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"I don't get it, or rather I do. Simply put organised religion is an attempt by groups to grab political and other forms of power, what confuses the hell out of me is why people sign up? It's not real you know.... " I agree, its simply a way of enforcing a particular groups will onto others that are either weaker or vulnerable. I've been happily atheist for years. | |||
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"Most religious people are born religious because they are brainwashed from a very early age to grow up to be that way! Many actually believe that all us non-believers are screwed, ruled by the devil and waiting to laugh at us on Judgement day! (Horses mouth that one...more than a few times!) Very little actually choose, and those that do, converts/born again/whatever, usually have issues that relate guilt or complete and utter emptiness and a life without meaning. Maybe even loneliness too. For somebody very down on luck, friends, happiness...religion can be a life saver! But then they are hooked and reeled in for good...not so much of a life saver! I was Christian until I was about 8 and realised it was a load of crap...luckily my parents were of the same opinion (just sent me to a Christian Primary School) Anyway, most other kids parents were not like that...and they'll probably be religious forever and so will their kids and so on and so on. That's how it has gone on for so long! Brainwash and mind control. Suppression of women is the darker side still very much alive. Did anybody else get kinda mad when that little girl from Pakistan who was shot and got treatment here and she decided to thank everybody who prayed for her!?! Don't you think she should of thanked the staff who saved her life!? Doubt praying would of saved her! Really annoyed me did that. You would think that after an experience like that you would turn around and think, 'Yes! This is a load of crap!' Thank the lord I do not live in America...because I'd be a really good scam artist "and which lord would that be?  | |||
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" and which lord would that be? "Mister T. | |||
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" and which lord would that be?
Mister T."  | |||
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"Organised religion has been around a lot longer than 2000 years. It seems to be an attempt at making some sense of why we are here and what is our purpose. If you have ever asked those sort of questions then you are probably a bit religious, or maybe spiritual is more palatable. Funny some on here are against religion and yet they seem to worship the gods of money and consumerism "indeed  | |||
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"Organised religion has been around a lot longer than 2000 years. It seems to be an attempt at making some sense of why we are here and what is our purpose. If you have ever asked those sort of questions then you are probably a bit religious, or maybe spiritual is more palatable. Funny some on here are against religion and yet they seem to worship the gods of money and consumerism "Could not have put it better myself - some people are replacing the need to have a spiritual/ religious way of making sense of the world by having these other "Gods" in their lives - and I d argue that following CHristian values may havea more beneficial impact on society than following Lagerfeld or Gok, Jeremy Clarkson or whoever next... | |||
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"Oh the Irony and Hypocrisy.... People that freely choose to enter into the world of swinging questioning the rights of others to freely choose to practise their religion.... " oooo that reminds me ...... | |||
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"Organised religion has been around a lot longer than 2000 years. It seems to be an attempt at making some sense of why we are here and what is our purpose. If you have ever asked those sort of questions then you are probably a bit religious, or maybe spiritual is more palatable. Funny some on here are against religion and yet they seem to worship the gods of money and consumerism "You speak of these gods as though they exist as deities. There are no gods of any description, merely gullible fools who think they exist. The true irony about religion is that those who believe and are proved right won't be able to take the piss out of the non-believers in the afterlife as they won't be there, and if the non-believers are right nobody will be able to take the piss out of anyone as there won't be an afterlife. The Church wins both ways. | |||
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"The onus is upon those who believe to prove that God exists. " I disagree - and again I am putting myself into the camp of believers despite the fact that I am a non believer... Why should anybody prove anything to anybody? We are free to choose what we believe to hold true to make sense of our worlds? | |||
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"The onus is upon those who believe to prove that God exists. I disagree - and again I am putting myself into the camp of believers despite the fact that I am a non believer... Why should anybody prove anything to anybody? We are free to choose what we believe to hold true to make sense of our worlds? " yes, and is it not wonderful that no one can touch that. | |||
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"God moves in mysterious ways. No one ever agrees with me on these forums now its two posts in two days "I did agree with your post earlier - that most people at some point in their lives reflect on the meaning and purpose of being here. And that makes them a a little spiritual... in my world, too | |||
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"The onus is upon those who believe to prove that God exists. I disagree - and again I am putting myself into the camp of believers despite the fact that I am a non believer... Why should anybody prove anything to anybody? We are free to choose what we believe to hold true to make sense of our worlds? yes, and is it not wonderful that no one can touch that. "Absolutely - I do not ever feel the need to persuade anybody to not believe in an afterlife - why would I? Why should I be on that mission? All I ask for is that people have a right to believe in what they choose to believe in and not be mocked or ridiculed would be a bonus | |||
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"Religion was a way for those in power to control the masses back in the day. And still used in less developed areas like Norfolk. It was a way to keep them in check don't steal or you will go to hell. Who where they likely to steal from? The rich. So basically if your hungry and steal money or food although yes you will not be hungry at that point you will however suffer in the after life if you do. Don't steal food you will die hungry but will be rewarded in heaven. It's the same theory with suicide bombers. You will get 72 virgins in heaven if you blow your self up in the name of Allah. personaly give me 72 girls who know what these doing. "will they all get a bit each? | |||
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"The onus is upon those who believe to prove that God exists. I disagree - and again I am putting myself into the camp of believers despite the fact that I am a non believer... Why should anybody prove anything to anybody? We are free to choose what we believe to hold true to make sense of our worlds? " How much thought did you give to the formulation of that second paragraph? Or the essence of what it actually says and it's wider implications ? | |||
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"ah but what if you believe in an afterlife - a sort of progression into another dimension/universe bla bla and it existed. Then you could laugh at all the peeps who deprived themselves and lived guiltily all their lives." even science tells us of different dimensions..thats why I dont discount much possibilities I question peoples beliefs that have a detrimental affect to others..in the case of most religions it appears to be the case where fanatics at the heart go against everthing they claim to believe, often relying on the gullible some people seek desitined paths, others dont..thats the only difference I can see and it would be a bad thing if everyone believed one side was more important than the other there are truly nice decent human beings with religious leanings, just as their are horrible atheist people who dont actually care about anything other than themselves the only thing I think I've learned is that there is no perfect balance, its all an organized chaos- neither can be without the other | |||
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"Religion was a way for those in power to control the masses back in the day. And still used in less developed areas like Norfolk. It was a way to keep them in check don't steal or you will go to hell. Who where they likely to steal from? The rich. So basically if your hungry and steal money or food although yes you will not be hungry at that point you will however suffer in the after life if you do. Don't steal food you will die hungry but will be rewarded in heaven. It's the same theory with suicide bombers. You will get 72 virgins in heaven if you blow your self up in the name of Allah. personaly give me 72 girls who know what these doing. "You are right of course that religion was and contues to be used to control people - and that is perhaps wrong although one could argue that a society based on some morality functions better than one that is based on chaos. Having said that - if religions gives comfort to people, gives them a moral code and something to hold on to, to live by.. why on earth would anybody want to deprive them of this? | |||
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"Organised religion has been around a lot longer than 2000 years. It seems to be an attempt at making some sense of why we are here and what is our purpose. If you have ever asked those sort of questions then you are probably a bit religious, or maybe spiritual is more palatable. Funny some on here are against religion and yet they seem to worship the gods of money and consumerism "What a load of crap, how does that even compare to worshipping some made up deity? Believe me, I'm no fan of capitalism in the slightest, it's a horrible, horrible system but unfortunately it DOES exist and so does money, so this is just rubbish. How can you compare the two? As for the reasons why religions exist, don't be so naive. They are all forms of population control used by rulers for thousands of years, to keep the simple people in check through fear and awe with their made up crap. They even change them over the years to suit their political needs when required. A prime example being, even though its a quite commonly known fact, I wonder how many Church of England believers actually realise that they are following a religion that was created by Henry VIII because he'd fallen out with the Catholic Church? | |||
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"Why do religious people have to prove the existence of god ? Religions are called "faiths" for a good reason. To have faith and believe in a god is just that. It is a matter of faith and belief not an absolute fact. This seems to be a mistake made by believers and non believers alike when arguing about religion. As far as the afterlife goes there is no doubt that there is one, it is an absolute fact. People are made of matter, matter cannot be created or destroyed it can only change form. So all you non believers existed from the beginning of time and when your body dies you will still exist but in a different form or forms. "Yes. Dust and ash ..... not as people. Do rocks have life ? | |||
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"The onus is upon those who believe to prove that God exists. I disagree - and again I am putting myself into the camp of believers despite the fact that I am a non believer... Why should anybody prove anything to anybody? We are free to choose what we believe to hold true to make sense of our worlds? How much thought did you give to the formulation of that second paragraph? Or the essence of what it actually says and it's wider implications ?" Sufficient thought to state that I cannot see any reason why anybody, believer or non believer, needs to justify why they believe what they believe. I am not sure I understand what you are saying? | |||
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"Why do religious people have to prove the existence of god ? Religions are called "faiths" for a good reason. To have faith and believe in a god is just that. It is a matter of faith and belief not an absolute fact. This seems to be a mistake made by believers and non believers alike when arguing about religion. As far as the afterlife goes there is no doubt that there is one, it is an absolute fact. People are made of matter, matter cannot be created or destroyed it can only change form. So all you non believers existed from the beginning of time and when your body dies you will still exist but in a different form or forms.
