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Love to Trans community

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I am literally postin this on all my socials and want to do the same here too.

After our PMs comments today, i just want to give my full and heart felt support to our beautiful trans community!

#TransRightsAreHumanRights

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *u78Woman
over a year ago

NORTHAMPTON


"I am literally postin this on all my socials and want to do the same here too.

After our PMs comments today, i just want to give my full and heart felt support to our beautiful trans community!

#TransRightsAreHumanRights

Me too, thank you.

"

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am literally postin this on all my socials and want to do the same here too.

After our PMs comments today, i just want to give my full and heart felt support to our beautiful trans community!

#TransRightsAreHumanRights

"

I’ve just got in from work and haven’t seen any news yet. What’s the fuckwit been spouting off about now ? Thanks for the love

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I am literally postin this on all my socials and want to do the same here too.

After our PMs comments today, i just want to give my full and heart felt support to our beautiful trans community!

#TransRightsAreHumanRights

I’ve just got in from work and haven’t seen any news yet. What’s the fuckwit been spouting off about now ? Thanks for the love "

Oh gosh be prepared when you watch

But he basically said men are men and women are women and there is no inbetween. And he shouldnt feel 'bullied' for thinking this. Pretty vile stuff

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Agreed. Love and support to the Trans community, we stand with you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am literally postin this on all my socials and want to do the same here too.

After our PMs comments today, i just want to give my full and heart felt support to our beautiful trans community!

#TransRightsAreHumanRights

I’ve just got in from work and haven’t seen any news yet. What’s the fuckwit been spouting off about now ? Thanks for the love

Oh gosh be prepared when you watch

But he basically said men are men and women are women and there is no inbetween. And he shouldnt feel 'bullied' for thinking this. Pretty vile stuff"

Ah, okay, the standard “I’ve fucked everything up so badly that I’ve got to resort to stoking the trans fire to distract everyone” tactic, gotcha

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

Wow just when I think I can't hate the tory party any more.

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By *aptain Caveman41Man
over a year ago

Home

Love to the trans community

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I thought he was going to be talk about trains, not trans..

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

Context.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Context."

Trans on trains

...?

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By *tM-TomMan
over a year ago

London

Thank you to OP and others.

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By *dinson1983Man
over a year ago

Wakefield

Love, hugs and respect to all

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Love, hugs and respect to all "

Thats a lot of hugs and love..

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By *dinson1983Man
over a year ago

Wakefield


"

Love, hugs and respect to all

Thats a lot of hugs and love.."

I'm generous.

Make it a party eh!?!

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham


"Context."
.

This isn't about the recent story on the media, about trans women not be treated in a womans ward in a hospital?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Love, hugs and respect to all

Thats a lot of hugs and love..

I'm generous.

Make it a party eh!?! "

A T- party...

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,


"Context..

This isn't about the recent story on the media, about trans women not be treated in a womans ward in a hospital?"

Sorry,missed out the question mark after context.

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By *dinson1983Man
over a year ago

Wakefield


"

Love, hugs and respect to all

Thats a lot of hugs and love..

I'm generous.

Make it a party eh!?!

A T- party... "

Sounds good to me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A re-enactment of the Boston one...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Context..

This isn't about the recent story on the media, about trans women not be treated in a womans ward in a hospital?"

Noo about PMs speech at party confrence, he as gone for trans people big time!!!!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,


"Context..

This isn't about the recent story on the media, about trans women not be treated in a womans ward in a hospital?

Noo about PMs speech at party confrence, he as gone for trans people big time!!!!"

Really?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Context..

This isn't about the recent story on the media, about trans women not be treated in a womans ward in a hospital?

Noo about PMs speech at party confrence, he as gone for trans people big time!!!!

Really?"

Yeah he said no Trans on Trains.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *horesonWellesMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Thank you for this, it's really reassuring to see people giving us some love in the current climate x

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By *unchalMan
over a year ago

Dartford


"I am literally postin this on all my socials and want to do the same here too.

After our PMs comments today, i just want to give my full and heart felt support to our beautiful trans community!

#TransRightsAreHumanRights

"

Why?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,


"Context..

This isn't about the recent story on the media, about trans women not be treated in a womans ward in a hospital?

Noo about PMs speech at party confrence, he as gone for trans people big time!!!!

Really?

Yeah he said no Trans on Trains."

I meant has he really "gone for trans people big time"?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Context..

This isn't about the recent story on the media, about trans women not be treated in a womans ward in a hospital?

Noo about PMs speech at party confrence, he as gone for trans people big time!!!!

Really?

Yeah he said no Trans on Trains.

I meant has he really "gone for trans people big time"?"

Yep go watch

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *avinaTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Transsexual Transylvania

What a shit. Horrible people, all of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Context..

This isn't about the recent story on the media, about trans women not be treated in a womans ward in a hospital?

Noo about PMs speech at party confrence, he as gone for trans people big time!!!!

Really?

Yeah he said no Trans on Trains.

I meant has he really "gone for trans people big time"?

Yep go watch"

Where's the link? You can post links to news sites or YouTube.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What a shit. Horrible people, all of them."

Trans or Tories?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Context."

He said that men are men and women are women

Absolutely shocking I know

People think it’s a Tory issue too, labour hold the same views

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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

The Conservative party has clearly decided that exclusion of transwomen, and it is only ever transwomen never considering transmen, need to be excluded from single sex spaces is a vote winner for them. This is claimed to be about womens safety and dignity but if implemented legally it won't acheive what they claim.

If you force trans people to use facilities meeting their biological sex you not only force transwomen into male facilities but also transmen into the womans facilities. To do otherwise would breach almost certainly breach sex discrimination aspects of the equality act. Once you put transmen into woman only spaces it becomes much easier for cis male perverts to access those spaces so this this can reasonably be expected to make women more vunerable as a result.

The other predicted outcome is that cis women who are towards the masculine looking end of their sex will see increasing harassment and hostility in these spaces, this has been documented in parts of the US where such policies have been enforced.

For the trans community thier ideas are very worrying as some of the other outcomes of this is that it emboldens the transphobic bullies and incidents of verbal and physical abuse of trans people will increase (again). The planned policies will also disincline trans people to consume sensible amounts of drinks whilst out in an attempt to avoid needing to use toilets in public and this has longterm health implications and further social isolation. They will also be disincentivised from seeking timely medical assistance for general health issues because of the fear of being put into gender inappopriate wards.

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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

Thank you to Peachy (OP) and all the others giving your support its very appreciated at the moment.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

After Suella De Vile now I’m So Richi Sunak I’m wondering am I still in the UK? Is this what we’ve come to?

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By *ealMissShadyWoman
over a year ago

St Albans/ Welsh Borders

The sooner the Gory Party fuck off the better. Are we not meant to be moving forward as a society? These people have no clue and everyday you wonder what they're going to fuck up next

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By *oft_SensualTV/TS
over a year ago

Yorkshire

I dare say he's taking a leaf out of the Republican playbook in America, although he has all the authority of a wet Ikea instruction sheet.

The minority who listen to him won't be swayed and everyone else will be 'yeah whatevs'.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar. "

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so?

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By *ama bamaMan
over a year ago

dalkeith

Next election the Fuckers are out. Love and kisses to all you wonderful trans people.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so? "

“And we shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex they want to be. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, that’s just common sense.”

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so?

“And we shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex they want to be. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, that’s just common sense.”"

For the leader of this country that’s a pretty damn stupid thing to say.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so?

“And we shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex they want to be. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, that’s just common sense.”

For the leader of this country that’s a pretty damn stupid thing to say. "

And I know it may seem pretty unlike me as I’m usually a big believer that everyone is entitled to an opinion or view and there are plenty plenty people with that same view but you just cannot say that in his position. I actually think he should go for that comment.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so?

“And we shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex they want to be. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, that’s just common sense.”

For the leader of this country that’s a pretty damn stupid thing to say.

And I know it may seem pretty unlike me as I’m usually a big believer that everyone is entitled to an opinion or view and there are plenty plenty people with that same view but you just cannot say that in his position. I actually think he should go for that comment. "

To be fair he can, and should say it. While I don't reapect him, I respect that he was honest about what he believes. Honesty in a politician is good, fair enough he won't be honest about a lot of other things of course.

But now people know his views on the subject, like it or not he has made it clear how he feels. As it should so people can be informed about him and his views and act as they see accordingly.

Note! I'm not saying I agree with his views but it's nice to see a politician saying what they mean instead of trying to twist it with politician talk.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so?

“And we shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex they want to be. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, that’s just common sense.”

For the leader of this country that’s a pretty damn stupid thing to say.

And I know it may seem pretty unlike me as I’m usually a big believer that everyone is entitled to an opinion or view and there are plenty plenty people with that same view but you just cannot say that in his position. I actually think he should go for that comment. "

Personally I don’t see the big deal

I think the vast majority would agree with that view

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so? "

He is scrapping HS2

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so?

“And we shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex they want to be. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, that’s just common sense.”

For the leader of this country that’s a pretty damn stupid thing to say.

And I know it may seem pretty unlike me as I’m usually a big believer that everyone is entitled to an opinion or view and there are plenty plenty people with that same view but you just cannot say that in his position. I actually think he should go for that comment.

Personally I don’t see the big deal

I think the vast majority would agree with that view"

I’m not saying they don’t I just think he deserves all the stick he gets for a comment like that in his position.

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By *ustamanMan
over a year ago

weymouth

It'll give the daily heil something to flag wave about though

fuck em, metaphorically though not literally

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so?

“And we shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex they want to be. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, that’s just common sense.”

For the leader of this country that’s a pretty damn stupid thing to say.

And I know it may seem pretty unlike me as I’m usually a big believer that everyone is entitled to an opinion or view and there are plenty plenty people with that same view but you just cannot say that in his position. I actually think he should go for that comment.

To be fair he can, and should say it. While I don't reapect him, I respect that he was honest about what he believes. Honesty in a politician is good, fair enough he won't be honest about a lot of other things of course.

But now people know his views on the subject, like it or not he has made it clear how he feels. As it should so people can be informed about him and his views and act as they see accordingly.

Note! I'm not saying I agree with his views but it's nice to see a politician saying what they mean instead of trying to twist it with politician talk. "

I am with Kaitonel. He should say it because he believes it. This whole debate is polarising and we need people on _both_ sides to stand up and say what they think. This debate is not as clear cut as the trans community would like to make out.

