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The stupidity of "human rights"

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

This is a long read but highlights the stupidity of "human rights"

Evicting a woman from her council home for failing to pay rent would breach her human rights, judges ruled yesterday.

Town Hall chiefs wanted to evict Rebecca Powell, who receives thousands of pounds in benefits, after she ran up more than £3,500 in arrears on the accommodation she was given because she was homeless.

But the Supreme Court said that – under the controversial European Convention on Human Rights – this would be a breach of the right to ‘respect for a person’s home’.

Council leaders and the Government had fought the case and fear it may now be harder to evict thousands of council tenants who fall into arrears.

Legal experts said there was an increasing ‘trend’ for tenants – including ‘neighbours from hell’ – to use human rights law to thwart eviction.

Passing yesterday’s judgment, Lord Hope made it clear the ruling had its origins in Strasbourg. He said the ‘time had come to accept and apply the jurisprudence of the European court’.

The ruling brought fresh demands for reform of Labour’s Human Rights Act, which enshrines the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law, and of the unelected Strasbourg court.

It comes in the wake of cases saying that prisoners must be entitled to vote and that paedophiles can apply to be taken off the Sex Offender Register.

Last night Tory MP Philip Davies said: ‘It seems to me that the courts always find in favour of the human rights of people who are doing something wrong. We have got to change that balance, it is getting completely out of hand.

‘What about the human rights of the landlord to get their rent, what about the human rights of the taxpayer?’

************************************

Miss Powell, now 23, was given a home in Cranford, West London, by Hounslow Council in April 2007. By June the following year Miss Powell, who lives with her partner and four children, owed the council more than £3,500.

She was entitled to around £15,000 a year in housing benefit which could have covered the payments, but had not applied for it properly.

Eviction proceedings began but were halted when Miss Powell appealed under the Human Rights Act. At one stage the council moved the family out in order to renovate the home at taxpayers’ expense, then moved them back in.

Yesterday, Lord Hope and Lord Phillips ruled that the council had not considered whether it was ‘proportionate’ to evict Miss Powell and ordered that the eviction be quashed.

Hounslow Council, anticipating defeat, has offered her ‘suitable alternative accommodation’ and she has never been without a home.

Judges will have to consider the ruling when looking at similar cases involving people who would otherwise be homeless.

Miss Powell has agreed to clear her arrears of £3,536.39 at £5 per week, or sooner if she can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we added all the positive things the act provides this thread would reach 175 in seconds

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

or negative things from the Daily Mail. it would be nanoseconds

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

This happens alot in housing...

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By *rumCoupleCouple
over a year ago

birmingham

to the OP:

Which human rights would *you* give up ?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Presumably, the OP thinks that the person in he article should be made homeless, and the human rights legislations should be done away with.

Sounds like a well thought out thread, doesn't it!

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

Sounds like a ukip supporter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its a difficult one

On one hand I wouldn't want to see a woman and her children homeless but on the other hand what would happen if everyone refused to pay their rent?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I dont have such thoughts.

Im just incredulous of the article its self.

Mind you............

Maybe those of use refusing to pay the proposed "bedroom tax"

could use the same laws eh...........

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Judges are becoming more strict on evicting people and more about second chances...it might be the arrears were not her fault as she may not been aware on how to claim housing benefit correctly...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


"or negative things from the Daily Mail. it would be nanoseconds"

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof "

shhhhhhhh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Judges are becoming more strict on evicting people and more about second chances...it might be the arrears were not her fault as she may not been aware on how to claim housing benefit correctly..."

which is exactly what the article implies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof

shhhhhhhh "

Oops

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof "

its much easier to get a tenant out if your private than council

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

In the pilot schemes already in place....rent arrears have sky rocketed.

The reason rents etc were paid direct in the first place was because of the rising arrears, nothing has changed to stop that happening.......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof

its much easier to get a tenant out if your private than council"

It includes every tenant council or otherwise

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


"This happens alot in housing..."

Yesterday it was announced that rent arrears have gone up since the current government decided to not pay landlords directly in a test group.

Well what a surprise!

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it pay its rent

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By *uttyMan
over a year ago

Local to you maybe


"Judges are becoming more strict on evicting people and more about second chances...it might be the arrears were not her fault as she may not been aware on how to claim housing benefit correctly...

which is exactly what the article implies"

It's not all about claiming correctly but also the local authority not making any errors in the processing of the claim. Found this out to my disadvantage as I'm now in arrears with both housing and council tax after never owing a penny before claiming due to an error on their part.

