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"The honey-trap thread has made me think about affairs and whether they can ever be considered relationships. Thoughts please." It depends by whose perspective. The two people involved in the affair may well consider it a relationship - chances are they are right. The person who is unaware of the relationship between his/her partner with another person would probably not refer to it as a relationship but as distasteful cheating. To me a relationship is the interaction between two people which is distinct from interactions these people have with other parties. There has to be something different, unique and involving a degree of emotional involvement from both sides. | |||
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"Nope. If they can cheat to be in a "relationship" with you, who is to say they will not cheat on you? Doubt and mistrust will always be the masters/mistresses." Even if you don't have jealousy and mistrust? | |||
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"The honey-trap thread has made me think about affairs and whether they can ever be considered relationships. Thoughts please. It depends by whose perspective. The two people involved in the affair may well consider it a relationship - chances are they are right. The person who is unaware of the relationship between his/her partner with another person would probably not refer to it as a relationship but as distasteful cheating. To me a relationship is the interaction between two people which is distinct from interactions these people have with other parties. There has to be something different, unique and involving a degree of emotional involvement from both sides." I understand that but would it qualify, for want of a better word, as a relationship to anyone outside of the intimacy of those two? | |||
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"Nope. If they can cheat to be in a "relationship" with you, who is to say they will not cheat on you? Doubt and mistrust will always be the masters/mistresses." We met at work and had an affair, we have been together for 7 years and married for 3 now. Total trust for each other and know exactly what we are doing and who with as we tell each other before hand, No jelousy, being open and honest is the way forwards for us. Some people accept that and others don't, its up to them but we are happy and trusting of each other!! | |||
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"The honey-trap thread has made me think about affairs and whether they can ever be considered relationships. Thoughts please. It depends by whose perspective. The two people involved in the affair may well consider it a relationship - chances are they are right. The person who is unaware of the relationship between his/her partner with another person would probably not refer to it as a relationship but as distasteful cheating. To me a relationship is the interaction between two people which is distinct from interactions these people have with other parties. There has to be something different, unique and involving a degree of emotional involvement from both sides. I understand that but would it qualify, for want of a better word, as a relationship to anyone outside of the intimacy of those two?" Yes, for example I understand that in relationship counselling the "affair" is being treated as a relationship outside the couple relationship if, and only if one or both of the couple describe it as such. | |||
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"The honey-trap thread has made me think about affairs and whether they can ever be considered relationships. Thoughts please. It depends by whose perspective. The two people involved in the affair may well consider it a relationship - chances are they are right. The person who is unaware of the relationship between his/her partner with another person would probably not refer to it as a relationship but as distasteful cheating. To me a relationship is the interaction between two people which is distinct from interactions these people have with other parties. There has to be something different, unique and involving a degree of emotional involvement from both sides. I understand that but would it qualify, for want of a better word, as a relationship to anyone outside of the intimacy of those two? Yes, for example I understand that in relationship counselling the "affair" is being treated as a relationship outside the couple relationship if, and only if one or both of the couple describe it as such." That's interesting. Gives me more food for thought... another question may follow. | |||
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"Some people have affairs for years a man taking a mistress used to be the norm. I used to joke and say id love to be the mistress of some jet setter and fly round the world with him as his pa" Yes indeed. I know of several affairs that have lasted for more than 10 years. | |||
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"It largely depends on honesty,for me relationship does not mean ownership,why should i expect my partner to abide by archaic social conventions of the word relationship. However if you are both honest from the start you "can have your cake and eat it",but it has to be with the consent of all parties involved imho. Incidentally no archaic belief systems were damaged in the writing of this post,there is room in the world for all concepts and opinions .;-)" Is there any point in cake if it not eaten? I think there is a little mismatch when the person having an affair holds an archaic belief that it's only acceptable for them to play away. | |||
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"Nope. If they can cheat to be in a "relationship" with you, who is to say they will not cheat on you? Doubt and mistrust will always be the masters/mistresses." I was going to agree with that then thought that most people cheating were faithful before so it didn't follow through. We have friends who think swinging is being unfaithful and its made us loo more psychophysically on the whole relationship thing and came to the conclusion some people are not meant to be together and some were. | |||
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"The honey-trap thread has made me think about affairs and whether they can ever be considered relationships. Thoughts please. It depends by whose perspective. The two people involved in the affair may well consider it a relationship - chances are they are right. The person who is unaware of the relationship between his/her partner with another person would probably not refer to it as a relationship but as distasteful cheating. To me a relationship is the interaction between two people which is distinct from interactions these people have with other parties. There has to be something different, unique and involving a degree of emotional involvement from both sides."  | |||
