FabSwingers.com forum: Do I have double standards ?

By *mber81 OP Woman
over a year ago

Lives in Preston, Eng

When at a swingers event I get a little twitchy when male presenting people touch me; a kiss any where beyond the cheek (I am talking about the face you dirty fabbers), a slap on the arse etc, without asking me first. Even if we have interacted before and even if I would have been fine with it if they had asked.

However my lines are fuzzier with female presenting people who do the same thing.

I am interested to hear some forumite members thoughts.

How do you feel about it?

What are your expectations for being asked?

Does it matter the type of event?

Do you differentiate between men and women?

Is that fair?

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

Yeah I totally differentiate between men and women. Is it fair? I don’t know and not really bothered to be honest. I can’t do random and one offs with men, I totally can with women. So different for me. Totally

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

I enjoy little slaps not so much kisses! X

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By *imi_RougeWoman
over a year ago

Portsmouth

I think women are less likely to be like that, and obviously it's less "threatening" than a man doing the same thing, so I totally get it.

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By *hePerkyPumpkinTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

What do you mean by female/male presenting?

Could I just come along and slap your bum without asking first?

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple
over a year ago

Leeds

I don't like it, unexpected groping freaks me out, moreso from men than women.

At the last Leeds social some bloke thought it ok to grab my vagina as I walked past under my dress how I didn't slap him is beyond me! It pissed me right off.

I find from the double standards point of view women are less likely to aggressively grope it's generally a light touch, peck on the cheek (in my experience) men on the other hand as my example above can take things too far again from my experience.

Mrs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm the exact same I think.

If a masc man tries touching me I dodge that like he's carrying a prehistoric virus.

However with women and femboys they can do whatever they want to me.

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By *unxicanMan
over a year ago

Norwich

"When at a swingers event I get a little twitchy when male presenting people touch me; a kiss any where beyond the cheek (I am talking about the face you dirty fabbers), a slap on the arse etc, without asking me first. Even if we have interacted before and even if I would have been fine with it if they had asked.

However my lines are fuzzier with female presenting people who do the same thing.

I would say you're 80% into women and 20% into men. Maybe just had a lot of moron men in your life?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Similar to you, I differentiate between men and women.

When in a club, I dislike any man (other than the one I’ve attended with) randomly touching me in any way unless I’ve invited him to. If a woman touches me, even in passing I don’t feel the same.

For me, I reckon the differentiating factor comes from the difference between what comes across as aggressive versus the softness of a similar touch from a woman. I’m not bothered that I feel this way, and it’s not something I consider negative in and of its own.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

However my lines are fuzzier with female presenting people who do the same thing.

I am interested to hear some forumite members thoughts.

How do you feel about it?

What are your expectations for being asked?

Does it matter the type of event?

Do you differentiate between men and women?

Is that fair?

Your lines are your lines. Nobody else's.

And there's never a need to explain yourself. It's not 'double standards'. Just 'your standards'.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

"I don't like it, unexpected groping freaks me out, moreso from men than women.

At the last Leeds social some bloke thought it ok to grab my vagina as I walked past under my dress how I didn't slap him is beyond me! It pissed me right off.

Mrs "

For most I think it's this, the perception/expectation of the stereotype that men will simply be much more inappropriate than women, because when it comes to the extremes, it's true.

As I have said before (as have others) - women are just as pervy and inappropriate as men, often more so BUT they are less likely to let those things take over and dictate their actions when it comes to anything sexual. They hide it better, they act much more controlled. So it feels much more affectionate and with good vibes behind it than "man want sex"

But not all women! Some can be absolutely vile and extremely inappropriate too.

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

I went to a club where the rule was “men don’t touch without invite (or bounced out), women can do what the hell they want”

I mean I guess it works , but I have encountered aggressive women in this lifestyle and I’m not sure I’d be happy for them to just grope away.

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By *ehindHerEyesCouple
over a year ago

SomewhereOnlyWeKnow

I always play it by ear, if theu go for a hug I'll hug, handshake I'll handshake, kiss on the cheek I'll reciprocate. None of those are gender specific.

Anymore than that then it's an overstep unless I know them and it's something I expect from them.

Tinder

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By *entlemanFoxMan
over a year ago

North East / London

However my lines are fuzzier with female presenting people who do the same thing.

I am interested to hear some forumite members thoughts.

How do you feel about it?

