FabSwingers.com forum: Lindsay Sandiford loses legal funding case

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

A grandmother sentenced to death in Bali for drug trafficking has lost a High Court challenge to a UK government refusal to fund a lawyer for an appeal.

I'm not sure if i feel sorry for her or she deserves it, what do the forumites think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dont have any sympathy I'm afraid. She knew the risks involved

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I dont have any sympathy I'm afraid. She knew the risks involved "

Would she have shared the profits, if she got away with it ????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

She knew the risks when she tried to smuggle the drugs into Bali!

So no sympathy from us

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By *U1966Man
over a year ago

Devon

Draw the bullets assemble the firing squad give to her what the drugs she smuggled would of done

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Don't know many of the ins and outs but if she chose to traffic drugs for whatever reason she knew what the risks would be.

People bang on about immigrants abiding by our tiles when they come over here. Same goes for people from this country when they break the law somewhere else.

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

Guilty or not she deserves due process of the law in whatever country she is in,especially as her life is potentially at stake.I think provide her with basic legal representation, but send her the bill after.

If she is guilty sentenced to death and not granted clemency then repayment of it should come from her estate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't feel entirely comfortable hanging her out to dry like that, but then I don't feel comfortable with her suing the UK govt for not helping her more. She carried the drugs through Indonesian customs so she must bear the weight of what she's done.

I don't think the death sentence is fair either though, particularly when another UK national involved in the same case has just received 6 years for his part in it.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"I dont have any sympathy I'm afraid. She knew the risks involved

Would she have shared the profits, if she got away with it ????"

Shared them with who???? Really don't get that statement

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Funny how everyone wanted Gary Glitter hanging when convicted over there.

If you break the law you know the penalty.

I dont support the death penalty at all, but its their country and their laws.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I dont have any sympathy I'm afraid. She knew the risks involved

Would she have shared the profits, if she got away with it ????

Shared them with who???? Really don't get that statement

5 Kilo of cocaine has a huge value.

Would she have sent the profits back to the UK for tax etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny how everyone wanted Gary Glitter hanging when convicted over there.

If you break the law you know the penalty.

I dont support the death penalty at all, but its their country and their laws."

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I don't feel entirely comfortable hanging her out to dry like that, but then I don't feel comfortable with her suing the UK govt for not helping her more. She carried the drugs through Indonesian customs so she must bear the weight of what she's done.

I don't think the death sentence is fair either though, particularly when another UK national involved in the same case has just received 6 years for his part in it. "
Spot on

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I don't think the death sentence is fair either though, particularly when another UK national involved in the same case has just received 6 years for his part in it. "

I agree, i feel theres something imbalanced in this case. i've also read that she has a very low IQ. i agree with everything so far people are saying in this thread but there's something niggling away that something isnt right. i still dunno!

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

I don't think the death sentence is fair either though, particularly when another UK national involved in the same case has just received 6 years for his part in it. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't know a whole lot about the case in all honesty.

If this was her choice then I believe a hefty sentence is enough, death penalty a little harsh as I believe they're using this as an example.

However, if she was more of a drugs mule and forced, then a lot more investigating needs doing and the correct people charged.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The guy that got 6 years and £65,000 fine was carrying less than 100 grams of cocaine, and was charge with possession.

This woman had £1.59 million of the stuff hidden in the lining of her suitcase, and was charge with intent to supply.

Not quite the same offence, but do get your point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think the death sentence is fair either though, particularly when another UK national involved in the same case has just received 6 years for his part in it. "

put it better than I could

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dependson the grounds for an appeal and how competent her previous defence team were. If she has proper grounds for an appeal I wouldn't have a problem with it Solely based on the fact she's a British national facing a death penalty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I dont have any sympathy I'm afraid. She knew the risks involved

Would she have shared the profits, if she got away with it ????

Shared them with who???? Really don't get that statement

5 Kilo of cocaine has a huge value.

Would she have sent the profits back to the UK for tax etc."

Derrr, do you think these drugs actually belonged to her ? She's just the latest dumbass to get talked into of blackmailed into carrying 'em !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You pays your money, you takes your chance.

She chose to fuck about smuggling drugs so now she's facing the consequences

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I dont have any sympathy I'm afraid. She knew the risks involved

Would she have shared the profits, if she got away with it ????

Shared them with who???? Really don't get that statement

5 Kilo of cocaine has a huge value.

Would she have sent the profits back to the UK for tax etc.

Derrr, do you think these drugs actually belonged to her ? She's just the latest dumbass to get talked into of blackmailed into carrying 'em ! "

Sorry, my mistake.

I didnt realise she was doing it for free.

Charity work as a drug mule was never my strong point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I dont have any sympathy I'm afraid. She knew the risks involved

Would she have shared the profits, if she got away with it ????

