a charity he was going to work with, only that charity who carried it out should have had access to the info on it.

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By *issBehavingxxWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"A few things could make the answer on this different..

Depends how the question was worded on the application form, and how long after the offence he applied to the fire service.

If th

carry on lol "

I just did ya cheeky fucker..... My finger slipped while typing lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A few things could make the answer on this different..

Depends how the question was worded on the application form, and how long after the offence he applied to the fire service.

If th

carry on lol

I just did ya cheeky fucker..... My finger slipped while typing lol"

ok slippy fingers mmm..

well yes the charity must have gave some info over, then the fire chiefs could have checked it out themselves..

in any case..the guy was still working well, saving lives... he just wouldnt be able to join whatever side venture it was..

not saying its a totally unfair dismissal by law....however I dont think it does say in anything that they WILL automatically sack

a poor judgement in my eyes, if all the facts have been given

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A man breaks the law when a young teenager, he gets a sentance in a young offenders centre.

He doesn't offend again, gets married, has a family, joins the fire service and works there for 22 years.

He then has a CRB check as he was going to be working with youngsters connected to a charity and the FS find out that the CRB check brought up his conviction and sack him for not disclosing it.

Now ok, he should have told them about it, but if he had they probably wouldn't have employed him and wouldn't have had 22 years of good service from him.

It does seem extreme to get rid of someone who has given good service in a job for 22 years because they had a conviction in their youth.

Should a conviction when you are young and often silly count ?

Should convictions be taken into account when looking at the persons life since?

Does this mean second chances will never be given ?

"

Sacking him after 22 years of exemplary service means they can get rid of him without paying his pension. There's always more to a story than what's being presented.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

im not sure of the law in England, but arent crimes commited while under the adult age of 18 sealed once spent?

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By *issBehavingxxWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"im not sure of the law in England, but arent crimes commited while under the adult age of 18 sealed once spent?"

No, but the length of time before a conviction is classed as spent is (in most cases) halved if you were under 18

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Should a conviction when you are young and often silly count ?

Should convictions be taken into account when looking at the persons life since?

Does this mean second chances will never be given ?

"

- Yes

- Yes

- No

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A man breaks the law when a young teenager, he gets a sentance in a young offenders centre.

He doesn't offend again, gets married, has a family, joins the fire service and works there for 22 years.

He then has a CRB check as he was going to be working with youngsters connected to a charity and the FS find out that the CRB check brought up his conviction and sack him for not disclosing it.

Now ok, he should have told them about it, but if he had they probably wouldn't have employed him and wouldn't have had 22 years of good service from him.

It does seem extreme to get rid of someone who has given good service in a job for 22 years because they had a conviction in their youth.

Should a conviction when you are young and often silly count ?

Should convictions be taken into account when looking at the persons life since?

Does this mean second chances will never be given ?

"

i think it depends on the offence,if it was just an minor offence it shud be forgotten about

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

His only "crime" in my _iew is that he did not disclose the original crime but if he had, he might not have got the job back then.

Difficult one - I can't help it but I really believe in giving everybody a second chance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"His only "crime" in my _iew is that he did not disclose the original crime but if he had, he might not have got the job back then.

Difficult one - I can't help it but I really believe in giving everybody a second chance. "

As I said before, would a pen pusher sitting in an office re_iewing his case really have scant regard for his 22 year service if it meant not paying him his long service pension.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"His only "crime" in my _iew is that he did not disclose the original crime but if he had, he might not have got the job back then.

Difficult one - I can't help it but I really believe in giving everybody a second chance. "

Everybody?

Thomson and Venables?

Brady?

Black or Tobin?

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"A few things could make the answer on this different..

Depends how the question was worded on the application form, and how long after the offence he applied to the fire service.

If the question asked about "unspent convictions"and his was spent then he didn't need to disclose it. If it just asked about convictions then he should have.

I'm more confused how the fire service found out. If his CRB check was carried out by a charity he was going to work with, only that charity who carried it out should have had access to the info on it."

I think ( but can't be 100% certain as the phone went as he was talking ) that he was going to do the charity work with the FS for the charity...so I am thinking maybe the charity did the CRB and had to inform the FS?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"A few things could make the answer on this different..

Depends how the question was worded on the application form, and how long after the offence he applied to the fire service.

If the question asked about "unspent convictions"and his was spent then he didn't need to disclose it. If it just asked about convictions then he should have.

I'm more confused how the fire service found out. If his CRB check was carried out by a charity he was going to work with, only that charity who carried it out should have had access to the info on it.

