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Self-Driving Cars

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery

I doubt many on here follow Tesla, electric cars and the technology that goes in to them, so some people may not know that in the last 24 hours the news is that Tesla’s ‘Full Self-Driving’ (FSD) Version 12 is about to be released to employees, a step taken before wide release to purchasers of the software.

Musk has had Tesla FSD cars driving around North America for the last 3+ years on versions coded by software engineers, so what’s the significance of FSD Version 12 I hear you ask?

V12 unlike its predecessors, hasn’t got a line of Software-engineered code controlling the car, instead the car has written its own code using ‘Neural Nets’, ‘Inference’ and being shown videos of ‘good drivers’ driving.

Musk demonstrated an early version of V12 on the streets of Paulo Alto, California in September to some acclaim from watchers of the live stream and the word is, that the since much-improved Version 12 is mind blowing and ‘better than human drivers’.

I for one can’t wait for my car to pick me up from a night out, to drop Cherry and me off before going back home to charge and collect us at the end of the day. Maybe even be used as a driverless taxi, if I choose. But I know I’m necessarily in the majority.

So what about you? Will you get your car to drop you off at meets and pick you up? Would you get in a driverless ‘Robotaxi’? If you had FSD, would you have it go off and earn you money as a taxi?

Hades

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have they improved the software so it can detect hazards?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can imagine we aren't far off it managing very quiet big roads in countries where there is wide expanse of land and not many towns (ie more simple to navigate hazards etc)

But managing a very busy country like the UK just still seems far fetched to me!

It's all a bit too skynet for me!!

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I've a feeling that this will be 'just around the corner' for a few years to come

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"Have they improved the software so it can detect hazards? "

It appears so yes. The demo from Musk in September showed it navigating Road Works effortlessly. It appears that rather than the problem being detection, it was the decision making of the car on how to navigate.

It also appears that without it ever being told what a stop sign is, that’s through watching videos of people stopping at stop signs, that’s V12 has learnt to stop at them. It’s that methodology which has led to the car learning to drive in all situations.

Tesla have invested large amounts of money on compute (to process the videos) and train the car’s computer.

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By *nterblueMan
over a year ago

manchester

Some of the reckless idiots I've endured on the road this week are more scary than self driving cars.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Have they improved the software so it can detect hazards?

It appears so yes. The demo from Musk in September showed it navigating Road Works effortlessly. It appears that rather than the problem being detection, it was the decision making of the car on how to navigate.

It also appears that without it ever being told what a stop sign is, that’s through watching videos of people stopping at stop signs, that’s V12 has learnt to stop at them. It’s that methodology which has led to the car learning to drive in all situations.

Tesla have invested large amounts of money on compute (to process the videos) and train the car’s computer."

Ah yeah I remember now.

The decision of veering away from a car but towards a group of kids kind of thing. Difficult to program.

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"I can imagine we aren't far off it managing very quiet big roads in countries where there is wide expanse of land and not many towns (ie more simple to navigate hazards etc)

But managing a very busy country like the UK just still seems far fetched to me!

It's all a bit too skynet for me!! "

There’s still a healthy amount of skepticism / anticipation to see what it does in New York at Rush hour etc. It maybe that improvements are still necessary, but with the compute they have, updates and fixes should be quicker and easier, until there are no more fixes necessary!

I hear you on the skinny thing. LLMs like chat GPT inside robots like Optimus or the robots at Boston Dynamics are where I will be concerned. There are some developments at Open AI happening which we should all be watching very closely.

Hades

x

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"Some of the reckless idiots I've endured on the road this week are more scary than self driving cars."

The future they are predicting will mean that humans will be regarded as so dangerous compared to the safety of self-driving cars, that some governments will consider stopping humans driving at all.

Hades

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By *nterblueMan
over a year ago

manchester


"Some of the reckless idiots I've endured on the road this week are more scary than self driving cars.

The future they are predicting will mean that humans will be regarded as so dangerous compared to the safety of self-driving cars, that some governments will consider stopping humans driving at all.

Hades"

Insurance costs may help drive that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should be a disaster on the small lanes around this way,dodging potholes and having to pass by pulling off the road onto muddy verges..see if a computer can judge how slippery and deep the mud is

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By *affron40Woman
over a year ago

manchester

I’m trusting my body to robotic surgery but I doubt I would sit comfortably in a robotic car. Daft really. But I like to understand the how’s and why’s.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't wait for the day cars will be self-driving and self-navigating. Road management will be determined by the cars sending information to a central system, which will route them according to traffic flow on a particular route.

Accidents will be a rarity because human error will have been taken out of the equation.

M

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I doubt many on here follow Tesla, electric cars and the technology that goes in to them, so some people may not know that in the last 24 hours the news is that Tesla’s ‘Full Self-Driving’ (FSD) Version 12 is about to be released to employees, a step taken before wide release to purchasers of the software.

Musk has had Tesla FSD cars driving around North America for the last 3+ years on versions coded by software engineers, so what’s the significance of FSD Version 12 I hear you ask?

V12 unlike its predecessors, hasn’t got a line of Software-engineered code controlling the car, instead the car has written its own code using ‘Neural Nets’, ‘Inference’ and being shown videos of ‘good drivers’ driving.

Musk demonstrated an early version of V12 on the streets of Paulo Alto, California in September to some acclaim from watchers of the live stream and the word is, that the since much-improved Version 12 is mind blowing and ‘better than human drivers’.

I for one can’t wait for my car to pick me up from a night out, to drop Cherry and me off before going back home to charge and collect us at the end of the day. Maybe even be used as a driverless taxi, if I choose. But I know I’m necessarily in the majority.

So what about you? Will you get your car to drop you off at meets and pick you up? Would you get in a driverless ‘Robotaxi’? If you had FSD, would you have it go off and earn you money as a taxi?

Hades"

We live near the first ‘autonomous bus service’ going from Fife to Edinburgh. It’s a load of cobblers. Never seen it not being driven and worst of all (but not surprisingly) never seen anyone on it. R

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

I suppose that if the car AI has written it's own code, at least it means that Musk hasn't fucked around with it himself.

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"Some of the reckless idiots I've endured on the road this week are more scary than self driving cars.

The future they are predicting will mean that humans will be regarded as so dangerous compared to the safety of self-driving cars, that some governments will consider stopping humans driving at all.

Hades

Insurance costs may help drive that."

They may indeed. When Tesla are regulated, the company will take on the insurance liability.

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"I’m trusting my body to robotic surgery but I doubt I would sit comfortably in a robotic car. Daft really. But I like to understand the how’s and why’s."

If you want a very good nights sleep I can explain the whys and hows in meticulous boring detail You wait until I’m sending my car to bring you to a dinner date with us !

I’ve got my fingers crossed for your surgery lady.

Hades

x

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By *affron40Woman
over a year ago

manchester


"I’m trusting my body to robotic surgery but I doubt I would sit comfortably in a robotic car. Daft really. But I like to understand the how’s and why’s.

If you want a very good nights sleep I can explain the whys and hows in meticulous boring detail You wait until I’m sending my car to bring you to a dinner date with us !

I’ve got my fingers crossed for your surgery lady.

Hades

x"

Ah thanks Chuck x oh god don’t tempt me I bloody love finding out about things. Tell me all about the electric cars you filthy animal

Bloody looking forward to the other side of this nonsense and getting back to cake and socialising!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This isn't the real issue with self driving cars.

