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" Talking about the last post from the last thread. As normal you bring the party you hate so much into your posts....I am not sure why as the question could be answered without. I don't give a toss what party said what to who....the question was, why do you think one set of people ( morgage payers )who have been working and paying their taxes cannot get the same sort of help as the other set of people who pay rent ? " It's all relevant though isn't it. One party says one thing, another says something else, the bottom line is who is affected by it. My prsonal _iew is that private homeowners have more to lose than council tennants and if they've reached a point where they've managed to buy a house then they should be realistic about their finances and build a slush fund for emergencies. It's madness to my mind not to do it as it means the slightest hiccup and your home is at risk. It's not for the taxpayer to bail out private homeowners because they've failed to plan for the future properly. Council tennants, on the other hand, have no vested interest in building a slush fund to pay a mortgage because they don't have a mortgage, although they should still save something, however small, for future needs. Granted not everyone can do that but cutting back on a few things will enable anyone to save if they put their minds to it. I just don't think that the govt, via the taxpayer, should be the first port of call in any storm. People need to take responsibility for their own lives and leave govt money for those in real dire need of it. We wouldn't have such a vast welfare bill if that ideaology was applied across the board, would we. | |||
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"Been on this site Three weeks! and this has got to be one of the hottest and interesting topics I have ever read in my life! What with benefit caps, wage caps,council tax payments, housing benefit, JSA payments and now Bloody bedroom tax WTF is going on. "Stick around, we've had some real humdingers in here in the past.  | |||
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"Been on this site Three weeks! and this has got to be one of the hottest and interesting topics I have ever read in my life! What with benefit caps, wage caps,council tax payments, housing benefit, JSA payments and now Bloody bedroom tax WTF is going on.
PMSL yeah i bet.
Stick around, we've had some real humdingers in here in the past. " | |||
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" ........... I just don't think that the govt, via the taxpayer, should be the first port of call in any storm. People need to take responsibility for their own lives and leave govt money for those in real dire need of it. We wouldn't have such a vast welfare bill if that ideaology was applied across the board, would we." We can agree on that at least. I'm sure I said last week that the benefits system should be the safety net of LAST resort. People, where possible, do take responsibility for their own lves but there are a whole bunch of people who simply aren't capable of doing so. | |||
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" ........... People, where possible, do take responsibility for their own lves but there are a whole bunch of people who simply aren't capable of doing so." You're right, many do but I don't think people with mortgages should fall under the Welfare Support umbrella to pay their mortgage for them. You can't claim for credit card payments if you lose your job so why should you be able to claim for mortgage payments? | |||
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" ........... People, where possible, do take responsibility for their own lves but there are a whole bunch of people who simply aren't capable of doing so. You're right, many do but I don't think people with mortgages should fall under the Welfare Support umbrella to pay their mortgage for them. You can't claim for credit card payments if you lose your job so why should you be able to claim for mortgage payments?" you can with PPI  | |||
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" ........... People, where possible, do take responsibility for their own lves but there are a whole bunch of people who simply aren't capable of doing so. You're right, many do but I don't think people with mortgages should fall under the Welfare Support umbrella to pay their mortgage for them. You can't claim for credit card payments if you lose your job so why should you be able to claim for mortgage payments? you can with PPI "It amazes me that people buy a house for hundreds of thousands of pounds and DON'T take out PPI. How crazy is that.  | |||
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" ........... People, where possible, do take responsibility for their own lves but there are a whole bunch of people who simply aren't capable of doing so. You're right, many do but I don't think people with mortgages should fall under the Welfare Support umbrella to pay their mortgage for them. You can't claim for credit card payments if you lose your job so why should you be able to claim for mortgage payments? you can with PPI
It amazes me that people buy a house for hundreds of thousands of pounds and DON'T take out PPI. How crazy is that. "indeed, PPI gets bad press because it was wrongly sold to some. It offers help to a lot who have it through sickness and redundancy | |||
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" ........... People, where possible, do take responsibility for their own lves but there are a whole bunch of people who simply aren't capable of doing so. You're right, many do but I don't think people with mortgages should fall under the Welfare Support umbrella to pay their mortgage for them. You can't claim for credit card payments if you lose your job so why should you be able to claim for mortgage payments?" I suspect, and it's no more than a suspicion, that for years the financial stability of many families was built on the constantly appreciating value of their home. Not to have a backstop in place would have risked undermining confidence in the economy which, when you think about is, is exactly what happened when things began to go tits-up. BTW, it ain't the whole mortgage, just the interest element. | |||
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" BTW, it ain't the whole mortgage, just the interest element. " Yes, I know. Our mortgage lender allows us to take mortgage payment holidays if times are tight, but you have to make it up one way or another later, either by increased payments over the same term period, or extend the loan period by a year. | |||