As a male, I would dream of doing anything more than a peck on the cheek without being encouraged.

What are your expectations for being asked?

I don't expect anyone to ask. They have standards after all. But it is lovely when they do.

As an aside there is a difference between a caress and a grope. I don't think anyone likes an uninvited grope.

Does it matter the type of event?

No.

Do you differentiate between men and women?

Me no, I don't think it matters if women do. It is their choice.

Is that fair?

Perfectly

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By *electableicecreamMan
over a year ago

The West

I have quite distinctive hair. It gets a lot of attention.

Woman, especially at an event and if there is alcohol involved, will often casually reach out and start touching it.

This is a part of my body and if your touching me without my consent it isn't ok. I've never had a man do it but I would feel the same.

I haven't experienced been touched anywhere else so can't comment but I will say that when I expressed my discomfort and pointed out that I am not touching them without asking, more then one woman has said 'sure it's only your hair, it's not the same.'

I'm not generalising. This is just my experience.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

However my lines are fuzzier with female presenting people who do the same thing.

I would say you're 80% into women and 20% into men. Maybe just had a lot of moron men in your life?"

I doubt it's that. I think it's the relative aggression that's more likely to be it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t like being touched by men so much. And it has happened. But tbh I’m also not a fan of being non consensually touched by women either. But women I think knowing they can get away with it maybe seem to touch both men and women without a care in the world for consent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have quite distinctive hair. It gets a lot of attention.

Woman, especially at an event and if there is alcohol involved, will often casually reach out and start touching it.

This is a part of my body and if your touching me without my consent it isn't ok. I've never had a man do it but I would feel the same.

I'm not generalising. This is just my experience. "

Women don’t touch my hair since the more recent BLM protests.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I don't like anyone I don't know touching me outside of a medical setting or shaking hands.

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By *ML49Man
over a year ago

Burnley

The rules are exactly the same as they are in public. If they grope without consent then challenge bad behaviour. Ask the club to step in and deal with it appropriately. Respect all around you or be removed or banned.

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

A previous job used to take me into 50-60 licensed premises every week, often in the evenings as well.

There were always stag and hen parties or weddings going on at the time.

In more than 2 decades I had 2 men become aggressive with me but I lost count of the number of women who thought it appropriate to grab my arse or on a couple of occasions reach up between my legs and grab me by the balls when I was bent over.

I was surrounded and mauled by one group of about 20 women on a hen do.

Before anyone jumps to conclusions I wasn't there as a stripper. I was there doing a pretty menial service job on equipment in each premises but regardless I didn't give any of them permission.

The only difference was that if a man had done likewise on me I would quite happily punch him in the face.

I dread to think what would happen if the roles were reversed and female service engineers were touched inappropriately so how can anyone laugh it off as a bit of fun?

Lots of people seem to have double standards.

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By *avinaTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Transsexual Transylvania

"What do you mean by female/male presenting?

Could I just come along and slap your bum without asking first?

You could slap my bum. Just saying.

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By * and R cple4Couple
over a year ago

swansea

I understand where your coming from .. In my experience before women have touched me we’ve always had some kind of interaction it could be something like a compliment on my lingerie .

when I’ve been touched by men tho it’s just a random man who hasn’t even said hi to me it feels a lot more threatening.

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By *hePerkyPumpkinTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

"What do you mean by female/male presenting?

Could I just come along and slap your bum without asking first?

You could slap my bum. Just saying.

Don't need to tell me twice

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By *isfits behaving badlyCouple
over a year ago

Coventry

You don't have double standards you have differing protocols on consent regards how people present. This is all perfectly OK.

Obviously those who present male who are too forward in this way are totally not OK. Not just because you personally don't like it. Because when is it ever OK to naturally assume any stranger will be OK with it? As for those who present female doing the same. I would argue likewise its not OK for them to presume you're OK with that. You are OK with it but they don't know that at this stage. So what gives them the entitlement to assume your OK with that?

So nothing wrong with what is OK and not OK for you. However regardless of who it is surely its never OK to assume entitlement to such personal contract with a stranger?

I think it's something women do a lot. Maybe partiality they feel their entitlement more valid as its generally well received by other females. However this can't be guaranteed and such assumptions may lead to something that is really not OK one day. I think this tends to be a big gripe of many Straight women on the scene who are often assumed and aggressively treated as Bi by other women till proven otherwise.