Consider the moral dilemma of selecting between two hazards, the Trolley dilemma.

Any self driving car would have to make an active decision. This is premeditated algorithmic murder.

Consider the issue of driving behind a truck carrying heavy goods. If one of those items drops, it's likely to kill you. Your choice is to veer to the left, or to the right. To the left is a family car, carrying children. To your right is a motorcyclist. Which one should the car actively select?

Should it choose to prioritise your life by hitting them? Should it choose to select the family car because the motorcyclist would be in a more fatal condition, or should it choose to select the motorcyclist because it's just 1 life.

These are the moral quandaries we need to understand.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think it's probably great for people who are unable to drive, due to health and other issues.

I read that US authorities have been concerned about the potential false promotions of safety in earlier versions.

I'm hoping that official scrutiny is exhaustive and that we don't get dangerously driven vehicles. And that personal data is protected

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham


"I can imagine we aren't far off it managing very quiet big roads in countries where there is wide expanse of land and not many towns (ie more simple to navigate hazards etc)

But managing a very busy country like the UK just still seems far fetched to me!

It's all a bit too skynet for me!!

There’s still a healthy amount of skepticism / anticipation to see what it does in New York at Rush hour etc. It maybe that improvements are still necessary, but with the compute they have, updates and fixes should be quicker and easier, until there are no more fixes necessary.

Hades

x"

Well I expect honk it's horn for no good reason and drive in a straight line 20 yards until the next red light.

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By *orny-DJMan
over a year ago

Leigh-on-Sea

You'll never get me into a self-driving car - I enjoy driving too much

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"This isn't the real issue with self driving cars.

Consider the moral dilemma of selecting between two hazards, the Trolley dilemma.

Any self driving car would have to make an active decision. This is premeditated algorithmic murder.

Consider the issue of driving behind a truck carrying heavy goods. If one of those items drops, it's likely to kill you. Your choice is to veer to the left, or to the right. To the left is a family car, carrying children. To your right is a motorcyclist. Which one should the car actively select?

Should it choose to prioritise your life by hitting them? Should it choose to select the family car because the motorcyclist would be in a more fatal condition, or should it choose to select the motorcyclist because it's just 1 life.

These are the moral quandaries we need to understand."

Why is this just an issue for self driving cars? Any driver, computer or human, would have to make the same choice if faced with the same circumstances.

If there is a really a moral conundrum then why are you driving in the first place? If you have the answer, which you must do because you are driving, then just tell the computer how to solve it.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

If self driving cars are as good at driving as ChatGPT is at writing lab reports or answering exam questions, we should all be very worried indeed. Artificial intelligence isn't very intelligent, in my experience!

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"This isn't the real issue with self driving cars.

Consider the moral dilemma of selecting between two hazards, the Trolley dilemma.

Any self driving car would have to make an active decision. This is premeditated algorithmic murder.

Consider the issue of driving behind a truck carrying heavy goods. If one of those items drops, it's likely to kill you. Your choice is to veer to the left, or to the right. To the left is a family car, carrying children. To your right is a motorcyclist. Which one should the car actively select?

Should it choose to prioritise your life by hitting them? Should it choose to select the family car because the motorcyclist would be in a more fatal condition, or should it choose to select the motorcyclist because it's just 1 life.

These are the moral quandaries we need to understand.

Why is this just an issue for self driving cars? Any driver, computer or human, would have to make the same choice if faced with the same circumstances.

If there is a really a moral conundrum then why are you driving in the first place? If you have the answer, which you must do because you are driving, then just tell the computer how to solve it."

It's a moral conundrum because the AI system will genuinely compute and make a rational choice. A deliberate choice. Most humans in such circumstances don't make a carefully calculated choice. They do whatever instinctively they FEEL is best and we all know feelings are definitely not rational.

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By *JB1954Man
over a year ago

Reading

I have worked until retirement in December 2019 . In the automation industry. My job was mainly commissioning engineer. No matter how good programmer , commissioning engineer . There will be software ‘bugs’ . That depending on ‘conditions’ will cause a fault . You only have to look at the operating systems of phones , laptops and desktops . That problems do occur.

Plus for automated vehicles . They all will have to operate on the same ‘network’ . Plus have a non dropout internet connection. One dropout for less than a second will cause accidents.

So fully automated cars are many many years away . Especially in the Uk as places still do not have full fibre internet connections.

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By *echnosonic_BrummieMan
over a year ago

Willenhall

Just imagine if a few hundred people crammed into the same vehicle, went hundreds or thousands of miles without incident with just a driver to pull away and stop at the destination. In fact, the driver was only really there to take over in case the computer fucked up and was - statistically - more likely to fuck up than the computer was.

Welcome to air travel since 1970-something...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just imagine if a few hundred people crammed into the same vehicle, went hundreds or thousands of miles without incident with just a driver to pull away and stop at the destination. In fact, the driver was only really there to take over in case the computer fucked up and was - statistically - more likely to fuck up than the computer was.

Welcome to air travel since 1970-something... "

Except... Cars are more numerous, are kinda on a 2D plane and therefore more susceptible to the risk of collisions, and share a space with pedestrians, bicycles, trucks, buildings, etc etc

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple
over a year ago

Leeds

Don’t trust them.

A computer has no empathy. If a computer is driving down the road and a situation happens where it either has to swerve into 3 dogs or 1 child. It would choose the child as there is only one so the casualty rate is lower.

The mr

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fuck me. It’s jonnycab!!

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By *dward_TeagueMan
over a year ago

wolverhampton

My car has adaptive cruise control, all I do is steer it. As I see it we are part way to driverless cars already and if Musk wants something to happen then it usually does.

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By *illingToHelpMan
over a year ago

Oldham or South Shore

All I can hear, here, is; humans are dangerous, robots can do it better, humans are a threat, kill all humans.

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich


"This isn't the real issue with self driving cars.

Consider the moral dilemma of selecting between two hazards, the Trolley dilemma.

Any self driving car would have to make an active decision. This is premeditated algorithmic murder.

Consider the issue of driving behind a truck carrying heavy goods. If one of those items drops, it's likely to kill you. Your choice is to veer to the left, or to the right. To the left is a family car, carrying children. To your right is a motorcyclist. Which one should the car actively select?

Should it choose to prioritise your life by hitting them? Should it choose to select the family car because the motorcyclist would be in a more fatal condition, or should it choose to select the motorcyclist because it's just 1 life.

These are the moral quandaries we need to understand."

Most likely it will choose the motorcyclist as the lowest insurance payout.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"This isn't the real issue with self driving cars.

Consider the moral dilemma of selecting between two hazards, the Trolley dilemma.

Any self driving car would have to make an active decision. This is premeditated algorithmic murder.

Consider the issue of driving behind a truck carrying heavy goods. If one of those items drops, it's likely to kill you. Your choice is to veer to the left, or to the right. To the left is a family car, carrying children. To your right is a motorcyclist. Which one should the car actively select?

Should it choose to prioritise your life by hitting them? Should it choose to select the family car because the motorcyclist would be in a more fatal condition, or should it choose to select the motorcyclist because it's just 1 life.

These are the moral quandaries we need to understand.

Why is this just an issue for self driving cars? Any driver, computer or human, would have to make the same choice if faced with the same circumstances.

If there is a really a moral conundrum then why are you driving in the first place? If you have the answer, which you must do because you are driving, then just tell the computer how to solve it.