Shared them with who???? Really don't get that statement

5 Kilo of cocaine has a huge value.

Would she have sent the profits back to the UK for tax etc.

Derrr, do you think these drugs actually belonged to her ? She's just the latest dumbass to get talked into of blackmailed into carrying 'em ! "

Which was done possibly out of greed....At her age she should have known better and now must suffer the consequences.

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By *exySwing3rsCouple
over a year ago

In Your Hearts

Anyone remember the case in 1990 of two young British girls caught trafficking in Thailand.

They were sentenced to 25 years. After due process the then PM, John Major went to Thailand on an official visit and days later the girls got a royal pardon.

Same will probably happen in this case.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

wish they would drop the Grandmother bit and put what she iS A CONVICTED DRUGS RUNNER

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By *innamon!Woman
over a year ago

no matter

Wish we were as strict in this country.

wonder how long our lifers would last in prison if they were reliant on friends and family to feed them.

Watched the news the other night and a couple of guys got 28 years for having huge amounts of drugs on a boat bringing it into UK.How much is that going to cost in taxes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"wish they would drop the Grandmother bit and put what she iS A CONVICTED DRUGS RUNNER "

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

I don't think the death sentence is fair either though, particularly when another UK national involved in the same case has just received 6 years for his part in it. "

agree with most of that, but the fairness of the sentence is a bit of a funny one..

can only trust that the judges based the disparity on some pretty strong evidence with each person..

can also see the Governments point of _iew that it would set a precedent of principle, which could be used by anyone anywhere and not only for crimes with a capital punishment as the sentence..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I dont have any sympathy I'm afraid. She knew the risks involved

Would she have shared the profits, if she got away with it ????

Shared them with who???? Really don't get that statement

5 Kilo of cocaine has a huge value.

Would she have sent the profits back to the UK for tax etc.

Derrr, do you think these drugs actually belonged to her ? She's just the latest dumbass to get talked into of blackmailed into carrying 'em !

Sorry, my mistake.

I didnt realise she was doing it for free.

Charity work as a drug mule was never my strong point."

Did i say she was doing it for free ? You insinuated she was doing it for huge reward ! The reality could be so different, could well be that she did it out of fear for her or her family's safety Are you familiar with the details of the case ? It's alleged she has the IQ of a twelve year old ! Things are seldom black and white ! But if you're in a rush to see "justice" done, get in line behind the rest of the holier-than-thou firing squad.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

What I cannot understand is that these sort of cases occur fairly regularly and get much coverage in the media, about British nationals languishing awaiting trial or serving their sentences or awaiting their fate in foreign jails etc.

So, how is it that people still get suckered, conned, manipulated etc into just carrying someone's luggage.

I have no sympathy for them. The Far East isn't Britain; their legal and penal systems aren't like the cushy equivalents we can expect in Britain.

If you commit a crime abroad, why wail, "I didn't know what I was doing!" Wise up!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know your finding it hard to understand, but its like this.

Woman smuggles 5KG of hard drugs through a far from enlightened countries airport.

The country has HUGE signs that state drug smuggling carries the death penalty.

Woman ignores the signs and still tries it.

Woman gets caught and is convicted of said offence.

Woman must now pay the price of her foolishness.

Now if we dont want this to happen in the future, we need to stop anyone from getting a passport, and going outside the UK.

Failure to obey the law of the country your in, means your subject to their laws and punishments.

Just like they are if they come to the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not sure if i feel sorry for her or she deserves it, what do the forumites think?"

i think if you go to another country and commit a crime you should be prepiared to face the extent of their laws

She didnt commit the crime in England, she knew what she was doing, she knew the laws of that country

I dont suppose had she got into the UK with the drugs she would have cared what happened to the people who bought them

I hate drugs, i dont even like people who smoke joints, i have no sympathy at all for drug pushers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I know your finding it hard to understand, but its like this.

Woman smuggles 5KG of hard drugs through a far from enlightened countries airport.

The country has HUGE signs that state drug smuggling carries the death penalty.

Woman ignores the signs and still tries it.

Woman gets caught and is convicted of said offence.

Woman must now pay the price of her foolishness.

Now if we dont want this to happen in the future, we need to stop anyone from getting a passport, and going outside the UK.

Failure to obey the law of the country your in, means your subject to their laws and punishments.

Just like they are if they come to the UK.

Wow ! Sorted !

Can you give cameron a call to sort out UK plc economic plight, after that you sort out Israel and their Palestinian issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree with the majority it seems. Admittedly i haven't followed the case, but to sentence anyone to death seems extreme, particularly if its just for drug smuggling. How many people murder and rape and get 'life' sentences? I don't agree with the death penalty, but if i did i think you could justify it with 'a life for a life'... not for drug smuggling though. I feel we should be giving her the support any British Citizen should get when abroad. Yeah, she should spend a long time in jail, but a death sentence? What century are we living in? Just because some countries still have it,it doesn't mean that we as a nation should just standby and wash our hands of her, and let her die. I think we've let her down as a British Citizen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So if she was one of their own nationals it would be OK then ?????