Yes. Dust and ash ..... not as people.
Do rocks have life ? "ask Brian's Cocks | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 19/02/13 14:41:33]" tch, not meeting ya now then.  | |||
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"The onus is upon those who believe to prove that God exists. I disagree - and again I am putting myself into the camp of believers despite the fact that I am a non believer... Why should anybody prove anything to anybody? We are free to choose what we believe to hold true to make sense of our worlds? How much thought did you give to the formulation of that second paragraph? Or the essence of what it actually says and it's wider implications ?" I believe in genocide. It will be good for my country. | |||
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 M | |||
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"The onus is upon those who believe to prove that God exists. I disagree - and again I am putting myself into the camp of believers despite the fact that I am a non believer... Why should anybody prove anything to anybody? We are free to choose what we believe to hold true to make sense of our worlds? " Amen to that | |||
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"Religion was a way for those in power to control the masses back in the day. And still used in less developed areas like Norfolk. It was a way to keep them in check don't steal or you will go to hell. Who where they likely to steal from? The rich. So basically if your hungry and steal money or food although yes you will not be hungry at that point you will however suffer in the after life if you do. Don't steal food you will die hungry but will be rewarded in heaven. It's the same theory with suicide bombers. You will get 72 virgins in heaven if you blow your self up in the name of Allah. personaly give me 72 girls who know what these doing. "Pmsl at the Norfolk bit  | |||
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"ah but what if you believe in an afterlife - a sort of progression into another dimension/universe bla bla and it existed. Then you could laugh at all the peeps who deprived themselves and lived guiltily all their lives. even science tells us of different dimensions..thats why I dont discount much possibilities I question peoples beliefs that have a detrimental affect to others..in the case of most religions it appears to be the case where fanatics at the heart go against everthing they claim to believe, often relying on the gullible some people seek desitined paths, others dont..thats the only difference I can see and it would be a bad thing if everyone believed one side was more important than the other there are truly nice decent human beings with religious leanings, just as their are horrible atheist people who dont actually care about anything other than themselves the only thing I think I've learned is that there is no perfect balance, its all an organized chaos- neither can be without the other " I, too have a problem with fanaticism - and follow Kant's moral imperative of "Treat others as you would like to be treated" (rough translation admittedly). As such religions and belief systems that use force to make others join in, use acts of terror or intimidation have no place in society. And yes, before I get shot down, I am aware of the crusades and other atrocities that have been carried out in the name of the (catholic) church and the fact other religions havecommitted other atrocities towards man is no justification. | |||
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"How could people worship me if it wasn't organised? They'd be getting the wrong buses to the wrong house, getting times and dates wrong, forgetting my birthday and everything. That's where my PA Miss Smokingrowler comes in handy. She's a wiz at organisation x "Don't be stupid. Mass Consumerism gives me tons of Shiny things on your birthday.I'll never forgt you. xxxx | |||
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"If a person Believes in a religion or a God, and that belief makes them a better person toward there fellow man, then that has to be a good thing right ? It would make no difference too me what religion they are if that is the outcome. But on the flip side you get the twisted versions of a good religion, which promote violence, suffering and death to others, that is the type of religion that needs to be condemned, But to call a good person a fool because of there beliefs that's just not right. This thread has made me sad and disappointed M"Absolutely - we are singing quite literally off a similar hymn sheet | |||
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"If a person Believes in a religion or a God, and that belief makes them a better person toward there fellow man, then that has to be a good thing right ? It would make no difference too me what religion they are if that is the outcome. But on the flip side you get the twisted versions of a good religion, which promote violence, suffering and death to others, that is the type of religion that needs to be condemned, But to call a good person a fool because of there beliefs that's just not right. This thread has made me sad and disappointed M"No one called ANYONE a fool. If they did , show me and I'll stop adding to the thread. | |||
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"Organised religion has been around a lot longer than 2000 years. It seems to be an attempt at making some sense of why we are here and what is our purpose. If you have ever asked those sort of questions then you are probably a bit religious, or maybe spiritual is more palatable. Funny some on here are against religion and yet they seem to worship the gods of money and consumerism
You speak of these gods as though they exist as deities. There are no gods of any description, merely gullible fools who think they exist. The true irony about religion is that those who believe and are proved right won't be able to take the piss out of the non-believers in the afterlife as they won't be there, and if the non-believers are right nobody will be able to take the piss out of anyone as there won't be an afterlife.
The Church wins both ways. "Think the word fools is in there some were! | |||
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"atheist 1: I believe in people aspiring to a better world and living in harmony atheist 2: I couldnt give a toss for others and I dont believe anything has purpose, there are no consequences to any action I do religious person 1: I follow the teachings, take some of it with a pinch of salt, but I believe the greater good of people and I strive to make the world a better place religious person 2: I follow the teachings blindly..I will kill others knowing I was on the righteous path" Roughly speaking... that is how I would see it, too. Either way no need really to attack or mock anybody (I am not referring to the thread, I mean in reality as I have seen this happen on a few occasions and I have stepped in every time) | |||
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"Most religious people are born religious because they are brainwashed from a very early age to grow up to be that way! Many actually believe that all us non-believers are screwed, ruled by the devil and waiting to laugh at us on Judgement day! (Horses mouth that one...more than a few times!) Very little actually choose, and those that do, converts/born again/whatever, usually have issues that relate guilt or complete and utter emptiness and a life without meaning. Maybe even loneliness too. For somebody very down on luck, friends, happiness...religion can be a life saver! But then they are hooked and reeled in for good...not so much of a life saver! I was Christian until I was about 8 and realised it was a load of crap...luckily my parents were of the same opinion (just sent me to a Christian Primary School) Anyway, most other kids parents were not like that...and they'll probably be religious forever and so will their kids and so on and so on. That's how it has gone on for so long! Brainwash and mind control. Suppression of women is the darker side still very much alive. Did anybody else get kinda mad when that little girl from Pakistan who was shot and got treatment here and she decided to thank everybody who prayed for her!?! Don't you think she should of thanked the staff who saved her life!? Doubt praying would of saved her! Really annoyed me did that. You would think that after an experience like that you would turn around and think, 'Yes! This is a load of crap!' Thank the lord I do not live in America...because I'd be a really good scam artist "I was born and raised into a religion but it never really took hold of me and I was bored rigid by it for the first 18 years of my life. Luckily for me, I have an enquiring mind and so I refused to swallow what I was told and have since gone on to have great fun thinking about how the world, the universe and everything in it came into being. I like to keep an open mind and I do believe that there has always been something innate in human beings which makes them look for some kind of higher consciousness upon which to model the nobler versions of themselves. The dark side gets chalked up to the devil and the light side to God/gods. Once this all weaves itself into organised religion, we then have the problem of control and division and suppression etc. As Shakespeare had Hamlet say - 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy ..'. But then in one of Hamlet's lone moments on stage, he muses and says 'how like an angel in apprehension' is the human being. He was tormented by his own thoughts and at that moment, higher consciousness seems like a burden and a curse to him. Questions. Always questions. No-one ever comes back though, to tell us what lies beyond, and unless they do, those questions will always remain as to where we end up or what we're here for in the first place. I'll go with Goethe I think. 'The point of life is life.' Seems a safe bet to me. | |||
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"Organised religion has been around a lot longer than 2000 years. It seems to be an attempt at making some sense of why we are here and what is our purpose. If you have ever asked those sort of questions then you are probably a bit religious, or maybe spiritual is more palatable. Funny some on here are against religion and yet they seem to worship the gods of money and consumerism
You speak of these gods as though they exist as deities. There are no gods of any description, merely gullible fools who think they exist. The true irony about religion is that those who believe and are proved right won't be able to take the piss out of the non-believers in the afterlife as they won't be there, and if the non-believers are right nobody will be able to take the piss out of anyone as there won't be an afterlife.