It's a moral conundrum because the AI system will genuinely compute and make a rational choice. A deliberate choice. Most humans in such circumstances don't make a carefully calculated choice. They do whatever instinctively they FEEL is best and we all know feelings are definitely not rational. "

So isn’t the _real_ moral conundrum actually whether we should let humans drive at all if they are not capable of making a carefully calculated choice?

Seems weird that we would be more concerned about something that tries to make a calculated choice but fails than we are about something that doesn’t even try to make a calculated choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This isn't the real issue with self driving cars.

Consider the moral dilemma of selecting between two hazards, the Trolley dilemma.

Any self driving car would have to make an active decision. This is premeditated algorithmic murder.

Consider the issue of driving behind a truck carrying heavy goods. If one of those items drops, it's likely to kill you. Your choice is to veer to the left, or to the right. To the left is a family car, carrying children. To your right is a motorcyclist. Which one should the car actively select?

Should it choose to prioritise your life by hitting them? Should it choose to select the family car because the motorcyclist would be in a more fatal condition, or should it choose to select the motorcyclist because it's just 1 life.

These are the moral quandaries we need to understand.

Why is this just an issue for self driving cars? Any driver, computer or human, would have to make the same choice if faced with the same circumstances.

If there is a really a moral conundrum then why are you driving in the first place? If you have the answer, which you must do because you are driving, then just tell the computer how to solve it.

It's a moral conundrum because the AI system will genuinely compute and make a rational choice. A deliberate choice. Most humans in such circumstances don't make a carefully calculated choice. They do whatever instinctively they FEEL is best and we all know feelings are definitely not rational.

So isn’t the _real_ moral conundrum actually whether we should let humans drive at all if they are not capable of making a carefully calculated choice?

Seems weird that we would be more concerned about something that tries to make a calculated choice but fails than we are about something that doesn’t even try to make a calculated choice. "

You'd think. However the outcome of said algorithmic choices is tantamount to premeditated murder

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

Well, all I can say is, the day it’s all self driving cars on the road, is the day I stop driving

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm definitely looking forward to the improvements of v12.

However, I think we need the coders and people working on it to live in the UK to fully understand the driving style here.

The computer just can't understand parked cars on a road and disengaged. Also round abouts and you need to take over.

It works great in North America but very poorly here unless you're on the motorway which is similar to Roads over there.

Would I get in a driverless car, absolutely.

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By *ackdaw52Man
over a year ago

Chesterfield

Mentioning driverless cars seems to send all motorists into an absolute rage.

Which reveals the problem- every driver believes that they are perfect and everyone else is the problem.

Personally I think the roads would be loads better and safer with only AI cars.

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester

Its all a matter of time technology marches on whether we like it or not, driving for me is the actual feel of driving, the speed the art of driving and technology and money to support the the local police force get in the way of the enjoyment, you just have to accept that every now and again something will come along to ruin it

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

Fully behind it. So many bad drivers out there.

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester


"Fully behind it. So many bad drivers out there. "
so a bad computer makes it better

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Question.

Do you need a driving license for a self driving car...????

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester


"Question.

Do you need a driving license for a self driving car...????"
no you dont even need eyes so blindfolded is acceptable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Question.

Do you need a driving license for a self driving car...????no you dont even need eyes so blindfolded is acceptable "

That'll please Stevie Wonder then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Question.

Do you need a driving license for a self driving car...????"

That’s actually….. a great fucking question.

My teenage kid is a wiz on computers and can open apps on a phone.

Also, a computer or phone never crashes……

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester


"Question.

Do you need a driving license for a self driving car...????no you dont even need eyes so blindfolded is acceptable

That'll please Stevie Wonder then"
have you seen his sister?

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London

The motorways are going to be filled with cars with people having sex in the back seat. It's gonna be wild.

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By *ittall2020Man
over a year ago

Norwich

They have just been withdrawn in the US after a load of accidents with the trial ones- this is from Reuter's website. It seems the final straw was when one ran someone over & then wouldn't move off them, so they had to get a machine in to lift it off

SAN FRANCISCO/WASHINGTON, Oct 24 (Reuters) - California on Tuesday ordered General Motors' (GM.N) Cruise unit to remove its driverless cars from state roads, calling the vehicles a risk to the public and saying the company had "misrepresented" the safety of the technology.

California's Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) said it suspended Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment and driverless testing permit, ending efforts by the company for the time being to test the cars without safety drivers.

"Based upon the performance of the vehicles, the department determines the manufacturer's vehicles are not safe for the public's operation," the DMV said in a statement, citing "an unreasonable risk to public safety."

The DMV added that Cruise had "misrepresented any information related to safety of the autonomous technology of its vehicles." The state agency said Cruise is allowed to challenge the suspension within five days. The company did not say if it planned to do that.

The suspension, following a series of accidents involving Cruise vehicles, is a major setback to the self-driving business that GM has called a major growth opportunity and to the autonomous vehicle (AV) industry.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Question.

Do you need a driving license for a self driving car...????no you dont even need eyes so blindfolded is acceptable

That'll please Stevie Wonder thenhave you seen his sister? "

No but I hear she's better at Rubik's cube than he is

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London

Seriously speaking, it can only be a good thing. If all cars are self driving, the number of accidents would be reduced massively. Sure there are some ethical questions. Hopefully the cars aren't put in a situation where these ethical dilemmas come into picture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Really don't know how to feel about this whole debate, as a biker I see the absolute worst of drivers every single day and some of those people having decision making relegated? Good thing..

On the other hand. How does this account for the decision making based on experience and reaction to every single given circumstance can't be possible. There's always that chance, however unlikely, that something comes up the car can't anticipate or react to correctly or acts how it thinks it should, wrongly..take the guy killed by the production line robot due to a sensor failure recently

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester


"Question.

Do you need a driving license for a self driving car...????no you dont even need eyes so blindfolded is acceptable

That'll please Stevie Wonder thenhave you seen his sister?

No but I hear she's better at Rubik's cube than he is"
surely they just say "done it"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The motorways are going to be filled with cars with people having sex in the back seat. It's gonna be wild."

And in reality world where the rest of us live... it'll be jammed up motorways of car's going fucking nowhere because every man, woman, child, cat and fluffy bunny will have a car!!!

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"They have just been withdrawn in the US after a load of accidents with the trial ones- this is from Reuter's website. It seems the final straw was when one ran someone over & then wouldn't move off them, so they had to get a machine in to lift it off

SAN FRANCISCO/WASHINGTON, Oct 24 (Reuters) - California on Tuesday ordered General Motors' (GM.N) Cruise unit to remove its driverless cars from state roads, calling the vehicles a risk to the public and saying the company had "misrepresented" the safety of the technology.

California's Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) said it suspended Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment and driverless testing permit, ending efforts by the company for the time being to test the cars without safety drivers.

"Based upon the performance of the vehicles, the department determines the manufacturer's vehicles are not safe for the public's operation," the DMV said in a statement, citing "an unreasonable risk to public safety."

The DMV added that Cruise had "misrepresented any information related to safety of the autonomous technology of its vehicles." The state agency said Cruise is allowed to challenge the suspension within five days. The company did not say if it planned to do that.

The suspension, following a series of accidents involving Cruise vehicles, is a major setback to the self-driving business that GM has called a major growth opportunity and to the autonomous vehicle (AV) industry."

Yeah Cruise which it appears was fibbing about the kind of autonomy it was using, had been caught out lying to regulators. Cruise’s license being withdrawn should not be mistaken for all autonomous vehicle licenses being withdrawn.

