FabSwingers.com forum: Misogynist extremism

By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Concerning, no?

"Counter-terrorism experts have warned of a huge increase in the number of referrals about Tate followers, but misogynist extremism doesn’t reach the threshold for anti-extremist action unless it’s connected to the “incel” [involuntarily celibate] movement. Can this possibly be right, I ask, that we don’t fear misogynist, extremist violence, unless those misogynists aren’t getting laid? “Yes,” Shea says. “That is what I’m saying.”

And

"that Tate’s organisation has been training men to groom women, peddling an ideology that centres on ensl@ving them. “This isn’t just, ‘Oh, women should stay in the kitchen and the gender pay gap is a lie.’ This is advocating the subjugation of an entire gender into sl@very. If you imagined an extremist group with a similar ideology aimed towards an ethnic group, you would think this was one of the most dangerous extremist groups in the world.”

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/aug/28/to-his-followers-this-man-is-a-messiah-matt-shea-on-his-long-fight-to-expose-andrew-tate

Braced for the incoming....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Any form of extremism is worrying tbf. Not just the stuff you read in the Guardian.

But yeah, Tate is a twat.

Like any sort of extremism a very small minority of followers does not an entire population make.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 28/08/23 15:14:03]"

Fat figers on the way out

Dudes a complete bell end to say the lest

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Any form of extremism is worrying tbf. Not just the stuff you read in the Guardian.

But yeah, Tate is a twat.

Like any sort of extremism a very small minority of followers does not an entire population make.

The Guardian didn't write what our counter extremist people said. They quoted it. The fact our counter extremist people are worried about the cult of Tate, worries me.

We see it in education, it's pretty scary how pervasive his reach is.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Concerning? Bloody terrifying

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Concerning? Bloody terrifying "

I'm a woman. Can't be seen to be hysterical in writing my post, can I?!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Concerning? Bloody terrifying

I'm a woman. Can't be seen to be hysterical in writing my post, can I?!

Sorry. It's ok for me though because although I am a woman I'm too old to be of much use. I do make a pretty good sandwich and can iron shirts though

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Concerning? Bloody terrifying

I'm a woman. Can't be seen to be hysterical in writing my post, can I?!

Sorry. It's ok for me though because although I am a woman I'm too old to be of much use. I do make a pretty good sandwich and can iron shirts though

Permission granted

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

The incel movement doesn't just impact women. Young, socially-awkward young men are being groomed into believing this vile shit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Any form of extremism is worrying tbf. Not just the stuff you read in the Guardian.

But yeah, Tate is a twat.

Like any sort of extremism a very small minority of followers does not an entire population make.

The Guardian didn't write what our counter extremist people said. They quoted it. The fact our counter extremist people are worried about the cult of Tate, worries me.

We see it in education, it's pretty scary how pervasive his reach is. "

My point stands.

There are extreme misogynists, extreme misandrists, extreme islamists, extreme right wingers, extreme nationalists, extreme activists of many political causes.. by definition they’re extreme and will go to extreme lengths for their beliefs and to further their causes.

But by and large all of these groups are small minorities. In the same way I won’t tar all Irish people (across the political divide) with the same brush that I would the Paramilitaries, or all Muslims the same as Jihadis, I won’t get on the bandwagon to demonise all men due to the beliefs of a minority following their own false prophet.

So yes, I agree it’s worrying there are extreme misogynists out there that follow Tate (who, to reiterate, I think is a twat). But let’s have perspective.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Any form of extremism is worrying tbf. Not just the stuff you read in the Guardian.

But yeah, Tate is a twat.

Like any sort of extremism a very small minority of followers does not an entire population make.

The Guardian didn't write what our counter extremist people said. They quoted it. The fact our counter extremist people are worried about the cult of Tate, worries me.

We see it in education, it's pretty scary how pervasive his reach is.

My point stands.

So yes, I agree it’s worrying there are extreme misogynists out there that follow Tate (who, to reiterate, I think is a twat). But let’s have perspective.

Nah, the extreme right wing (including incels) are one of the biggest current terrorism threats in the UK.

https://isc.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/E02710035-HCP-Extreme-Right-Wing-Terrorism_Accessible.pdf

There's a little section on incels and over lap with the right wing. Tate plays well into the incel culture.

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By *ulieAndBeefCouple
over a year ago

Manchester-ish

It was very much the focus of the latest safeguarding training I did.

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

Pity the Grauniad weren't concerned about the extremism of their former editor Peter Wilby(just convicted of possesing indecent images of children)who used his position to suppress stories of paedophillia/abuse,from care homes to individuals. He also published articles in support of Gary Glitter,articles accusing other journalists of a witch hunt for reporting stories of abuse,referred to abuse in care homes as "the great children's homes panic",opposed the idea of abusers identities being available to parents,opposed rules designed to prevent teachers from abusing pupils.All his articles (including those where whistleblowers successfully sued the Grauniad for libel) are still on the Grauniad/New Statesman website.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

The International Centre for Counter Terrorism agrees re: violent misogyny in its article entitled:

"Why Terrorism Studies Miss the Mark When It Comes To Incels"

Quote: "incels should not be analysed as a fringe phenomenon of terrorism or political violence, but instead recognised as connected to a broader online ecosystem of the manosphere. Incels constitute part of an umbrella network that includes the men’s rights movement (MRM), pickup artists (PUA), fathers’ rights movement, and men going their own way (MGTOW) – all united by the narrative that men are victims, a stance of anti-feminism, and denial of gender inequality. While incels are the most recognisable subculture within the manosphere, as evident by the labelling and reporting of terrorist attacks, it is important to note that not all acts of violent misogyny are incel related, but can constitute these other factions within the manosphere."

Tate started out as pushing a form of PUA type agenda and morphed from there.

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

My perspective is that there are some men who believe that they are entitled to sex, and if they cannot get it consentually, they will take it by force. They see other men as a threat to that goal. Some incels coach men on how to aggressively attain their goals.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"It was very much the focus of the latest safeguarding training I did.

Same. Our staff will be doing that training very soon too.

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By *ogo1189Man
over a year ago

Rossendale

I think all extremists should be executed

Or is that too extreme?

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By *ris GrayMan
over a year ago

Dorchester

"Concerning, no?

And

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/aug/28/to-his-followers-this-man-is-a-messiah-matt-shea-on-his-long-fight-to-expose-andrew-tate

Braced for the incoming...."
omg here we go

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"omg here we go

Here we go in what way?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is a massive divide in society.

It seems that every sense of masculinity is deemed toxic, whereas any toxic femininity is ignored/accepted.

There are toxicities on both sides and I honestly don't see how it's going to change with this division and lack of any accountability.

I know little of Tate, mainly what I've read here or snippets in other places.

From what I can gather, he's not a positive to anyone at all.

I do though also feel it's being fed by not only the toxic side of masculinity/misogyny but also the toxic side of femininity/misandry.

The way to change this is to come together, I fear that's nigh on impossible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

What is the point of this thread? Like would ANY rational person say extreme behaviour is a good thing? Of course not! There’s no *defending* of this behaviour before anyone tries to twist it that way!

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

I agree toxic attitudes exist among women. However, it doesn't seem that our schools are awash with it in the way they are with toxic misogyny, nor do we see such issues pervading the internet, in the media and causing concern to the counter terrorism community.

These are not just UK issues, they appear to be global issues.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Regrettably, these groups are comprised of very large volumes of men, including some who are influenced indirectly. It reflects too, the reduced levels of respect many have for others of difference. I've come across far too many men who revere Tate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly the conversations around Andrew Tate are frustrating because they often are dismissed or joked about because ‘he’s a twat’ or something like that. But his threat isn’t to be laughed off. And it’s why so many schools and educators are hyper aware of him and the young people he radicalises.

I’m classic Jess Phillips style she said she’d never heard of him until recently- that’s worrying. We should all be aware of what he represents, the threat he poses and we should all be doing our best to challenge him and more importantly followers of him at the earliest opportunity.