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"It largely depends on honesty,for me relationship does not mean ownership,why should i expect my partner to abide by archaic social conventions of the word relationship. However if you are both honest from the start you "can have your cake and eat it",but it has to be with the consent of all parties involved imho. Incidentally no archaic belief systems were damaged in the writing of this post,there is room in the world for all concepts and opinions .;-) Is there any point in cake if it not eaten? I think there is a little mismatch when the person having an affair holds an archaic belief that it's only acceptable for them to play away." well then all parties potential are not in agreement and that would be cheating .plain and simple ,the person not in agreement would have to ask some searching questions about the relationship and yes your right about the cake .  but you need that agreement before taking the first bite. | |||
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"It largely depends on honesty,for me relationship does not mean ownership,why should i expect my partner to abide by archaic social conventions of the word relationship. However if you are both honest from the start you "can have your cake and eat it",but it has to be with the consent of all parties involved imho. Incidentally no archaic belief systems were damaged in the writing of this post,there is room in the world for all concepts and opinions .;-) Is there any point in cake if it not eaten? I think there is a little mismatch when the person having an affair holds an archaic belief that it's only acceptable for them to play away. well then all parties potential are not in agreement and that would be cheating .plain and simple ,the person not in agreement would have to ask some searching questions about the relationship and yes your right about the cake . but you need that agreement before taking the first bite. "Yes, is it community cake or personal cake. | |||
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"Relationships are defined by the people in it. And their belief systems, their narratives, role models etc. Having an affair, cheating or not cheating, details of what constitues an affair are part of the meaning the cople give to their relationship and it varies from one couple to the next (fortunately). Some people feel cheated when their partner is having a text affair (only in contact via text), a cyber affair (only contact through email, MSN etc) - other people define affairs much wider. Either way, an affair is an affair when the people involved with the affair believe it is an affair." That leads me to a) if one party believes it is and the other doesn't?; b) the single person in the adulterous relationship and the cheated on partner but not the adulterer?; c) neither of those in the affair but the rest of society? | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? " An affair to me is a relationship without their partner's consent. | |||
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"My ex is engaged and living with the slag now so I guess yes is the answer. " Why is the person your ex with a slag? I can understand you are hurt. | |||
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"Yes, but it has to be BOTH people. I only know a couple of people who've had affairs and on both occassions it's gone wrong because one half thought there was more to it than just an affair." I have seen that too. | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? An affair to me is a relationship without their partner's consent. " So twice you have said it's a relationship but one based on deceit. | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? " I don't think it's about sex. I keep saying it but I think you can be faithful and not monogamous. | |||
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"It largely depends on honesty,for me relationship does not mean ownership,why should i expect my partner to abide by archaic social conventions of the word relationship. However if you are both honest from the start you "can have your cake and eat it",but it has to be with the consent of all parties involved imho. Incidentally no archaic belief systems were damaged in the writing of this post,there is room in the world for all concepts and opinions .;-) Is there any point in cake if it not eaten? I think there is a little mismatch when the person having an affair holds an archaic belief that it's only acceptable for them to play away. well then all parties potential are not in agreement and that would be cheating .plain and simple ,the person not in agreement would have to ask some searching questions about the relationship and yes your right about the cake . but you need that agreement before taking the first bite.
Yes, is it community cake or personal cake."Surely it is what all parties say it is ,provided they all agree with the concept before hand | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? I don't think it's about sex. I keep saying it but I think you can be faithful and not monogamous." | |||
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"Relationships are defined by the people in it. And their belief systems, their narratives, role models etc. Having an affair, cheating or not cheating, details of what constitues an affair are part of the meaning the cople give to their relationship and it varies from one couple to the next (fortunately). Some people feel cheated when their partner is having a text affair (only in contact via text), a cyber affair (only contact through email, MSN etc) - other people define affairs much wider. Either way, an affair is an affair when the people involved with the affair believe it is an affair. That leads me to a) if one party believes it is and the other doesn't?; b) the single person in the adulterous relationship and the cheated on partner but not the adulterer?; c) neither of those in the affair but the rest of society?" In MY world, an affair is a concept that exists in the mind of those who want to see it as an affair, (thus it would also be a relationship for them). For me it is largely irrelevant what other people, my family, my neighbours, the local MP or even the Vicar think. And yes, I can totally see why the people forming the affair triangle have different and conflicting opinions on what it is. So when the three people have a different stance and consequently a different word for the situation I guess that is a logical consequence of having a different view? | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? I don't think it's about sex. I keep saying it but I think you can be faithful and not monogamous." Absolutely - we are on the same hymen sheet | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? I don't think it's about sex. I keep saying it but I think you can be faithful and not monogamous. Absolutely - we are on the same hymen sheet "Have you still got one then?  | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? I don't think it's about sex. I keep saying it but I think you can be faithful and not monogamous. Absolutely - we are on the same hymen sheet
Have you still got one then? "Well if I were a good catholic girl I might try the one on immaculate stuff etc and hey, the current pope is just about on his way out at 8 pm so I could try flying under the radar...;-) | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? I don't think it's about sex. I keep saying it but I think you can be faithful and not monogamous. Absolutely - we are on the same hymen sheet
Have you still got one then?