Waymo has been in two collisions in the last year and neither were its fault. It has issues in terms of economic viability but Robotaxis are not bad across the board.

Tesla hasn’t applied for its license yet, but I suspect it will within the year, depending on the progress of V12, which I also suspect will be easily good enough.

Hades

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester


"Really don't know how to feel about this whole debate, as a biker I see the absolute worst of drivers every single day and some of those people having decision making relegated? Good thing..

On the other hand. How does this account for the decision making based on experience and reaction to every single given circumstance can't be possible. There's always that chance, however unlikely, that something comes up the car can't anticipate or react to correctly or acts how it thinks it should, wrongly..take the guy killed by the production line robot due to a sensor failure recently "
Exactly machines go wrong, how would you feel if a relative or friend was killed by a machine going wrong and who is at fault surely the manufacturer?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Really don't know how to feel about this whole debate, as a biker I see the absolute worst of drivers every single day and some of those people having decision making relegated? Good thing..

On the other hand. How does this account for the decision making based on experience and reaction to every single given circumstance can't be possible. There's always that chance, however unlikely, that something comes up the car can't anticipate or react to correctly or acts how it thinks it should, wrongly..take the guy killed by the production line robot due to a sensor failure recently Exactly machines go wrong, how would you feel if a relative or friend was killed by a machine going wrong and who is at fault surely the manufacturer? "

Dude you seriously need to stop watching Terminator films...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Really don't know how to feel about this whole debate, as a biker I see the absolute worst of drivers every single day and some of those people having decision making relegated? Good thing..

On the other hand. How does this account for the decision making based on experience and reaction to every single given circumstance can't be possible. There's always that chance, however unlikely, that something comes up the car can't anticipate or react to correctly or acts how it thinks it should, wrongly..take the guy killed by the production line robot due to a sensor failure recently Exactly machines go wrong, how would you feel if a relative or friend was killed by a machine going wrong and who is at fault surely the manufacturer? "

I think the who's at fault thing is overplayed, for me it's the "how much are we willing to accept risk"

How can we quantify the risk of the developing technology, doubtless it will continue to get better, whens th right time to just trust it?

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"Should be a disaster on the small lanes around this way,dodging potholes and having to pass by pulling off the road onto muddy verges..see if a computer can judge how slippery and deep the mud is "

I absolutely understand the skepticism, they haven’t been seen in this country yet, but they learning from humans, so using inference it will drive as any other human-controlled Tesla would. I hope it’s a pleasant suprise when they drive

Hades

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester


"Really don't know how to feel about this whole debate, as a biker I see the absolute worst of drivers every single day and some of those people having decision making relegated? Good thing..

On the other hand. How does this account for the decision making based on experience and reaction to every single given circumstance can't be possible. There's always that chance, however unlikely, that something comes up the car can't anticipate or react to correctly or acts how it thinks it should, wrongly..take the guy killed by the production line robot due to a sensor failure recently Exactly machines go wrong, how would you feel if a relative or friend was killed by a machine going wrong and who is at fault surely the manufacturer?

Dude you seriously need to stop watching Terminator films... "
omg they can transform as well

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"Question.

Do you need a driving license for a self driving car...????"

Nope.

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"Fully behind it. So many bad drivers out there. "

They will likely roll out some driver safety aspects of FSD for free to decrease accidents. They have already rolled out emergency braking when cars cross in front of Tesla’s. Apparently this is a hard thing to achieve using the cars sensors / cameras.

Hades

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"Mentioning driverless cars seems to send all motorists into an absolute rage.

Which reveals the problem- every driver believes that they are perfect and everyone else is the problem.

Personally I think the roads would be loads better and safer with only AI cars."

Humans will have to have special dispensation to be able to drive at some point. The goal is to make the multiple times safer than humans.

Hades

x

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"I have worked until retirement in December 2019 . In the automation industry. My job was mainly commissioning engineer. No matter how good programmer , commissioning engineer . There will be software ‘bugs’ . That depending on ‘conditions’ will cause a fault . You only have to look at the operating systems of phones , laptops and desktops . That problems do occur.

Plus for automated vehicles . They all will have to operate on the same ‘network’ . Plus have a non dropout internet connection. One dropout for less than a second will cause accidents.

So fully automated cars are many many years away . Especially in the Uk as places still do not have full fibre internet connections.

"

FSD has been in Beta for a few years to iron out the bugs. The difference with this version of self driving though is that there shouldn’t be as many bugs from the outset, with the car having driving millions of miles more than any human in training.

The cars won’t need to be attached to the network to drive, in fact Musks claim is that they won’t even need maps, although the proof will be in the pudding. There are lost claims to fulfil, but having made them I have every confidence in Musk to deliver.

Hades

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"I can imagine we aren't far off it managing very quiet big roads in countries where there is wide expanse of land and not many towns (ie more simple to navigate hazards etc)

But managing a very busy country like the UK just still seems far fetched to me!

It's all a bit too skynet for me!!

There’s still a healthy amount of skepticism / anticipation to see what it does in New York at Rush hour etc. It maybe that improvements are still necessary, but with the compute they have, updates and fixes should be quicker and easier, until there are no more fixes necessary.

Hades

x

Well I expect honk it's horn for no good reason and drive in a straight line 20 yards until the next red light. "

When in Rome

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London

There are also other companies working on self driving cars. I expect them to collaborate soon and set some standards on how the cars navigate, in order to improve safety

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"Really don't know how to feel about this whole debate, as a biker I see the absolute worst of drivers every single day and some of those people having decision making relegated? Good thing..

On the other hand. How does this account for the decision making based on experience and reaction to every single given circumstance can't be possible. There's always that chance, however unlikely, that something comes up the car can't anticipate or react to correctly or acts how it thinks it should, wrongly..take the guy killed by the production line robot due to a sensor failure recently Exactly machines go wrong, how would you feel if a relative or friend was killed by a machine going wrong and who is at fault surely the manufacturer?

I think the who's at fault thing is overplayed, for me it's the "how much are we willing to accept risk"

How can we quantify the risk of the developing technology, doubtless it will continue to get better, whens th right time to just trust it?"

That’s a good question and probably the key question for regulators. If they drive for months without intervention, would it be appropriaate to license them?

I know the ambitions with this are world-wide, so there’s a lot of regulation to overcome.

Hades

x

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London


"The motorways are going to be filled with cars with people having sex in the back seat. It's gonna be wild.

And in reality world where the rest of us live... it'll be jammed up motorways of car's going fucking nowhere because every man, woman, child, cat and fluffy bunny will have a car!!!"

That's where it gets interesting. There are a couple of companies which are planning to launch flying cars in the US in 2025. They are already testing the flying cars. So your traffic problem is solved

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"I have worked until retirement in December 2019 . In the automation industry. My job was mainly commissioning engineer. No matter how good programmer , commissioning engineer . There will be software ‘bugs’ . That depending on ‘conditions’ will cause a fault . You only have to look at the operating systems of phones , laptops and desktops . That problems do occur.

Plus for automated vehicles . They all will have to operate on the same ‘network’ . Plus have a non dropout internet connection. One dropout for less than a second will cause accidents.

So fully automated cars are many many years away . Especially in the Uk as places still do not have full fibre internet connections.

FSD has been in Beta for a few years to iron out the bugs. The difference with this version of self driving though is that there shouldn’t be as many bugs from the outset, with the car having driving millions of miles more than any human in training.