My personal view: I totally agree that bigots are demonising trans people. I also think that that goes the other way and women who want biological women only spaces (I don’t speak trans lingo so I don’t know what terms are “acceptable”) should not be demonised either.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Is the uproar because of his position or because he said something wrong?

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By *ustamanMan
over a year ago

weymouth


"It'll give the daily heil something to flag wave about though

fuck em, metaphorically though not literally "

Just incase I'm misunderstood the fuck em was aimed at the media/politicians

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By *heelerMan
over a year ago

Northants

Im male str8 but people should be allowed to be what they want to be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is the uproar because of his position or because he said something wrong?

"

He didn’t agree with everything the trans community want so now he’s the devil

Remember, it’s a complicated subject with people on both sides. But you have to agree with everything one side says or your basically transphobic hitler. Makes for very rational debate

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

So nice to see the positive vibes and support in this thread.

Meanwhile the equivalent thread on the same topic down in the politics section shows what the Tory party faithful think.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"Is the uproar because of his position or because he said something wrong?

He didn’t agree with everything the trans community want so now he’s the devil

Remember, it’s a complicated subject with people on both sides. But you have to agree with everything one side says or your basically transphobic hitler. Makes for very rational debate "

It most certainly is a complicated subject.

What exactly is wrong with saying 'there are only 2 sexes'? That is scientifically correct.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"Is the uproar because of his position or because he said something wrong?

He didn’t agree with everything the trans community want so now he’s the devil

Remember, it’s a complicated subject with people on both sides. But you have to agree with everything one side says or your basically transphobic hitler. Makes for very rational debate

It most certainly is a complicated subject.

What exactly is wrong with saying 'there are only 2 sexes'? That is scientifically correct. "

It's really going after the trans community though.

The irony of someone saying something correct and then having hatred written about him by the very community demanding love and understanding is not lost

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry


"Is the uproar because of his position or because he said something wrong?

He didn’t agree with everything the trans community want so now he’s the devil

Remember, it’s a complicated subject with people on both sides. But you have to agree with everything one side says or your basically transphobic hitler. Makes for very rational debate

It most certainly is a complicated subject.

What exactly is wrong with saying 'there are only 2 sexes'? That is scientifically correct.

It's really going after the trans community though.

The irony of someone saying something correct and then having hatred written about him by the very community demanding love and understanding is not lost "

Yes absolutely the poor Tory billionaire desperate to throw some red meat to his base. Maligned everywhere.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is the uproar because of his position or because he said something wrong?

He didn’t agree with everything the trans community want so now he’s the devil

Remember, it’s a complicated subject with people on both sides. But you have to agree with everything one side says or your basically transphobic hitler. Makes for very rational debate

It most certainly is a complicated subject.

What exactly is wrong with saying 'there are only 2 sexes'? That is scientifically correct. "

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *iss_KateTV/TS
over a year ago

Windsor

The people who make these comments have no idea what it is like to be born trans.

Insensitive and thick morons.

Just as well I don't care what people think!

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"Is the uproar because of his position or because he said something wrong?

He didn’t agree with everything the trans community want so now he’s the devil

Remember, it’s a complicated subject with people on both sides. But you have to agree with everything one side says or your basically transphobic hitler. Makes for very rational debate

It most certainly is a complicated subject.

What exactly is wrong with saying 'there are only 2 sexes'? That is scientifically correct.

It's really going after the trans community though.

The irony of someone saying something correct and then having hatred written about him by the very community demanding love and understanding is not lost

Yes absolutely the poor Tory billionaire desperate to throw some red meat to his base. Maligned everywhere."

Works though. It's distracting and energising their supporters.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

Just for context, here’s what he actually said as opposed the the partial quote above;

It shouldn’t be controversial for parents to know what their children are being taught in school about relationships.

Patients should should know when hospitals are talking about men or women.

We shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex that they want to be. They can’t, a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That’s just common sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Begin the Two Minutes of Hate.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"Just for context, here’s what he actually said as opposed the the partial quote above;

It shouldn’t be controversial for parents to know what their children are being taught in school about relationships.

Patients should should know when hospitals are talking about men or women.

We shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex that they want to be. They can’t, a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That’s just common sense."

Did Rishi mention the toilet issue?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just for context, here’s what he actually said as opposed the the partial quote above;

It shouldn’t be controversial for parents to know what their children are being taught in school about relationships.

Patients should should know when hospitals are talking about men or women.

We shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex that they want to be. They can’t, a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That’s just common sense."

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"Is the uproar because of his position or because he said something wrong?

He didn’t agree with everything the trans community want so now he’s the devil

Remember, it’s a complicated subject with people on both sides. But you have to agree with everything one side says or your basically transphobic hitler. Makes for very rational debate

It most certainly is a complicated subject.

What exactly is wrong with saying 'there are only 2 sexes'? That is scientifically correct.

It's really going after the trans community though.

The irony of someone saying something correct and then having hatred written about him by the very community demanding love and understanding is not lost

Yes absolutely the poor Tory billionaire desperate to throw some red meat to his base. Maligned everywhere.

Works though. It's distracting and energising their supporters. "

Oh look over there. Remember Tory supporters aren't possibly capable of looking at more than one topic at a time.

Give it a rest mate, its boring.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"The people who make these comments have no idea what it is like to be born trans.

Insensitive and thick morons.

Just as well I don't care what people think!

"

You're right, the vast majority of people have no idea what it's like to be trans.

Insulting those people definitely won't help them understand.

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By *avinaTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Transsexual Transylvania


"What a shit. Horrible people, all of them.

Trans or Tories? "

Sorry - Tories. I just assumed that was evident from context. My mistake.

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By *iss_KateTV/TS
over a year ago

Windsor


"The people who make these comments have no idea what it is like to be born trans.

Insensitive and thick morons.

Just as well I don't care what people think!

You're right, the vast majority of people have no idea what it's like to be trans.

Insulting those people definitely won't help them understand. "

And insulting us trans certainly will not help them at the next election

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall


"Just for context, here’s what he actually said as opposed the the partial quote above;

It shouldn’t be controversial for parents to know what their children are being taught in school about relationships.

Patients should should know when hospitals are talking about men or women.

We shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex that they want to be. They can’t, a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That’s just common sense.

Did Rishi mention the toilet issue?"

I didn’t hear it Tom. Maybe he’s missed a trick?

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"The people who make these comments have no idea what it is like to be born trans.

Insensitive and thick morons.

Just as well I don't care what people think!

You're right, the vast majority of people have no idea what it's like to be trans.

Insulting those people definitely won't help them understand.

And insulting us trans certainly will not help them at the next election

"

What did he say that was so insulting?

This is where I get confused. As I said above, he was scientifically correct.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"The people who make these comments have no idea what it is like to be born trans.

Insensitive and thick morons.

Just as well I don't care what people think!

You're right, the vast majority of people have no idea what it's like to be trans.

Insulting those people definitely won't help them understand.

And insulting us trans certainly will not help them at the next election

"

I don’t think this will have _any_ issue at the next election in terms of people directly voting against it. The trans community is too small.

This is designed to provoke Labour into a position of actively opposing it. The reality is that the vast majority of the country don’t care. They are naturally sympathetic to trans people but they are also naturally sympathetic to women only spaces. If Labour actively take the bait then it means that Rishi moves into the “defending the rights of (biological) women space” and that is much more likely to get votes.

Labour are in a bind here - showing active support will alienate a lot of people _they_ need.

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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport


"What did he say that was so insulting?

This is where I get confused. As I said above, he was scientifically correct."

Not that its especially relevant to this discussion but its not scientifically correct. This is definately excluding the intersex community.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It gets to the point,'who cares' He in power now ,won't always be ,things move on ,l deal with this stuff every day, don't get much bother , deal with it when l have to ,not going to worry or dwell on it. I appreciate some trans will feel intimidated, so tolerance is the key.There are deviants in all walks of life ,not just men playing at trans for the wrong reasons.

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By *arkfemparadiseTV/TS
over a year ago

Bournemouth

The fact that Rishi also mentioned that “it shouldn’t be controversial that parents should know what their children are being taught in school about relationships”

What has that got to do with transgender people? It seems completely unnecessary. Not to mention children are always dragged into the conversation

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"What did he say that was so insulting?

This is where I get confused. As I said above, he was scientifically correct.

Not that its especially relevant to this discussion but its not scientifically correct. This is definately excluding the intersex community."

You are right. It does exclude intersex. Although it could be argued that intersex is a mixture of male and female, therefore still only 2 sexes.

That's not really what he was talking about though.

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By *oquars19458Man
over a year ago

sheffield


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so?

“And we shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex they want to be. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, that’s just common sense.”

For the leader of this country that’s a pretty damn stupid thing to say.

And I know it may seem pretty unlike me as I’m usually a big believer that everyone is entitled to an opinion or view and there are plenty plenty people with that same view but you just cannot say that in his position. I actually think he should go for that comment.

Personally I don’t see the big deal

I think the vast majority would agree with that view"

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By *oquars19458Man
over a year ago

sheffield


"Just for context, here’s what he actually said as opposed the the partial quote above;

It shouldn’t be controversial for parents to know what their children are being taught in school about relationships.

Patients should should know when hospitals are talking about men or women.

We shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex that they want to be. They can’t, a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That’s just common sense.

Did Rishi mention the toilet issue?"

Now please wash your hands

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"The fact that Rishi also mentioned that “it shouldn’t be controversial that parents should know what their children are being taught in school about relationships”

What has that got to do with transgender people? It seems completely unnecessary. Not to mention children are always dragged into the conversation "

I have no idea if the context but the statement you quote seems reasonable. Agree it doesn't have anything to do with any gender. Just parents having input into their child's education.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"The people who make these comments have no idea what it is like to be born trans.

Insensitive and thick morons.

Just as well I don't care what people think!

"

Why are you insulting people.?

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"The fact that Rishi also mentioned that “it shouldn’t be controversial that parents should know what their children are being taught in school about relationships”

What has that got to do with transgender people? It seems completely unnecessary. Not to mention children are always dragged into the conversation

I have no idea if the context but the statement you quote seems reasonable. Agree it doesn't have anything to do with any gender. Just parents having input into their child's education. "

I like to know what mine is being taught at school regarding this. To be honest though kids aren’t that bothered. My daughter’s friend has a dad who is trans and I expected lots of questions but I didn’t get any. Which I see as a good thing really.

