FabSwingers.com forum: I’m doing

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

A bit of thinking.

Feel free to wander past my musings, especially if it’s triggering

So you know how it’s widely agreed that if a person finds themselves in a very uncomfortable/stressful/dangerous situation they will have one of three baseline biological responses. These are fight, flight or freeze.

I personally am a freeze person which is annoying because I’m fully capable of fighting and would usually win quite easily.

Anyway, I digress.

Let’s say a person who happened to be in your company for whatever reason, whether it be a group fab social, a group non fab social or a family gathering (other examples are available, use your own brains

If you really didn’t like that person for whatever reasons (the reasons are irrelevant because we’re allowed to dislike whoever for whatever reason) and that person came barrelling in for a hug/cheek kiss or other usually socially acceptable act, what would you do?

You really DO NOT want to be physically engaging with this person. Social niceties are not enough to make you take one for the team.

What do YOU do?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’d have manoeuvred myself away from said person early on to ensure we didn’t interact.

In general, people I dislike….know it so they avoid me like a dose anyway.

Result.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’d have manoeuvred myself away from said person early on to ensure we didn’t interact.

In general, people I dislike….know it so they avoid me like a dose anyway.

Result. "

Let’s say you’d already completed some very obvious evasive manoeuvres and said person made it their mission to hug you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Push them away simples

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By *rimson_RoseWoman
over a year ago

Tamworth

Side step or manhandle them off me. I’m a definite fight or flight not freeze

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Push them away simples "

Do you think you’re able to say that because you’re a man and therefore less likely to face any consequences?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Side step or manhandle them off me. I’m a definite fight or flight not freeze

You’re good

I need to channel my inner CR

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/11/23 09:01:50]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’d have manoeuvred myself away from said person early on to ensure we didn’t interact.

In general, people I dislike….know it so they avoid me like a dose anyway.

Result.

Let’s say you’d already completed some very obvious evasive manoeuvres and said person made it their mission to hug you? "

I’m brutal, I’d be telling them don’t come near me.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’d have manoeuvred myself away from said person early on to ensure we didn’t interact.

In general, people I dislike….know it so they avoid me like a dose anyway.

Result.

Let’s say you’d already completed some very obvious evasive manoeuvres and said person made it their mission to hug you?

I’m brutal, I’d be telling them don’t come near me. "

So same question as to above, do you think you could say that because as a man you’re not likely to have any problems?

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By *illy IdolMan
over a year ago

Midlands

I'd probably just take one for the team and hug you

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'd probably just take one for the team and hug you"

But what if you REALLY didn’t like me? And REALLY didn’t want to?

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By *illy IdolMan
over a year ago

Midlands

"I'd probably just take one for the team and hug you

But what if you REALLY didn’t like me? And REALLY didn’t want to?"

I'd probably burp in your ear

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’d have manoeuvred myself away from said person early on to ensure we didn’t interact.

In general, people I dislike….know it so they avoid me like a dose anyway.

Result.

Let’s say you’d already completed some very obvious evasive manoeuvres and said person made it their mission to hug you?

I’m brutal, I’d be telling them don’t come near me.

So same question as to above, do you think you could say that because as a man you’re not likely to have any problems?"

I honestly don’t know because I don’t think about stuff like that. I tend to do what needs doing, or say what needs saying in those situations.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

Honestly, I don't know. Never been in a situation like that before. Majority of people know not to hug me anyway (only a few people get that privilege). I like to think fight or flight, but depending on the situation I could see me just doing it to avoid any kind of aftermath which is more effort I can't be bothered to deal with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly, if they were already coming in for a hug/kiss on the cheek I’d feel too awkward to swerve it so I’d probably just accept it, then get myself out of there as quick as possible.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"A bit of thinking.

Feel free to wander past my musings, especially if it’s triggering

I personally am a freeze person which is annoying because I’m fully capable of fighting and would usually win quite easily.

Anyway, I digress.

You really DO NOT want to be physically engaging with this person. Social niceties are not enough to make you take one for the team.

What do YOU do?"

Disengage, shake hands, whatever you do feel comfortable with.

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By *G TMan
over a year ago

birmingham

Something like this happened to me not long ago, a woman kissed me and I really wasn’t interested. I think cause alcohol was involved I allowed it but I wasn’t gonna accept seconds after that. Depends on situation I guess

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By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

Hands up to put separation between us and a “no”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Freeze is your minds inability to determine fight or flight options. So you might look at ways you respond to stress and develop reactive behaviours which would help.

In this scenario i tend to go for (or relapse into) and kind of loose contact, enough not to escalate their reaction, not so much I can’t step back into free space.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I'd probably just take one for the team and hug you

But what if you REALLY didn’t like me? And REALLY didn’t want to?"

Hand you off and say... "sorry. Don't want to do that so please stop trying"... Hypothetical as far as I'm aware there is nobody that makes me feel that way.. But I guess this is similar to a game of scruples.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

The forth one is fawn, being extra nice as a strategy to protect yourself.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’d have manoeuvred myself away from said person early on to ensure we didn’t interact.

In general, people I dislike….know it so they avoid me like a dose anyway.

Result.

Let’s say you’d already completed some very obvious evasive manoeuvres and said person made it their mission to hug you?

I’m brutal, I’d be telling them don’t come near me.

So same question as to above, do you think you could say that because as a man you’re not likely to have any problems?

I honestly don’t know because I don’t think about stuff like that. I tend to do what needs doing, or say what needs saying in those situations. "

And have you always been confident in those situations?

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By *ilsaGeorgeCouple
over a year ago

kent

Most of us are constrained by a degree of social conditioning. Few people relish making a scene, and often we will allow ourselves to feel awkward and creeped out in order to preserve the harmony of a social gathering. The kind of dislike you’re describing is more visceral, more serious. If you see the person coming at you, a raised hand, palm toward their chest, a firm ‘stop!’, maintain eye contact. And then walk away. I’ve see Ailsa do it, and she’s tiny. If your dislike is that strong, it will carry through your voice, and live in your eyes, and the other person will get the message. Unless they are d*unk, in which case a slap or a kick to the balls is acceptable. Xx

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By *oofy321Man
over a year ago

moon base zero

Is the person male or female?

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By *ilthycoupleabzCouple
over a year ago

Aberdeen

Thats a tough one. So, I assume that in this case, I dont have anyone watching out to interject and block said person from me (which is my usual go to, friend etc will block access to me).

If I truly couldn't stand them, I'd not return the embrace and quietly ask they please don't touch me again and then walk away.

MrsAbz

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Honestly, I don't know. Never been in a situation like that before. Majority of people know not to hug me anyway (only a few people get that privilege). I like to think fight or flight, but depending on the situation I could see me just doing it to avoid any kind of aftermath which is more effort I can't be bothered to deal with."

Aha! So you put your wishes second for the sake of social niceties?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Honestly, if they were already coming in for a hug/kiss on the cheek I’d feel too awkward to swerve it so I’d probably just accept it, then get myself out of there as quick as possible. "

What would stop you doing some of the above suggestions and going for a high 5 or similar?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"A bit of thinking.