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" ........... People, where possible, do take responsibility for their own lves but there are a whole bunch of people who simply aren't capable of doing so. You're right, many do but I don't think people with mortgages should fall under the Welfare Support umbrella to pay their mortgage for them. You can't claim for credit card payments if you lose your job so why should you be able to claim for mortgage payments? you can with PPI
It amazes me that people buy a house for hundreds of thousands of pounds and DON'T take out PPI. How crazy is that. "A lots of the mortgages which have gone bad were ninja. It wouldn't have been possible to buy income replacement protection 'cos there was no income to protect. | |||
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" Talking about the last post from the last thread. As normal you bring the party you hate so much into your posts....I am not sure why as the question could be answered without. I don't give a toss what party said what to who....the question was, why do you think one set of people ( morgage payers )who have been working and paying their taxes cannot get the same sort of help as the other set of people who pay rent ? It's all relevant though isn't it. One party says one thing, another says something else, the bottom line is who is affected by it. My prsonal _iew is that private homeowners have more to lose than council tennants and if they've reached a point where they've managed to buy a house then they should be realistic about their finances and build a slush fund for emergencies. It's madness to my mind not to do it as it means the slightest hiccup and your home is at risk. It's not for the taxpayer to bail out private homeowners because they've failed to plan for the future properly. Council tennants, on the other hand, have no vested interest in building a slush fund to pay a mortgage because they don't have a mortgage, although they should still save something, however small, for future needs. Granted not everyone can do that but cutting back on a few things will enable anyone to save if they put their minds to it. I just don't think that the govt, via the taxpayer, should be the first port of call in any storm. People need to take responsibility for their own lives and leave govt money for those in real dire need of it. We wouldn't have such a vast welfare bill if that ideaology was applied across the board, would we." A scenario. A man buys his own house when he has a good job and can afford to have a slush fund. He loses his job and because he doesn't want to go on the dole he takes a lower paid job and uses his slush fund to subsidise. He them loses that job and has to claim JSA. He now gets only JSA and can't get any help with keeping his roof over his head. Another scenario. A person rents a house from a landlord. He loses his job . He gets his rent paid to keep the roof over his head. The rent is paying the Landlords morgage. What is the difference between the two? It seems what you are saying is....if it is a landlords morgage that is getting paid then it is ok....but the person who might end up homeless, then thats tough? | |||
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"You wouldn't drive a car without insurance so why bouse a house without adequate cover for unforeseen circumstances. Madness. " Many years ago we took out insurance protection ....if we had to have the misfortune to claim on it, you had to wait for three months for it to start being paid out. This was a long time ago so I don't know if it has changed now, but it seemed even with insurance you could be in strife straight away if you wasn't fortunate enough to have a slush find. | |||
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" A scenario. A man buys his own house when he has a good job and can afford to have a slush fund. He loses his job and because he doesn't want to go on the dole he takes a lower paid job and uses his slush fund to subsidise. He them loses that job and has to claim JSA. He now gets only JSA and can't get any help with keeping his roof over his head. Another scenario. A person rents a house from a landlord. He loses his job . He gets his rent paid to keep the roof over his head. The rent is paying the Landlords morgage. What is the difference between the two? It seems what you are saying is....if it is a landlords morgage that is getting paid then it is ok....but the person who might end up homeless, then thats tough?" Or, the contingency fund goes before work is found, the property is repossessed and the person declares bankruptcy. | |||
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"You wouldn't drive a car without insurance so why bouse a house without adequate cover for unforeseen circumstances. Madness. Many years ago we took out insurance protection ....if we had to have the misfortune to claim on it, you had to wait for three months for it to start being paid out. This was a long time ago so I don't know if it has changed now, but it seemed even with insurance you could be in strife straight away if you wasn't fortunate enough to have a slush find." That's correct, they usually take 3 months to payout. It's also worth checking if they would pay out at all if your circumstances have changed. For most you have to be working at least 16 hours a week. If you haven't notified of a change it may not pay out at all. | |||
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"I've been down that road myself in the past and it was only because I hauled myself out of it that I'm doing what I'm doing now and happy with a home, wife and three children. I didn't expect the state to foot the bill for me and as soon as they started asking questions about my life I didn't want to answer I decided the dole was something I could live without. I only look down my nose at people who take the piss, but I also _iew people who don't plan for a rainy day as rather stupid individuals." The point you are missing is, what if there is no extra money to save for a rainy day or the rainy day money has been already used. Not everyone is as fortunate as you and us. | |||