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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

I sometimes hear younger kids asking questions to their parents about me as I pass but these have always been inquisative rather than nasty. I wish I could say the same about some of the answers.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"I sometimes hear younger kids asking questions to their parents about me as I pass but these have always been inquisative rather than nasty. I wish I could say the same about some of the answers."

Exactly!

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By *ischiefManaged69Couple
over a year ago

Preston

Apologies if hopping in to ask a question that's a little off the original post is poor etiquette.If it's better to start a separate thread, I'll do that.

I'm asking a genuine question, borne from my own ignorance. I'm actually asking to better informed.

The term trans refers to someone who identified as a different gender to they one they were born as. Is that correct?

Does someone in this situation want to be classified as trans, rather than as a woman or man?

My limited understanding suggests that if you need to make such an impactful change to your life, you want to live your life fully as the gender you feel you are, rather than the one you were born with. Before I get any further in, is what I've said so far accurate, or am I already wide of the mark.

Genuinely appreciate any that take the time to reply

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"Context.

He said that men are men and women are women

Absolutely shocking I know

People think it’s a Tory issue too, labour hold the same views "

There are bigots in all major parties.

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By *ts the taking part thatMan
over a year ago

southampton


"I sometimes hear younger kids asking questions to their parents about me as I pass but these have always been inquisative rather than nasty. I wish I could say the same about some of the answers."

That's because pretend is a child's game, as they mature they'll understand only women with XX chromosomes are women and anything else is indeed pretend.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"Bit of a stupid thing to say to be fair. Whether he thinks it or not surely he must know saying that is gonna cause uproar.

I haven't seen it. What was the stupid thing he said? (ok thats quite a big target area for some) but what has incensed people so?

“And we shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex they want to be. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, that’s just common sense.”

For the leader of this country that’s a pretty damn stupid thing to say.

And I know it may seem pretty unlike me as I’m usually a big believer that everyone is entitled to an opinion or view and there are plenty plenty people with that same view but you just cannot say that in his position. I actually think he should go for that comment.

To be fair he can, and should say it. While I don't reapect him, I respect that he was honest about what he believes. Honesty in a politician is good, fair enough he won't be honest about a lot of other things of course.

But now people know his views on the subject, like it or not he has made it clear how he feels. As it should so people can be informed about him and his views and act as they see accordingly.

Note! I'm not saying I agree with his views but it's nice to see a politician saying what they mean instead of trying to twist it with politician talk. "

He doesn’t believe it at all. His party are so threadbare in both achievements and policies they are desperate for anything they can clutch as a possible vote winner, and appealing to bigots and fascists is all they have left.

Rancid people.

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By *melie LALWoman
over a year ago

Peterborough


"Just for context, here’s what he actually said as opposed the the partial quote above;

It shouldn’t be controversial for parents to know what their children are being taught in school about relationships.

Patients should should know when hospitals are talking about men or women.

We shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex that they want to be. They can’t, a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That’s just common sense."

Thanks for this. The quoted paragraph was the snapshot on the BBC news at 6pm.

The middle sentence makes no sense though. Sack the author.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"I sometimes hear younger kids asking questions to their parents about me as I pass but these have always been inquisative rather than nasty. I wish I could say the same about some of the answers.

That's because pretend is a child's game, as they mature they'll understand only women with XX chromosomes are women and anything else is indeed pretend."

Or they’ll understand that people can be so unhappy in their bodies and minds and the only way they can be happy is to live life as the opposite gender.

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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport


"Apologies if hopping in to ask a question that's a little off the original post is poor etiquette.If it's better to start a separate thread, I'll do that.

I'm asking a genuine question, borne from my own ignorance. I'm actually asking to better informed.

The term trans refers to someone who identified as a different gender to they one they were born as. Is that correct?

Does someone in this situation want to be classified as trans, rather than as a woman or man?

My limited understanding suggests that if you need to make such an impactful change to your life, you want to live your life fully as the gender you feel you are, rather than the one you were born with. Before I get any further in, is what I've said so far accurate, or am I already wide of the mark.

Genuinely appreciate any that take the time to reply "

Trans is the abbreviation of transgender which not just encompasses transmen and transwomen but also those that are genderfluid (their gender identity varies over time), agendered (do not feel they have any gender identity) and non-binary (have a gender identity that has some of the characteristics of both the male and female gender).

For the more binary transmen and transwomen some have pride in being transgender a like the trans moniker but many others want to blend into society and not be recognised as anything but their gender identity so simply a man or woman.

I hope that doesn't offend anyone and helps.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"Context.

He said that men are men and women are women

Absolutely shocking I know

People think it’s a Tory issue too, labour hold the same views

There are bigots in all major parties."

This statement is _exactly_ why Rishi is going down the path he is. He knows that the majority of people ultimately side with the men are men/women are women argument because that’s what they see in a daily basis. He knows that if he can get trans people to call the public bigots then the public will think “hold on, those people are talking about me” and will react negatively to the side that is calling them bigots.

The trans community needs to learn to cool it down and stop being so strident. That way they will win hearts and minds but the current approach isn’t working.

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By *arkfemparadiseTV/TS
over a year ago

Bournemouth

[Removed by poster at 05/10/23 11:10:04]

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By *melie LALWoman
over a year ago

Peterborough


"What did he say that was so insulting?

This is where I get confused. As I said above, he was scientifically correct.

Not that its especially relevant to this discussion but its not scientifically correct. This is definately excluding the intersex community."

Not if you determine intersex as male or female by DNA chromosomes. One Y chromosome is male no matter how many X chromosomes. No Y = female even if only one X.

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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

Like all comminities there are some very vocal people who tend to get a lot of the attention but the bulk of the trans people are busy getting on with trying to be someone they can live with whilst avoiding too much harassment.

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By *arkfemparadiseTV/TS
over a year ago

Bournemouth

[Removed by poster at 05/10/23 11:10:39]

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By *arkfemparadiseTV/TS
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"The fact that Rishi also mentioned that “it shouldn’t be controversial that parents should know what their children are being taught in school about relationships”

What has that got to do with transgender people? It seems completely unnecessary. Not to mention children are always dragged into the conversation

I have no idea if the context but the statement you quote seems reasonable. Agree it doesn't have anything to do with any gender. Just parents having input into their child's education.

I like to know what mine is being taught at school regarding this. To be honest though kids aren’t that bothered. My daughter’s friend has a dad who is trans and I expected lots of questions but I didn’t get any. Which I see as a good thing really. "

I completely agree. I believe parents should be aware of what their kids are being taught in schools. I’m just wondering where the idea of ‘relationships’ come from. It sounds more suitable to the discussion of the teachings of same sex’s relationships in schools, rather than gender identity.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall


"Just for context, here’s what he actually said as opposed the the partial quote above;

It shouldn’t be controversial for parents to know what their children are being taught in school about relationships.

Patients should should know when hospitals are talking about men or women.

We shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex that they want to be. They can’t, a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That’s just common sense.

Thanks for this. The quoted paragraph was the snapshot on the BBC news at 6pm.

The middle sentence makes no sense though. Sack the author."

Yes, a talking hospital is an unusual concept.

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By *melie LALWoman
over a year ago

Peterborough


"I sometimes hear younger kids asking questions to their parents about me as I pass but these have always been inquisative rather than nasty. I wish I could say the same about some of the answers.

That's because pretend is a child's game, as they mature they'll understand only women with XX chromosomes are women and anything else is indeed pretend."

We are now educated to know DNA can go beyond XX or XY

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When did society become so complicated

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"Context.

He said that men are men and women are women

Absolutely shocking I know

People think it’s a Tory issue too, labour hold the same views

There are bigots in all major parties.

This statement is _exactly_ why Rishi is going down the path he is. He knows that the majority of people ultimately side with the men are men/women are women argument because that’s what they see in a daily basis. He knows that if he can get trans people to call the public bigots then the public will think “hold on, those people are talking about me” and will react negatively to the side that is calling them bigots.

The trans community needs to learn to cool it down and stop being so strident. That way they will win hearts and minds but the current approach isn’t working."

The majority of people don’t share that view, as polls have shown time and time again.

The majority of journalists allowed to opine about the subject in the mainstream media do share that view, which is why there is such a distortion over the level of support for this form of fascism.

Suggesting that trans people and decent people of conscience appease fascism directed at trans people by ‘cooling it down’ or being less ‘strident’ is exactly what people would have said to Jewish people in Germany in the early 1930s, a situation which is a direct analogue to what we are seeing today.

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By *melie LALWoman
over a year ago

Peterborough


"Just for context, here’s what he actually said as opposed the the partial quote above;

It shouldn’t be controversial for parents to know what their children are being taught in school about relationships.

Patients should should know when hospitals are talking about men or women.

We shouldn’t get bullied into believing that people can be any sex that they want to be. They can’t, a man is a man and a woman is a woman. That’s just common sense.

Thanks for this. The quoted paragraph was the snapshot on the BBC news at 6pm.

The middle sentence makes no sense though. Sack the author.

Yes, a talking hospital is an unusual concept."

That made me laugh when I read it

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"Context.

He said that men are men and women are women

Absolutely shocking I know

People think it’s a Tory issue too, labour hold the same views

There are bigots in all major parties.

This statement is _exactly_ why Rishi is going down the path he is. He knows that the majority of people ultimately side with the men are men/women are women argument because that’s what they see in a daily basis. He knows that if he can get trans people to call the public bigots then the public will think “hold on, those people are talking about me” and will react negatively to the side that is calling them bigots.

The trans community needs to learn to cool it down and stop being so strident. That way they will win hearts and minds but the current approach isn’t working.

The majority of people don’t share that view, as polls have shown time and time again.

The majority of journalists allowed to opine about the subject in the mainstream media do share that view, which is why there is such a distortion over the level of support for this form of fascism.

Suggesting that trans people and decent people of conscience appease fascism directed at trans people by ‘cooling it down’ or being less ‘strident’ is exactly what people would have said to Jewish people in Germany in the early 1930s, a situation which is a direct analogue to what we are seeing today."

I am not suggesting anyone “appeases” anyone - what I am suggesting is that being strident and calling names isn’t working. If you disagree then feel free to call me (and anyone else) a bigot as much as you like but my sympathy to the trans cause drops off a little every time you do that. All I am saying is a different approach is needed.

I don’t think people are anti trans but I do think they are pro women.

