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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. " Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. " Yes. Pushing is common assault. | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. " If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Yes. Pushing is common assault. " He is allowed to detain using reasonable force if he suspects she is shoplifting. The law isn't as black and white as you may want to believe in this case. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. " Pushing someone is not restraining them Do police push people to restrain them ? Flipping heck  | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner " I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Pushing someone is not restraining them Do police push people to restrain them ? Flipping heck "Yes actually, I have seen the police push people back. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Yes. Pushing is common assault. He is allowed to detain using reasonable force if he suspects she is shoplifting. The law isn't as black and white as you may want to believe in this case. " Indeed, and that will be decided by people better placed to judge than anyone on this forum. The shopkeeper was undoubtedly the instigator and aggressor. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Yes. Pushing is common assault. He is allowed to detain using reasonable force if he suspects she is shoplifting. The law isn't as black and white as you may want to believe in this case. Indeed, and that will be decided by people better placed to judge than anyone on this forum. The shopkeeper was undoubtedly the instigator and aggressor." I genuinely cannot see how the shopkeeper is the instigator and aggressor here. Was he wrong to grab her throat? Yes. That doesn't make him the instigator. You'll argue he pushed her first. I'll argue he's stopping her from stealing his goods. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Yes. Pushing is common assault. He is allowed to detain using reasonable force if he suspects she is shoplifting. The law isn't as black and white as you may want to believe in this case. Indeed, and that will be decided by people better placed to judge than anyone on this forum. The shopkeeper was undoubtedly the instigator and aggressor. I genuinely cannot see how the shopkeeper is the instigator and aggressor here. Was he wrong to grab her throat? Yes. That doesn't make him the instigator. You'll argue he pushed her first. I'll argue he's stopping her from stealing his goods. " We can argue about the reasons for the push, but we can’t deny that he pushed her first! | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time)." You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Yes. Pushing is common assault. He is allowed to detain using reasonable force if he suspects she is shoplifting. The law isn't as black and white as you may want to believe in this case. Indeed, and that will be decided by people better placed to judge than anyone on this forum. The shopkeeper was undoubtedly the instigator and aggressor. I genuinely cannot see how the shopkeeper is the instigator and aggressor here. Was he wrong to grab her throat? Yes. That doesn't make him the instigator. You'll argue he pushed her first. I'll argue he's stopping her from stealing his goods. We can argue about the reasons for the push, but we can’t deny that he pushed her first! " That doesn't make him the instigator. Nor aggressor. His pushing didn't look very aggressive to me. She instigated it by trying to leave the shop without paying for the goods in her hand. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Pushing someone is not restraining them Do police push people to restrain them ? Flipping heck
Yes actually, I have seen the police push people back. "I said do police push people to restrain them? No they have hold of their hands to restrain a person | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Yes. Pushing is common assault. He is allowed to detain using reasonable force if he suspects she is shoplifting. The law isn't as black and white as you may want to believe in this case. Indeed, and that will be decided by people better placed to judge than anyone on this forum. The shopkeeper was undoubtedly the instigator and aggressor. I genuinely cannot see how the shopkeeper is the instigator and aggressor here. Was he wrong to grab her throat? Yes. That doesn't make him the instigator. You'll argue he pushed her first. I'll argue he's stopping her from stealing his goods. We can argue about the reasons for the push, but we can’t deny that he pushed her first! That doesn't make him the instigator. Nor aggressor. His pushing didn't look very aggressive to me. " It’s a good job you’re not in the legal biz  | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage " You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Yes. Pushing is common assault. He is allowed to detain using reasonable force if he suspects she is shoplifting. The law isn't as black and white as you may want to believe in this case. Indeed, and that will be decided by people better placed to judge than anyone on this forum. The shopkeeper was undoubtedly the instigator and aggressor. I genuinely cannot see how the shopkeeper is the instigator and aggressor here. Was he wrong to grab her throat? Yes. That doesn't make him the instigator. You'll argue he pushed her first. I'll argue he's stopping her from stealing his goods. We can argue about the reasons for the push, but we can’t deny that he pushed her first! That doesn't make him the instigator. Nor aggressor. His pushing didn't look very aggressive to me. It’s a good job you’re not in the legal biz "I guarantee he isn't convicted. | |||
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real Genius | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Yes. Pushing is common assault. He is allowed to detain using reasonable force if he suspects she is shoplifting. The law isn't as black and white as you may want to believe in this case. Indeed, and that will be decided by people better placed to judge than anyone on this forum. The shopkeeper was undoubtedly the instigator and aggressor. I genuinely cannot see how the shopkeeper is the instigator and aggressor here. Was he wrong to grab her throat? Yes. That doesn't make him the instigator. You'll argue he pushed her first. I'll argue he's stopping her from stealing his goods. We can argue about the reasons for the push, but we can’t deny that he pushed her first! That doesn't make him the instigator. Nor aggressor. His pushing didn't look very aggressive to me. It’s a good job you’re not in the legal biz
I guarantee he isn't convicted. "I suspect neither will be. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Pushing someone is not restraining them Do police push people to restrain them ? Flipping heck
Yes actually, I have seen the police push people back.
I said do police push people to restrain them?