Its their country and their laws she has broken.

The death penalty never works, but some countries including the USA still have it and use it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bloody hell. If I ever get pulled before a judge I hope you lot aren't on the jury

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Bloody hell. If I ever get pulled before a judge I hope you lot aren't on the jury

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you dont smuggle drugs abroad, your not going to have any problems with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The death penalty never works"

So the point in having it is??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you dont smuggle drugs abroad, your not going to have any problems with it."

I'm not saying she was right in smuggling drugs into another country. Just that I don't think she deserves the death penalty for doing so... and as a British Citizen I think our government should be fighting her corner and giving her some support.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you dont smuggle drugs abroad, your not going to have any problems with it.

She did wrong and should spend a very long time in jail but dont believe in death penalty only for attacks on children and cold blooded murder

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By *lasgowfunnMan
over a year ago

paisley

No one knows y she done or what made her do it she says her kids were taken and threatend and I would do anything to protect my kids and I know what jail time is like and would go back to make sure there safe so we should not judge until she proven guilty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very few people take the role of drugs mule by free choice. Usually threats are made to harm family members as in this case.

What is particularly unusual about this case is that the Indonesian prosecutor did not ask for the death penalty to be imposed. The judge chose to 'upgrade' the penalty to the maximum permissible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No one knows y she done or what made her do it she says her kids were taken and threatend and I would do anything to protect my kids and I know what jail time is like and would go back to make sure there safe so we should not judge until she proven guilty "

Sadly she is guilty of the crime, its the potential mitigating circumstances, that may afford some leniency !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I disagree with the majority it seems. Admittedly i haven't followed the case, but to sentence anyone to death seems extreme, particularly if its just for drug smuggling. How many people murder and rape and get 'life' sentences? I don't agree with the death penalty, but if i did i think you could justify it with 'a life for a life'... not for drug smuggling though. I feel we should be giving her the support any British Citizen should get when abroad. Yeah, she should spend a long time in jail, but a death sentence? What century are we living in? Just because some countries still have it,it doesn't mean that we as a nation should just standby and wash our hands of her, and let her die. I think we've let her down as a British Citizen."

How can you say "just" for drug smuggling...

People (addicts) rape, murder just to get their fix and proberly much worse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People who grow, smuggle and sell drugs make me sick. I don't agree with the death penalty but hope anyone involved rots in hell for the rest of their lives and I would imagine an Indonesian jail would be an equivalent of hell.

They don't give a shit about the people who end up hooked and the misery it causes their friends and family.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can you say "just" for drug smuggling...

People (addicts) rape, murder just to get their fix and proberly much worse.

some people rape and murder just for fun. its not confined to drug users. In fact the majority of drug users in this country are otherwise law abiding citizens. you can't blame drug mules for everything

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and whats worse than rape or murder?

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

I don't think the death sentence is fair either though, particularly when another UK national involved in the same case has just received 6 years for his part in it. "
Did she kill anyone? Maybe instant death to drug traffickers should be considered.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

she won't be executed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"and whats worse than rape or murder?"

City winning the fucking title last year! GRRRRR

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"she won't be executed

see if you had just said that at the start of the thread..

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"she won't be executed

see if you had just said that at the start of the thread..

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

"People who grow, smuggle and sell drugs make me sick. I don't agree with the death penalty but hope anyone involved rots in hell for the rest of their lives and I would imagine an Indonesian jail would be an equivalent of hell.

They don't give a shit about the people who end up hooked and the misery it causes their friends and family. "
Are you talking about British American Tobacco? They were responsible for more drug related deaths in the UK last year than all Class A drugs put together? Just so happens that 4 cabinet ministers are on the board of that company, Should they be awaiting execution?

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

They don't give a shit about the people who end up hooked and the misery it causes their friends and family. Are you talking about British American Tobacco? They were responsible for more drug related deaths in the UK last year than all Class A drugs put together? Just so happens that 4 cabinet ministers are on the board of that company, Should they be awaiting execution?"
And I didnt know the rot in hell poster was a smoker!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tobacco is legal. I'm talking about illegal drugs, mostly Class A. I don't want anybody executed, I'm against the death penalty, but life in jail would be suitable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can you say "just" for drug smuggling...

People (addicts) rape, murder just to get their fix and proberly much worse.