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"I've been down that road myself in the past and it was only because I hauled myself out of it that I'm doing what I'm doing now and happy with a home, wife and three children. I didn't expect the state to foot the bill for me and as soon as they started asking questions about my life I didn't want to answer I decided the dole was something I could live without. I only look down my nose at people who take the piss, but I also _iew people who don't plan for a rainy day as rather stupid individuals. The point you are missing is, what if there is no extra money to save for a rainy day or the rainy day money has been already used. Not everyone is as fortunate as you and us."  | |||
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"I know people that have survived through the kindness of others. A no-strings, unequivocal yes when asked for a bail-out. Adding extra to their food shopping and turning up with gifts of food. Cash for Christmas and birthdays. Bless them all but it is only a short-term solution. Some don't have the joy of such friends and family." So they could potentially be three months in areas straight away. If they have a slush fund and use that for the first three months morgage and had no insurance then they still have the next three months to find before they get any help at all. All in all...if they had been rented from a landlord the landlord would be getting it....but if they buy instead they will end up in debt. | |||
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"I've been down that road myself in the past and it was only because I hauled myself out of it that I'm doing what I'm doing now and happy with a home, wife and three children. I didn't expect the state to foot the bill for me and as soon as they started asking questions about my life I didn't want to answer I decided the dole was something I could live without. I only look down my nose at people who take the piss, but I also _iew people who don't plan for a rainy day as rather stupid individuals." Ok what about the 25% of our youth population, i believe if there in rented accomodation they only get so much paid, and as for morgages how on earth are the supposed to have bulit up a nest egg, i think you need a reality check, you need to take a step down from your ivory tower  | |||
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"I've been down that road myself in the past and it was only because I hauled myself out of it that I'm doing what I'm doing now and happy with a home, wife and three children. I didn't expect the state to foot the bill for me and as soon as they started asking questions about my life I didn't want to answer I decided the dole was something I could live without. I only look down my nose at people who take the piss, but I also _iew people who don't plan for a rainy day as rather stupid individuals." Heres a question for you wishy, what would you do (god for bid) if you and siren had some sort of serious accident and neither of you where able to hold down a job again. What would you do then when the "slush" fund starts to drain away. You may have a lovely house right now, it may be paid outright, but what will happen in a few years when renovations need doing, furniture needs replacing. How would you stop your home from starting to look shabby, what would you use to put aside for rainy day money? | |||
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"I know people that have survived through the kindness of others. A no-strings, unequivocal yes when asked for a bail-out. Adding extra to their food shopping and turning up with gifts of food. Cash for Christmas and birthdays. Bless them all but it is only a short-term solution. Some don't have the joy of such friends and family. So they could potentially be three months in areas straight away. If they have a slush fund and use that for the first three months morgage and had no insurance then they still have the next three months to find before they get any help at all. All in all...if they had been rented from a landlord the landlord would be getting it....but if they buy instead they will end up in debt. " arrears * silly fat fingers. | |||
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" All in all...if they had been rented from a landlord the landlord would be getting it....but if they buy instead they will end up in debt. " Well, unless they pay cash for their homes they're in debt already. I would fight tooth and nail to keep my home and a roof over my family's heads. I'd take the shittiest job I could if that was all that was on offer. I don't understand why you're giving me a hard time for wanting others to be responsible for themselves. Whenever we see benefit scroungers in the media the whole bloody country is up in arms about it, but when someone doesn't rely on the state and encourages others to be the same, he's criticised for it. That smacks of double standards to me. | |||
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"I've been down that road myself in the past and it was only because I hauled myself out of it that I'm doing what I'm doing now and happy with a home, wife and three children. I didn't expect the state to foot the bill for me and as soon as they started asking questions about my life I didn't want to answer I decided the dole was something I could live without. I only look down my nose at people who take the piss, but I also _iew people who don't plan for a rainy day as rather stupid individuals. Heres a question for you wishy, what would you do (god for bid) if you and siren had some sort of serious accident and neither of you where able to hold down a job again. What would you do then when the "slush" fund starts to drain away. You may have a lovely house right now, it may be paid outright, but what will happen in a few years when renovations need doing, furniture needs replacing. How would you stop your home from starting to look shabby, what would you use to put aside for rainy day money?" As well as insurance for the house/mortgage we also have other types of insurance against exactly what you have just said. Siren has death in service insurance as a public sector employee, and I have self-employed keyman insurance if case I have a serious injury and cannot work. All that costs us annually the equivalent of one good night out. | |||