Feel free to wander past my musings, especially if it’s triggering

I personally am a freeze person which is annoying because I’m fully capable of fighting and would usually win quite easily.

Anyway, I digress.

You really DO NOT want to be physically engaging with this person. Social niceties are not enough to make you take one for the team.

What do YOU do?

Disengage, shake hands, whatever you do feel comfortable with. "

That’s a good idea actually, offering a hand to shake instead

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Something like this happened to me not long ago, a woman kissed me and I really wasn’t interested. I think cause alcohol was involved I allowed it but I wasn’t gonna accept seconds after that. Depends on situation I guess "

What would you have done if you’d been sober do you think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd freeze, Fluffy. I know I'd freeze because every time I've been in a situation I've not been very happy with I have frozen. Including SA. And it's really easy for other people to say "why did you let them"? When they're not you and they don't have your history. And all too easy to feel guilt for freezing when it's not something I can control.

There have been two occasions in recent months where I have frozen and not done or said what I'd have liked to - "fuck off" "go away" or just plain "no". And I am a pretty assertive woman on here. But...biology. I'm not going to feel bad. The other person should feel bad.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Hands up to put separation between us and a “no” "

I keep asking the guys this

is that because you’d not worry that there’d be consequences?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Freeze is your minds inability to determine fight or flight options. So you might look at ways you respond to stress and develop reactive behaviours which would help.

In this scenario i tend to go for (or relapse into) and kind of loose contact, enough not to escalate their reaction, not so much I can’t step back into free space. "

I did not know that about the freeze response! And that’s a good suggestion to look into your own stress response

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'd probably just take one for the team and hug you

But what if you REALLY didn’t like me? And REALLY didn’t want to?

I’m basing it on a real life experience I’ve had and was annoyed at the person for not reading the obvious signs and myself for not managing to stand up for myself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no one wants to come near me to start with so its not a problem

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Honestly, if they were already coming in for a hug/kiss on the cheek I’d feel too awkward to swerve it so I’d probably just accept it, then get myself out of there as quick as possible.

What would stop you doing some of the above suggestions and going for a high 5 or similar?"

Probably being too shy to say no. I mean, it does depend on why I dislike them as well. If it was just a general “I don’t like you” then I’d do the above, if there was an awful reason for it I would absolutely swerve them and ask them what the hell they think they are doing.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The forth one is fawn, being extra nice as a strategy to protect yourself. "

Very true, I didn’t include it as I guessed in this particular scenario the idea of being extra nice wouldn’t have occurred to me

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By *ros40Man
over a year ago

Bedford

Two fingers to the eyes

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Most of us are constrained by a degree of social conditioning. Few people relish making a scene, and often we will allow ourselves to feel awkward and creeped out in order to preserve the harmony of a social gathering. The kind of dislike you’re describing is more visceral, more serious. If you see the person coming at you, a raised hand, palm toward their chest, a firm ‘stop!’, maintain eye contact. And then walk away. I’ve see Ailsa do it, and she’s tiny. If your dislike is that strong, it will carry through your voice, and live in your eyes, and the other person will get the message. Unless they are d*unk, in which case a slap or a kick to the balls is acceptable. Xx"

It absolutely is a visceral reaction but in my case social conditioning definitely takes over and stops me from doing what I should

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Push them away simples

Do you think you’re able to say that because you’re a man and therefore less likely to face any consequences?"

Deffo is that

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By *G TMan
over a year ago

birmingham

What would you have done if you’d been sober do you think?"

I would’ve definitely said no but thanks. It’d be awkward for 5 seconds but people move on

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Is the person male or female?"

In this example the awkward person is female and the potential hugger is male but I’m interested in thoughts all ways round

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Thats a tough one. So, I assume that in this case, I dont have anyone watching out to interject and block said person from me (which is my usual go to, friend etc will block access to me).

If I truly couldn't stand them, I'd not return the embrace and quietly ask they please don't touch me again and then walk away.

MrsAbz "

What if the person then reacted badly? Does the possibility of that happening make you more wary of telling them that?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'd freeze, Fluffy. I know I'd freeze because every time I've been in a situation I've not been very happy with I have frozen. Including SA. And it's really easy for other people to say "why did you let them"? When they're not you and they don't have your history. And all too easy to feel guilt for freezing when it's not something I can control.

Ah Sal

I know exactly where you’re coming from. Maybe me and you should practice being assertive in person!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"no one wants to come near me to start with so its not a problem

Wonko you big sausage

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

Aha! So you put your wishes second for the sake of social niceties?"

Not so much social niceties so to speak, more the head ache of any kind of drama that fllows, not for the sake of saving face or actually making a scene but the effort on my part to have to deal with what comes next.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Honestly, if they were already coming in for a hug/kiss on the cheek I’d feel too awkward to swerve it so I’d probably just accept it, then get myself out of there as quick as possible.

What would stop you doing some of the above suggestions and going for a high 5 or similar?

So shyness/social conditioning/alcohol consumption all seem to be big reasons why we’d feel unable to do anything to remove ourselves?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Push them away simples

Do you think you’re able to say that because you’re a man and therefore less likely to face any consequences?"

Why do you think a man would be less likely to face consequences?

If I used force against a woman in far more likely to face physical consequences from nearby whites knights

And if I really stifle a guy and tell him no, hurt his ego or even physically push him away, I’m far more likely to face physical consequences

Women have a much easier time in this area because it’s very rarely going to become physical

I think anyways, or am I way off there

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Two fingers to the eyes

Really? Like you’d actually do that and to hell with the consequences?

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I'd probably just take one for the team and hug you

But what if you REALLY didn’t like me? And REALLY didn’t want to?

I’m basing it on a real life experience I’ve had and was annoyed at the person for not reading the obvious signs and myself for not managing to stand up for myself

Thing is... You can't know what the other person thinks, or has missed any social cues, so being annoyed at them is a waste of your energy. What did you do that annoyed you? Acquiesce? Maybe a learning also that whatever "avoid me" signals you think you're sending out... May not be being received as you intended? Perhaps a sign around your neck!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I back away at the first sign of it and say no. And I'll follow it with some excuse or truth. Like...I'm sorry I'm not a huggy person, or I'm sorry I don't feel like that. It's like a blurt in a involuntary way, it just comes out. And I then I feel really bloody awkward and want to run away. I might shake it sweat too.

If they apologise I respond by saying 'oh it's fine' which is a total lie but I'm just trying to play it down and get past it. If they try saying I should accept and they aren't doing anything wrong I bite back harshly. Which I think is done out of stress. And then I clearly look like or get told that I'm overreacting. Which is their response to being rejected I guess.

I struggle with being hugged in certain circumstances though, like if I'm in tears for example. Attempting to hug me then is a really bad move, my hands will go up in protest and I'll step away and tell you not to.

So I'm quite used to refusing a hug.

I know exactly why this is as well and it's something I need to work on.

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By *ansoffateMan
over a year ago

Sagittarius A

I can potentially have a freeze response. It depends on her approach.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Push them away simples

Do you think you’re able to say that because you’re a man and therefore less likely to face any consequences?

