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In, Out, Shake it all about... EU referendum in the next parliament.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Dave has promised us one if he wins the next election.

Even Jacques Delors, believes we should renegotiate the terms we are tied to.

I am all up for trade rules, but in general the Brussels gravy train can go and Fuck themselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Couldn't agree more , do you think we could overturn some of the stupid rules we now abide by thanks to Brussels if we choose to leave ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dave has promised us one if he wins the next election.

Even Jacques Delors, believes we should renegotiate the terms we are tied to.

I am all up for trade rules, but in general the Brussels gravy train can go and Fuck themselves."

No fear there then, even the Tory press machine are turning against Dave!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thought we were gonna do the oakie coakie... Puts my left hand in..

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Thought we were gonna do the oakie coakie... Puts my left hand in.. "

Oi.... no fisting on this thread please

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thought we were gonna do the oakie coakie... Puts my left hand in..

Oi.... no fisting on this thread please "

Couldnt get a hair in those ben, let alone a fist, but im game, gors and gets the lube..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can't use a referendum to decide on an issue as complex as being in the EU or not.

The right will galvanize the idiot vote with rhetoric about the EU and immigration being the cause of all our ills, and how they dictate the shape of our bananas etc. Show an idiotic romanticised version of Great Britain with the white cliffs of Dover, winning the world cup in 66' and all that bollocks which the ignorant moron media fed idiots will lap up (who unfortunately are a large portion of the country), and before you know it we're fucked into a cocked hat.

If the right wing are good at one thing, it's selling people on who is to blame for their troubles. And people are far too easily led, particularly in times of strife.

Another waypoint in the long march towards the breakdown of our society through economic collapse, yay!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said. Leaving the EU would be a stupid short sighted move which would see what's left of our industry disappear.

Remember, it is always easiest to blame all your problems on a third party.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Saving a net contribution of £8bn a year will help the economy no end. When we joined the eu we started paying for a whole new tier of govt which added nothing to our quality of life.

I asked this question years ago on a pro European mailing list, and no-one could answer, so let's try again.

How has being in the eu improved the life of the average citizen in the UK?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dave has promised us one if he wins the next election.

Even Jacques Delors, believes we should renegotiate the terms we are tied to.

I am all up for trade rules, but in general the Brussels gravy train can go and Fuck themselves."

Which is basically what he said would happen were we to have a referendum now. The way the British people feel about Europe if the govt gave us a say tomorrow we would leave the EU altogether, but that's not what I think would be in our best interests. If I read what he said correctly it appears he wants an enhanced common market but without fiscal or monetary union. I'd support that as I see no reason to ditch Sterling and hop into bed with the Euro when it is clear that Brussels is as corrupt as it is inept. Maybe one day we'll adopt the Euro over here but I suspect it won't be for a long time to come.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question. "

Why can you not ask the majority of people in a nation a complex political question ?

Should the question only be asked to those who don't conform to the norm ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question.

Why can you not ask the majority of people in a nation a complex political question ?

Should the question only be asked to those who don't conform to the norm ?

"

Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not so much that they are idiots , it's the fact that we are judging that our perception of such said idiots should deny them the opportunity to vote . Some democracy that would be - you watch the soaps and reality tv so you are too stupid to vote ?????

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

It's a master stroke by dave, leave it up to the British folk to decide.... And when the short sighted say yes and it goes wrong, shunt the blame!

It's bordering on genius....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a master stroke by dave, leave it up to the British folk to decide.... And when the short sighted say yes and it goes wrong, shunt the blame!

It's bordering on genius.... "

To be fair to him, his delaying tactic was pure class... we can't vote in or out if we don't know what we'll be voting in or out of.

Allowing five years for Euroland to sort itself out before we decide to go in or not made a lot of sense to me, and he ruled out adopting the Euro for the next five years at least.

Come election time in 2015 he'll have this ace up his sleeve too, he's promised us a referendum twice now and if he doesn't deliver it he's finished, he knows that, but Labour won't be able to hijack a referendum and claim it as their own idea as Dave has already secured bragging rights over it. Smart speech.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question. "

I don't watch any of the above, so can I answer on behalf of those of us with more than one brain cell left...?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Saving a net contribution of £8bn a year will help the economy no end. When we joined the eu we started paying for a whole new tier of govt which added nothing to our quality of life.

I asked this question years ago on a pro European mailing list, and no-one could answer, so let's try again.

How has being in the eu improved the life of the average citizen in the UK? "

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By *i-shoptonMan
over a year ago

bishopton

Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

-----------

Totally agree with the above post

- voters should be required to pass a fairly rudimentary test before being allowed to vote , otherwise, if you don't at least basically understand the issues then you have no worthwhile opinion- or right to vote. Simples.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"""Allowing five years for Euroland to sort itself out before we decide to go in or not made a lot of sense to me, and he ruled out adopting the Euro for the next five years at least.""

"

Wishy, sweetie, to the best of my recollection, the 'Eeeeeeuw' began with the Treaty of Rome in....... 1957, bringing the 'Eeeeeeeuw' into being on 1st Jan 1958.

That means they have had 55 years to 'sort themselves out.

You REALLY expect them to do it in five years......???

I don't....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

-----------

Totally agree with the above post

- voters should be required to pass a fairly rudimentary test before being allowed to vote , otherwise, if you don't at least basically understand the issues then you have no worthwhile opinion- or right to vote. Simples."

I would go further - I would make such a test mandatory on ALL members of the population, and you only get to vote IF you pass.... Simple questions, such as 'Who is the Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer' (Clue: another name for bollocks).

Bet you'd still get wrong answers...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"""Allowing five years for Euroland to sort itself out before we decide to go in or not made a lot of sense to me, and he ruled out adopting the Euro for the next five years at least.""

Wishy, sweetie, to the best of my recollection, the 'Eeeeeeuw' began with the Treaty of Rome in....... 1957, bringing the 'Eeeeeeeuw' into being on 1st Jan 1958.

That means they have had 55 years to 'sort themselves out.

You REALLY expect them to do it in five years......???

I don't....

"

No, actually, I don't, because at the heart of Europe are corrupt Europeans in it for whatever they can get out of it. It's rotten to it's core.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"""Allowing five years for Euroland to sort itself out before we decide to go in or not made a lot of sense to me, and he ruled out adopting the Euro for the next five years at least.""

Wishy, sweetie, to the best of my recollection, the 'Eeeeeeuw' began with the Treaty of Rome in....... 1957, bringing the 'Eeeeeeeuw' into being on 1st Jan 1958.

That means they have had 55 years to 'sort themselves out.

You REALLY expect them to do it in five years......???

I don't....

No, actually, I don't, because at the heart of Europe are corrupt Europeans in it for whatever they can get out of it. It's rotten to it's core."

... which is my main reason for my position of either: get out of it, OR get well and truly in it and sort the bastards out!

Our problem in this 'country' (Ha!) is that we can't make our flippin minds up what we want or which camp to be in. Are we in with the Yanks (Gawd help us!), in with the Commonwealth (for those who still think we own India, or mourn it's loss) or are we in the Eeeeeuw???

I just wish those who think they run the country would make THEIR bleedin' minds up! How the hell can they expect us to do so when they can't..????

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question.

Why can you not ask the majority of people in a nation a complex political question ?

Should the question only be asked to those who don't conform to the norm ?

Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote."

Wishy I hate to break this to you, but there are people who would consider your views idiotic.

I suspect if there was a referendum to keep the Royal family you might quite like a lot of the 'idiots' to vote in favour.

Unfortunately we can't pick and choose..it's called democracy.

ps as it happens I don't find your views idiotic..well some anyway..lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question.

Why can you not ask the majority of people in a nation a complex political question ?

Should the question only be asked to those who don't conform to the norm ?

Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

Wishy I hate to break this to you, but there are people who would consider your views idiotic.

I suspect if there was a referendum to keep the Royal family you might quite like a lot of the 'idiots' to vote in favour.

Unfortunately we can't pick and choose..it's called democracy.

ps as it happens I don't find your views idiotic..well some anyway..lol"

The comment about idiots with a vote is more exasperation that some people have absolutely no idea what they're voting for. Thankfully the large majority of that demographic rarely turns out to vote anyway, so it's a moot point really lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you don't have a basic grasp of the issues on both sides through ignorance orhow can you make an informed choice?

A lot of people in this country still vote at elections for the party that their parents voted for, because that's what they were taught and raised and never thought any further than that.

There are people who break free from that thinking and vote the same way anyway, but at least they know the why of it. Sadly they are in the minority.

I'm all for reform of the EU and renegotiation of our membership. Particularly the rebate and CAP. Also the sorting out of corruption, reducing the numbers of MEP's through having larger constituencies and a few other things.

But I think a vote on membership will be a disaster, and I think a foregone conclusion unfortunately.

A bit of a political masterstroke by DC though. Should secure his future.

I'm screwed, I'm a lib dem. I have no party to vote for.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question.

Why can you not ask the majority of people in a nation a complex political question ?

Should the question only be asked to those who don't conform to the norm ?

Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

Wishy I hate to break this to you, but there are people who would consider your views idiotic.

I suspect if there was a referendum to keep the Royal family you might quite like a lot of the 'idiots' to vote in favour.

Unfortunately we can't pick and choose..it's called democracy.

ps as it happens I don't find your views idiotic..well some anyway..lol

The comment about idiots with a vote is more exasperation that some people have absolutely no idea what they're voting for. Thankfully the large majority of that demographic rarely turns out to vote anyway, so it's a moot point really lol "

Fair enough!...impressed by your spelling moot correctly...so many say mute!...idiots..lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A bit of a political masterstroke by DC though. Should secure his future.

