FabSwingers.com forum: Protein supplements

By *ackdaw52 OP Man
over a year ago

Chesterfield

I started using protein powders about six months ago and not noticed any results.

I was fairly fit already but I had some weight to lose and wanted to gain some muscle if possible. My diet was quite good with a large amount of natural protein ie. chicken, fish, eggs, pulses etc.

I cut out a lot of sugar, upped my workouts and started taking supplements after workouts or busy days. I've lost a good amount of weight but I've not got stronger or gained any mass.

Am I doing it wrong? Is it genetics (all the men in my family are slim and wiry) or are supplements a big con?

Confused.

Thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A good protein powder and creatine are two of the few supplements that are actually effective.

It seems like your diet is pretty good but genetics always play a factor in how much/easily muscle you put on.

Without knowing how you train, sleep pattern and how much food you eat it’s hard to advise you.

I personally think a blended protein powder is better than the popular whey protein.

Your body can only absorb so much whey and the rest is wasted.

Feel free to drop me a message as my filters are open to all and I may be able to help you.

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By *imi_RougeWoman
over a year ago

Portsmouth

Surely if you're losing weight, you're not going to gain mass?

I'm sure Joe Beans and some of the other gym bunnies will have advice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've not talked about training here. That's the number one factor. Protein is the fuel..

But without training it will go on as fat.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes and no most are practicing worthless to be honest with you you can get the same out off milk and food

Lot cheaper

The ones that do things are tanted and it’s a race to nab them before they get discontinued and they get sold off at a discount

My go to saying is if it’s not on the usada banned supplement list it’s worthless

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By *otsossieMan
over a year ago

Chesterfield

"My go to saying is if it’s not on the usada banned supplement list it’s worthless "

Haha, brilliant

I agree!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes and no most are practicing worthless to be honest with you you can get the same out off milk and food

Lot cheaper

The ones that do things are tanted and it’s a race to nab them before they get discontinued and they get sold off at a discount

My go to saying is if it’s not on the usada banned supplement list it’s worthless "

Google usada tainted supplements list

Should be the first link Supplement Connect High Risk List

Scroll down to high risk

Scroll to the bottom sport ufc

User type athlete and it give you a full list off supplements that are tanted with steroids

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My go to saying is if it’s not on the usada banned supplement list it’s worthless

Haha, brilliant

I agree!"

It’s so true ha ha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/10/23 11:30:42]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Protein wont make ur muscles bigger only training will make ur muscles bigger protein helps ur muscles to recover quicker so if ur not training the muscle in the right way all the protein in the world wont make a difference, i would speak to the people at the gym u got to about it and they will advise u on ur training regime

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By *929Man
over a year ago

newcastle

Never use them personally prefer getting all daily protein from real food and whole milk

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By *ackdaw52 OP Man
over a year ago

Chesterfield

I do a gym workout 2-3 times a week, a 10k run once per week and I've got an active job (walk around 10-12km per day.

Gym is balanced, mainly weights and cardio.

I work all kinds of shifts so my sleep pattern can be all over the place!

Some people have told me I just need to take more, but I'm reluctant to do that because of all the artificial sweeteners and other rubbish in it, which wrecks your digestive system!

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By *rMonkeyMan
over a year ago

Somewhere

You dont need more protein, you need to train harder.

People complain they can't put muscle on but dont train anywhere near to failure or with the required intensity.

I'd look towards that being the problem rather than total protein intake.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whey isolate and creatine should be in your supplemental routine if you are doing any sort of physical activity, as a rule if you want to stay lean it’s 1g of protein per kilo body weight daily and count absolutely everything to eat or drink, if you want more muscle then up it to 1.5g protein per kilo and then realistically no more than 2g per kilo so if you weigh say 14 stone and then just call it 85 kilo or thereabouts then you need to be eating at least 120g of good protein to get bigger, use a macro tracker as it will give you a good insight into exactly what you are eating and also when you are training twenty mins cardio max and then all the rest of your time resistance training, also sleep is where you build so get at least 7-8 hours a night

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By *ackdaw52 OP Man
over a year ago

Chesterfield

"You dont need more protein, you need to train harder.

People complain they can't put muscle on but dont train anywhere near to failure or with the required intensity.

I'd look towards that being the problem rather than total protein intake."

Well I've noticed that the gym is full of men twice my size but they are only lifting about 70% of the weights I can do. So I assumed protein intake was the problem.

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By *rMonkeyMan
over a year ago

Somewhere

"You dont need more protein, you need to train harder.

People complain they can't put muscle on but dont train anywhere near to failure or with the required intensity.

I'd look towards that being the problem rather than total protein intake.