No they have hold of their hands to restrain a person "The police are trained and sometimes still would require themselves to push before gaining a 'hold' to allow themselves space  | |||
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"To open this thread up after its been closed is just dumb. You have no care to how that woman was treated, playing it on the fence trying to defend the talk If them If she was arrested for theft it would have been said she wasn't it was assault she got arrested for Which just shows how backwards this country is, someone defends themselves from common assault and they get arrested first real Genius "Remove the emotion and you might get somewhere. The thread wasn't finished, it just came to an end because of limits. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Yes. Pushing is common assault. He is allowed to detain using reasonable force if he suspects she is shoplifting. The law isn't as black and white as you may want to believe in this case. Indeed, and that will be decided by people better placed to judge than anyone on this forum. The shopkeeper was undoubtedly the instigator and aggressor. I genuinely cannot see how the shopkeeper is the instigator and aggressor here. Was he wrong to grab her throat? Yes. That doesn't make him the instigator. You'll argue he pushed her first. I'll argue he's stopping her from stealing his goods. We can argue about the reasons for the push, but we can’t deny that he pushed her first! That doesn't make him the instigator. Nor aggressor. His pushing didn't look very aggressive to me. It’s a good job you’re not in the legal biz
I guarantee he isn't convicted.
I suspect neither will be. "That we can agree on. | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. " If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist | |||
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"She'll be on the shop's camera, so why is he even making a physical citizen's arrest? Just let her go and report her to the police if you know for sure that she stole. An Andrew Tate fan perhaps? Some women are actually there to be manhandled for many young people today, it's considered a sign of virility. That couldn't be more pathetic in my opinion. pt" Probably because the police won't do anything but give him a crime number, I haven't seen any cctv footage only from a mobile that doesn't show the beginning, He does man handle her rough but she is giving as much as she's taking, I haven't got any sympathy for her, she was attempting to rob from his store, As for the protestors there is bigger issues to get around then trying to defend a thief | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist " Just an interesting aside. Do you think the comments written all over the shop front by the protestors are racist? | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Pushing someone is not restraining them Do police push people to restrain them ? Flipping heck
Yes actually, I have seen the police push people back.
I said do police push people to restrain them?
No they have hold of their hands to restrain a person
The police are trained and sometimes still would require themselves to push before gaining a 'hold' to allow themselves space "Some of the police abuse their authority and dismiss their training Just yesterday an officer was punching a teenager in the face when he was already handcuffed Later the same officer pepper sprayed another teenager | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. " Let's simplify the situation, she was not happy with return policy on hair products instead of talking like a normal human being and coming to a resolution with the owner. The woman decides to take it upon herself to shoplift and expected zero consequences. The owner is within in his rights to stop anyone shop lifting, now when someone is being aggressive you can't dance around being passive in this situation. He did what he had to stop this woman doing as she pleases, nothing to do with race or gender. Simples..... | |||
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"To open this thread up after its been closed is just dumb. You have no care to how that woman was treated, playing it on the fence trying to defend the talk If them If she was arrested for theft it would have been said she wasn't it was assault she got arrested for Which just shows how backwards this country is, someone defends themselves from common assault and they get arrested first real Genius
Remove the emotion and you might get somewhere.
The thread wasn't finished, it just came to an end because of limits. "When you are affected by something see how you will like it when a person tells you loose your emotions It's tiring seeing racism from any community and definitely when its done to my own I would never tell a person they're too emotional, they are just as human as myself not a machine, an object or a stuffed toy | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist Just an interesting aside. Do you think the comments written all over the shop front by the protestors are racist? " There's ignorance in every community I haven't been outside the shop myself but I wouldn't be surprised if there are. People are angry and for years black people have felt that a community that sells the food we cook and the products women use in their hair but that community doesn't use it personally themselves don't regard us as anything jus good enough to put money in their tills | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist " This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/12/police-investigate-incident-black-shopper-apparently-grabbed-by-throat This shows the beginning. He stops her from leaving the shop. Over a 'receipt dispute' apparently. She gives back - he grabs her neck to keep her under control. He doesn't let go and they fight. Why? When detain her more? If she shoplifted it would be on cam, but this sounds like it was a different type of dispute. What it is about men and women's necks? (re Andrew Tate and his concept of male choking rights..) Regarding the protests...... As I understand it, the shopkeeper wasn't detained, but she (a black woman) was, and was was bailed. I think some people can see a pattern there. Solidarity to the people of Peckham I say. pt " Round of applause to you 
There is an ongoing pattern that will never die and all the children from generation to generation especially some of the boys will experience racism wether its from police, store owner or another by passer
Racism of any kind will just never die sadly | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Let's simplify the situation, she was not happy with return policy on hair products instead of talking like a normal human being and coming to a resolution with the owner. The woman decides to take it upon herself to shoplift and expected zero consequences. The owner is within in his rights to stop anyone shop lifting, now when someone is being aggressive you can't dance around being passive in this situation. He did what he had to stop this woman doing as she pleases, nothing to do with race or gender. Simples..... " . Simples? It was stone cold assault! He would have never have fought like this with someone white, he knows he'd have been in all kinds of shit. And she is a normal human being, sadly as are you. pt | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Pushing someone is not restraining them Do police push people to restrain them ? Flipping heck "But police are trained to detain someone. An ordinary member of the public is just going to follow instinct I guess  | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen." It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist Just an interesting aside. Do you think the comments written all over the shop front by the protestors are racist? There's ignorance in every community I haven't been outside the shop myself but I wouldn't be surprised if there are. People are angry and for years black people have felt that a community that sells the food we cook and the products women use in their hair but that community doesn't use it personally themselves don't regard us as anything jus good enough to put money in their tills " Thanks for the answer. That’s bizarre thinking among the community to direct such hostility against shop keepers selling a need. Idi Amin like and we all know how that panned out in the end. But I digress. The situation is a big old mess and I hope it’s settled peacefully. I am glad the shop keeper is not pressing charges hopefully people will see sense and we won’t see anything like the Birmingham disorder as people lost their lives over a rumour. | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times " Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Pushing someone is not restraining them Do police push people to restrain them ? Flipping heck
But police are trained to detain someone.