I'm screwed, I'm a lib dem. I have no party to vote for. "

Both those statements are prophetically very accurate, I think.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question.

Why can you not ask the majority of people in a nation a complex political question ?

Should the question only be asked to those who don't conform to the norm ?

Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

Wishy I hate to break this to you, but there are people who would consider your views idiotic.

I suspect if there was a referendum to keep the Royal family you might quite like a lot of the 'idiots' to vote in favour.

Unfortunately we can't pick and choose..it's called democracy.

ps as it happens I don't find your views idiotic..well some anyway..lol

The comment about idiots with a vote is more exasperation that some people have absolutely no idea what they're voting for. Thankfully the large majority of that demographic rarely turns out to vote anyway, so it's a moot point really lol

Fair enough!...impressed by your spelling moot correctly...so many say mute!...idiots..lol"

Spelling was always one of my strongest points at school. If I make a typo on here it's not because because I can't spell, it's because I can't type lol

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By *uckoo clockCouple
over a year ago

Merseyside

That has been the problem with our political class of all persuasion in the past. In their view you can't actually let the electorate decide ' a complex political question'.

But that is complete arrogance and elitist on their part and it may seem inconvenient to some but what's it called again. . Oh yes democracy

The electorate have enough wits about them to realise that the whole of Brussels and it's empire is corrupt to the very heart of it

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

I asked this question years ago on a pro European mailing list, and no-one could answer, so let's try again.

How has being in the eu improved the life of the average citizen in the UK? "

really... wow!!!

you know that thing called the european bill of human rights.... hello!!!

the maximum working week.......and being able to say no to doing extra hours if pressured!

the enviromental protections.....

the european "regional" fund of which the uk has actually been a net beneficary... the north east, south wales, scotland and parts of the north west

I can go on if you want..... people weren't complaning about the EU when builders were going out to germany on a regular basis earning a ton on money....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"the maximum working week.......and being able to say no to doing extra hours if pressured!"

The Working Time Directive is a farce. The last company I worked for 'asked' all employees to sign a form that negated the WTD, and if you _xpressed the opinion that you didn't want to sign it it was made clear that your future with the company was going to be short lived. This govt are set to repeal the WTD and consign it to the bin, where it should have been tossed when it was first proposed.

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

[Removed by poster at 23/01/13 10:25:59]

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

oh i see referendum when the torys win the next election. So guess its not going to happen then. Meanwhile why we discuss the EU and referendums and harry and the nhs and blah blah blah, the banks are still quietly stealing our money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At a time of global recession where many national economies find themselves imposing austerity measures. A country like ours that relies on the exports and imports of good and services has a better chance of early recovery going it alone.

The simple economic fact that supply and demand will always trump the blanket practice of multinational compulsory regulation and price structuring, where restrictive adherence to common policy originally designed to aid weaker members states now undermines the recovery of nations who could benifit their own recovery from a programme of dynamic free enterprise.

Otherwise we’d all buy the overpriced organic eggs that appeal to our sensibilities of fair-trade.

Wouldn’t we eh!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"oh i see referendum when the torys win the next election. So guess its not going to happen then. Meanwhile why we discuss the EU and referendums and harry and the nhs and blah blah blah, the banks are still quietly stealing our money."

You really don't understand politics at all do you?

pssst.. the banks have been regulated. The High St aspect of their businesses has been separated from their investment arms. They can't 'steal' our money again.

As for 'when the Tories win the next election', I'm glad to see you do have a bit of savvy about you as most anti-Tories would have said 'if'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"At a time of global recession where many national economies find themselves imposing austerity measures. A country like ours that relies on the exports and imports of good and services has a better chance of early recovery going it alone.

The simple economic fact that supply and demand will always trump the blanket practice of multinational compulsory regulation and price structuring, where restrictive adherence to common policy originally designed to aid weaker members states now undermines the recovery of nations who could benifit their own recovery from a programme of dynamic free enterprise.

Otherwise we’d all buy the overpriced organic eggs that appeal to our sensibilities of fair-trade.

Wouldn’t we eh! "

Have you been at the Alphabetti Spaghetti again?

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley

Genius by Cameron, however, long overdue. The cumbersome Europolitic and all it's largess does need reviewing and sorting out. It is all about growth and prosperity in a global market. This should not be done without careful consideration to sovereignty and integration. We have integrated too many new member states without a stategy, throwing monies at a problem, without getting to the root cause is not the answer. The Greek economy is a classic case in point: hamstring their economy, effectively shrinking it, instead of investing, means it becomes ever more deendent on handouts. Sit around the table with an agenda of how they can come out of their present problems. But no, leave them, one arm tied, to get on with it! Doesn't make sense. Welfare? The disparity between the UK and other parts of Europe.

I find it deeply insulting that in a democracy, we are considered to be inferior to the politicians in making a considered judgement on how we spend our tax pounds.

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By *uriouskinky2Couple
over a year ago

wrexham

Saving £8,000,000,000 a year and being able to negotiate strongly with a economic community which we import more from than export to. What's not to like? I don't vote in elections but I'd certainly consider voting to opt out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Saving a net contribution of £8bn a year will help the economy no end. When we joined the eu we started paying for a whole new tier of govt which added nothing to our quality of life.

I asked this question years ago on a pro European mailing list, and no-one could answer, so let's try again.

How has being in the eu improved the life of the average citizen in the UK? "
each and every UK citizen benefits every single day of our lives. 65% of this country's trade is conducted with Europe-all of that 65% not subject to taxes & red tape etc. Here's a question for you-how much £ do you think that 65% is worth to the UK economy? A little clue, it's considerably more than £8 billion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Otherwise we’d all buy the overpriced organic eggs that appeal to our sensibilities of fair-trade.

Wouldn’t we eh!

Have you been at the Alphabetti Spaghetti again? "

Oo’er Wishy,,,,, see what you’ve done !,

Now I gonna have to have spaghetti on toast for my mid morning snack….

It would have been-beans,,, but now its gonna be spaghetti, but not that foreign spaghetti from Italy….!. Oh-no...!!!

I get my Sapghetti from Lidl

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By *uriouskinky2Couple
over a year ago

wrexham


"Saving a net contribution of £8bn a year will help the economy no end. When we joined the eu we started paying for a whole new tier of govt which added nothing to our quality of life.

I asked this question years ago on a pro European mailing list, and no-one could answer, so let's try again.

How has being in the eu improved the life of the average citizen in the UK? each and every UK citizen benefits every single day of our lives. 65% of this country's trade is conducted with Europe-all of that 65% not subject to taxes & red tape etc. Here's a question for you-how much £ do you think that 65% is worth to the UK economy? A little clue, it's considerably more than £8 billion. "

Put simply, we spend more with Europe than Europe spends with us. Are you trying to say that the EU would refuse to trade with us?

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london


"oh i see referendum when the torys win the next election. So guess its not going to happen then. Meanwhile why we discuss the EU and referendums and harry and the nhs and blah blah blah, the banks are still quietly stealing our money.

You really don't understand politics at all do you?

pssst.. the banks have been regulated. The High St aspect of their businesses has been separated from their investment arms. They can't 'steal' our money again.

As for 'when the Tories win the next election', I'm glad to see you do have a bit of savvy about you as most anti-Tories would have said 'if'. "

Listen m8 no offense but i blocked you months ago, i even told you i had. i do not like you, or your views. so stick to the forum rules please and dont respond to my posts. Thank you .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"oh i see referendum when the torys win the next election. So guess its not going to happen then. Meanwhile why we discuss the EU and referendums and harry and the nhs and blah blah blah, the banks are still quietly stealing our money.

You really don't understand politics at all do you?

pssst.. the banks have been regulated. The High St aspect of their businesses has been separated from their investment arms. They can't 'steal' our money again.

As for 'when the Tories win the next election', I'm glad to see you do have a bit of savvy about you as most anti-Tories would have said 'if'.

Listen m8 no offense but i blocked you months ago, i even told you i had. i do not like you, or your views. so stick to the forum rules please and dont respond to my posts. Thank you ."

The last time I looked the forums were open to all. If you post something I disagree with I'll reply. If you don't like it, tough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"the maximum working week.......and being able to say no to doing extra hours if pressured!

The Working Time Directive is a farce. The last company I worked for 'asked' all employees to sign a form that negated the WTD, and if you _xpressed the opinion that you didn't want to sign it it was made clear that your future with the company was going to be short lived. This govt are set to repeal the WTD and consign it to the bin, where it should have been tossed when it was first proposed."
Never heard so much bollocks in all my life. The wtd is going nowhere, it is illegal to 'negate' the wtd, you should have grown a pair taken a copy of the signed form to the nearest solicitor. There will always be companies who deem themselves to be above the law no matter what said law is. Jeeez what rubbish are you going to type next? The minimum wage is going to be scrapped?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Otherwise we’d all buy the overpriced organic eggs that appeal to our sensibilities of fair-trade.

Wouldn’t we eh!

Have you been at the Alphabetti Spaghetti again?

Oo’er Wishy,,,,, see what you’ve done !,

Now I gonna have to have spaghetti on toast for my mid morning snack….

It would have been-beans,,, but now its gonna be spaghetti, but not that foreign spaghetti from Italy….!. Oh-no...!!!

I get my Sapghetti from Lidl "

I haven't had spaghetti on toast for fookin years! Beans on toast, yes, loads of times only last week in fact.

The vital question is: do you brown sauce them, or murder it with ketchup?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Otherwise we’d all buy the overpriced organic eggs that appeal to our sensibilities of fair-trade.

