FabSwingers.com forum: Am I the bad one?

By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago

Northampton

You both are

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

"You both are "

Fair one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You absolutely both are

Don't get me wrong what she has done is repugnant but your response to the situation was not the best was it.

I get you might feel validated in doing it but you just stooped yourself to that level. You did something similar for revenge so now your argument is moot.

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

"You absolutely both are

Don't get me wrong what she has done is repugnant but your response to the situation was not the best was it.

I get you might feel validated in doing it but you just stooped yourself to that level. You did something similar for revenge so now your argument is moot. "

Its a little deeper than as I've explained. But thanks for your opinion

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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago

Northampton

If you both cheated it isn’t any deeper.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both as bad as each other by the sounds of it. Sorry to hear about the paternity though, that’s never a nice feeling. If you’ve raised him for 8.5 years it shouldn’t make much difference to your relationship with him. Just cos you’re not the father doesn’t mean you’re not the dad! My step daughters are my own, biologically not but in every other sense they are

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple
over a year ago

Leeds

2 wrongs make a fight.

The mr

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By *ris GrayMan
over a year ago

Dorchester

You are so do you feel better now we've sorted that out for you?

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

Not especially. I feel fucking awful

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

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By *estarossa.Woman
over a year ago

Flagrante

Sounds toxic.

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship. "

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf"

Then get your shit together for your children's sakes.

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By *nkyCplCouple
over a year ago

Northampton

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf

Then get your shit together for your children's sakes."

This!

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By *ris GrayMan
over a year ago

Dorchester

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf

Then get your shit together for your children's sakes."
Exactly its the kids that suffer.

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf

Then get your shit together for your children's sakes.

This! "

I'm doing my best folks, I've only know a few days.

Thank you all for your comments

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By *entlemanrogueMan
over a year ago

Motherwell

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

If you had your suspicions when the eldest was born why didnt you question it or ask for a dna test, as now you have 3 more kids with her, and will always be in each others lives, no matter what.

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

If you had your suspicions when the eldest was born why didnt you question it or ask for a dna test, as now you have 3 more kids with her, and will always be in each others lives, no matter what."

I had no clue at the time, I was swept away with becoming a father. Then twins came less than a year later, they were ill all the time, so I suppose I just didn't realise the differences amongst them.

Don't get me wrong I love kid1, truly I do

It's her hypocrisy that has hurt me so much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf

Then get your shit together for your children's sakes.

This!

I'm doing my best folks, I've only know a few days.

Thank you all for your comments "

It’s gonna take a while to fully sink in so give yourself a bit of a break. As said above, it’s not the child’s fault and I’m sure you’ll do the right thing and carry on being dad to them all.

As for you cheating, I guess you know now that the better choice would have been to talk to your partner when you had suspicions? It’s a lesson learned.

People are being harsh here because on paper it looks like you’re the one who’s split the family so this probably isn’t the place for you to get support which you obviously need. Try asking your gp for counselling, or have a look for a local counselling service so you can get a bit of outside help to get your head straight. And good luck

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

It's her hypocrisy that has hurt me so much "

You've only known for a few days, yet you've been on Fab for a few months...

It sounds like neither of you have covered yourselves in glory, and that you both need to put the children to the front and foremost.

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By *illan-KillashMan
over a year ago

London/Sussex/Surrey/Berks/Hants

Goodies v baddies are the emotional reactions towards each other for what you've done to each other.

Good v bad, right v wrong are not what matters here.

The children you have are all that matters.

Yes, you may not be the paternal father to one of them, but for 8.5 years you have been. Nothing should change that and after 8.5 years, I doubt it will. I doubt your love for him hasn't changed after that revelation.

Do you love him as equally as your 3 other children?

As far as the children are concerned, nothing changes, you and the mothers love should be unwavering, now and for ever.

Children first. Don't put innocents between you. They're children, not ammunition.

Good luck to both of you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"2 wrongs make a fight.

The mr "

Damn. That’s funny, but this nails it!!!

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By *illan-KillashMan
over a year ago

London/Sussex/Surrey/Berks/Hants

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf

Then get your shit together for your children's sakes.

This!

I'm doing my best folks, I've only know a few days.

Thank you all for your comments

As for you cheating, I guess you know now that the better choice would have been to talk to your partner when you had suspicions? It’s a lesson learned.

Wise words.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's some big news to take in. Whether you wanted the relationship to end or not, whether you're also responsible for its demise - you need time to adjust. But your kids have had their world turned upside down through no fault of their own. They need their dad now.

