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"So, it looks like New Zealand are doing an about turn on their strategy of banning smoking for people born after 2009. They’ve cited a decrease in tax revenue and an increase in black market tobacco. Obviously the black market tobacco would not be taxed. All this to fund tax cuts. What’s going on here? It’s not all over the news." Change of government with most likely ties to the tobacco industry would be my guess. | |||
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"So, it looks like New Zealand are doing an about turn on their strategy of banning smoking for people born after 2009. They’ve cited a decrease in tax revenue and an increase in black market tobacco. Obviously the black market tobacco would not be taxed. All this to fund tax cuts. What’s going on here? It’s not all over the news. Change of government with most likely ties to the tobacco industry would be my guess. " They’ve gone from having 6 labour governments to a far right coalition government. | |||
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"So, it looks like New Zealand are doing an about turn on their strategy of banning smoking for people born after 2009. They’ve cited a decrease in tax revenue and an increase in black market tobacco. Obviously the black market tobacco would not be taxed. All this to fund tax cuts. What’s going on here? It’s not all over the news. Change of government with most likely ties to the tobacco industry would be my guess. " This is correct, there is a change. | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing " Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath. | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath." There will always be a black market for good. But if you take away easy access to smoking from the youngest generation you will likely get less people taking it up. It’s also easily policed. It means you can’t smoke in public (because where did you get the smokes from?) so it drives it underground. I can’t imagine many people jumping at sitting in a smoke den. It’s just short sighted right wing profiteering! | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath. There will always be a black market for good. But if you take away easy access to smoking from the youngest generation you will likely get less people taking it up. It’s also easily policed. It means you can’t smoke in public (because where did you get the smokes from?) so it drives it underground. I can’t imagine many people jumping at sitting in a smoke den. It’s just short sighted right wing profiteering!" I can see the profiteering angle. Where does the right wing bit come into play? | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath. There will always be a black market for good. But if you take away easy access to smoking from the youngest generation you will likely get less people taking it up. It’s also easily policed. It means you can’t smoke in public (because where did you get the smokes from?) so it drives it underground. I can’t imagine many people jumping at sitting in a smoke den. It’s just short sighted right wing profiteering! I can see the profiteering angle. Where does the right wing bit come into play?" Right wing governments are likely to be more linked with old money. Also conservatism literally means a commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation. | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath. There will always be a black market for good. But if you take away easy access to smoking from the youngest generation you will likely get less people taking it up. It’s also easily policed. It means you can’t smoke in public (because where did you get the smokes from?) so it drives it underground. I can’t imagine many people jumping at sitting in a smoke den. It’s just short sighted right wing profiteering! I can see the profiteering angle. Where does the right wing bit come into play? Right wing governments are likely to be more linked with old money. Also conservatism literally means a commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation." So if the prohibition stayed, do you think that the criminals wouldn’t take over the supply chain and profiteer? You mentioned about driving smoking underground, as you couldn’t have them in a public place. I’m not sure that this would actually happen. If we compared cigarettes to joints, the latter being illegal to own or smoke, I see people walking up the street happily puffing on joints without a care in the world. | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath. There will always be a black market for good. But if you take away easy access to smoking from the youngest generation you will likely get less people taking it up. It’s also easily policed. It means you can’t smoke in public (because where did you get the smokes from?) so it drives it underground. I can’t imagine many people jumping at sitting in a smoke den. It’s just short sighted right wing profiteering! I can see the profiteering angle. Where does the right wing bit come into play? Right wing governments are likely to be more linked with old money. Also conservatism literally means a commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation. So if the prohibition stayed, do you think that the criminals wouldn’t take over the supply chain and profiteer? You mentioned about driving smoking underground, as you couldn’t have them in a public place. I’m not sure that this would actually