Why do you think a man would be less likely to face consequences?

If I used force against a woman in far more likely to face physical consequences from nearby whites knights

And if I really stifle a guy and tell him no, hurt his ego or even physically push him away, I’m far more likely to face physical consequences

Women have a much easier time in this area because it’s very rarely going to become physical

I think anyways, or am I way off there"

Yes you are way off there. WAY off. I won’t bore you with statistics and shit but from a woman’s perspective you’ve got physical assault, verbal assault, sexual assault, r4pe and murder to be at risk of. In the politest possible way, your last statement is so far off the mark it’s on the moon

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Aha! So you put your wishes second for the sake of social niceties?

This in my experience is much more of a female reaction. Which leads me to believe you’re either a female or you’re incredibly switched on!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Honestly, if they were already coming in for a hug/kiss on the cheek I’d feel too awkward to swerve it so I’d probably just accept it, then get myself out of there as quick as possible.

What would stop you doing some of the above suggestions and going for a high 5 or similar?

So shyness/social conditioning/alcohol consumption all seem to be big reasons why we’d feel unable to do anything to remove ourselves?"

I guess. Is it really worth causing a huge commotion over a hug when I can just grit my teeth and get it over with kind of thing.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

A social hug, kiss on the cheek, handshake or similar? I'd just do it. Any lingering contact would make me stiffen up and back away.

I'm the type of person who gives off 'go away ' vibes anyway. My friend of over 25 years and I only recently started hugging on meeting and taking our leave of each other. Also when I meet someone for the first time I ask "are we hugging or not?"

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'd probably just take one for the team and hug you

But what if you REALLY didn’t like me? And REALLY didn’t want to?

I’m basing it on a real life experience I’ve had and was annoyed at the person for not reading the obvious signs and myself for not managing to stand up for myself

Yes, the acquiescence is what annoyed me. And actually, maybe a ‘don’t hug me unless I ask you to’ badge isn’t a bad idea!

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

In an unwanted hug/contact situation I’d get vocal. You’re talking about this being in a social situation, so I’d be saying out loud “Please don’t touch me, I don’t want you to.” Or whatever’s appropriate. If they keep trying, get louder. Loud enough to embarrass them in front of everyone else.

Screw the social niceties, they’ve overstepped that already and deserve some consequences. You’re in group company, so use that to your advantage.

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By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"Hands up to put separation between us and a “no”

I keep asking the guys this

is that because you’d not worry that there’d be consequences?"

The consequence I found once was she kept going and shoved her hand down my pants. She was pushed away, I alerted the bar staff and she was removed from the bar but I guess from a female perspective pushing someone away isn’t exactly an option all the time

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Push them away simples

Do you think you’re able to say that because you’re a man and therefore less likely to face any consequences?

Why do you think a man would be less likely to face consequences?

If I used force against a woman in far more likely to face physical consequences from nearby whites knights

And if I really stifle a guy and tell him no, hurt his ego or even physically push him away, I’m far more likely to face physical consequences

Women have a much easier time in this area because it’s very rarely going to become physical

I think anyways, or am I way off there

Seems I am way off, because in a social setting most people are going to protect a woman, and watch a man get beat up.

Statistically men are victims of violent assaults more than woman. So I dunno what statistics your referring too.

I understand women face different dangers, especially when alone with guys, but I don’t think men are free of consequences in social setting, quite the opposite really

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I back away at the first sign of it and say no. And I'll follow it with some excuse or truth. Like...I'm sorry I'm not a huggy person, or I'm sorry I don't feel like that. It's like a blurt in a involuntary way, it just comes out. And I then I feel really bloody awkward and want to run away. I might shake it sweat too.

So I'm quite used to refusing a hug.

I know exactly why this is as well and it's something I need to work on.

Why do you think it’s something you need to work on? Are you happy and safe not being a hugger? If so I’d argue that there’s nothing wrong with that at all!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I can potentially have a freeze response. It depends on her approach."

It’s an awkward one to overcome isn’t it

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By *G TMan
over a year ago

birmingham

Ultimately just saying the word NO is a clear indication of what’s not gonna happen. Any decent bloke/woman will cut their losses and leave you alone. No hardship at all and maybe even apologise

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By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"Hands up to put separation between us and a “no”

I keep asking the guys this

is that because you’d not worry that there’d be consequences?

Then the consequences of that was a few months of male friends saying “you turned her down? Are you mental? Are you gay? Why not just fuck her?”

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Honestly, if they were already coming in for a hug/kiss on the cheek I’d feel too awkward to swerve it so I’d probably just accept it, then get myself out of there as quick as possible.

What would stop you doing some of the above suggestions and going for a high 5 or similar?

So shyness/social conditioning/alcohol consumption all seem to be big reasons why we’d feel unable to do anything to remove ourselves?

I guess. Is it really worth causing a huge commotion over a hug when I can just grit my teeth and get it over with kind of thing. "

Well yeah. I mean pick your battles. All actions have consequences. But if it's something you feel self preservation fight or flight about.? . Not something I've experienced so far.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Push them away simples

Do you think you’re able to say that because you’re a man and therefore less likely to face any consequences?

Why do you think a man would be less likely to face consequences?

If I used force against a woman in far more likely to face physical consequences from nearby whites knights

And if I really stifle a guy and tell him no, hurt his ego or even physically push him away, I’m far more likely to face physical consequences

Women have a much easier time in this area because it’s very rarely going to become physical

I think anyways, or am I way off there

Seems I am way off, because in a social setting most people are going to protect a woman, and watch a man get beat up.

Statistically men are victims of violent assaults more than woman. So I dunno what statistics your referring too.

I understand women face different dangers, especially when alone with guys, but I don’t think men are free of consequences in social setting, quite the opposite really "

Would most people think a woman needed protection from a hug? And yes, men are statistically more likely to suffer a violent attack from another man. The statistics I’m referring to are studies, large studies, that show almost 100% of women will or have at some point been assaulted, whether that’s verbally sexually or physically, by a man. That’s almost all of them. And that’s enough to make it a viable concern

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"A social hug, kiss on the cheek, handshake or similar? I'd just do it. Any lingering contact would make me stiffen up and back away.

See I usually give off ‘go away vibes’ too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But what consequences are there gonna be? If they are obviously being friendly and engaging as they are coming in for a hug or kiss, then it's hardly in a perilous situation where its going to nasty or violent

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"In an unwanted hug/contact situation I’d get vocal. You’re talking about this being in a social situation, so I’d be saying out loud “Please don’t touch me, I don’t want you to.” Or whatever’s appropriate. If they keep trying, get louder. Loud enough to embarrass them in front of everyone else.

Screw the social niceties, they’ve overstepped that already and deserve some consequences. You’re in group company, so use that to your advantage."

What if you just can’t make yourself do that?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Hands up to put separation between us and a “no”

I keep asking the guys this

is that because you’d not worry that there’d be consequences?