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" All in all...if they had been rented from a landlord the landlord would be getting it....but if they buy instead they will end up in debt. Well, unless they pay cash for their homes they're in debt already. I would fight tooth and nail to keep my home and a roof over my family's heads. I'd take the shittiest job I could if that was all that was on offer. I don't understand why you're giving me a hard time for wanting others to be responsible for themselves. Whenever we see benefit scroungers in the media the whole bloody country is up in arms about it, but when someone doesn't rely on the state and encourages others to be the same, he's criticised for it. That smacks of double standards to me." I thought we were having a discussion. If you are uncomfortable with me challenging what you are saying then I won't challenge your posts anymore. | |||
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"I know I'm not a moderator but can we all stop directing comments to Wishy? He is entitled to his opinion. Challenge the opinion, by all means, but not Wishy personally. " I'm used to it lol . Most know I won't take offence and if someone gets directly abusive I just hit the 'report' link. I like having debates on here and I'll be the first to admit I learned something if I read something I didn't know before. | |||
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"I know I'm not a moderator but can we all stop directing comments to Wishy? He is entitled to his opinion. Challenge the opinion, by all means, but not Wishy personally. " Sorry Lickety, but as he is the one people don't seem to be agreeing with, then that will happen. Of course now he has posted that he is not happy with people disagreeing with him, he can always not post his _iews. | |||
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" All in all...if they had been rented from a landlord the landlord would be getting it....but if they buy instead they will end up in debt. Well, unless they pay cash for their homes they're in debt already. I would fight tooth and nail to keep my home and a roof over my family's heads. I'd take the shittiest job I could if that was all that was on offer. I don't understand why you're giving me a hard time for wanting others to be responsible for themselves. Whenever we see benefit scroungers in the media the whole bloody country is up in arms about it, but when someone doesn't rely on the state and encourages others to be the same, he's criticised for it. That smacks of double standards to me. I thought we were having a discussion. If you are uncomfortable with me challenging what you are saying then I won't challenge your posts anymore. " No, it's not that Ruggers, you know me by now. I find it exasperating when all I see are people thinking the state has to pay for every little thing. A person owning their own home has many more freedoms than a council tennant. They have the freedom to choose where they live for example, to live in a much nicer home, to have neighbours they won't have to worry about (hopefully), to have neighbours they can trust with a key while they're on holiday (hopefully). They'll have built something to leave their kids so that they won't have to rely on the state either. All that costs money and when you make that decision, it's more than just the cost of purchasing the bricks and mortar that needs to be taken into consideration. | |||
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"I know I'm not a moderator but can we all stop directing comments to Wishy? He is entitled to his opinion. Challenge the opinion, by all means, but not Wishy personally. I'm used to it lol . Most know I won't take offence and if someone gets directly abusive I just hit the 'report' link. I like having debates on here and I'll be the first to admit I learned something if I read something I didn't know before. " I think you know I like a debate too but what you will accept isn't necessarily how others will read this. One of my staff has to move. I listened to her trying to find somewhere for her and her partner to live today. Before she can even get a _iewing she is being told that rent will be £286 per week for a studio (I think we called them bed-sits back when thee and me were young). Both she and her partner work and earning around the average wage. They are now being asked for 6 weeks deposit and two months in advance. Paying off student loans and surviving in London means they have JUST enough for 4 weeks deposit and nothing else. They have no slush fund at all and can't see how they can build one. They have no hope of saving up and buying a home. What they have is their education, health, youth and a really good work ethic. It's enough for now but if one of them is out of work for a month they are stuffed. More and more find themselves in this position. | |||
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"To wishys posts ( saves me quoting a huge one ) Your last sentance says it all for me....I think this is more about you looking down on people than actually looking at what is being said. We are lucky enough all through our working life to live a nice life....but I am well aware that this could change at any minute....and from some of the things that people have said on here, it can be a bleak exsistance if you happen to end up on the dole We have both worked all our life ( most of my life for me after the kids went to school ) I would hate to be in the position of all our slush fund going and having to stand in front of someone with your attitude while asking for help at the dole queue. I really do hope you never have to live in the real world like a lot of people have mentioned on these threads, as I really can't see you lasting the course." I totally agree with you! A family member of mine is going through some real difficulties just now due to losing a well paid job due to Mental Health issues. They are now facing re-possession of their property, however, if they were in council rented accommodation, they would get their rent paid for them. Surely it would make sense value wise to help them stay in their current home than to force foreclosure on the property and have a higher cost involved when they will have to look into re-housing someone, who could in all essence return to work, once their current problems have been sorted and repay the debt sometime down the line? Just a thought, but some people seem to know how to work the system and others who genuinely fall upon hard times, are left to flounder when they are not equipped in dealing with them. | |||
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"I know I'm not a moderator but can we all stop directing comments to Wishy? He is entitled to his opinion. Challenge the opinion, by all means, but not Wishy personally. Sorry Lickety, but as he is the one people don't seem to be agreeing with, then that will happen. Of course now he has posted that he is not happy with people disagreeing with him, he can always not post his _iews." I think it's because anyone else reading the thread might well read it as a conversation with Wishy and may not want to post. I hope I have been clear when I have not agreed with a _iew expressed but not made comments relate to any specific individual. | |||