Been told in no uncertain terms, like it or lump it and you have to pay it back

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By *orteMan
over a year ago

Aberdeen

She could have had housing benefit which would have covered the rent but failed to apply properly. The judge quashed the decision to evict her because it was not proportionate. Seems reasonable to me. Stopping someone from being evicted because they couldnt fill in a form to pay money from one part of the council to another messing up her life and that of her children and requiring a ton of time and money to sort out the mess.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Judges are becoming more strict on evicting people and more about second chances...it might be the arrears were not her fault as she may not been aware on how to claim housing benefit correctly...

which is exactly what the article implies

It's not all about claiming correctly but also the local authority not making any errors in the processing of the claim. Found this out to my disadvantage as I'm now in arrears with both housing and council tax after never owing a penny before claiming due to an error on their part.

Been told in no uncertain terms, like it or lump it and you have to pay it back "

That was the same as me when i worked part time and claim a percentage of housing and council costs.

Went to the local office with payslips etc and they did all the forms....

But every 3 mths i had a letter saying i was in arrears, despite paying what i had been told to.

That happened all the time until i went full time and paid full rent etc.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof

its much easier to get a tenant out if your private than council"

It is easier just as it will be to remove squatters from private and commercial residences and properties

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No one wants a family to be made homeless .

Human rights , just like the benefits system will be abused .

Paying rent to the tenant is just plain daft , as is much of the benefits system .

However , we live in a civilised society so I guess we have to accept there will be ridiculous exceptions but no system is infallible .

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"She could have had housing benefit which would have covered the rent but failed to apply properly. The judge quashed the decision to evict her because it was not proportionate. Seems reasonable to me. Stopping someone from being evicted because they couldnt fill in a form to pay money from one part of the council to another messing up her life and that of her children and requiring a ton of time and money to sort out the mess."

Im in no way saying this lady was in the wrong but was incredulous about the article and the fact that someone would have to apply to the court of human rights in order to sort things out.

The council here jump on anyone who owes as much as £20 .

so the council were at fault in allowing the amount to amass.

I would want to see anyone homeless let alone kids....

I just found it puzzling that "human rights" could be applied

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whilst not disputing the original post in relation to the highlighted cases the human rights act and some defincies tge overall impact is to protect the weak and vulnerable.

The press and government highlight these instances as a way of watering down our basic fundamental rights.

Take for instance the recent passing of a bill in parliment for increased use of secret courts usually reserved for national security matters. The libdems who by alkeged nature being liberal agree with it which astounds me is there no principle or belief they will not drop for a bit of power.

On the one hand uk government critcise burma etc for human right violations yet we are sleepwalking into allowing our rights to be eroded.

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By *uttyMan
over a year ago

Local to you maybe


"Judges are becoming more strict on evicting people and more about second chances...it might be the arrears were not her fault as she may not been aware on how to claim housing benefit correctly...

which is exactly what the article implies

It's not all about claiming correctly but also the local authority not making any errors in the processing of the claim. Found this out to my disadvantage as I'm now in arrears with both housing and council tax after never owing a penny before claiming due to an error on their part.

Been told in no uncertain terms, like it or lump it and you have to pay it back

That was the same as me when i worked part time and claim a percentage of housing and council costs.

Went to the local office with payslips etc and they did all the forms....

But every 3 mths i had a letter saying i was in arrears, despite paying what i had been told to.

That happened all the time until i went full time and paid full rent etc. "

Similar situation here, seriously thinking of getting papers and MP involved though as the people I give the info too are supposed to know what they are doing, yet they have managed to put me in debt

I've never owed a penny rent or council tax yet now I do after asking for assistance figure that out

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Judges are becoming more strict on evicting people and more about second chances...it might be the arrears were not her fault as she may not been aware on how to claim housing benefit correctly...

which is exactly what the article implies

It's not all about claiming correctly but also the local authority not making any errors in the processing of the claim. Found this out to my disadvantage as I'm now in arrears with both housing and council tax after never owing a penny before claiming due to an error on their part.

Been told in no uncertain terms, like it or lump it and you have to pay it back

That was the same as me when i worked part time and claim a percentage of housing and council costs.

Went to the local office with payslips etc and they did all the forms....

But every 3 mths i had a letter saying i was in arrears, despite paying what i had been told to.