Well I've noticed that the gym is full of men twice my size but they are only lifting about 70% of the weights I can do. So I assumed protein intake was the problem. "

The amount of weight isn't the issue, it's how much stimulus you provide. If you are lifting heavier but not reaching close to failure then you won't grow.

The last 3 or 4 or even 5 reps need to be really hard, they are the ones that provide the growth stimulus. If you are doing 10 reps and none of them are hard towards the end you won't grow regardless of how heavy a weight you use.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You dont need more protein, you need to train harder.

People complain they can't put muscle on but dont train anywhere near to failure or with the required intensity.

I'd look towards that being the problem rather than total protein intake.

Well I've noticed that the gym is full of men twice my size but they are only lifting about 70% of the weights I can do. So I assumed protein intake was the problem.

The amount of weight isn't the issue, it's how much stimulus you provide. If you are lifting heavier but not reaching close to failure then you won't grow.

Sounds like you know your stuff Mr Monkey

Advice worth listening too, there was an ex pro bodybuilder called Vince Taylor who trained with comparatively light weights with high reps and looked phenomenal.

If you want to look up a guy on YouTube called John Meadows or The Mountain Dog there are plenty of good tips from a fella who’s genetics weren’t great and plugged away to finally earn his Pro card. A very knowledgeable guy who tried everything in his time.

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By *ravelling_WilburyMan
over a year ago

Beverley

Are you supplementing with protein or substituting meals? You won't make gains without surplus, so if suggest working out your BMR and ensuring you get that through food, and supplement with a protein shake miles with full fat milk. Other guys on here have more aesthetic physiques than I do but I used to powerlift competitively, so I know how to manipulate weight and supplement strength before anyone tells me I am wrong

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By *ravelling_WilburyMan
over a year ago

Beverley

Mixed, not miles

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By *ravelling_WilburyMan
over a year ago

Beverley

Also, I based the above on the assumption the the guy in question is training hard.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"I started using protein powders about six months ago and not noticed any results.

I was fairly fit already but I had some weight to lose and wanted to gain some muscle if possible. My diet was quite good with a large amount of natural protein ie. chicken, fish, eggs, pulses etc.

I cut out a lot of sugar, upped my workouts and started taking supplements after workouts or busy days. I've lost a good amount of weight but I've not got stronger or gained any mass.

Am I doing it wrong? Is it genetics (all the men in my family are slim and wiry) or are supplements a big con?

Confused.

Thanks"

Have you tried drinking magic water.?

I'm sure there are some good supplements and regimens out there. But there's an awful lot of smoke and mirrors.

James Smith seems quite a reputable source of info

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By *929Man
over a year ago

newcastle

Op you also mention wanting to lose fat and gain muscle can’t do both unless under rare circumstances (just starting training, just starting steroids or upping dose/using harder drugs)

Calorie defecit is needed to get leaner and regardless of protein intake you are not building muscle in a deficit especially not naturally

Pick one goal if you want to be leaner concentrate on that first before adding muscle then eat at least 2.2g protein per kilo rest in carbs and fats however you prefer slight surplus train as my monkey said as his advice spot on you get 4-5 “effective reps” per set if train to absolute failure 6-10 sets to failure per body part coupled with adequate protein be it from powder or food and you can’t fail to grow mate

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By *rMonkeyMan
over a year ago

Somewhere

"You dont need more protein, you need to train harder.

People complain they can't put muscle on but dont train anywhere near to failure or with the required intensity.

I'd look towards that being the problem rather than total protein intake.

Well I've noticed that the gym is full of men twice my size but they are only lifting about 70% of the weights I can do. So I assumed protein intake was the problem.

The amount of weight isn't the issue, it's how much stimulus you provide. If you are lifting heavier but not reaching close to failure then you won't grow.

Sounds like you know your stuff Mr Monkey

Advice worth listening too, there was an ex pro bodybuilder called Vince Taylor who trained with comparatively light weights with high reps and looked phenomenal.

The issue with the guys you mentioned is they were on gear, quite a lot. That distorts things as what worked for them will not work for the very large majority of natural guys.

High volume results in unnecessary accumulation of fatigue.

Example-

Person one does 3 sets of bench, 100kg x 15, 90kg x 13, 90kg x 10

All sets reach failure with 5 effective reps.

Person 2 does 3 sets of bench, 140kg x 8, 130kg x 7, 120kg x 6. All sets reach failure with 5 effective reps.

Both have achieved the same stimulus but person 2 has accumulated less fatigue. 3570kg vs 2750kg lifted for the same net result.

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By *ackdaw52 OP Man
over a year ago

Chesterfield

Thanks for your input, everybody. This has been helpful. I knew Fab would have the answers!