I think ( but can't be 100% certain as the phone went as he was talking ) that he was going to do the charity work with the FS for the charity...so I am thinking maybe the charity did the CRB and had to inform the FS?

"

Isn't it the norm for an employer to arrange (and pay for) CRB checks to avoid multiple applications/ costs by any of the charities the employer might wish to work with

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"His only "crime" in my _iew is that he did not disclose the original crime but if he had, he might not have got the job back then.

Difficult one - I can't help it but I really believe in giving everybody a second chance.

Everybody?

Thomson and Venables?

Brady?

Black or Tobin?"

I knew this was gonna go to the extremes..

the child killers thomson and venabales..were in fact children at the time of their crime

no second chance for them? death penalty?

as for the others..serving life imprisonment or multple life sentences, is the extent of the law I'm willing to abide by

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Did the fire service ask him to disclose it when they employed him?"

Its an integral element of any applicant to fully disclose any criminal conviction with the Fire service...

its there for very good reasons..

agree that this may appear harsh but certain issues are pretty much going to result in gross misconduct and therefore dismissal in a service where honesty and trust are paramount..

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"A few things could make the answer on this different..

Depends how the question was worded on the application form, and how long after the offence he applied to the fire service.

If the question asked about "unspent convictions"and his was spent then he didn't need to disclose it. If it just asked about convictions then he should have.

I'm more confused how the fire service found out. If his CRB check was carried out by a charity he was going to work with, only that charity who carried it out should have had access to the info on it.

I think ( but can't be 100% certain as the phone went as he was talking ) that he was going to do the charity work with the FS for the charity...so I am thinking maybe the charity did the CRB and had to inform the FS?

Isn't it the norm for an employer to arrange (and pay for) CRB checks to avoid multiple applications/ costs by any of the charities the employer might wish to work with"

Not a clue sorry

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"A man breaks the law when a young teenager, he gets a sentance in a young offenders centre.

He doesn't offend again, gets married, has a family, joins the fire service and works there for 22 years.

He then has a CRB check as he was going to be working with youngsters connected to a charity and the FS find out that the CRB check brought up his conviction and sack him for not disclosing it.

Now ok, he should have told them about it, but if he had they probably wouldn't have employed him and wouldn't have had 22 years of good service from him.

It does seem extreme to get rid of someone who has given good service in a job for 22 years because they had a conviction in their youth.

Should a conviction when you are young and often silly count ?

Should convictions be taken into account when looking at the persons life since?

Does this mean second chances will never be given ?

Sacking him after 22 years of exemplary service means they can get rid of him without paying his pension. There's always more to a story than what's being presented."

the pension issue is peripheral to the verdict, he will receive it at age 60..

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By *issBehavingxxWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Isn't it the norm for an employer to arrange (and pay for) CRB checks to avoid multiple applications/ costs by any of the charities the employer might wish to work with"

No, each company (or organisation) that the indovidual will work with (paid or voluntary) has to apply for their own CRB.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


" .........

Sacking him after 22 years of exemplary service means they can get rid of him without paying his pension. There's always more to a story than what's being presented.

the pension issue is peripheral to the verdict, he will receive it at age 60..

"

Even if dismissed for concealing information which would have precluded him from that employment in the first place?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


" .........

Sacking him after 22 years of exemplary service means they can get rid of him without paying his pension. There's always more to a story than what's being presented.

the pension issue is peripheral to the verdict, he will receive it at age 60..

Even if dismissed for concealing information which would have precluded him from that employment in the first place?"

yes as he has contributed to the pension scheme throughout his career..

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Isn't it the norm for an employer to arrange (and pay for) CRB checks to avoid multiple applications/ costs by any of the charities the employer might wish to work with

No, each company (or organisation) that the indovidual will work with (paid or voluntary) has to apply for their own CRB."

That sounds like a cash cow for someone.

It might be more sensible if the individual paid for and underwent checking/ assessment (a bit like the Security Industry Association test for doormen etc) which all organisations could have confidence in.

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By *innamon!Woman
over a year ago

no matter

I think its a damn shame. If He worked hard never did anything wrong a reprimand should have been sufficiant .

Losing a job for something done and paid for in his youth is ridiculous..

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I have to have a CRB check carried out every two years and if I was to start another job somewhere else that required a CRB they would have to complete a new one even if I had a CRB a month old from my previous employment...

My work are fully aware of my past and have never judged me on anything..

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By *issBehavingxxWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Isn't it the norm for an employer to arrange (and pay for) CRB checks to avoid multiple applications/ costs by any of the charities the employer might wish to work with

No, each company (or organisation) that the indovidual will work with (paid or voluntary) has to apply for their own CRB.