That happened all the time until i went full time and paid full rent etc.

Similar situation here, seriously thinking of getting papers and MP involved though as the people I give the info too are supposed to know what they are doing, yet they have managed to put me in debt

I've never owed a penny rent or council tax yet now I do after asking for assistance figure that out "

I never figured it out in my case so good luck in your situation......totally inept council workers

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/03/13 15:58:50]

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


"She could have had housing benefit which would have covered the rent but failed to apply properly. The judge quashed the decision to evict her because it was not proportionate. Seems reasonable to me. Stopping someone from being evicted because they couldnt fill in a form to pay money from one part of the council to another messing up her life and that of her children and requiring a ton of time and money to sort out the mess.

Im in no way saying this lady was in the wrong but was incredulous about the article and the fact that someone would have to apply to the court of human rights in order to sort things out.

The council here jump on anyone who owes as much as £20 .

so the council were at fault in allowing the amount to amass.

I would want to see anyone homeless let alone kids....

I just found it puzzling that "human rights" could be applied "

I suppose if you consider dignity, a roof over your head and to be treated with equality a human right then sadly you also require a court to judge when these may have been impinged up on.

This person if what has been reported is correct had difficulties completing the documents correctly should have all available support to hand. Someone must have represented in court and new how to proceed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think were not looking at this objectively. The law is very complex and protects many aspects of the individual.

However it is being used as a defence for people's poor behavior. Nobody wishes anyone to be homeless, but if the landlord relies on the rent as income, do they not have a form of recourse ? Collate all the facts before passing judgement ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good idea. Maybe i'll apply to the human rights court about this 'bedroom tax'!

Why should i, as a father with access rights to my kids, be forced into moving from a two bed flat to a one bed flat?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Good idea. Maybe i'll apply to the human rights court about this 'bedroom tax'!

Why should i, as a father with access rights to my kids, be forced into moving from a two bed flat to a one bed flat? "

Forced ?

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

[Removed by poster at 13/03/13 16:16:33]

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


" I think were not looking at this objectively. The law is very complex and protects many aspects of the individual.

However it is being used as a defence for people's poor behavior. Nobody wishes anyone to be homeless, but if the landlord relies on the rent as income, do they not have a form of recourse ? Collate all the facts before passing judgement ? "

And if the documents were simple and if the rent was paid direct.....

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By *ighland_RoseCouple
over a year ago

Brigadoon

Is it not ridiculous as the rent is being paid by one government department and to another government department that they can't sort it out between them and the money be paid directly and correctly so the tenant never need be involved with the money.

Also if she was entitled to £15000 per annum but purely due to incorrect paperwork she didn't receive enough to pay the rent why can't they look at the situation and say oh dear that was a mistake but let's just sort it out and pay what we should have in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Good idea. Maybe i'll apply to the human rights court about this 'bedroom tax'!

Why should i, as a father with access rights to my kids, be forced into moving from a two bed flat to a one bed flat?

Forced ? "

Yep. Lets say for arguments sake i lose my job. I am then on benefits and housing benefit. So, i'm expected to pay the difference in the rent which i think works out at about £15 per week. Or move to a smaller flat!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/03/13 16:18:08]

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

Not all local auth are inept and some are making great strides to serve the constituents better.

5live reported on Staffordshire's Local Auth's and its success in recruiting fosterers from sectors such as the police and teaching and there like for fostering children with extreme and difficult situations..

They are constantly looking to help serve the community better with mystery shopping campaigns etc, Most work very hard and without overtime or bonuses and remember its their council too.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

[Removed by poster at 13/03/13 16:26:43]

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


"Is it not ridiculous as the rent is being paid by one government department and to another government department that they can't sort it out between them and the money be paid directly and correctly so the tenant never need be involved with the money.

Also if she was entitled to £15000 per annum but purely due to incorrect paperwork she didn't receive enough to pay the rent why can't they look at the situation and say oh dear that was a mistake but let's just sort it out and pay what we should have in the first place."

I agree, I was referring to when private landlords are involved as now the rents instead of being paid directly are being given to the tenant, now some this will not be an issue but as the recent test pilot has shown arrears have gone up substantially

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Not all local auth are inept and some are making great strides to serve the constituents better.

5live reported on Staffordshire's Local Auth's and its success in recruiting fosterers from sectors such as the police and teaching and there like for fostering children with extreme and difficult situations..