Well if I were a good catholic girl I might try the one on immaculate stuff etc and hey, the current pope is just about on his way out at 8 pm so I could try flying under the radar...;-) "There I was thinking they are physical and not just metaphorical. | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? " Its interesting that you base the concept of an affair on physical aspects. Emotions are a form of intimacy too, and they were the basis of why I had one. I've judged others on the past but will never judge anyone again until I've spent a few days in their shoes | |||
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"Relationships are defined by the people in it. And their belief systems, their narratives, role models etc. Having an affair, cheating or not cheating, details of what constitues an affair are part of the meaning the cople give to their relationship and it varies from one couple to the next (fortunately). Some people feel cheated when their partner is having a text affair (only in contact via text), a cyber affair (only contact through email, MSN etc) - other people define affairs much wider. Either way, an affair is an affair when the people involved with the affair believe it is an affair." | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? Its interesting that you base the concept of an affair on physical aspects. Emotions are a form of intimacy too, and they were the basis of why I had one. I've judged others on the past but will never judge anyone again until I've spent a few days in their shoes " I dont personally draw the line anywhere really - on the contrary I am saying the lines are imaginary and only real for the three people involved. I would not be in the situation for the simple reason that I have an open relationship with my OH - and I totally get what you are saying about the emotional context | |||
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"I would like to ask people where does an affair start? Is it a kiss, a BJ, full blown sex? Or is ist just texting with sexual content? Or is it telephone sex? Or maybe just thinking about having sex with that person? Or is sex maybe not that important in the topic of infidelity? Its interesting that you base the concept of an affair on physical aspects. Emotions are a form of intimacy too, and they were the basis of why I had one. I've judged others on the past but will never judge anyone again until I've spent a few days in their shoes " I don't think anyone actually has an affair just for the physical. They might think that is what they are engaging with with men of a certain age I think it is often adoration they seek. Women (and) men want to feel desirable again, even if they don't then move on to having sex. | |||
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" I don't think anyone actually has an affair just for the physical. They might think that is what they are engaging with with men of a certain age I think it is often adoration they seek. Women (and) men want to feel desirable again, even if they don't then move on to having sex." I quite agree - it is rarely about just the physical... think for a moment for example of the concept of MILF... and that is just one example. | |||
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" I don't think anyone actually has an affair just for the physical. They might think that is what they are engaging with with men of a certain age I think it is often adoration they seek. Women (and) men want to feel desirable again, even if they don't then move on to having sex.I quite agree - it is rarely about just the physical... think for a moment for example of the concept of MILF... and that is just one example. " I don't think of one-off, spur of the moment, sex with someone as an affair. I do think that even that probably has some interal driver that is not just about the physical. | |||
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" I don't think anyone actually has an affair just for the physical. They might think that is what they are engaging with with men of a certain age I think it is often adoration they seek. Women (and) men want to feel desirable again, even if they don't then move on to having sex.I quite agree - it is rarely about just the physical... think for a moment for example of the concept of MILF... and that is just one example. I don't think of one-off, spur of the moment, sex with someone as an affair. I do think that even that probably has some interal driver that is not just about the physical." You re right, of course... it is not. I did not explain myself very well.. I was trying to say just that it is often about a transference onto the other person. | |||
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"... In MY world, an affair is a concept that exists in the mind of those who want to see it as an affair, (thus it would also be a relationship for them). For me it is largely irrelevant what other people, my family, my neighbours, the local MP or even the Vicar think. And yes, I can totally see why the people forming the affair triangle have different and conflicting opinions on what it is. So when the three people have a different stance and consequently a different word for the situation I guess that is a logical consequence of having a different view?" I agree with that. To me, the definition of cheating is whatever the person being cheated on sees it as.... as long as their partner knows that definition. Sexting someone they have never met can be cheating. But on the flip side, a couple may be swingers and they have sex with multiple partners in separate venues- the one 'cheat' is when the partner meets someone without the other's knowledge. (As an example) It depends on what the couple have agreed is ok and not ok. Their own boundaries. As for can an affair be a relationship, I think so yes. Although one person may see it as a relationship and the other may see it as just sex. | |||
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"... In MY world, an affair is a concept that exists in the mind of those who want to see it as an affair, (thus it would also be a relationship for them). For me it is largely irrelevant what other people, my family, my neighbours, the local MP or even the Vicar think. And yes, I can totally see why the people forming the affair triangle have different and conflicting opinions on what it is. So when the three people have a different stance and consequently a different word for the situation I guess that is a logical consequence of having a different view? I agree with that. To me, the definition of cheating is whatever the person being cheated on sees it as.... as long as their partner knows that definition. Sexting someone they have never met can be cheating. But on the flip side, a couple may be swingers and they have sex with multiple partners in separate venues- the one 'cheat' is when the partner meets someone without the other's knowledge. (As an example) It depends on what the couple have agreed is ok and not ok. Their own boundaries. As for can an affair be a relationship, I think so yes. Although one person may see it as a relationship and the other may see it as just sex. " I think this is where I am at with my thoughts on this. | |||
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