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" All in all...if they had been rented from a landlord the landlord would be getting it....but if they buy instead they will end up in debt. Well, unless they pay cash for their homes they're in debt already. I would fight tooth and nail to keep my home and a roof over my family's heads. I'd take the shittiest job I could if that was all that was on offer. I don't understand why you're giving me a hard time for wanting others to be responsible for themselves. Whenever we see benefit scroungers in the media the whole bloody country is up in arms about it, but when someone doesn't rely on the state and encourages others to be the same, he's criticised for it. That smacks of double standards to me. I thought we were having a discussion. If you are uncomfortable with me challenging what you are saying then I won't challenge your posts anymore. No, it's not that Ruggers, you know me by now. I find it exasperating when all I see are people thinking the state has to pay for every little thing. A person owning their own home has many more freedoms than a council tennant. They have the freedom to choose where they live for example, to live in a much nicer home, to have neighbours they won't have to worry about (hopefully), to have neighbours they can trust with a key while they're on holiday (hopefully). They'll have built something to leave their kids so that they won't have to rely on the state either. All that costs money and when you make that decision, it's more than just the cost of purchasing the bricks and mortar that needs to be taken into consideration." Don't get me wrong, I am with you and agree with you that there are lots of people who take the piss and expect everything for nothing...no one is denying that. But there are also people who have worked like you who end up in the shit through no fault of their own. It is all well and good saying people should have a back up plan, but if that back up plan is used and you have no other, then I don't see why after paying tax for years that they can't get help without being classed as a scrounger for doing so. You said on one post that you think it should only be used as a last resort....for some people it is just that and then they are told they can't get the same help as someone else because they dared to buy their own house. I think that is what is double standards. | |||
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"To wishys posts ( saves me quoting a huge one ) Your last sentance says it all for me....I think this is more about you looking down on people than actually looking at what is being said. We are lucky enough all through our working life to live a nice life....but I am well aware that this could change at any minute....and from some of the things that people have said on here, it can be a bleak exsistance if you happen to end up on the dole We have both worked all our life ( most of my life for me after the kids went to school ) I would hate to be in the position of all our slush fund going and having to stand in front of someone with your attitude while asking for help at the dole queue. I really do hope you never have to live in the real world like a lot of people have mentioned on these threads, as I really can't see you lasting the course." The "real world" just happens to be the world that you create for yourself. I totally agree with Wishy's posts on this subject. People have to take more responsibility and use their money better. No one has to have sky TV, the latest mobile phones, ciggies and even cars - they are luxuries and if having them makes you poor then your priorities are all wrong. | |||
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" My prsonal _iew is that private homeowners have more to lose than council tennants and if they've reached a point where they've managed to buy a house then they should be realistic about their finances and build a slush fund for emergencies. It's madness to my mind not to do it as it means the slightest hiccup and your home is at risk. It's not for the taxpayer to bail out private homeowners because they've failed to plan for the future properly. " A study was done many years ago- will try and dig it out - that showed peoples' habits were influenced by the habits of government. Ergo, if governments were borrowing and spending beyond their means then the general populace did as well for it must be the right thing to do Perhaps governments need to rethink and start raising taxes duting good times and building a slush fund and then reducing those taxes during bad times and using their reserves to fund the gap. Governments are short term thinkers - they are always worried about the next election whether it is general, local or by-election, so they are rarely, if ever, going to think what is good for the country long term But ain't gonna happen anytime soon, especially as EC are wanting to get involved in budgetary management for nations and they are the organisation who have not had their accounts signed off for many years now because of imbalances, fraud etc | |||
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" Ok what about the 25% of our youth population, i believe if there in rented accomodation they only get so much paid, and as for morgages how on earth are the supposed to have bulit up a nest egg, i think you need a reality check, you need to take a step down from your ivory tower "OK so now we are absolving the youth of financiual responsibility because everything is expensive? We were all young at one time and we got by - flat sharing, house sharing and working in three different pubs to keep the cash coming in - whatever it took. You do what you have to do to look after your finances and take personal responsibility. | |||
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" Heres a question for you wishy, what would you do (god for bid) if you and siren had some sort of serious accident and neither of you where able to hold down a job again. What would you do then when the "slush" fund starts to drain away. You may have a lovely house right now, it may be paid outright, but what will happen in a few years when renovations need doing, furniture needs replacing. How would you stop your home from starting to look shabby, what would you use to put aside for rainy day money?" I am guessing that they would have long previously cut down unnecessary expenses - sought alternative employment and managed themselves and their finances. | |||