On a broader note- I’m not surprised that misogyny isn’t deemed to be serious enough unless it’s connected to incels. It’s part of a wider idea that symbolic violence or violence that isn’t physical is less harmful. this plays out in discussions around nearly every form of discrimination and neglects the a) harm that this form of discrimination does and b) way that this inevitably leads to violence and is invariably linked to violence.

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By *batMan
over a year ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

Tate and his ilk are quite rightly seen as dangerous and unwelcome in any right thinking society. Which is exactly why we should talk about them.

I don't see it as a means to bash all men, just keeping a close eye on those who would do harm.

Gbat

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By *ake_or_deathMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Extreme misogyny and incel culture taps into a couple of cracks in society and brings them together. There's the lack of respect for women, treating them as existing to satisfy the desires if men. There's the way patriarchy messes with the heads of young males to skew their views of life and prevents them expressing their emotions in a healthy way, leading to isolation and being vulnerable to predators like Tate and the nonsense he spouts.

Thanks to social media people like Tate will always be able to get their message out somehow, so we need the tools to make sure the people vulnerable to him can see him for the charlatan he is. And a big part of that is the understanding that women don't owe men a fucking thing, and definitely not sex.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!"

I don’t think it is or would turn into a man bashing thread and I don’t think any people on fab genuinely think men are ‘inherently’ bad. I think men are generally bad and I think that’s in line with my beliefs around the existence of the patriarchy and a broader misogynistic culture in societies. That is to say men learn to be ‘bad’ and ‘bad’ in particular to women.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!"

The problem is that radicalised extreme misogynists are responsible for a significant number of terrorist attacks on innocent people around the world, and by comparison with any other forms of extremism are very rarely recognised and labelled as such.

This terrorism has been happening for years, and is only now starting to gain some traction within the organisations responsible for policing them.

One of the reasons for this lack of recognition is the desire to ignore it, or minimise the seriousness of the issue that it represents…which is what you are providing an example of here.

It’s arguably the most serious terrorist threat facing society today.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

Would love one day to see a conversation about misogyny that doesn't have a bloke popping up with "now hang on, yes misogyny is bad, but..."

We can discuss these issues without it being perceived as an attack on all men, or without having to talk about misandry as well.

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

There are always other opinions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064

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By *ndycoinsMan
over a year ago

Whaley Bridge,Nr Buxton,

On record in Hansard:-

Starmer"what you say in politics matters"

Baker"in that case would the honourable gentleman condemn the "lynch Esther McVay" and "Scum" comments of his colleagues?"

Starmer"oh dear,I thought we were having a sensible conversation"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Would love one day to see a conversation about misogyny that doesn't have a bloke popping up with "now hang on, yes misogyny is bad, but..."

We can discuss these issues without it being perceived as an attack on all men, or without having to talk about misandry as well."

Who’s done that? Me? If so, where?

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"There are always other opinions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064"

Do you mind quoting which bit you feel demonstrates a different opinion?

From the article above:

"What's become clear to investigators in both the police and MI5, as they scoop up the social media footprint left behind by the extremists, is how much cross-over there now is among a myriad of splintered extreme ideologies.

As of last September, almost 40% of reports sent to Prevent, the UK's national scheme for identifying people on the verge of violent extremism, were for "mixed ideologies". Incel beliefs were part of the mix.

Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, the head of UK counter-terrorism policing, told Parliament's Home Affairs Committee: "We don't know whether it is Islamist, or right wing, or left wing extremism or incel or....they are just interested in violence."

Another factor of concern is that many suspects in this group are very young - to all intents and purposes, isolated teenagers spending all of their lives in an online world.

This year a 16-year-old boy from Birmingham admitted three terrorism offences for possessing gun and bomb manuals.

The boy had a general fascination with terrorism, violence and inceldom.

From the age of 11, he had constantly posted in a forum about the Columbine massacre, taking part in disturbing exchanges stating that all women "deserve" to die. The prosecution case was that he did not hold any fixed ideology."

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!"

Herein lies the problem.

The very people who should be standing up to people like Tate take umbrage with anyone criticising him-perhaps because they feel emasculated or targeted because they are men.

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By *wist my nipplesCouple
over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!"

Here's my perspective. Every time I see anyone mention Andrew Tate, people pop up to say "oh, let's not bash all men". It's like we can't acknowledge a bad thing is happening in our society in case it upsets other innocent parties. You can draw whatever parallels you like there. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. From a general female perspective? It saddens and worries me. For my daughter, and my son.

Mrs TMN x

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!

Herein lies the problem.

The very people who should be standing up to people like Tate take umbrage with anyone criticising him-perhaps because they feel emasculated or targeted because they are men.

And their egos are dented, but they still cry 'but I love women!'

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!

Herein lies the problem.

The very people who should be standing up to people like Tate take umbrage with anyone criticising him-perhaps because they feel emasculated or targeted because they are men.

And their egos are dented, but they still cry 'but I love women!'

I think they cry "I love women [but not ones that openly espouse feminist ideals]"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wonderful thread mrskc and yes we absolutely should be talking about it.

Laura Bates and Dr Charlotte Proudman are two off the top of my head that have done some really interesting work on misogyny and incels. Worth a look at their work as it explains how the incel culture has grown, indoctrinated and harmed both men and women over the years.

Misogyny was put before the govt a while back to be included as a hate crime but surprise surprise our wonderful govt (boris I believe) said no. If that’s not oppression I don’t know what is!

As women, most if not all of us will have experienced misogyny at some point in our lives and talking about it educates and allows us to work towards eradicating it.

The incel movement is truly sad. Definitely a form of terrorism and should be treated as such. Marginalised young men are drawn in and brainwashed into thinking they are owed/deserve sex and are encouraged by the likes of Tate, Rogers, Peterson etc to take it. Society needs to be aware of this radicalisation in the same way it is regarding religious fanatics and look out for the vulnerable people who are likely to become targets. Otherwise we will end up with more deaths and r6pes of women.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!

Herein lies the problem.

The very people who should be standing up to people like Tate take umbrage with anyone criticising him-perhaps because they feel emasculated or targeted because they are men.

And their egos are dented, but they still cry 'but I love women!'

I think they cry "I love women [but not ones that openly espouse feminist ideals]""

I have regular telephone chats with a man who insists he loves women, then goes on to talk about how women are witches and practice bitchcraft on men, and all men who do bad things do so because they were brought up by women.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Would love one day to see a conversation about misogyny that doesn't have a bloke popping up with "now hang on, yes misogyny is bad, but..."

We can discuss these issues without it being perceived as an attack on all men, or without having to talk about misandry as well."

Same here. Thank you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wonderful thread mrskc and yes we absolutely should be talking about it.

Misogyny was put before the govt a while back to be included as a hate crime but surprise surprise our wonderful govt (boris I believe) said no. If that’s not oppression I don’t know what is!

As women, most if not all of us will have experienced misogyny at some point in our lives and talking about it educates and allows us to work towards eradicating it.

Big up Laura Bates

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!

Herein lies the problem.

The very people who should be standing up to people like Tate take umbrage with anyone criticising him-perhaps because they feel emasculated or targeted because they are men.

And their egos are dented, but they still cry 'but I love women!'

I think they cry "I love women [but not ones that openly espouse feminist ideals]"

May I ask why you continue to call him, if his views continue in spite of education/evidence? Feel free to tell me to butt out of your business too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wonderful thread mrskc and yes we absolutely should be talking about it.

Misogyny was put before the govt a while back to be included as a hate crime but surprise surprise our wonderful govt (boris I believe) said no. If that’s not oppression I don’t know what is!

As women, most if not all of us will have experienced misogyny at some point in our lives and talking about it educates and allows us to work towards eradicating it.

Big up Laura Bates "

You know she goes into schools and talks to young people about misogyny and Tate to try and stop it all taking off? Teens are the most impressionable age group to get drawn into this shit, she does amazing work

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Wonderful thread mrskc and yes we absolutely should be talking about it.

Misogyny was put before the govt a while back to be included as a hate crime but surprise surprise our wonderful govt (boris I believe) said no. If that’s not oppression I don’t know what is!