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

Please do as the names the transpeople are either directly called or at least implied by some of the most vocal people on the other side of the argument are worse than bigot (and probably words that are banned from being used on this site).

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.


"The people who make these comments have no idea what it is like to be born trans.

Insensitive and thick morons.

Just as well I don't care what people think!

"

I'm trying to get my head around this statement.

So people who don't understand what it's like are thick morons?

Isn't that just the same?

Rather than insult people and force them to believe your viewpoint and fuck em if they don't, maybe educate them.

There's an old saying "Rome wasn't built in a day"

And as much as trans deserve the right to equality the same as everyone else unfortunately it's going to take time and patience on both side.

You have to understand that while you have been living with this your whole life for many it's new and changing views is going to be a long hard battle.

Many still don't accept gay people.

For many Trans is very new.

I understand that you have to make concessions every day and it must be exhausting to live that way ,it may take ten years,20,50 before people finally accept.

Is it right?

I don't know.

People don't like change and you have to factor people's religion and how they where raised.

I'm glad we are all different and unique life would be very dull otherwise.

Peace and love xx

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"Context.

He said that men are men and women are women

Absolutely shocking I know

People think it’s a Tory issue too, labour hold the same views

There are bigots in all major parties.

This statement is _exactly_ why Rishi is going down the path he is. He knows that the majority of people ultimately side with the men are men/women are women argument because that’s what they see in a daily basis. He knows that if he can get trans people to call the public bigots then the public will think “hold on, those people are talking about me” and will react negatively to the side that is calling them bigots.

The trans community needs to learn to cool it down and stop being so strident. That way they will win hearts and minds but the current approach isn’t working.

The majority of people don’t share that view, as polls have shown time and time again.

The majority of journalists allowed to opine about the subject in the mainstream media do share that view, which is why there is such a distortion over the level of support for this form of fascism.

Suggesting that trans people and decent people of conscience appease fascism directed at trans people by ‘cooling it down’ or being less ‘strident’ is exactly what people would have said to Jewish people in Germany in the early 1930s, a situation which is a direct analogue to what we are seeing today.

I am not suggesting anyone “appeases” anyone - what I am suggesting is that being strident and calling names isn’t working. If you disagree then feel free to call me (and anyone else) a bigot as much as you like but my sympathy to the trans cause drops off a little every time you do that. All I am saying is a different approach is needed.

I don’t think people are anti trans but I do think they are pro women.

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling"

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Like all comminities there are some very vocal people who tend to get a lot of the attention but the bulk of the trans people are busy getting on with trying to be someone they can live with whilst avoiding too much harassment."
,agreed

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate."

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ischiefManaged69Couple
over a year ago

Preston


"Apologies if hopping in to ask a question that's a little off the original post is poor etiquette.If it's better to start a separate thread, I'll do that.

I'm asking a genuine question, borne from my own ignorance. I'm actually asking to better informed.

The term trans refers to someone who identified as a different gender to they one they were born as. Is that correct?

Does someone in this situation want to be classified as trans, rather than as a woman or man?

My limited understanding suggests that if you need to make such an impactful change to your life, you want to live your life fully as the gender you feel you are, rather than the one you were born with. Before I get any further in, is what I've said so far accurate, or am I already wide of the mark.

Genuinely appreciate any that take the time to reply

Trans is the abbreviation of transgender which not just encompasses transmen and transwomen but also those that are genderfluid (their gender identity varies over time), agendered (do not feel they have any gender identity) and non-binary (have a gender identity that has some of the characteristics of both the male and female gender).

For the more binary transmen and transwomen some have pride in being transgender a like the trans moniker but many others want to blend into society and not be recognised as anything but their gender identity so simply a man or woman.

I hope that doesn't offend anyone and helps."

Thanks for that, much clearer. Now for the hard bit...

How a person identifies doesn't always match them physically. I can see how this could cause confusion in certain gender specific situations, such as changing rooms or toilets. I know that some countries are way ahead of the curve and have utilised same sex spaces for years, which would eliminate the issue. But, in the UK, we're charmingly behind the times, as usual!

What is the best way to manage the more sensitive issues of gender specific spaces? I'd like to believe that no one should care about sharing public space with anyone of a different gender. But. A lot of our facilities infrastructure is based on male/female for a lot of facilities.

Is this seen as a lack of respect for diversity, or just a practical aspect of physical anatomy?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?"

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional."

_Nothing_ is unconditional.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

*screams in LGBTQ*

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional."

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good."

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional."

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry."

Weird. Blocking someone who has never DM'd, nor ever shown an interest in you.

Enjoy that echo chamber.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others. "

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry."

And this is _exactly_ why Rishi is taking the path he is because he knows what the reaction on the other side will be. You are playing _right_ into his hands.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others.

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?"

I probably read that wrong. Nobody should be harassed. But one can support the right to be whoever you want to be but have different views on things like toilets/wards/prisons/women’s refuges etc so in that way it’s not unconditional but yes apologies you’re right, without harassment.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

And this is _exactly_ why Rishi is taking the path he is because he knows what the reaction on the other side will be. You are playing _right_ into his hands."

It’s not personal, we block anyone who has expressed what we see as bigoted views on the forum. Don’t think it will have any effect on the Tories’ chances at the next election though!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago

Gosport


"Thanks for that, much clearer. Now for the hard bit...

How a person identifies doesn't always match them physically. I can see how this could cause confusion in certain gender specific situations, such as changing rooms or toilets. I know that some countries are way ahead of the curve and have utilised same sex spaces for years, which would eliminate the issue. But, in the UK, we're charmingly behind the times, as usual!

What is the best way to manage the more sensitive issues of gender specific spaces? I'd like to believe that no one should care about sharing public space with anyone of a different gender. But. A lot of our facilities infrastructure is based on male/female for a lot of facilities.

Is this seen as a lack of respect for diversity, or just a practical aspect of physical anatomy? "

The guidance on this varies on who is giving it. The trans support charities tend to suggest trans people should start using toilets matching their gender identity as soon as they are publicly presenting (wearing clothing and accessories of thier identity) as this.

Clearly we have the other side of the arguement which is never, ita all down to biology.

From my discussions with other transwomen (and sorry I don't know any transmen well enough to comment on this for them) the reality is that most start once they have been presenting for awhile. I would say that I consider enforcing post-op transwomen with breasts and a neovagina to use male only facilities is inappropriate.

For me this started with using shop changing rooms as building a new wardrobe with only trying clothes on at home was proving very time consumming. To begin with I was very purposefully asking shop staff if they were happy with this. Thankfully I have only come across ones with proper cubicals although I worry a bit about this. Toilets came a little later and still cause me considerable concern but in reality people shouldn't really be exposing themselves in these. I have not ventured into changing rooms in sports facilities as for me this is still too problematic.

Something else I would add is that once transwomen have been on hormones for a few months the risk of certain assults pretty much goes away as penile function is stopped, after all estrogen has a history of being abused to chemically castrate gay men.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Love, support and solidarity with all trans people.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

And this is _exactly_ why Rishi is taking the path he is because he knows what the reaction on the other side will be. You are playing _right_ into his hands.

It’s not personal, we block anyone who has expressed what we see as bigoted views on the forum. Don’t think it will have any effect on the Tories’ chances at the next election though! "

I genuinely don’t care who you block. I do care that you don’t seem to understand that you are being played like a puppet by the Tories. They _want_ this type of reaction because that is what they will use in the election. Purists always make great political opponents because the purity of their position doesn’t allow them to accommodate nuance.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others.

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?

I probably read that wrong. Nobody should be harassed. But one can support the right to be whoever you want to be but have different views on things like toilets/wards/prisons/women’s refuges etc so in that way it’s not unconditional but yes apologies you’re right, without harassment. "

The issue is that when it comes to the specifics around the particulars you are mentioning there is no black and white, it’s a nuanced issue that often comes down to individual cases.

The reasons it should be obvious this ‘policy’ about hospital wards is not serious though, and no more than an attempt to take the votes of bigots, is that it implies trans men should go into women’s wards, which is nonsensical and a greater affront to women’s rights. It would be illegal, as no court would allow the policy to be enacted, and it would be impossible to implement in any case, as with 7.5 million people on hospital waiting lists, hospital staff have neither the resources or desire to implement discriminatory ward policies at the behest of a drowning government desperately chasing votes.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

And this is _exactly_ why Rishi is taking the path he is because he knows what the reaction on the other side will be. You are playing _right_ into his hands.

It’s not personal, we block anyone who has expressed what we see as bigoted views on the forum. Don’t think it will have any effect on the Tories’ chances at the next election though!

I genuinely don’t care who you block. I do care that you don’t seem to understand that you are being played like a puppet by the Tories. They _want_ this type of reaction because that is what they will use in the election. Purists always make great political opponents because the purity of their position doesn’t allow them to accommodate nuance. "

Fighting fascism is not about purity, it’s about human decency. If you don’t stand up to fascism because you fear the consequence you let yourself become complicit.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

It’s all bollocks.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others.

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?

I probably read that wrong. Nobody should be harassed. But one can support the right to be whoever you want to be but have different views on things like toilets/wards/prisons/women’s refuges etc so in that way it’s not unconditional but yes apologies you’re right, without harassment.

The issue is that when it comes to the specifics around the particulars you are mentioning there is no black and white, it’s a nuanced issue that often comes down to individual cases.

The reasons it should be obvious this ‘policy’ about hospital wards is not serious though, and no more than an attempt to take the votes of bigots, is that it implies trans men should go into women’s wards, which is nonsensical and a greater affront to women’s rights. It would be illegal, as no court would allow the policy to be enacted, and it would be impossible to implement in any case, as with 7.5 million people on hospital waiting lists, hospital staff have neither the resources or desire to implement discriminatory ward policies at the behest of a drowning government desperately chasing votes."

Oh I agree. If me or mine need urgent hospital treatment I don’t give a toss who’s lying next to us! The way the NHS is at the moment is anyone really going to complain about that? I think not.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others.

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?

I probably read that wrong. Nobody should be harassed. But one can support the right to be whoever you want to be but have different views on things like toilets/wards/prisons/women’s refuges etc so in that way it’s not unconditional but yes apologies you’re right, without harassment.

The issue is that when it comes to the specifics around the particulars you are mentioning there is no black and white, it’s a nuanced issue that often comes down to individual cases.