Now all of the above is over simplified. It ignores the nuances of vibe, body language and eye contact. Not all consent is verbal. I suspect with regards other women they are often picking up on non verbal and maybe a more subconscious level of consent. So although without asking they maybe picking up from OP that its OK. But that still comes with risk, so when in doubt seek clarity. To this end there may be instances where guys have misread non verbal cues genuinely by mistake. However experience tells us there's a lot of guys who just ignore these cues. Who actually do understand she's not feeling it but go in for it anyway and then claim ignorance afterwards.

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By *rgoodnbadMan
over a year ago

greenock

How do males and females present themselves? What does that mean?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How do males and females present themselves? What does that mean?

'Male' persons in 'female' clothes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like anyone I don't know touching me outside of a medical setting or shaking hands. "

Same except I don't like it from people I do know either. Man, woman, etc etc.

I now tell people I'm not a hugger and refuse the contact. They think I'm odd but I'm too old to care anymore.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

I think I see most women as less threatening than most men.

Possibly because experience tells me that men are more likely to become so aggressive I won't be able to fend them off.

I've had a man squeeze my boob who I'd chatted to briefly.

If the equivalent of a woman had done it in the same way I'd have been as equally appalled.

I don't like unwanted attention from anyone.

In your case I'd go with double standards, but possibly because of the reason I mentioned above.

What if the women were a little bit manly or really ugly?

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"I don't like anyone I don't know touching me outside of a medical setting or shaking hands.

Same except I don't like it from people I do know either. Man, woman, etc etc.

I now tell people I'm not a hugger and refuse the contact. They think I'm odd but I'm too old to care anymore. "

If I see you at a social I'll give you a double thumbs up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You have standards?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How do males and females present themselves? What does that mean?

'Male' persons in 'female' clothes.

you called?

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By *rgoodnbadMan
over a year ago

greenock

Could have just said tv's and/or cd's.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Reminds me of a time at a kink event when a woman I knew slapped my ass as i went by. I turned around and said if that had been the other way around there would have been uproar.

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By *aucasian GhandiMan
over a year ago

from my dad's left nut (Warwick)

Slap my arse,

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By *issYeuxBleusWoman
over a year ago

My boudoir - S Wales

"Slap my arse, "

Noted.

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By *eliciousDiva69Woman
over a year ago

Schitts Creek

"I don't like it, unexpected groping freaks me out, moreso from men than women.

At the last Leeds social some bloke thought it ok to grab my vagina as I walked past under my dress how I didn't slap him is beyond me! It pissed me right off.

Mrs

For most I think it's this, the perception/expectation of the stereotype that men will simply be much more inappropriate than women, because when it comes to the extremes, it's true.

But not all women! Some can be absolutely vile and extremely inappropriate too. "

Pretty accurate I’d say Kai!

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By *ansoffateMan
over a year ago

Sagittarius A

I find this a fascinating subject, which I could probably talk about for days.

Are you questioning why you differentiate and the source or origin of it?

I think some of it is cultural and therefore gender-norms may be factor. However, culture varies? At 15 I recall being in France, introduced to a French family and the whole double-cheek kiss thing was sprung on me. It is apparently neutral, except well it wasn't. I noticed this with French girls, there are very subtle differences. Fractionally more lip contact, fractionally more delay. One girl it felt especially different with. I think the only person who noticed was her father who watched us like a hawk for the next 3 weeks.

For me it is the congruence between expressivity and receptivity. E.g. I have a female colleague who rubs her boobs on me and says things like I'd fuck you senseless, or massages me. We both know it is just for giggles. There is congruence - no problem. Would I be ok with a man doing that if that congruence was there, sure. In a way we are playing with the social taboo. Well she bulldozes the wall to be fair.

I've had a female colleague stroke my arm and it's felt very uncomfortable. Is that a dual standard? No because my receptivity wasn't there and she didn't pick up on it. I had to explicitly tell her it made me uncomfortable to get her to stop doing it.

I've also been in a position where there is no actual contact but what is expressed through body proximity alone was enough to push my arousal passed any notion of discomfort. I became putty in her hands and she toyed with the gap, to the point I couldn't contain my growl. I didn't know myself if I wanted it or not. She slid through what 'should' be appropriate.

What I am conscious of is that with the right person and the right stimulus. I can be aroused to a primal point where I lose awareness of my surroundings. I've had an exhibitionist partner who took great delight in that. It's looking like I have met another one.

