FabSwingers.com forum: The British Museum

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So during my weekend in London, I decided to visit the British Museum for the first time.

I have to say that it was absolutely awe-inspiring to see the breadth of human history under one roof and that you can literally spend hours in just one exhibit.

However, I couldn't help but have a slightly uneasy feeling about whether these artifacts should be confined to one place when they once belonged to a completely different culture.

I'm interested to gather people's thoughts and see what you think.

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By *ittlebirdWoman
over a year ago

The Big Smoke

Did they look pretty where they were though OP?

It’s an interesting question but I think it will probably be debated a lot more years yet. And it’s not confined to Britain either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you talking about the stuff we have pillaged over the years, or artificacts that have been loaned to us?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Did they look pretty where they were though OP?

It’s an interesting question but I think it will probably be debated a lot more years yet. And it’s not confined to Britain either

They did to be fair, some of the Greek and Egyptian sculptures looked amazing!

That's very true, I guess I just wanted people's own opinions rather that seeing what should happen with the artifacts there

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Are you talking about the stuff we have pillaged over the years, or artificacts that have been loaned to us? "

Mostly the former I suppose

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By *cnugatugMan
over a year ago

Chatham

I'm going to see the new Patagotitan dinosaur in January it looks incredible ment to be the world's largest Dinosaur ever

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You were in awe op.

Other people will want to feel that awe.

I wanna be awed.

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By *udandBryanCouple
over a year ago

Boston

Before we started feeling guilty about artefacts our ancestors may - our may not - have taken from other countries, remember how many other cultures/countries have forcibly taken countless treasures from Britain.

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

Decolonisation of museums and collections is a really big thing in the industry at the moment, globally. But England has a particularly dark history to deal with, and it’s most evident at the British Museum - those Elgin Marbles didn’t steal themselves, y’know?

But there’s two sides to the argument. And part of that is the duty of care - and ability to care. If you take the wider view that great antiquities belong to the whole world, or don’t truly ‘belong’ to anyone … then maybe it’s worth asking who’s best equipped to look after them, or to share them best with the public?

If you start thinking that way, it’s easy to argue that the British Museum is a pretty good place to show them off.

I’m not coming down on either side of the discussion. Just saying it’s an interesting chat.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Decolonisation of museums and collections is a really big thing in the industry at the moment, globally. But England has a particularly dark history to deal with, and it’s most evident at the British Museum - those Elgin Marbles didn’t steal themselves, y’know?

If you start thinking that way, it’s easy to argue that the British Museum is a pretty good place to show them off.

I’m not coming down on either side of the discussion. Just saying it’s an interesting chat."

This is what leads to sectarianism.

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By *ulfilthmentMan
over a year ago

Just around the corner

"So during my weekend in London, I decided to visit the British Museum for the first time.

I have to say that it was absolutely awe-inspiring to see the breadth of human history under one roof and that you can literally spend hours in just one exhibit.

However, I couldn't help but have a slightly uneasy feeling about whether these artifacts should be confined to one place when they once belonged to a completely different culture.

I'm interested to gather people's thoughts and see what you think."

Setting aside the relatively small number of objects with a dodgy provenance, the alternative would be to visit every country on the planet to see the same breadth of material. The same applies to every national collection so…

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By *batMan
over a year ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

"Before we started feeling guilty about artefacts our ancestors may - our may not - have taken from other countries, remember how many other cultures/countries have forcibly taken countless treasures from Britain."

Read the captions at the museum. Many have definitely been taken from other countries!

I don't think it's a particularly good argument to say "it's happened to us, too."

Gbat

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

"This is what leads to sectarianism."

I have absolutely no idea how you’ve made the leap from decolonisation (or not) of museums to sectarianism.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

I didn't steal it. I didn't find it. I didn't play any part in the relocation of it.

I feel zero guilt for what somebody many years ago did.

In the great lyrical words of a very wise man "it wasn't me".