happen. If we compared cigarettes to joints, the latter being illegal to own or smoke, I see people walking up the street happily puffing on joints without a care in the world. " I think is cigarettes was less available you’d see a huge reduction is new smokers (black market or not) smoking doesn’t have any perceived recreational benefits like those of drugs and alcohol, they don’t alter your state of mind. Drinking isn’t legal on the streets but it happens even though you can do it in a bar or in your home. I think any negative effects of banning the sale of cigarettes would be mitigated by the improvements in health associated conditions related to their use. | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath. There will always be a black market for good. But if you take away easy access to smoking from the youngest generation you will likely get less people taking it up. It’s also easily policed. It means you can’t smoke in public (because where did you get the smokes from?) so it drives it underground. I can’t imagine many people jumping at sitting in a smoke den. It’s just short sighted right wing profiteering! I can see the profiteering angle. Where does the right wing bit come into play? Right wing governments are likely to be more linked with old money. Also conservatism literally means a commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation. So if the prohibition stayed, do you think that the criminals wouldn’t take over the supply chain and profiteer? You mentioned about driving smoking underground, as you couldn’t have them in a public place. I’m not sure that this would actually happen. If we compared cigarettes to joints, the latter being illegal to own or smoke, I see people walking up the street happily puffing on joints without a care in the world. I think is cigarettes was less available you’d see a huge reduction is new smokers (black market or not) smoking doesn’t have any perceived recreational benefits like those of drugs and alcohol, they don’t alter your state of mind. Drinking isn’t legal on the streets but it happens even though you can do it in a bar or in your home. I think any negative effects of banning the sale of cigarettes would be mitigated by the improvements in health associated conditions related to their use." Maybe, but people make joints with tobacco and unwittingly get addicted to them. It would be something else the dealers would supply maybe. I don’t get the attraction of cigarettes as opposed to alcohol, but drinking on the streets isn’t illegal, only if it’s a designated alcohol free zone set up by local authorities. It will be interesting to see if you are correct and less people start. Rishi has said isn’t going to do the same u turn here. | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath." Its a health thing smoking is bad for your health it interferes with your lungs gives you cancer and its highly addictive people say they enjoy it but ultimately certainly in later life you'll regret it when you can't suck oxygen into your lungs, their can be nothing worse, the sentiment was there but crime took it away, they were always going to lose out on tax by banning it  | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath. There will always be a black market for good. But if you take away easy access to smoking from the youngest generation you will likely get less people taking it up. It’s also easily policed. It means you can’t smoke in public (because where did you get the smokes from?) so it drives it underground. I can’t imagine many people jumping at sitting in a smoke den. It’s just short sighted right wing profiteering! I can see the profiteering angle. Where does the right wing bit come into play? Right wing governments are likely to be more linked with old money. Also conservatism literally means a commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation. So if the prohibition stayed, do you think that the criminals wouldn’t take over the supply chain and profiteer? You mentioned about driving smoking underground, as you couldn’t have them in a public place. I’m not sure that this would actually happen. If we compared cigarettes to joints, the latter being illegal to own or smoke, I see people walking up the street happily puffing on joints without a care in the world. I think is cigarettes was less available you’d see a huge reduction is new smokers (black market or not) smoking doesn’t have any perceived recreational benefits like those of drugs and alcohol, they don’t alter your state of mind. Drinking isn’t legal on the streets but it happens even though you can do it in a bar or in your home. I think any negative effects of banning the sale of cigarettes would be mitigated by the improvements in health associated conditions related to their use. Maybe, but people make joints with tobacco and unwittingly get addicted to them. It would be something else the dealers would supply maybe. I don’t get the attraction of cigarettes as opposed to alcohol, but drinking on the streets isn’t illegal, only if it’s a designated alcohol free zone set up by local authorities. It will be interesting to see if you are correct and less people start. Rishi has said isn’t going to do the same u turn here." If you’re a serious cannabis smoker you smoke a blunt or use a pipe. Back in my smoking days we stayed clear of Tabacco. | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath. There will always be a black market for good. But if you take away easy