Yep, all drug addicts murder, rape and pillage, and worse ! (Whatever that could be) Here's a few more for the record, all black guys have foot long cocks, all scots are tight, all the irish are thick, ffs. With that smallminded, ill conceived ideology, i'll now bow out

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By *punkloverCouple
over a year ago

hatfield

well if had not of smuggled drugs then she would not be where she is, too many people over-complicate this issue. What is that old saying ? Can't do the time don't do the crime. I'm sure anyone knows what happens with smuggling drugs into countries like that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why do people always have to introduce completely irrelevant points to a debate to back up some warped idea they have?

B.A.T. is a legal entity operating a legal business and has no dealings in illicit Class A drugs. How the fuck can you compare a reputable company with an illegal Class A drug pusher?

What a completely pointless and misinformed argument.

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

Why do people always have to introduce completely irrelevant points to a debate to back up some warped idea they have?

B.A.T. is a legal entity operating a legal business and has no dealings in illicit Class A drugs. How the fuck can you compare a reputable company with an illegal Class A drug pusher?

What a completely pointless and misinformed argument."
BAT sells an addictive drug which while bing dispensed is a medium for carcigens to be induced. Last year there were 46,000 deaths from Lung Cancer........pointless i think not. You seem to be happy with legalised drugs and it is you with simpleton arguements and Sun reading (if only for the sport) points of _iew that are misinformed!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why do people always have to introduce completely irrelevant points to a debate to back up some warped idea they have?

B.A.T. is a legal entity operating a legal business and has no dealings in illicit Class A drugs. How the fuck can you compare a reputable company with an illegal Class A drug pusher?

What a completely pointless and misinformed argument.

BAT sells an addictive drug which while bing dispensed is a medium for carcigens to be induced. Last year there were 46,000 deaths from Lung Cancer........pointless i think not. You seem to be happy with legalised drugs and it is you with simpleton arguements and Sun reading (if only for the sport) points of _iew that are misinformed!"

The CEO of BAT isn't on death row in Indonesia though is he.

But I'll humour you.. let's talk drugs shall we... all drugs?

What about the one that caused Thalidomide all those years ago? Shall we execute the scientists who created those drugs and let them loose on the populace?

What about coffee? People have died from too many expressos in a given time frame, shall we execute the boss of Costa Coffee for selling such a dangerous product?

Or are you just a vehement anti-smoker?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They don't give a shit about the people who end up hooked and the misery it causes their friends and family. Are you talking about British American Tobacco? They were responsible for more drug related deaths in the UK last year than all Class A drugs put together? Just so happens that 4 cabinet ministers are on the board of that company, Should they be awaiting execution?And I didnt know the rot in hell poster was a smoker!!"

And I see the pro drugs poster drinks. Shall I start giving stats on alcohol related deaths? Lets just ban all drugs and booze or stick to the debate of those pedalling illegal drugs?

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

They don't give a shit about the people who end up hooked and the misery it causes their friends and family. Are you talking about British American Tobacco? They were responsible for more drug related deaths in the UK last year than all Class A drugs put together? Just so happens that 4 cabinet ministers are on the board of that company, Should they be awaiting execution?And I didnt know the rot in hell poster was a smoker!!

And I see the pro drugs poster drinks. Shall I start giving stats on alcohol related deaths? Lets just ban all drugs and booze or stick to the debate of those pedalling illegal drugs?"
A narcotic is a narcotic whether its legal or not is, frankly irrelvant. Its the damage done by narcotics that is the question. Should Ken Baker be held responsible for selling tobacco to Mr X who has lung cancer which is a proven cuase of that condition? You like to categorise people who break the law but are happy to condone the same action but its legal. It is double standards and a very simplistic _iew of the whole debate. Do you read the Sun per chance? For the sport of course!

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

If one person murders another you have a dead person who didn't choose to be that way. I totally do not support the death penalty but its awarded in some countries if you commit murder.

If someone offers to sell me some cocaine or the like, I have a 'choice', unlike the victim of murder.

So if the death penalty is the ultimate penalty for the ultimate crime against humanity it seems to me they have priority issues in their legal system.

Which probably means its as fucked up and useless as all legal systems in all countries.

In reality, most recreational drugs are no better/worse than alcohol. The main difference being that alcohol is a legal recreational drug in the UK.

So in the event that one day alcohol becomes an illegal drug can we have volunteers to man the firing squad guns for all of the supermarket owners, pubs etc.

All anyone knows about this is what is printed/read in the newspapers, so it must be true... execute the bitch NOW! Then we can all go down the pub and drink some legal mind altering poison

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

Why do people always have to introduce completely irrelevant points to a debate to back up some warped idea they have?

B.A.T. is a legal entity operating a legal business and has no dealings in illicit Class A drugs. How the fuck can you compare a reputable company with an illegal Class A drug pusher?

What a completely pointless and misinformed argument.

The CEO of BAT isn't on death row in Indonesia though is he.