As women, most if not all of us will have experienced misogyny at some point in our lives and talking about it educates and allows us to work towards eradicating it.

Big up Laura Bates

Through work I have met 10 year olds that are big followers of Andrew Tate. That's terrifying to me. My partner has had to have conversations with his 11 year old nephew about stuff he has picked up from Andrew Tate.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!

Herein lies the problem.

The very people who should be standing up to people like Tate take umbrage with anyone criticising him-perhaps because they feel emasculated or targeted because they are men.

And their egos are dented, but they still cry 'but I love women!'

I think they cry "I love women [but not ones that openly espouse feminist ideals]"

May I ask why you continue to call him, if his views continue in spite of education/evidence? Feel free to tell me to butt out of your business too

He calls me, I listen.

He has no fixed abode, no family, few actual friends, a broken body and mind.

He's living a miserable existence, so I listen.

After our last conversation this morning I got the feeling he won't be around for longer.

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"Marginalised young men are drawn in and brainwashed into thinking they are owed/deserve sex and are encouraged by the likes of Tate, Rogers, Peterson etc to take it."

Who is Rogers? Also, I often see Peterson's name lumped in with Tates... baffling!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wonderful thread mrskc and yes we absolutely should be talking about it.

Misogyny was put before the govt a while back to be included as a hate crime but surprise surprise our wonderful govt (boris I believe) said no. If that’s not oppression I don’t know what is!

As women, most if not all of us will have experienced misogyny at some point in our lives and talking about it educates and allows us to work towards eradicating it.

Big up Laura Bates

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Herein lies the problem.

The very people who should be standing up to people like Tate take umbrage with anyone criticising him-perhaps because they feel emasculated or targeted because they are men.

And their egos are dented, but they still cry 'but I love women!'

Since you’ve said this directly in response to my comments I can only assume you’re saying this about me!

Oh Nanna, you clearly don’t know me at all!

And you clearly haven’t read (or understood) any of my comments on this thread.

Anyway, at risk of any more people saying or implying that I’m some sort of Tate or misogyny defender with hurty feelings (like NOWHERE have I done that!

) I’ll leave here, and post on the “show us yer tits, luv” threads instead*

(* yes, for the hard of thinking, I’m being deliberately misogynistic now …

)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wonderful thread mrskc and yes we absolutely should be talking about it.

Misogyny was put before the govt a while back to be included as a hate crime but surprise surprise our wonderful govt (boris I believe) said no. If that’s not oppression I don’t know what is!

As women, most if not all of us will have experienced misogyny at some point in our lives and talking about it educates and allows us to work towards eradicating it.

Big up Laura Bates

I’m my old job it was the same. So many young people in schools attracted to Tate, regurgitate his messaging and schools need support dealing with it

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

"There are always other opinions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064

Do you mind quoting which bit you feel demonstrates a different opinion?

From the article above:

Another factor of concern is that many suspects in this group are very young - to all intents and purposes, isolated teenagers spending all of their lives in an online world.

This year a 16-year-old boy from Birmingham admitted three terrorism offences for possessing gun and bomb manuals.

The boy had a general fascination with terrorism, violence and inceldom.

just this part.

The movement has been linked to serious violence around the world but, at the same time, experts in security and ideology say it would be wrong to call it a terror group.

The rest is for discussion.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"There are always other opinions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064

Do you mind quoting which bit you feel demonstrates a different opinion?

From the article above:

Another factor of concern is that many suspects in this group are very young - to all intents and purposes, isolated teenagers spending all of their lives in an online world.

This year a 16-year-old boy from Birmingham admitted three terrorism offences for possessing gun and bomb manuals.

The boy had a general fascination with terrorism, violence and inceldom.

just this part.

The movement has been linked to serious violence around the world but, at the same time, experts in security and ideology say it would be wrong to call it a terror group.

The rest is for discussion.

I understand that the incel movement overlaps with other movements that ARE categorised as terror groups and as Fluffy Chicken said above, attempts to categorised the incel movement as a terror group were thwarted by Boris Johnson's government. Which consisted of a number of nailed on fairly severe right wingers and several who espouse anti-female views.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Marginalised young men are drawn in and brainwashed into thinking they are owed/deserve sex and are encouraged by the likes of Tate, Rogers, Peterson etc to take it.

Who is Rogers? Also, I often see Peterson's name lumped in with Tates... baffling!"

Would you like to share more about Mr. Petersen, for those who don't know about him?

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"But let’s have perspective.

Tell me about your perspective.

For millenia, women have been on the receiving end of violence and oppression. And still are.

What more do you want me to say other than what I’ve already said : yes extreme misogyny is a worry. And Tate (and his followers) is a twat.

So my perspective? Let’s not use this as yet another all-encompassing man bashing / demonising / echo-chamber “men are inherently bad” thread.

Let’s see it for what it is: a group of extremists with extreme thoughts. Which should be policed accordingly the way you would any extremist threat to decent society!

Herein lies the problem.

The very people who should be standing up to people like Tate take umbrage with anyone criticising him-perhaps because they feel emasculated or targeted because they are men.

And their egos are dented, but they still cry 'but I love women!'

I think they cry "I love women [but not ones that openly espouse feminist ideals]"

May I ask why you continue to call him, if his views continue in spite of education/evidence? Feel free to tell me to butt out of your business too

He calls me, I listen.

He has no fixed abode, no family, few actual friends, a broken body and mind.

He's living a miserable existence, so I listen.

After our last conversation this morning I got the feeling he won't be around for longer.

That's a shame, Nanna. I'm assuming he's been referred to support services for the issues he faces?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Marginalised young men are drawn in and brainwashed into thinking they are owed/deserve sex and are encouraged by the likes of Tate, Rogers, Peterson etc to take it.

Who is Rogers? Also, I often see Peterson's name lumped in with Tates... baffling!"

Elliot Rodgers. An incel a lot of them aspire to. Did some murders because he couldn’t get laid. If you look up Laura Bates and the book she wrote called Men Who Hate Women she explains how inceldom is on a sliding scale, with the likes of Tate and Rodgers at the extreme end and Peterson at the more socially acceptable end. In a nutshell, he pedals the same message just in a more low-key way

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"Would love one day to see a conversation about misogyny that doesn't have a bloke popping up with "now hang on, yes misogyny is bad, but..."

We can discuss these issues without it being perceived as an attack on all men, or without having to talk about misandry as well."

I see it as deflection tactics.

Hey look at that over there instead of this terrible thing I don't like reading or discussing because I think they mean me.

No, we don't mean you, or you, or you, but pointing at something else you think is bad too isn't helpful.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"Marginalised young men are drawn in and brainwashed into thinking they are owed/deserve sex and are encouraged by the likes of Tate, Rogers, Peterson etc to take it.

Who is Rogers? Also, I often see Peterson's name lumped in with Tates... baffling!

And says 'I love women'.

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"Would you like to share more about Mr. Petersen, for those who don't know about him?"

I mean, I assumed they're referring to Dr. Petersen, the Canadian clinical psychologist, author and podcaster. Is there a Mr. Petersen? Also, who is Rogers? I'm not familiar with that name.

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London

The problem with tackling any kind of extremism has been that it's hard to take legal action against the extremists before they actually do something terrible. It's unfortunate because if you change the laws to arrest people before they commit action, we are entering the realms of government authoritarianism which will result in innocent people also getting arrested.

People like Tate and most other form of terrorists know this very well and just stay behind the line. That's the reason why it was hard for the Romanian government to charge him.

I wonder what's the solution for these.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Would you like to share more about Mr. Petersen, for those who don't know about him?

I mean, I assumed they're referring to Dr. Petersen, the Canadian clinical psychologist, author and podcaster. Is there a Mr. Petersen? Also, who is Rogers? I'm not familiar with that name."

You are well aware of which Petersen you referred to, as you referred to him. It would be lovely to understand how you think he becomes conflated with Tate and others.

Elliot Rodger has been explained further up, I think by Fluffy Chicken. But I think you know who he was.

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"Elliot Rodgers. An incel a lot of them aspire to. Did some murders because he couldn’t get laid."

