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Music Theory Question

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

If I am playing the Dorian Scale but I don't flatten the 7th degree of the scale, what is the scale called?

So, it's basically a Major Scale but with a flattened 3rd only.

I tried looking it up but I couldn't find any immediate answers.

Anyone know anything?

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By *uke_silverMan
over a year ago

London

If there's some hidden joke I've missed and it's a case of woosh, then sorry.

If it is serious though, why would you choose fab forums for this lol.

Better website to get this question answered by experts: https://music.stackexchange.com/

In general, the StackExchange group of websites (including StackOverflow for the programmers out there) are an excellent place to get reliable answers by experts.

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

There is definitely a hidden joke in there... if you keep looking you'll get it in the end

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By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

Perhaps it's a gray-scale.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So you're saying other than a semi tone of difference,... You're female?

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol


"So you're saying other than a semi tone of difference,... You're female? "

Exactly that... ladies have a hole-tone

I've only a semi

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If I am playing the Dorian Scale but I don't flatten the 7th degree of the scale, what is the scale called?

So, it's basically a Major Scale but with a flattened 3rd only.

I tried looking it up but I couldn't find any immediate answers.

Anyone know anything?"

So if I've understood your question correctly instead of playing say the C Dorian Mode where traditionally you are playing:

C D Eb F G A Bb C

You are instead playing the B instead of the Bb so in effect you are now playing:

C D Eb F G A B C

I've always know that scale as the Melodic Minor Scale

Hope that helps!

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol


"If I am playing the Dorian Scale but I don't flatten the 7th degree of the scale, what is the scale called?

So, it's basically a Major Scale but with a flattened 3rd only.

I tried looking it up but I couldn't find any immediate answers.

Anyone know anything?

So if I've understood your question correctly instead of playing say the C Dorian Mode where traditionally you are playing:

C D Eb F G A Bb C

You are instead playing the B instead of the Bb so in effect you are now playing:

C D Eb F G A B C

I've always know that scale as the Melodic Minor Scale

Hope that helps! "

Yes!! That's the one!! Brilliant thank you!!

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By *oquars19458Man
over a year ago

sheffield


"If I am playing the Dorian Scale but I don't flatten the 7th degree of the scale, what is the scale called?

So, it's basically a Major Scale but with a flattened 3rd only.

I tried looking it up but I couldn't find any immediate answers.

Anyone know anything?"

G flat, f sharp

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol


"If I am playing the Dorian Scale but I don't flatten the 7th degree of the scale, what is the scale called?

So, it's basically a Major Scale but with a flattened 3rd only.

I tried looking it up but I couldn't find any immediate answers.

Anyone know anything?

G flat, f sharp "

Didn't know we had our very own Mozart right here in the forums

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Mixolydian scale.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"If I am playing the Dorian Scale but I don't flatten the 7th degree of the scale, what is the scale called?

So, it's basically a Major Scale but with a flattened 3rd only.

I tried looking it up but I couldn't find any immediate answers.

Anyone know anything?

So if I've understood your question correctly instead of playing say the C Dorian Mode where traditionally you are playing:

C D Eb F G A Bb C

You are instead playing the B instead of the Bb so in effect you are now playing:

C D Eb F G A B C

I've always know that scale as the Melodic Minor Scale

Hope that helps!

Yes!! That's the one!! Brilliant thank you!!

"

Not quite I'm afraid.

There are three types of minor scales: Harmonic, melodic and natural.

Unlike harmonic and natural, the melodic minor scale is different in the way up to on the way down. On the way down it's a natural minor scale. On the way up it's really a Dorian mode with a sharpened 7th as you described. That's the one you're playing but I'm not sure it has a name. I'd just call it Dorian #7. I suppose you could call it a melodic up scale but that sounds silly.

I've got a couple of music encyclopaedias here. I'll take a look and see if I can find a proper name for it.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"If I am playing the Dorian Scale but I don't flatten the 7th degree of the scale, what is the scale called?

So, it's basically a Major Scale but with a flattened 3rd only.

I tried looking it up but I couldn't find any immediate answers.

Anyone know anything?

So if I've understood your question correctly instead of playing say the C Dorian Mode where traditionally you are playing:

C D Eb F G A Bb C

You are instead playing the B instead of the Bb so in effect you are now playing:

C D Eb F G A B C

I've always know that scale as the Melodic Minor Scale

Hope that helps!

Yes!! That's the one!! Brilliant thank you!!

Not quite I'm afraid.

There are three types of minor scales: Harmonic, melodic and natural.

Unlike harmonic and natural, the melodic minor scale is different in the way up to on the way down. On the way down it's a natural minor scale. On the way up it's really a Dorian mode with a sharpened 7th as you described. That's the one you're playing but I'm not sure it has a name. I'd just call it Dorian #7. I suppose you could call it a melodic up scale but that sounds silly.

I've got a couple of music encyclopaedias here. I'll take a look and see if I can find a proper name for it. "

You could also call it a harmonic minor with a sharpened 6th.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Or call it by it's name ..... Mixolydian scale.