The Church wins both ways.
Think the word fools is in there some were!"Yes, it was and sadly that is what makes it inflammatory. | |||
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" I'll go with Goethe I think. 'The point of life is life.' Seems a safe bet to me." And Goethe, like Hamlet... wrote (very roughly translated) "there are many more things between heaven and earth that the human mind can explain". | |||
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"Most religious people are born religious because they are brainwashed from a very early age to grow up to be that way! Many actually believe that all us non-believers are screwed, ruled by the devil and waiting to laugh at us on Judgement day! (Horses mouth that one...more than a few times!) Very little actually choose, and those that do, converts/born again/whatever, usually have issues that relate guilt or complete and utter emptiness and a life without meaning. Maybe even loneliness too. For somebody very down on luck, friends, happiness...religion can be a life saver! But then they are hooked and reeled in for good...not so much of a life saver! I was Christian until I was about 8 and realised it was a load of crap...luckily my parents were of the same opinion (just sent me to a Christian Primary School) Anyway, most other kids parents were not like that...and they'll probably be religious forever and so will their kids and so on and so on. That's how it has gone on for so long! Brainwash and mind control. Suppression of women is the darker side still very much alive. Did anybody else get kinda mad when that little girl from Pakistan who was shot and got treatment here and she decided to thank everybody who prayed for her!?! Don't you think she should of thanked the staff who saved her life!? Doubt praying would of saved her! Really annoyed me did that. You would think that after an experience like that you would turn around and think, 'Yes! This is a load of crap!' Thank the lord I do not live in America...because I'd be a really good scam artist "How can you say someone is born religious and then in next sentence day they are brain washed from an early age? Which one is it? | |||
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"Why do religious people have to prove the existence of god ? Religions are called "faiths" for a good reason. To have faith and believe in a god is just that. It is a matter of faith and belief not an absolute fact. This seems to be a mistake made by believers and non believers alike when arguing about religion. As far as the afterlife goes there is no doubt that there is one, it is an absolute fact. People are made of matter, matter cannot be created or destroyed it can only change form. So all you non believers existed from the beginning of time and when your body dies you will still exist but in a different form or forms.
Yes. Dust and ash ..... not as people.
Do rocks have life ?
ask Brian's Cocks"I wouldnt ask brian cox. Basically all he does is confirm what the likes of Lao Tzu already knew 2500 years ago | |||
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"atheist 1: I believe in people aspiring to a better world and living in harmony atheist 2: I couldnt give a toss for others and I dont believe anything has purpose, there are no consequences to any action I do religious person 1: I follow the teachings, take some of it with a pinch of salt, but I believe the greater good of people and I strive to make the world a better place religious person 2: I follow the teachings blindly..I will kill others knowing I was on the righteous path" you forgot agnostics 1 & 2? | |||
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Does anybody else feel this way or am I just an atheist fascist? | |||
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"Im not religious as such but do keep an open mind about it. I wonder how many of the atheists out there wouldn't pray if a family member was really ill. I know I will be praying if that times comes. Whether religion is real or not, it does offer hope to those who believe. " That is another valuable point - how many non-believing people do in times of great anxiety, stress, fear and tragedy "turn" to ehat they believe to be a greater power and it gives them some comfort at that moment in time.... | |||
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"Im not religious as such but do keep an open mind about it. I wonder how many of the atheists out there wouldn't pray if a family member was really ill. I know I will be praying if that times comes. Whether religion is real or not, it does offer hope to those who believe. " I was caught in a strong earthquake some years ago and found myself praying to die quickly and without pain. As it happened I survived but, yes, praying is instinctive. Curious eh? | |||
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"Well I'll be 100% completely honest here, if I find out that someone believes in any religion then I lose quite a lot of respect/trust in them in regards to their decision making, gullibility, vulnerability and therefore I suppose I view them as lesser people. I know I shouldn't but I can't help it
Does anybody else feel this way or am I just an atheist fascist?"no and yes  | |||
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"Most religious people are born religious because they are brainwashed from a very early age to grow up to be that way! Many actually believe that all us non-believers are screwed, ruled by the devil and waiting to laugh at us on Judgement day! (Horses mouth that one...more than a few times!) Very little actually choose, and those that do, converts/born again/whatever, usually have issues that relate guilt or complete and utter emptiness and a life without meaning. Maybe even loneliness too. For somebody very down on luck, friends, happiness...religion can be a life saver! But then they are hooked and reeled in for good...not so much of a life saver! I was Christian until I was about 8 and realised it was a load of crap...luckily my parents were of the same opinion (just sent me to a Christian Primary School) Anyway, most other kids parents were not like that...and they'll probably be religious forever and so will their kids and so on and so on. That's how it has gone on for so long! Brainwash and mind control. Suppression of women is the darker side still very much alive. Did anybody else get kinda mad when that little girl from Pakistan who was shot and got treatment here and she decided to thank everybody who prayed for her!?! Don't you think she should of thanked the staff who saved her life!? Doubt praying would of saved her! Really annoyed me did that. You would think that after an experience like that you would turn around and think, 'Yes! This is a load of crap!' Thank the lord I do not live in America...because I'd be a really good scam artist
I was born and raised into a religion but it never really took hold of me and I was bored rigid by it for the first 18 years of my life. Luckily for me, I have an enquiring mind and so I refused to swallow what I was told and have since gone on to have great fun thinking about how the world, the universe and everything in it came into being. I like to keep an open mind and I do believe that there has always been something innate in human beings which makes them look for some kind of higher consciousness upon which to model the nobler versions of themselves. The dark side gets chalked up to the devil and the light side to God/gods. Once this all weaves itself into organised religion, we then have the problem of control and division and suppression etc. As Shakespeare had Hamlet say - 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy ..'. But then in one of Hamlet's lone moments on stage, he muses and says 'how like an angel in apprehension' is the human being. He was tormented by his own thoughts and at that moment, higher consciousness seems like a burden and a curse to him. Questions. Always questions. No-one ever comes back though, to tell us what lies beyond, and unless they do, those questions will always remain as to where we end up or what we're here for in the first place. I'll go with Goethe I think. 'The point of life is life.' Seems a safe bet to me."Why do people quote Shakespeare ? He was a simple playwright .... The greatest modern philosopher of today says ....... 'Do'h!' | |||
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"Most religious people are born religious because they are brainwashed from a very early age to grow up to be that way! Many actually believe that all us non-believers are screwed, ruled by the devil and waiting to laugh at us on Judgement day! (Horses mouth that one...more than a few times!) Very little actually choose, and those that do, converts/born again/whatever, usually have issues that relate guilt or complete and utter emptiness and a life without meaning. Maybe even loneliness too. For somebody very down on luck, friends, happiness...religion can be a life saver! But then they are hooked and reeled in for good...not so much of a life saver! I was Christian until I was about 8 and realised it was a load of crap...luckily my parents were of the same opinion (just sent me to a Christian Primary School) Anyway, most other kids parents were not like that...and they'll probably be religious forever and so will their kids and so on and so on. That's how it has gone on for so long! Brainwash and mind control. Suppression of women is the darker side still very much alive. Did anybody else get kinda mad when that little girl from Pakistan who was shot and got treatment here and she decided to thank everybody who prayed for her!?! Don't you think she should of thanked the staff who saved her life!? Doubt praying would of saved her! Really annoyed me did that. You would think that after an experience like that you would turn around and think, 'Yes! This is a load of crap!' Thank the lord I do not live in America...because I'd be a really good scam artist
I was born and raised into a religion but it never really took hold of me and I was bored rigid by it for the first 18 years of my life. Luckily for me, I have an enquiring mind and so I refused to swallow what I was told and have since gone on to have great fun thinking about how the world, the universe and everything in it came into being. I like to keep an open mind and I do believe that there has always been something innate in human beings which makes them look for some kind of higher consciousness upon which to model the nobler versions of themselves. The dark side gets chalked up to the devil and the light side to God/gods. Once this all weaves itself into organised religion, we then have the problem of control and division and suppression etc. As Shakespeare had Hamlet say - 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy ..'. But then in one of Hamlet's lone moments on stage, he muses and says 'how like an angel in apprehension' is the human being. He was tormented by his own thoughts and at that moment, higher consciousness seems like a burden and a curse to him. Questions. Always questions. No-one ever comes back though, to tell us what lies beyond, and unless they do, those questions will always remain as to where we end up or what we're here for in the first place. I'll go with Goethe I think. 'The point of life is life.' Seems a safe bet to me.