access to smoking from the youngest generation you will likely get less people taking it up. It’s also easily policed. It means you can’t smoke in public (because where did you get the smokes from?) so it drives it underground. I can’t imagine many people jumping at sitting in a smoke den. It’s just short sighted right wing profiteering! I can see the profiteering angle. Where does the right wing bit come into play? Right wing governments are likely to be more linked with old money. Also conservatism literally means a commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation. So if the prohibition stayed, do you think that the criminals wouldn’t take over the supply chain and profiteer? You mentioned about driving smoking underground, as you couldn’t have them in a public place. I’m not sure that this would actually happen. If we compared cigarettes to joints, the latter being illegal to own or smoke, I see people walking up the street happily puffing on joints without a care in the world. I think is cigarettes was less available you’d see a huge reduction is new smokers (black market or not) smoking doesn’t have any perceived recreational benefits like those of drugs and alcohol, they don’t alter your state of mind. Drinking isn’t legal on the streets but it happens even though you can do it in a bar or in your home. I think any negative effects of banning the sale of cigarettes would be mitigated by the improvements in health associated conditions related to their use. Maybe, but people make joints with tobacco and unwittingly get addicted to them. It would be something else the dealers would supply maybe. I don’t get the attraction of cigarettes as opposed to alcohol, but drinking on the streets isn’t illegal, only if it’s a designated alcohol free zone set up by local authorities. It will be interesting to see if you are correct and less people start. Rishi has said isn’t going to do the same u turn here. If you’re a serious cannabis smoker you smoke a blunt or use a pipe. Back in my smoking days we stayed clear of Tabacco." I think most people use cigarettes for this. | |||
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"Gov't requires a certain amount of cash to provide its services, if you remove a revenue stream that shortfall will either be split across the others or feduced services both likely affecting your vote(s) If there is a demand someone will supply that need, it'd likely be criminals same as the drugs ..kerching Prohibition never works education would be far better" Education on the ills of smoking started in British schools from the 1960/70s. I'm going to suggest education hasn't worked thus far. Nor has putting gory pics on the packets or keeping them hidden away. The only way to stop smoking is to ban it, in my view. | |||
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"Gov't requires a certain amount of cash to provide its services, if you remove a revenue stream that shortfall will either be split across the others or feduced services both likely affecting your vote(s) If there is a demand someone will supply that need, it'd likely be criminals same as the drugs ..kerching Prohibition never works education would be far better Education on the ills of smoking started in British schools from the 1960/70s. I'm going to suggest education hasn't worked thus far. Nor has putting gory pics on the packets or keeping them hidden away. The only way to stop smoking is to ban it, in my view. " But will it stop it or will it just put it in the hands of criminals supplying tobacco products? | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath. There will always be a black market for good. But if you take away easy access to smoking from the youngest generation you will likely get less people taking it up. It’s also easily policed. It means you can’t smoke in public (because where did you get the smokes from?) so it drives it underground. I can’t imagine many people jumping at sitting in a smoke den. It’s just short sighted right wing profiteering! I can see the profiteering angle. Where does the right wing bit come into play? Right wing governments are likely to be more linked with old money. Also conservatism literally means a commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation. So if the prohibition stayed, do you think that the criminals wouldn’t take over the supply chain and profiteer? You mentioned about driving smoking underground, as you couldn’t have them in a public place. I’m not sure that this would actually happen. If we compared cigarettes to joints, the latter being illegal to own or smoke, I see people walking up the street happily puffing on joints without a care in the world. I think is cigarettes was less available you’d see a huge reduction is new smokers (black market or not) smoking doesn’t have any perceived recreational benefits like those of drugs and alcohol, they don’t alter your state of mind. Drinking isn’t legal on the streets but it happens even though you can do it in a bar or in your home. I think any negative effects of banning the sale of cigarettes would be mitigated by the improvements in health associated conditions related to their use. Maybe, but people make joints with tobacco and unwittingly get addicted to them. It would be something else the dealers would supply maybe. I don’t get the attraction of cigarettes as opposed to alcohol, but drinking on the streets isn’t illegal, only if it’s a designated alcohol free zone set up by local authorities. It will be interesting to see if you are correct and less people start. Rishi has said isn’t going to do the same u turn here. If you’re a serious cannabis smoker you smoke a blunt or use a pipe. Back in my smoking days we stayed clear of Tabacco. I think most people use cigarettes for this." No self respecting cannabis uses used tobacco. | |||