Wouldn’t we eh!

Have you been at the Alphabetti Spaghetti again?

Oo’er Wishy,,,,, see what you’ve done !,

Now I gonna have to have spaghetti on toast for my mid morning snack….

It would have been-beans,,, but now its gonna be spaghetti, but not that foreign spaghetti from Italy….!. Oh-no...!!!

I get my Sapghetti from Lidl

I haven't had spaghetti on toast for fookin years! Beans on toast, yes, loads of times only last week in fact.

The vital question is: do you brown sauce them, or murder it with ketchup?"

ketchup

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"the maximum working week.......and being able to say no to doing extra hours if pressured!

The Working Time Directive is a farce. The last company I worked for 'asked' all employees to sign a form that negated the WTD, and if you _xpressed the opinion that you didn't want to sign it it was made clear that your future with the company was going to be short lived. This govt are set to repeal the WTD and consign it to the bin, where it should have been tossed when it was first proposed.

Never heard so much bollocks in all my life. The wtd is going nowhere, it is illegal to 'negate' the wtd, you should have grown a pair taken a copy of the signed form to the nearest solicitor. There will always be companies who deem themselves to be above the law no matter what said law is. Jeeez what rubbish are you going to type next? The minimum wage is going to be scrapped? "

Did you work for the company I worked for? No! Don't tell me what I experienced first hand was a figment of my imagination.

EU legislation is one thing, putting into practice and enforcing it is entirely different. I did end up taking the same company to a tribunal for unfair dismissal because I stood and said 'No' when they wanted me to say 'Yes sir, three bags full sir,' and lost the case because it didn't set a precendent. It is notoriously difficult to win a tribunal against a company for that very reason, and company directors (and their legal teams) know this. So don't tell me the WTD is enforced religiously because it isn't!

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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago

Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria


"Otherwise we’d all buy the overpriced organic eggs that appeal to our sensibilities of fair-trade.

Wouldn’t we eh!

Have you been at the Alphabetti Spaghetti again?

Oo’er Wishy,,,,, see what you’ve done !,

Now I gonna have to have spaghetti on toast for my mid morning snack….

It would have been-beans,,, but now its gonna be spaghetti, but not that foreign spaghetti from Italy….!. Oh-no...!!!

I get my Sapghetti from Lidl

I haven't had spaghetti on toast for fookin years! Beans on toast, yes, loads of times only last week in fact.

The vital question is: do you brown sauce them, or murder it with ketchup?"

Bugger...gonna have to nip to the shop for spaghetti now...

The Patrician believed in one man, one vote...he was the man, he had the vote - Terry Pratchett

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"oh i see referendum when the torys win the next election. So guess its not going to happen then. Meanwhile why we discuss the EU and referendums and harry and the nhs and blah blah blah, the banks are still quietly stealing our money.

You really don't understand politics at all do you?

pssst.. the banks have been regulated. The High St aspect of their businesses has been separated from their investment arms. They can't 'steal' our money again.

As for 'when the Tories win the next election', I'm glad to see you do have a bit of savvy about you as most anti-Tories would have said 'if'.

Listen m8 no offense but i blocked you months ago, i even told you i had. i do not like you, or your views. so stick to the forum rules please and dont respond to my posts. Thank you ."

Well look on the bright side mate , at least you get a response !

I ask a simple question and no response

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Saving a net contribution of £8bn a year will help the economy no end. When we joined the eu we started paying for a whole new tier of govt which added nothing to our quality of life.

I asked this question years ago on a pro European mailing list, and no-one could answer, so let's try again.

How has being in the eu improved the life of the average citizen in the UK? each and every UK citizen benefits every single day of our lives. 65% of this country's trade is conducted with Europe-all of that 65% not subject to taxes & red tape etc. Here's a question for you-how much £ do you think that 65% is worth to the UK economy? A little clue, it's considerably more than £8 billion.

Put simply, we spend more with Europe than Europe spends with us. Are you trying to say that the EU would refuse to trade with us?"
Are you really that stupid? We export approx 2% more than import from Europe. The EU is a customs union-so, 2 or more countries who abolish tariffs and quotas to encourage free trade and adopt a common external tariff on imports from non.member countries. Do you really need me to spell out the problems exiting the EU would have for imports and exports of the UK? Not just from Europe but the rest of the world.

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

I am sure 'Dave' made the same commitment before the last election!

Politics its all smoke and mirrors or more plainly speaking 'lies'.

If there is ever an 'in or out' referendum I will vote out. I see very little benefit to the average Jo on the street to being a member of a club that is more corrupt than the Mafia. The accounts of the EU have NEVER been signed off by auditors for a start!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i want out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would have been semi-impressed if Dave had said we would be having a referendum BEFORE the next General Election.

Wasn't going to happen though...

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By *uriouskinky2Couple
over a year ago

wrexham


"Saving a net contribution of £8bn a year will help the economy no end. When we joined the eu we started paying for a whole new tier of govt which added nothing to our quality of life.

I asked this question years ago on a pro European mailing list, and no-one could answer, so let's try again.

How has being in the eu improved the life of the average citizen in the UK? each and every UK citizen benefits every single day of our lives. 65% of this country's trade is conducted with Europe-all of that 65% not subject to taxes & red tape etc. Here's a question for you-how much £ do you think that 65% is worth to the UK economy? A little clue, it's considerably more than £8 billion.

Put simply, we spend more with Europe than Europe spends with us. Are you trying to say that the EU would refuse to trade with us? Are you really that stupid? We export approx 2% more than import from Europe. The EU is a customs union-so, 2 or more countries who abolish tariffs and quotas to encourage free trade and adopt a common external tariff on imports from non.member countries. Do you really need me to spell out the problems exiting the EU would have for imports and exports of the UK? Not just from Europe but the rest of the world."

I'm all for having fair and free trade with Europe. Leaving the EU wouldn't mean an end to it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would have been semi-impressed if Dave had said we would be having a referendum BEFORE the next General Election.

Wasn't going to happen though...

"

I think he knows full well which way a referendum will go and to buy our struggling economy a bit of time he's set five years to get our finances shipshape before we vote 'No'. There's no doubt we'll survive outside of the EU but our economy will nosedive in the immediate aftermath of exiting it as the markets will be riddled with uncertainty for a couple of years until we prove we can cope without the EU.

Whichever way it goes we'll still trade with Europe but we won't be tied to them and voting 'No' will have the added benefit of hauling back all the powers we've given to Brussels and setting our own immigration, taxation, human rights charters etc. We had all them before the EU so there's no reason we can't have them again.

I'd rather we were in Europe than out of it but with the way Europe is at the moment I can't see it being resolved in time for a referendum to return a 'Yes' vote.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

Jeezusss H christ... this really boils my piss!

We've had years to get this sorted, and still people argue over it, one side says one thing... the other side says something different, and all the time they are both wrong!!

NO SAUCE on fekkin spaghetti goddammit! Its already in sauce ffs!

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley


"Saving a net contribution of £8bn a year will help the economy no end. When we joined the eu we started paying for a whole new tier of govt which added nothing to our quality of life.

I asked this question years ago on a pro European mailing list, and no-one could answer, so let's try again.

How has being in the eu improved the life of the average citizen in the UK? each and every UK citizen benefits every single day of our lives. 65% of this country's trade is conducted with Europe-all of that 65% not subject to taxes & red tape etc. Here's a question for you-how much £ do you think that 65% is worth to the UK economy? A little clue, it's considerably more than £8 billion.

Put simply, we spend more with Europe than Europe spends with us. Are you trying to say that the EU would refuse to trade with us? Are you really that stupid? We export approx 2% more than import from Europe. The EU is a customs union-so, 2 or more countries who abolish tariffs and quotas to encourage free trade and adopt a common external tariff on imports from non.member countries. Do you really need me to spell out the problems exiting the EU would have for imports and exports of the UK? Not just from Europe but the rest of the world.

I'm all for having fair and free trade with Europe. Leaving the EU wouldn't mean an end to it."

Eurocracy has to be a level playing field. Does the French car industry receive huge government financial support, yes, because it employs so many people! But against EU competition law. Was the Beef ban lifted. Yes, but many countries refused to acknowledge it and pay the paltry fines, which were far less than the uplift in their domestic beef markets in revenue and employment! It's two fingers to the EU when individual member states put their own agendas first. Will Europe trade with us outside of the EU, absolutely. We are in a global economy. About time we stuck up for our rites. Play fair EU or don't play at all and we should have the rite as citizens to self determine!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jeezusss H christ... this really boils my piss!

We've had years to get this sorted, and still people argue over it, one side says one thing... the other side says something different, and all the time they are both wrong!!

NO SAUCE on fekkin spaghetti goddammit! Its already in sauce ffs! "

Yes, but salt is allowed innit? Ya gotta have salt, or it's just bland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jeezusss H christ... this really boils my piss!

We've had years to get this sorted, and still people argue over it, one side says one thing... the other side says something different, and all the time they are both wrong!!

NO SAUCE on fekkin spaghetti goddammit! Its already in sauce ffs! "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jeezusss H christ... this really boils my piss!

We've had years to get this sorted, and still people argue over it, one side says one thing... the other side says something different, and all the time they are both wrong!!

NO SAUCE on fekkin spaghetti goddammit! Its already in sauce ffs!

Yes, but salt is allowed innit? Ya gotta have salt, or it's just bland. "

Wishy mate,,,,, you can't talk…. Tuh…. you don’t even like Marzipan …..OMG…. how can anyone not like Marzipan…….

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would have been semi-impressed if Dave had said we would be having a referendum BEFORE the next General Election.