See that’s good that you were able to act and that the bar staff acted appropriately

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Ultimately just saying the word NO is a clear indication of what’s not gonna happen. Any decent bloke/woman will cut their losses and leave you alone. No hardship at all and maybe even apologise "

You’d like to think!

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I'd probably just take one for the team and hug you

But what if you REALLY didn’t like me? And REALLY didn’t want to?

I’m basing it on a real life experience I’ve had and was annoyed at the person for not reading the obvious signs and myself for not managing to stand up for myself

Yes, the acquiescence is what annoyed me. And actually, maybe a ‘don’t hug me unless I ask you to’ badge isn’t a bad idea!"

I can feel a brand of merch coming already... Mugs,logo t shirts and caps...all in time for Xmas.

But seriously don't give yourself a hard time... It probably hasn't even registered with anyone else... Its not like you took one for the team... Or was it a "fab hug"? No Regrets...? Make it easy on yourself?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Push them away simples

Do you think you’re able to say that because you’re a man and therefore less likely to face any consequences?

Why do you think a man would be less likely to face consequences?

If I used force against a woman in far more likely to face physical consequences from nearby whites knights

And if I really stifle a guy and tell him no, hurt his ego or even physically push him away, I’m far more likely to face physical consequences

Women have a much easier time in this area because it’s very rarely going to become physical

I think anyways, or am I way off there

Seems I am way off, because in a social setting most people are going to protect a woman, and watch a man get beat up.

Statistically men are victims of violent assaults more than woman. So I dunno what statistics your referring too.

I understand women face different dangers, especially when alone with guys, but I don’t think men are free of consequences in social setting, quite the opposite really

Maybe I’m just confused about the hypothetical then

Who’s more in danger turning away the advances of the opposite sex? Clearly women, no doubt

But who’s more in danger turning away a social hug/handshake/kiss in a social setting? I think guys are, because we have to deal with the fragile male ego that’s quick to turn physical over even a small misunderstanding (why won’t you shake my hand)

Probably just read the hypothetical wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a guy with an imposing stature, I use physical action as a last resort always.

I would reposition my body, hold out an arm or turn my face to a position which would make it difficult to land a kiss.

But if I were a female I can see how this would be a problem but I also feel females are given more leeway in reacting physically so may be more inclined to be physical.

Really comes down to your appetite for a fight or uncomfortable discussions.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Hands up to put separation between us and a “no”

I keep asking the guys this

is that because you’d not worry that there’d be consequences?

Then the consequences of that was a few months of male friends saying “you turned her down? Are you mental? Are you gay? Why not just fuck her?” "

Toxic masculinity at its best!

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By *ir SupremacyMan
over a year ago

Bolton

Make it obvious I felt uncomfortable with that...and distance myself from them....Last thing I would want to do is embarrass myself in a group.

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By *G TMan
over a year ago

birmingham

"Ultimately just saying the word NO is a clear indication of what’s not gonna happen. Any decent bloke/woman will cut their losses and leave you alone. No hardship at all and maybe even apologise

You’d like to think!"

Like the way I try to express my love for you fluffy and you tell me NO lmao

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"But what consequences are there gonna be? If they are obviously being friendly and engaging as they are coming in for a hug or kiss, then it's hardly in a perilous situation where its going to nasty or violent

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on "

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Honestly, if they were already coming in for a hug/kiss on the cheek I’d feel too awkward to swerve it so I’d probably just accept it, then get myself out of there as quick as possible.

What would stop you doing some of the above suggestions and going for a high 5 or similar?

So shyness/social conditioning/alcohol consumption all seem to be big reasons why we’d feel unable to do anything to remove ourselves?

I guess. Is it really worth causing a huge commotion over a hug when I can just grit my teeth and get it over with kind of thing.

Well yeah. I mean pick your battles. All actions have consequences. But if it's something you feel self preservation fight or flight about.? . Not something I've experienced so far. "

If I felt that strongly about it that my fight or flight kicked in then I’d definitely speak up.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

omg fluffy. it seems like you had a tough time with it all. are you okay, hun? want a hug?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Interestingly we are very open about what physical interaction we find acceptable both in the forum and on our profile and are often roundly criticised, occasionally insulted for making our boundaries clear. I think a lot of people just assume that kissing and hugging will be welcomed by everyone. This always confuses me a little because in the next breath people are encouraged to do just that and often criticised if they don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I might use my cpi training so before the lunge of an unwanted hug I use my moves and scream in the place down

How many times does some slime ball get message. Or if all fails injunction said person.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Push them away simples

Do you think you’re able to say that because you’re a man and therefore less likely to face any consequences?

Why do you think a man would be less likely to face consequences?

If I used force against a woman in far more likely to face physical consequences from nearby whites knights

And if I really stifle a guy and tell him no, hurt his ego or even physically push him away, I’m far more likely to face physical consequences

Women have a much easier time in this area because it’s very rarely going to become physical

I think anyways, or am I way off there

Seems I am way off, because in a social setting most people are going to protect a woman, and watch a man get beat up.

Statistically men are victims of violent assaults more than woman. So I dunno what statistics your referring too.

I understand women face different dangers, especially when alone with guys, but I don’t think men are free of consequences in social setting, quite the opposite really

Maybe I’m just confused about the hypothetical then

Who’s more in danger turning away the advances of the opposite sex? Clearly women, no doubt

Probably just read the hypothetical wrong "

Anyone is in danger of the fragile male ego, that’s my point

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"As a guy with an imposing stature, I use physical action as a last resort always.

I would reposition my body, hold out an arm or turn my face to a position which would make it difficult to land a kiss.

But if I were a female I can see how this would be a problem but I also feel females are given more leeway in reacting physically so may be more inclined to be physical.

Really comes down to your appetite for a fight or uncomfortable discussions. "

That’s interesting that females are given more leeway to react physically. They definitely shouldn’t be

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple
over a year ago

Leeds

In quite blunt so I'd probably just say I don't want to hug you and offer a handshake or something, if they kept trying I'd tell them to fuck off & I've already made it clear.

Mrs

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple
over a year ago

Leeds

I actually had this at work at one point some old bloke kept trying to hug me which was hugely inappropriate I had to in the end shout at him to stop trying to touch me.

Mrs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Push them away simples

Do you think you’re able to say that because you’re a man and therefore less likely to face any consequences?

Why do you think a man would be less likely to face consequences?

If I used force against a woman in far more likely to face physical consequences from nearby whites knights

And if I really stifle a guy and tell him no, hurt his ego or even physically push him away, I’m far more likely to face physical consequences

Women have a much easier time in this area because it’s very rarely going to become physical

I think anyways, or am I way off there

Seems I am way off, because in a social setting most people are going to protect a woman, and watch a man get beat up.

Statistically men are victims of violent assaults more than woman. So I dunno what statistics your referring too.