The reasons it should be obvious this ‘policy’ about hospital wards is not serious though, and no more than an attempt to take the votes of bigots, is that it implies trans men should go into women’s wards, which is nonsensical and a greater affront to women’s rights. It would be illegal, as no court would allow the policy to be enacted, and it would be impossible to implement in any case, as with 7.5 million people on hospital waiting lists, hospital staff have neither the resources or desire to implement discriminatory ward policies at the behest of a drowning government desperately chasing votes.

Oh I agree. If me or mine need urgent hospital treatment I don’t give a toss who’s lying next to us! The way the NHS is at the moment is anyone really going to complain about that? I think not. "

Sunak seems to think that Tory voters would complain, or be unhappy about it.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

They are gambling they can turn it into an election issue. And they have to, as they have nothing else - you’ll notice the cost of living crisis was not mentioned at the conference at all. The majority of people in this country are far more concerned about how they are going to pay their bills than who uses which toilets.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others.

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?

I probably read that wrong. Nobody should be harassed. But one can support the right to be whoever you want to be but have different views on things like toilets/wards/prisons/women’s refuges etc so in that way it’s not unconditional but yes apologies you’re right, without harassment.

The issue is that when it comes to the specifics around the particulars you are mentioning there is no black and white, it’s a nuanced issue that often comes down to individual cases.

The reasons it should be obvious this ‘policy’ about hospital wards is not serious though, and no more than an attempt to take the votes of bigots, is that it implies trans men should go into women’s wards, which is nonsensical and a greater affront to women’s rights. It would be illegal, as no court would allow the policy to be enacted, and it would be impossible to implement in any case, as with 7.5 million people on hospital waiting lists, hospital staff have neither the resources or desire to implement discriminatory ward policies at the behest of a drowning government desperately chasing votes.

Oh I agree. If me or mine need urgent hospital treatment I don’t give a toss who’s lying next to us! The way the NHS is at the moment is anyone really going to complain about that? I think not.

Sunak seems to think that Tory voters would complain, or be unhappy about it."

In an ideal world yeah I’d prefer separate wards but we don’t live in an ideal world and if I need treatment I won’t be complaining. And I hate it when people assume “tory voters” or “labour voters” are all the same person and think exactly the same. They really don’t.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others.

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?

I probably read that wrong. Nobody should be harassed. But one can support the right to be whoever you want to be but have different views on things like toilets/wards/prisons/women’s refuges etc so in that way it’s not unconditional but yes apologies you’re right, without harassment.

The issue is that when it comes to the specifics around the particulars you are mentioning there is no black and white, it’s a nuanced issue that often comes down to individual cases.

The reasons it should be obvious this ‘policy’ about hospital wards is not serious though, and no more than an attempt to take the votes of bigots, is that it implies trans men should go into women’s wards, which is nonsensical and a greater affront to women’s rights. It would be illegal, as no court would allow the policy to be enacted, and it would be impossible to implement in any case, as with 7.5 million people on hospital waiting lists, hospital staff have neither the resources or desire to implement discriminatory ward policies at the behest of a drowning government desperately chasing votes."

Am I missing something fundamental here? You accuse me of being a bigot because I say I support women’s rights and then you say:

“ it implies trans men should go into women’s wards, which is nonsensical and a greater affront to women’s rights.”

How does that differ from my “bigoted” position?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *melie LALWoman
over a year ago

Peterborough


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others.

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?

I probably read that wrong. Nobody should be harassed. But one can support the right to be whoever you want to be but have different views on things like toilets/wards/prisons/women’s refuges etc so in that way it’s not unconditional but yes apologies you’re right, without harassment.

The issue is that when it comes to the specifics around the particulars you are mentioning there is no black and white, it’s a nuanced issue that often comes down to individual cases.

The reasons it should be obvious this ‘policy’ about hospital wards is not serious though, and no more than an attempt to take the votes of bigots, is that it implies trans men should go into women’s wards, which is nonsensical and a greater affront to women’s rights. It would be illegal, as no court would allow the policy to be enacted, and it would be impossible to implement in any case, as with 7.5 million people on hospital waiting lists, hospital staff have neither the resources or desire to implement discriminatory ward policies at the behest of a drowning government desperately chasing votes.

Oh I agree. If me or mine need urgent hospital treatment I don’t give a toss who’s lying next to us! The way the NHS is at the moment is anyone really going to complain about that? I think not.

Sunak seems to think that Tory voters would complain, or be unhappy about it."

I've been on wards as a HCP. First experience was of a transwoman pre-op last century in a female bay. No complaints, perhaps the other patients simply accepted her as a woman.

Just a few years ago, on the same ward, a young transman in a male bay and an elderly transwoman in a female bay. No patients complained but a couple of male support workers were heard to ridicule the transwoman. I suggest this registered something within their own masculinity

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others.

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?

I probably read that wrong. Nobody should be harassed. But one can support the right to be whoever you want to be but have different views on things like toilets/wards/prisons/women’s refuges etc so in that way it’s not unconditional but yes apologies you’re right, without harassment.

The issue is that when it comes to the specifics around the particulars you are mentioning there is no black and white, it’s a nuanced issue that often comes down to individual cases.

The reasons it should be obvious this ‘policy’ about hospital wards is not serious though, and no more than an attempt to take the votes of bigots, is that it implies trans men should go into women’s wards, which is nonsensical and a greater affront to women’s rights. It would be illegal, as no court would allow the policy to be enacted, and it would be impossible to implement in any case, as with 7.5 million people on hospital waiting lists, hospital staff have neither the resources or desire to implement discriminatory ward policies at the behest of a drowning government desperately chasing votes.

Oh I agree. If me or mine need urgent hospital treatment I don’t give a toss who’s lying next to us! The way the NHS is at the moment is anyone really going to complain about that? I think not.

Sunak seems to think that Tory voters would complain, or be unhappy about it.

In an ideal world yeah I’d prefer separate wards but we don’t live in an ideal world and if I need treatment I won’t be complaining. And I hate it when people assume “tory voters” or “labour voters” are all the same person and think exactly the same. They really don’t. "

Of course they don't.

The purpose of Sunak's comments was to distract people who could potentially vote Tory from everything else going on with what is essentially a non-problem. Or the purpose is to energise those people who have sketchy views about trans people. (A lot of people still bang on about "Starmer can't even say what the difference is between a man and a woman").

Who exactly is bullying him about calling a man a woman or vice versa? I'll bet a hefty sum it's exactly no one.

Using "Tory voters" in this context is intended to describe Sunak's intended audience whom he wants to convince to support the Tory party at the next GE. It's easier that writing all that out every time.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

And this is _exactly_ why Rishi is taking the path he is because he knows what the reaction on the other side will be. You are playing _right_ into his hands.

It’s not personal, we block anyone who has expressed what we see as bigoted views on the forum. Don’t think it will have any effect on the Tories’ chances at the next election though!

I genuinely don’t care who you block. I do care that you don’t seem to understand that you are being played like a puppet by the Tories. They _want_ this type of reaction because that is what they will use in the election. Purists always make great political opponents because the purity of their position doesn’t allow them to accommodate nuance. "

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

Weird. Blocking someone who has never DM'd, nor ever shown an interest in you.

Enjoy that echo chamber."

It’s my fave part of the forums. Someone I didn’t know existed is so upset someone on the other side of the country doesn’t think exactly like I do that they’ve decided to block them, even though that does literally nothing to their ability to see whatever content on the forum has upset them so much.

There’s a few very smart people on the forum that see an opinion they don’t agree with and really shut it down with a well thought out response

Then there’s the ones that think “we won’t meet you for sex” is the highest level of debate they can muster up. What melts

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

Weird. Blocking someone who has never DM'd, nor ever shown an interest in you.

Enjoy that echo chamber."

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Hmmm not sure about that. You can support certain things and not others.

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?

I probably read that wrong. Nobody should be harassed. But one can support the right to be whoever you want to be but have different views on things like toilets/wards/prisons/women’s refuges etc so in that way it’s not unconditional but yes apologies you’re right, without harassment.

The issue is that when it comes to the specifics around the particulars you are mentioning there is no black and white, it’s a nuanced issue that often comes down to individual cases.

The reasons it should be obvious this ‘policy’ about hospital wards is not serious though, and no more than an attempt to take the votes of bigots, is that it implies trans men should go into women’s wards, which is nonsensical and a greater affront to women’s rights. It would be illegal, as no court would allow the policy to be enacted, and it would be impossible to implement in any case, as with 7.5 million people on hospital waiting lists, hospital staff have neither the resources or desire to implement discriminatory ward policies at the behest of a drowning government desperately chasing votes.

Am I missing something fundamental here? You accuse me of being a bigot because I say I support women’s rights and then you say:

“ it implies trans men should go into women’s wards, which is nonsensical and a greater affront to women’s rights.”

How does that differ from my “bigoted” position?"

This is getting a little tiresome. Where were you accused of being a bigot?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

Weird. Blocking someone who has never DM'd, nor ever shown an interest in you.

Enjoy that echo chamber.

It’s my fave part of the forums. Someone I didn’t know existed is so upset someone on the other side of the country doesn’t think exactly like I do that they’ve decided to block them, even though that does literally nothing to their ability to see whatever content on the forum has upset them so much.

There’s a few very smart people on the forum that see an opinion they don’t agree with and really shut it down with a well thought out response

Then there’s the ones that think “we won’t meet you for sex” is the highest level of debate they can muster up. What melts "

You know you're right. They're more than welcome to form an opinion of me, and block me, l I think it says more about them than me though.

I disagree with a lot of people on these forums but never have I blocked anyone unless they get in my DMs and won't leave me alone.

In fact, just yesterday I had someone in my DM disagreeing with me re. a forum topic. Turns out we had a really good conversation because we were able to listen to each others pov, although in the end we didn't agree, it was rather pleasant, and refreshing.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

I'm struggling to follow this now.

I'm out

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm struggling to follow this now.

I'm out "

Blocked

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

Weird. Blocking someone who has never DM'd, nor ever shown an interest in you.

Enjoy that echo chamber.

It’s my fave part of the forums. Someone I didn’t know existed is so upset someone on the other side of the country doesn’t think exactly like I do that they’ve decided to block them, even though that does literally nothing to their ability to see whatever content on the forum has upset them so much.