Wasn't going to happen though...

I think he knows full well which way a referendum will go and to buy our struggling economy a bit of time he's set five years to get our finances shipshape before we vote 'No'. There's no doubt we'll survive outside of the EU but our economy will nosedive in the immediate aftermath of exiting it as the markets will be riddled with uncertainty for a couple of years until we prove we can cope without the EU.

Whichever way it goes we'll still trade with Europe but we won't be tied to them and voting 'No' will have the added benefit of hauling back all the powers we've given to Brussels and setting our own immigration, taxation, human rights charters etc. We had all them before the EU so there's no reason we can't have them again.

I'd rather we were in Europe than out of it but with the way Europe is at the moment I can't see it being resolved in time for a referendum to return a 'Yes' vote."

Actually, you've hit on a very valid point. If I were the CEO of a multi-national company with a presence in a number of European Countries (and maybe elsewhere too), I would take today's speech as being my starting point for preparing the company for the more-likely-than-not possibility that the UK will leave the EU in 2017. If I were that hypothetical CEO, I would clearly not want my business to be impacted either here or in any other country. You would NOT want to do what Jardine Matheson did in the run up to the hand back of Hong Kong and leave altogether out of a paranoid fear of becoming an overnight commie.

To preserve and maximise business levels, I would be looking at keeping both the European businesses working as part of Europe, and the arm here working as part of a separatist UK.

However, I would IMMEDIATELY be looking for any opportunity where the departure of the UK from EU could provide additional business/profit opportunities for my business.

That, in a nutshell, is what any half decent CEO in a commercial, capitalist organisation will do. They will maximise ANY potential opportunity - they maximised the opportunities when we went in the EU and there is no reason to believe that they would sit back and not try to maximise the opportunities presented by our potential departure.

That's what capitalism does - it evolves to take advantage of the prevailing market circumstances and forces.

It's the Political Class who cannot evolve in the same way - and it is they who stand to lose the most from any departure (in full or half-hearted) this country may make from the Eeeeeeuw...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Put simply, we spend more with Europe than Europe spends with us. Are you trying to say that the EU would refuse to trade with us?"

It means that our exported goods would probably fall in price as the EU could adopt a different trading stance with us, or take their business elsewhere entirely. China probably.

Imported goods would probably become more expensive as red tape increases. Neither of which will be good for our pockets.

And 8 billion we save a year by not being in the EU would barely make a dent in our national debt. Considering we borrowed 16 Bn in December alone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/01/13 11:30:34]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Eurocracy has to be a level playing field. Does the French car industry receive huge government financial support, yes, because it employs so many people! But against EU competition law. Was the Beef ban lifted. Yes, but many countries refused to acknowledge it and pay the paltry fines, which were far less than the uplift in their domestic beef markets in revenue and employment! It's two fingers to the EU when individual member states put their own agendas first. Will Europe trade with us outside of the EU, absolutely. We are in a global economy. About time we stuck up for our rites. Play fair EU or don't play at all and we should have the rite as citizens to self determine!!!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"the maximum working week.......and being able to say no to doing extra hours if pressured!

The Working Time Directive is a farce. The last company I worked for 'asked' all employees to sign a form that negated the WTD, and if you _xpressed the opinion that you didn't want to sign it it was made clear that your future with the company was going to be short lived. This govt are set to repeal the WTD and consign it to the bin, where it should have been tossed when it was first proposed.

Never heard so much bollocks in all my life. The wtd is going nowhere, it is illegal to 'negate' the wtd, you should have grown a pair taken a copy of the signed form to the nearest solicitor. There will always be companies who deem themselves to be above the law no matter what said law is. Jeeez what rubbish are you going to type next? The minimum wage is going to be scrapped?

Did you work for the company I worked for? No! Don't tell me what I experienced first hand was a figment of my imagination.

EU legislation is one thing, putting into practice and enforcing it is entirely different. I did end up taking the same company to a tribunal for unfair dismissal because I stood and said 'No' when they wanted me to say 'Yes sir, three bags full sir,' and lost the case because it didn't set a precendent. It is notoriously difficult to win a tribunal against a company for that very reason, and company directors (and their legal teams) know this. So don't tell me the WTD is enforced religiously because it isn't!"
Can you read? My post did not say anything about the company you worked for or your experiences. It did, however, say you were talking bollocks re abolition of the wtd. Just to add, precedents have already been set with regards to the wtd, so, if you had a signed form from your employer stating the wtd did not apply to you then i am very surprised you lost at tribunal. May i suggest you read some FACTS before posting emotional, off the cuff responses gleened from the Daily Fail

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Actually, you've hit on a very valid point. If I were the CEO of a multi-national company with a presence in a number of European Countries (and maybe elsewhere too), I would take today's speech as being my starting point for preparing the company for the more-likely-than-not possibility that the UK will leave the EU in 2017. If I were that hypothetical CEO, I would clearly not want my business to be impacted either here or in any other country. You would NOT want to do what Jardine Matheson did in the run up to the hand back of Hong Kong and leave altogether out of a paranoid fear of becoming an overnight commie.

To preserve and maximise business levels, I would be looking at keeping both the European businesses working as part of Europe, and the arm here working as part of a separatist UK.

However, I would IMMEDIATELY be looking for any opportunity where the departure of the UK from EU could provide additional business/profit opportunities for my business.

That, in a nutshell, is what any half decent CEO in a commercial, capitalist organisation will do. They will maximise ANY potential opportunity - they maximised the opportunities when we went in the EU and there is no reason to believe that they would sit back and not try to maximise the opportunities presented by our potential departure.

That's what capitalism does - it evolves to take advantage of the prevailing market circumstances and forces.

It's the Political Class who cannot evolve in the same way - and it is they who stand to lose the most from any departure (in full or half-hearted) this country may make from the Eeeeeeuw...

"

I like this...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Actually, you've hit on a very valid point. If I were the CEO of a multi-national company with a presence in a number of European Countries (and maybe elsewhere too), I would take today's speech as being my starting point for preparing the company for the more-likely-than-not possibility that the UK will leave the EU in 2017. If I were that hypothetical CEO, I would clearly not want my business to be impacted either here or in any other country. You would NOT want to do what Jardine Matheson did in the run up to the hand back of Hong Kong and leave altogether out of a paranoid fear of becoming an overnight commie.

To preserve and maximise business levels, I would be looking at keeping both the European businesses working as part of Europe, and the arm here working as part of a separatist UK.

However, I would IMMEDIATELY be looking for any opportunity where the departure of the UK from EU could provide additional business/profit opportunities for my business.

That, in a nutshell, is what any half decent CEO in a commercial, capitalist organisation will do. They will maximise ANY potential opportunity - they maximised the opportunities when we went in the EU and there is no reason to believe that they would sit back and not try to maximise the opportunities presented by our potential departure.

That's what capitalism does - it evolves to take advantage of the prevailing market circumstances and forces.

It's the Political Class who cannot evolve in the same way - and it is they who stand to lose the most from any departure (in full or half-hearted) this country may make from the Eeeeeeuw...

I like this... "

Rare praise indeed. (blushes)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I like this...

Rare praise indeed. (blushes)

"

Twas that fellow A. A. Milne who once said,,,

The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley


"Eurocracy has to be a level playing field. Does the French car industry receive huge government financial support, yes, because it employs so many people! But against EU competition law. Was the Beef ban lifted. Yes, but many countries refused to acknowledge it and pay the paltry fines, which were far less than the uplift in their domestic beef markets in revenue and employment! It's two fingers to the EU when individual member states put their own agendas first. Will Europe trade with us outside of the EU, absolutely. We are in a global economy. About time we stuck up for our rites. Play fair EU or don't play at all and we should have the rite as citizens to self determine!!!

"

Another aside, when the French were kicking off about BAE systems ( other defence firms are available ) about our "cozy" relationship with the Saudis over Eurofighter, they harped on about unfair trade parctices against EU rules, ( Saudi Arabia is outside the EU the last time I looked ), they had their defence minister and foreign minister sat at Le Bourget airport waiting for the green light to fly out and flog the Rafaelle, which looks surprisingly like Typhoon to the Saudis. They dropped out of the typhoon program when they didn't get their own way in negotations, which included strict conditions on the split in the financing and manufacturing base.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"May i suggest you read some FACTS before posting emotional, off the cuff responses gleened from the Daily Fail "

But but but... it's my BIBLE!! I get withdrawal symptoms if I don't allow myself to be hoodwinked by it at least thrice daily (four on weekends).

Or do you have another general insult to hurl around for want of a better argument?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"May i suggest you read some FACTS before posting emotional, off the cuff responses gleened from the Daily Fail

But but but... it's my BIBLE!! I get withdrawal symptoms if I don't allow myself to be hoodwinked by it at least thrice daily (four on weekends).

Or do you have another general insult to hurl around for want of a better argument?"

There are few insults better than to accuse someone of reading the Dail Fail (even if most purchasers have to have their nurse read it to them).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MSN’s home page is conducting an “In or Out” straw-pole….

At the moment its 70% in favour of leaving….

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would have been semi-impressed if Dave had said we would be having a referendum BEFORE the next General Election.

Wasn't going to happen though...

I think he knows full well which way a referendum will go and to buy our struggling economy a bit of time he's set five years to get our finances shipshape before we vote 'No'. There's no doubt we'll survive outside of the EU but our economy will nosedive in the immediate aftermath of exiting it as the markets will be riddled with uncertainty for a couple of years until we prove we can cope without the EU.