People took stuff, people put it on show to be awed at. That in and of itself is a part of history, something that has happened many times over many centuries.

I don't really have a point, nor do I really care that the stuff was taken, somebody was eventually going to do it in some form either way.

Humans do shit things regardless of point of origin.

Now I get to look at it all pretty and kept in pristine condition. I can sleep at night knowing that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is what leads to sectarianism.

I have absolutely no idea how you’ve made the leap from decolonisation (or not) of museums to sectarianism."

choosing between the bloody dark history of Britain, or the colonies.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

No guilt back home where I am from the museums are the same. Most cultures nick shiny things.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think all museums are the same in terms of feeling uneasy about all the things that don't belong to us

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

choosing between the bloody dark history of Britain, or the colonies."

And what if you don’t have to make the choice?

What if the most thoughtful solution is to just make sure things are displayed with honest context, that explains the stories of how they came to be where they are?

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

choosing between the bloody dark history of Britain, or the colonies.

And what if you don’t have to make the choice?

What if the most thoughtful solution is to just make sure things are displayed with honest context, that explains the stories of how they came to be where they are?"

The actual history belongs to both ‘sides’ anyway.

What we have the power to change, right now, is how it’s told.

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By *illy IdolMan
over a year ago

Midlands

choosing between the bloody dark history of Britain, or the colonies.

And what if you don’t have to make the choice?

What if the most thoughtful solution is to just make sure things are displayed with honest context, that explains the stories of how they came to be where they are?"

Learn from history, don't erase it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

choosing between the bloody dark history of Britain, or the colonies.

And what if you don’t have to make the choice?

What if the most thoughtful solution is to just make sure things are displayed with honest context, that explains the stories of how they came to be where they are?"

If I were to seriously answer the question and not just joke, it'd be based on the conservation efforts of where the piece is and where it would go. Prosperity matters than ownership. We've sent back stuff historically that's been damaged, or destroyed entirely. It'd be a shame to fuck it up just to pacify some people.

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By *batMan
over a year ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

"Learn from history, don't erase it "

But choose your heroes accordingly.

Gbat

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

"It'd be a shame to fuck it up just to pacify some people."

Now *there’s* something we can probably all agree on.

The awkward thing being that we (the British Museum in this example) are making money from displaying stuff. And someone else believes they have rights to that stuff. So there’s bad feeling.

So maybe profit sharing would help? Assuming there *is* any profit. Museums are damn expensive to run.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It'd be a shame to fuck it up just to pacify some people.

Now *there’s* something we can probably all agree on.

The awkward thing being that we (the British Museum in this example) are making money from displaying stuff. And someone else believes they have rights to that stuff. So there’s bad feeling.

So maybe profit sharing would help? Assuming there *is* any profit. Museums are damn expensive to run."

So maybe not profit sharing, but the BM does do a lot of work overseas with training and consultancy to help elevate other conservation efforts. It's also funded by BP which makes it somewhat controversial, but at least some people directly benefit.

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By *ou only live onceMan
over a year ago

London

I'm not not going to get into the ethics (I know exactly what you mean), but what a beautiful space the British Museum is.

If you want a trivia fact, that central courtyard is the largest covered public square in Europe. I could sit there for ages (outside school holidays!).

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By *ou only live onceMan
over a year ago

London

Oh, and head to the V&A next time, Joe. Equally awe inspiring/beautiful!

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

"It's also funded by BP which makes it somewhat controversial …"

Yeah, that’s a whole separate can of worms probably best left closed for tonight. Might as well use some of that obscene profit to do good things, versus how immoral it is to launder their dirty money into positive brand associations …

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

"Oh, and head to the V&A next time, Joe. Equally awe inspiring/beautiful!"

Seconded!

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By *ichaelsmyMan
over a year ago

douglas

if they were together then you went to see them.

would you have done so if you had to go to several places

would they have had the same impact on you that way

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