They are constantly looking to help serve the community better with mystery shopping campaigns etc, Most work very hard and without overtime or bonuses and remember its their council too."

Lol

I worked for staffs county council and know exactly what goes on on the "inside"

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I suspect the Supreme Court decision was guided by the fact she didn't personally benefit for what happened.

Had she been pocketing the Housing Benefit, she'd probably be in jail - or out now as this story seems to date to last year.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 13/03/13 16:50:34]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I suspect the Supreme Court decision was guided by the fact she didn't personally benefit for what happened.

Had she been pocketing the Housing Benefit, she'd probably be in jail - or out now as this story seems to date to last year."

it was actually 25 months ago. still theres no harm in highlighting it

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Well as im not an avid mail reader or any other sort....i hadnt known about it. but its so nice that the forum police are about to show me the error of my ways

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I suspect the Supreme Court decision was guided by the fact she didn't personally benefit for what happened.

Had she been pocketing the Housing Benefit, she'd probably be in jail - or out now as this story seems to date to last year.

it was actually 25 months ago. still theres no harm in highlighting it "

You're right. Inside Housing Feb 2011. I read it as 2012

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well as im not an avid mail reader or any other sort....i hadnt known about it. but its so nice that the forum police are about to show me the error of my ways "

so you saw it on facebook then?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Well as im not an avid mail reader or any other sort....i hadnt known about it. but its so nice that the forum police are about to show me the error of my ways

so you saw it on facebook then?"

Im researching for the campaign on saying no to the bedroom tax. It popped up .

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"........

Im researching for the campaign on saying no to the bedroom tax. ................... "

Any sensible suggestions on this front?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"........

Im researching for the campaign on saying no to the bedroom tax. ...................

Any sensible suggestions on this front?"

Its all gathering pace as the days go on with hopefully a full march on downing street and or local councils etc. similar to the poll tax demonstrations.

Time will tell.

But reading the article above, shows that using laws like this....just maybe benefical to all affected.?????

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"........

Im researching for the campaign on saying no to the bedroom tax. ...................

Any sensible suggestions on this front?

Its all gathering pace as the days go on with hopefully a full march on downing street and or local councils etc. similar to the poll tax demonstrations.

Time will tell.

But reading the article above, shows that using laws like this....just maybe benefical to all affected.?????"

Time is what people don't have.

I don't believe the story (above) informs the Bedroom Tax campaign in any way.

The Powell case was about technical arrears - the Bedroom Tax is very different.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof "

That's about the strength of it, I'm currently a Key Worker at a homeless hostel and no way would most of the guys there want the responsibility of dealing with their own Housing Benefits on top of all the other issues a lot of them have to deal with...I also have a feeling we're going to get very busy in the coming months !

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

There's a credit union type organisation started up in Glasgow where people who know they'll have issues handing their own rent post 1st April can arrange to have their benefits paid into the credit union and authorise the credit union to make rent payments on their behalf.

I don't know any more than that but it must be worth investigating.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"There's a credit union type organisation started up in Glasgow where people who know they'll have issues handing their own rent post 1st April can arrange to have their benefits paid into the credit union and authorise the credit union to make rent payments on their behalf.

I don't know any more than that but it must be worth investigating."

Great idea !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof

That's about the strength of it, I'm currently a Key Worker at a homeless hostel and no way would most of the guys there want the responsibility of dealing with their own Housing Benefits on top of all the other issues a lot of them have to deal with...I also have a feeling we're going to get very busy in the coming months !"

My mum works for the Citizen advice service, and they are dreading what is going to happen when people have their benefits paid directly too them.

Suddenly people who can not manage their money or have no experience of money management, are going to find they have a nice big lump of cash in their account, and will inevitably dip into it instead of using it as it is meant to be used!

M

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"There's a credit union type organisation started up in Glasgow where people who know they'll have issues handing their own rent post 1st April can arrange to have their benefits paid into the credit union and authorise the credit union to make rent payments on their behalf.

I don't know any more than that but it must be worth investigating."

They have that here as well.. Most Private landlords ask now that tenant who are on benefits open one up.. I think its a great idea

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof

That's about the strength of it, I'm currently a Key Worker at a homeless hostel and no way would most of the guys there want the responsibility of dealing with their own Housing Benefits on top of all the other issues a lot of them have to deal with...I also have a feeling we're going to get very busy in the coming months !"