Ah, okay. So not like a social media personality type, then. I assumed maybe they were, being listed together with the other two names like that.

"If you look up Laura Bates and the book she wrote called Men Who Hate Women she explains how inceldom is on a sliding scale, with the likes of Tate and Rodgers at the extreme end and Peterson at the more socially acceptable end. In a nutshell, he pedals the same message just in a more low-key way"

Okay? Without knowing what this message is, I'm going to assume that the fact one is socially acceptable, while the other is very much NOT so, the disction might be important, no?

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

"There are always other opinions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064

Do you mind quoting which bit you feel demonstrates a different opinion?

From the article above:

Another factor of concern is that many suspects in this group are very young - to all intents and purposes, isolated teenagers spending all of their lives in an online world.

This year a 16-year-old boy from Birmingham admitted three terrorism offences for possessing gun and bomb manuals.

The boy had a general fascination with terrorism, violence and inceldom.

just this part.

The movement has been linked to serious violence around the world but, at the same time, experts in security and ideology say it would be wrong to call it a terror group.

The rest is for discussion.

Yes it states that in the article, this has not made them a terrorist threat, I believe terrorists are organised, have funding, weapons available and are politically vocal.

Incels are single men who converse mainly on forums and chat rooms from their homes, angry that they cannot get what they want it seems. In this country access to guns isn't easy as well.

The government has put the stop on calling incels terrorists I wasn't aware of that, so your discussion should not be with me, but your local M.P. and theses far right wingers and those who hold anti female views do you know who they are?

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

And don't forget Lyle.

Tate should not be mentioned in the same breath without acknowledging Lyle ..

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"There are always other opinions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064

Do you mind quoting which bit you feel demonstrates a different opinion?

From the article above:

Another factor of concern is that many suspects in this group are very young - to all intents and purposes, isolated teenagers spending all of their lives in an online world.

This year a 16-year-old boy from Birmingham admitted three terrorism offences for possessing gun and bomb manuals.

The boy had a general fascination with terrorism, violence and inceldom.

just this part.

The movement has been linked to serious violence around the world but, at the same time, experts in security and ideology say it would be wrong to call it a terror group.

The rest is for discussion.

Yes it states that in the article, this has not made them a terrorist threat, I believe terrorists are organised, have funding, weapons available and are politically vocal.

Incels are single men who converse mainly on forums and chat rooms from their homes, angry that they cannot get what they want it seems. In this country access to guns isn't easy as well.

Here's one of the anti female ones, also on the Equalities Committee, somehow.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Davies

My local MP is not the sort of chap who would care about adding incel culture to the list of terrorist groups. He's too concerned about not rocking any boats because he's a Conservative MP in a traditionally Labour constituency, so has a big fight to be re-elected next time. His response to my communication on the proposal to close railway ticket offices was an embarrassment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Elliot Rodgers. An incel a lot of them aspire to. Did some murders because he couldn’t get laid.

Ah, okay. So not like a social media personality type, then. I assumed maybe they were, being listed together with the other two names like that.

If you look up Laura Bates and the book she wrote called Men Who Hate Women she explains how inceldom is on a sliding scale, with the likes of Tate and Rodgers at the extreme end and Peterson at the more socially acceptable end. In a nutshell, he pedals the same message just in a more low-key way

Okay? Without knowing what this message is, I'm going to assume that the fact one is socially acceptable, while the other is very much NOT so, the disction might be important, no?"

I mean to me personally neither end of the scale is socially acceptable. Peterson manages to peddle his wares in a way that doesn’t make it immediately apparent what his end game is.

It’s a bit like saying on one end you’ve a broken toe, the other end you’ve broken every bone in your body and you’re in traction. Each end hurts, just in different ways and to different degrees

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman
over a year ago

Carlisle usually

"Okay? Without knowing what this message is, I'm going to assume that the fact one is socially acceptable, while the other is very much NOT so, the disction might be important, no?"

More socially acceptable. But not actually acceptable by anyone with half an ounce of empathy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are always other opinions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064

Do you mind quoting which bit you feel demonstrates a different opinion?

From the article above:

Another factor of concern is that many suspects in this group are very young - to all intents and purposes, isolated teenagers spending all of their lives in an online world.

This year a 16-year-old boy from Birmingham admitted three terrorism offences for possessing gun and bomb manuals.

The boy had a general fascination with terrorism, violence and inceldom.

just this part.

The movement has been linked to serious violence around the world but, at the same time, experts in security and ideology say it would be wrong to call it a terror group.

The rest is for discussion.

Yes it states that in the article, this has not made them a terrorist threat, I believe terrorists are organised, have funding, weapons available and are politically vocal.

Incels are single men who converse mainly on forums and chat rooms from their homes, angry that they cannot get what they want it seems. In this country access to guns isn't easy as well.

The basic definition of a terrorist is ‘the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.’, they don’t need to be funded, weaponised or politically vocal. They just need to have an objective, in this case to kill/harm women, and use violence or the threat of violence to scare people

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By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"And don't forget Lyle.

Tate should not be mentioned in the same breath without acknowledging Lyle .."

Tom never forgets to stir.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"And don't forget Lyle.

Tate should not be mentioned in the same breath without acknowledging Lyle ..

Tom never forgets to stir."

Two cubes with a silver spoon plz and a small dash of cow juice....

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"It would be lovely to understand how you think he becomes conflated with Tate and others."

They're both social media "influencers"... beyond that, I couldn't tell you. Thus my bafflement.

"Elliot Rodger has been explained further up, I think by Fluffy Chicken. But I think you know who he was."

Yeah, one of the murderers from the linked article, right? Honestly, I may have heard / seen something about him in the news, if it was covered at the time? But beyond that, no, I'd not come across the name Rogers in the same way one might hear names of social media celebrities such as Tate and Peterson. Yet they were listed together in a way that suggested there might be such a link. So I asked. Is that okay with you??

"Peterson manages to peddle his wares in a way that doesn’t make it immediately apparent what his end game is."

His "wares"? His "end game"?? Could I just, like, get a direct answer on what exactly makes Tate and Peterson the same ilk in this context?

"More socially acceptable. But not actually acceptable by anyone with half an ounce of empathy"

So how are he and Tate the same, then?

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

It's curious how people who have tried to prevent us from posting on other threads that involve them, wish to engage with us on this one. Very interesting.

Anyhow, it's a freeeeeee world*

*to be sung in the manner of Mr. F. Mercury.

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman
over a year ago

Carlisle usually

"So how are he and Tate the same, then?"

I didn't claim they were the same.

Peterson may stick closer to the 80/20 rule to get the disgusting parts sneaked under the skin while Tate is at least open about it. They're both awful people leading impressionable young men down an abhorrent path, but they're not the same.

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By *wist my nipplesCouple
over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly

"And don't forget Lyle.

Tate should not be mentioned in the same breath without acknowledging Lyle .."

Not you again with your nonsense.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Jordan Petersen:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/jordan-peterson-court-case-decision-1.6943845

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66520089

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jun/13/tony-abbott-and-john-howard-join-jordan-peterson-led-group-looking-at-meaning-of-life

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/commentisfree/2023/feb/02/jordan-petersons-zombie-climate-contrarianism-follows-a-well-worn-path

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"Peterson may stick closer to the 80/20 rule to get the disgusting parts sneaked under the skin while Tate is at least open about it. They're both awful people leading impressionable young men down an abhorrent path, but they're not the same."

What parts are disgusting? What about the path is abhorrent? Is any of it as bad as the things Tate has done / said / is currently accused of??

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"Jordan Petersen:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/jordan-peterson-court-case-decision-1.6943845

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66520089

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jun/13/tony-abbott-and-john-howard-join-jordan-peterson-led-group-looking-at-meaning-of-life

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/commentisfree/2023/feb/02/jordan-petersons-zombie-climate-contrarianism-follows-a-well-worn-path

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson"

What's he said / done that's comparable to Tate?

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By *enSiskoMan
over a year ago

Cestus 3

"There are always other opinions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064

Do you mind quoting which bit you feel demonstrates a different opinion?