Why do people quote Shakespeare ? He was a simple playwright ....
The greatest modern philosopher of today says ....... 'Do'h!' "The word fools is up there. | |||
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"Most religious people are born religious because they are brainwashed from a very early age to grow up to be that way! Many actually believe that all us non-believers are screwed, ruled by the devil and waiting to laugh at us on Judgement day! (Horses mouth that one...more than a few times!) Very little actually choose, and those that do, converts/born again/whatever, usually have issues that relate guilt or complete and utter emptiness and a life without meaning. Maybe even loneliness too. For somebody very down on luck, friends, happiness...religion can be a life saver! But then they are hooked and reeled in for good...not so much of a life saver! I was Christian until I was about 8 and realised it was a load of crap...luckily my parents were of the same opinion (just sent me to a Christian Primary School) Anyway, most other kids parents were not like that...and they'll probably be religious forever and so will their kids and so on and so on. That's how it has gone on for so long! Brainwash and mind control. Suppression of women is the darker side still very much alive. Did anybody else get kinda mad when that little girl from Pakistan who was shot and got treatment here and she decided to thank everybody who prayed for her!?! Don't you think she should of thanked the staff who saved her life!? Doubt praying would of saved her! Really annoyed me did that. You would think that after an experience like that you would turn around and think, 'Yes! This is a load of crap!' Thank the lord I do not live in America...because I'd be a really good scam artist
I was born and raised into a religion but it never really took hold of me and I was bored rigid by it for the first 18 years of my life. Luckily for me, I have an enquiring mind and so I refused to swallow what I was told and have since gone on to have great fun thinking about how the world, the universe and everything in it came into being. I like to keep an open mind and I do believe that there has always been something innate in human beings which makes them look for some kind of higher consciousness upon which to model the nobler versions of themselves. The dark side gets chalked up to the devil and the light side to God/gods. Once this all weaves itself into organised religion, we then have the problem of control and division and suppression etc. As Shakespeare had Hamlet say - 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy ..'. But then in one of Hamlet's lone moments on stage, he muses and says 'how like an angel in apprehension' is the human being. He was tormented by his own thoughts and at that moment, higher consciousness seems like a burden and a curse to him. Questions. Always questions. No-one ever comes back though, to tell us what lies beyond, and unless they do, those questions will always remain as to where we end up or what we're here for in the first place. I'll go with Goethe I think. 'The point of life is life.' Seems a safe bet to me.
Why do people quote Shakespeare ? He was a simple playwright ....
The greatest modern philosopher of today says ....... 'Do'h!' "and he took the piss outa folks a lot of the time. like me reposting this epic post. | |||
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"Im not religious as such but do keep an open mind about it. I wonder how many of the atheists out there wouldn't pray if a family member was really ill. I know I will be praying if that times comes. Whether religion is real or not, it does offer hope to those who believe. I was caught in a strong earthquake some years ago and found myself praying to die quickly and without pain. As it happened I survived but, yes, praying is instinctive. Curious eh?" Yep and shows just how ineffective it obviously is. It's called clutching at straws | |||
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"Organised religion has been around a lot longer than 2000 years. It seems to be an attempt at making some sense of why we are here and what is our purpose. If you have ever asked those sort of questions then you are probably a bit religious, or maybe spiritual is more palatable. Funny some on here are against religion and yet they seem to worship the gods of money and consumerism
You speak of these gods as though they exist as deities. There are no gods of any description, merely gullible fools who think they exist. The true irony about religion is that those who believe and are proved right won't be able to take the piss out of the non-believers in the afterlife as they won't be there, and if the non-believers are right nobody will be able to take the piss out of anyone as there won't be an afterlife.
The Church wins both ways.
Think the word fools is in there some were!"Undeniably. Roger.... | |||
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"Im not religious as such but do keep an open mind about it. I wonder how many of the atheists out there wouldn't pray if a family member was really ill. I know I will be praying if that times comes. Whether religion is real or not, it does offer hope to those who believe. I was caught in a strong earthquake some years ago and found myself praying to die quickly and without pain. As it happened I survived but, yes, praying is instinctive. Curious eh? Yep and shows just how ineffective it obviously is. It's called clutching at straws" hardly think they would help in an earthquake. tch | |||
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"Im not religious as such but do keep an open mind about it. I wonder how many of the atheists out there wouldn't pray if a family member was really ill. I know I will be praying if that times comes. Whether religion is real or not, it does offer hope to those who believe. I was caught in a strong earthquake some years ago and found myself praying to die quickly and without pain. As it happened I survived but, yes, praying is instinctive. Curious eh?" And the main thing for me would be... if it helped you at that moment in time - then I d say it was worth it. Irrespective of what other people make of religion. | |||
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"atheist 1: I believe in people aspiring to a better world and living in harmony atheist 2: I couldnt give a toss for others and I dont believe anything has purpose, there are no consequences to any action I do religious person 1: I follow the teachings, take some of it with a pinch of salt, but I believe the greater good of people and I strive to make the world a better place religious person 2: I follow the teachings blindly..I will kill others knowing I was on the righteous path you forgot agnostics 1 & 2? "thatll be me then lol- of course they can still be arseholes..and maybe not able to pigeonhole into any extreme *admit I didnt know what agnostic meant..I'me not particularly concerned about rationalizing the human condition | |||
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"atheist 1: I believe in people aspiring to a better world and living in harmony atheist 2: I couldnt give a toss for others and I dont believe anything has purpose, there are no consequences to any action I do religious person 1: I follow the teachings, take some of it with a pinch of salt, but I believe the greater good of people and I strive to make the world a better place religious person 2: I follow the teachings blindly..I will kill others knowing I was on the righteous path you forgot agnostics 1 & 2?