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By *amieLDN22Man
over a year ago

London

You got cheated on and top of that you've been hit that the baby is not yours. That's psychologically devastating to a man. You've decided to retaliate by cheating back which is never the best course of action but sometimes people look for love and attention elsewhere when hurt.

Its best to get counselling and deal with this issue head on. Also you need to sit down with her and see of you're right for each other longterm. No point staying together in a toxic relationship even for kid's sake. Move on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You cheated before you knew, but also you obviously had suspicions (which turned out to be true) and I know what they can do to a relationship.

The best thing you can do is try and move on, don't waste your time hating her or rehashing things. What's done is done.

Concentrate on your kids and on yourself.

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By *edeWoman
over a year ago

the abyss

Two wrongs don't make a right as they say

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By *m_hardMan
over a year ago

Swaffham

The kids might be just fine.

My neighbour and his gf are both divorcees and their kids regularly visit each other having a choice of 3 houses for sleepovers and parties.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You’re both in the wrong to be fair and 2 wrongs don’t make a right. Can’t believe she hid that from you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You're not the bad guy... But as everyone else has pointed out, what you did was wrong

I will give you credit for being honest, next step is to own up to your mistake, be responsible, be accountable. Hopefully it's a lesson learned for the future

Focus on what's important now, your own life outside of the relationship and your kids

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By *atfuckerbristolMan
over a year ago

Wells

I don’t know if there are baddies or goodies here - just humans. It’s a sad tale all round though.

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By *unfunfun xMan
over a year ago

LONDON

Both in the wrong her for hiding she cheated way back, so kinda the trust was broken back then so was always gonna be tough especially on trust, but children involved so it's tough hopefully you can find happiness like your ex partner has.

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By *ansoffateMan
over a year ago

Sagittarius A

You can feel bad about yourself, or your can own your mistakes and make amends for them.

Blame is generally a fruitless game.

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By *m_hardMan
over a year ago

Swaffham

We should all be less judgemental. I know from experience that if you can't help someone you should also try not to hurt them. We must support each other more.

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By *esparate danMan
over a year ago

glasgow

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

Im confused too mate. How did you end up finding out Kid A was not yours when youre the one that got caught playing away

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you should put your own pity party to one side and ask yourself if you feel any different about your son

He is who matters most here

Not you

Not your ex

He's a kid

He needs the best of his Mum and his Dad, not the worst

And imho, whether he is a product of your sperm or not, you will both shape him and his life experience

Being a Dad isn't all about genetics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sometimes, I think we do these things because we know the relationship has come to an end, we just struggle to admit it...

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By *irtyKittenCouple
over a year ago

Southampton

Should have talked her instead of playing away.

She probably thinks you played away before first child now and will use it against you.

Relationships are built on trust, her lying to you all these years is wrong and to me the reason you played away was because you were angry at what she did.

So you are both just as bad, but main thing is to make sure kids don't know real reason as they will not know how to handle it.

So main thing is be there for the kids and make sure that they know you both love them.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

My gut reaction is that you are by far the worst. Here is my reasoning.

It would be a shock to find out that your son was fathered by someone else but after the initial shock you have been his dad for 9 years.

As for the boys mother - you don't tell us any circumstances. She may well have thought that he was yours when you both settled and decided to raise the child together and have more children.

You had 'suspicions' you say. Of what ? If you suspected that your son was not your blood why does that make it o.k. to start having sex outside of the relationship ? Even if you were right, your actions say to me that you care for your ego more than your family by pursuing a 'get even' policy.

You are not even owning what you did and you are blame shifting.

It's as if you are saying - I only fucked around because she had sex with another man nine years ago.

It's not ideal for the children. Hopefully the two of you can think and act like adults and things will settle down either together or not.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Sometimes, I think we do these things because we know the relationship has come to an end, we just struggle to admit it..."

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I think you should put your own pity party to one side and ask yourself if you feel any different about your son

He is who matters most here

Not you

Not your ex

He's a kid

He needs the best of his Mum and his Dad, not the worst

And imho, whether he is a product of your sperm or not, you will both shape him and his life experience

Being a Dad isn't all about genetics "

I should have guessed that was you x. I tend to read upwards

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

This is one of those situations where nobody wins.

I have no idea of the full circumstances and you're clearly hurt and probably a bit shocked. You'll need time to come to terms with everything.

It's really easy for people who aren't going through it to tell you what you should do but very different when it's happening to you.