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" No one has to have sky TV, the latest mobile phones, ciggies and even cars - they are luxuries and if having them makes you poor then your priorities are all wrong." That I agree with but then I have never said otherwise. | |||
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" One of my staff has to move. I listened to her trying to find somewhere for her and her partner to live today. Before she can even get a _iewing she is being told that rent will be £286 per week for a studio (I think we called them bed-sits back when thee and me were young). Both she and her partner work and earning around the average wage. They are now being asked for 6 weeks deposit and two months in advance. Paying off student loans and surviving in London means they have JUST enough for 4 weeks deposit and nothing else. They have no slush fund at all and can't see how they can build one. They have no hope of saving up and buying a home. What they have is their education, health, youth and a really good work ethic. It's enough for now but if one of them is out of work for a month they are stuffed. More and more find themselves in this position." Makes you wonder where the entire service supply for the pubs, clubs and Hotels of London live? She has choices where she can live and if she (and her boyfriend) choose somewhere that will virtually take up all of their combined salary - then they are daft. | |||
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" I don't see why after paying tax for years that they can't get help without being classed as a scrounger for doing so." That's the thing about paying tax though. It's not a piggy bank of tax you build up over the years, it's paid and used in the year or two after you pay it. It's for ongoing standards of service provided by the govt that you pay for at the time. Paying tax on what you've earned for 40-odd years doesn't entitle you to something more than someone who's only paid tax for 10 years, or five, or even two. What I'm saying is that homeowners have a vested interest in keeping up the payments on their homes and it is they who have taken the decision to step outside of state assisted accommodation so they cannot, or should not, go back to the taxpayer with a begging bowl when times are hard. | |||
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" One of my staff has to move. I listened to her trying to find somewhere for her and her partner to live today. Before she can even get a _iewing she is being told that rent will be £286 per week for a studio (I think we called them bed-sits back when thee and me were young). Both she and her partner work and earning around the average wage. They are now being asked for 6 weeks deposit and two months in advance. Paying off student loans and surviving in London means they have JUST enough for 4 weeks deposit and nothing else. They have no slush fund at all and can't see how they can build one. They have no hope of saving up and buying a home. What they have is their education, health, youth and a really good work ethic. It's enough for now but if one of them is out of work for a month they are stuffed. More and more find themselves in this position. Makes you wonder where the entire service supply for the pubs, clubs and Hotels of London live? She has choices where she can live and if she (and her boyfriend) choose somewhere that will virtually take up all of their combined salary - then they are daft." Daft they are not. It's a bidding war for rented accommodation in London right now. | |||
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" I don't see why after paying tax for years that they can't get help without being classed as a scrounger for doing so. That's the thing about paying tax though. It's not a piggy bank of tax you build up over the years, it's paid and used in the year or two after you pay it. It's for ongoing standards of service provided by the govt that you pay for at the time. Paying tax on what you've earned for 40-odd years doesn't entitle you to something more than someone who's only paid tax for 10 years, or five, or even two. What I'm saying is that homeowners have a vested interest in keeping up the payments on their homes and it is they who have taken the decision to step outside of state assisted accommodation so they cannot, or should not, go back to the taxpayer with a begging bowl when times are hard." As another has said on this thread, if someone loses their home for lack of money, they could then get rent paid from the goverment , so I suppose it will end up the goverment helping out anyway. I was mentioning the tax thing because they will have paid into the system. Worked because they didn't want to be on the dole, but had to use the state when needed. That is what it is there for. I am just glad we are not in that situation as it must be horrendous. | |||
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".................. What is the difference between the two? It seems what you are saying is....if it is a landlords morgage that is getting paid then it is ok....but the person who might end up homeless, then thats tough?" Tough? That's capitalism. | |||
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" ............. Makes you wonder where the entire service supply for the pubs, clubs and Hotels of London live? .................." Many of them live in tied accommodation - like the nurse who allegedly took her own life after the phone call from the radio station. If a nurse can't afford proper housing within commuting distance of her job, there's something wrong. I mentioned earlier the 'sheds with beds' problem. Garages at the end of the garden converted into bedroom for (mostly) illegal immigrants working for less than the legal minimum wage. | |||