In these circumstances HB will psy direct to landlord if supporting letter is sent in relation to vulernabilty of tenant and that they will not be able to manage their money...

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof

That's about the strength of it, I'm currently a Key Worker at a homeless hostel and no way would most of the guys there want the responsibility of dealing with their own Housing Benefits on top of all the other issues a lot of them have to deal with...I also have a feeling we're going to get very busy in the coming months !

My mum works for the Citizen advice service, and they are dreading what is going to happen when people have their benefits paid directly too them.

Suddenly people who can not manage their money or have no experience of money management, are going to find they have a nice big lump of cash in their account, and will inevitably dip into it instead of using it as it is meant to be used!

M

"

Precisely, it'd be no different I I suddenly had £500/week deposited in my account that I'd never had before and my kids needed new shoes...or, in more extreme cases, I needed to score drugs ! Why place temptation there ?

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof

That's about the strength of it, I'm currently a Key Worker at a homeless hostel and no way would most of the guys there want the responsibility of dealing with their own Housing Benefits on top of all the other issues a lot of them have to deal with...I also have a feeling we're going to get very busy in the coming months !

In these circumstances HB will psy direct to landlord if supporting letter is sent in relation to vulernabilty of tenant and that they will not be able to manage their money... "

I guessed that would be the case but we've had no guidelines yet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof

That's about the strength of it, I'm currently a Key Worker at a homeless hostel and no way would most of the guys there want the responsibility of dealing with their own Housing Benefits on top of all the other issues a lot of them have to deal with...I also have a feeling we're going to get very busy in the coming months !

My mum works for the Citizen advice service, and they are dreading what is going to happen when people have their benefits paid directly too them.

Suddenly people who can not manage their money or have no experience of money management, are going to find they have a nice big lump of cash in their account, and will inevitably dip into it instead of using it as it is meant to be used!

M

Precisely, it'd be no different I I suddenly had £500/week deposited in my account that I'd never had before and my kids needed new shoes...or, in more extreme cases, I needed to score drugs ! Why place temptation there ?"

Or families may choose to eat rather than pay their rent

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By *omnlynneCouple
over a year ago

milton keynes

sorry if im missing something here, but by virtue of the description "homeless" thereby been precluded from holding a resident address how does anyone receive housing benefits?

this is not been facetious i really dont get it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Presumably, the OP thinks that the person in he article should be made homeless, and the human rights legislations should be done away with.

Sounds like a well thought out thread, doesn't it! "

If a private homeowner doesn't pay his/her mortgage, or if a private tenant does pay his/her rent - guess what happens?

A council tenant shouldn't use his/her status as a govt funded tenant to take the piss and not pay their rent because they feel their money is better spent elsewhere. Pay up or ship out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"sorry if im missing something here, but by virtue of the description "homeless" thereby been precluded from holding a resident address how does anyone receive housing benefits?

this is not been facetious i really dont get it?"

The person made homeless because they didn't pay their rent goes to the bottom of the list when looking for a new 'home'. What's the point evicting someone just to give them another house of equal standing immediately.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Presumably, the OP thinks that the person in he article should be made homeless, and the human rights legislations should be done away with.

Sounds like a well thought out thread, doesn't it! "

Except people are evicted all the time and don't end up homeless as the local authority are obliged to find them somewhere to live even if its just a bed and breakfast

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Presumably, the OP thinks that the person in he article should be made homeless, and the human rights legislations should be done away with.

Sounds like a well thought out thread, doesn't it!

If a private homeowner doesn't pay his/her mortgage, or if a private tenant does pay his/her rent - guess what happens?

A council tenant shouldn't use his/her status as a govt funded tenant to take the piss and not pay their rent because they feel their money is better spent elsewhere. Pay up or ship out. "

Absolutely right

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Presumably, the OP thinks that the person in he article should be made homeless, and the human rights legislations should be done away with.

Sounds like a well thought out thread, doesn't it! "

Doing away with Human Rights laws is a main plank of Theresa May's campaign to oust David Cameron as leader of the Tories.

Sounds like a well thought out policy, doesn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"sorry if im missing something here, but by virtue of the description "homeless" thereby been precluded from holding a resident address how does anyone receive housing benefits?

this is not been facetious i really dont get it?