thatll be me then lol- of course they can still be arseholes..and maybe not able to pigeonhole into any extreme
*admit I didnt know what agnostic meant..I'me not particularly concerned about rationalizing the human condition"bit of an askhole mesel.  | |||
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"Im not religious as such but do keep an open mind about it. I wonder how many of the atheists out there wouldn't pray if a family member was really ill. I know I will be praying if that times comes. Whether religion is real or not, it does offer hope to those who believe. I was caught in a strong earthquake some years ago and found myself praying to die quickly and without pain. As it happened I survived but, yes, praying is instinctive. Curious eh? Yep and shows just how ineffective it obviously is. It's called clutching at straws hardly think they would help in an earthquake. tch" It all depends on how good your lungs are, looking at yours you ought to be able to blow in the straws and jet propel yourself away from danger | |||
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"Well I'll be 100% completely honest here, if I find out that someone believes in any religion then I lose quite a lot of respect/trust in them in regards to their decision making, gullibility, vulnerability and therefore I suppose I view them as lesser people. I know I shouldn't but I can't help it
Does anybody else feel this way or am I just an atheist fascist?"Probably! | |||
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x | |||
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"I' m an aetheist, asked too many awkward questions in Sunday school and was asked to leave, and then did the same in school RE lessons. I wasn't deliberately awkward, I just saw gaping holes in the story being told and wanted answers. I try to live in a Christian manner as much as life and those I come into contact with will let me, but I don't force my opinion of this on others, and prefer they respect that and reciprocate. Many organised religions seem to me to be a form of control, and I guess I prefer to be a free spirit. " The Buddha would agree with you asking questions, he encouraged people to not be blind followers but to ask questions investigate and discover the truth for themselves. | |||
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"From an existentialist point of view, does religion really matter? "Being a semi existentialist(yes, they do come in halves) I d agree | |||
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"My thinking on things are always pretty basic ( believe it or not ) All of us super intelligent, well educated and very privileged in the majority of the western world are totally turning our backs on organised religions as we see the faults and lack of "science" behind it. Having spent a good deal of my life working in 3rd world countries where the organised religion is a common and respected thing. Guess which people are happiest. God works in mysterious ways and so do I x " | |||
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"I' m an aetheist, asked too many awkward questions in Sunday school and was asked to leave, and then did the same in school RE lessons. I wasn't deliberately awkward, I just saw gaping holes in the story being told and wanted answers. I try to live in a Christian manner as much as life and those I come into contact with will let me, but I don't force my opinion of this on others, and prefer they respect that and reciprocate. Many organised religions seem to me to be a form of control, and I guess I prefer to be a free spirit. "
I agree about control and gaping holes in all religious stories. But if people have "faith" and want to believe in a greater being, an afterlife etc then I don't have a problem with it. Truth is there are plenty of unexplained gaps in scientific teaching as well. The vast majority of "religious" people are good citizens, live life by decent morals and don't do me any harm. | |||
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"I' m an aetheist, asked too many awkward questions in Sunday school and was asked to leave, and then did the same in school RE lessons. I wasn't deliberately awkward, I just saw gaping holes in the story being told and wanted answers. I try to live in a Christian manner as much as life and those I come into contact with will let me, but I don't force my opinion of this on others, and prefer they respect that and reciprocate. Many organised religions seem to me to be a form of control, and I guess I prefer to be a free spirit. " I really like this way of looking at it... I try to live in a Christian manner as much as life and those I come into contact with will let me, but I don't force my opinion of this on others, and prefer they respect that and reciprocate. | |||
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"My thinking on things are always pretty basic ( believe it or not ) All of us super intelligent, well educated and very privileged in the majority of the western world are totally turning our backs on organised religions as we see the faults and lack of "science" behind it. Having spent a good deal of my life working in 3rd world countries where the organised religion is a common and respected thing. Guess which people are happiest. God works in mysterious ways and so do I x "Good point! | |||
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"I' m an aetheist, asked too many awkward questions in Sunday school and was asked to leave, and then did the same in school RE lessons. I wasn't deliberately awkward, I just saw gaping holes in the story being told and wanted answers. I try to live in a Christian manner as much as life and those I come into contact with will let me, but I don't force my opinion of this on others, and prefer they respect that and reciprocate. Many organised religions seem to me to be a form of control, and I guess I prefer to be a free spirit. I really like this way of looking at it... I try to live in a Christian manner as much as life and those I come into contact with will let me, but I don't force my opinion of this on others, and prefer they respect that and reciprocate. "Sorry Southwalescouple. looks as if I plagiarised you - I meant to quote you but was too rushed | |||
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"I don't get it, or rather I do. Simply put organised religion is an attempt by groups to grab political and other forms of power, what confuses the hell out of me is why people sign up? It's not real you know.... " It doesn't really matter what we think its what those who believe think. But I would think some go into religion not really believing but looking for personal power. | |||
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"If a person Believes in a religion or a God, and that belief makes them a better person toward there fellow man, then that has to be a good thing right ? It would make no difference too me what religion they are if that is the outcome. But on the flip side you get the twisted versions of a good religion, which promote violence, suffering and death to others, that is the type of religion that needs to be condemned, But to call a good person a fool because of there beliefs that's just not right. This thread has made me sad and disappointed M
No one called ANYONE a fool.
If they did , show me and I'll stop adding to the thread."The term gullible fools was used. | |||
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"I've been considering forming a religious cult for quite some time. There are so many gullible people out there that it's surely got to be easier and more financially rewarding than working!" Oooo! Oooo! I'm in! How much do you want? | |||
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"I've been considering forming a religious cult for quite some time. There are so many gullible people out there that it's surely got to be easier and more financially rewarding than working!" If you set it up as a charity too, you can cash in twice. | |||
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" I would say too that I consider Richard Dawkins to be someway towards organised faith, albeit organised unfaith - any form of preaching that you have all the answers doesn't seem correct to me." Are you thinking of Der Gotteswahn? | |||
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" .......I try to live in a Christian manner as much as life and those I come into contact with will let me, but I don't force my opinion of this on others, and prefer they respect that and reciprocate. "Do you try to live in a 'Christian' manner 'cos it's Christian or because it's a lifestyle which suits you? The basic tenets of Christianity aren't necessarily a bad way to live but there's absolutely no reason get get dragged down by the religious woo-woo. | |||
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"I don't have a lot of time for religions but I'm open minded to the absolute possibility that there is more to life (and possibly beyond) than we understand - its arrogant and narrow minded to state otherwise. I would say too that I consider Richard Dawkins to be someway towards organised faith, albeit organised unfaith - any form of preaching that you have all the answers doesn't seem correct to me." Dawkins is complete dork too. In fact reading my posts back, I hope I haven't let my misanthropy out of the bag | |||
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" ............ Dawkins is complete dork too. In fact reading my posts back, I hope I haven't let my misanthropy out of the bag "Dork? Dork must mean something different when you live. Disagree with him by all means but he's one of the best thinkers in the UK. | |||
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" ............ Dawkins is complete dork too. In fact reading my posts back, I hope I haven't let my misanthropy out of the bag
Dork? Dork must mean something different when you live.
Disagree with him by all means but he's one of the best thinkers in the UK."I'm not saying I disagree with him, he just comes across as a smug dick which winds me up. He'd be ok if he stuck to writing and kept his gob shut | |||
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" ............ Dawkins is complete dork too. In fact reading my posts back, I hope I haven't let my misanthropy out of the bag
Dork? Dork must mean something different when you live.
Disagree with him by all means but he's one of the best thinkers in the UK.