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"Many first time buyers are very vulnerable financially in the early years of their mortgage, they don't have the spare funds out of their wages to plough into 'Slush Funds' as they are barely managing to both pay their new mortgage and cope with rising basic outgoings at the same time....I know we experienced this in the early years of our first mortgage. So to suggest that everybody is automatically able to have 'Rainy Day' savings is a bit of a nonsense. " But that is why and how everything has gone so badly wrong. Modern society has brainwashed people into accepting that they adopt the rat race and exist on a month to month budget that enables people to have luxuries that they can't really afford. In China the pay is very little and the hours very long but ALL Chinese save from the moment they start work and they adapt their lifestyles to suit. They save because it is the only way that they will be looked after in later life. We (as a nation) have lost those core values and this is at least one reason why households have collapsed with the loss of one income. | |||
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"We need trailer parks like they have in the US for state accommodation - nobody should have a council house for life, they promote laziness and irresponsibility and a lack of willingness for people to better themselves." Indeed
Nice breasts by the way | |||
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"We need trailer parks like they have in the US for state accommodation - nobody should have a council house for life, they promote laziness and irresponsibility and a lack of willingness for people to better themselves." Wouldn't the aspiring middle classes then have to make a conscious decision to visit these trailer parks so they can feel superior to the residents whilst at the moment they can do it without too much inconvenience? | |||
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"We need trailer parks like they have in the US for state accommodation - nobody should have a council house for life, they promote laziness and irresponsibility and a lack of willingness for people to better themselves. Wouldn't the aspiring middle classes then have to make a conscious decision to visit these trailer parks so they can feel superior to the residents whilst at the moment they can do it without too much inconvenience?" Come on Onny - the very fundamentals of our existence on this planet are a result of humans being aspirational. It is no bad thing to want more and to want better - it is in our collective DNA. | |||
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"We need trailer parks like they have in the US for state accommodation - nobody should have a council house for life, they promote laziness and irresponsibility and a lack of willingness for people to better themselves. Wouldn't the aspiring middle classes then have to make a conscious decision to visit these trailer parks so they can feel superior to the residents whilst at the moment they can do it without too much inconvenience?" Why don't we just peg everyone back to most the stupid, the dumbest, the laziest and the most inept, and at the same time we'll be stifling creativity, competence, and the desire to do well and achieve. Hello, Mr Orwell, didn't see you sitting there.  | |||
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"Many first time buyers are very vulnerable financially in the early years of their mortgage, they don't have the spare funds out of their wages to plough into 'Slush Funds' as they are barely managing to both pay their new mortgage and cope with rising basic outgoings at the same time....I know we experienced this in the early years of our first mortgage. So to suggest that everybody is automatically able to have 'Rainy Day' savings is a bit of a nonsense. " Then I would suggest they have borrowed beyond their means in a desperate race to get on the property ladder. There's no such thing as a free lunch and if you're silly enough to take out a stupid loan agreement that makes you pay enormous amounts in the first years of your mortgage you only have yourself to blame for that. I come from Luton and it has a very high Asian population, and one thing I've noticed about them is that they help each other out. They'll borrow from each other at rates you'll never find in the high street and set each other up in business with repayments liable only when the business is profitable. We could learn a lot from them both in an economic sense and in nurturing a family environment that seeks to help all. | |||
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"We need trailer parks like they have in the US for state accommodation - nobody should have a council house for life, they promote laziness and irresponsibility and a lack of willingness for people to better themselves. Wouldn't the aspiring middle classes then have to make a conscious decision to visit these trailer parks so they can feel superior to the residents whilst at the moment they can do it without too much inconvenience? Come on Onny - the very fundamentals of our existence on this planet are a result of humans being aspirational. It is no bad thing to want more and to want better - it is in our collective DNA." There's the sort of aspiration where you achieve it by pulling yourself up and, a lot more common, the sort of aspirational where you achieve it by pulling others down. | |||
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"I doubt if there are very many house owners amongst us that never found the early years of their first mortgage very tight.... I am honest ehough to say that we certainly did, it never meant we were borrowing above our means, it meant that circumstances and unforeseen events left us unable to plough money into a 'Slush Fund' for several years when we first started buying... We are reaping the benefits now, but I'm not afraid to admit we had lean times in the early years." Me too. I only have me and my earning power, when the roof went I had no choice but to extend the mortgage. | |||
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" ............. I come from Luton and it has a very high Asian population, and one thing I've noticed about them is that they help each other out. They'll borrow from each other at rates you'll never find in the high street and set each other up in business with repayments liable only when the business is profitable. We could learn a lot from them both in an economic sense and in nurturing a family environment that seeks to help all." Careful, that sound a wee bit left-wing - almost socialist. People helping each other out? Affordable interest rates? Pay me back when you can afford it? Uncle Joe could have written a book about that. | |||