So bottom line is I need to choose between cutting and bulking.

Plus more training and heavier sets if I want to gain? Sounds obvious now, ha ha!

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By *ulieAndBeefCouple
over a year ago

Manchester-ish

"Thanks for your input, everybody. This has been helpful. I knew Fab would have the answers!

So bottom line is I need to choose between cutting and bulking.

Plus more training and heavier sets if I want to gain? Sounds obvious now, ha ha!"

Also cut out the long distance running, if you train like a distance runner, you'll look like one.

You can get the 'cardio' benefits from shorter, higher intensity efforts with a higher power output. Something like 4 x 400m run/ 500m row at maximum effort with equal rest will still maintain some aerobic capacity. If being able to run that far is important to you, stick a long slow 5/10km into your schedule once a month or something.

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By *inky ChefMan
over a year ago

Norwich

10 years ago it worked for me.

Lower the reps to at least 4x6 adjusting weight load.

Take Creatine and a good vitamin.

I used Alpha man.

Test how much you bench press once a month with a spotter.

Go for x3 not for x1 ,then you can calculate how much you could press once. You will see, if you get stronger.

At some point you'll reach your bodies natural limits.

You need to choose your goal is to get bigger or loose weight, but a diet protein powder and a 1 cheat day diet will help.

My average body fat was 25-30% most of my life.

I went down to 15% when I've done this.

I guess it's different person to person.

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By *rMonkeyMan
over a year ago

Somewhere

"Thanks for your input, everybody. This has been helpful. I knew Fab would have the answers!

So bottom line is I need to choose between cutting and bulking.

Plus more training and heavier sets if I want to gain? Sounds obvious now, ha ha!"

If you want to gain eat in a small surplus 250 calories. Keep protein high. Aim for .5lb per week gain as this will keep fat gain down.

You don't need more sets or heavier weight. You need intensity and to reach failure or as close to as possible every set. 6-9 sets per body part, rep range is up to you but I would go 6-9.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Thanks for your input, everybody. This has been helpful. I knew Fab would have the answers!

So bottom line is I need to choose between cutting and bulking.

Plus more training and heavier sets if I want to gain? Sounds obvious now, ha ha!"

And don't forget to monitor your macros, especially for your protein intake. You won't need to supplement, if you have sufficient protein that would create muscle gains.

Progressive changes can mean that you transform at a sustainable, realistic pace.

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By *ackdaw52 OP Man
over a year ago

Chesterfield

"Thanks for your input, everybody. This has been helpful. I knew Fab would have the answers!

So bottom line is I need to choose between cutting and bulking.

Plus more training and heavier sets if I want to gain? Sounds obvious now, ha ha!

If you want to gain eat in a small surplus 250 calories. Keep protein high. Aim for .5lb per week gain as this will keep fat gain down.

You don't need more sets or heavier weight. You need intensity and to reach failure or as close to as possible every set. 6-9 sets per body part, rep range is up to you but I would go 6-9.

At the moment I'm doing 3 or 4 sets of 10 reps on most weights. I always choose the maximum weight that I can manage, increasing if I feel capable.

I'm afraid I don't follow you. How do I get closer to failure without adding more weight or doing longer sets?

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By *929Man
over a year ago

newcastle

"Thanks for your input, everybody. This has been helpful. I knew Fab would have the answers!

So bottom line is I need to choose between cutting and bulking.

Plus more training and heavier sets if I want to gain? Sounds obvious now, ha ha!

If you want to gain eat in a small surplus 250 calories. Keep protein high. Aim for .5lb per week gain as this will keep fat gain down.

You don't need more sets or heavier weight. You need intensity and to reach failure or as close to as possible every set. 6-9 sets per body part, rep range is up to you but I would go 6-9.

At the moment I'm doing 3 or 4 sets of 10 reps on most weights. I always choose the maximum weight that I can manage, increasing if I feel capable.

I'm afraid I don't follow you. How do I get closer to failure without adding more weight or doing longer sets?"

How I personally do it mate is I generally do two sets per excercise the first set I select a weight where I can only manage between 4 and 6 reps for example I’d manage 5 but know the 6th is impossible. Next week I’d use the same weight and aim for 6 once I can hit 6 I’ll add a little bit weight next session which probably knock my reps down to 4 or 5 I’ll repeat the process till I can do 6.

Second set is exactly the same except my rep range is 6-8 you can chose whatever rep ranges you like but as mr monkey already said higher reps come with more fatigue. Rest 2-3 minutes between sets

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thanks for your input, everybody. This has been helpful. I knew Fab would have the answers!