Whichever way it goes we'll still trade with Europe but we won't be tied to them and voting 'No' will have the added benefit of hauling back all the powers we've given to Brussels and setting our own immigration, taxation, human rights charters etc. We had all them before the EU so there's no reason we can't have them again.

I'd rather we were in Europe than out of it but with the way Europe is at the moment I can't see it being resolved in time for a referendum to return a 'Yes' vote.

Actually, you've hit on a very valid point. If I were the CEO of a multi-national company with a presence in a number of European Countries (and maybe elsewhere too), I would take today's speech as being my starting point for preparing the company for the more-likely-than-not possibility that the UK will leave the EU in 2017. If I were that hypothetical CEO, I would clearly not want my business to be impacted either here or in any other country. You would NOT want to do what Jardine Matheson did in the run up to the hand back of Hong Kong and leave altogether out of a paranoid fear of becoming an overnight commie.

To preserve and maximise business levels, I would be looking at keeping both the European businesses working as part of Europe, and the arm here working as part of a separatist UK.

However, I would IMMEDIATELY be looking for any opportunity where the departure of the UK from EU could provide additional business/profit opportunities for my business.

That, in a nutshell, is what any half decent CEO in a commercial, capitalist organisation will do. They will maximise ANY potential opportunity - they maximised the opportunities when we went in the EU and there is no reason to believe that they would sit back and not try to maximise the opportunities presented by our potential departure.

That's what capitalism does - it evolves to take advantage of the prevailing market circumstances and forces.

It's the Political Class who cannot evolve in the same way - and it is they who stand to lose the most from any departure (in full or half-hearted) this country may make from the Eeeeeeuw...

"

I think between us we'd come up with a pretty good manifesto on Europe. Which party do you want to send it to? All of them? I vote Dave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sod Europe,lets become the 52nd USA state.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"May i suggest you read some FACTS before posting emotional, off the cuff responses gleened from the Daily Fail

But but but... it's my BIBLE!! I get withdrawal symptoms if I don't allow myself to be hoodwinked by it at least thrice daily (four on weekends).

Or do you have another general insult to hurl around for want of a better argument?

There are few insults better than to accuse someone of reading the Dail Fail (even if most purchasers have to have their nurse read it to them)."

I tried reading it once but it didn't have any pichures of nekid wimim in it, so I went back the the Sun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sod Europe,lets become the 52nd USA state."

huh? Is there a 51st already then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Actually, you've hit on a very valid point. If I were the CEO of a multi-national company with a presence in a number of European Countries (and maybe elsewhere too), I would take today's speech as being my starting point for preparing the company for the more-likely-than-not possibility that the UK will leave the EU in 2017. If I were that hypothetical CEO, I would clearly not want my business to be impacted either here or in any other country. You would NOT want to do what Jardine Matheson did in the run up to the hand back of Hong Kong and leave altogether out of a paranoid fear of becoming an overnight commie.

To preserve and maximise business levels, I would be looking at keeping both the European businesses working as part of Europe, and the arm here working as part of a separatist UK.

However, I would IMMEDIATELY be looking for any opportunity where the departure of the UK from EU could provide additional business/profit opportunities for my business.

That, in a nutshell, is what any half decent CEO in a commercial, capitalist organisation will do. They will maximise ANY potential opportunity - they maximised the opportunities when we went in the EU and there is no reason to believe that they would sit back and not try to maximise the opportunities presented by our potential departure.

That's what capitalism does - it evolves to take advantage of the prevailing market circumstances and forces.

It's the Political Class who cannot evolve in the same way - and it is they who stand to lose the most from any departure (in full or half-hearted) this country may make from the Eeeeeeuw...

I like this...

Rare praise indeed. (blushes)

"

Well it was pretty good. Do you do barmitzvas too?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

uh,yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sod Europe,lets become the 52nd USA state.

huh? Is there a 51st already then? "

Ain't you seen the film then..???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I like this...

Rare praise indeed. (blushes)

Well it was pretty good. Do you do barmitzvas too?"

I could be persuvaded, already...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"MSN’s home page is conducting an “In or Out” straw-pole….

At the moment its 70% in favour of leaving…. "

I can see that figure rising over time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sod Europe,lets become the 52nd USA state."

Hey, apologies, I hadn't seen that Puerto Rico had voted to become the 51st state back in November. When you consider most of them are in America already it makes perfect sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I cant see this happening, cuz they wont get voted in again.....

But...it would be a no from me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oo'er.... PMQ's is rather good today,,, lots of "order-orders"...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Oo'er.... PMQ's is rather good today,,, lots of "order-orders"... "

Full house too...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

PMQ's...

Dave asks Ed... does he want a referendum….?.

Ed answers No!

Then Ed asks Dave.... are you in favour of leaving?.... Dave say's No......

Then they argue about it....

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By *uriouskinky2Couple
over a year ago

wrexham

By deferring a promised referendum until after the next election Cameltoe is hoping to neutralise the threat posed to the Conservative party by UKIP.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I cant see this happening, cuz they wont get voted in again.....

But...it would be a no from me. "

I think he's played an absolute blinder as neither Labour nor the LibDems can afford to go to a General election with the Tories being the only party to promise a referendum in 2017 (UKIP wouldn't offer one either because they would take an election victory as mandate from the people to pull the UK out)

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Missing PMQs today and I haven't read all of the comments.

It was a cleverly worded statement and argues for the electorate to make a clear vote to one way or another in the next election. The big question then is what would the referendum question say? It's really not one question.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"PMQ's...

Dave asks Ed... does he want a referendum….?.

Ed answers No!

Then Ed asks Dave.... are you in favour of leaving?.... Dave say's No......

Then they argue about it.... "

It's not going to be down to what Dave or Ed wants though is it? Dave has hamstrung Labour into promising a referendum too. Labour won't stand a chance of winning in 2015 without it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Missing PMQs today and I haven't read all of the comments.

It was a cleverly worded statement and argues for the electorate to make a clear vote to one way or another in the next election. The big question then is what would the referendum question say? It's really not one question."

I remember my Dad saying after voting in the 1975 'Do we stay in?' referendum that he wasn't sure if he'd voted in the way he wanted, as the question on the ballot paper wasn't made public until you got into the voting booth. As he was dyslexic, that made it doubly difficult for him.

If any referendum were to held, and be fair, the actual question which will appear on the ballot paper should be fully publicised in the 28 days immediately prior to the vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"May i suggest you read some FACTS before posting emotional, off the cuff responses gleened from the Daily Fail

But but but... it's my BIBLE!! I get withdrawal symptoms if I don't allow myself to be hoodwinked by it at least thrice daily (four on weekends).

Or do you have another general insult to hurl around for want of a better argument?

There are few insults better than to accuse someone of reading the Dail Fail (even if most purchasers have to have their nurse read it to them).

I tried reading it once but it didn't have any pichures of nekid wimim in it, so I went back the the Sun. "
why doesn't it surprise me that you picked up this small part of my post! It isn't me looking for the 'better arguement', i'm still waiting for you to admit you were wrong in your earlier post. or show me FACTS to the contrary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"PMQ's...

Dave asks Ed... does he want a referendum….?.

Ed answers No!

Then Ed asks Dave.... are you in favour of leaving?.... Dave say's No......

Then they argue about it....

It's not going to be down to what Dave or Ed wants though is it? Dave has hamstrung Labour into promising a referendum too. Labour won't stand a chance of winning in 2015 without it."

I felt Dave dropped a bit of clanger today……

Challanged with a “in it together” question where the example of disabled person faced with the imminent benefit changes could be left with only £2 a day for food, clothing and personal hygiene products. He declined to comment on the Human effects of that situation and spoke instead about benefit comparison of two years ago…

Not good....!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just found this rather interesting reaction quote to Dave's speech...

Nikki Sinclaire, MEP for the We Demand a Referendum party

"Currently, politicians are unfortunately playing games with the general public, peddling half and untruths and opinions that do frighten the general public long before a referendum date has even been set.

"One example is that trade depends on membership, but this is simply nonsense. If we left the EU, we would have a free trade agreement, for two reasons. Firstly because the EU certainly can't afford to put at risk their 5 million jobs liked to our trade, and secondly because the Lisbon treaty also obliges the EU to negotiate Free Trade Agreements (FTAs) with a member-state that wishes to withdraw, as well as with states that are not EU members - why did Cameron choose to omit this fact from his speech?"

Discuss.... specially the bit about the Eu having to negotiate free agreements with a withdrawing member state....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Firstly I'd say that possibly putting 5 million EU jobs at risk, spread out over the few hundred million people under the EU banner is not going to faze them.

Secondly I'd imagine they can pretty much ignore what's written on the Lisbon treaty if a state is leaving. What are they going to do? Who are they going to complain to? Would rather the UK wasn't the country to test out how watertight the treaty might be on that issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just found this rather interesting reaction quote to Dave's speech...

Nikki Sinclaire, MEP for the We Demand a Referendum party

"Currently, politicians are unfortunately playing games with the general public, peddling half and untruths and opinions that do frighten the general public long before a referendum date has even been set.

"One example is that trade depends on membership, but this is simply nonsense. If we left the EU, we would have a free trade agreement, for two reasons. Firstly because the EU certainly can't afford to put at risk their 5 million jobs liked to our trade, and secondly because the Lisbon treaty also obliges the EU to negotiate Free Trade Agreements (FTAs) with a member-state that wishes to withdraw, as well as with states that are not EU members - why did Cameron choose to omit this fact from his speech?"

Discuss.... specially the bit about the Eu having to negotiate free agreements with a withdrawing member state....