The cars won’t need to be attached to the network to drive, in fact Musks claim is that they won’t even need maps, although the proof will be in the pudding. There are lost claims to fulfil, but having made them I have every confidence in Musk to deliver.

Hades"

I have zero confidence in Musk to do anything. He's just the gob and the money behind the outfit. Actual engineers are the ones making it (maybe) a reality. Musk is a tin pot plonker who needs to be reined in, quite frankly.

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By *ackdaw52Man
over a year ago

Chesterfield

I always roll my eyes when people start citing SD car accidents from five years ago.

How many accidents have there been in human piloted cars since then?

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"I always roll my eyes when people start citing SD car accidents from five years ago.

How many accidents have there been in human piloted cars since then?"

Perfectly put, well-made point. Humans piloted cars have been responsible for the death of more than a million people this year. At some point humans will need likely be stopped from driving, just from an insurance point of view if nothing else.

Hades

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"The motorways are going to be filled with cars with people having sex in the back seat. It's gonna be wild.

And in reality world where the rest of us live... it'll be jammed up motorways of car's going fucking nowhere because every man, woman, child, cat and fluffy bunny will have a car!!!

That's where it gets interesting. There are a couple of companies which are planning to launch flying cars in the US in 2025. They are already testing the flying cars. So your traffic problem is solved "

There are! Some of them look really interesting too.

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By *aretobareCouple
over a year ago

Central Portugal

We have a Tesla and must admit that after experiencing the simplicity, vastly reduced fuel costs (Ours runs off our solar 90% of the time), reliability and ease to drive they do make ICE cars look so backwards. The fact it has far more features now than when we bought it is also a bonus. We still don't trust the autopilot more due to the width of the cars and the narrowness of Portuguese roads.

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"There are also other companies working on self driving cars. I expect them to collaborate soon and set some standards on how the cars navigate, in order to improve safety"

I don’t expect them to collaborate on technology, but they may get together to decide on protocols of how Autonomous Vehicles fit in safely with each other and with human drivers. Each car though has its own sensors and software to ensure safety from all other cars, so I don’t think it’s a complete necessity.

Hades

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By *andadbodMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

i just don’t understand why anyone is pursuing this, I mean, who first thought of the idea of a driverless car? Why do they think we need this kind of tech?

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up


"Some of the reckless idiots I've endured on the road this week are more scary than self driving cars.

The future they are predicting will mean that humans will be regarded as so dangerous compared to the safety of self-driving cars, that some governments will consider stopping humans driving at all.

Hades"
over my dead body. I drive my car recreationally I don't often like other humans driving me

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"We have a Tesla and must admit that after experiencing the simplicity, vastly reduced fuel costs (Ours runs off our solar 90% of the time), reliability and ease to drive they do make ICE cars look so backwards. The fact it has far more features now than when we bought it is also a bonus. We still don't trust the autopilot more due to the width of the cars and the narrowness of Portuguese roads."

Our plan is to do exactly this, solar panels, batteries and an electric car, more than likely a Tesla, because of they’re enormous technological advances of the rest of the market.

Have you worked out how much each mile costs? I have heard quotes of 3/4p per mile.

Hades

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"i just don’t understand why anyone is pursuing this, I mean, who first thought of the idea of a driverless car? Why do they think we need this kind of tech?"

There is a good chance that driverless cars will replace Taxi's, Busses, and lorries... basically anything that currently requires PAYING a driver just for driving.

One of the favoured "models" for cars of the future, is that subscription services will replace ownership. Rather than owning a car, you will just summon one through an app whenever you require one. No need to pay for parking, no issues with charging, etc. It is a model that might work well for large cities, but certainly isn't ideal for everyone.

Cal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Some of the reckless idiots I've endured on the road this week are more scary than self driving cars.

The future they are predicting will mean that humans will be regarded as so dangerous compared to the safety of self-driving cars, that some governments will consider stopping humans driving at all.

Hadesover my dead body. I drive my car recreationally I don't often like other humans driving me "

Same!

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By *esafinadOHolyNightMan
over a year ago

Belfast

I like driving and I'm good at it, careful and I don't speed. I do however like being in control of my car, I love shifting from gear to gear, and hitting the sweet spot before changing. Driving has always been 1 of the few things that has always given me joy, even on traffic packed roads.

If it is possible to switch the AI off at times and take control when I wanted then I would be happy enough with the car driving itself at times. If not, I would miss the joys of driving.

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"I like driving and I'm good at it, careful and I don't speed. I do however like being in control of my car, I love shifting from gear to gear, and hitting the sweet spot before changing. Driving has always been 1 of the few things that has always given me joy, even on traffic packed roads.

If it is possible to switch the AI off at times and take control when I wanted then I would be happy enough with the car driving itself at times. If not, I would miss the joys of driving. "

Tesla’s FSD is driver activated. So it’s off until you ask it to take over for you. If we do get to the point where humans are prevented from driving by Governments, it’ll be because of public outcry as a result of safety concerns / accident statistics so that’s will be years from where we are now.

FSD is a paid-for addition to Tesla cars and even when you’ve paid for it, you don’t have to use it.

Hades

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By *esafinadOHolyNightMan
over a year ago

Belfast


"I like driving and I'm good at it, careful and I don't speed. I do however like being in control of my car, I love shifting from gear to gear, and hitting the sweet spot before changing. Driving has always been 1 of the few things that has always given me joy, even on traffic packed roads.

If it is possible to switch the AI off at times and take control when I wanted then I would be happy enough with the car driving itself at times. If not, I would miss the joys of driving.

Tesla’s FSD is driver activated. So it’s off until you ask it to take over for you. If we do get to the point where humans are prevented from driving by Governments, it’ll be because of public outcry as a result of safety concerns / accident statistics so that’s will be years from where we are now.

FSD is a paid-for addition to Tesla cars and even when you’ve paid for it, you don’t have to use it.

Hades"

That sounds like something a can get onboard with then, pardon the pun

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think it's a great idea IF they can start sharing information with each other. A nice little motor hivemind. Imagine the reduction in crashes of they all worked with each other

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I have zero confidence in Musk to do anything. He's just the gob and the money behind the outfit. Actual engineers are the ones making it (maybe) a reality. Musk is a tin pot plonker who needs to be reined in, quite frankly. "

Which is interesting as many people at the top of their fields comment on his ability to dialogue with them at the highest level and then do the same thing in someone in a completely differant industry.

I'm not a fan of musk (or a hater) but it's surprising you would question his ability or competency

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By *otsossieMan
over a year ago

Chesterfield

Musk reduced the sensors to cut costs. Thats all you need to know.

Then they released a promo video with the wheel whizzing back and forth as the car tried to drive in a straight line, ignored a STOP sign, and nearly mowed down a pedestrian. In their promo vid!

The Tech isn’t quite there yet, and the spinmongers aren’t trustworthy.

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By *otsossieMan
over a year ago

Chesterfield


"I'm not a fan of musk (or a hater) but it's surprising you would question his ability or competency "

I would 100% question both his ability and competency.

He’s a stoned lunatic spending his inheritance.

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

I remember when this kind of talk was called is-fi.

Good to see this now happening, but cautious about A.I element of this technology.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"i just don’t understand why anyone is pursuing this, I mean, who first thought of the idea of a driverless car? Why do they think we need this kind of tech?"

