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Is the law an ass?

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By *exySwing3rs OP   Couple
over a year ago

In Your Hearts

Watching those fly-on-the-wall documentaries about the Police, Saints & Scroungers, etc., you see vast amount of valuable resources spent on catching criminals and all the perpetrators get is a caution or suspend sentence or just community service.

Are we too lenient?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes we are way to soft.

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By *uckoo clockCouple
over a year ago

Merseyside

Absolutely we are too lenient.

In fact it's probably against everyone's human rights to actually demand a punishment that fits the crime

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft. Political correctness has its place but not when dealing with criminals that don't respect anyone or anything...

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By *inky BunnyMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Does a crocodile give up its lunch?

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley

Just to help your blood boil look at how many non UK citizens have committed crimes and are then not deported after sentence. Makes no sense to me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft. "

LOL it was the current government who on election announced that there were too many people in prison, and wanted more non custodial sentences. Mind you I am not sure what policy is at the moment they have done so many u turns, and back peddling I am just dizzy!

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By *uckoldandWifeCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

It costs £40,000 to keep someone in prison for a year, probably an equal amount to prosecute.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft. Political correctness has its place but not when dealing with criminals that don't respect anyone or anything..."

I'm not sure it's such a short term change to be honest. Since way back in that woman's time budgets were cut on prisons etc and therefore sentencing had to become more lenient as there weren't the spaces in the prisons. Granted the soft liberal element of the public sector have encouraged this change more and more in later years but i don't think you can lump this one on his tonyness alone.

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By *artinichilled1TV/TS
over a year ago

Bedford

Bring back the birch. Though for some that would'nt be a punishment.lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The police force doesn't just go after high profile, high value criminals. There is a lot of tedious leg work done on relatively minor cases, but things that Joe Public see everyday as the media like to show scroungers, scallywags and habitual lawbreakers albeit in a small scale. They all have to be investigated even if the end result is a smack on the wrist or community sentence. These offences all add up and sooner or later the courts will throw the book at them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft. Political correctness has its place but not when dealing with criminals that don't respect anyone or anything...

I'm not sure it's such a short term change to be honest. Since way back in that woman's time budgets were cut on prisons etc and therefore sentencing had to become more lenient as there weren't the spaces in the prisons. Granted the soft liberal element of the public sector have encouraged this change more and more in later years but i don't think you can lump this one on his tonyness alone."

I agree, it was happening before the evil one took over but it got far worse when he did, subsequent governments have only made things worse. I have family in the police service (not allowed to call it a force anymore, too scary), some of The things they tell me beggars belief..

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft. Political correctness has its place but not when dealing with criminals that don't respect anyone or anything..."

Please explain to us not in the no how political correctness come into this?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/02/13 18:00:38]

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft. Political correctness has its place but not when dealing with criminals that don't respect anyone or anything..."

Tony Blair was not the left wing.

If people are getting lesser sentences it's to save money, not because of 'political correctness'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft. Political correctness has its place but not when dealing with criminals that don't respect anyone or anything...

Please explain to us not in the no how political correctness come into this?"

Perhaps political correctness may not be the best phrase. I mean that we've become overly concious of upsetting anyone's feelings. Regardless of their crimes, criminals are treated with kid gloves and if they're not there's an inquest and usually a compensation pay out because a police officer trod on his foot during an arrest.

People no longer respect the police, and they're powerless to change that.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft. Political correctness has its place but not when dealing with criminals that don't respect anyone or anything...

Please explain to us not in the no how political correctness come into this?

Perhaps political correctness may not be the best phrase. I mean that we've become overly concious of upsetting anyone's feelings. Regardless of their crimes, criminals are treated with kid gloves and if they're not there's an inquest and usually a compensation pay out because a police officer trod on his foot during an arrest.

People no longer respect the police, and they're powerless to change that. "

People have always disrespected the police. The idea that everyone used to jump to attention and pay attention to the local bobby is just made up.

I've never heard of anyone getting compensation for having their foot trod on, either. Examples?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft. Political correctness has its place but not when dealing with criminals that don't respect anyone or anything...

Please explain to us not in the no how political correctness come into this?