From the article above:

Another factor of concern is that many suspects in this group are very young - to all intents and purposes, isolated teenagers spending all of their lives in an online world.

This year a 16-year-old boy from Birmingham admitted three terrorism offences for possessing gun and bomb manuals.

The boy had a general fascination with terrorism, violence and inceldom.

just this part.

The movement has been linked to serious violence around the world but, at the same time, experts in security and ideology say it would be wrong to call it a terror group.

The rest is for discussion.

Yes it states that in the article, this has not made them a terrorist threat, I believe terrorists are organised, have funding, weapons available and are politically vocal.

Incels are single men who converse mainly on forums and chat rooms from their homes, angry that they cannot get what they want it seems. In this country access to guns isn't easy as well.

Ok politically objective, but no need to be politically vocal.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Jordan Petersen:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/jordan-peterson-court-case-decision-1.6943845

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66520089

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jun/13/tony-abbott-and-john-howard-join-jordan-peterson-led-group-looking-at-meaning-of-life

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/commentisfree/2023/feb/02/jordan-petersons-zombie-climate-contrarianism-follows-a-well-worn-path

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson

What's he said / done that's comparable to Tate?"

That wasn't my comment so I'll leave that commentator to contribute. I have shared some varied material on Petersen for those who don't know about him and people can make their own minds up.

It was you who picked up on him and started to post about him, so perhaps you'd like to share your viewpoint of Petersen?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Peterson manages to peddle his wares in a way that doesn’t make it immediately apparent what his end game is.

His "wares"? His "end game"?? Could I just, like, get a direct answer on what exactly makes Tate and Peterson the same ilk in this context?

Of course. Peterson has been placed under the umbrella term of men’s rights activists (MRAs) by academics and feminist organisations. When, in January 2019, the American psychological association publicly acknowledged that ‘traditional masculinity is psychologically harmful and that socialising boys to suppress their emotions causes damage’, Peterson dubbed the new guidelines as ‘reprehensible, infuriating and disheartening’, claiming the APA was dominated by left leaning political activists. The general objection by Peterson and others was that the guidelines acknowledged men as beneficiaries of privilege within a patriarchal society.

The point being that Peterson and friends actively encouraged men and boys to stick to traditional patriarchal values and beliefs, including not reaching out for help with emotions, thus doing nothing to help with the prevalence of such high rates of male suicide. Thus, not only is Peterson encouraging the patriarchy, therefore keeping women subjugated and oppressed, but also harming men by encouraging them to ‘man up’ and not seek help when it is necessary.

Peterson and tate are, therefore, two sides of the same coin and it is right to link them and their beliefs.

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman
over a year ago

Carlisle usually

"What parts are disgusting? What about the path is abhorrent? Is any of it as bad as the things Tate has done / said / is currently accused of??"

That women should be assigned to lonely men so that they don't murder people was a real doozy. But there's a whole lot of vicious and dehumanising content buried in pseudoscience and well masked by the actual scientific content.

I believe he is worse than Tate for the insidiousness of his approach, but I'm also more likely to forgive someone who has only fallen for his sneaky shit rather than the blatant Blackpill and modern slav3ry shit that Tate peddles.

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By *ycanNightsMan
over a year ago

Workington

"So how are he and Tate the same, then?

I didn't claim they were the same.

Not the same...yet both cunts

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"What parts are disgusting? What about the path is abhorrent? Is any of it as bad as the things Tate has done / said / is currently accused of??

Totally agree with the insidious-ness comment here (and the rest of it!)

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By *ris GrayMan
over a year ago

Dorchester

"omg here we go

Here we go in what way?"
you know exactly what i meant by that

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"It was you who picked up on him and started to post about him, so perhaps you'd like to share your viewpoint of Petersen?"

I picked up on his name being dropped in with Tate's. Something I've never understood the connection. So I'm asking what the connection is? Still haven't had an answer, though...

"The point being that Peterson and friends actively encouraged men and boys to stick to traditional patriarchal values and beliefs, including not reaching out for help with emotions, thus doing nothing to help with the prevalence of such high rates of male suicide. Thus, not only is Peterson encouraging the patriarchy, therefore keeping women subjugated and oppressed, but also harming men by encouraging them to ‘man up’ and not seek help when it is necessary."

Where and when did he actively discourage men and boys from reaching out if and when they needed it? As a clinical psychologist that puts him out of a job.

"That women should be assigned to lonely men so that they don't murder people was a real doozy."

Where / when did he say this?

"But there's a whole lot of vicious and dehumanising content buried in pseudoscience and well masked by the actual scientific content."

Is there? Like what? Where?

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"omg here we go

Here we go in what way?you know exactly what i meant by that

I do not. Please do elaborate.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored. "

Would you mind giving more on what you think the actual issue is, perhaps?

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman
over a year ago

Carlisle usually

"That women should be assigned to lonely men so that they don't murder people was a real doozy.

Where / when did he say this?"

Early 2018 when talking about the Minassian was when it was most blatant.

"He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”

Mr. Peterson does not pause when he says this. Enforced monogamy is, to him, simply a rational solution. Otherwise women will all only go for the most high-status men, he explains, and that couldn’t make either gender happy in the end.

“Half the men fail,” he says, meaning that they don’t procreate. “And no one cares about the men who fail.”

His rhetoric is that the patriarchy should continue as is, that the things we call toxic masculinity (such as not seeking help or admitting weakness) should be maintained.

A quick Google will bring you articles and transcripts from what he has said over the years. I don't need to be doing that work for you. If you don't want to see what he is doing, that's your choice, keep blindly following. As long as you're only harming yourself in the process it's not really anyone else's concern I suppose.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored.

Would you mind giving more on what you think the actual issue is, perhaps?"

The world has changed and will keep doing so. The old order has been replaced and the role of men in society going forward is uncertain. Tate offers certainty to people who don't have it.

I don't see his appeal as any different from trump. They're both an appeal to an idealised masculinity.

If I had to summarise in one word what the problem is I'd say loneliness. The lack of connections is the opportunity that Tate and the masculine right exploit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm late to the party, and reading through in admiration of MrsKC, Prey and Fluffy in particular.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The problem with tackling any kind of extremism has been that it's hard to take legal action against the extremists before they actually do something terrible. It's unfortunate because if you change the laws to arrest people before they commit action, we are entering the realms of government authoritarianism which will result in innocent people also getting arrested.

People like Tate and most other form of terrorists know this very well and just stay behind the line. That's the reason why it was hard for the Romanian government to charge him.

I wonder what's the solution for these."

I think deradicalising is possible for followers. Working with them in safe environments to challenge their views and remind them how it’s not aligned with society etc. I don’t know too much but I have heard some former racists talk about leaving racists groups and deradicalising etc

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored.

Would you mind giving more on what you think the actual issue is, perhaps?

The world has changed and will keep doing so. The old order has been replaced and the role of men in society going forward is uncertain. Tate offers certainty to people who don't have it.

I don't see his appeal as any different from trump. They're both an appeal to an idealised masculinity.

If I had to summarise in one word what the problem is I'd say loneliness. The lack of connections is the opportunity that Tate and the masculine right exploit. "

Do you not think feeling inadequate as part of the problem? Or feeling not masculine enough?

There are people in the world who can build men's confidence without telling them how to treat women.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored.

Would you mind giving more on what you think the actual issue is, perhaps?

The world has changed and will keep doing so. The old order has been replaced and the role of men in society going forward is uncertain. Tate offers certainty to people who don't have it.

I don't see his appeal as any different from trump. They're both an appeal to an idealised masculinity.

If I had to summarise in one word what the problem is I'd say loneliness. The lack of connections is the opportunity that Tate and the masculine right exploit. "

Focusing on Tate is fighting the last war and only serves to reinforce his appeal. It makes him stronger for the guardian to do this piece. It's Hillary and the 'basket of deplorables' all over again.

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By *ostindreamsMan
over a year ago

London

People like Tate and most other form of terrorists know this very well and just stay behind the line. That's the reason why it was hard for the Romanian government to charge him.