Their profits

The motivation to help get d*unk drivers not to drive, to get disabled people out of isolated lives, etc isn't a driving force

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

He’s a stoned lunatic spending his inheritance. "

Stoned ? You talking about the podcast where he attempted to smoke week hahahaa

Lunatic I agree with.

He inherited 100s of billions of dollars?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Weed*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Have they improved the software so it can detect hazards? "

It's better than it has been, UK law isn't allowing it yet anyway

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By *2000ManMan
over a year ago

Worthing

In the uk there will always be people trying to wave in front of the cars trying to get them to swerve.

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London


"I'm not a fan of musk (or a hater) but it's surprising you would question his ability or competency

I would 100% question both his ability and competency.

He’s a stoned lunatic spending his inheritance. "

How much did he inherit? What's his net worth now?

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London


"

I have zero confidence in Musk to do anything. He's just the gob and the money behind the outfit. Actual engineers are the ones making it (maybe) a reality. Musk is a tin pot plonker who needs to be reined in, quite frankly.

Which is interesting as many people at the top of their fields comment on his ability to dialogue with them at the highest level and then do the same thing in someone in a completely differant industry.

I'm not a fan of musk (or a hater) but it's surprising you would question his ability or competency "

People like to shit on successful people. Is he a jerk? Yes. Is he incompetent? Not at all.

The world needs people like him who are willing to invest money on big but risky innovations. Without Tesla, the world would still be waiting for the terrible electric vehicles built by the age old automobile manufacturers like Ford and Volkswagen.

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By *ennyleeeWoman
over a year ago

Southampton

Most guys could do with these.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

The only thing he seems to be able to do well is have a fan club. Not worth my life, and I'm glad that so far these things are not allowed on public roads anywhere I'm likely to go.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"

I have zero confidence in Musk to do anything. He's just the gob and the money behind the outfit. Actual engineers are the ones making it (maybe) a reality. Musk is a tin pot plonker who needs to be reined in, quite frankly.

Which is interesting as many people at the top of their fields comment on his ability to dialogue with them at the highest level and then do the same thing in someone in a completely differant industry.

I'm not a fan of musk (or a hater) but it's surprising you would question his ability or competency

People like to shit on successful people. Is he a jerk? Yes. Is he incompetent? Not at all.

The world needs people like him who are willing to invest money on big but risky innovations. Without Tesla, the world would still be waiting for the terrible electric vehicles built by the age old automobile manufacturers like Ford and Volkswagen."

Musk is a deeply unpleasant person, from what I can make out. There are plenty of other successful people in the world and with whom I have no issue.

Musk hasn't designed or engineered the Tesla vehicles. He acquired the company and has led/fronted and financed it. The people developing the autonomous tech are the engineers and scientists in the background, it is their work that may well finish up with fully autonomous vehicles and whose work has resulted in the electric cars on the road now.

I would suggest that these engineers and scientists are also very successful people and I have, again, zero issue with them.

I don't drive an electric car because at present, they are too expensive; the infrastructure is completely unaccessible to wheelchair users and so far, every single electric car I've investigated has insufficient boot height and space to take a rigid frame wheelchair without taking it to bits. This means the product is utterly useless to me at present. I remain in my adapted 12yo diesel estate car for now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Driverless cars aren't a potential. Its the reality and its coming quick. HGV driver jobs will fall off a cliff

Surprises me people can't see the benefit of a system that doesn't get tired, make silly mistakes or poor decisions. Cars already read road signs and make decisions based off of them now and that's without the innovations currently in hand

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By *hillenCouple
over a year ago

Borehamwood

On motorways and larger roads then yes. But on the 1000s of miles of single track roads I can't see how it'd work. A car and a van meet and one has to reverse back to find a passing place. The car has another 3 behind it while the van is followed by a tractor and would need to reverse uphill. How would everyday situations like this be resolved? Humans generally reconcile this by a form of non verbal negotiation which I don't believe an self driving vehicle could achieve.

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London


"

I have zero confidence in Musk to do anything. He's just the gob and the money behind the outfit. Actual engineers are the ones making it (maybe) a reality. Musk is a tin pot plonker who needs to be reined in, quite frankly.

Which is interesting as many people at the top of their fields comment on his ability to dialogue with them at the highest level and then do the same thing in someone in a completely differant industry.

I'm not a fan of musk (or a hater) but it's surprising you would question his ability or competency

People like to shit on successful people. Is he a jerk? Yes. Is he incompetent? Not at all.

The world needs people like him who are willing to invest money on big but risky innovations. Without Tesla, the world would still be waiting for the terrible electric vehicles built by the age old automobile manufacturers like Ford and Volkswagen.

Musk is a deeply unpleasant person, from what I can make out. There are plenty of other successful people in the world and with whom I have no issue.

Musk hasn't designed or engineered the Tesla vehicles. He acquired the company and has led/fronted and financed it. The people developing the autonomous tech are the engineers and scientists in the background, it is their work that may well finish up with fully autonomous vehicles and whose work has resulted in the electric cars on the road now.

I would suggest that these engineers and scientists are also very successful people and I have, again, zero issue with them.

I don't drive an electric car because at present, they are too expensive; the infrastructure is completely unaccessible to wheelchair users and so far, every single electric car I've investigated has insufficient boot height and space to take a rigid frame wheelchair without taking it to bits. This means the product is utterly useless to me at present. I remain in my adapted 12yo diesel estate car for now. "

I 100% agree that he is an unpleasant person. He is a narcissistic asshole if we are being frank

I also understand why you don't want to use electric cars.

It's unfair to ignore his contribution to Tesla by saying he is just an investor. Engineers can come up with ideas. But you need a CEO who backs these ideas and take the risk in the process. Every big company is filled with innovative people who wish their senior leaders had the appetite to take risks, instead of just playing it safe, making profits to keep shareholders happy.

It's not like Musk doesn't focus on profits. But he is willing to take risks be it with pricing or supercharger strategies or with self driving. You just have to see how volatile Tesla stocks are. A guy from my university works at Tesla and his views about him have been mostly positive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"On motorways and larger roads then yes. But on the 1000s of miles of single track roads I can't see how it'd work. A car and a van meet and one has to reverse back to find a passing place. The car has another 3 behind it while the van is followed by a tractor and would need to reverse uphill. How would everyday situations like this be resolved? Humans generally reconcile this by a form of non verbal negotiation which I don't believe an self driving vehicle could achieve. "

If they were connected to each other...

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

Have none of them watched terminator for goodness sakes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://youtu.be/ixp0kiWoxlA?si=0dyPCOyaHQXD-1Q7

Watch this and you won't be to much of a rush for driverless Tesla's.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why? ^^^

Do you genuinely think in 50 years we won't look back and be astounded we accepted 100s of thousands of people a year died in car crashes?

Driverless cars are coming, the same way people who thought horse drawn carts weren't going anywhere, piloted cars will die a death

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By *ohnSwingsSurreyMan
over a year ago

Horley

Think the insurance industry are going to have to do a lot of prep work during the changeover

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery

Previous versions of FSD have been in beta for a few years, in the legal and pre-read instructions it’s says clearly that FSD will make mistakes at a time when you least expect it and that human supervision of that beta software requires human supervision.

FSD V12 is a complete departure from previous code-written driving. What Tesla have achieved is a way of training an AI model by showing it video and it learning how to drive from that. An equally great achievement is that they have also given their supercomputer the ability to create AI-generated driving scenes and driving through them as a way of training itself.