I'm not saying I disagree with him, he just comes across as a smug dick which winds me up. He'd be ok if he stuck to writing and kept his gob shut "If I were that clever, I'd probably come across as a smug dick too - and I wouldn't give a monkeys | |||
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" ............ Dawkins is complete dork too. In fact reading my posts back, I hope I haven't let my misanthropy out of the bag
Dork? Dork must mean something different when you live.
Disagree with him by all means but he's one of the best thinkers in the UK.
I'm not saying I disagree with him, he just comes across as a smug dick which winds me up. He'd be ok if he stuck to writing and kept his gob shut
If I were that clever, I'd probably come across as a smug dick too - and I wouldn't give a monkeys "Haha I don't think his monotone voice helps, it really grates on me. I bought The God Delusion on audiobook ages ago and after listening to him and his bird's voices for about 3 chapters I was beginning to contemplate finding The Lord just to escape their voices | |||
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" ............ Dawkins is complete dork too. In fact reading my posts back, I hope I haven't let my misanthropy out of the bag
Dork? Dork must mean something different when you live.
Disagree with him by all means but he's one of the best thinkers in the UK.
I'm not saying I disagree with him, he just comes across as a smug dick which winds me up. He'd be ok if he stuck to writing and kept his gob shut
If I were that clever, I'd probably come across as a smug dick too - and I wouldn't give a monkeys "The Buddha warned against to much cleverness | |||
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" I would say too that I consider Richard Dawkins to be someway towards organised faith, albeit organised unfaith - any form of preaching that you have all the answers doesn't seem correct to me. Are you thinking of Der Gotteswahn? "Indeed - some people use it in a way not dissimilar from Christian missionaries. I don't believe in a religion.. I also don't believe in atheism | |||
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"Dawkins is complete dork too. In fact reading my posts back, I hope I haven't let my misanthropy out of the bag "A complete Dawk perhaps? | |||
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"Dawkins is complete dork too. In fact reading my posts back, I hope I haven't let my misanthropy out of the bag
A complete Dawk perhaps?"Well that is the reason I used that word | |||
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" I would say too that I consider Richard Dawkins to be someway towards organised faith, albeit organised unfaith - any form of preaching that you have all the answers doesn't seem correct to me. Are you thinking of Der Gotteswahn?
Indeed - some people use it in a way not dissimilar from Christian missionaries.
I don't believe in a religion.. I also don't believe in atheism"As arbguably not having a religion could (and is by some) seen as another form of religion | |||
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" ............ Dawkins is complete dork too. In fact reading my posts back, I hope I haven't let my misanthropy out of the bag
Dork? Dork must mean something different when you live.
Disagree with him by all means but he's one of the best thinkers in the UK."I do not agree with everything Richard Dawkins postulates - but it has to be recognised that he is indeed one of the well respected thinkers today. You need some knowledge of the subject and the predisposition to understand him and his concepts and that is not easy for everybody. | |||
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"If you study evolutionary science cosmology anthrapology thermo dynamics you will have no choice but to come to the conclusion that the universerse is billions of years old and the earth 4 and a half million years old. The creationists will refute this by there estimation that the earth is only 6 to 7 thousand years old. I until recently thouhgt that creation was such nonsense that learned proffessorial charistians had long abandoned it as merely symbolic mythology. Having made recent studies i am wrong..there is still a huge movement extholing the autenticity of creationism especially in america. Therefore there was an adam and eve a great flood where thousands of species formed an orderly queue to get on a ship that must have been the size of the qe2 to accomadate them even though building a ship of that size would have been impossible 6 thousand years ago. Only 8 people survived the flood...not enough to repopulate the earth . Oh and dinosaurs cohabited the planet with man and some survive today. I can go on and on documenting the nonsense. The reason the redneck evangelist fanatics refuse to end there self inflicted intellectual suicide is that jesus in scripture endorsed genisis as historical fact rendering him a fraud. I am not an atheist and i believe intelligent idesign is a possibility and it is a sorry individual who decrys another there beliefs. For all its sins and atrocities religion stops us sliding into a spiritualistic empty abyss..would you get upset about a child believing in santa claus" This is what I have been trying to say, perhaps you said it better than me. It does not hurt anybody if people believe anymore than it hurts anybody when people choose a different lifestyle, different diet, different sexual practices... the list goes on. | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............." It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy." You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat" | |||
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"You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat" "I can see the whole thing snowballing. | |||
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"You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat"
I can see the whole thing snowballing."Thought that was a term from the urban rather than spiritual dictionary | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy." point at something invisible?...make sense man | |||
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"You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat"
I can see the whole thing snowballing.Thought that was a term from the urban rather than spiritual dictionary"I'll drink to that | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man "Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible? | |||
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"You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat"
I can see the whole thing snowballing.Thought that was a term from the urban rather than spiritual dictionary
I'll drink to that "With said drink in hand... can we agree or disagree to point at something invisible? I really MUST know as I am currently ina state of not knowing and this drives me (even more) insane | |||
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"You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat"
I can see the whole thing snowballing."invisible doent mean something isnt there..I cant see a black hole...yet they appear to exist by all given scientific accounts whether or not wishing to believe in something that isnt existing in our feiild of view/grasp...is like saying wifi doesnt exist the view that there cant be anything in a higher evolved state than humans must be one of the silliest arguments Ive heard..and thats just working on the mathematics alone! | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible? "Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think ) | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible? "of course u can..if u eco-locate it...its not in a different dimension lol | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )"it still has mass therefore is there... | |||
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"You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat"
I can see the whole thing snowballing.
invisible doent mean something isnt there..I cant see a black hole...yet they appear to exist by all given scientific accounts
whether or not wishing to believe in something that isnt existing in our feiild of view/grasp...is like saying wifi doesnt exist
the view that there cant be anything in a higher evolved state than humans must be one of the silliest arguments Ive heard..and thats just working on the mathematics alone!"I am curious, serious question again, can you point at something that does not exist? (Not talking deity now, just anything?) | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there..."But if it has mass can you see it? | |||
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"You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat"
I can see the whole thing snowballing.Thought that was a term from the urban rather than spiritual dictionary
I'll drink to that
With said drink in hand... can we agree or disagree to point at something invisible? I really MUST know as I am currently ina state of not knowing and this drives me (even more) insane "It isn't pointing at something invisible, it's pointing out that something is invisible. You can, however, point to where an invisible object is predicted to be. | |||
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"You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat"
I can see the whole thing snowballing.
invisible doent mean something isnt there..I cant see a black hole...yet they appear to exist by all given scientific accounts
whether or not wishing to believe in something that isnt existing in our feiild of view/grasp...is like saying wifi doesnt exist
the view that there cant be anything in a higher evolved state than humans must be one of the silliest arguments Ive heard..and thats just working on the mathematics alone!I am curious, serious question again, can you point at something that does not exist? (Not talking deity now, just anything?)"I could make something up in my head and point at it...whether I choose it to be real may be a product of my sanity or lack of- nobody can actually say it does not exist 100% can they? | |||
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"You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat"
I can see the whole thing snowballing.
invisible doent mean something isnt there..I cant see a black hole...yet they appear to exist by all given scientific accounts
whether or not wishing to believe in something that isnt existing in our feiild of view/grasp...is like saying wifi doesnt exist
the view that there cant be anything in a higher evolved state than humans must be one of the silliest arguments Ive heard..and thats just working on the mathematics alone!I am curious, serious question again, can you point at something that does not exist? (Not talking deity now, just anything?)