An ordinary member of the public is just going to follow instinct I guess "Follow instinct or follow hatred emotion He had a team of staff the store owner was not on his own and the size of him too just shows he bullies women He wouldn't do it to a man | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Let's simplify the situation, she was not happy with return policy on hair products instead of talking like a normal human being and coming to a resolution with the owner. The woman decides to take it upon herself to shoplift and expected zero consequences. The owner is within in his rights to stop anyone shop lifting, now when someone is being aggressive you can't dance around being passive in this situation. He did what he had to stop this woman doing as she pleases, nothing to do with race or gender. Simples..... . Simples? It was stone cold assault! He would have never have fought like this with someone white, he knows he'd have been in all kinds of shit. And she is a normal human being, sadly as are you. pt " "It was stone cold assault! What a load of shite! Have you seen the bit where she is hitting him ? "He would have never have fought like this with someone white" That's like saying she would never have acted like that if the store owner was black | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Let's simplify the situation, she was not happy with return policy on hair products instead of talking like a normal human being and coming to a resolution with the owner. The woman decides to take it upon herself to shoplift and expected zero consequences. The owner is within in his rights to stop anyone shop lifting, now when someone is being aggressive you can't dance around being passive in this situation. He did what he had to stop this woman doing as she pleases, nothing to do with race or gender. Simples..... . Simples? It was stone cold assault! He would have never have fought like this with someone white, he knows he'd have been in all kinds of shit. And she is a normal human being, sadly as are you. pt "It was stone cold assault! What a load of shite! Have you seen the bit where she is hitting him ? "He would have never have fought like this with someone white" That's like saying she would never have acted like that if the store owner was black " Once again. He pushes her first. That’s assault. Now he may well argue that it was detaining a thief - that’s not for you or I to decide - but pushing someone *is* assault. | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. " Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say | |||
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"Where's the video?" Two different vidoes https://www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/live-peckham-protest-updates-angry-27700369 https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1702022846006857838 | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/12/police-investigate-incident-black-shopper-apparently-grabbed-by-throat This shows the beginning. He stops her from leaving the shop. Over a 'receipt dispute' apparently. She gives back - he grabs her neck to keep her under control. He doesn't let go and they fight. Why? When detain her more? If she shoplifted it would be on cam, but this sounds like it was a different type of dispute. What it is about men and women's necks? (re Andrew Tate and his concept of male choking rights..) Regarding the protests...... As I understand it, the shopkeeper wasn't detained, but she (a black woman) was, and was was bailed. I think some people can see a pattern there. Solidarity to the people of Peckham I say. pt " I am with you on this one. I don't at this stage see a clear indication of shoplifting occurring. If that can't be established then the whole thing is an assault and her actions are defensive. I don't believe the force applied was reasonable. I have now seen the video, the images only captured the worst parts. I still don't think it reasonable or necessary force to detain. From what I have read he has been held under caution, so far and the police are examining other footage and evidence to get a wider context. I can quite understand the protests and if that encourages the police to be thorough then that's a good thing. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Let's simplify the situation, she was not happy with return policy on hair products instead of talking like a normal human being and coming to a resolution with the owner. The woman decides to take it upon herself to shoplift and expected zero consequences. The owner is within in his rights to stop anyone shop lifting, now when someone is being aggressive you can't dance around being passive in this situation. He did what he had to stop this woman doing as she pleases, nothing to do with race or gender. Simples..... . Simples? It was stone cold assault! He would have never have fought like this with someone white, he knows he'd have been in all kinds of shit. And she is a normal human being, sadly as are you. pt "It was stone cold assault! What a load of shite! Have you seen the bit where she is hitting him ? "He would have never have fought like this with someone white" That's like saying she would never have acted like that if the store owner was black Once again. He pushes her first. That’s assault. Now he may well argue that it was detaining a thief - that’s not for you or I to decide - but pushing someone *is* assault." It looked to me that he was pushing her away as she was going at him | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say " I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Let's simplify the situation, she was not happy with return policy on hair products instead of talking like a normal human being and coming to a resolution with the owner. The woman decides to take it upon herself to shoplift and expected zero consequences. The owner is within in his rights to stop anyone shop lifting, now when someone is being aggressive you can't dance around being passive in this situation. He did what he had to stop this woman doing as she pleases, nothing to do with race or gender. Simples..... . Simples? It was stone cold assault! He would have never have fought like this with someone white, he knows he'd have been in all kinds of shit. And she is a normal human being, sadly as are you. pt "It was stone cold assault! What a load of shite! Have you seen the bit where she is hitting him ? "He would have never have fought like this with someone white" That's like saying she would never have acted like that if the store owner was black Once again. He pushes her first. That’s assault. Now he may well argue that it was detaining a thief - that’s not for you or I to decide - but pushing someone *is* assault. It looked to me that he was pushing her away as she was going at him" Going at him? Or trying to leave his store? This is all 6 and two threes. But he put hands on her first - that’s the one undeniable factor. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/12/police-investigate-incident-black-shopper-apparently-grabbed-by-throat This shows the beginning. He stops her from leaving the shop. Over a 'receipt dispute' apparently. She gives back - he grabs her neck to keep her under control. He doesn't let go and they fight. Why? When detain her more? If she shoplifted it would be on cam, but this sounds like it was a different type of dispute. What it is about men and women's necks? (re Andrew Tate and his concept of male choking rights..) Regarding the protests...... As I understand it, the shopkeeper wasn't detained, but she (a black woman) was, and was was bailed. I think some people can see a pattern there. Solidarity to the people of Peckham I say. pt I am with you on this one. I don't at this stage see a clear indication of shoplifting occurring. If that can't be established then the whole thing is an assault and her actions are defensive. I don't believe the force applied was reasonable. I have now seen the video, the images only captured the worst parts. I still don't think it reasonable or necessary force to detain. From what I have read he has been held under caution, so far and the police are examining other footage and evidence to get a wider context. I can quite understand the protests and if that encourages the police to be thorough then that's a good thing." Unless there's an update: The Met Police told MailOnline a woman was arrested on suspicion of assault and later bailed pending further enquiries. The force said the shop worker has not been arrested. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Let's simplify the situation, she was not happy with return policy on hair products instead of talking like a normal human being and coming to a resolution with the owner. The woman decides to take it upon herself to shoplift and expected zero consequences. The owner is within in his rights to stop anyone shop lifting, now when someone is being aggressive you can't dance around being passive in this situation. He did what he had to stop this woman doing as she pleases, nothing to do with race or gender. Simples..... . Simples? It was stone cold assault! He would have never have fought like this with someone white, he knows he'd have been in all kinds of shit. And she is a normal human being, sadly as are you. pt "It was stone cold assault! What a load of shite! Have you seen the bit where she is hitting him ? "He would have never have fought like this with someone white" That's like saying she would never have acted like that if the store owner was black Once again. He pushes her first. That’s assault. Now he may well argue that it was detaining a thief - that’s not for you or I to decide - but pushing someone *is* assault." I haven't seen the full footage and probably no one has, but watch the GBnews vidoe | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you?" You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles | |||
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"To the people saying he was right to defend himself but shouldn't have gripped her round the throat.... have you ever been in a physical assault situation. Your instinct is not to do things in a reasonable manner, it's to ensure they stop doing what they're doing. " Thank you. I tried to say this earlier. When instinct kicks in, often rationality kicks out. | |||
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"I won’t defend shoplifting (except in extreme cases - starving/homeless and in need of food/blankets) but the very idea that anyone could defend the assault (and it was assault) of this woman is beyond me. It was assault from the very first moment he pushed her. Do you truly believe it the push was assault? Or was it restraint? She was trying to leave the shop with his goods. Let's simplify the situation, she was not happy with return policy on hair products instead of talking like a normal human being and coming to a resolution with the owner. The woman decides to take it upon herself to shoplift and expected zero consequences. The owner is within in his rights to stop anyone shop lifting, now when someone is being aggressive you can't dance around being passive in this situation. He did what he had to stop this woman doing as she pleases, nothing to do with race or gender. Simples..... . Simples? It was stone cold assault! He would have never have fought like this with someone white, he knows he'd have been in all kinds of shit. And she is a normal human being, sadly as are you. pt "It was stone cold assault! What a load of shite! Have you seen the bit where she is hitting him ? "He would have never have fought like this with someone white" That's like saying she would never have acted like that if the store owner was black Once again. He pushes her first. That’s assault. Now he may well argue that it was detaining a thief - that’s not for you or I to decide - but pushing someone *is* assault. I haven't seen the full footage and probably no one has, but watch the GBnews vidoe" Videos have been posted on this thread. They’re available on social media. I won’t be gracing GBeebies with my time. | |||
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" Once again. He pushes her first. That’s assault. Now he may well argue that it was detaining a thief - that’s not for you or I to decide - but pushing someone *is* assault." Nope, you can use what you deem reasonable force to prevent a crime being committed. It is only assault if the police or a jury decide that a push is unreasonable in that scenario. B | |||
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" Once again. He pushes her first. That’s assault. Now he may well argue that it was detaining a thief - that’s not for you or I to decide - but pushing someone *is* assault. Nope, you can use what you deem reasonable force to prevent a crime being committed. It is only assault if the police or a jury decide that a push is unreasonable in that scenario. B" So we’re agreed that a push can be deemed assault? As you were. | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles " I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion. | |||
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" Once again. He pushes her first. That’s assault. Now he may well argue that it was detaining a thief - that’s not for you or I to decide - but pushing someone *is* assault. Nope, you can use what you deem reasonable force to prevent a crime being committed. It is only assault if the police or a jury decide that a push is unreasonable in that scenario. B So we’re agreed that a push can be deemed assault? As you were. " You said it *is* assault. I said, it depends on the scenario. They are very different. B | |||
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"I’m not wading in on the race element because as a middle aged white fella, it’s not my place to deem what is or is not felt as racism by anyone else. I can’t walk in anyone else’s shoes. " You do know that being a middle aged white fella you can still feel racism | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion." Living in a community surrounded by shops like the one in Peckham and how they treat black women its done on a regular basis those men don't respect black people You can't learn that until you have lived in it and seen it for yourself It's not a matter of emotion its living facts. The act the store owner did was not his instincts it was his bottled up festering hatred anger towards people in my community | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion. Living in a community surrounded by shops like the one in Peckham and how they treat black women its done on a regular basis those men don't respect black people You can't learn that until you have lived in it and seen it for yourself It's not a matter of emotion its living facts. The act the store owner did was not his instincts it was his bottled up festering hatred anger towards people in my community " Absolutely ridiculous. You do not know that shopkeeper. Who is being racist by stereotyping him? It sure isn't me. | |||