I hope you can navigat your way through this well and you and your children maintain a good bond.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

Tbh ..it's not really the type of question l'd be asking here but it's each to their own .

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf"

Ouch. I take back some of what I said. You should have given all the info at the start.

Get your custody sorted NOW.

Did she take all the kids ? Have you got the kids ? How many kids does her new bf have ? What kind of man takes on a woman with four kids ?

Is this a true story ?

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By *reyToTheFairiesWoman
over a year ago

Carlisle usually

Just because someone else made bad choices doesn't reduce the bad choices you made.

Don't worry about who was more in the wrong, focus on parenting your kids and living your life better.

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By *ris GrayMan
over a year ago

Dorchester

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf

Ouch. I take back some of what I said. You should have given all the info at the start.

Get your custody sorted NOW.

Did she take all the kids ? Have you got the kids ? How many kids does her new bf have ? What kind of man takes on a woman with four kids ?

Is this a true story ? "
so many questions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf

Ouch. I take back some of what I said. You should have given all the info at the start.

Get your custody sorted NOW.

Did she take all the kids ? Have you got the kids ? How many kids does her new bf have ? What kind of man takes on a woman with four kids ?

Is this a true story ? "

His profile will give you more info

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yoyr both wrong to behave rhe way you have...own your shit your not responsible for her behaviour onky yours

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By *avexxMan
over a year ago

cheshire

youve got to move on but try to keep calm for the kids sake,,, it does sound toxic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

I think it's worth noting here that it is child 1 who has been fathered by another man.

How did you find this out? Is it actually true ( proven by DNA test?) Or is it just a suspicion/rumour or something said to hurt you in spite.

Whatever the answer, you need to cast the information aside and concentrate on your relationship with child 1 of whom you are the only dad they has ever known and they still need you to be that person.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Sorry she deceived u that way u must be devastated! X

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf

Ouch. I take back some of what I said. You should have given all the info at the start.

Get your custody sorted NOW.

Did she take all the kids ? Have you got the kids ? How many kids does her new bf have ? What kind of man takes on a woman with four kids ?

Is this a true story ?

His profile will give you more info

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Also start looking for baby sitters

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By *elix SightedMan
over a year ago

Cloud 8

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

OP, I’m curious - how do either of you absolutely know that the 8 year old isn’t yours? Is it possible that she found out about your infidelity and used that ‘fact’ as ammunition to hurt you?

Is it possible he is actually your kiddie? And I mean that genetically because, after 8 years, you are his parent. I don’t have kids and couldn’t begin to understand the internal conflict you’re experiencing, but it’s your influence that shapes what kind of person he will be.

What a mess!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP please think about sleeping with people whilst your kids are there - that's a risky thing to do if they wake up and they're already confused enough surely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

While I have some sympathy for the shock and inner turmoil you must be experiencing, having read your profile - for the love of all that is holy, stop fucking randoms with your kids in the house, regardless of whether they’re asleep or not.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

O.P.

What ever is happening right now try to put yourself on a path that is going to be best for you and your children.

Don't muck about on sites like this , meeting strangers and letting them into your home.

Get yourself some advice from societies that care about men and their families and join some men's groups where they have similar experiences and can support you.

Your todge is not the priority here.

First the kids

And equal first you cos they need a happy healthy dad.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"youve got to move on but try to keep calm for the kids sake,,, it does sound toxic"

Britney !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

There's no "baddie" from what I've read.

Just people making mistakes, and not having the bollocks to admit to it.

How long were you in a relationship before kid1 was conceived? Or Was the pregnancy the catalyst for you both getting into the relationship?

You did something to get your own back, you know it wasn't a good decision, which is why you put up a post.

Also, did you find out who the original dad was? Because you may love that child like it's your own, but the dad and child have a right to know the truth.

If you found out you had a child after 9 years of not knowing they existed, how would you feel?

Finally, don't sit and dwell on the past, don't think about who is right and wrong, it won't change or achieve anything.

Do what you can to support your 4 kids. You'll build yourself back up, get stronger mentally and physically, (they often work hand in hand imo).

You'll find someone out there for you. Use the whole experience as a lesson, don't make the same mistakes, and learn to be more communicative with your new partner when you get one, but find the fine like of becoming more communicative and not using them as an emotional dump.

Take it easy mate

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

Tbh ..it's not really the type of question l'd be asking here but it's each to their own ."