I could make something up in my head and point at it...whether I choose it to be real may be a product of my sanity or lack of- nobody can actually say it does not exist 100% can they?"Yep, I d go along with that statement. | |||
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". it still has mass therefore is there... But if it has mass can you see it? " If it has mass, does that leave it in a state of grace? | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it? "not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology"And of course, some things can be proved/ disproved mathematically and we can never "see, feel, touch" the reality of it. | |||
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"You are going to get deity status yourself ... titled "devil's advocat"
I can see the whole thing snowballing.
invisible doent mean something isnt there..I cant see a black hole...yet they appear to exist by all given scientific accounts
whether or not wishing to believe in something that isnt existing in our feiild of view/grasp...is like saying wifi doesnt exist
the view that there cant be anything in a higher evolved state than humans must be one of the silliest arguments Ive heard..and thats just working on the mathematics alone!I am curious, serious question again, can you point at something that does not exist? (Not talking deity now, just anything?)"Nearly!..Quantum Mechanics..particles at quantum levels can be measured and observed for position and momentum, but not simultaneously. | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology
And of course, some things can be proved/ disproved mathematically and we can never "see, feel, touch" the reality of it."well from weird theories, sciencefiction etc...we have uncovered many things...some we take for granted in everyday life...some may shape our next big jump.. getting back to the preposterous idea of sky-faries- dont discount it... they might not be those in books, they might be something rather unimaginable based on the diversity we have on one planet alone | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology"So we can't point at it only in the general direction of it or at the stuff around it | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology
So we can't point at it only in the general direction of it or at the stuff around it "of course u can point AT it, u just cant see it...its sorta like working out where ur pool ball will go after u take the shot.. | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology
So we can't point at it only in the general direction of it or at the stuff around it
of course u can point AT it, u just cant see it...its sorta like working out where ur pool ball will go after u take the shot.."So how do you know your pointing at it if you can't see it ? | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology
So we can't point at it only in the general direction of it or at the stuff around it
of course u can point AT it, u just cant see it...its sorta like working out where ur pool ball will go after u take the shot..
So how do you know your pointing at it if you can't see it ?"by working out the momentum of the objects attracted by it...via gravity | |||
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". it still has mass therefore is there... But if it has mass can you see it? If it has mass, does that leave it in a state of grace?" My ass has too much mass, leaving it in more of a state if 'dis'grace
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". it still has mass therefore is there... But if it has mass can you see it? If it has mass, does that leave it in a state of grace? My ass has too much mass, leaving it in more of a state if 'dis'grace
"antigravity for my cock...can i ride it! | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology
So we can't point at it only in the general direction of it or at the stuff around it
of course u can point AT it, u just cant see it...its sorta like working out where ur pool ball will go after u take the shot..
So how do you know your pointing at it if you can't see it ?
by working out the momentum of the objects attracted by it...via gravity"But you still can't see it | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology
So we can't point at it only in the general direction of it or at the stuff around it
of course u can point AT it, u just cant see it...its sorta like working out where ur pool ball will go after u take the shot..
So how do you know your pointing at it if you can't see it ?
by working out the momentum of the objects attracted by it...via gravity
But you still can't see it"I never said u can.. | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy." disagree, if thats what they believe then tbh i dont actually care.. your perhaps preaching to the unconverted.. | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology
So we can't point at it only in the general direction of it or at the stuff around it
of course u can point AT it, u just cant see it...its sorta like working out where ur pool ball will go after u take the shot..
So how do you know your pointing at it if you can't see it ?
by working out the momentum of the objects attracted by it...via gravity
But you still can't see it
I never said u can.."No but the start of this chat was can you point at something invisible | |||
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" And of course, some things can be proved/ disproved mathematically and we can never "see, feel, touch" the reality of it." This reminds me of the thing that it's impossible to draw an 'alien' because by definition everything about them is alien to us. | |||
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"The onus is upon those who believe to prove that God exists. I disagree - and again I am putting myself into the camp of believers despite the fact that I am a non believer... Why should anybody prove anything to anybody? We are free to choose what we believe to hold true to make sense of our worlds? " | |||
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"The onus is upon those who believe to prove that God exists. I disagree - and again I am putting myself into the camp of believers despite the fact that I am a non believer... Why should anybody prove anything to anybody? We are free to choose what we believe to hold true to make sense of our worlds? "It's not about proving anything to someone else. It is, or ought to be, about providing proof to yourself. In the absence of proof, all there is is belief and you can kid yourself till the cows turn into horses and appear in burgers - it's still bollox. | |||
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" And of course, some things can be proved/ disproved mathematically and we can never "see, feel, touch" the reality of it. This reminds me of the thing that it's impossible to draw an 'alien' because by definition everything about them is alien to us." strictly speaking we are all alien. | |||
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" .......I try to live in a Christian manner as much as life and those I come into contact with will let me, but I don't force my opinion of this on others, and prefer they respect that and reciprocate.
Do you try to live in a 'Christian' manner 'cos it's Christian or because it's a lifestyle which suits you?
The basic tenets of Christianity aren't necessarily a bad way to live but there's absolutely no reason get get dragged down by the religious woo-woo."I use the word Christian to mean that I try to live an honest life, and treat others with respect, not always easy and I am a flawed individual. Although I am an atheist, something happened to me ( see " A tribute to Tim" thread) which rocked my world, and now although not religious, I have a more open mind to the possibility that there is "something" out there. | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology
So we can't point at it only in the general direction of it or at the stuff around it
of course u can point AT it, u just cant see it...its sorta like working out where ur pool ball will go after u take the shot..
So how do you know your pointing at it if you can't see it ?
by working out the momentum of the objects attracted by it...via gravity
But you still can't see it
I never said u can..
No but the start of this chat was can you point at something invisible "observation is not limited to the visual field..I dunno why u appear not to grasp that... | |||
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"if folk wish to believe in deities etc then thats fine by me.. .............. It doesn't sound quite so fine when you point out a diety is just an invisible sky-fairy. point at something invisible?...make sense man Jeeze that is another and entirely different philosophical topic. Can one point at something invisible?
Would say no because if you can point at it it must be visible ( I think )
it still has mass therefore is there...
But if it has mass can you see it?
not if its invisible lol..tahts why we cant see a black hole..just the stuff around it, or the emitting radiation via technology
So we can't point at it only in the general direction of it or at the stuff around it
of course u can point AT it, u just cant see it...its sorta like working out where ur pool ball will go after u take the shot..
So how do you know your pointing at it if you can't see it ?
by working out the momentum of the objects attracted by it...via gravity
But you still can't see it
I never said u can..
No but the start of this chat was can you point at something invisible
observation is not limited to the visual field..I dunno why u appear not to grasp that..."Meaning of the word observe To look at,to examine, to see So what part am I not grasping ? | |||
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"Meaning of the word observe To look at,to examine, to see So what part am I not grasping ?" The wider definition?
How could you prove it's not possible to point at something you can't sense? (even if by chance) | |||
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"The onus is upon those who believe to prove that God exists. I disagree - and again I am putting myself into the camp of believers despite the fact that I am a non believer... Why should anybody prove anything to anybody? We are free to choose what we believe to hold true to make sense of our worlds?
It's not about proving anything to someone else. It is, or ought to be, about providing proof to yourself.
In the absence of proof, all there is is belief and you can kid yourself till the cows turn into horses and appear in burgers - it's still bollox."The mere definition of "believing" is thae assumption that something holds true but you cannot prove it. I probably di not express myself well..I meant if I wanted to believe something (that ultimately I could not prove or disprove) then that is my choice and I would not need anybody's approval, neither would anybody's disapproval or mockery stop me. | |||
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"Can a blind person point at an object ?" Well erm yes! Obviously. | |||
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"Can a blind person point at an object ?" Most blind people have some form of vision but suppose they did not - they can point at where they believe the object is - if that is inaccurate then that is because of their failing eyesight but not because the object is not there.... I think? | |||
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"Simply deciding to believe something does not make it so." disagree, to the 'believer's' it does.. | |||
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"Can a blind person point at an object ? Well erm yes! Obviously. " Obvious to who ? | |||
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"Meaning of the word observe To look at,to examine, to see So what part am I not grasping ? The wider definition?