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"I’m not wading in on the race element because as a middle aged white fella, it’s not my place to deem what is or is not felt as racism by anyone else. I can’t walk in anyone else’s shoes. You do know that being a middle aged white fella you can still feel racism " No. I honestly can’t. Not in the same way. I’m very fortunate, a member of the most privileged group in history. I wouldn’t dare dream of putting the discrimination I’ve felt up against others. Not the same ballpark. Not the same league. Not even the same sport. | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion. Living in a community surrounded by shops like the one in Peckham and how they treat black women its done on a regular basis those men don't respect black people You can't learn that until you have lived in it and seen it for yourself It's not a matter of emotion its living facts. The act the store owner did was not his instincts it was his bottled up festering hatred anger towards people in my community Absolutely ridiculous. You do not know that shopkeeper. Who is being racist by stereotyping him? It sure isn't me." As I said believe what you want and to dismiss is just easiest thing to do | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/12/police-investigate-incident-black-shopper-apparently-grabbed-by-throat This shows the beginning. He stops her from leaving the shop. Over a 'receipt dispute' apparently. She gives back - he grabs her neck to keep her under control. He doesn't let go and they fight. Why? When detain her more? If she shoplifted it would be on cam, but this sounds like it was a different type of dispute. What it is about men and women's necks? (re Andrew Tate and his concept of male choking rights..) Regarding the protests...... As I understand it, the shopkeeper wasn't detained, but she (a black woman) was, and was was bailed. I think some people can see a pattern there. Solidarity to the people of Peckham I say. pt I am with you on this one. I don't at this stage see a clear indication of shoplifting occurring. If that can't be established then the whole thing is an assault and her actions are defensive. I don't believe the force applied was reasonable. I have now seen the video, the images only captured the worst parts. I still don't think it reasonable or necessary force to detain. From what I have read he has been held under caution, so far and the police are examining other footage and evidence to get a wider context. I can quite understand the protests and if that encourages the police to be thorough then that's a good thing. Unless there's an update: The Met Police told MailOnline a woman was arrested on suspicion of assault and later bailed pending further enquiries. The force said the shop worker has not been arrested." Sorry I was looking for the article 2hours ago Telegraph: 'Man who ‘choked’ alleged female thief in Peckham interviewed under caution' | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion. Living in a community surrounded by shops like the one in Peckham and how they treat black women its done on a regular basis those men don't respect black people You can't learn that until you have lived in it and seen it for yourself It's not a matter of emotion its living facts. The act the store owner did was not his instincts it was his bottled up festering hatred anger towards people in my community Absolutely ridiculous. You do not know that shopkeeper. Who is being racist by stereotyping him? It sure isn't me. As I said believe what you want and to dismiss is just easiest thing to do " Or we can just go around being racist to other communities because no one has it as bad as us. The funny thing here is you've made a few assumptions about me knowing Absolutely nothing about my heritage? Do you want to keep stereotyping the Asian community or shall we call it quits? | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/12/police-investigate-incident-black-shopper-apparently-grabbed-by-throat This shows the beginning. He stops her from leaving the shop. Over a 'receipt dispute' apparently. She gives back - he grabs her neck to keep her under control. He doesn't let go and they fight. Why? When detain her more? If she shoplifted it would be on cam, but this sounds like it was a different type of dispute. What it is about men and women's necks? (re Andrew Tate and his concept of male choking rights..) Regarding the protests...... As I understand it, the shopkeeper wasn't detained, but she (a black woman) was, and was was bailed. I think some people can see a pattern there. Solidarity to the people of Peckham I say. pt I am with you on this one. I don't at this stage see a clear indication of shoplifting occurring. If that can't be established then the whole thing is an assault and her actions are defensive. I don't believe the force applied was reasonable. I have now seen the video, the images only captured the worst parts. I still don't think it reasonable or necessary force to detain. From what I have read he has been held under caution, so far and the police are examining other footage and evidence to get a wider context. I can quite understand the protests and if that encourages the police to be thorough then that's a good thing. Unless there's an update: The Met Police told MailOnline a woman was arrested on suspicion of assault and later bailed pending further enquiries. The force said the shop worker has not been arrested. Sorry I was looking for the article 2hours ago Telegraph: 'Man who ‘choked’ alleged female thief in Peckham interviewed under caution'" Correct 'held under caution' is wrong. He was interviewed under caution, that's different to being arrested or 'held'. | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/12/police-investigate-incident-black-shopper-apparently-grabbed-by-throat This shows the beginning. He stops her from leaving the shop. Over a 'receipt dispute' apparently. She gives back - he grabs her neck to keep her under control. He doesn't let go and they fight. Why? When detain her more? If she shoplifted it would be on cam, but this sounds like it was a different type of dispute. What it is about men and women's necks? (re Andrew Tate and his concept of male choking rights..) Regarding the protests...... As I understand it, the shopkeeper wasn't detained, but she (a black woman) was, and was was bailed. I think some people can see a pattern there. Solidarity to the people of Peckham I say. pt I am with you on this one. I don't at this stage see a clear indication of shoplifting occurring. If that can't be established then the whole thing is an assault and her actions are defensive. I don't believe the force applied was reasonable. I have now seen the video, the images only captured the worst parts. I still don't think it reasonable or necessary force to detain. From what I have read he has been held under caution, so far and the police are examining other footage and evidence to get a wider context. I can quite understand the protests and if that encourages the police to be thorough then that's a good thing. Unless there's an update: The Met Police told MailOnline a woman was arrested on suspicion of assault and later bailed pending further enquiries. The force said the shop worker has not been arrested. Sorry I was looking for the article 2hours ago Telegraph: 'Man who ‘choked’ alleged female thief in Peckham interviewed under caution' Correct 'held under caution' is wrong. He was interviewed under caution, that's different to being arrested or 'held'." I cut and paste that from the telegraph directly. So you are talking to the wrong person on that one. | |||