What that means is the computer can train itself and do so 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. As a result over the course of this new V12 build, the computer has driven millions and million of miles in training through very difficult driving situations and anything the software engineers can throw at it.

The V12 demo driving by Musk earlier this year demonstrated that the computer has gone from not being able to drive at all in November 2022 to accomplished by August / September 2023. Since then Tesla has spent of hundreds of millions of training hardware and are no longer compute-constrained.

Musk is polarising, but in fact he is an engineer and is a CEO who understands in granular detail the challenges that his engineers face and understands how to solve them. The man is tortured and arguably haunted to the point of believing in working to the point of exhaustion. He is a visionary and has a personality (love it or hate it) which has and will change the world, in my assessment for the better.

As for self-driving, it’s coming. It will lead to transport, in cars which don’t pump out poisonous fumes and which cost a fraction of what they do now per mile. We can either angrily shake our fists at the sky, or we can accept it.

Hades

x

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By *ulieAndBeefCouple
over a year ago

Manchester-ish


"Previous versions of FSD have been in beta for a few years, in the legal and pre-read instructions it’s says clearly that FSD will make mistakes at a time when you least expect it and that human supervision of that beta software requires human supervision.

FSD V12 is a complete departure from previous code-written driving. What Tesla have achieved is a way of training an AI model by showing it video and it learning how to drive from that. An equally great achievement is that they have also given their supercomputer the ability to create AI-generated driving scenes and driving through them as a way of training itself.

What that means is the computer can train itself and do so 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. As a result over the course of this new V12 build, the computer has driven millions and million of miles in training through very difficult driving situations and anything the software engineers can throw at it.

The V12 demo driving by Musk earlier this year demonstrated that the computer has gone from not being able to drive at all in November 2022 to accomplished by August / September 2023. Since then Tesla has spent of hundreds of millions of training hardware and are no longer compute-constrained.

Musk is polarising, but in fact he is an engineer and is a CEO who understands in granular detail the challenges that his engineers face and understands how to solve them. The man is tortured and arguably haunted to the point of believing in working to the point of exhaustion. He is a visionary and has a personality (love it or hate it) which has and will change the world, in my assessment for the better.

As for self-driving, it’s coming. It will lead to transport, in cars which don’t pump out poisonous fumes and which cost a fraction of what they do now per mile. We can either angrily shake our fists at the sky, or we can accept it.

Hades

x"

I've not read all the in between posts but I've read your first and last posts Hades. Your knowledge is a bit sexy and rather persuasive!

J

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"https://youtu.be/ixp0kiWoxlA?si=0dyPCOyaHQXD-1Q7

Watch this and you won't be to much of a rush for driverless Tesla's."

Blowing through stop signs seems super safe

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"Previous versions of FSD have been in beta for a few years, in the legal and pre-read instructions it’s says clearly that FSD will make mistakes at a time when you least expect it and that human supervision of that beta software requires human supervision.

FSD V12 is a complete departure from previous code-written driving. What Tesla have achieved is a way of training an AI model by showing it video and it learning how to drive from that. An equally great achievement is that they have also given their supercomputer the ability to create AI-generated driving scenes and driving through them as a way of training itself.

What that means is the computer can train itself and do so 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. As a result over the course of this new V12 build, the computer has driven millions and million of miles in training through very difficult driving situations and anything the software engineers can throw at it.

The V12 demo driving by Musk earlier this year demonstrated that the computer has gone from not being able to drive at all in November 2022 to accomplished by August / September 2023. Since then Tesla has spent of hundreds of millions of training hardware and are no longer compute-constrained.

Musk is polarising, but in fact he is an engineer and is a CEO who understands in granular detail the challenges that his engineers face and understands how to solve them. The man is tortured and arguably haunted to the point of believing in working to the point of exhaustion. He is a visionary and has a personality (love it or hate it) which has and will change the world, in my assessment for the better.

As for self-driving, it’s coming. It will lead to transport, in cars which don’t pump out poisonous fumes and which cost a fraction of what they do now per mile. We can either angrily shake our fists at the sky, or we can accept it.

Hades

x

I've not read all the in between posts but I've read your first and last posts Hades. Your knowledge is a bit sexy and rather persuasive!

J"

I can be very persuasive when I want to be J

Hades

x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When they’re affordable, I’ll have one.

I fuckin hate driving now.

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"https://youtu.be/ixp0kiWoxlA?si=0dyPCOyaHQXD-1Q7

Watch this and you won't be to much of a rush for driverless Tesla's.

Blowing through stop signs seems super safe "

V12 doesn’t miss stop signs. It’s trained entirely differently. Interestingly, from the data collected by their cars only 0.5 percent of drivers actually stop at stop signs. The rest actually roll them at low speed. Tesla had to curate the training video it showed the supercomputer to teach it to stop at stop signs. In practice, when current V11 software stops at stop signs they get beeped at by drivers behind.

There’s a lot of FUD and misinformation both about Musk and Tesla out there by haters, rivals big oil to name but a few. The data though shows that Tesla is not what the haters say it is. The stop sign issue is resolved in V12. There’s not much more I can say about that.

Hades

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"https://youtu.be/ixp0kiWoxlA?si=0dyPCOyaHQXD-1Q7

Watch this and you won't be to much of a rush for driverless Tesla's.

Blowing through stop signs seems super safe

V12 doesn’t miss stop signs. It’s trained entirely differently. Interestingly, from the data collected by their cars only 0.5 percent of drivers actually stop at stop signs. The rest actually roll them at low speed. Tesla had to curate the training video it showed the supercomputer to teach it to stop at stop signs. In practice, when current V11 software stops at stop signs they get beeped at by drivers behind.

There’s a lot of FUD and misinformation both about Musk and Tesla out there by haters, rivals big oil to name but a few. The data though shows that Tesla is not what the haters say it is. The stop sign issue is resolved in V12. There’s not much more I can say about that.

Hades"

The video linked shows a Tesla self driving car blowing through a stop sign, along with other near misses. The two people in the video are clearly fanbois who brush it off.

I'll believe my own eyes, if it's all the same. It's right there, and is not unambiguous.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"https://youtu.be/ixp0kiWoxlA?si=0dyPCOyaHQXD-1Q7

Watch this and you won't be to much of a rush for driverless Tesla's.

Blowing through stop signs seems super safe

V12 doesn’t miss stop signs. It’s trained entirely differently. Interestingly, from the data collected by their cars only 0.5 percent of drivers actually stop at stop signs. The rest actually roll them at low speed. Tesla had to curate the training video it showed the supercomputer to teach it to stop at stop signs. In practice, when current V11 software stops at stop signs they get beeped at by drivers behind.

There’s a lot of FUD and misinformation both about Musk and Tesla out there by haters, rivals big oil to name but a few. The data though shows that Tesla is not what the haters say it is. The stop sign issue is resolved in V12. There’s not much more I can say about that.

Hades

The video linked shows a Tesla self driving car blowing through a stop sign, along with other near misses. The two people in the video are clearly fanbois who brush it off.

I'll believe my own eyes, if it's all the same. It's right there, and is not unambiguous."

Not ambiguous

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why? ^^^

Do you genuinely think in 50 years we won't look back and be astounded we accepted 100s of thousands of people a year died in car crashes?

Driverless cars are coming, the same way people who thought horse drawn carts weren't going anywhere, piloted cars will die a death"

I've no doubt its will be the norm one day. Just don't believe its around the corner. To many pitfalls and glitches at the moment has shown in the video I posted.Even in the US where the infrastructure is more car friendly. Our roads are miles away. Towns have been doing away with car space and we have many more other road users randomly crossing our paths.