How could you prove it's not possible to point at something you can't sense? (even if by chance)"Sometimes we sense something that isn't there. We can only point a hundred percent at something we can see | |||
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"Simply deciding to believe something does not make it so. disagree, to the 'believer's' it does.. " A belief is not a fact. Your statement does not counteract mine. Simply believing something exists does not make it exist. | |||
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"Simply deciding to believe something does not make it so. disagree, to the 'believer's' it does.. " Indeed and in this case that is all that matters. I would not care if other people do not share my beliefs. | |||
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"Can a blind person point at an object ?Most blind people have some form of vision but suppose they did not - they can point at where they believe the object is - if that is inaccurate then that is because of their failing eyesight but not because the object is not there.... I think?" The simple definition of blind IS unable to see / without sight | |||
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"Can a blind person point at an object ? Well erm yes! Obviously. Obvious to who ?" They can point at it if they know its there but if you where to say put them in a strange room and ask them to point at say the light switch how could they? | |||
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"Simply deciding to believe something does not make it so. disagree, to the 'believer's' it does.. A belief is not a fact. Your statement does not counteract mine. Simply believing something exists does not make it exist. " A belief that something exists/ holds true is not a fact - neither is its opposite. Believing something MAY mean it is true in absolute terms but it does not matter to the believer if other people dispute this. | |||
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"Simply deciding to believe something does not make it so. disagree, to the 'believer's' it does.. A belief is not a fact. Your statement does not counteract mine. Simply believing something exists does not make it exist. " again i disagree.. to those that 'believe' the rituals and traditions are very real.. even the misguided ones who blow themselves up believed in their own religion.. so whilst to myself and also other none believers, these things are not fact.. to those who do etc etc... | |||
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"Can a blind person point at an object ?Most blind people have some form of vision but suppose they did not - they can point at where they believe the object is - if that is inaccurate then that is because of their failing eyesight but not because the object is not there.... I think? The simple definition of blind IS unable to see / without sight " Definition of blind is not about not seeing anything - in fact most registered blind people do have some albeit severely impaired vision. | |||
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"Can a blind person point at an object ? Well erm yes! Obviously. Obvious to who ? They can point at it if they know its there but if you where to say put them in a strange room and ask them to point at say the light switch how could they? " Whether they know it's there or not is irrelevant. If they CAN point, it is therefore possible they MAY be able to point at something. That may be by chance or by design, but it's still POSSIBLE that they can. | |||
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"Oh the Irony and Hypocrisy.... People that freely choose to enter into the world of swinging questioning the rights of others to freely choose to practise their religion.... "
There are a lot of people who find comfort in religion, organised or not.
I heard a ood saying the other day
" Those that on't hear the music, think that those who dance are insane"
There are enough people who don't hear the swinging music, maybe those on here who critisise religion don't here that music!! | |||
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"Simply deciding to believe something does not make it so. disagree, to the 'believer's' it does.. A belief is not a fact. Your statement does not counteract mine. Simply believing something exists does not make it exist. again i disagree.. to those that 'believe' the rituals and traditions are very real.. even the misguided ones who blow themselves up believed in their own religion.. so whilst to myself and also other none believers, these things are not fact.. to those who do etc etc..." I hear what you are saying. I understand what you are saying. I can only repeat.... Simply because someone believes something does not make that something a fact or a truth or real. | |||
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"Sightless is having a maximal visual accuity of the better eye after correction of 1/10th of normal vision or less - equates over 20/200 or less on the Snellen test. " that is important in terms of defining legal blindness, but it can also relate to the degree of peripheral vision as with macular degeneration ,i think it is anything below 20 deg of normality is classed as blindness. | |||
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Here's an idea & i'll leave it to all you guys & girls to decide what you wish to do.
If someone believes in a religion & as long as they dont shove it down your throat why not show some respect and accept that it is thier belief. Even if you don't believe in a god or higher entity does it hurt that much to RESPECT someone elses beliefs?
Oh and just an after thought if you say god doesn't exist and keep telling a religous believer that its wrong and there is no god then whats the difference between you and the religous nuts who force thier views on to others??? | |||
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"Consider this for me. A man is in a room. Someone he trusts tells him that if he leaves the room he will be shot by the sniper outside the door. The man never leaves the room for fear of being shot. The truth is that there is no sniper behind the door. I accept that to the man that believed there was a sniper the sniper was VERY real in his head. None the less.... the sniper was not a universal truth or a fact or indeed existent. " And yet the faith was real. Now could you prove that another sniper would not have come along in the meantime and have been outside at the time had they happened to take the chance to check? | |||
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"This topic is sooooo topsy turvey
Here's an idea & i'll leave it to all you guys & girls to decide what you wish to do.
If someone believes in a religion & as long as they dont shove it down your throat why not show some respect and accept that it is thier belief. Even if you don't believe in a god or higher entity does it hurt that much to RESPECT someone elses beliefs?
Oh and just an after thought if you say god doesn't exist and keep telling a religous believer that its wrong and there is no god then whats the difference between you and the religous nuts who force thier views on to others??? "I could not have worded this better myself. At the end of the day it is about respect as much as anything. | |||
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"This topic is sooooo topsy turvey
Here's an idea & i'll leave it to all you guys & girls to decide what you wish to do.
If someone believes in a religion & as long as they dont shove it down your throat why not show some respect and accept that it is thier belief. Even if you don't believe in a god or higher entity does it hurt that much to RESPECT someone elses beliefs?
Oh and just an after thought if you say god doesn't exist and keep telling a religous believer that its wrong and there is no god then whats the difference between you and the religous nuts who force thier views on to others??? " class post ! | |||
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"Consider this for me. A man is in a room. Someone he trusts tells him that if he leaves the room he will be shot by the sniper outside the door. The man never leaves the room for fear of being shot. The truth is that there is no sniper behind the door. I accept that to the man that believed there was a sniper the sniper was VERY real in his head. None the less.... the sniper was not a universal truth or a fact or indeed existent. And yet the faith was real. Now could you prove that another sniper would not have come along in the meantime and have been outside at the time had they happened to take the chance to check?" Also worth considering | |||
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"Your comment supports precisely what im saying. Faith does not make what you have faith in real. " It is real for that person - and that is all that matters when we are discussing one person's belief. It is a relational concept between the believer and the object (in want of a better word) of his belief. | |||
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"Your comment supports precisely what im saying. Faith does not make what you have faith in real. " I agree too, but I think you may have missed my broader point which is that simply because something can not be proven to be 'real' does not mean it is not. The only things we can prove are of our own understanding. | |||
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"Simply deciding to believe something does not make it so. disagree, to the 'believer's' it does.. A belief is not a fact. Your statement does not counteract mine. Simply believing something exists does not make it exist. again i disagree.. to those that 'believe' the rituals and traditions are very real.. even the misguided ones who blow themselves up believed in their own religion.. so whilst to myself and also other none believers, these things are not fact.. to those who do etc etc... I hear what you are saying. I understand what you are saying. I can only repeat.... Simply because someone believes something does not make that something a fact or a truth or real. " would agree to a none believer who requires proof, yes thats true.. but then again lol..  | |||
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My faith matters more to me than a random opinion on a message board. Live and let live, I say, debate is good but there's no need for people to get snarky and nasty about things that are so personal to another Love Ned Flandiddlyanders x | |||
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"Consider this for me. A man is in a room. Someone he trusts tells him that if he leaves the room he will be shot by the sniper outside the door. The man never leaves the room for fear of being shot. The truth is that there is no sniper behind the door. I accept that to the man that believed there was a sniper the sniper was VERY real in his head. None the less.... the sniper was not a universal truth or a fact or indeed existent. And yet the faith was real. Now could you prove that another sniper would not have come along in the meantime and have been outside at the time had they happened to take the chance to check?" No i cannot prove that a sniper would not have come along. So therefore I WONT claim that a sniper exists. | |||
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