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"I’m not wading in on the race element because as a middle aged white fella, it’s not my place to deem what is or is not felt as racism by anyone else. I can’t walk in anyone else’s shoes. " . I'm not sure what your age has to do with it. I'm one of those too, but try and show solidarity whenever I see fit and I can. I saw enough racism as a kid to have thought a lot about what it means to people across my whole life now.. I've always judged situations whenever I've see them. I find it insane that in all this time things are still as bad as they are. (TV in the seventies was bad in enough, but in 1990 I witnessed direct police racism in London first-hand. If you told me then that in over 30 years this would still be going on I'd have probably said "what, even in space? It's utterly, utterly depressing.) pt | |||
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"https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/12/police-investigate-incident-black-shopper-apparently-grabbed-by-throat This shows the beginning. He stops her from leaving the shop. Over a 'receipt dispute' apparently. She gives back - he grabs her neck to keep her under control. He doesn't let go and they fight. Why? When detain her more? If she shoplifted it would be on cam, but this sounds like it was a different type of dispute. What it is about men and women's necks? (re Andrew Tate and his concept of male choking rights..) Regarding the protests...... As I understand it, the shopkeeper wasn't detained, but she (a black woman) was, and was was bailed. I think some people can see a pattern there. Solidarity to the people of Peckham I say. pt I am with you on this one. I don't at this stage see a clear indication of shoplifting occurring. If that can't be established then the whole thing is an assault and her actions are defensive. I don't believe the force applied was reasonable. I have now seen the video, the images only captured the worst parts. I still don't think it reasonable or necessary force to detain. From what I have read he has been held under caution, so far and the police are examining other footage and evidence to get a wider context. I can quite understand the protests and if that encourages the police to be thorough then that's a good thing. Unless there's an update: The Met Police told MailOnline a woman was arrested on suspicion of assault and later bailed pending further enquiries. The force said the shop worker has not been arrested. Sorry I was looking for the article 2hours ago Telegraph: 'Man who ‘choked’ alleged female thief in Peckham interviewed under caution' Correct 'held under caution' is wrong. He was interviewed under caution, that's different to being arrested or 'held'. I cut and paste that from the telegraph directly. So you are talking to the wrong person on that one." Oh I see your point yes I agree he hasn't been arrested yet. | |||
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"I’m not wading in on the race element because as a middle aged white fella, it’s not my place to deem what is or is not felt as racism by anyone else. I can’t walk in anyone else’s shoes. . I'm not sure what your age has to do with it. I'm one of those too, but try and show solidarity whenever I see fit and I can. I saw enough racism as a kid to have thought a lot about what it means to people across my whole life now.. I've always judged situations whenever I've see them. I find it insane that in all this time things are still as bad as they are. (TV in the seventies was bad in enough, but in 1990 I witnessed direct police racism in London first-hand. If you told me then that in over 30 years this would still be going on I'd have probably said "what, even in space? It's utterly, utterly depressing.) pt" I think things are better than they were, but there’s a long way to go. I grew up in the 80’s with an openly racist father. Could easily have fallen in line with him I suppose. But at school I was befriended by a couple of black lads, lo and behold I learned quickly that like me, they enjoyed football, video games, takeaway food, even girls!! They were just like me! Meanwhile dad would spout his racist nonsense and still cheer when a black player scored for spurs. Made no sense then, even less now. We’ll get there one day, just sadly not in our lifetime. | |||
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"I’m not wading in on the race element because as a middle aged white fella, it’s not my place to deem what is or is not felt as racism by anyone else. I can’t walk in anyone else’s shoes. You do know that being a middle aged white fella you can still feel racism No. I honestly can’t. Not in the same way. I’m very fortunate, a member of the most privileged group in history. I wouldn’t dare dream of putting the discrimination I’ve felt up against others. Not the same ballpark. Not the same league. Not even the same sport." Why comment at all, just to make sure everyone knows you don't deserve an opinion? Purely so people know your super anti racist? | |||
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"I’m not wading in on the race element because as a middle aged white fella, it’s not my place to deem what is or is not felt as racism by anyone else. I can’t walk in anyone else’s shoes. You do know that being a middle aged white fella you can still feel racism No. I honestly can’t. Not in the same way. I’m very fortunate, a member of the most privileged group in history. I wouldn’t dare dream of putting the discrimination I’ve felt up against others. Not the same ballpark. Not the same league. Not even the same sport. Why comment at all, just to make sure everyone knows you don't deserve an opinion? Purely so people know your super anti racist?" I like people to know I’m ‘super anti racist’ - that’s something to be proud of, isn’t it? | |||
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"No its self serving and pathetic. Its like giving money to a charity just as long as everyone knows about it. " Weird flex, but ok. You do you. I think the more people we have speaking out on racism the better, but I’m weird like that. | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion. Living in a community surrounded by shops like the one in Peckham and how they treat black women its done on a regular basis those men don't respect black people You can't learn that until you have lived in it and seen it for yourself It's not a matter of emotion its living facts. The act the store owner did was not his instincts it was his bottled up festering hatred anger towards people in my community Absolutely ridiculous. You do not know that shopkeeper. Who is being racist by stereotyping him? It sure isn't me. As I said believe what you want and to dismiss is just easiest thing to do Or we can just go around being racist to other communities because no one has it as bad as us. The funny thing here is you've made a few assumptions about me knowing Absolutely nothing about my heritage? Do you want to keep stereotyping the Asian community or shall we call it quits?" I don't condone racism of any kind and I won't waste time with ignorance You're better off calling it quits your lack of knowledge and understanding says it all 