There’s a few very smart people on the forum that see an opinion they don’t agree with and really shut it down with a well thought out response

Then there’s the ones that think “we won’t meet you for sex” is the highest level of debate they can muster up. What melts "

It’s curious you think blocking is about who would or wouldn’t meet you for sex. We block people as a simple reminder to us that their views on the forum can be ignored. They wouldn’t be memorable otherwise.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *estinyIsAllCouple
over a year ago

Staffordshire

The conservatives. A party of tossers, voted for by tossers.

D x

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

Weird. Blocking someone who has never DM'd, nor ever shown an interest in you.

Enjoy that echo chamber.

It’s my fave part of the forums. Someone I didn’t know existed is so upset someone on the other side of the country doesn’t think exactly like I do that they’ve decided to block them, even though that does literally nothing to their ability to see whatever content on the forum has upset them so much.

There’s a few very smart people on the forum that see an opinion they don’t agree with and really shut it down with a well thought out response

Then there’s the ones that think “we won’t meet you for sex” is the highest level of debate they can muster up. What melts

It’s curious you think blocking is about who would or wouldn’t meet you for sex. We block people as a simple reminder to us that their views on the forum can be ignored. They wouldn’t be memorable otherwise."

I would only decide to ignore a view if I found the content to be worth ignoring

Otherwise your just in an echo chamber where only opinions you like you read and only opinions from people you’ve approved are listened to

Its the actions of someone not open to debate, but just looking to confirm their own beliefs

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

This is getting a little tiresome. Where were you accused of being a bigot?"

My bad - I apologise. I didn’t realise that you totally agreed with my position but glad to see that we are on the same page

I guess the implication that I was a nazi appeasing facist and that I was wrong to think that trans rights were unconditional and the fact that those positions were associated with bigots led me to believe that you thought that of me. I can now see how I got that wrong. Easy mistake to make on my part

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

Weird. Blocking someone who has never DM'd, nor ever shown an interest in you.

Enjoy that echo chamber.

It’s my fave part of the forums. Someone I didn’t know existed is so upset someone on the other side of the country doesn’t think exactly like I do that they’ve decided to block them, even though that does literally nothing to their ability to see whatever content on the forum has upset them so much.

There’s a few very smart people on the forum that see an opinion they don’t agree with and really shut it down with a well thought out response

Then there’s the ones that think “we won’t meet you for sex” is the highest level of debate they can muster up. What melts

It’s curious you think blocking is about who would or wouldn’t meet you for sex. We block people as a simple reminder to us that their views on the forum can be ignored. They wouldn’t be memorable otherwise.

I would only decide to ignore a view if I found the content to be worth ignoring

Otherwise your just in an echo chamber where only opinions you like you read and only opinions from people you’ve approved are listened to

Its the actions of someone not open to debate, but just looking to confirm their own beliefs "

You’re free to pay attention to whoever you like. If we find people post what we consider to be bigoted opinions here, which are not worth consideration or engagement, we block them.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island

I saw that yesterday and thought “what?”

I’m no fan of left or right wing politics, but his statement yesterday regarding trans people was a full on head scratcher, what have Trans people got to do with the issues in this country!?

It’s coming across as full on swerving from the train disaster to “quick, let’s distract them”.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

Weird. Blocking someone who has never DM'd, nor ever shown an interest in you.

Enjoy that echo chamber.

It’s my fave part of the forums. Someone I didn’t know existed is so upset someone on the other side of the country doesn’t think exactly like I do that they’ve decided to block them, even though that does literally nothing to their ability to see whatever content on the forum has upset them so much.

There’s a few very smart people on the forum that see an opinion they don’t agree with and really shut it down with a well thought out response

Then there’s the ones that think “we won’t meet you for sex” is the highest level of debate they can muster up. What melts

It’s curious you think blocking is about who would or wouldn’t meet you for sex. We block people as a simple reminder to us that their views on the forum can be ignored. They wouldn’t be memorable otherwise.

I would only decide to ignore a view if I found the content to be worth ignoring

Otherwise your just in an echo chamber where only opinions you like you read and only opinions from people you’ve approved are listened to

Its the actions of someone not open to debate, but just looking to confirm their own beliefs

You’re free to pay attention to whoever you like. If we find people post what we consider to be bigoted opinions here, which are not worth consideration or engagement, we block them. "

Do you only ever block people who you feel are bigots? Or do you block people who inundate you inbox? Someone you think you'd never meet because of looks? Someone who isn't looking for different things to you?

I'm just wondering, as apparently I'm not 'memorable' but you've defintely labelled me as a bigot.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

Weird. Blocking someone who has never DM'd, nor ever shown an interest in you.

Enjoy that echo chamber.

It’s my fave part of the forums. Someone I didn’t know existed is so upset someone on the other side of the country doesn’t think exactly like I do that they’ve decided to block them, even though that does literally nothing to their ability to see whatever content on the forum has upset them so much.

There’s a few very smart people on the forum that see an opinion they don’t agree with and really shut it down with a well thought out response

Then there’s the ones that think “we won’t meet you for sex” is the highest level of debate they can muster up. What melts

It’s curious you think blocking is about who would or wouldn’t meet you for sex. We block people as a simple reminder to us that their views on the forum can be ignored. They wouldn’t be memorable otherwise.

I would only decide to ignore a view if I found the content to be worth ignoring

Otherwise your just in an echo chamber where only opinions you like you read and only opinions from people you’ve approved are listened to

Its the actions of someone not open to debate, but just looking to confirm their own beliefs

You’re free to pay attention to whoever you like. If we find people post what we consider to be bigoted opinions here, which are not worth consideration or engagement, we block them. "

Just point it out, you’ve essentially created your own echo chamber

Smart people play the point, not the person

That’s why I try to remember as little about the person posting as possible and only the point they are making

Because if it truly is a bad point, and I can make a better one, I won’t have to rely on “well we blocked 9 months ago for a comment we don’t remember, so this comment is to be ignored too”

To each their own, im sure an echo chamber is extremely comforting for those that need one

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

This is getting a little tiresome. Where were you accused of being a bigot?

My bad - I apologise. I didn’t realise that you totally agreed with my position but glad to see that we are on the same page

I guess the implication that I was a nazi appeasing facist and that I was wrong to think that trans rights were unconditional and the fact that those positions were associated with bigots led me to believe that you thought that of me. I can now see how I got that wrong. Easy mistake to make on my part "

Yes, you do seem to have got yourself confused, as you have invented implications that weren’t there. But the posts are still all there above, you can read them at your leisure, and happy to engage further if you have any questions.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

You accuse someone of being hostile whilst telling them they 'need to take a long hard look at yourself'

All that's happening here is you're trying to shut done debate because you say it isn't up for debate.

A large percentage of people certainly do think its up for debate.

I agree that the hostile attitude of the trans (and undying allies) community whenever this topic is raised does more harm than good.

You are blocked because your opinion is of no interest, sorry.

Weird. Blocking someone who has never DM'd, nor ever shown an interest in you.

Enjoy that echo chamber.

It’s my fave part of the forums. Someone I didn’t know existed is so upset someone on the other side of the country doesn’t think exactly like I do that they’ve decided to block them, even though that does literally nothing to their ability to see whatever content on the forum has upset them so much.

There’s a few very smart people on the forum that see an opinion they don’t agree with and really shut it down with a well thought out response

Then there’s the ones that think “we won’t meet you for sex” is the highest level of debate they can muster up. What melts

It’s curious you think blocking is about who would or wouldn’t meet you for sex. We block people as a simple reminder to us that their views on the forum can be ignored. They wouldn’t be memorable otherwise.

I would only decide to ignore a view if I found the content to be worth ignoring

Otherwise your just in an echo chamber where only opinions you like you read and only opinions from people you’ve approved are listened to

Its the actions of someone not open to debate, but just looking to confirm their own beliefs

You’re free to pay attention to whoever you like. If we find people post what we consider to be bigoted opinions here, which are not worth consideration or engagement, we block them. "

So you must have thought my post was bigoted then? All I did was post a transcript of what RS actually said.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"I saw that yesterday and thought “what?”

I’m no fan of left or right wing politics, but his statement yesterday regarding trans people was a full on head scratcher, what have Trans people got to do with the issues in this country!?

It’s coming across as full on swerving from the train disaster to “quick, let’s distract them”. "

It's the straight ones you've got to look out for.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"The conservatives. A party of tossers, voted for by tossers.

D x"

More tossers than voted for the other lot at the time.. Was one hell of a bukake session

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am literally postin this on all my socials and want to do the same here too.

After our PMs comments today, i just want to give my full and heart felt support to our beautiful trans community!

#TransRightsAreHumanRights

"

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional."

Who says anything should be unconditional?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

As an independent observer it sounds like there are bigots on both ends of the spectrum.

Both as bad as each other

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"The fact that Rishi also mentioned that “it shouldn’t be controversial that parents should know what their children are being taught in school about relationships”

What has that got to do with transgender people? It seems completely unnecessary. Not to mention children are always dragged into the conversation

I have no idea if the context but the statement you quote seems reasonable. Agree it doesn't have anything to do with any gender. Just parents having input into their child's education.

I like to know what mine is being taught at school regarding this. To be honest though kids aren’t that bothered. My daughter’s friend has a dad who is trans and I expected lots of questions but I didn’t get any. Which I see as a good thing really. "

I'm not convinced that it's a good thing for a 9 year old to come home in tears because he's worried he is bi... Maybe it's part of the journey for kids these days... We will eventually find out whether it's for better or for worse.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

Hadn’t hear another other than the hospitals thing till a second ago. What a vile human being.

I alway saw Priti Patel’s comments on Suella and thought ‘what a fucking cheek’

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford


"Hadn’t hear another other than the hospitals thing till a second ago. What a vile human being.

I alway saw Priti Patel’s comments on Suella and thought ‘what a fucking cheek’ "

What did she say

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts


"The fact that Rishi also mentioned that “it shouldn’t be controversial that parents should know what their children are being taught in school about relationships”

What has that got to do with transgender people? It seems completely unnecessary. Not to mention children are always dragged into the conversation

I have no idea if the context but the statement you quote seems reasonable. Agree it doesn't have anything to do with any gender. Just parents having input into their child's education.

I like to know what mine is being taught at school regarding this. To be honest though kids aren’t that bothered. My daughter’s friend has a dad who is trans and I expected lots of questions but I didn’t get any. Which I see as a good thing really.