Perhaps political correctness may not be the best phrase. I mean that we've become overly concious of upsetting anyone's feelings. Regardless of their crimes, criminals are treated with kid gloves and if they're not there's an inquest and usually a compensation pay out because a police officer trod on his foot during an arrest.

People no longer respect the police, and they're powerless to change that.

People have always disrespected the police. The idea that everyone used to jump to attention and pay attention to the local bobby is just made up.

I've never heard of anyone getting compensation for having their foot trod on, either. Examples?"

Regardless of what I say, you're not going to get my point. I'll just gracefully bow out of this conversation...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Our law system is way too old. Totally needs a revamp in my opinion. A slapped hand and sent on your way has no effect on the criminal what so ever.. We are way too lenient!

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By *uckoldandWifeCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

70% of prisoners re offend in the UK

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I grew up in an area with a lot of dodgy people. sentences were on the whole just as lenient in the seventies. its not a new thing

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By *howman_ukMan
over a year ago

birmingham


"Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft.

LOL it was the current government who on election announced that there were too many people in prison, and wanted more non custodial sentences. Mind you I am not sure what policy is at the moment they have done so many u turns, and back peddling I am just dizzy!"

a back peddle when you know you are wrong is better than ploughing on because of your pride....we all know pride comes before a fall!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The vast majority of issues are social not matters of law. The judicial system is long winded because we live in a democracy and a system where we are innocent until proven guilty.

Unfortunately public sector services are expected to run like private business except we deal in the currency of people not money.

I've seen numerous examples of leniency andcases of criminals getting away with offences, but we have a system aand we must work hard to ensure its exploited to the benefit of normal every day decent people.

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By *ander_XMan
over a year ago

Greater Manchester

[Removed by poster at 25/02/13 19:47:56]

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

Tony Blair was about as left wing as Ayn Rand !

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By *ander_XMan
over a year ago

Greater Manchester

[Removed by poster at 25/02/13 19:49:49]

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By *ander_XMan
over a year ago

Greater Manchester

Being tough on crime is very expensive, it costs a lot of money to keep someone in prison. Ironic that it's usually people who want a small state and low taxes that also call for us to keep people in prison longer

Prison does not really work as a deterrent. Look at America; they have the largest prison population in the world. Almost 1% of their population is currently in prison, more than 2 million people! In Britain we have the highest prison population in Europe of about 97,000, about 0.2% of our population. Do harsh prison sentences make America a lovely safe place to live? Fuck no!

The fact is we're actually in a time of pretty low overall crime rates, the lowest for 30 years (even accounting the massaging of the statistics that goes on).

But, we're bombarded with the message that 'society is falling apart' every minute of every day, because it sells newspapers.

Those newspapers and the political right use 'tough on crime rhetoric' to sell their papers/ideology, but they'd never actually want it to happen because them and their mates would have to pay more tax.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/02/13 19:51:46]

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"Being tough on crime is very expensive, it costs a lot of money to keep someone in prison. Ironic that it's usually people who want a small state and low taxes that also call for us to keep people in prison longer

Prison does not really work as a deterrent. Look at America; they have the largest prison population in the world. Almost 1% of their population is currently in prison, more than 2 million people! In Britain we have the highest prison population in Europe of about 97,000, about 0.2% of our population. Do harsh prison sentences make America a lovely safe place to live? Fuck no!

The fact is we're actually in a time of pretty low overall crime rates, the lowest for 30 years (even accounting the massaging of the statistics that goes on).

But, we're bombarded with the message that 'society is falling apart' every minute of every day, because it sells newspapers.

Those newspapers and the political right use 'tough on crime rhetoric' to sell their papers/ideology, but they'd never actually want it to happen because them and their mates would have to pay more tax."

Halle-fucking-lujah !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Being tough on crime is very expensive, it costs a lot of money to keep someone in prison. Ironic that it's usually people who want a small state and low taxes that also call for us to keep people in prison longer

Prison does not really work as a deterrent. Look at America; they have the largest prison population in the world. Almost 1% of their population is currently in prison, more than 2 million people! In Britain we have the highest prison population in Europe of about 97,000, about 0.2% of our population. Do harsh prison sentences make America a lovely safe place to live? Fuck no!