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion. Living in a community surrounded by shops like the one in Peckham and how they treat black women its done on a regular basis those men don't respect black people You can't learn that until you have lived in it and seen it for yourself It's not a matter of emotion its living facts. The act the store owner did was not his instincts it was his bottled up festering hatred anger towards people in my community Absolutely ridiculous. You do not know that shopkeeper. Who is being racist by stereotyping him? It sure isn't me. As I said believe what you want and to dismiss is just easiest thing to do Or we can just go around being racist to other communities because no one has it as bad as us. The funny thing here is you've made a few assumptions about me knowing Absolutely nothing about my heritage? Do you want to keep stereotyping the Asian community or shall we call it quits? I don't condone racism of any kind and I won't waste time with ignorance You're better off calling it quits your lack of knowledge and understanding says it all
"What lack of knowledge? You don't know me or that shopkeeper yet he's racist and I'm ignorant. Yeah right. You're doing well here | |||
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"No its self serving and pathetic. Its like giving money to a charity just as long as everyone knows about it. Weird flex, but ok. You do you. I think the more people we have speaking out on racism the better, but I’m weird like that. " You didn't speak out. You sat on the fence and allowed a poster here to be racist towards the Asian community. Pathetic. | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion. Living in a community surrounded by shops like the one in Peckham and how they treat black women its done on a regular basis those men don't respect black people You can't learn that until you have lived in it and seen it for yourself It's not a matter of emotion its living facts. The act the store owner did was not his instincts it was his bottled up festering hatred anger towards people in my community Absolutely ridiculous. You do not know that shopkeeper. Who is being racist by stereotyping him? It sure isn't me. As I said believe what you want and to dismiss is just easiest thing to do Or we can just go around being racist to other communities because no one has it as bad as us. The funny thing here is you've made a few assumptions about me knowing Absolutely nothing about my heritage? Do you want to keep stereotyping the Asian community or shall we call it quits? I don't condone racism of any kind and I won't waste time with ignorance You're better off calling it quits your lack of knowledge and understanding says it all
What lack of knowledge?
You don't know me or that shopkeeper yet he's racist and I'm ignorant.
Yeah right. You're doing well here "I don't need to know more than what you have displayed. Seeking validation from others that's not what I do so your opinion is empty here | |||
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"I’m not wading in on the race element because as a middle aged white fella, it’s not my place to deem what is or is not felt as racism by anyone else. I can’t walk in anyone else’s shoes. . I'm not sure what your age has to do with it. I'm one of those too, but try and show solidarity whenever I see fit and I can. I saw enough racism as a kid to have thought a lot about what it means to people across my whole life now.. I've always judged situations whenever I've see them. I find it insane that in all this time things are still as bad as they are. (TV in the seventies was bad in enough, but in 1990 I witnessed direct police racism in London first-hand. If you told me then that in over 30 years this would still be going on I'd have probably said "what, even in space? It's utterly, utterly depressing.) pt I think things are better than they were, but there’s a long way to go. I grew up in the 80’s with an openly racist father. Could easily have fallen in line with him I suppose. But at school I was befriended by a couple of black lads, lo and behold I learned quickly that like me, they enjoyed football, video games, takeaway food, even girls!! They were just like me! Meanwhile dad would spout his racist nonsense and still cheer when a black player scored for spurs. Made no sense then, even less now. We’ll get there one day, just sadly not in our lifetime. " . I get very gloomy about it all. I think if we haven't turned things around properly within the next 30 odd years (do we even have that long?) that's it for us all tbh. We need to go forwards at this juncture not backwards. We don't have any natural right to be here forever imo, and humanity can too-easily implode with dominoes of all kinds tumbling everywhere in ultimately un-manageable chaos. It's living with each other without fighting that's the heart of it, we don't seem to even want to do it. pt | |||
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"No its self serving and pathetic. Its like giving money to a charity just as long as everyone knows about it. Weird flex, but ok. You do you. I think the more people we have speaking out on racism the better, but I’m weird like that. You didn't speak out. You sat on the fence and allowed a poster here to be racist towards the Asian community. Pathetic. " I actually said I’m not getting involved in the race element of this incident because it’s not my place to do so. I don’t know what was said or not said by either party, nor do I know their motivations for their actions. | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion. Living in a community surrounded by shops like the one in Peckham and how they treat black women its done on a regular basis those men don't respect black people You can't learn that until you have lived in it and seen it for yourself It's not a matter of emotion its living facts. The act the store owner did was not his instincts it was his bottled up festering hatred anger towards people in my community Absolutely ridiculous. You do not know that shopkeeper. Who is being racist by stereotyping him? It sure isn't me. As I said believe what you want and to dismiss is just easiest thing to do Or we can just go around being racist to other communities because no one has it as bad as us. The funny thing here is you've made a few assumptions about me knowing Absolutely nothing about my heritage? Do you want to keep stereotyping the Asian community or shall we call it quits? I don't condone racism of any kind and I won't waste time with ignorance You're better off calling it quits your lack of knowledge and understanding says it all
What lack of knowledge?
You don't know me or that shopkeeper yet he's racist and I'm ignorant.
Yeah right. You're doing well here
I don't need to know more than what you have displayed.