But I'll humour you.. let's talk drugs shall we... all drugs?

What about the one that caused Thalidomide all those years ago? Shall we execute the scientists who created those drugs and let them loose on the populace?

What about coffee? People have died from too many expressos in a given time frame, shall we execute the boss of Costa Coffee for selling such a dangerous product?

Or are you just a vehement anti-smoker?

"
I am humoured if only for the banile and weakness of your arguement. I am pointing out that the said grandmother should not ne executed for her "crime" which no doubt she was forced into by some drug lord.

You need to take your head out of the Sun or from up your arse and stop believing what Mr Murdoch wants to pedal to you and maybe look around the populist _iew and think for yourself and maybe just maybe agree that life is not black and white.

I am a vehement do notsoak in all that a popularist society predals me and not to put people in (condemned) boxes. Sometimes its good to put the Sun down (even the 99% correct sports journalists) and think. I will go to bed humoured. I rather think you will not!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of the 10 most dangerous drugs 8 are illegal or prescription only and 2 are freely available in premises all over the country.can anyone explain to me the logic behind that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

in this country i would agree but we arnt in this country you cant go over seas, deliberately break the law and expect to be tried the same as you would in the UK, what kind of a signal is that sending out...oh go do what you like, we'll save you!!

You say how many rape and kill and just get life, in Bali rape carries the death sentence

I dont see how we have let her down, she went there with the intention of smuggling drugs and got cought, you do the crime you pay the price in co ordance of the country you commit the crime in

1.6 millions pounds of cocaine she had on her, how many people could that have killed, maybe stopping her saves some lifes from poeple who could have bought that stuff, ok they dont have to buy it thats their choise, as was it her to smuggle it

i just have no sympathy at all for drug pushers, and being a granny makes me feel no more sorry for her

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"I am humoured if only for the banile and weakness of your arguement. I am pointing out that the said grandmother should not ne executed for her "crime" which no doubt she was forced into by some drug lord.

You can always tell when someone feels an argument is slipping away from them, they resort to personal attacks!

Illegal drugs transported = Crime

Legal drugs transported = No crime!

Illegal drugs transported into the UK = Prison sentence!

Illegal drugs transported into Indonesia = Death penalty!

Simple really, Tabacco has no place in this argument and I do not see why we as a country should make ourselves seem soft on drugs by supporting this drug runner... How many lives could she have ruined or even ended with 1.5 million pounds worth of evil?

I hope her appeal commutes to a life sentence, but I will not lose any sleep if they don't!

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

"Of the 10 most dangerous drugs 8 are illegal or prescription only and 2 are freely available in premises all over the country.can anyone explain to me the logic behind that"

I can't specifically answer your question but looking at statistics on Wikipedia alcohol is top of the list for the most harmful drug scoring 75%, with the highest 'harmful to others' rating at 45%. Followed by Heroin 55% self-harming, 21% harming others. Cocaine 27% self, 8% others.LSD only scores 8% with nothing for harming others.

So alcohol wins by quite a long way in harming others (family, friends ect.)

LSD only scores 8% with nothing for harming others.

Seems tobacco is for whimps but a much harder drug than LSD.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

sadly we are living in a century where drugs cause the most terrible misery, crime, babies born addicted and early deaths for some users..

chuck in the costs to burgled houseowners, distraught parents of addicts, Police, NHS and all the rest and its the biggest threat to this and many societies that we face..

and next century will only be a continuance and an escalation..

we as a nation shoud respect other soveriegn nations judicial systems tbh, Singapore for instance is doing quite well as an effective constraint on anti social behaviour..

suggesting anything else smacks of collonialism..

she has let herself down, not us as a country letting her down..

she chose her path and must take responsibility for her actions in the country whose laws she ignored..

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

"I am humoured if only for the banile and weakness of your arguement. I am pointing out that the said grandmother should not ne executed for her "crime" which no doubt she was forced into by some drug lord.

You can always tell when someone feels an argument is slipping away from them, they resort to personal attacks!

Illegal drugs transported = Crime

Legal drugs transported = No crime!

Illegal drugs transported into the UK = Prison sentence!

Illegal drugs transported into Indonesia = Death penalty!

I hope her appeal commutes to a life sentence, but I will not lose any sleep if they don't!"
I didnt know it was an arguement! The lady has committed a crime of that there is no doubt and the consequences of her actions would have caused misery to may but the death penalty is barbaric and is proven not to deter (see gun crime statistic in the US)AS I say I was making a comparision between legal narcotics and those deemed illeagle to which somone took umbridge!

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By *obandruthCouple
over a year ago

wolverhampton

do the crime pay the price

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

bought the ticket, took the ride.