I'm not convinced that it's a good thing for a 9 year old to come home in tears because he's worried he is bi... Maybe it's part of the journey for kids these days... We will eventually find out whether it's for better or for worse. "

I didn’t say that. I said it was a good thing she didn’t ask loads of questions which to be honest I had expected her to. I think 9 is too young to be taught about same sex relationships etc. but that’s another thread/another topic.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"

#stopThePlaygroundNameCalling

You need to take a long hard look at yourself if your sympathy for the right to exist of human beings is diminished because you think people are insulting you.

Besides, no-one has called you a bigot as far as can be seen. If people agree with Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman in their attitudes to the rights and existence of trans people they are bigots, and this isn’t a point that is open to debate.

Trans people’s rights are not counter to Women’s rights. Trans women are women, these rights are one and the same. If someone claims to be pro women’s rights to the diminishment of trans people’s rights, they are either bigots or fascists. And again, this is a point that is not open to debate.

At what point did I say I was anti trans? I have said above I am naturally sympathetic. I am also naturally sympathetic to biological women’s concerns but, if pushed, I am more sympathetic to the latter.

I want to advance trans causes but I genuinely believe the current strident approach isn’t working. This is a case in point - you are attacking someone who should be an ally. How is that working out for you?

You seem very hostile. Nowhere above have you been accused of being anti-trans.

Being an ally to trans people for their equal right to exist free of harassment should be unconditional.

Who says anything should be unconditional? "

What conditions would make it acceptable to you that trans people cannot exist equally without harassment?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *bostCouple
over a year ago

glasgow

100% agree with OP. Our Prime Minister’s comments were a disgrace and made me sick to be British. The rapture from the audience just reinforced both of our views on the Tories in general too.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ilfCrumpet9Man
over a year ago

Wirral

Defo love and support

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"As an independent observer it sounds like there are bigots on both ends of the spectrum.

Both as bad as each other "

Those who don't hate trans people are as bad as those who do?

Astounding.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"As an independent observer it sounds like there are bigots on both ends of the spectrum.

Both as bad as each other

Those who don't hate trans people are as bad as those who do?

Astounding."

Someone opposing certain things trans rights activists want doesn't make them a 'trans hater'.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford


"Hadn’t hear another other than the hospitals thing till a second ago. What a vile human being.

I alway saw Priti Patel’s comments on Suella and thought ‘what a fucking cheek’ "

That her comments around multi culturalism were attention seeking and make no sense

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *horesonWellesMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

This thread really shows what some of the big issues are:

- People don't understand

- People ask a public forum what's going on

- Dog whistles and inadvertently transphobic things are said

- Trans people get frustrated and angry because we deal with this 24/7

- Nat-zis and fascists, oh my!

- Everything goes to shit.

If you're uninformed on who trans people are, the rights we have and don't have, the legislative changes we want made, and what's transphobic (& interphobic) about phrases like "men are men & women are women" and "only two sexes"

G00gle it.

For the love of God. G00gle it. Check the sources on for you're reading but there's a million and one articles written in very simple terms explaining all the answers you want and need.

Trans people get debated and asked to explain ourselves in bad faith _constantly_ during our day to day life. Sometimes you're the 100th person today asking us to do that labour and we lose our temper. We still deserve your support even when we're angry. If your allyship is only there when we're polite and thanking you - you're not an ally.

Thank you for your time, I'll be taking no questions

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By * and R cple4Couple
over a year ago

swansea


"This thread really shows what some of the big issues are:

- People don't understand

- People ask a public forum what's going on

- Dog whistles and inadvertently transphobic things are said

- Trans people get frustrated and angry because we deal with this 24/7

- Nat-zis and fascists, oh my!

- Everything goes to shit.

If you're uninformed on who trans people are, the rights we have and don't have, the legislative changes we want made, and what's transphobic (& interphobic) about phrases like "men are men & women are women" and "only two sexes"

G00gle it.

For the love of God. G00gle it. Check the sources on for you're reading but there's a million and one articles written in very simple terms explaining all the answers you want and need.

Trans people get debated and asked to explain ourselves in bad faith _constantly_ during our day to day life. Sometimes you're the 100th person today asking us to do that labour and we lose our temper. We still deserve your support even when we're angry. If your allyship is only there when we're polite and thanking you - you're not an ally.

Thank you for your time, I'll be taking no questions "

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This thread really shows what some of the big issues are:

- People don't understand

- People ask a public forum what's going on

- Dog whistles and inadvertently transphobic things are said

- Trans people get frustrated and angry because we deal with this 24/7

- Nat-zis and fascists, oh my!

- Everything goes to shit.

If you're uninformed on who trans people are, the rights we have and don't have, the legislative changes we want made, and what's transphobic (& interphobic) about phrases like "men are men & women are women" and "only two sexes"

G00gle it.

For the love of God. G00gle it. Check the sources on for you're reading but there's a million and one articles written in very simple terms explaining all the answers you want and need.

Trans people get debated and asked to explain ourselves in bad faith _constantly_ during our day to day life. Sometimes you're the 100th person today asking us to do that labour and we lose our temper. We still deserve your support even when we're angry. If your allyship is only there when we're polite and thanking you - you're not an ally.

Thank you for your time, I'll be taking no questions "

I'm not asking any questions. I just disagree having informed myself at length for several years. There are only two sexes. People with DSDs are not "proof" that there are more sexes. Sex is binary because there are only two gametes. It's not complicated. Gender is complicated. Sex is not.

People can identify as they wish and I respect that. But that is gender, it is not sex. People cannot change sex. Your belief that people can change sex and that there are more than two sexes is just that - a belief. Gender identity is not a protected characteristic - sex is. None of the things I've said deny anyone's existence or human rights.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think his statement is important correct and not transphobic because the opposite is often used to shut down discussion

Here’s an example

Should trans women be able to compete with cis woman in sports m

That’s a complex situation that needs an honest discussion about the pros and cons of both sides

Inevitably what happens is one side says

“Well yes, because trans women are women. DUH!”

It’s an attempt to completely shut down any rational discussion about a complex issue

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"This thread really shows what some of the big issues are:

- People don't understand

- People ask a public forum what's going on

- Dog whistles and inadvertently transphobic things are said

- Trans people get frustrated and angry because we deal with this 24/7

- Nat-zis and fascists, oh my!

- Everything goes to shit.

If you're uninformed on who trans people are, the rights we have and don't have, the legislative changes we want made, and what's transphobic (& interphobic) about phrases like "men are men & women are women" and "only two sexes"

G00gle it.

For the love of God. G00gle it. Check the sources on for you're reading but there's a million and one articles written in very simple terms explaining all the answers you want and need.

Trans people get debated and asked to explain ourselves in bad faith _constantly_ during our day to day life. Sometimes you're the 100th person today asking us to do that labour and we lose our temper. We still deserve your support even when we're angry. If your allyship is only there when we're polite and thanking you - you're not an ally.

Thank you for your time, I'll be taking no questions

I'm not asking any questions. I just disagree having informed myself at length for several years. There are only two sexes. People with DSDs are not "proof" that there are more sexes. Sex is binary because there are only two gametes. It's not complicated. Gender is complicated. Sex is not.

People can identify as they wish and I respect that. But that is gender, it is not sex. People cannot change sex. Your belief that people can change sex and that there are more than two sexes is just that - a belief. Gender identity is not a protected characteristic - sex is. None of the things I've said deny anyone's existence or human rights. "

Did you read the Equality Act at any point during these years you informed yourself at length? Gender self-identity is specifically included as a protected characteristic, as below:

‘The Equality Act protects individuals from discrimination and harassment on the basis of a protected characteristic. Protected characteristics include sex (being a man or a woman) and gender reassignment (being an individual who is ‘proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process or part of a process to reassign their sex’). There is no requirement for a trans person to have any kind of medical supervision or intervention in order to be protected from gender reassignment discrimination. A person does not need a Gender Recognition Certificate to be protected under the characteristic of gender reassignment.’

In short, anyone who believes they are at any stage in the process of changing their sex from female to male or vice versa, by nature of their gender, is protected.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am literally postin this on all my socials and want to do the same here too.

After our PMs comments today, i just want to give my full and heart felt support to our beautiful trans community!

#TransRightsAreHumanRights

"

Agreed

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"This thread really shows what some of the big issues are:

- People don't understand

- People ask a public forum what's going on

- Dog whistles and inadvertently transphobic things are said

- Trans people get frustrated and angry because we deal with this 24/7

- Nat-zis and fascists, oh my!

- Everything goes to shit.

If you're uninformed on who trans people are, the rights we have and don't have, the legislative changes we want made, and what's transphobic (& interphobic) about phrases like "men are men & women are women" and "only two sexes"

G00gle it.

For the love of God. G00gle it. Check the sources on for you're reading but there's a million and one articles written in very simple terms explaining all the answers you want and need.

Trans people get debated and asked to explain ourselves in bad faith _constantly_ during our day to day life. Sometimes you're the 100th person today asking us to do that labour and we lose our temper. We still deserve your support even when we're angry. If your allyship is only there when we're polite and thanking you - you're not an ally.

Thank you for your time, I'll be taking no questions "

Good debate. Emperors new clothes springs to mind. If you shout enough about it, it will become true. If you shout even louder people turn away. As someone already wrote above. The needless aggression and insulting doesn't do them any favours at all. At the same time as recognising and supporting a small minority. Let's not forget to recognise and support the remainder.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields


"I think his statement is important correct and not transphobic because the opposite is often used to shut down discussion

Here’s an example

Should trans women be able to compete with cis woman in sports m

That’s a complex situation that needs an honest discussion about the pros and cons of both sides

Inevitably what happens is one side says

“Well yes, because trans women are women. DUH!”

It’s an attempt to completely shut down any rational discussion about a complex issue"

On the other hand, what happens much more frequently, any discussion on trans rights inevitably ends up with fringe cases like professional sports being used as if it should apply to all aspects of the discussion.

It is commonly used to justify the continued marginalisation of the trans community and is forced into the discussion above more pertinent aspects. Such as the 2630 instances of hate crime against trans people. Or the 48% dissatisfaction with the police when reporting these crimes.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"This thread really shows what some of the big issues are:

- People don't understand

- People ask a public forum what's going on

- Dog whistles and inadvertently transphobic things are said

- Trans people get frustrated and angry because we deal with this 24/7

- Nat-zis and fascists, oh my!

- Everything goes to shit.