"

His speech was timed for the minutes he was speaking and he knew that including FTAs that we would negotiate upon exit from the EU would make it seem to his European counterparts that exiting was a foregone conclusion. His stated aim is that the UK should remain within the EU and talk about FTAs would put him firmly in the Exit camp, which is not where he wants to be pigeon-holed.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"PMQ's...

Dave asks Ed... does he want a referendum….?.

Ed answers No!

Then Ed asks Dave.... are you in favour of leaving?.... Dave say's No......

Then they argue about it....

It's not going to be down to what Dave or Ed wants though is it? Dave has hamstrung Labour into promising a referendum too. Labour won't stand a chance of winning in 2015 without it.

I felt Dave dropped a bit of clanger today……

Challanged with a “in it together” question where the example of disabled person faced with the imminent benefit changes could be left with only £2 a day for food, clothing and personal hygiene products. He declined to comment on the Human effects of that situation and spoke instead about benefit comparison of two years ago…

Not good....!"

nothing new there then for him..

he uses disability and the NHS when it suits his agenda..

rest of the time he is watching others do his dirty work for him..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The renegotiation is a myth, the only way to have new conditions is through an orderly exit via Clause 50 of the Lisbon treaty then reentering under new terms via Clause 49. We would still be members of the single market throughout, and it would not be a fax democracy as we would have a definite say in proposed legislation as an independent country. See the blog site http://www.eureferendum.com/ for a proper explanation of the games being played by our politicians.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"PMQ's...

Dave asks Ed... does he want a referendum….?.

Ed answers No!

Then Ed asks Dave.... are you in favour of leaving?.... Dave say's No......

Then they argue about it....

It's not going to be down to what Dave or Ed wants though is it? Dave has hamstrung Labour into promising a referendum too. Labour won't stand a chance of winning in 2015 without it.

I felt Dave dropped a bit of clanger today……

Challanged with a “in it together” question where the example of disabled person faced with the imminent benefit changes could be left with only £2 a day for food, clothing and personal hygiene products. He declined to comment on the Human effects of that situation and spoke instead about benefit comparison of two years ago…

Not good....!

nothing new there then for him..

he uses disability and the NHS when it suits his agenda..

rest of the time he is watching others do his dirty work for him.."

I just felt rather disappointed he didn’t even attempt to show any empathy in the time he spent responding to the question….!.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"PMQ's...

Dave asks Ed... does he want a referendum….?.

Ed answers No!

Then Ed asks Dave.... are you in favour of leaving?.... Dave say's No......

Then they argue about it....

It's not going to be down to what Dave or Ed wants though is it? Dave has hamstrung Labour into promising a referendum too. Labour won't stand a chance of winning in 2015 without it.

I felt Dave dropped a bit of clanger today……

Challanged with a “in it together” question where the example of disabled person faced with the imminent benefit changes could be left with only £2 a day for food, clothing and personal hygiene products. He declined to comment on the Human effects of that situation and spoke instead about benefit comparison of two years ago…

Not good....!

nothing new there then for him..

he uses disability and the NHS when it suits his agenda..

rest of the time he is watching others do his dirty work for him..

I just felt rather disappointed he didn’t even attempt to show any empathy in the time he spent responding to the question….!."

why would he, his empathy is indicated and apparent with the policies being implemented by ATOS..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I felt Dave dropped a bit of clanger today……

Challanged with a “in it together” question where the example of disabled person faced with the imminent benefit changes could be left with only £2 a day for food, clothing and personal hygiene products. He declined to comment on the Human effects of that situation and spoke instead about benefit comparison of two years ago…

Not good....!

nothing new there then for him..

he uses disability and the NHS when it suits his agenda..

rest of the time he is watching others do his dirty work for him..

I just felt rather disappointed he didn’t even attempt to show any empathy in the time he spent responding to the question….!.

why would he, his empathy is indicated and apparent with the policies being implemented by ATOS.."

I didn’t intend my comment to be party political …..

I just meant it from a human perspective, where the example given was of someone who is long term disabled with limited options for self help….

There was simply no recognition shown by DC that life can be very hard when your totally reliant on bare minimum levels of subsistence.

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester

I think our (the UK's)problem is we have never fully integrated with the EU, Our governments negotiated an opt out clause in the 90s and have continually opted out of key legislation which benefitted the vast majority at the expense of a very rich minority, The EU seems to be a runaway (gravy)train and those aboard are living in some kind of paradise where money can be thrown at anything they want and those doing the giving have no choice but to pay up. EU accounts have not been signed off for 20+ years because there are vast amounts of money which has dissappeared without trace. Some countries in the EU are taking out 30% more than they put in, they want the UK to stop rocking the boat and pay up, others are balancing it out so what goes in is given back in a variety of ways so they want it to go on as normal, but the UK pays in more than it gets back so on the whole financially it makes no sense to keep on paying into a fund whereby you get back less than you put in.

If we do have a referendum its a case of the virgin in the brothel either 100% commitment losing what makes you different from the rest, or back out and go somewhere else.

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

I do not really think at this moment in time i have enough "real" information to make a decision .

However at this point i have to go with my gut feeling ,which is that every 5 years ish we "lend" our powers to the government voted in. That does not give that government the right to give those powers away to a 3rd party as has happened in the past.

Add to that we have been duped by the political class into believing we would have a referendum and then been let down ,something is democratically wrong within Europe. The twisting and turning they did when ireland said no in a referendum made me feel really uncomfortable,if the irish vote had been a close yes ,would a second referendum have been had.

Purely on Democratic grounds alone my gut feel is to tell em to stuff it.

We may fuck up or do well either way ,but at least its our decision and not some faceless Eurocrat's

I think labour et al have to offer the in out solution too, otherwise they will be left wanting at the next election.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I not convinced there’s is any clear-cut examples of EU counties with a similar population and social structure to our own where their economy have exponentially grown as a direct result of EU membership….

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By *xodussxMan
over a year ago

sheffield

I don't that many people want to leave their countries and come here like the politicians and some euro septics are trying to tell us

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon


"Jeezusss H christ... this really boils my piss!

We've had years to get this sorted, and still people argue over it, one side says one thing... the other side says something different, and all the time they are both wrong!!

NO SAUCE on fekkin spaghetti goddammit! Its already in sauce ffs!

Yes, but salt is allowed innit? Ya gotta have salt, or it's just bland. "

OMFG!

You, sir, should never be let near a ballot box.... salt indeed! Next you will be confessing to the heinous crime of Tomato sauce on fried egss... goddammit, the whole county's going to hell in a handbasket!

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By *xodussxMan
over a year ago

sheffield


"

OMFG!

You, sir, should never be let near a ballot box.... salt indeed! Next you will be confessing to the heinous crime of Tomato sauce on fried egss... goddammit, the whole county's going to hell in a handbasket! "
...Calm down, calm down dear

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't believe a word Cameroon sayes , so we vote the Tories back in and we get to vote on a simple yes or no......

They've broken so many pledges since they came to power

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jeezusss H christ... this really boils my piss!

We've had years to get this sorted, and still people argue over it, one side says one thing... the other side says something different, and all the time they are both wrong!!

NO SAUCE on fekkin spaghetti goddammit! Its already in sauce ffs!

Yes, but salt is allowed innit? Ya gotta have salt, or it's just bland.

OMFG!

You, sir, should never be let near a ballot box.... salt indeed! Next you will be confessing to the heinous crime of Tomato sauce on fried egss... goddammit, the whole county's going to hell in a handbasket! "

No, no, NO! Never on fried eggs!! Only salt goes on fried eggs! Even a non-voting idiot knows that!

There is only one occassion you should use red sauce, and that's on garden peas, with fish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don't believe a word Cameroon sayes , so we vote the Tories back in and we get to vote on a simple yes or no......

They've broken so many pledges since they came to power "

It's one thing to break a pledge, it's quite another to break a country. RIP Labour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The twisting and turning they did when ireland said no in a referendum made me feel really uncomfortable,if the irish vote had been a close yes ,would a second referendum have been had.

~

I think labour et al have to offer the in out solution too, otherwise they will be left wanting at the next election.

"

The Irish question left me with a sick taste in my mouth too. They kept on putting it to the vote *until* they said 'yes'. At least Cameron has stated that it's a one-way ticket - for the foreseeable future anyway, but I suspect that if the UK leaves the EU, Euroland will break up soon after. Without our EU budget going into the pot every year they'll have less funds to redistribute to the corrupt economies that are freeloading from the EU as it stands at the moment. As someone said above, if we're getting back 30% less than we put in someone else must be getting more than they put in.

And yes, I agree, Labour and the LibDems have been boxed into offering a referendum after 2015 or they simply won't win the election. 2015 is going to be a one policy campaign - EU Membership, which will suit Farage and his merry little bunch.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon


"Jeezusss H christ... this really boils my piss!

We've had years to get this sorted, and still people argue over it, one side says one thing... the other side says something different, and all the time they are both wrong!!

NO SAUCE on fekkin spaghetti goddammit! Its already in sauce ffs!

Yes, but salt is allowed innit? Ya gotta have salt, or it's just bland.

OMFG!

You, sir, should never be let near a ballot box.... salt indeed! Next you will be confessing to the heinous crime of Tomato sauce on fried egss... goddammit, the whole county's going to hell in a handbasket!

No, no, NO! Never on fried eggs!! Only salt goes on fried eggs! Even a non-voting idiot knows that!

There is only one occassion you should use red sauce, and that's on garden peas, with fish."

(Bangs head on desk)

Just for a second, as I read your first line, did I think that all was well, your previous posts were just a momentary lapse.

Until I read the second line.... ARE YOU MAD?