It's her own fault in the first place

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

I am not in favour of the death penalty for anything so I do think there should be a formal request from this country to commute the sentence to life in prison. The thing is this woman knew what she was doing in a country that has very strict ideas on drug running. She knew the risks so I cant see why British tax payers should fund her appeal.

She says she was coerced into this because of threats to her family in this country... why did she not warn her family to contact the police and then do the same thing where she is! I don't buy that, I think she saw a chance of easy money and took a very stupid chance. She gambled she lost.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just get fed up with people using the "im british" as a get out of jail card....

Being british doesnt change the facts of this case , regardless of mitigating circumstances

1. Trafficked drugs

2. got caught

3. got sentenced.

People have voiced their opinion, whether someone else agrees with it makes no difference .There is no need to become personal or go on the attack. I may have worded prior posts wrongly but then i joined a swinging site, not mensa or a mastermind reunion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm normally liberal in my political _iews and my human rights _iews, however I have to say that going to a country which has the death penalty with 5kgs of cocaine in your bag is asking for trouble.

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By *kmale421Man
over a year ago

wirral

This was subject to a debate on Radio 5Live yesterday, which as you can imagine got rather heated with arguments similar to those posted in this thread.

Although Bali does have the death sentance for this particular crime it was pointed out several times that even USA doesn't have the death penalty for being a drugs trafficker. The equation being that as she didn't kill anyone, the death sentance was too harsh a penalty as she was a drugs carrier rather than a murderer. It was pointed out that drugs do kill people, the counter argument being that so do guns, but you wouldn't give a death sentance to a gum manufacturer or a compant transporting guns.

The most interesting aspect of the debate though was a guy who called in fairly early in the debate to say that he had set up a Just Giving page in this lady's name in order to allow people who felt strongly that she should appeal, they could donate to help raise the £2500. At the time of writing the fund has had 42 donations and has raised £2105, so it's interesting that despite the enormous publicity this got for a short while on Radio 5Live yesterday, very few people chose to contribute to help her case, although it is very close now to enabling her to have sufficient funds to appeal.

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

I wonder, was the women going to be paid for transporting the drugs?

Only I watched a program the other day about an American women, in arrears with her mortgage (the excuse), and when offered a job by a 'friend' for collecting 1kg cocaine from Peru to USA in exchange for a payment in cash of $10,000 she took the job... and got away with it.

She did two more runs and got caught on the 4th. The second and third trips were 2kg and 3kg respectively.

One would assume that the payment might be $10,000 per kilo? It implies that she made at least $30,000 maybe as much as $60,000 BEFORE she got caught. Would I donate money for her release/legal fees... Not on your Nellie!!! And in the end, she still lost her house because of mortgage arrears!

I personally have to pay for my own mistakes, be they great or small regardless of mitigating circumstances or motivations/errors etc.

Why should this women be an exception? We don't actually know the answer to that because none of us know the real truth of the matter and probably never will.

It seems we might be a bit too quick to make monsters out of the foreign authorities rather than the person who has, for one reason or another blatantly broken a serious law (in ANY country!).

Although I'd still say that a death sentence is barbaric and inhuman.

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"I didnt know it was an arguement! "

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

Or you have your head up your arse!! lol

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

"
In an earlier post the person apparently humouring me said he purchased the Sun. Go figure!

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

Or you have your head up your arse!! lol

Why do people always have to introduce completely irrelevant points to a debate to back up some warped idea they have?

B.A.T. is a legal entity operating a legal business and has no dealings in illicit Class A drugs. How the fuck can you compare a reputable company with an illegal Class A drug pusher?

What a completely pointless and misinformed argument.

As I say he needs to remove his head from up his arse and react to the debate!

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

Or you have your head up your arse!! lol

Why do people always have to introduce completely irrelevant points to a debate to back up some warped idea they have?

B.A.T. is a legal entity operating a legal business and has no dealings in illicit Class A drugs. How the fuck can you compare a reputable company with an illegal Class A drug pusher?

What a completely pointless and misinformed argument.

As I say he needs to remove his head from up his arse and react to the debate!"

OK, so lets go back and see who, on a thread about illegal drugs and those who traffic such drugs, mentioned tobacco companies? Oh, it was you! Totally irrelevant to the thread... I would agree with you that tobacco companies are responsible for millions of deaths, but this is not a debate about them!

It is however, a debate about a woman who decided to risk all for a wedge of money! A woman who didn’t care how much mayhem she caused, how many lives she could have ruined or how many people she could have killed. Now whether that was by omission, lack of knowledge or a just don’t care attitude doesn’t matter.

Wishy will be the first to tell you that we haven’t always seen eye to eye on some subjects. But one thing I will say, he never has had his head up his arse when it comes to posting. But then again, he also doesn’t try and fail miserably to string words together to make him seem more intelligent. He is also not a pompous pratt! Sun reader yes, anybodies fool, NO!