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By *otsossieMan
over a year ago

Chesterfield

Isn’t that what rabbits play?

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By *otsossieMan
over a year ago

Chesterfield

Also, how smart is Granny Crumpets?

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"Or call it by it's name ..... Mixolydian scale."

It's not mixolydian though. That doesn't have a sharpened 7th.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"Also, how smart is Granny Crumpets?"

Apparently ..... not very

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

If you're playing a Dorian scale but you don't flatten the 7th degree, you are essentially playing a Mixolydian scale.

The Dorian scale is characterized by a flat 3rd and a natural 7th compared to the major scale. So, in the key of C, a C Dorian scale would have the notes: C, D, E?, F, G, A, B?, C.

However, if you keep the 7th degree as a natural B instead of flattening it to B?, you get the notes C, D, E?, F, G, A, B, C, which is the C Mixolydian scale.

So, to summarize, not flattening the 7th degree in the Dorian scale turns it into the Mixolydian scale.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

[Removed by poster at 23/08/23 13:06:42]

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"If you're playing a Dorian scale but you don't flatten the 7th degree, you are essentially playing a Mixolydian scale.

The Dorian scale is characterized by a flat 3rd and a natural 7th compared to the major scale. So, in the key of C, a C Dorian scale would have the notes: C, D, E?, F, G, A, B?, C.

However, if you keep the 7th degree as a natural B instead of flattening it to B?, you get the notes C, D, E?, F, G, A, B, C, which is the C Mixolydian scale.

So, to summarize, not flattening the 7th degree in the Dorian scale turns it into the Mixolydian scale."

But Mixolydian has a major 3rd not minor, doesn't it? She's playing a minor third because it's Dorian.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

FROM A JAZZ WEBSITE

The Mixolydian mode is a favorite of blues artists. It's flat-7th scale degree makes the resolution always feel a bit unsettled. Scale ( C Mixolydian): C - D - E - F - G - A - Bb - C.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"FROM A JAZZ WEBSITE

The Mixolydian mode is a favorite of blues artists. It's flat-7th scale degree makes the resolution always feel a bit unsettled. Scale ( C Mixolydian): C - D - E - F - G - A - Bb - C."

Exactly. C-E is a major third. The scale being asked about has a minor third.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"FROM A JAZZ WEBSITE

The Mixolydian mode is a favorite of blues artists. It's flat-7th scale degree makes the resolution always feel a bit unsettled. Scale ( C Mixolydian): C - D - E - F - G - A - Bb - C.

Exactly. C-E is a major third. The scale being asked about has a minor third. "

She's playing (when transposed)

C D Eb F G A B C

That's not Mixolydian.

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity


"FROM A JAZZ WEBSITE

The Mixolydian mode is a favorite of blues artists. It's flat-7th scale degree makes the resolution always feel a bit unsettled. Scale ( C Mixolydian): C - D - E - F - G - A - Bb - C."

I could have told you that

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

You are right

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"You are right "

Not you grumpy - 2 part harmony

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol


"Mixolydian scale."

It's not the Mixolydian scale, that has a flattened 7th

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"FROM A JAZZ WEBSITE

The Mixolydian mode is a favorite of blues artists. It's flat-7th scale degree makes the resolution always feel a bit unsettled. Scale ( C Mixolydian): C - D - E - F - G - A - Bb - C.

I could have told you that "

But you didn't spot the undeliberate error so get back in your box

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"Mixolydian scale.

It's not the Mixolydian scale, that has a flattened 7th "

But you didn't flatten the 7th

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"You are right "

Thank goodness for that. I thought we might have to settle this with a naked mud wrestle.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I'm going for Dorian Beebop

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol


"If I am playing the Dorian Scale but I don't flatten the 7th degree of the scale, what is the scale called?

So, it's basically a Major Scale but with a flattened 3rd only.

I tried looking it up but I couldn't find any immediate answers.

Anyone know anything?

So if I've understood your question correctly instead of playing say the C Dorian Mode where traditionally you are playing:

C D Eb F G A Bb C

You are instead playing the B instead of the Bb so in effect you are now playing:

C D Eb F G A B C

I've always know that scale as the Melodic Minor Scale

Hope that helps!

Yes!! That's the one!! Brilliant thank you!!

Not quite I'm afraid.

There are three types of minor scales: Harmonic, melodic and natural.

Unlike harmonic and natural, the melodic minor scale is different in the way up to on the way down. On the way down it's a natural minor scale. On the way up it's really a Dorian mode with a sharpened 7th as you described. That's the one you're playing but I'm not sure it has a name. I'd just call it Dorian #7. I suppose you could call it a melodic up scale but that sounds silly.

I've got a couple of music encyclopaedias here. I'll take a look and see if I can find a proper name for it. "

Dorian #7 is what I was typing to google, but that didn't much help.

The scale will have a name.