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"Gov't requires a certain amount of cash to provide its services, if you remove a revenue stream that shortfall will either be split across the others or feduced services both likely affecting your vote(s) If there is a demand someone will supply that need, it'd likely be criminals same as the drugs ..kerching Prohibition never works education would be far better Education on the ills of smoking started in British schools from the 1960/70s. I'm going to suggest education hasn't worked thus far. Nor has putting gory pics on the packets or keeping them hidden away. The only way to stop smoking is to ban it, in my view. But will it stop it or will it just put it in the hands of criminals supplying tobacco products? " Criminals are already supplying black market/illegal cigarettes and tobacco products, despite them being legal for people of the right age. Of course an illegal trade will continue, but it's happening either way. Might as well make it harder to buy them, if we're really serious about avoiding serious harm. | |||
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"They could have been a leader in banning this crap but now shown they are just money grabbing Black market tobacco would become very lucrative in a time of prohibition. You’d still have all the health implications and costs to health services, but without the tax revenue. Is it just money grabbing? Or is it a good stategy? I’m no fan of smoking, but look what happens with illegal d””gs. All the societal problems, with no tax stream to help deal with the aftermath. There will always be a black market for good. But if you take away easy access to smoking from the youngest generation you will likely get less people taking it up. It’s also easily policed. It means you can’t smoke in public (because where did you get the smokes from?) so it drives it underground. I can’t imagine many people jumping at sitting in a smoke den. It’s just short sighted right wing profiteering! I can see the profiteering angle. Where does the right wing bit come into play? Right wing governments are likely to be more linked with old money. Also conservatism literally means a commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation. So if the prohibition stayed, do you think that the criminals wouldn’t take over the supply chain and profiteer? You mentioned about driving smoking underground, as you couldn’t have them in a public place. I’m not sure that this would actually happen. If we compared cigarettes to joints, the latter being illegal to own or smoke, I see people walking up the street happily puffing on joints without a care in the world. I think is cigarettes was less available you’d see a huge reduction is new smokers (black market or not) smoking doesn’t have any perceived recreational benefits like those of drugs and alcohol, they don’t alter your state of mind. Drinking isn’t legal on the streets but it happens even though you can do it in a bar or in your home. I think any negative effects of banning the sale of cigarettes would be mitigated by the improvements in health associated conditions related to their use. Maybe, but people make joints with tobacco and unwittingly get addicted to them. It would be something else the dealers would supply maybe. I don’t get the attraction of cigarettes as opposed to alcohol, but drinking on the streets isn’t illegal, only if it’s a designated alcohol free zone set up by local authorities. It will be interesting to see if you are correct and less people start. Rishi has said isn’t going to do the same u turn here. If you’re a serious cannabis smoker you smoke a blunt or use a pipe. Back in my smoking days we stayed clear of Tabacco. I think most people use cigarettes for this. No self respecting cannabis uses used tobacco." Used tobacco? As in already smoked? | |||
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"Gov't requires a certain amount of cash to provide its services, if you remove a revenue stream that shortfall will either be split across the others or feduced services both likely affecting your vote(s) If there is a demand someone will supply that need, it'd likely be criminals same as the drugs ..kerching Prohibition never works education would be far better Education on the ills of smoking started in British schools from the 1960/70s. I'm going to suggest education hasn't worked thus far. Nor has putting gory pics on the packets or keeping them hidden away. The only way to stop smoking is to ban it, in my view. But will it stop it or will it just put it in the hands of criminals supplying tobacco products? Criminals are already supplying black market/illegal cigarettes and tobacco products, despite them being legal for people of the right age. Of course an illegal trade will continue, but it's happening either way. Might as well make it harder to buy them, if we're really serious about avoiding serious harm. " It’s a good point, and it’s the cost or amount of tax on the product that creates this market for cheap smuggled cigarettes. | |||
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