If you're uninformed on who trans people are, the rights we have and don't have, the legislative changes we want made, and what's transphobic (& interphobic) about phrases like "men are men & women are women" and "only two sexes"

G00gle it.

For the love of God. G00gle it. Check the sources on for you're reading but there's a million and one articles written in very simple terms explaining all the answers you want and need.

Trans people get debated and asked to explain ourselves in bad faith _constantly_ during our day to day life. Sometimes you're the 100th person today asking us to do that labour and we lose our temper. We still deserve your support even when we're angry. If your allyship is only there when we're polite and thanking you - you're not an ally.

Thank you for your time, I'll be taking no questions

I'm not asking any questions. I just disagree having informed myself at length for several years. There are only two sexes. People with DSDs are not "proof" that there are more sexes. Sex is binary because there are only two gametes. It's not complicated. Gender is complicated. Sex is not.

People can identify as they wish and I respect that. But that is gender, it is not sex. People cannot change sex. Your belief that people can change sex and that there are more than two sexes is just that - a belief. Gender identity is not a protected characteristic - sex is. None of the things I've said deny anyone's existence or human rights.

Did you read the Equality Act at any point during these years you informed yourself at length? Gender self-identity is specifically included as a protected characteristic, as below:

‘The Equality Act protects individuals from discrimination and harassment on the basis of a protected characteristic. Protected characteristics include sex (being a man or a woman) and gender reassignment (being an individual who is ‘proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process or part of a process to reassign their sex’). There is no requirement for a trans person to have any kind of medical supervision or intervention in order to be protected from gender reassignment discrimination. A person does not need a Gender Recognition Certificate to be protected under the characteristic of gender reassignment.’

In short, anyone who believes they are at any stage in the process of changing their sex from female to male or vice versa, by nature of their gender, is protected."

Protected from what?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think his statement is important correct and not transphobic because the opposite is often used to shut down discussion

Here’s an example

Should trans women be able to compete with cis woman in sports m

That’s a complex situation that needs an honest discussion about the pros and cons of both sides

Inevitably what happens is one side says

“Well yes, because trans women are women. DUH!”

It’s an attempt to completely shut down any rational discussion about a complex issue

On the other hand, what happens much more frequently, any discussion on trans rights inevitably ends up with fringe cases like professional sports being used as if it should apply to all aspects of the discussion.

It is commonly used to justify the continued marginalisation of the trans community and is forced into the discussion above more pertinent aspects. Such as the 2630 instances of hate crime against trans people. Or the 48% dissatisfaction with the police when reporting these crimes."

As long as we can both agree that neither side is perfect and as usual it’s the people in the middle trying to have a rational debate that get silenced, insulted and abused

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This thread really shows what some of the big issues are:

- People don't understand

- People ask a public forum what's going on

- Dog whistles and inadvertently transphobic things are said

- Trans people get frustrated and angry because we deal with this 24/7

- Nat-zis and fascists, oh my!

- Everything goes to shit.

If you're uninformed on who trans people are, the rights we have and don't have, the legislative changes we want made, and what's transphobic (& interphobic) about phrases like "men are men & women are women" and "only two sexes"

G00gle it.

For the love of God. G00gle it. Check the sources on for you're reading but there's a million and one articles written in very simple terms explaining all the answers you want and need.

Trans people get debated and asked to explain ourselves in bad faith _constantly_ during our day to day life. Sometimes you're the 100th person today asking us to do that labour and we lose our temper. We still deserve your support even when we're angry. If your allyship is only there when we're polite and thanking you - you're not an ally.

Thank you for your time, I'll be taking no questions

I'm not asking any questions. I just disagree having informed myself at length for several years. There are only two sexes. People with DSDs are not "proof" that there are more sexes. Sex is binary because there are only two gametes. It's not complicated. Gender is complicated. Sex is not.

People can identify as they wish and I respect that. But that is gender, it is not sex. People cannot change sex. Your belief that people can change sex and that there are more than two sexes is just that - a belief. Gender identity is not a protected characteristic - sex is. None of the things I've said deny anyone's existence or human rights. "

Gender is a protected characteristic under the human rights act and gender reassignment discrimination means you cannot discriminate against trans people. Not sure where you got your info from but it must be wrong?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol


"This thread really shows what some of the big issues are:

- People don't understand

- People ask a public forum what's going on

- Dog whistles and inadvertently transphobic things are said

- Trans people get frustrated and angry because we deal with this 24/7

- Nat-zis and fascists, oh my!

- Everything goes to shit.

If you're uninformed on who trans people are, the rights we have and don't have, the legislative changes we want made, and what's transphobic (& interphobic) about phrases like "men are men & women are women" and "only two sexes"

G00gle it.

For the love of God. G00gle it. Check the sources on for you're reading but there's a million and one articles written in very simple terms explaining all the answers you want and need.

Trans people get debated and asked to explain ourselves in bad faith _constantly_ during our day to day life. Sometimes you're the 100th person today asking us to do that labour and we lose our temper. We still deserve your support even when we're angry. If your allyship is only there when we're polite and thanking you - you're not an ally.

Thank you for your time, I'll be taking no questions

I'm not asking any questions. I just disagree having informed myself at length for several years. There are only two sexes. People with DSDs are not "proof" that there are more sexes. Sex is binary because there are only two gametes. It's not complicated. Gender is complicated. Sex is not.

People can identify as they wish and I respect that. But that is gender, it is not sex. People cannot change sex. Your belief that people can change sex and that there are more than two sexes is just that - a belief. Gender identity is not a protected characteristic - sex is. None of the things I've said deny anyone's existence or human rights.

Did you read the Equality Act at any point during these years you informed yourself at length? Gender self-identity is specifically included as a protected characteristic, as below:

‘The Equality Act protects individuals from discrimination and harassment on the basis of a protected characteristic. Protected characteristics include sex (being a man or a woman) and gender reassignment (being an individual who is ‘proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process or part of a process to reassign their sex’). There is no requirement for a trans person to have any kind of medical supervision or intervention in order to be protected from gender reassignment discrimination. A person does not need a Gender Recognition Certificate to be protected under the characteristic of gender reassignment.’

In short, anyone who believes they are at any stage in the process of changing their sex from female to male or vice versa, by nature of their gender, is protected.

Protected from what? "

Protected from from discrimination and harassment on the basis of a protected characteristic.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"This thread really shows what some of the big issues are:

- People don't understand

- People ask a public forum what's going on

- Dog whistles and inadvertently transphobic things are said

- Trans people get frustrated and angry because we deal with this 24/7

- Nat-zis and fascists, oh my!

- Everything goes to shit.

If you're uninformed on who trans people are, the rights we have and don't have, the legislative changes we want made, and what's transphobic (& interphobic) about phrases like "men are men & women are women" and "only two sexes"

G00gle it.

For the love of God. G00gle it. Check the sources on for you're reading but there's a million and one articles written in very simple terms explaining all the answers you want and need.

Trans people get debated and asked to explain ourselves in bad faith _constantly_ during our day to day life. Sometimes you're the 100th person today asking us to do that labour and we lose our temper. We still deserve your support even when we're angry. If your allyship is only there when we're polite and thanking you - you're not an ally.

Thank you for your time, I'll be taking no questions

I'm not asking any questions. I just disagree having informed myself at length for several years. There are only two sexes. People with DSDs are not "proof" that there are more sexes. Sex is binary because there are only two gametes. It's not complicated. Gender is complicated. Sex is not.

People can identify as they wish and I respect that. But that is gender, it is not sex. People cannot change sex. Your belief that people can change sex and that there are more than two sexes is just that - a belief. Gender identity is not a protected characteristic - sex is. None of the things I've said deny anyone's existence or human rights.

Did you read the Equality Act at any point during these years you informed yourself at length? Gender self-identity is specifically included as a protected characteristic, as below:

‘The Equality Act protects individuals from discrimination and harassment on the basis of a protected characteristic. Protected characteristics include sex (being a man or a woman) and gender reassignment (being an individual who is ‘proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process or part of a process to reassign their sex’). There is no requirement for a trans person to have any kind of medical supervision or intervention in order to be protected from gender reassignment discrimination. A person does not need a Gender Recognition Certificate to be protected under the characteristic of gender reassignment.’

In short, anyone who believes they are at any stage in the process of changing their sex from female to male or vice versa, by nature of their gender, is protected."

The Equality act speaks of gender reassignment (should be sex reassignment). A large percentage of trans people do not wish to change sex, therefore, those people would not be protected.

That part of the act is very very badly written.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dont have an issue with what a person identifies as however I do mind when I, as a woman, am now known as cis woman. No, I am a woman. To some this may seem insignificant but why, it upsets me so are my feelings no longer valid?

I see a lot online about the issues experienced by trans people but rarely any support around the impact of their rights on others. As can be seen in this thread, anyone discussing anything in disagreement with trans people getting what they want is shut down and considered phobic. Wheres the equality in that? Things like ex cons inciting people to punch others in the face because they dont agree with them doesnt help. I do believe the vast majority of teans people just live their lives quietly and unnoticed but the more toxic groups must take some responsibility for some peoples fear and lack of understanding.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your all blocked

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Context.

He said that men are men and women are women

Absolutely shocking I know

People think it’s a Tory issue too, labour hold the same views

There are bigots in all major parties.

This statement is _exactly_ why Rishi is going down the path he is. He knows that the majority of people ultimately side with the men are men/women are women argument because that’s what they see in a daily basis. He knows that if he can get trans people to call the public bigots then the public will think “hold on, those people are talking about me” and will react negatively to the side that is calling them bigots.

The trans community needs to learn to cool it down and stop being so strident. That way they will win hearts and minds but the current approach isn’t working.

The majority of people don’t share that view, as polls have shown time and time again.

The majority of journalists allowed to opine about the subject in the mainstream media do share that view, which is why there is such a distortion over the level of support for this form of fascism.

Suggesting that trans people and decent people of conscience appease fascism directed at trans people by ‘cooling it down’ or being less ‘strident’ is exactly what people would have said to Jewish people in Germany in the early 1930s, a situation which is a direct analogue to what we are seeing today."

Using the plight of Jews in pre-war Germany in an argument on a sex site is extremely offensive to Jewish people, of which I am proudly one. Are you aware that in the entire course of human history, only 2 national political parties have been accused, and been found guilty of anti-semitic racism? The Nazi party at Nuremburg in 1946, and the Uk's Labour party by the Equality and Human Rights Commission in 2020.

Bess

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