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

I wonder how many of the “hanging brigade” are smokers, yet smuggled back more than their “official” allowance whilst holidaying abroad.

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

Drug traffickers should take the punishment when caught - no sympathy what so ever - why should we bail her out - we wouldn't do it for a 'regular' drug smuggler - what's the difference? Because she's a woman and a bit older? Z

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

Or you have your head up your arse!! lol

Why do people always have to introduce completely irrelevant points to a debate to back up some warped idea they have?

B.A.T. is a legal entity operating a legal business and has no dealings in illicit Class A drugs. How the fuck can you compare a reputable company with an illegal Class A drug pusher?

What a completely pointless and misinformed argument.

As I say he needs to remove his head from up his arse and react to the debate!

"
The point is that to demonise a person is easy and serves no real purpose..........I opened the debate to a wider meaning. Seems that the wider meaning was far to wide!

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

Or you have your head up your arse!! lol

Why do people always have to introduce completely irrelevant points to a debate to back up some warped idea they have?

B.A.T. is a legal entity operating a legal business and has no dealings in illicit Class A drugs. How the fuck can you compare a reputable company with an illegal Class A drug pusher?

What a completely pointless and misinformed argument.

As I say he needs to remove his head from up his arse and react to the debate!

The point is that to demonise a person is easy and serves no real purpose..........I opened the debate to a wider meaning. Seems that the wider meaning was far to wide!"

I see, we're all too thick are we? nice! Z

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

I got called a Mail reader once... that was hurtful and I reported it!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i find it very hard to belive her story im afraid,so no sypathy from me,its a very well known fact regarding the drug trafficking laws of that country,yet you still get one or two a year making headlines!

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

"Guilty or not she deserves due process of the law in whatever country she is in,especially as her life is potentially at stake.I think provide her with basic legal representation, but send her the bill after.

If she is guilty sentenced to death and not granted clemency then repayment of it should come from her estate.

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By *agna Cum LaudeMan
over a year ago

Laudable

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

Or you have your head up your arse!! lol

Why do people always have to introduce completely irrelevant points to a debate to back up some warped idea they have?

B.A.T. is a legal entity operating a legal business and has no dealings in illicit Class A drugs. How the fuck can you compare a reputable company with an illegal Class A drug pusher?

What a completely pointless and misinformed argument.

As I say he needs to remove his head from up his arse and react to the debate!

The point is that to demonise a person is easy and serves no real purpose..........I opened the debate to a wider meaning. Seems that the wider meaning was far to wide!

I see, we're all too thick are we? nice! Z"
Dear Z I truly give up with the forums! Certain people seem to think that anything that challenges a _iew is a personal dig..........the gentlemen in question seems to have a very narrow _iew on most things. I think its time for me to go and read the Sunday Sport as they do have the best sports coverage!!!

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

Or you have your head up your arse!! lol

Why do people always have to introduce completely irrelevant points to a debate to back up some warped idea they have?

B.A.T. is a legal entity operating a legal business and has no dealings in illicit Class A drugs. How the fuck can you compare a reputable company with an illegal Class A drug pusher?

What a completely pointless and misinformed argument.

As I say he needs to remove his head from up his arse and react to the debate!

The point is that to demonise a person is easy and serves no real purpose..........I opened the debate to a wider meaning. Seems that the wider meaning was far to wide!

I see, we're all too thick are we? nice! ZDear Z I truly give up with the forums! Certain people seem to think that anything that challenges a _iew is a personal dig..........the gentlemen in question seems to have a very narrow _iew on most things. I think its time for me to go and read the Sunday Sport as they do have the best sports coverage!!!"

Bye, Z

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

I'm not really sure how opening up the thread to discuss something that has no relevance on the original question is useful.

My take on the OP is that every time someone gets caught smuggling drugs into one of these countries they say they were coerced into it. Obviously they aren't gonna hold their hands up to it. She may well of been forced but its going to be difficult to prove. But I do agree that if found guilty they should face the punishment set by the country who's laws they have broken. And having seen some of those prisons on TV I'd rather be dead than spend years sitting in one of those!!

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"The point is that to demonise a person is easy and serves no real purpose..........I opened the debate to a wider meaning. Seems that the wider meaning was far to wide!"

So again, lets look back to see who "demonised" people! Oh, that would be you again with your comments about sun readers and heads up arses! As I see it, no one apart from you has demonised anyone...

"Dear Z I truly give up with the forums! Certain people seem to think that anything that challenges a _iew is a personal dig..........the gentlemen in question seems to have a very narrow _iew on most things. I think its time for me to go and read the Sunday Sport as they do have the best sports coverage!!!"