Am all for new technology, have a fully electric car I bought 4 years ago before the public hullabaloo started.

Just think self drive are a while away. But agree they will make roads safer, eventually.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"https://youtu.be/ixp0kiWoxlA?si=0dyPCOyaHQXD-1Q7

Watch this and you won't be to much of a rush for driverless Tesla's.

Blowing through stop signs seems super safe

V12 doesn’t miss stop signs. It’s trained entirely differently. Interestingly, from the data collected by their cars only 0.5 percent of drivers actually stop at stop signs. The rest actually roll them at low speed. Tesla had to curate the training video it showed the supercomputer to teach it to stop at stop signs. In practice, when current V11 software stops at stop signs they get beeped at by drivers behind.

There’s a lot of FUD and misinformation both about Musk and Tesla out there by haters, rivals big oil to name but a few. The data though shows that Tesla is not what the haters say it is. The stop sign issue is resolved in V12. There’s not much more I can say about that.

Hades"

Haven't read through the entire thread but I agree with this. People look at one or two videos that mJe headlines about Teslas because quite frankly they are market leaders here and are facing the might of the traditional auto industry.

I've kept up with the tech and overall I think they are way ahead here but they will constantly get blocked where possible. The EU did a lot to slow progress thanks to a certain country protecting its industry.

Won't stop it though, driverless cars are coming. How soon? Hard to say but it's all exciting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why? ^^^

Do you genuinely think in 50 years we won't look back and be astounded we accepted 100s of thousands of people a year died in car crashes?

Driverless cars are coming, the same way people who thought horse drawn carts weren't going anywhere, piloted cars will die a death

I've no doubt its will be the norm one day. Just don't believe its around the corner. To many pitfalls and glitches at the moment has shown in the video I posted.Even in the US where the infrastructure is more car friendly. Our roads are miles away. Towns have been doing away with car space and we have many more other road users randomly crossing our paths.

Am all for new technology, have a fully electric car I bought 4 years ago before the public hullabaloo started.

Just think self drive are a while away. But agree they will make roads safer, eventually. "

AI is now the normal in so many aspects of life. Why would it suddenly hit a massive pause with cars ?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"Why? ^^^

Do you genuinely think in 50 years we won't look back and be astounded we accepted 100s of thousands of people a year died in car crashes?

Driverless cars are coming, the same way people who thought horse drawn carts weren't going anywhere, piloted cars will die a death

I've no doubt its will be the norm one day. Just don't believe its around the corner. To many pitfalls and glitches at the moment has shown in the video I posted.Even in the US where the infrastructure is more car friendly. Our roads are miles away. Towns have been doing away with car space and we have many more other road users randomly crossing our paths.

Am all for new technology, have a fully electric car I bought 4 years ago before the public hullabaloo started.

Just think self drive are a while away. But agree they will make roads safer, eventually.

AI is now the normal in so many aspects of life. Why would it suddenly hit a massive pause with cars ?"

A lot of the AI that's normal in our lives isn't quite as intelligent as they like to make it out to be. Granted, a lot of it is less life/death than cars, but the AI at the self serve checkouts is awful. No, there's no "unexpected item" in my bagging area, you just can't detect the sodding birthday card that I just scanned and placed IN the bagging area!! And ChatGPT really isn't anywhere near as exciting as everyone makes it out to be. For the average student who is trying to avoid doing any work and who doesn't know what the right output looks like, it mainly generates generic/superficial guff that doesn't even get half marks.

Hopefully self driving cars will be better at driving than ChatGPT is at writing laboratory reports

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By *aretobareCouple
over a year ago

Central Portugal


"We have a Tesla and must admit that after experiencing the simplicity, vastly reduced fuel costs (Ours runs off our solar 90% of the time), reliability and ease to drive they do make ICE cars look so backwards. The fact it has far more features now than when we bought it is also a bonus. We still don't trust the autopilot more due to the width of the cars and the narrowness of Portuguese roads.

Our plan is to do exactly this, solar panels, batteries and an electric car, more than likely a Tesla, because of they’re enormous technological advances of the rest of the market.

Have you worked out how much each mile costs? I have heard quotes of 3/4p per mile.

Afraid we are in KM over here and as we have quite a few factors that confuse the issue - like euros, the cost of our solar system (2x the car), beautiful and empty roads and no speed cameras in our area it does depend how you drive. We work out at about 1 or 2 cents a km but not when we are going fast! You guys will have to come and see.

Hades

"

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By *ames-77Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

End of the day the whole point of this is right now you can get in your diesel petrol car drive wherever you want whenever you want .. draw money out of the cash machine and your away .. when it's all digital and electronic they'll decide when you can drive your car and when you can use your electric card .. that's where we're heading

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By *aretobareCouple
over a year ago

Central Portugal


"End of the day the whole point of this is right now you can get in your diesel petrol car drive wherever you want whenever you want .. draw money out of the cash machine and your away .. when it's all digital and electronic they'll decide when you can drive your car and when you can use your electric card .. that's where we're heading "

You can plug your car in wherever you want - a lot more accessible than a volatile fuel dump and we all saw how easy that was during the fuel shortages. So they are going to trace every car that is plugged in are they? The government can't even organise a piss up - I think that too much time on your hands and a conspiracy theory attitude does make one look a little odd.

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By *ames-77Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"End of the day the whole point of this is right now you can get in your diesel petrol car drive wherever you want whenever you want .. draw money out of the cash machine and your away .. when it's all digital and electronic they'll decide when you can drive your car and when you can use your electric card .. that's where we're heading

You can plug your car in wherever you want - a lot more accessible than a volatile fuel dump and we all saw how easy that was during the fuel shortages. So they are going to trace every car that is plugged in are they? The government can't even organise a piss up - I think that too much time on your hands and a conspiracy theory attitude does make one look a little odd."

Think you missed the point .. electric cars can be shut down and disabled if there was to be a repeat of the lock downs

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By *ixieAndHerKing OP   Couple
over a year ago

Debauchery


"We have a Tesla and must admit that after experiencing the simplicity, vastly reduced fuel costs (Ours runs off our solar 90% of the time), reliability and ease to drive they do make ICE cars look so backwards. The fact it has far more features now than when we bought it is also a bonus. We still don't trust the autopilot more due to the width of the cars and the narrowness of Portuguese roads.

Our plan is to do exactly this, solar panels, batteries and an electric car, more than likely a Tesla, because of they’re enormous technological advances of the rest of the market.

Have you worked out how much each mile costs? I have heard quotes of 3/4p per mile.

Afraid we are in KM over here and as we have quite a few factors that confuse the issue - like euros, the cost of our solar system (2x the car), beautiful and empty roads and no speed cameras in our area it does depend how you drive. We work out at about 1 or 2 cents a km but not when we are going fast! You guys will have to come and see.

"

That’s not a bad fuel cost! We are planning on campervaning at some point so we will have to look you up. It sounds like a beautiful place to live and a great life you have there. It’s minus 3 here right now, so we need need some warm weather in our life

Hades

x

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By *hillenCouple
over a year ago

Borehamwood

An unlikely scenario.

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By *ittlebirdWoman
over a year ago

The Big Smoke

Unless a self drive car wakes me up Wallace and Gromit style and takes me to work to the door tbh I’m not bothered. I was promised proper hover boards by the mid 80s and I’m still waiting

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