That sounds like a cash cow for someone.

It might be more sensible if the individual paid for and underwent checking/ assessment (a bit like the Security Industry Association test for doormen etc) which all organisations could have confidence in."

Cash cow is exactly what it is...

In the past an employer could apply for portability of a CRB meaning the same one could be used for multiple employers.... But they stopped that so each employer has to apply for their own.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think its a damn shame. If He worked hard never did anything wrong a reprimand should have been sufficiant .

Losing a job for something done and paid for in his youth is ridiculous..

"

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

Criminal Record checks have been carried out for the last 25 years roughly as I was working in a Community Youth Club when it was introduced.

He may have thought that it was considered 'spent'. Bit harsh though.

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By *orkieMan
over a year ago

Who knows

My _iew... its a fcuking farce.

If the guy is nearly 60 then he was 38 when he applied for the fire service.

If he committed the crime when he was under 18 then the conviction would be spent at age 21 1/2 max. If he was over 18 but still a teenager ie up to the age of 20 then the time for conviction to be spent would be 7 years.

Therefore when he joined the fire service he was legally entitled to say "I have no convictions"

Regarding the info coming to light from a CRB check carried out by another body then we ask the question, "How did the fire brigade find out about the conviction?"... Sorry but it sounds like a data protection breach by the charity.

In my opinion having a teenage conviction for B & E in your youth has no bearing well over 30 years later unless your name is Fagin

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was a signatory for CRB checks when they were first set up and also had to draw up a policy for employing ex-offenders.

The issue of having done something in the past should simply be an assessment of whether whatever it was would flag up a concern eg. drug abuse, violence would always be a concern for posts involving children - but it's mostly a judgement call.

The issue of failing to declare something that then shows up is that you then have to question what else have they hidden away.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"Isn't it the norm for an employer to arrange (and pay for) CRB checks to avoid multiple applications/ costs by any of the charities the employer might wish to work with

No, each company (or organisation) that the indovidual will work with (paid or voluntary) has to apply for their own CRB.

That sounds like a cash cow for someone.

It might be more sensible if the individual paid for and underwent checking/ assessment (a bit like the Security Industry Association test for doormen etc) which all organisations could have confidence in.

Cash cow is exactly what it is...

In the past an employer could apply for portability of a CRB meaning the same one could be used for multiple employers.... But they stopped that so each employer has to apply for their own."

Have they stopped it? I know my sons ex girlfriend paid to have her own done that she took to job inter_iews. My sons employer did there own

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"Isn't it the norm for an employer to arrange (and pay for) CRB checks to avoid multiple applications/ costs by any of the charities the employer might wish to work with

No, each company (or organisation) that the indovidual will work with (paid or voluntary) has to apply for their own CRB.

That sounds like a cash cow for someone.

It might be more sensible if the individual paid for and underwent checking/ assessment (a bit like the Security Industry Association test for doormen etc) which all organisations could have confidence in.

Cash cow is exactly what it is...

In the past an employer could apply for portability of a CRB meaning the same one could be used for multiple employers.... But they stopped that so each employer has to apply for their own."

Have they stopped it? I know my sons ex girlfriend paid to have her own done that she took to job inter_iews. My sons employer did there own

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"Isn't it the norm for an employer to arrange (and pay for) CRB checks to avoid multiple applications/ costs by any of the charities the employer might wish to work with

No, each company (or organisation) that the indovidual will work with (paid or voluntary) has to apply for their own CRB.

That sounds like a cash cow for someone.

It might be more sensible if the individual paid for and underwent checking/ assessment (a bit like the Security Industry Association test for doormen etc) which all organisations could have confidence in.

Cash cow is exactly what it is...

In the past an employer could apply for portability of a CRB meaning the same one could be used for multiple employers.... But they stopped that so each employer has to apply for their own.

Have they stopped it? I know my sons ex girlfriend paid to have her own done that she took to job inter_iews. My sons employer did there own"

They have stopped it but it often looks better at inter_iews if you have one. Once you get the job though, you or your current employer would have to apply for a new CRB

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope it wasnt a conviction for arson

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By *ugby 123 OP   Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I think age of the man etc I may have got wrong...I only heard the tale end of it again today so can't be sure.

Basically though, he was a kid when nicked ( not for arson ), an adult when joining the FS and after a good few years of service got sacked for what sounds like not disclosing it.

As I say, yeah he should have done we all know that, but it still seems harsh to sack him after all those years.

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By *ollie_JCouple
over a year ago

London

I didn't think crb checks had being going on for that long

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