I have literally no one else to talk to about it, unless they're 8 or under. That wouldn't be appropriate

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

Tbh ..it's not really the type of question l'd be asking here but it's each to their own .

I have literally no one else to talk to about it, unless they're 8 or under. That wouldn't be appropriate "

Please find some Dad's groups. I don't mean a bunch of blokes who hang out but a group set up to help single dads...

Don't be alone in this.

and put your cock away for some time.... a fuck isn't going to make you feel whole....

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

There's no "baddie" from what I've read.

Just people making mistakes, and not having the bollocks to admit to it.

How long were you in a relationship before kid1 was conceived? Or Was the pregnancy the catalyst for you both getting into the relationship?

You did something to get your own back, you know it wasn't a good decision, which is why you put up a post.

Also, did you find out who the original dad was? Because you may love that child like it's your own, but the dad and child have a right to know the truth.

If you found out you had a child after 9 years of not knowing they existed, how would you feel?

Finally, don't sit and dwell on the past, don't think about who is right and wrong, it won't change or achieve anything.

Do what you can to support your 4 kids. You'll build yourself back up, get stronger mentally and physically, (they often work hand in hand imo).

Take it easy mate

Kid1 was conceived in the june/July, we'd gotten together in the February. I worked away, there were 2 possible dates for conception with me..... She lied to all the medicals too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I understand how hurtful it must of been to find out about your son,and the lies your partner has told you. Being so deceitful about such an important person in your life is the absolute pits. I'm so sorry.

But... cheating isn't the answer. I do understand why you did it though, as it's a reaction that a lot of people do when you've been hurt by a loved one, but that's just a road to self destruction, and destroying your relationship.

Stop the cheating, take a step away from here, and have lots of talking sessions with your partner.

Good luck to you.

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By *esparate danMan
over a year ago

glasgow

Did i miss the part where you explained how you found out your boy isnt your boy in the biblical sense

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Did i miss the part where you explained how you found out your boy isnt your boy in the biblical sense "

Cue - Outer Limits Theme Tune ....

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

[Removed by poster at 10/04/23 10:10:18]

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"I just found out that my firstborn son, was in fact fathered by someone else.

That was 8.5 years ago, and a further 3 kids with her.

I had my suspicions, and started to play away after lock downs. I got found out, and she separated from me based on a "lack of trust"

I'm very confused at the moment... Am I the baddie here?

Having read your profile... yes!

You need to stop being so bloody selfish and put the needs of your children above your physical desires.

Nita

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

It's her hypocrisy that has hurt me so much

You've only known for a few days, yet you've been on Fab for a few months...

It sounds like neither of you have covered yourselves in glory, and that you both need to put the children to the front and foremost. "

We initially split in October

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

The only person you can change is yourself.

I would advise finding real world outlets for processing what's happening to you - and focusing on the needs of your children.

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

"Sounds like neither of you are happy in your relationship.

So.. you could split up, sort your shit out or both agree to have an open relationship.

Oh she left me and has already moved in with her new bf

Ouch. I take back some of what I said. You should have given all the info at the start.

Get your custody sorted NOW.

Did she take all the kids ? Have you got the kids ? How many kids does her new bf have ? What kind of man takes on a woman with four kids ?

Is this a true story ? "

I am looking after my girl and youngest son in our family home.

He's a nice bloke, amd he doesn't have any kids.

I'm very sorry to say that this is not fictional, I wish it was

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

Thank you all equally for your criticism and kind words

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By *oreplayNfucking OP Man
over a year ago

llandrindod

"While I have some sympathy for the shock and inner turmoil you must be experiencing, having read your profile - for the love of all that is holy, stop fucking randoms with your kids in the house, regardless of whether they’re asleep or not."

I haven't been with anyone other than her in our home

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By *hroatQueen_CATV/TS
over a year ago

Carlisle

You have lowered yourself to her level which is immature, But i can understand why you would be angry too. Kids ain't a weapon and it's always them who seem to suffer! You made a mistake and human so learn from it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People can be very good at fucking each other up. Sometimes life is just a bit shit and what happens, happens. We just have to do better going forwards. Good luck getting it all together with however that works for you.

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By *batMan
over a year ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

"I'm very confused at the moment..."

I don't think this is the best environment for finding your way through your confusion. Speak to real people rather than anonymous *forumites.

Speak to a marriage counsellor, trusted friends, perhaps a religious leader if that's your thing.

Gbat

*forumites. I KNOW you're real people, but some will give a considered response whilst others won't. The OP will not know which is which!

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