The fact is we're actually in a time of pretty low overall crime rates, the lowest for 30 years (even accounting the massaging of the statistics that goes on).

But, we're bombarded with the message that 'society is falling apart' every minute of every day, because it sells newspapers.

Those newspapers and the political right use 'tough on crime rhetoric' to sell their papers/ideology, but they'd never actually want it to happen because them and their mates would have to pay more tax."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/02/13 20:29:08]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We do not need to send one-time criminals to prison, nor do we need to incarcerate motorists (for not paying road tax etc, the serious motoring offences still need to carry custodial sentences). There are many thousands of prisoners in jail when a non-custodial sentence would have sufficed. By the same token I don't advocate locking someone up and throwing away the key apart from the real heinous crimes we all know and loathe. A city financier committing high level fraud does not need to be incarcerated for 10 years as his/her career is effectively over anyway (unless they fuck off abroad but then it's someone else's problem), so giving them a punitive sentence for the original crime should be enough.

I am reminded of a quote in The Shawshank Redemption from Andy Dufresne: "On the outside I was as straight as an arrow, I had to come here to learn how to be a crook."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I grew up in an area with a lot of dodgy people. sentences were on the whole just as lenient in the seventies. its not a new thing"
same in most places

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am going to go q bit of topic here, a lot of people say the system isn't working.

Do you have an idea that might?

National service maybe, or does rhat bring up anothet set of issues?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I am going to go q bit of topic here, a lot of people say the system isn't working.

Do you have an idea that might?

National service maybe, or does rhat bring up anothet set of issues?"

The size of the Armed Forces is being reduced so that probably isn't the answer.

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By *ander_XMan
over a year ago

Greater Manchester


"I am going to go q bit of topic here, a lot of people say the system isn't working.

Do you have an idea that might?

National service maybe, or does rhat bring up anothet set of issues?"

Do you know how many ex servicemen end up in prison? A lot, there's currently about 3,000 of them.

Sorry if it's a bit of an 'out there' idea, but how about a more equal society as a solution?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I am going to go q bit of topic here, a lot of people say the system isn't working.

Do you have an idea that might?

National service maybe, or does rhat bring up anothet set of issues?

Do you know how many ex servicemen end up in prison? A lot, there's currently about 3,000 of them.

................ "

So, the plan is to replace them with people who ought to be in prison?

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"I am going to go q bit of topic here, a lot of people say the system isn't working.

Do you have an idea that might?

National service maybe, or does rhat bring up anothet set of issues?

Do you know how many ex servicemen end up in prison? A lot, there's currently about 3,000 of them.

................

So, the plan is to replace them with people who ought to be in prison?"

So, the ex-servicemen shouldn't be ?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I am going to go q bit of topic here, a lot of people say the system isn't working.

Do you have an idea that might?

National service maybe, or does rhat bring up anothet set of issues?

Do you know how many ex servicemen end up in prison? A lot, there's currently about 3,000 of them.

................

So, the plan is to replace them with people who ought to be in prison?

So, the ex-servicemen shouldn't be ?"

I'm not sure what that last sentence means.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"I am going to go q bit of topic here, a lot of people say the system isn't working.

Do you have an idea that might?

National service maybe, or does rhat bring up anothet set of issues?

Do you know how many ex servicemen end up in prison? A lot, there's currently about 3,000 of them.

................

So, the plan is to replace them with people who ought to be in prison?

So, the ex-servicemen shouldn't be ?

I'm not sure what that last sentence means."

I wasn't quite sure what yours meant but it seemed to imply that ex-servicemen should be replaced in prisons by people that ought to be in prison ? Apologies if that wasnt th case.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Today we have far more cctv with big brother society, better techniques for solving crime, larger police force, population is also growing. It all means that far more people are actually sent to prison. As a result of full prisons, those who commit less serious crimes are let off with warnings etc. And lets be honest, being easy on criminals is better then being too strict I.e chopping off someones hand for theft. And as people have pointed out, it is very expensive to take someone to court these days.

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By *ander_XMan
over a year ago

Greater Manchester


"I am going to go q bit of topic here, a lot of people say the system isn't working.

Do you have an idea that might?