Now, maybe, just maybe, you meant fish fingers, in which case all is well, but if not then all I can say is that you, sir, are barking mad.... tomato sauce on fish, ON FISH?

Everyone knows it should be salad cream ffs!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"..............

And yes, I agree, Labour and the LibDems have been boxed into offering a referendum after 2015 or they simply won't win the election. 2015 is going to be a one policy campaign - EU Membership, which will suit Farage and his merry little bunch."

At the risk of confusing the issue, can I point out that Ed Miliband has ruled out support for an in-or-out referendum on Britain's membership of the EU on the terms proposed by David Cameron in his speech on Europe.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The part of his speech that shows that this is all an attempt at appeasement in order to head off the threat to his parties share of the vote at the next general election from the far right...

"And when we have negotiated that NEW settlement we will give the British people a referendum....."

The Germans, Spanish and the French have already stated that there cannot legally be negotiation for a new settlement under the EU constitution, so the electorate will be voting him in on the strength of a promise he cannot keep....there will be no renegotiation of the terms of our membership of the EU because there is not the means to do so within the constitution, he knows this and is relying on the knee jerk decision of the electorate who cannot understand this.

Giving people a false hope that the terms of our membership can be renegotiated....shameful.

Yes or No......NOW

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

-----------

Totally agree with the above post

- voters should be required to pass a fairly rudimentary test before being allowed to vote , otherwise, if you don't at least basically understand the issues then you have no worthwhile opinion- or right to vote. Simples.

I would go further - I would make such a test mandatory on ALL members of the population, and you only get to vote IF you pass.... Simple questions, such as 'Who is the Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer' (Clue: another name for bollocks).

Bet you'd still get wrong answers...

"

Nutz ???? !!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

a political parties promise is about as worthless as a ten bob note.5 yrs is a long time and much will change in that time .camoron is just buying time and knows he has to offer something to the ppl that labour wont and thats a vote on europe.if and its a big if the cons get into power without the help of the lib dems dont hold your breath on a referendum camoron will use every trick in the book to not give us one.there is also the small matter of grabbing some powers back from europe in the meentime and he knows full well thats nigh on impossible

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

In order for any member state of the EU to renegotiate it's terms of membership there needs to be a new all member treaty drawn up and agreed on.

The other leading members states will not agree to a new treaty on the strength of one member state wanting to cherry pick what suits them and what doesn't.

In the coming months this truth will become all too apparent as Cameron cannot hide the facts, his promise of a renegotiated membership is hot air and isn't even legal within the EU constitution....and he hasn't got the balls to hold a referendum without a renegotiation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In order for any member state of the EU to renegotiate it's terms of membership there needs to be a new all member treaty drawn up and agreed on.

The other leading members states will not agree to a new treaty on the strength of one member state wanting to cherry pick what suits them and what doesn't.

In the coming months this truth will become all too apparent as Cameron cannot hide the facts, his promise of a renegotiated membership is hot air and isn't even legal within the EU constitution....and he hasn't got the balls to hold a referendum without a renegotiation."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In order for any member state of the EU to renegotiate it's terms of membership there needs to be a new all member treaty drawn up and agreed on.

The other leading members states will not agree to a new treaty on the strength of one member state wanting to cherry pick what suits them and what doesn't.

In the coming months this truth will become all too apparent as Cameron cannot hide the facts, his promise of a renegotiated membership is hot air and isn't even legal within the EU constitution....and he hasn't got the balls to hold a referendum without a renegotiation."

His speech wasn't just aimed at us, it was aimed at his EU counterparts too. What he's done is to set his stall out and demand renegotiation or he'll put it to us and we'll vote 'No'. He knows what we'd vote at this moment in time and now Europe does too. His talk of exiting was telling them that he knows we'll vote 'No'.

As for being within legal EU framework, well, this is an organisation that hasn't been audited for 20 years, so I think we can take it as read that ignoring EU legal framework is a viable option for all countries involved in a renegotiation. Let's not forget too that during such negotiations each member state will also be vying for a deal better than the current treaty gives them.

Dave has been very shrewd today and it is my opinion he has come of age as a world statesman.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

isn't this the second time he's said we can have one? it won't happen but labour won't be able to bring it up when in power for fear of being accused or rehashing old tory ideas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

-----------

Totally agree with the above post

- voters should be required to pass a fairly rudimentary test before being allowed to vote , otherwise, if you don't at least basically understand the issues then you have no worthwhile opinion- or right to vote. Simples.

I would go further - I would make such a test mandatory on ALL members of the population, and you only get to vote IF you pass.... Simple questions, such as 'Who is the Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer' (Clue: another name for bollocks).

Bet you'd still get wrong answers...

Nutz ???? !!!!!! "

My point proved, I think... Trust you Minxie.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"isn't this the second time he's said we can have one? it won't happen but labour won't be able to bring it up when in power for fear of being accused or rehashing old tory ideas"

It was part of the Tory party election manifesto, but the coalition agreement negated most of both parties manifestos didn't it. It was a completely new set of policies cobbled together from both parties, but it has always been in the back of his mind that the UK needed to be put to a referendum on Europe and now he's set a timeframe for it to happen.

As for Labour and the LibDems, they can't contest the next election without promising a referendum in the same timeframe.

He's pulled off a master stroke with this speech as he has effectively:

* Hamstrung Labour and the Libdems into promising a referendum too

* and he's told Europe in no uncertain terms to renegotiate or we're out.

His credibility will go up after today and I'm sure Mori will be doing research to see what the % are on how people will vote. A lot can change between now and 2015 but Dave has the momentum right now and Ed is lagging way behind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

-----------

Totally agree with the above post

- voters should be required to pass a fairly rudimentary test before being allowed to vote , otherwise, if you don't at least basically understand the issues then you have no worthwhile opinion- or right to vote. Simples.

I would go further - I would make such a test mandatory on ALL members of the population, and you only get to vote IF you pass.... Simple questions, such as 'Who is the Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer' (Clue: another name for bollocks).

Bet you'd still get wrong answers...

Nutz ???? !!!!!!

My point proved, I think... Trust you Minxie.....

"

Happy to oblige Pork ........... u load I'll fire ........... I dont think I should have said that on here should I lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/01/13 20:03:49]

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By *xpresMan
over a year ago

Elland

Think we should of had a say when we got draged into it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Think we should of had a say when we got draged into it"

Our parents did. In 1975. They voted Yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

My point proved, I think... Trust you Minxie.....

Happy to oblige Pork ........... u load I'll fire ........... I dont think I should have said that on here should I lol "

You can pull my trigger anytime....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"..............

And yes, I agree, Labour and the LibDems have been boxed into offering a referendum after 2015 or they simply won't win the election. 2015 is going to be a one policy campaign - EU Membership, which will suit Farage and his merry little bunch.

At the risk of confusing the issue, can I point out that Ed Miliband has ruled out support for an in-or-out referendum on Britain's membership of the EU on the terms proposed by David Cameron in his speech on Europe.

"

That must be today he said that then and I haven't seen it. What alternative is he offering?

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

Forget about an EU referendum for the time being....why can't we ALL have a vote in The Scottish Independance Referendum? Then let's think about Europe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Forget about an EU referendum for the time being....why can't we ALL have a vote in The Scottish Independance Referendum? Then let's think about Europe. "

If it's a decision that determines the future of Scotland then it's right that only the Scots vote on it. I welcome them if they decide to stay, but if they decide to go it alone then good luck to them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Forget about an EU referendum for the time being....why can't we ALL have a vote in The Scottish Independance Referendum? Then let's think about Europe. "

Yeah - kick the Jocks out first, then we'll go for Johnny Frog!! Now there's a plan....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he wants to keep us out of Europe he should talk to brendan rodgers

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"If he wants to keep us out of Europe he should talk to brendan rodgers "

It's an oldie, just update manager/club, but still chuckleable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Forget about an EU referendum for the time being....why can't we ALL have a vote in The Scottish Independance Referendum? Then let's think about Europe.

Yeah - kick the Jocks out first, then we'll go for Johnny Frog!! Now there's a plan....

"

You bad!! BAD!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Forget about an EU referendum for the time being....why can't we ALL have a vote in The Scottish Independance Referendum? Then let's think about Europe.

Yeah - kick the Jocks out first, then we'll go for Johnny Frog!! Now there's a plan....

You bad!! BAD! "

As an Englishman living in Scotland who will be here for the referendum, I'd just like it to be known that my principles are very negotiable and my vote can be bought.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"If he wants to keep us out of Europe he should talk to brendan rodgers

It's an oldie, just update manager/club, but still chuckleable"

yep, for decades it was Chelsea and whomever of dozens of managers they have had..

then they get one who won it..

and sacked him..

funny old game..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If he wants to keep us out of Europe he should talk to brendan rodgers

It's an oldie, just update manager/club, but still chuckleable

yep, for decades it was Chelsea and whomever of dozens of managers they have had..

then they get one who won it..

and sacked him..

funny old game.."

touche

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Forget about an EU referendum for the time being....why can't we ALL have a vote in The Scottish Independance Referendum? Then let's think about Europe.

Yeah - kick the Jocks out first, then we'll go for Johnny Frog!! Now there's a plan....

You bad!! BAD! "

I know, but I'm lovable with it.....

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By *illycarrolCouple
over a year ago

n/cle on tyne

whilst i respect everybodies difference of opinions on here ,do yous really think anything is going to change, in out in out nowt will change, no matter who you vote for the government get in, meet the new boss same as the old boss never a truer sentence sung

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I heard Nigel Farrage on R4 earlier this evening claiming this as UKIP's greatest victory to date.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I heard Nigel Farrage on R4 earlier this evening claiming this as UKIP's greatest victory to date."