There you go again, patronising people! It is not stating an opposing _iew that people see as a personal dig, it is telling them that they are narrow minded and of course telling them to take their head out of their arse! (seen that before?)

Seems to me that you think you can be right on everything.. The post was about ILLEGAL drugs and trying to smuggle them into a country whose law can give the death penalty to anyone caught! It was not about legally obtainable products which may be drugs or else you would have to include Asprin, Paracetamol and the like, which also kill!

My last post on this one, knock yaself out with a reply..

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By *uck_us_hardCouple
over a year ago

N.E Lincolnshire

"I dont have any sympathy I'm afraid. She knew the risks involved

Would she have shared the profits, if she got away with it ????

Shared them with who???? Really don't get that statement

5 Kilo of cocaine has a huge value.

Would she have sent the profits back to the UK for tax etc.

Derrr, do you think these drugs actually belonged to her ? She's just the latest dumbass to get talked into of blackmailed into carrying 'em !

Sorry, my mistake.

I didnt realise she was doing it for free.

Charity work as a drug mule was never my strong point.

I also thought I'd heard this, she has MH issues and was forced/told to do it! There is always two sides!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No sympathy from me she deserves what she gets so should all drug dealers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You should give the Sport a miss and read a proper paper - like wot I do. The Sun's got great sports coverage y'know. Have I mentioned that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wishy will be the first to tell you that we haven’t always seen eye to eye on some subjects. But one thing I will say, he never has had his head up his arse when it comes to posting. But then again, he also doesn’t try and fail miserably to string words together to make him seem more intelligent. He is also not a pompous pratt! Sun reader yes, anybodies fool, NO!

Hey, if wasn't a Jaffa I'd ask you to have my babies! I fookin love you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A grandmother sentenced to death in Bali for drug trafficking has lost a High Court challenge to a UK government refusal to fund a lawyer for an appeal.

I'm not sure if i feel sorry for her or she deserves it, what do the forumites think?"

Ask the families that have lots children to drugs!! She knew the risk and the money she would of got from it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I didnt know it was an arguement!

Then why the abuse of someone just because they had opposing _iews?

Apparently your a Sun reader if you oppose a point of _iew

Or you're a Daily Mail reader. (I have to confess that Siren reads it but I keep telling her to stop torturing herself, but she backs it up by reading The Guardian too - all sounds like dutch to me, and they don't have boobs)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You should give the Sport a miss and read a proper paper - like wot I do. The Sun's got great sports coverage y'know. Have I mentioned that?

WTF, is this about drug trafficking or Wishy?? lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You should give the Sport a miss and read a proper paper - like wot I do. The Sun's got great sports coverage y'know. Have I mentioned that?

WTF, is this about drug trafficking or Wishy?? lol"

Hey, I'm popular y'know. I've even got one or two friends!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seriously it shocks me how many people condemn certain drugs because they are illegal and yet seem to be fine with alcohol and tobacco which are the bigger killers its just supporting a taxable/legal death.

I think that the reasons the woman decided to do this are important no-one wakes up and decides to be a drug dealer unfortunaley some people are dealt a shitty hand and they do things that other people deem as bad because they have to put food on the table. I am not trying to say this woman is guilt free just that some things are not always as black and white as they may first seem.

MissD

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think the death sentence is fair either though, particularly when another UK national involved in the same case has just received 6 years for his part in it. "

Yet more proof that the British still have no clue what they are doing. The government need shooting with the drug traffickers

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By *orkieMan
over a year ago

Who knows

She was caught smuggling drugs... fact. Class A`s etc cause addiction...fact, people die from usage...fact, people commit crime to fund habits...fact. Any other innumerable things can cause death, tobacco, drink, guns, fast cars, extreme sports... those are not the issue. The issue is the fact she tried to smuggle drugs into a country with a stricter sense of justice than the UK with its holiday camp prisons and young offenders institutes.

As far as I am concerned "She do the crime, she do the time" oh dear , does the time end in a death sentence, well wake up and smell the coffee, so can drug addiction.

Who would fund her legal fees?? you and me the hard working British Joe Public. Hands up all those that want to see their taxes pay for her defence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

seems people think focusing on the crime committed is the only issue?

and sorry to anyone that disagrees, but the drugs market is thriving on it being blackmarket...and anyone who beleives that the drug lords etc arent in league with big corporate/government agencies needs to wake up- they dont actually hide in magically disapearing islands or in thunderbirds style

drugs good or bad, if legalized would mean the end to billions of tax free economy...that are reaped by these affiliates

the main reasons why drugs cause so much pain, ill health...is the way they are distributed and in what manner they are given.

there is corruption everywhere even in the most idealistic of countries- even those dictated to by strict penalties..

as a forum subject, its fair enough to stick to the central issue...but when u have so many things connected to such big issues its easy to cloud over facts in the sensationalized media

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