I understand that with the melodic minor you descend in the aeolian scale but I figured there's no harm in descending in the melodic scale

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"I'm going for Dorian Beebop "

No I take that back

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol


"Mixolydian scale.

It's not the Mixolydian scale, that has a flattened 7th

But you didn't flatten the 7th"

Exactly...

Flat 3 and flat 7 is Dorian mode

Flat 7 is mixolydian

the scale I was playing has a flat 3 but no flat 7

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

I found a name for it!

Jazz minor scale

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_minor_scale

Other options are:

Major b3

Harmonic minor #6

Melodic minor up

Dorian #7

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

Maybe it’s the D# Lydian augmented

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham


"Maybe it’s the D# Lydian augmented "

Or could be C melodic minor or B finished whole tone - they are the same according to Genie AI

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"Maybe it’s the D# Lydian augmented

Or could be C melodic minor or B finished whole tone - they are the same according to Genie AI "

It's not really the melodic minor as explained above. As for B finished whole tone, I don't think that works. A whole tone scale only has six notes.

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol


"I found a name for it!

Jazz minor scale

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_minor_scale

Other options are:

Major b3

Harmonic minor #6

Melodic minor up

Dorian #7

"

Hey that's awesome!!

Thank you

Jazz Minor - that's a new one to me.

I'd written this chord progression and it was bugging the crap out of me trying to find the scale that worked with it...

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I think you are right with #7

I read that it remained Dorian but wasn't sure and was still reading -

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"I found a name for it!

Jazz minor scale

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_minor_scale

Other options are:

Major b3

Harmonic minor #6

Melodic minor up

Dorian #7

Hey that's awesome!!

Thank you

Jazz Minor - that's a new one to me.

I'd written this chord progression and it was bugging the crap out of me trying to find the scale that worked with it...

"

My pleasure.

Do you need a single scale to work over a whole chord sequence? That would be unusual.

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol


"I found a name for it!

Jazz minor scale

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_minor_scale

Other options are:

Major b3

Harmonic minor #6

Melodic minor up

Dorian #7

Hey that's awesome!!

Thank you

Jazz Minor - that's a new one to me.

I'd written this chord progression and it was bugging the crap out of me trying to find the scale that worked with it...

My pleasure.

Do you need a single scale to work over a whole chord sequence? That would be unusual. "

Really, I'd have thought it was quite commonplace to write your chords and have a corresponding scale that neatly fits over the top... but I guess this is also dependant on the complexity of the progression...

So far I had been getting away with alternating between CMaj and AbMaj half way through the progression

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"I found a name for it!

Jazz minor scale

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_minor_scale

Other options are:

Major b3

Harmonic minor #6

Melodic minor up

Dorian #7

Hey that's awesome!!

Thank you

Jazz Minor - that's a new one to me.

I'd written this chord progression and it was bugging the crap out of me trying to find the scale that worked with it...

My pleasure.

Do you need a single scale to work over a whole chord sequence? That would be unusual.

Really, I'd have thought it was quite commonplace to write your chords and have a corresponding scale that neatly fits over the top... but I guess this is also dependant on the complexity of the progression...

So far I had been getting away with alternating between CMaj and AbMaj half way through the progression "

The usual thing to do would be to have at least one scale in mind for each chord (unless there are passing chords). The scales may share the same notes but you would think of them as individual scales because you orientate your playing around the chord tones, and they change with each chord of course.

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By *cnugatugMan
over a year ago

Chatham

The mixolydian mode is identical to the major scale but with a flattened 7th step. The mixolydian mode has a funky, somewhat bluesy sound at the top of the scale. The flat 7 in the mixolydian mode makes this scale suitable to play over dominant 7th chords don't know if this helps

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By *hePerkyPumpkin OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

Okay so this is the progression and maybe you can point out if I'm getting it wrong.

Bmin over Emin7

Amin7 over Fmin7

BbMaj7 over Gmin7

CMaj7 over Amin7

I think I've got that right

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By *jfrenchMan
over a year ago

Stockport

Woah! Lots of confusion here! But I can very easily see why the OP and others are unsure as to what scale they are playing.

If the OP is playing (as they seem to confirm to Surjon's reply) the following notes:

C D Eb F G A B C

Then Surjon is correct in that he says it is the Melodic Minor Scale. Which technically answers the OP's question.

However, _partharmony's answer that the Melodic Minor Scale is only named that when it ascends is also correct as it is an "accepted standard" (for want of a better term) in the world of composition that the melodic scale raises the 6th and the 7th on the ascending part of the scale and then lowers the 6th and 7th back in the descending part of the scale.

So the complete Melodic Minor Scale is different when ascending to when it is descending:

Ascending: C D Eb F G A B C

Descending: C Bb Ab G F Eb D C

This is because the Melodic Minor Scale ascending is the same as a major scale except it has a flat third whereas the Melodic Minor descending has the same pitches as a natural minor scale.

Like my music Professor always told me: That's just how it goes. You have to remember that music theory is simply just that: Theory

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