If Farage gets his way and Britain votes to leave the UK UKIP will become a redundant party. That's always the danger with a one-policy party, once they get what they want they don't have anything else to campaign with.

UKIP will lose a lot of their support to the Conservatives if they're the only party offering an in/out referendum, which is why I believe Labour cannoy afford to let the Tories be the only party offering it.

Miliband shot himself in the foot today when he said 'NO' to a referendum and straight away Labour spin doctors said, 'well, no doesn't mean not ever, just not right now'. They're all over the place with it and losing ground by the minute.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does anyone believe that it will happen? There seems to be an awful lot of IF's in the slippery politicians statement.

At best it's a negotiation tactic, at worst it's a cynical appeasement of the radical parts of the conservative that are straining against the lib-dems.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well said. Leaving the EU would be a stupid short sighted move which would see what's left of our industry disappear.

Remember, it is always easiest to blame all your problems on a third party."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Does anyone believe that it will happen? There seems to be an awful lot of IF's in the slippery politicians statement.

At best it's a negotiation tactic, at worst it's a cynical appeasement of the radical parts of the conservative that are straining against the lib-dems. "

I think he's nailed his pants to the mast and he's committed to giving the UK a referendum on Europe.

What factors could negate the need for a referendum?

* If the EU kick us out? Highly unlikely.

* If Cameron gets the deal he wants in any renegotiations? Doubtful, as it only takes one member state to veto a request from Britain and he won't get what he wants.

* If he accepts a watered down deal and tries to convince us that's what he wanted all along? I'd plump for that excuse if what he really wants is to renege on giving us a referendum, but, if he does that he'll lose votes over it in 2020.

If you think about it, Cameron stands to lose out if he gets almost the deal he wants from Europe but is committed to giving us a vote on it, because I believe the majority of the UK will vote 'No' if he puts it to a referendum. If Cameron understands that then he must concede that the British people do not want to be part of a Federal Europe.

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By *ecky-booTV/TS
over a year ago

worthing

ok here's how this inevitably plays out

1, EU must continue centralising power to save the euro.

2, Torie must lose next election as current constituency boundaries make a tory majority all but impossible

3, Labour Govt makes half hearted attempt to renogiate terms with EU and is rebutted

4, No referendum ensues as there is no new deal to ratify

painfully obvious really

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Does anyone believe that it will happen? There seems to be an awful lot of IF's in the slippery politicians statement.

At best it's a negotiation tactic, at worst it's a cynical appeasement of the radical parts of the conservative that are straining against the lib-dems. "

think its more about the tories losing their core support day by day to UKIP..

its a huge gamble and risky for our economy long term..

we will still trade with them if we leave but they will set the rules to suit themselves, why would'nt they after all..

dont think europe per se are going to renegotiate with us before the deadline of whenever this takes place post the tories assumption of winning the 2015 election..

and that is not a given either..

why would they, would we in their position..?

change this or we leave, ok then fuck off may be the response..

be interesting to see what some of the euro friendly tories say in the next few days..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/01/13 01:39:47]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"ok here's how this inevitably plays out

1, EU must continue centralising power to save the euro.

2, Torie must lose next election as current constituency boundaries make a tory majority all but impossible

3, Labour Govt makes half hearted attempt to renogiate terms with EU and is rebutted

4, No referendum ensues as there is no new deal to ratify

painfully obvious really"

You're wrong on point 2. The reason we have a coalition govt now is because the Libdems split the Tory vote. Clegg has made the LibDems unelectable and the support he gained with his No Uni Fees promise will return to the Tories in droves. There is the Conservative majority, and it will be a landslide if Labour doesn't guarantee a referendum as UKIP support will turn to the Tories too, as well as disaffected Labour voters who want their say over Europe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder how many people who have posted on here actually listened to the speech?

Europe becomes the next election issue.

Britain has the time and the opportunity for the next government to be a part of a renegotiated Europe for the benefit of the whole of Europe. DC is absolutely correct that the current European structures are complex and unwieldy and are already an a la carte arrangement.

If Britain can be at the heart of a renegotiated structure then that would be one of the greatest political victories of all time. The problem after that would be to convince the British public that the newly overhauled EU is good for Britain.

For Britain to overhaul Europe and then vote itself out would be a bit of a nonsense.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Great to watch Tories at each others throats after little more than 24 hours.

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

Of course like most election promises they could just get elected and "forget" the referendum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/01/13 11:43:55]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Great to watch Tories at each others throats after little more than 24 hours."

Is that what unified applause from the backbenches to the front is then? Strange that, I always thought applause involved clapping one's hands together to make a sound, not putting them round someone else's throat to stifle a sound.

I've very quickly reaching the conclusion that you post one line quips in the hope it may be true, but it is done more out of forlorn hope than any real hope.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For Britain to overhaul Europe and then vote itself out would be a bit of a nonsense."

That's the achilles heel in Cameron's position now, and I'm pretty sure that if he works hard for what he feels he wants for the UK from the EU, and gets it, he won't risk it in a referendum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question.

Why can you not ask the majority of people in a nation a complex political question ?

Should the question only be asked to those who don't conform to the norm ?

Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote."

Isn't that going back to the days of the "rotten boroughs" ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question.

Why can you not ask the majority of people in a nation a complex political question ?

Should the question only be asked to those who don't conform to the norm ?

Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

Isn't that going back to the days of the "rotten boroughs" ? "

And a robber button is?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Great to watch Tories at each others throats after little more than 24 hours.

Is that what unified applause from the backbenches to the front is then? Strange that, I always thought applause involved clapping one's hands together to make a sound, not putting them round someone else's throat to stifle a sound.

............."

Not those Tories; they're just lobby fodder (although there's about 100 of them ready not to back Cameron). Even some of the payroll vote have doubts.

I'm talking about the Tories out in what passes for the real world on their planet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question.

Why can you not ask the majority of people in a nation a complex political question ?

Should the question only be asked to those who don't conform to the norm ?

Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote.

Isn't that going back to the days of the "rotten boroughs" ?

And a robber button is? "

Coffee up me nose!

Now all we need is a dachsund called Colin, we've already got the idiot voter!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"I wonder how many people who have posted on here actually listened to the speech?

Europe becomes the next election issue.

Britain has the time and the opportunity for the next government to be a part of a renegotiated Europe for the benefit of the whole of Europe. DC is absolutely correct that the current European structures are complex and unwieldy and are already an a la carte arrangement.

If Britain can be at the heart of a renegotiated structure then that would be one of the greatest political victories of all time. The problem after that would be to convince the British public that the newly overhauled EU is good for Britain.

For Britain to overhaul Europe and then vote itself out would be a bit of a nonsense."

i agree with that and would suggest that if polls were taken today on what peoples perceptions are of what he said then a majority may well say 'he said we can have an in/out vote on Europe'..

he has got to try and get the reforms he thinks we and his party need then explain why there wont be one, if and thats the crux of the matter he achieves what a lot of other countries on the gravy train want to keep..

if there was an 'in/out' vote next week i would bet the result would be out..

its a big gamble and i dont think myself its all about UK plc..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Think we should of had a say when we got draged into it

Our parents did. In 1975. They voted Yes."

Wrong. In 1975 we voted for free trade, then the megalomaniac empire builders took over.

There was far too much common sense back then to put up with what we have now

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


".........

if there was an 'in/out' vote next week i would bet the result would be out..

.................."

Which is why it's been kicked into the very long grass - same as Scotland's Separation referendum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Think we should of had a say when we got draged into it

Our parents did. In 1975. They voted Yes.

Wrong. In 1975 we voted for free trade, then the megalomaniac empire builders took over.

There was far too much common sense back then to put up with what we have now "

In 1975 our parents voted in a referendum to remain in the common market. Had they said 'No' back then, they'd have been asked again and again and again until they said 'Yes'. We were always going to go into the Common Market one way or another.

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By *ansue35Couple
over a year ago

yorkshire


"I think my last post was a bit too long winded. So I'll make it simpler.

You cannot ask people who think that shows like TOWIE, Big Brother, Xfactor, I'm a Celebrity etc...are brilliant, a complex political question.

Why can you not ask the majority of people in a nation a complex political question ?

Should the question only be asked to those who don't conform to the norm ?

Without wishing to sound elitist some people should never be let near a polling station. It perplexes me that my life could be determined by idiots with a vote."

THANKS

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


".........

if there was an 'in/out' vote next week i would bet the result would be out..

..................

Which is why it's been kicked into the very long grass - same as Scotland's Separation referendum."

oh i know m8, thing is he has had to offer it as a carrot cos his party is losing support to the lemming party..

once its on the table its not going to be easy to take it away again..

if the others also say ok we'll have one as well if we win based on the same criteria that's extra pressure to make the thing work for the tories..

mind you the lying cunts could just be doing that again to us...

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley

Listening to Angela Merkel yesterday, think DC has rattled a rather large sabre! He has been the first significant G8 member of the EU to voice his dissatisfaction with the eurocracy. The admission by the German Chancellor that the whole EU mish mash does need a significant overhaul, brought about by yesterdays statement might just benefit us all ( Europe ). Clegg and labours' stance of not wanting to have a referendum is highly insulting to the British public, as it clearly says that our politicians do not trust us to make a valued call on our future, when it is our wealth that pays their salaries and for the running of the country. As all the political parties are are apolitical, all slightly right of centre as this is the only way to be electable, the referendum question has become an election decider. If DC's statement yesterday brings about reform in the next 5 years that benefits Britain and Europe, then we all benefit.

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