The person made homeless because they didn't pay their rent goes to the bottom of the list when looking for a new 'home'. What's the point evicting someone just to give them another house of equal standing immediately. "

That's because they go to the CAB and get all their debts written off with some pathetic excuse and hey presto, debt free and we've been made to take a former tenant who then ran up another £2000 rent arrears and was evicted for the second time in 4 yrs

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Paying rent direct to social landlord tenants but not to the tenants of private landlords is simply part of a Tory plan to get people out of social housing and into the clutches of their pals in the buy-to-let business.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Paying rent direct to social landlord tenants but not to the tenants of private landlords is simply part of a Tory plan to get people out of social housing and into the clutches of their pals in the buy-to-let business."

It's actually to encourage people to be more responsible with their money, its already been trialled in a couple of areas with no problems well that's what they say

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Paying rent direct to social landlord tenants but not to the tenants of private landlords is simply part of a Tory plan to get people out of social housing and into the clutches of their pals in the buy-to-let business.

It's actually to encourage people to be more responsible with their money, its already been trialled in a couple of areas with no problems well that's what they say "

Yeah. That's what they say.

We'll see how it pans out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Paying rent direct to social landlord tenants but not to the tenants of private landlords is simply part of a Tory plan to get people out of social housing and into the clutches of their pals in the buy-to-let business.

It's actually to encourage people to be more responsible with their money, its already been trialled in a couple of areas with no problems well that's what they say "

Arrears has gone through the roof in those areas

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Wait till April when all housing benefit gets paid direct to the tenant and not the landlord, arrears will go through the roof

That's about the strength of it, I'm currently a Key Worker at a homeless hostel and no way would most of the guys there want the responsibility of dealing with their own Housing Benefits on top of all the other issues a lot of them have to deal with...I also have a feeling we're going to get very busy in the coming months !

In these circumstances HB will psy direct to landlord if supporting letter is sent in relation to vulernabilty of tenant and that they will not be able to manage their money...

I guessed that would be the case but we've had no guidelines yet."

If you need info PM me... Not really one to discuss certain things on here..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Paying rent direct to social landlord tenants but not to the tenants of private landlords is simply part of a Tory plan to get people out of social housing and into the clutches of their pals in the buy-to-let business."

That doesn't make sense if it's some scheme to line the pockets of rich Tories. I'd bet my life that paying rent directly to tenants of social housing will see that money go straight down the bookies, or to Tescos for a case of lager.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Paying rent direct to social landlord tenants but not to the tenants of private landlords is simply part of a Tory plan to get people out of social housing and into the clutches of their pals in the buy-to-let business.

That doesn't make sense if it's some scheme to line the pockets of rich Tories. I'd bet my life that paying rent directly to tenants of social housing will see that money go straight down the bookies, or to Tescos for a case of lager."

It makes perfect sense. Paying Housing Benefit directly to social tenants will see many eveicetd as they find other uses for the cash.

Paying Housing Benefit to private landlords will ensure their tenants face no such temptations. That'll make the buy to let market, currently in the doldrums, more attractive to the kind of Rachman we saw all those years ago.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

This is the report:

Rent arrears among tenants on a government pilot project that pays housing benefit directly to recipients have seen a big increase, figures show.

One area is predicting a £14m loss if the new system is implemented for all its tenants, the BBC has learned.

Paying housing benefit directly to recipients, rather than their landlords, will form a key part of the planned new Universal Credit.

The government says lessons will be learned from the pilot projects.

It wants to pay recipients directly as they think it will increase their sense of responsibility over their own lives and make them better able to cope should they move into a job.

The Department for Work and Pensions has run pilot projects in six areas since last June to see how well tenants would cope with having their housing benefit paid directly to them.

Thousands of people have been moved onto the new scheme in the selected areas - Edinburgh, Wakefield, Shropshire, Oxford, Cwmbran and Southwark in south London.

Arrears fears

Figures obtained by BBC News show that arrears among tenants of Wakefield and District Housing in West Yorkshire have increased from an average of 2% to 11% on the pilot projects.

Chief executive Kevin Dodd said he hoped the level of arrears would fall as they made efforts to help tenants better manage their money.

But even taking that into account, he told the BBC: "If you roll that out to 31,000 tenancies we will be increasing our bad debt provision by a further £2-3m a year."

Bron Afon community housing in south Wales said it had seen a 50% increase in arrears, while pilot projects in Edinburgh, Oxford and Southwark are showing around 30% increases in arrears.

Southwark Council predicts it will incur £14m in arrears if direct payment is introduced to all their tenants.