Being asked? It's too nuanced. Generally no to hug me or kiss my cheek in a non-sexual way.

Fair, I think is an internal question. That is more whether there is congruence between the beliefs and values I have and my innate responses. When my beliefs are revised I start seeing my behaviours in a different light.

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By *inkForLifeCouple
over a year ago

North Shields

Double standards, but that's perfectly acceptable and OK.

For example if you were having a gangbang, you may tell the person who was managing it that you're happy for any woman to join in, but you want to OK any new guys first.

Who you choose to allow to interact with you is totally your choice and it's irrelevant if its double standards.

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

It's hardly double standards OP, men and women are different, end of.

Why shouldn't you react differently to people of different types?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think consent should be gained before touching, unless it's a proffered hand, that another can opt to touch, if they want to.

Just 1 touch may be enough to prevent someone from returning to a club, or even swinging, any further

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

Sometimes the double standard exists for a reason. Is that always 'fair'? Not always, no. Does the truth/reality of the world around us care about 'fairness'? Nope.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well you do what works for you, of course.

Your body, your rules.

I find it interesting that I would more likely get a ‘pass’ to grope you at a party if I was wearing a dress, wig and some lippy though.

I thought consent meant consent?

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By *r and Mrs Double spiceCouple
over a year ago

somewhere around midlands

I don't see any double standards here. I'm more open to women when it comes to touch,so i get what you mean. I always ask for consent and i expect the same. Otherwise we are talking about sexual assault by touching. Your body your rules.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think there’s an element of the perceived threat of violence. We generally see this form of assault with men as a prelude to a form of sexual violence in a different way to we do with women. Is that right? Idk. But I think it can be a factor. Women are seen as harmless when they do these things, especially to other women. And especially when there’s the assumption that it isn’t sexual and is perhaps playful.

I think a woman’s experience of these things and her perspective will differ greatly to mine because of the realities of being a woman, the increased likelihood of SA and other forms of sexual violence etc.

And I don’t think that’s unfair to consider. Ultimately though I think it’s about consent and I think people should have a better understanding than they seem to.

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By *wist my nipplesCouple
over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly

Tight squeeze, I hear you. I feel the same. Hmmmm. What's that about?

Mrs TMN x

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

There used to be a 'thing' at swinging parties/clubs. If someone was interested they would lightly touch your arm with the back of their fingers. Totally non threatening and it was up to you if you responded.

Sadly it seems to have fallen by the wayside.

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By *JB1954Man
over a year ago

Reading

On my local news for the past few months. There has been a series of interviews about unwanted harassment to females when out. What was being done to stop etc. some of filming has been in local town centre.

The female complaint was harassment could be verbal . But mainly it was unwanted touching , groping etc.

Basically most females said if they spoke with a male , perhaps excepted drink . Then male thought had right to do anything . Some males also yes would do by getting close to female and say accident.

The police plus community patrols were taking steps by moving on males or if seen doing . Tell males to leave area or risk being arrested.

I do admit not sure why males do this, yes drink may be possible reason . But that not an valid reason ?

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By *thfloorCouple
over a year ago

Hove

"A previous job used to take me into 50-60 licensed premises every week, often in the evenings as well.

There were always stag and hen parties or weddings going on at the time.

I was surrounded and mauled by one group of about 20 women on a hen do.

Before anyone jumps to conclusions I wasn't there as a stripper. I was there doing a pretty menial service job on equipment in each premises but regardless I didn't give any of them permission.

The only difference was that if a man had done likewise on me I would quite happily punch him in the face.

I dread to think what would happen if the roles were reversed and female service engineers were touched inappropriately so how can anyone laugh it off as a bit of fun?

Lots of people seem to have double standards."

So unacceptable. It reminds me of how many think women flashing unsuspecting people is a "treat".

Having said that I've personally have never been grope, slapped or pinched by a woman, not even those I'd been on a date with. I've never had a woman help themselves to a feel the way men have done, or tell me things like "your ass needs slapping". So in this respect I have no double standards, there simply is no comparison.

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By *mber81 OP Woman
over a year ago

Lives in Preston, Eng

Thank you everyone for thier comments. I am going through them now.

I want to be clear. I am not talking about anyone in particular. Just thinking out loud about past situations and theoretical future ones.

I have had some conversations about club visits, swingers socials and normal nights out and where my lines are and was interested to hear other people's opinions!

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