National service maybe, or does rhat bring up anothet set of issues?

Do you know how many ex servicemen end up in prison? A lot, there's currently about 3,000 of them.

................

So, the plan is to replace them with people who ought to be in prison?

So, the ex-servicemen shouldn't be ?

I'm not sure what that last sentence means."

Google "The Spirit Level".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am going to go q bit of topic here, a lot of people say the system isn't working.

Do you have an idea that might?

National service maybe, or does rhat bring up anothet set of issues?"

Problem with giving criminals national service duties is that there are already many redundancies happening so for every criminal who joins military, someone may lose their job. Plus do they make the military grade in regards to skills and fitness, do we want these individuals in the military, what would the rest of the military think, would it mean people just look as military as criminals etc etc list is endless

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today we have far more cctv with big brother society, better techniques for solving crime, larger police force, population is also growing. It all means that far more people are actually sent to prison. As a result of full prisons, those who commit less serious crimes are let off with warnings etc. And lets be honest, being easy on criminals is better then being too strict I.e chopping off someones hand for theft. And as people have pointed out, it is very expensive to take someone to court these days. "

The answer would be to fir high velocity rifles to the cctv cameras so when a crime deemed worthy of punishment the crim is shot. Semi serious offence the arse, minor crime a leg or arm and serious one then between the eyes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today we have far more cctv with big brother society, better techniques for solving crime, larger police force, population is also growing. It all means that far more people are actually sent to prison. As a result of full prisons, those who commit less serious crimes are let off with warnings etc.

And lets be honest, being easy on criminals is better then being too strict I.e chopping off someones hand for theft. And as people have pointed out, it is very expensive to take someone to court these days.

The answer would be to fir high velocity rifles to the cctv cameras so when a crime deemed worthy of punishment the crim is shot. Semi serious offence the arse, minor crime a leg or arm and serious one then between the eyes. "

Lol interesting concept haha

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

At times.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today we have far more cctv with big brother society, better techniques for solving crime, larger police force, population is also growing. It all means that far more people are actually sent to prison. As a result of full prisons, those who commit less serious crimes are let off with warnings etc. And lets be honest, being easy on criminals is better then being too strict I.e chopping off someones hand for theft. And as people have pointed out, it is very expensive to take someone to court these days.

The answer would be to fir high velocity rifles to the cctv cameras so when a crime deemed worthy of punishment the crim is shot. Semi serious offence the arse, minor crime a leg or arm and serious one then between the eyes. "

Wow that's pretty outlandish!

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

I can't offer an ideal solution but when are people going to realise that punishment doesn't work!

Does the death sentence in the USA and other countries stop murder? Does cutting off the hand of a pick-pocket solve the problem? Actually no it doesn't because now the person couldn't work if they wanted to!

Do these punishments deter? Obviously not!

Just look at history, the punishment system has never worked and it never will, regardless of how punitive or heavy it is.

It's pointless discussing a system that doesn't work and has not been seen to work for 100's if not 1000's of years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today we have far more cctv with big brother society, better techniques for solving crime, larger police force, population is also growing. It all means that far more people are actually sent to prison. As a result of full prisons, those who commit less serious crimes are let off with warnings etc. And lets be honest, being easy on criminals is better then being too strict I.e chopping off someones hand for theft. And as people have pointed out, it is very expensive to take someone to court these days.

The answer would be to fir high velocity rifles to the cctv cameras so when a crime deemed worthy of punishment the crim is shot. Semi serious offence the arse, minor crime a leg or arm and serious one then between the eyes.

Wow that's pretty outlandish! "

I would call it cost effective and a huge deterrent not to drop sweetie wrappers in the precinct.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes we are way to soft."

that bum looks nice and soft and very lenient

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Absolutely we are too lenient.

In fact it's probably against everyone's human rights to actually demand a punishment that fits the crime"

could you lenient a bit more this way please?

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By *howman_ukMan
over a year ago

birmingham


"I can't offer an ideal solution but when are people going to realise that punishment doesn't work!

Does the death sentence in the USA and other countries stop murder? Does cutting off the hand of a pick-pocket solve the problem? Actually no it doesn't because now the person couldn't work if they wanted to!