"People have clocked up arrears who were not in arrears before," says Duncan Forbes, chief executive of Bron Afon.

"And the worry is will they panic, will they stop paying, will they feel they've lost control and end up being evicted."

One tenant failing to cope is Margaret Tonks, a single mother from Broseley, Shropshire.

She approached her local Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) after using some of her housing benefit to pay for gas and electricity and has now built up arrears.

"I do not know why they moved me to the new scheme," she said. "I hardly have enough money to live day-to-day.

"By them paying the money directly to me it created temptation to use it for other things which has resulted in me being in arrears and possibly being evicted. "

Staffing costs

It is a story familiar to Andrea Thomas, a CAB manager in Cwmbran, south Wales. Several local tenants on the direct payments project have needed help to cope with the new system, all with mental health problems.

"The reality that we found is that the most vulnerable people in society… they simply cannot cope with it," she said.

"So they are the ones at risk of not realising what the money in their bank account is for and going out and spending it."

As well as noticing a large increase in arrears, all the pilot projects have seen increases in the costs of getting the rent from the tenants. Some projects have had to double staffing costs as many tenants have been unwilling to pay by direct debit.

In Bron Afon, approximately 90% of tenants do not pay by direct debit.

"Direct debits are not a good way of paying if you are on very low incomes," says Duncan Forbes.

"If a direct debit is due and there is no money in the bank, it can cost you £30-£40 as a penalty."

None of the projects the BBC spoke to have any regrets about their involvement in the pilots and many talk about the willingness of their tenants to engage with them.

But the reality for all of them is that their incomes have fallen and their costs have increased, leading to greater uncertainty for both them and their tenants.

The Department for Work and Pensions said it has helped the pilots to learn lessons and ensure the scheme is effectively implemented.

Minister Steve Webb said: "We currently pay housing benefit directly to one million people in the private sector and that works pretty well.

"We are trying to treat people in council houses the same way, but we want to get it right."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Paying rent direct to social landlord tenants but not to the tenants of private landlords is simply part of a Tory plan to get people out of social housing and into the clutches of their pals in the buy-to-let business.

That doesn't make sense if it's some scheme to line the pockets of rich Tories. I'd bet my life that paying rent directly to tenants of social housing will see that money go straight down the bookies, or to Tescos for a case of lager.

It makes perfect sense. Paying Housing Benefit directly to social tenants will see many eveicetd as they find other uses for the cash.

Paying Housing Benefit to private landlords will ensure their tenants face no such temptations. That'll make the buy to let market, currently in the doldrums, more attractive to the kind of Rachman we saw all those years ago."

No, it doesn't make sense. You're suggesting that social tenants will flock to private landlords. They won't. Some of the people evicted for rent arrears are those who WANT their housing benefit paid directly to them so they can spend it on a new plasma tv.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Paying rent direct to social landlord tenants but not to the tenants of private landlords is simply part of a Tory plan to get people out of social housing and into the clutches of their pals in the buy-to-let business.

That doesn't make sense if it's some scheme to line the pockets of rich Tories. I'd bet my life that paying rent directly to tenants of social housing will see that money go straight down the bookies, or to Tescos for a case of lager.

It makes perfect sense. Paying Housing Benefit directly to social tenants will see many eveicetd as they find other uses for the cash.

Paying Housing Benefit to private landlords will ensure their tenants face no such temptations. That'll make the buy to let market, currently in the doldrums, more attractive to the kind of Rachman we saw all those years ago.

No, it doesn't make sense. You're suggesting that social tenants will flock to private landlords. They won't. Some of the people evicted for rent arrears are those who WANT their housing benefit paid directly to them so they can spend it on a new plasma tv."

plasmas are so last year dahling

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Paying rent direct to social landlord tenants but not to the tenants of private landlords is simply part of a Tory plan to get people out of social housing and into the clutches of their pals in the buy-to-let business.

It's actually to encourage people to be more responsible with their money, its already been trialled in a couple of areas with no problems well that's what they say

Yeah. That's what they say.

We'll see how it pans out."

I work for a housing association, we are expecting our rent arrears to sky rocket

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was engaged to a forensic scientist some years ago, she worked within the Grampian police, they has performed a sting/arrest and long story short, ended up having a user in a cell awaiting to appear in court, after some hours as and ' addict' demanded that he be given his methadone, as a result, my at the time bits was women at 3am on a work day to unlock the lab and bring methadone to this filth..........

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