Seeking validation from others that's not what I do so your opinion is empty here "Cool. If its empty you can stop replying, I won't cry over it. | |||
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"No its self serving and pathetic. Its like giving money to a charity just as long as everyone knows about it. Weird flex, but ok. You do you. I think the more people we have speaking out on racism the better, but I’m weird like that. " I agree but not everyone calls racism when its happening. A lot think its just about racist slurs when its beyond that | |||
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"No its self serving and pathetic. Its like giving money to a charity just as long as everyone knows about it. Weird flex, but ok. You do you. I think the more people we have speaking out on racism the better, but I’m weird like that. You didn't speak out. You sat on the fence and allowed a poster here to be racist towards the Asian community. Pathetic. I actually said I’m not getting involved in the race element of this incident because it’s not my place to do so. I don’t know what was said or not said by either party, nor do I know their motivations for their actions. " But you do know what was written in this very thread. Unless, off course, you choose to be blind to it. | |||
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"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion. Living in a community surrounded by shops like the one in Peckham and how they treat black women its done on a regular basis those men don't respect black people You can't learn that until you have lived in it and seen it for yourself It's not a matter of emotion its living facts. The act the store owner did was not his instincts it was his bottled up festering hatred anger towards people in my community Absolutely ridiculous. You do not know that shopkeeper. Who is being racist by stereotyping him? It sure isn't me. As I said believe what you want and to dismiss is just easiest thing to do Or we can just go around being racist to other communities because no one has it as bad as us. The funny thing here is you've made a few assumptions about me knowing Absolutely nothing about my heritage? Do you want to keep stereotyping the Asian community or shall we call it quits? I don't condone racism of any kind and I won't waste time with ignorance You're better off calling it quits your lack of knowledge and understanding says it all
What lack of knowledge?
You don't know me or that shopkeeper yet he's racist and I'm ignorant.
Yeah right. You're doing well here
I don't need to know more than what you have displayed.
Seeking validation from others that's not what I do so your opinion is empty here
Cool. If its empty you can stop replying, I won't cry over it. "I don't suspect anyone on this thread will be crying at anything So off you trot | |||
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| |||
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"I haven't seen the video but am relying on the forum for the truth about it." I haven't seen it either, saw part 2 in the forum and really glad I didn't read the first part. The state of this thread | |||
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"I haven't seen the video but am relying on the forum for the truth about it. I haven't seen it either, saw part 2 in the forum and really glad I didn't read the first part. The state of this thread "Oh, I had read part 1 and was just thrilled there was a part 2! Still, feels like we're getting to some good middle ground here...  | |||
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"I haven't seen the video but am relying on the forum for the truth about it." | |||
(thread closed by moderator) | |||
| Reply privately |
"To continue where the other thread finished: "He gripped her neck, not throat until after she hit him. She also hit him with the basket before he 'swings' her. You say you've watched the video, if that's true then you're seeing something which isn't there. His hands are on his neck by way if restraining, no danger to the woman by holding her neck. "Neck/throat same difference and he should have never handled her like that End of" "Absolutely not the same thing. Never will be. " "I said same difference just like forearm and upper arm is all still part of your arm" There is no such thing as same difference, and in any case, in cases like this, it is important to know the facts, throat and back of neck are inherently different and saying they aren't is wholly wrong, especially when emotions are running high. If you say you have seen the cctv recording then you would see he hand both his hand around her neck and throat. Seems like your emotions are running high to defend a nasty woman beater of a shop keeper not to defend the victim who was hit in the face when he pushed her and ch0ked Why start this thread again when most people defend the store owner I am not defending him. I'm saying he realises he shouldn't have used so much force, there's a difference. His actions were a reaction. Not an excuse but people can sympathise. I'll repeat, his hands are not around her neck until after she attacks him (for the second time). You can say it until your keyboard freezes The cctv clearly shows he instigated and had his hands on her before she struck at him I don't know why you can't see that from 1 footage You're too emotional to look at this from a different direction. I can see that he first had his hands on her (restraint), I haven't argued otherwise. You can clearly see he rubs his brows because he doesn't want this. That's before he grabs her. If you had to constantly see your community face racism and other races dismiss it YOU would be emotional too I find it interesting that other communities are quick to dismiss racism happening but I never see a black person yet tell anyone that they may not be dealing with a racist This has absolutely nothing to do with any racism from what I've seen. It's easy for you to say Stick to whatever you want to believe I'm not stupid and I have seen it happen too many times Until you can show me otherwise, this was a shopkeeper against a person trying to steal. Racism doesn't come into it. Like I said believe what you want to believe just a typical thing to say I'll believe what I can see as fact, and not just an opinion. Does that work for you? You can't relate to things the black community have gone through I wouldn't expect you to want to learn either only a few outside the black community do want to learn Most people don't want to learn and empathise because to dismiss and be ignorant is easier Don't ask me what works for me its a sarcastic question. I would never dismiss what a person expresses. Do what suits you but you would never be able to relate Toodles I'm more than willing to learn. Show me where this shopkeeper has acted in a racist manner and I'll stand with you. Until then, it's nothing but emotion. Living in a community surrounded by shops like the one in Peckham and how they treat black women its done on a regular basis those men don't respect black people You can't learn that until you have lived in it and seen it for yourself It's not a matter of emotion its living facts. The act the store owner did was not his instincts it was his bottled up festering hatred anger towards people in my community Absolutely ridiculous. You do not know that shopkeeper. Who is being racist by stereotyping him? It sure isn't me. As I said believe what you want and to dismiss is just easiest thing to do Or we can just go around being racist to other communities because no one has it as bad as us. The funny thing here is you've made a few assumptions about me knowing Absolutely nothing about my heritage? Do you want to keep stereotyping the Asian community or shall we call it quits? I don't condone racism of any kind and I won't waste time with ignorance You're better off calling it quits your lack of knowledge and understanding says it all
What lack of knowledge?
You don't know me or that shopkeeper yet he's racist and I'm ignorant.
Yeah right. You're doing well here
I don't need to know more than what you have displayed.
Seeking validation from others that's not what I do so your opinion is empty here
Cool. If its empty you can stop replying, I won't cry over it.
I don't suspect anyone on this thread will be crying at anything
So off you trot "Really? | |||
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