I understand women face different dangers, especially when alone with guys, but I don’t think men are free of consequences in social setting, quite the opposite really

Maybe I’m just confused about the hypothetical then

Who’s more in danger turning away the advances of the opposite sex? Clearly women, no doubt

Probably just read the hypothetical wrong

Anyone is in danger of the fragile male ego, that’s my point

Absolutely, I just think you only need to go into any town centre in the world to see 100 fights every fri/sat night between guys. Usually caused over some basic social interaction like not shaking hands or looking at someone at the wrong time to understand men definitely aren’t facing less consequences than women in these settings. Very rarely will you see women facing physical consequences, more often than not you seem them dishing out assaults and being protected from consequences by other guys

But then it’s the complete opposite when it’s a one on one situation. I’d have zero fear turning down a woman, but most women would freeze in that moment rejecting a guy.

Just didn’t understand where the men face less consequences part came from, glad it’s been cleared up

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Make it obvious I felt uncomfortable with that...and distance myself from them....Last thing I would want to do is embarrass myself in a group. "

Why is not embarrassing yourself more important than your own comfort?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"omg fluffy. it seems like you had a tough time with it all. are you okay, hun? want a hug?"

Inbox me bae I don’t wanna say on here

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

"You’re talking about this being in a social situation, so I’d be saying out loud “Please don’t touch me, I don’t want you to.” Or whatever’s appropriate. If they keep trying, get louder. Loud enough to embarrass them in front of everyone else."

"What if you just can’t make yourself do that?"

If you can’t bring yourself to say ‘please don’t’ out loud, then you’re not likely to physically stop the person either. So I guess in that case you need backup. A friend with you to help your confidence/assertiveness.

I know the real other option is to just grin and bear it, but I can’t bring myself to advise that. It’s not changing anything and it’s not helping you.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Interestingly we are very open about what physical interaction we find acceptable both in the forum and on our profile and are often roundly criticised, occasionally insulted for making our boundaries clear. I think a lot of people just assume that kissing and hugging will be welcomed by everyone. This always confuses me a little because in the next breath people are encouraged to do just that and often criticised if they don't."

That constant confusion of ‘be polite and hug people’ vs ‘stick to your boundaries’ definitely makes life harder !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group? "

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

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By *imply DeeWoman
over a year ago

Wherever

Good morning Fluffy, and good morning Fab.

Interesting how I was just thinking about this very subject yesterday. Due to my C-PTSD I have found myself to be in a constant freeze mode.

Easy to guess what my response would be and I’m definitely not ok with that.

I have also found that being here, as unbelievably ridiculous as it sounds, helps me to deal with many issues, past trauma related or not.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I might use my cpi training so before the lunge of an unwanted hug I use my moves and scream in the place down

How many times does some slime ball get message. Or if all fails injunction said person.

See that would seem like overkill for most of us

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"In quite blunt so I'd probably just say I don't want to hug you and offer a handshake or something, if they kept trying I'd tell them to fuck off & I've already made it clear.

Mrs "

I need to be like you

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

That constant confusion of ‘be polite and hug people’ vs ‘stick to your boundaries’ definitely makes life harder !"

I find it really odd that its praiseworthy to have certain boundaries in a social situation (and I'm talking specifically about kissing and hugging) but considered unusual to have the same boundary in a sexual situation. Its no wonder people are confused about what's acceptable and what isn't. I really wish we could all say in *any* situation "I don't kiss/hug" (our daughter actually does this) and every one else would just smile and ask "how do you like to be greeted?". Then we would all go about our day happy.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I actually had this at work at one point some old bloke kept trying to hug me which was hugely inappropriate I had to in the end shout at him to stop trying to touch me.

Mrs "

What was his reaction?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I know the real other option is to just grin and bear it, but I can’t bring myself to advise that. It’s not changing anything and it’s not helping you."

Yeah that grin and bear it (like the lie back and think of England) attitude seems so entrenched in polite society doesn’t it? But it just makes things worse

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic "

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

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By *ruceyyMan
over a year ago

London

Just tell them fluffs. Never do anything you don't want to do x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Good morning Fluffy, and good morning Fab.

Interesting how I was just thinking about this very subject yesterday. Due to my C-PTSD I have found myself to be in a constant freeze mode.

Easy to guess what my response would be and I’m definitely not ok with that.

I have also found that being here, as unbelievably ridiculous as it sounds, helps me to deal with many issues, past trauma related or not."

Hey up Dee

Glowup Doll made an interesting suggestion up the top about working on stress responses, I’m definitely going to look into that. And it doesn’t sound ridiculous at all, if it works it works!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?"

99% of people aren't.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

That constant confusion of ‘be polite and hug people’ vs ‘stick to your boundaries’ definitely makes life harder !

That would absolutely be ideal! But then how would it work if there were some people you were happy to hug but not others, and they all happened to be there?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Just tell them fluffs. Never do anything you don't want to do x"

Brucey what if you can’t

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’d have manoeuvred myself away from said person early on to ensure we didn’t interact.

In general, people I dislike….know it so they avoid me like a dose anyway.

Result.

Let’s say you’d already completed some very obvious evasive manoeuvres and said person made it their mission to hug you?

I’m brutal, I’d be telling them don’t come near me.

So same question as to above, do you think you could say that because as a man you’re not likely to have any problems?

I honestly don’t know because I don’t think about stuff like that. I tend to do what needs doing, or say what needs saying in those situations.

And have you always been confident in those situations?"

On The rare occasion it’s happened…..yes.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't. "

But how do you know that that person isn’t that 1%?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

But how do you know that that person isn’t that 1%? "

Are you purposely trolling right now?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

That constant confusion of ‘be polite and hug people’ vs ‘stick to your boundaries’ definitely makes life harder !

That would absolutely be ideal! But then how would it work if there were some people you were happy to hug but not others, and they all happened to be there?"

I recently met a Spanish woman who knew the others in the group well. She kissed and hugged them and shook my hand, I was quite happy with that because I wouldn't want her to feel she needed to be familiar with me and I respect other people. I really wish people would stop being offended because someone doesn't want to be touched by them. This is all on others Fluffy, not you. You have the final say over how you greet people socially*nobody else*.

Our daughter is often laughed at for saying "I don't kiss or hug" time people setting simple boundaries was accepted I say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't. "

1 in 300 has psychosis. It’s just environmental that their behaviour is modified, until the specific stimulus creates a (to them rational) permission. More lunatics about than we think there are.

* spots lunatic refusing to say Grande in Starbucks

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

But how do you know that that person isn’t that 1%?

Are you purposely trolling right now?

No not at all, I just want to know!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

But how do you know that that person isn’t that 1%? "

You don't and here is where the seat belt analogy comes in.

I buckle up every time I get in the car even though statistically I'm unlikely to have an accident every time I drive.

I apply the same logic to my interactions with other people. I take precautions even though statistically I know it's unlikely I need to every time.

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By *ilthycoupleabzCouple
over a year ago

Aberdeen

"Thats a tough one. So, I assume that in this case, I dont have anyone watching out to interject and block said person from me (which is my usual go to, friend etc will block access to me).

If I truly couldn't stand them, I'd not return the embrace and quietly ask they please don't touch me again and then walk away.

MrsAbz

What if the person then reacted badly? Does the possibility of that happening make you more wary of telling them that?"