Do these punishments deter? Obviously not!

Just look at history, the punishment system has never worked and it never will, regardless of how punitive or heavy it is.

It's pointless discussing a system that doesn't work and has not been seen to work for 100's if not 1000's of years."

Theidea of prison stops me committing crime. How much higher would the crime rate be if there wasn't this deterrent?

I know people who are in and out of prison.... ask them why and they reply.... it's easier inside than outside.

Locking them up IS the answer or part of it, the rehabilitation that is applied to these people needs improving though. Only then will prison work more efficiently.

Of course the argument of well people still commit crime so the deterrent isnt working is poppy cock. There will ALWAYS be those who ignore what ever system is in place and commit crime.

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

Well I'm proud to say I personally don't need the law to tell me how to behave. I don't steel, cheat, murder because I choose not to.

I think its quite worry that you do feel you need to threat of prison to dictate how you treat your fellow humans.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Most folks know the difference between right and wrong and don't need the threat of punishment to keep them 'right'.

Some folks, however, just don't know the difference and need some sort of deterrent.

Whether prison is the correct deterrent is another matter 'cos most criminals don't ever imagien they'll get caught.

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

Perhaps its just a matter of justification on the part of the criminal?

Put your hand up if you have NEVER stolen anything. For example I picked up a pencil off a work-mates bench, to which he exclaimed "That's MY pencil" I said, "Is it, it say British Telecoms on it, I didn't realise you could by these in the shops!". Most of you are ahead of me now,it turns out his wife got several of the pencils from work and gave them to her hubby, she didn't have permission to take them, didn't purchase them and so it was quite simply stolen. Thus invoking the statement "Your wife is a thief" to which the guy was very insistent that she wasn't

My dad (long since passed away) for example, if you accused him of being a thief he would have felt highly insulted, ripped your head off an pissed in the hole but he seemed to think it was 'OK' to take stuff from work!!! He would never agree to it but the fact was he was a selective thief, taking things that he had no use for a lot of the time.

So perhaps the only real difference between the 'criminal' who according to some should be thrown in prison and treated less than human, and the general public is the level of criminality.

Taking things the easy way is the nature of the beast.

"You're grounded (imprisoned) for a week for taking a biscuit without asking".

"You're imprisoned (grounded) for ten years for taking money from a post office without asking".

Now we don't really need an onslaught of posts stating that there is a world of difference between taking a biscuit out of the food cupboard without asking mum or dad and the armed robbery of a post office.

But rather than arguing about the level of punishment in respect of the crime, or the level of the crime, think about the psychology that motivates a person to do what they do. To some extent no doubt its about being confident of not being caught but before the crime is committed it will always be justified in the mind of the person before they commit to it.

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By *howman_ukMan
over a year ago

birmingham


"Well I'm proud to say I personally don't need the law to tell me how to behave. I don't steel, cheat, murder because I choose not to.

I think its quite worry that you do feel you need to threat of prison to dictate how you treat your fellow humans."

Well I didn't quite mean it like that.......

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


"Since the left wing took power (Tony Blair onwards) we've become far too soft. Political correctness has its place but not when dealing with criminals that don't respect anyone or anything...

Please explain to us not in the no how political correctness come into this?

Perhaps political correctness may not be the best phrase. I mean that we've become overly concious of upsetting anyone's feelings. Regardless of their crimes, criminals are treated with kid gloves and if they're not there's an inquest and usually a compensation pay out because a police officer trod on his foot during an arrest.

People no longer respect the police, and they're powerless to change that.

People have always disrespected the police. The idea that everyone used to jump to attention and pay attention to the local bobby is just made up.

I've never heard of anyone getting compensation for having their foot trod on, either. Examples?"

People did respect the police, teachers, nurses and not that long ago!

I know as a kid the bobby was on the beat and he new the people on that beat.

I was as likely to get a clip round the ear from him as I was my parents if I misbehaved!

Yes some have always not respected people in authority but the thought that teachers, nurses, fire fighters and the like are under threat ehen doing their jobs trying to help others from louts and their like is a disgrace!

We all want to live in a safe society and go about our business without fear but it isn't going to happen

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes big time, the victim has become the villan.

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