So bottom line is I need to choose between cutting and bulking.

Plus more training and heavier sets if I want to gain? Sounds obvious now, ha ha!

If you want to gain eat in a small surplus 250 calories. Keep protein high. Aim for .5lb per week gain as this will keep fat gain down.

You don't need more sets or heavier weight. You need intensity and to reach failure or as close to as possible every set. 6-9 sets per body part, rep range is up to you but I would go 6-9.

At the moment I'm doing 3 or 4 sets of 10 reps on most weights. I always choose the maximum weight that I can manage, increasing if I feel capable.

I'm afraid I don't follow you. How do I get closer to failure without adding more weight or doing longer sets?"

I drop set, which means once I lose form, I lower the weight and crank out a few more.

(There's evidence a set of high reps increases gains)

Or just do a few body weight.

Or take a short break (10 - 20 secs) then do a couple more reps.

If you have a spotter they can help move the weight against gravity, and you control with.

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By *avexxMan
over a year ago

cheshire

get a good bag of fish and chips and a loaf of bread thats all the protein you need,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"get a good bag of fish and chips and a loaf of bread thats all the protein you need,,"
agreed. Listen up folks... Get all your protein from Hovis.

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By *rMonkeyMan
over a year ago

Somewhere

[Removed by poster at 21/10/23 20:28:54]

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By *rMonkeyMan
over a year ago

Somewhere

"Thanks for your input, everybody. This has been helpful. I knew Fab would have the answers!

So bottom line is I need to choose between cutting and bulking.

Plus more training and heavier sets if I want to gain? Sounds obvious now, ha ha!

If you want to gain eat in a small surplus 250 calories. Keep protein high. Aim for .5lb per week gain as this will keep fat gain down.

You don't need more sets or heavier weight. You need intensity and to reach failure or as close to as possible every set. 6-9 sets per body part, rep range is up to you but I would go 6-9.

At the moment I'm doing 3 or 4 sets of 10 reps on most weights. I always choose the maximum weight that I can manage, increasing if I feel capable.

I'm afraid I don't follow you. How do I get closer to failure without adding more weight or doing longer sets?

Second set is exactly the same except my rep range is 6-8 you can chose whatever rep ranges you like but as mr monkey already said higher reps come with more fatigue. Rest 2-3 minutes between sets "

What _929 said.

To add, if you can pick a weight and use that same weight for 3 or 4 sets of 10 reps, you are no where near failure.

You need to figure out where your failure point is on all your exercises first in whatever rep range you want to use and that is your starting point.

Pick a weight, if 10 reps is too easy add 10%, if still to easy add another 10%, you will find a point where you can do 8 or 9 reps and not complete the last reps to hit 10. Factoring in you have done 2 or 3 sets before add 5-10% to that weight and use as your starting point.

My Romanian deadlifts today were 210kg x 9, 200kg x 7, 190kg x 8. Its taken me 3 weeks to gain a rep at 210 kg, in the same time the lower weights have progressed more. Next week I'll add 5 kg to the first set, I'll probably drop at least 1 rep. It might take 1 week or 3 weeks again to manage that extra rep.

Just make sure overall volume for each exercise increases week on week. Only needs to be 1kg, more is more no matter how small.

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By *aiseiMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

There are potentially many aspects to your problem.

Are you getting enough calories in to gain mass? Do you know your TDEE to be able to establish that? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you getting enough protein? Are your testosterone levels low? Are you training for hypertrophy or strength?

The latter is one to be sure on…..you may well know this, but there are differences in approach to each. Sure, you’ll get stronger training for hypertrophy and you get bigger training for strength, but not as much as each specific discipline will deliver.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I started using protein powders about six months ago and not noticed any results.

I was fairly fit already but I had some weight to lose and wanted to gain some muscle if possible. My diet was quite good with a large amount of natural protein ie. chicken, fish, eggs, pulses etc.

I cut out a lot of sugar, upped my workouts and started taking supplements after workouts or busy days. I've lost a good amount of weight but I've not got stronger or gained any mass.

Am I doing it wrong? Is it genetics (all the men in my family are slim and wiry) or are supplements a big con?

Confused.

Thanks"

So you wanted to lose weight and gain weight at the same time?

And you’re wondering why it didn’t work?

Pick 1. You either lose fat, or gain muscle. Trying to do both (naturally) results in neither

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By *mcheshireMan
over a year ago

Cheshire

You have to concentrate on losing weight or bulking up. I am doing weight training at moment ( local gym ) and I am just eating more meat e.g. chicken which is helping build muscle while keeps the fat away. You can't do both but would avoid vitamins as you can overload your body.

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Protein supplements - useful or not?