In a situation where there are others around, I wouldn't be too worried as I know people would step in eg in our local bar, where even if I'd just popped in to say hello to the regulars etc without friends/partner in tow I would feel safe to do that.

On my absolute own, I would panic there is going to be an issue but I don't tend to get a freeze response so no matter what I am going to walk away from them or worst case, fight back.

I always want to run from uncomfortableness so I couldn't freeze even if I wanted to and it was the safest option.

MrsAbz

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By *imply DeeWoman
over a year ago

Wherever

"Good morning Fluffy, and good morning Fab.

Interesting how I was just thinking about this very subject yesterday. Due to my C-PTSD I have found myself to be in a constant freeze mode.

Easy to guess what my response would be and I’m definitely not ok with that.

I have also found that being here, as unbelievably ridiculous as it sounds, helps me to deal with many issues, past trauma related or not.

Hey up Dee

Glowup Doll made an interesting suggestion up the top about working on stress responses, I’m definitely going to look into that. And it doesn’t sound ridiculous at all, if it works it works! "

Great thread btw, Fluffy. Just had a moment to sit down and read all the responses.

I’m amazed at how many people have been in the same position and it’s helping me to understand I am not the one to blame. Hope it’s helpful for others too, as it is for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think i'd go for the folded arms aproach. Instantly puts up not only a phisical barrier but a physological one too. If the impending doom of body contact for some reason didn't read the message then leave left arm there and offer a wet lettuce of a handshake! With no eye contact.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

But how do you know that that person isn’t that 1%?

You don't and here is where the seat belt analogy comes in.

I buckle up every time I get in the car even though statistically I'm unlikely to have an accident every time I drive.

I apply the same logic to my interactions with other people. I take precautions even though statistically I know it's unlikely I need to every time."

Exactly! So therefore it’s easier to do the hug in case of negative consequences isn’t it?

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By *ruceyyMan
over a year ago

London

"Just tell them fluffs. Never do anything you don't want to do x

Brucey what if you can’t

Do you want me to fuck them up for you? I'm big and strong right?

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

I’m quite good at making jokes and getting out of things that way.

I’ll show you next time I see you and you try to pounce

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

But how do you know that that person isn’t that 1%?

You don't and here is where the seat belt analogy comes in.

I buckle up every time I get in the car even though statistically I'm unlikely to have an accident every time I drive.

I apply the same logic to my interactions with other people. I take precautions even though statistically I know it's unlikely I need to every time."

This incident does sound a lot more dangerous than a potential car accident though. An escaped crazed lunatic is going to random bars unnannounced to give random people hugs and won't leave you until he's got one...

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By *enrietteandSamCouple
over a year ago

Staffordshire

I do the statue and blank face pose.

They get the message and everyone else gets the idea.

There’s been many people I can’t stand that always used to kiss me as a greeting because it’s what they do… they have stopped doing it to me as they realise how much I am not participating.

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By *educing_EmCouple
over a year ago

Tipperary

If I can see by their body language that they are coming at me to hug me I'll just put my hand out for a handshake instead, it's usually enough to stall them and put them off. If not and they continue,I'd step back and say I don't like hugs sorry .

The worst is when they come at you from behind so you're not prepared,in that instance I have frozen but I've also pushed them off .

If I'm on my own it is worse though because if it's a stranger and things turn sour you don't know how they'll react.

Em x

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By *ruceyyMan
over a year ago

London

"If I can see by their body language that they are coming at me to hug me I'll just put my hand out for a handshake instead, it's usually enough to stall them and put them off. If not and they continue,I'd step back and say I don't like hugs sorry .

The worst is when they come at you from behind so you're not prepared,in that instance I have frozen but I've also pushed them off .

If I'm on my own it is worse though because if it's a stranger and things turn sour you don't know how they'll react.

Em x"

You mean, no one else gets the spray bottle?!

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By *abtastic Mr FoxMan
over a year ago

A den in the Glen

Does this really happen or is it super hypothetical?

Usually the dislike is on both sides and so begins the game of not trying to be in the same space together.

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By *educing_EmCouple
over a year ago

Tipperary

The worst is when they come at you from behind so you're not prepared,in that instance I have frozen but I've also pushed them off .

If I'm on my own it is worse though because if it's a stranger and things turn sour you don't know how they'll react.

Em x

You mean, no one else gets the spray bottle?!

My husband does

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Just tell them fluffs. Never do anything you don't want to do x

Brucey what if you can’t

Do you want me to fuck them up for you? I'm big and strong right?

Behave

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’m quite good at making jokes and getting out of things that way.

I’ll show you next time I see you and you try to pounce

You wish

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

But how do you know that that person isn’t that 1%?

You don't and here is where the seat belt analogy comes in.

I buckle up every time I get in the car even though statistically I'm unlikely to have an accident every time I drive.

I apply the same logic to my interactions with other people. I take precautions even though statistically I know it's unlikely I need to every time.

I mean I’m all up for lols and that but this is a serious thing

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I do the statue and blank face pose.

They get the message and everyone else gets the idea.

There’s been many people I can’t stand that always used to kiss me as a greeting because it’s what they do… they have stopped doing it to me as they realise how much I am not participating."

Some people don’t get the message tho do they

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The worst is when they come at you from behind so you're not prepared,in that instance I have frozen but I've also pushed them off .

If I'm on my own it is worse though because if it's a stranger and things turn sour you don't know how they'll react.

Em x"

Exactly! And it’s that unknown quantity that makes the whole thing difficult to navigate

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Does this really happen or is it super hypothetical?

Usually the dislike is on both sides and so begins the game of not trying to be in the same space together."

Of course it happens. It’s happened to me, hence the post

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By *odgerMooreMan
over a year ago

Fulwood

If they know you don’t want to but persist anyway - you need to own your space- be firm and polite but say no - and defend your space. If they know and persist its about power and they are trying to impose themselves on you and thats not ok and never ok.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

But how do you know that that person isn’t that 1%?

You don't and here is where the seat belt analogy comes in.

I buckle up every time I get in the car even though statistically I'm unlikely to have an accident every time I drive.

I apply the same logic to my interactions with other people. I take precautions even though statistically I know it's unlikely I need to every time.

Exactly! So therefore it’s easier to do the hug in case of negative consequences isn’t it? "

Yes.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

1 in 300 has psychosis. It’s just environmental that their behaviour is modified, until the specific stimulus creates a (to them rational) permission. More lunatics about than we think there are.

* spots lunatic refusing to say Grande in Starbucks "

So in a gathering of 15 people there are what?....

0.05 lunatics

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

But how do you know that that person isn’t that 1%?

You don't and here is where the seat belt analogy comes in.

I buckle up every time I get in the car even though statistically I'm unlikely to have an accident every time I drive.

I apply the same logic to my interactions with other people. I take precautions even though statistically I know it's unlikely I need to every time.

Can you understand how women might feel in situations like this? Its not really something to be dismissed with jokes.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

I’d just hug them. It’s only a hug. Wouldn’t bother me really. Wouldn’t cause a scene over a hug to be honest.