I wonder what's the solution for these.

Yes, it would be great to use some kind of support groups to deradicalise extremists. The challenge there would be to get them to be open for support. People like them are too stubborn with their views. But still even if a small number of them are deradicalised, it will be a big win.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored.

Would you mind giving more on what you think the actual issue is, perhaps?

The world has changed and will keep doing so. The old order has been replaced and the role of men in society going forward is uncertain. Tate offers certainty to people who don't have it.

I don't see his appeal as any different from trump. They're both an appeal to an idealised masculinity.

If I had to summarise in one word what the problem is I'd say loneliness. The lack of connections is the opportunity that Tate and the masculine right exploit.

Do you not think feeling inadequate as part of the problem? Or feeling not masculine enough?

There are people in the world who can build men's confidence without telling them how to treat women.

It's a societal issue that's multi faceted and won't be solved in the short term. There's honestly so many different aspects to address. But understand that I abhor the misogyny that Tate et al espouses and it horrible to hear but I don't think it's the actual issue. Like I said in my comment above, focusing and reacting to what Tate says is exactly what he wants.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where and when did he actively discourage men and boys from reaching out if and when they needed it? As a clinical psychologist that puts him out of a job

Rule 11 of Petersons 12 rules for life: do not bother children when they are skateboarding. The takeaway here is that boys are not boyish enough, and ‘toughen up, you weasel’. Read the whole thing and you’ll see the message.

As an aside, let’s not forget Peterson shot to fame in the mainstream media in 2016 by being publicly transphobic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm late to the party, and reading through in admiration of MrsKC, Prey and Fluffy in particular. "

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

When I think of Incels I can’t help think of that creature who gunned those people down in Plymouth. That chap out taking his adopted daughter for a summers evening stroll. Makes me sad to even think about it.

My friend had a child turn up as Tate to their school fancy dress day. They did a prevent referral

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored. "

This

I have just googled the top 10 worst misogynistic countries, and their culture demographics, compared to what cultures we have here now, is growing, rapidly.

There are so many young impressionable men who are searching for someone to follow.

Yes Tate shouts the loudest, but it's the quiet ones I'm worried about, the ones who stealth behind the scenes and take extremist to the extreme

We as parents should be educating our sons and daughters, schools can only do so much

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"Early 2018 when talking about the Minassian was when it was most blatant.

"He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”"

Ah, okay. The "enforced monogamy" controversy. He's already refuted that he wasn't saying what a lot of people mistakenly took from that. I.e. that there should be some sort of state-enforcement of "assigning" damsels to lonley incels or any such nonsense. "Enforced monogamy" is simply something that already exists on a socio-cultural level. It does sound kind of aggressive, I'll give you that.

"His rhetoric is that the patriarchy should continue as is, that the things we call toxic masculinity (such as not seeking help or admitting weakness) should be maintained."

Is it, though? Where and when has he said this? Taking a single example: incels. Whenever I've seen or heard him talk about the 'incel movement' it's that they should stop blaming women rejecting them for all their problems and pull their socks up, because maybe if women keep rejecting you maybe they've got a point, and something about you needs to change, etc. How is this not wanting things to change? How is it wanting things to say as they are? How is it supportive of 'toxic masculinity' (which viewing all of womenkind as an enemy to be blamed I'd count as toxic)?

"A quick Google will bring you articles and transcripts from what he has said over the years. I don't need to be doing that work for you. If you don't want to see what he is doing, that's your choice, keep blindly following."

But I have, though. I've done the google searches, I've watched the YT videos, I've listened to the podcasts.... nothing "vile" or "abhorrent" sticks out to me. I'm more than willing to admit I may have missed something (blind), but for the life of me every single time I ask for an example of what that might be I get the same nothing-burger response; "just google him you'll see..." Okay? Didn't work. The things Tate has said? The things it looks very much like he's guilty of doing? Now that's a different thing entirely...

"Rule 11 of Petersons 12 rules for life: do not bother children when they are skateboarding. The takeaway here is that boys are not boyish enough, and ‘toughen up, you weasel’. Read the whole thing and you’ll see the message."

My takeaway was... a little different. Like, boys will often seek out danger, or 'rough-n-tumble' play, in order to practice being courageous. As in, working to become competent, or mastering a skill, even in the face of risk. And if you listen to Peterson explain this, from the horse's mouth, that's what he'll say. Nowhere in there have I ever seen or heard anything to even remotely suggest being actively discouraging of men and boys seeking professional help when and if they need it. I don't know how / where you've made that leap.

"As an aside, let’s not forget Peterson shot to fame in the mainstream media in 2016 by being publicly transphobic."

Or, because he disagrees with state-enforcment / control over a citizen's tongue / words. And yes, let's leave it as an aside, as it doesn't really relate to anything I've asked about.

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"So how are he and Tate the same, then?

I didn't claim they were the same.

You mean the jordan peterson who tells young men to clean their room, step up and take responsibility at work and in their personal lives, stay away from porn, and find a woman to have a monogamous relationship with and start a family with?

What a dastardly human being...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored.

This

I have just googled the top 10 worst misogynistic countries, and their culture demographics, compared to what cultures we have here now, is growing, rapidly.

There are so many young impressionable men who are searching for someone to follow.

Yes Tate shouts the loudest, but it's the quiet ones I'm worried about, the ones who stealth behind the scenes and take extremist to the extreme

We as parents should be educating our sons and daughters, schools can only do so much"

But what if the parents don't? What if they're not aware enough or if they just don't think Tate is saying anything wrong. My year 10 son (aged 15) says 3/4 of the boys in his year idolise Tate. By the time the school warned parents, the kids were already on board.

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By *uke_silverMan
over a year ago

London

His "wares"? His "end game"?? Could I just, like, get a direct answer on what exactly makes Tate and Peterson the same ilk in this context?

Greetings fellow human who separated from lobsters on the evolutionary time scale ~400 million years ago. Could I interest you in this very brief and informative video about the smart and normal Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: https://youtu.be/hSNWkRw53Jo

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

His "wares"? His "end game"?? Could I just, like, get a direct answer on what exactly makes Tate and Peterson the same ilk in this context?

Oh wow, a heeelarious video that pauses at every word he says to frame everything completely out of context by some unfunny clown.

Jesus, im all for critically analysing someone, and people are free to take or leave him as they wish. But is a bit of intelligence in doing so too much to ask for?

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By *oxy jWoman
over a year ago

somerset

Misogynist extremism are everywhere not hard to find on fab .... however i refuse to put all men in one group as there are alot more good than bad...

just as there are men who view women as second class there are plenty of women who view men in the same way ...theres bad in every group ...

well thats my opionion anyway im not saying its not a worry as it clearly is but its not a one way street

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

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By *uke_silverMan
over a year ago

London

His "wares"? His "end game"?? Could I just, like, get a direct answer on what exactly makes Tate and Peterson the same ilk in this context?

Oh wow, a heeelarious video that pauses at every word he says to frame everything completely out of context by some unfunny clown.

Jesus, im all for critically analysing someone, and people are free to take or leave him as they wish. But is a bit of intelligence in doing so too much to ask for? "

Oh, wow! Is one of the skills Jorbson teaches speed video watching? The video is just under 3 hours long, yet you somehow managed to watch and summarise it in under 5 minutes?! That's "heeelarious"

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

His "wares"? His "end game"?? Could I just, like, get a direct answer on what exactly makes Tate and Peterson the same ilk in this context?

Oh wow, a heeelarious video that pauses at every word he says to frame everything completely out of context by some unfunny clown.

Jesus, im all for critically analysing someone, and people are free to take or leave him as they wish. But is a bit of intelligence in doing so too much to ask for?

Oh, wow! Is one of the skills Jorbson teaches speed video watching? The video is just under 3 hours long, yet you somehow managed to watch and summarise it in under 5 minutes?! That's "heeelarious""

I certainly dont need to waste 3 hours of my life when i can tell right off the bat the kind of nosnense it is. I refer to my above suggestion of perhaps getting a life

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman
over a year ago

Carlisle usually

Why do you keep bringing Tate bring worse into it?