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" ............. I come from Luton and it has a very high Asian population, and one thing I've noticed about them is that they help each other out. They'll borrow from each other at rates you'll never find in the high street and set each other up in business with repayments liable only when the business is profitable. We could learn a lot from them both in an economic sense and in nurturing a family environment that seeks to help all. Careful, that sound a wee bit left-wing - almost socialist. People helping each other out? Affordable interest rates? Pay me back when you can afford it? Uncle Joe could have written a book about that." I think family members should help each other out (I don't mean by lending a cup of sugar here and there though). Maybe we wouldn't be so fractured as a nation if we had strong family ties. | |||
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" ............. I come from Luton and it has a very high Asian population, and one thing I've noticed about them is that they help each other out. They'll borrow from each other at rates you'll never find in the high street and set each other up in business with repayments liable only when the business is profitable. We could learn a lot from them both in an economic sense and in nurturing a family environment that seeks to help all. Careful, that sound a wee bit left-wing - almost socialist. People helping each other out? Affordable interest rates? Pay me back when you can afford it? Uncle Joe could have written a book about that. I think family members should help each other out (I don't mean by lending a cup of sugar here and there though). Maybe we wouldn't be so fractured as a nation if we had strong family ties. " West Indians used to have a pot they called "Partners". Everyone paid in a set amount every week and each week one person got to take out of the pot. The list would rotate. It allowed for planning things like new shoes and school uniforms. If someone had a crisis and needed money urgently then the partners would come together and agree whether that person could have the pot out of turn. | |||
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" ............. .............. West Indians used to have a pot they called "Partners". Everyone paid in a set amount every week and each week one person got to take out of the pot. The list would rotate. It allowed for planning things like new shoes and school uniforms. If someone had a crisis and needed money urgently then the partners would come together and agree whether that person could have the pot out of turn." We call it a manage (pronounced menodge). A group of pals get together and contribute to a kitty. The kitty is allocated to each member in turn - often on their birthday. | |||
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" I mentioned earlier the 'sheds with beds' problem. Garages at the end of the garden converted into bedroom for (mostly) illegal immigrants working for less than the legal minimum wage." have seen families of 5 and 6 people in these things, they are death traps by and large.. and its not only illegals either, extended families are also resorting to this.. | |||
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"I doubt if there are very many house owners amongst us that never found the early years of their first mortgage very tight.... I am honest ehough to say that we certainly did, it never meant we were borrowing above our means, it meant that circumstances and unforeseen events left us unable to plough money into a 'Slush Fund' for several years when we first started buying... We are reaping the benefits now, but I'm not afraid to admit we had lean times in the early years." ditto, we have both been raised by parents with a strong living within ones means etic.. first mortgage we 'dropped' to one full salary and a new baby, things were tight at times even though we had set our limit to the one 'main' wage.. had times when things happened and we used family to help us through them... strongly believe in the family and not just us 2 and our kids, its about all our families looking after each other.. sometimes we all need a bit of a helping hand as stuff happens... thats called life some folk dont have families or close friends, like to think thats called community.. | |||
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" ............. I come from Luton and it has a very high Asian population, and one thing I've noticed about them is that they help each other out. They'll borrow from each other at rates you'll never find in the high street and set each other up in business with repayments liable only when the business is profitable. We could learn a lot from them both in an economic sense and in nurturing a family environment that seeks to help all. Careful, that sound a wee bit left-wing - almost socialist. People helping each other out? Affordable interest rates? Pay me back when you can afford it? Uncle Joe could have written a book about that. I think family members should help each other out (I don't mean by lending a cup of sugar here and there though). Maybe we wouldn't be so fractured as a nation if we had strong family ties. West Indians used to have a pot they called "Partners". Everyone paid in a set amount every week and each week one person got to take out of the pot. The list would rotate. It allowed for planning things like new shoes and school uniforms. If someone had a crisis and needed money urgently then the partners would come together and agree whether that person could have the pot out of turn." Interesting Lickety as I note you referenced this in another post. When I asked my parents they had no clue and had never heard of it. It does sound highly comendable though for those involved. | |||
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" ............. Interesting Lickety as I note you referenced this in another post. When I asked my parents they had no clue and had never heard of it. It does sound highly comendable though for those involved. " I wonder if it was particular to certain Islands? Although I'm not from an island we have connections in Trinny, Barbados and Jamaica. | |||
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" ............. Interesting Lickety as I note you referenced this in another post. When I asked my parents they had no clue and had never heard of it. It does sound highly comendable though for those involved. I wonder if it was particular to certain Islands? Although I'm not from an island we have connections in Trinny, Barbados and Jamaica." We're probably hard faced Leeward Islanders (sorry mum and dad - only yoking) | |||
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