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By *ongandharderMan
over a year ago

Rotherham

Advise them I have no intentions advise them to leave me alone

And hope they understand if not take further measures

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If they know you don’t want to but persist anyway - you need to own your space- be firm and polite but say no - and defend your space. If they know and persist its about power and they are trying to impose themselves on you and thats not ok and never ok.

xx"

Yeah and that’s a big problem isn’t it!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

1 in 300 has psychosis. It’s just environmental that their behaviour is modified, until the specific stimulus creates a (to them rational) permission. More lunatics about than we think there are.

* spots lunatic refusing to say Grande in Starbucks

So in a gathering of 15 people there are what?....

0.05 lunatics "

But you don’t know who’s the lunatic…

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By *ruceyyMan
over a year ago

London

The worst is when they come at you from behind so you're not prepared,in that instance I have frozen but I've also pushed them off .

If I'm on my own it is worse though because if it's a stranger and things turn sour you don't know how they'll react.

Em x

You mean, no one else gets the spray bottle?!

My husband does

Awww your true loves

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By *ruceyyMan
over a year ago

London

"Just tell them fluffs. Never do anything you don't want to do x

Brucey what if you can’t

Do you want me to fuck them up for you? I'm big and strong right?

Behave

I'm a LION fluffy!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’d just hug them. It’s only a hug. Wouldn’t bother me really. Wouldn’t cause a scene over a hug to be honest. "

See if it’s someone I’m indifferent about I would. But if it’s someone you really don’t like?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Advise them I have no intentions advise them to leave me alone

And hope they understand if not take further measures "

What would your further measures be?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Just tell them fluffs. Never do anything you don't want to do x

Brucey what if you can’t

Do you want me to fuck them up for you? I'm big and strong right?

Behave

I'm a LION fluffy!"

You are with that hair…

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By *rimson_RoseWoman
over a year ago

Tamworth

"Side step or manhandle them off me. I’m a definite fight or flight not freeze

You’re good

I need to channel my inner CR

I’m not demonstrative with family or friends. They know me well and generally avoid hugging me. Apart from a former colleague who once licked my cheek on a night out

Join the army, see the world, get your face licked!

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I’d just hug them. It’s only a hug. Wouldn’t bother me really. Wouldn’t cause a scene over a hug to be honest.

See if it’s someone I’m indifferent about I would. But if it’s someone you really don’t like?"

If it’s just one of those quick hello hugs I’d just go with it. I don’t like drama and scenes and it would be uncomfortable so yeah I’d go with it. I have done a few times in the past.

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By *ruceyyMan
over a year ago

London

"Just tell them fluffs. Never do anything you don't want to do x

Brucey what if you can’t

Do you want me to fuck them up for you? I'm big and strong right?

Behave

I'm a LION fluffy!

You are with that hair…

You wanna grab it and stroke it you know you do!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's quite revealing how many people think it's ok to put up with feeling uncomfortable so other people don't feel uncomfortable.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Side step or manhandle them off me. I’m a definite fight or flight not freeze

You’re good

I need to channel my inner CR

I’m not demonstrative with family or friends. They know me well and generally avoid hugging me. Apart from a former colleague who once licked my cheek on a night out

Join the army, see the world, get your face licked!"

Omg I’d have to go and wash

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Just tell them fluffs. Never do anything you don't want to do x

Brucey what if you can’t

Do you want me to fuck them up for you? I'm big and strong right?

Behave

I'm a LION fluffy!

You are with that hair…

You wanna grab it and stroke it you know you do!"

I wanna drag a brush through it

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It's quite revealing how many people think it's ok to put up with feeling uncomfortable so other people don't feel uncomfortable.

And isn’t that sad?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's quite revealing how many people think it's ok to put up with feeling uncomfortable so other people don't feel uncomfortable.

And isn’t that sad?"

Sad, and a little angry too. Because there's a message that our boundaries don't matter. Men and women. Where does that end?

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"It's quite revealing how many people think it's ok to put up with feeling uncomfortable so other people don't feel uncomfortable.

And isn’t that sad?"

Thing is though something like that wouldn’t make me feel uncomfortable. I’d feel more uncomfortable causing a scene. If someone tried planting a kiss on my lips then yeah that wouldn’t be acceptable for me.

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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago

In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon

I mean... once I threw up on him

I've had this a few times, and one particular person I ended up losing my shit and screaming "don't fucking touch me you fucking creepy scumbag" at him. That was after he had basically stalked me around a party every year for 6 years, cornering me and hugging every time, and I couldn’t take it again. Every other time I'd frozen.

In a slightly less extreme and not ongoing way, if I couldn't avoid the person (as in, opposite sides of the room at the very least) and they were coming in... freeze or fawn. Internally I'm screaming but externally I'm at the very least one arm hugging, so I don't make people feel uncomfortable.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It's quite revealing how many people think it's ok to put up with feeling uncomfortable so other people don't feel uncomfortable.

And isn’t that sad?

Sad, and a little angry too. Because there's a message that our boundaries don't matter. Men and women. Where does that end? "

It’s interesting that some men and women both say they’d do it for the sake of a quiet life

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It's quite revealing how many people think it's ok to put up with feeling uncomfortable so other people don't feel uncomfortable.

And isn’t that sad?

You strike me as a very confident person anyway tho, so what would your reaction be if someone did try and snog you?

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I mean... once I threw up on him

Oh god if it was a situation like you just said. I’d knee him in the bollocks! Thought it was more someone you didn’t particular like.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I mean... once I threw up on him

"So I don't make people feel uncomfortable" but what about you, Posh? You matter more than some random who wants a hug!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I mean... once I threw up on him

Why is it so important to make other people feel comfortable over our own comfort? I’ve never thrown up on anyone tho

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"It's quite revealing how many people think it's ok to put up with feeling uncomfortable so other people don't feel uncomfortable.

And isn’t that sad?

You strike me as a very confident person anyway tho, so what would your reaction be if someone did try and snog you?"

Definitely push them away with a wtf are you doing?!

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By *use and wolfCouple
over a year ago

angus

i would ask them kindly to please not to invade my personal space to avoid a scene

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's quite revealing how many people think it's ok to put up with feeling uncomfortable so other people don't feel uncomfortable.

And isn’t that sad?

Sad, and a little angry too. Because there's a message that our boundaries don't matter. Men and women. Where does that end?

It’s interesting that some men and women both say they’d do it for the sake of a quiet life"

Yeah. And because as you started with - it's hard to control a stress response. I'm assertive on here. IRL I've allowed multiple people to do things I don't want because I freeze. And I refuse to feel guilty anymore.

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By *ensuallover1000Man
over a year ago

Somewhere In The Ether…

Thinking carefully about this one….

Yeah, I’d behead them and take their quickening.

There can be only one after all

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

This has made me think though because I usually give people a light hug and maybe a kiss on the cheek. I’ve been to countless fab group socials and I would automatically say hi and give them a kiss on the cheek, as I always would on a one to one social meeting for the first time. It’s just the way I am. Maybe I shouldn’t, maybe it makes people feel uncomfortable. I’ve never put much thought into it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The worst result is that it may turn slightly awkward and then you'll all eventually talk or move on

What if they take it personally and follow you out of the bar? Get nasty in front of the group?