Well at least it's not as bad as someone else has been is a common rhetoric in my inbox here when people fall below what I consider an acceptable level. And it doesn't make the failings of the less obvious bad any better.

I am happily dosed up on endorphins, I am not drowning myself in pointless rereading of his drivel to find and quote to you, particularly when you are happily set in your ways and don't wish to consider the other angles.

Misogynist extremism exists. And people like him perpetuate the ideals and encourage people down that path. Perhaps you are managing to interpret it in a wholesome and positive way, but a great many people have not, on both sides of the debate.

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"Greetings fellow human who separated from lobsters on the evolutionary time scale ~400 million years ago. Could I interest you in this very brief and informative video about the smart and normal Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: https://youtu.be/hSNWkRw53Jo"

Greetings. Maybe you and I separated from the lobsters at slightly different times, as unfortunately I don't consider 3 hours to be "very brief", although it may well be informative. In any case, your answer to my question is a "no". *sigh*

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By *uke_silverMan
over a year ago

London

His "wares"? His "end game"?? Could I just, like, get a direct answer on what exactly makes Tate and Peterson the same ilk in this context?

Oh wow, a heeelarious video that pauses at every word he says to frame everything completely out of context by some unfunny clown.

Jesus, im all for critically analysing someone, and people are free to take or leave him as they wish. But is a bit of intelligence in doing so too much to ask for?

Oh, wow! Is one of the skills Jorbson teaches speed video watching? The video is just under 3 hours long, yet you somehow managed to watch and summarise it in under 5 minutes?! That's "heeelarious"

I certainly dont need to waste 3 hours of my life when i can tell right off the bat the kind of nosnense it is. I refer to my above suggestion of perhaps getting a life"

I can't help but laugh at the delicious irony here. Thank you!

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By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me"

-I don't think you'd have said any of that if you shared the general view here. People *have* to talk about this stuff - it's actually grown and grown *without* the required attention, and people now (schools especially) are being almost alarmed into action.

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored.

This

I have just googled the top 10 worst misogynistic countries, and their culture demographics, compared to what cultures we have here now, is growing, rapidly.

There are so many young impressionable men who are searching for someone to follow.

Yes Tate shouts the loudest, but it's the quiet ones I'm worried about, the ones who stealth behind the scenes and take extremist to the extreme

We as parents should be educating our sons and daughters, schools can only do so much

That's just another failure of parenting that doesn't want or fails to understand the danger that social media poses. It's not the schools role to do the heavy lifting on this one. But the education system is partially to blame.

Tate is banned from all the platforms for now. But that's fine, he doesn't need them anymore. He has his disciples.

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

pt"

Youre right, i dont share the general view. Ill bet the vast majority of people in know very little about the things andrew tate says beyond the odd 10 second youtube clip and then arrive at thr conclusion in their twitter echo chamber that hes the devil incarnate.

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life"

That's so easy to say and so disconnected from reality. People live online. They share, they shop, they arrange to hook up, they work.

They don't go to pubs or youth clubs. They don't even watch TV together. They watch content that is intended to make them feel bad about themselves and isolate them even further.

It's beyond simplistic to say the answer is to get off social media and get a life. That is their life now.

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By *erces LetiferMan
over a year ago

Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters

"Why do you keep bringing Tate bring worse into it?"

Because... that was my whole point from the beginning? As in, "I keep seeing Peterson's name lumped in with Tate's, and I wonder why?" That's what started my whole engagement with this thread. I look at the kinds of things Tate has said, done, and is currently being investigated for, and I see some very bad things. Then I do the same for Peterson, and get told how "vile", "disgusting" and "abhorrent" he is. And I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing the connection. Tate is clearly far worse. That's why.

"I am happily dosed up on endorphins, I am not drowning myself in pointless rereading of his drivel to find and quote to you, particularly when you are happily set in your ways and don't wish to consider the other angles."

More than happy to consider anything and everything you can find on him for me. All I've done is ask "why is Peterson like / the same / similar to Tate?" And so I've been told about all these terrible things he's done and said. Okay? Fine. So my follow-up question, naturally, is "where and when did he say / do these awful things?"... and... nothing. *shrug*

"Misogynist extremism exists. And people like him perpetuate the ideals and encourage people down that path."

I've yet to see, hear, or be presented with anything of his that comes close to "perpetuing and encouraging misogynist extremism". And every time I ask for it people run from the debate. I'm happy to have a discussion with you about it. If you're not, then, well... that's the end of that. Your happy endorphins sound like a better use of your time, I won't deny. So with that I wish you a pleasant evening.

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life

That's so easy to say and so disconnected from reality. People live online. They share, they shop, they arrange to hook up, they work.

They don't go to pubs or youth clubs. They don't even watch TV together. They watch content that is intended to make them feel bad about themselves and isolate them even further.

It's beyond simplistic to say the answer is to get off social media and get a life. That is their life now. "

It really isnt.

All it takes is a bit of, you know, parenting. That sounds like it might be anathema to some folk in here.

And for the parents to do likewise and get off social media

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored.

This

I have just googled the top 10 worst misogynistic countries, and their culture demographics, compared to what cultures we have here now, is growing, rapidly.

There are so many young impressionable men who are searching for someone to follow.

Yes Tate shouts the loudest, but it's the quiet ones I'm worried about, the ones who stealth behind the scenes and take extremist to the extreme

We as parents should be educating our sons and daughters, schools can only do so much

Tate is banned from all the platforms for now. But that's fine, he doesn't need them anymore. He has his disciples. "

It's not a parenting failure. It's a society failure. Misogyny existed long before social media, but SM has meant that those ideas can reach further than ever before.

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By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Sorry for the repost (these are all the same topic to me)... but I have added a link this time....

I've been spending a lot of time with young men lately (throughout their 20's mainly), a number of who are really into Andrew Tate. Those ones really, really admire him. Tate being the wild conspiracy theorist who made his money from grooming vulnerable young women for his webcam business (ie by coercing them into it - only to find that even supposedly 'looser' Romania now has its own laws relating to that) and who charged 50 dollars a month for 'masculinity lessons' to aspirational young males that included lessons like "Grab, slap, ch*ke, shut up b*tch - sex." (it's all on audio/video record of course - he did this).

The idea that men can just take ownership of women's bodies *in any way* is totally unacceptable. When men like this lay their unwanted hands on each other, it's either called bullying or it's called war. But when they do it to women it's now too-often part of some lazy-minded political ('anti-woke') backlash that's entirely spurious in conception. Yes these men see themselves as 'heroes' (or 'protectors' in the case of women) of masculinity.

Rubiales just wouldn't properly apologise or resign (he decided to pretend it was pre-arranged instead - and of course women are ALWAYS duplicitous in these matters aren't they?), and he will see himself as a hero for certain. And to many young men today sadly, that is what he'll be. "When will the woman own up to lying about her agreement?" is the kind of question those kids would ask about Hermoso.

Despite only a few percent of expected r*pes-even (forget assaults) going to court, those kids are convinced - largely because of Tate and of course because of "I don't even wait" Trump - that there is genuinely a global epidemic of spiteful women attacking innocent men in this area - all to the tune where the statistics are pretty-much reversed (ie over 90% of the the most serious cases are viewed by them as conspired by women, and are not down to aggressive males at all).

It's incredibly hard for women to see any kind of justice in an area that is actually increasing over modern times (even if the recompense is just to recognise it happening and help slow it down). The time it has taken for FIFA to suspend this guy is ultimately evidence of that horrible fact, regardless of it being over this particular level of enactment. It's been news for a reason, people. Stop being so paranoid and cynical of every damn thing that isn't gammon fried on gammon fried on gammon.

Sorry for coming on so strong, but it's supposed to be 2023 and I just cannot see how people can remotely excuse this kind of stuff.

Let's get rid!

Citation for the horrible quote: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001hwxh

Looks like the BBC are now letting people download this for free (I used to quote a podcast from somewhere else.)

(the last couple of days this story has blown open, I know)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life

That's so easy to say and so disconnected from reality. People live online. They share, they shop, they arrange to hook up, they work.

They don't go to pubs or youth clubs. They don't even watch TV together. They watch content that is intended to make them feel bad about themselves and isolate them even further.

It's beyond simplistic to say the answer is to get off social media and get a life. That is their life now.

It really isnt.

All it takes is a bit of, you know, parenting. That sounds like it might be anathema to some folk in here.

And for the parents to do likewise and get off social media"

Says a man on a social media platform...

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Why do you keep bringing Tate bring worse into it?

Misogynist extremism exists. And people like him perpetuate the ideals and encourage people down that path.

And you wont hear these mythical things either.

This person has just heard it in his/her echo chamber and is now parroting it in here. You know the drill by now

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life

That's so easy to say and so disconnected from reality. People live online. They share, they shop, they arrange to hook up, they work.

They don't go to pubs or youth clubs. They don't even watch TV together. They watch content that is intended to make them feel bad about themselves and isolate them even further.

It's beyond simplistic to say the answer is to get off social media and get a life. That is their life now.

It really isnt.

All it takes is a bit of, you know, parenting. That sounds like it might be anathema to some folk in here.

And for the parents to do likewise and get off social media

Says a man on a social media platform..."

Not really. This is just a fuck site to find casual sex on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life

That's so easy to say and so disconnected from reality. People live online. They share, they shop, they arrange to hook up, they work.

They don't go to pubs or youth clubs. They don't even watch TV together. They watch content that is intended to make them feel bad about themselves and isolate them even further.

It's beyond simplistic to say the answer is to get off social media and get a life. That is their life now.

It really isnt.

All it takes is a bit of, you know, parenting. That sounds like it might be anathema to some folk in here.

And for the parents to do likewise and get off social media

Says a man on a social media platform...

Not really. This is just a fuck site to find casual sex on"

Wikipedia: Social media are interactive technologies that facilitate the creation and sharing of information, ideas, interests, and other forms of expression through virtual communities and networks.

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life

That's so easy to say and so disconnected from reality. People live online. They share, they shop, they arrange to hook up, they work.

They don't go to pubs or youth clubs. They don't even watch TV together. They watch content that is intended to make them feel bad about themselves and isolate them even further.

It's beyond simplistic to say the answer is to get off social media and get a life. That is their life now.

It really isnt.

All it takes is a bit of, you know, parenting. That sounds like it might be anathema to some folk in here.

And for the parents to do likewise and get off social media

Says a man on a social media platform...

Not really. This is just a fuck site to find casual sex on

Wikipedia: Social media are interactive technologies that facilitate the creation and sharing of information, ideas, interests, and other forms of expression through virtual communities and networks."

Well done, you can quote wikipedia.

You know what i mean...twitter,facebook, instagram etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think arguing whether Peterson is as bad as Tate is derailing the disxussion. Perhaps a separate thread?

And it doesn't really matter anyway. Put Tate in jail and another 20 will be along.

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By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life"

-You can't even get out of this thread and you lecture other people!! Tate has made his name on social media, it is *obviously* part of the problem. At least this thread is about people using social media for something good.

Read my post below, Search for Tate's name now (if you have the actual guts to read what's around now) and then tell us all we need to 'get a life'.

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman
over a year ago

Carlisle usually

"This person has just heard it in his/her echo chamber and is now parroting it in here. You know the drill by now"

Or I've seen multiple references to Petersen within incel and mgtow communities which demonstrates that what he says is taken that way by people on the blackpill/redpill path, and so is having an effect on the way people view and perpetuate masculinity.

But whatever. I'm out

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored.

This

I have just googled the top 10 worst misogynistic countries, and their culture demographics, compared to what cultures we have here now, is growing, rapidly.

There are so many young impressionable men who are searching for someone to follow.

Yes Tate shouts the loudest, but it's the quiet ones I'm worried about, the ones who stealth behind the scenes and take extremist to the extreme

We as parents should be educating our sons and daughters, schools can only do so much

Tate is banned from all the platforms for now. But that's fine, he doesn't need them anymore. He has his disciples. "

Tate isn't banned from whatever Twitter now is and although he may be banned from other platforms, his videos are cut and clipped into the context of others who are NOT banned and are still being passed around. He explicitly told his supporters to pass around the content as much as possible, they believe they're doing good work in doing so etc.

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life

Read my post below, Search for Tate's name now (if you have the actual guts to read what's around now) and then tell us all we need to 'get a life'.

pt"

Get a life pal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life

That's so easy to say and so disconnected from reality. People live online. They share, they shop, they arrange to hook up, they work.

They don't go to pubs or youth clubs. They don't even watch TV together. They watch content that is intended to make them feel bad about themselves and isolate them even further.

It's beyond simplistic to say the answer is to get off social media and get a life. That is their life now.

It really isnt.

All it takes is a bit of, you know, parenting. That sounds like it might be anathema to some folk in here.

And for the parents to do likewise and get off social media

Says a man on a social media platform...

Not really. This is just a fuck site to find casual sex on

Wikipedia: Social media are interactive technologies that facilitate the creation and sharing of information, ideas, interests, and other forms of expression through virtual communities and networks.

Well done, you can quote wikipedia.

You know what i mean...twitter,facebook, instagram etc"

Patronising much? No, I don't know what you mean. Instagram is a photo sharing site (originally) - doesn't matter what people are here for. They will share ideas, interests and opinions. As we do on Fab.

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"This person has just heard it in his/her echo chamber and is now parroting it in here. You know the drill by now

But whatever. I'm out

So if he says reasonable things but other people who you dont like draw other meanings from these things or use them for other purposes, thats his fault then is it?

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"My main learning from this thread is that people really need to get lives and spend less time on social media.

Just ignore people you dont like, and maybe go out for a walk instead of getting yerselves into a lather over some person on twitter or youtube or whatever. Yer all a bit sad if you ask me

As suggested above, get off social media and get a life

That's so easy to say and so disconnected from reality. People live online. They share, they shop, they arrange to hook up, they work.

They don't go to pubs or youth clubs. They don't even watch TV together. They watch content that is intended to make them feel bad about themselves and isolate them even further.

It's beyond simplistic to say the answer is to get off social media and get a life. That is their life now.

It really isnt.

All it takes is a bit of, you know, parenting. That sounds like it might be anathema to some folk in here.

And for the parents to do likewise and get off social media

Says a man on a social media platform...

Not really. This is just a fuck site to find casual sex on

Wikipedia: Social media are interactive technologies that facilitate the creation and sharing of information, ideas, interests, and other forms of expression through virtual communities and networks.

Well done, you can quote wikipedia.

You know what i mean...twitter,facebook, instagram etc

Good for us

As i said, im referring to twitter, Facebook, instagram etc.

Not a fuck site

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Tate isn't the problem in all frankness. He just happens to be a symptom. Focusing on him means the actual issue is ignored.

Would you mind giving more on what you think the actual issue is, perhaps?

The world has changed and will keep doing so. The old order has been replaced and the role of men in society going forward is uncertain. Tate offers certainty to people who don't have it.

I don't see his appeal as any different from trump. They're both an appeal to an idealised masculinity.

If I had to summarise in one word what the problem is I'd say loneliness. The lack of connections is the opportunity that Tate and the masculine right exploit.

Do you not think feeling inadequate as part of the problem? Or feeling not masculine enough?

There are people in the world who can build men's confidence without telling them how to treat women.

If men feel "less masculine" in the modern world, how are women feeling?

This brings us back to a thread we posted probably a year or more ago, asking what indeed we mean by masculine and feminine. The contributions were quite eye opening (and probably the crux of the problem).

One poster who is active on this thread now, who espouses openly misogynistic attitudes across site said, for example, a woman with short hair cannot be feminine, because femininity is long hair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ignoring the derailing, I haven't got to the end of Laura Bates' book (Men who hate women) as it's quite hard going. I find her interviews with young men who've been caught up with the Manosphere one way or another pretty heart-rending. She seems to have huge empathy for them. Does she have any solutions? Does anyone? (I'm going to ignore "get off social media"...)