Well then you need to find a better friend group

No normal people would react to a snub of a hug by reacting like a crazed lunatic

But how do you know if this person is normal or a crazed lunatic?

99% of people aren't.

But how do you know that that person isn’t that 1%?

You don't and here is where the seat belt analogy comes in.

I buckle up every time I get in the car even though statistically I'm unlikely to have an accident every time I drive.

I apply the same logic to my interactions with other people. I take precautions even though statistically I know it's unlikely I need to every time.

Can you understand how women might feel in situations like this? Its not really something to be dismissed with jokes. "

In real situations, yes, but this exact, hypothetical situation above required some sarcasm

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Possibly completely unrelated but, I think this is when we should be teaching young ones that kissing and cuddling even close relatives is a choice and not something that is expected of them. breaking the cycle of putting up with making ourselves feel uncomfortable because it’s the socially acceptable thing to do.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"This has made me think though because I usually give people a light hug and maybe a kiss on the cheek. I’ve been to countless fab group socials and I would automatically say hi and give them a kiss on the cheek, as I always would on a one to one social meeting for the first time. It’s just the way I am. Maybe I shouldn’t, maybe it makes people feel uncomfortable. I’ve never put much thought into it. "

For instance if I was to meet you fluffy at a social I would probably put my arm on yours and give you a peck on the cheek and say lovely to meet you. You might hate me though!

That would be natural to me. Maybe it shouldn’t be

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

i would ask them kindly to please not to invade my personal space to avoid a scene "

I like this too

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/11/23 12:00:27]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Thinking carefully about this one….

Yeah, I’d behead them and take their quickening.

There can be only one after all

Take their whatty?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

For instance if I was to meet you fluffy at a social I would probably put my arm on yours and give you a peck on the cheek and say lovely to meet you. You might hate me though!

That would be natural to me. Maybe it shouldn’t be

See that to me is fine. It’s not invasive, you’re not trapping me and I’ve never met you so I have no reason to think you’re a baddie. The situation I originally started wihh th stemmed from having met someone twice in group situations and felt really uncomfortable both times. In that case I’d much rather not have the hug from the person I already know I dislike. Does that make sense or am I waffling

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Possibly completely unrelated but, I think this is when we should be teaching young ones that kissing and cuddling even close relatives is a choice and not something that is expected of them. breaking the cycle of putting up with making ourselves feel uncomfortable because it’s the socially acceptable thing to do. "

There was a big thing about this on social media a while ago and I thought it was such a good idea. We all grew up having to get our faces smushed by grannies and lipstick smears from aunties and great big bear hugs from uncles, really I bet almost all of us would have chosen not to if we could!

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By *ilthycoupleabzCouple
over a year ago

Aberdeen

For instance if I was to meet you fluffy at a social I would probably put my arm on yours and give you a peck on the cheek and say lovely to meet you. You might hate me though!

That would be natural to me. Maybe it shouldn’t be

That is slightly different though, is it not? A hello hug/kiss greeting is generally an acceptable thing in such a setting.

However, if previously you had met and made FC feel uncomfortable, then prehaps greeting with a hug would then be the problem?

Also, as bad as it sounds, you are female and if FC said "oh, I dont like hugs" you'd no doubt apologise and move on from it. You aren't perceived as a possible threat?

MrsAbz

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By *aith SkynbyrdWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere else

"A bit of thinking.

Feel free to wander past my musings, especially if it’s triggering

I personally am a freeze person which is annoying because I’m fully capable of fighting and would usually win quite easily.

Anyway, I digress.

You really DO NOT want to be physically engaging with this person. Social niceties are not enough to make you take one for the team.

What do YOU do?"

Oh boy. I actually know EXACTLY how hard this is. I’m 4’11 … anyway, do you feel confortable confiding in one of your other friends, asking someone in the group to be your personal bouncer? Maybe not ideal but I assume this isn’t an easy fix so trying to think outside the box for you.

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By *aith SkynbyrdWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere else

"Push them away simples

Do you think you’re able to say that because you’re a man and therefore less likely to face any consequences?"

I was about to reply similarly to that.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"A bit of thinking.

Feel free to wander past my musings, especially if it’s triggering

I personally am a freeze person which is annoying because I’m fully capable of fighting and would usually win quite easily.

Anyway, I digress.

You really DO NOT want to be physically engaging with this person. Social niceties are not enough to make you take one for the team.

What do YOU do?

Luckily the second time I did manage to grab a cheerful soul who stayed with me!

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

It is a fine line, that is one of the issues too. For some, it may cause other issues.

By giving total choice, you remove a lot of exposure to such things. They may choose not to interact with people like that and never have developed the skills. But yes, there needs to be more social boundary awareness.

As usual it falls in to the same lines as this saying "Introverts get told to step out of their comfort zone, but extroverts never get told to make the zone more comfortable"

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

For instance if I was to meet you fluffy at a social I would probably put my arm on yours and give you a peck on the cheek and say lovely to meet you. You might hate me though!

That would be natural to me. Maybe it shouldn’t be

That is slightly different though, is it not? A hello hug/kiss greeting is generally an acceptable thing in such a setting.

However, if previously you had met and made FC feel uncomfortable, then prehaps greeting with a hug would then be the problem?

Also, as bad as it sounds, you are female and if FC said "oh, I dont like hugs" you'd no doubt apologise and move on from it. You aren't perceived as a possible threat?

MrsAbz

Yeah there’s absolutely truth in that, if it was a woman making me feel uncomfortable I’d find it so much easier to head off the unwanted hug politely and without making a scene because I would have 100% confidence that I wouldn’t be putting myself in any danger!

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By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"A bit of thinking.

Feel free to wander past my musings, especially if it’s triggering

I personally am a freeze person which is annoying because I’m fully capable of fighting and would usually win quite easily.

Anyway, I digress.

You really DO NOT want to be physically engaging with this person. Social niceties are not enough to make you take one for the team.

What do YOU do?

The lass that shoved her hand down my pants was 5’1. Intimidating in an entirely different way

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah Sal

I know exactly where you’re coming from. Maybe me and you should practice being assertive in person!"

That's actually a good idea. Role play an awkward situation with a friend.

Even with a friend it would feel a bit weird if you made it weird. Then you practice saying no/ moving away and it gets easier.

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By *aith SkynbyrdWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere else

"Freeze is your minds inability to determine fight or flight options. So you might look at ways you respond to stress and develop reactive behaviours which would help.

In this scenario i tend to go for (or relapse into) and kind of loose contact, enough not to escalate their reaction, not so much I can’t step back into free space. "

I never knew that about freeze

a lot more things make sense now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ugh thread closed and I'm late to the party and still reading!

Just want to comment that I love this kind of discussion thread! Thanks OP.

And my thoughts as I continue to read are that men would say get off but women are more likely to accept the hug. Social conditioning/ not wanting to piss the person off because who knows what could escalate....

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