FabSwingers.com forum: growing up poor

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Has anyone watched this on the BBC? Also on iPlayer

Should simply be called growing up! How is smoking cigs constantly. Having flat screen tellys and flock wallpaper living in poverty?!?

They don't know they have it made, handed on a plate. I'm shocked the BBC allowed them to produce this. Granted I felt sorry for the wee Glaswegian lass with no cooker but Give up the fags if your that skint!

The producer was obviously from a well off background unlike most others who lives through the 70s

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has anyone watched this on the BBC? Also on iPlayer

Should simply be called growing up! How is smoking cigs constantly. Having flat screen tellys and flock wallpaper living in poverty?!?

The producer was obviously from a well off background unlike most others who lives through the 70s "

You touched upon the BBC allowing 'them' to make this. Who do you think 'they' get 'their' mandate from?

It isn't the programme producer who is out of touch and (probably) from a well off background, it's the leftist brigade in charge of the BBC who want a poor person who gets people's backs up. A standard poor person who offers nothing exciting to a progamme maker will always be passed over in favour of a chav with a big TV who chain smokes moaning about being poor, and more than likeley in a Scottish or Sarf Lundun accent.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

tis one shot. One from Yorkshire and one from south. Interestingly they seemed poorer the further north. this is just sensationalist tv, similiar to the scheme couple of years back. It was the producers CHose to make this shit for Yorkshire tv. O just thought it totally unrepresentive of actual poverty on the UK which is rife.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Poverty has always been part of the spice of life and always will be for the simple reason that some folk are just too damn fucking lazy to get off their arses and make their own way in the world (I nealy said 'help themselves' there but then I thought they already are helping themselves!)

Any attempt to make people equal is doomed to failure because people aren't equal. They never have been and never will be. There are winners in life and there are losers too. Having the smarts to get on and do well is not inherant in everyone, you are born with the capacity to succeed and those who don't have it are born to be losers. Sure you could take a kid from a deprived background and put him in a great school and he'll do well, but only if he has that 'success' gene. If you leave a kid with that gene in a bad school he'll still do well in life. Without the genetics to do well, a kid won't succeed no matter what school you put him in.

Policies aimed at equalising the population are merely neutralising the cleverest to drag them back to the level of the weakest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We dont have genuine poverty problem really in this country or any in the west, If you look at all these so called poor familys all have flat screen tv, mobile phones smokes fags designers clothes, they arent using hand me downs clothes,lets be honest with the benefits system in this country is enough to clothe and feed you, so its miss spent money and commercialism as people believe they have to have the latest tv or tablet computer, example a single parent with 3 kids at christmas spent more money than we did and we both work , she bought a tablet for her daughter at 5 yrs old, and all the rest got hundreds of pounds spent on them,

the other month my brother a registered piss head phoned me up asking what im doing, he was going to town with his kids and ex going to buy some clothes have a pub lunch , then they was of out for the night, we couldnt afford that,

Poverty my ass

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

What are you on about, "leftist agenda"? It's the right that loves to see the poor as idle scroungers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if i start on this one im gonna get so mad - struggling to have any extras here and i work - but not on the poverty line i can afford food and bills ............just - have been far worse off in the past

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What are you on about, "leftist agenda"? It's the right that loves to see the poor as idle scroungers. "

The right see them for what they really are, a drain on the system. It's the left that want to show them as victims of some secretive right-wing agenda to sweep them from _iew.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Wtf no poverty in UK or west! Wise up and open your eyes.I remember a recent thread about food banks used by fab members. i like many others have to chose weekly to either pay my gas and leccy or buy food. One or the other!

I have about a grand a month. 700 of this goes to rent as the bloody council sell all property to housing groups who charge 900 a month to live In a shitty tenement. Without benefit paying the extra 200 a month id be fucked.

My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real.

I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh.

Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse.

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By *oulou45Woman
over a year ago

Bucks

"Wtf no poverty in UK or west! Wise up and open your eyes.I remember a recent thread about food banks used by fab members. i like many others have to chose weekly to either pay my gas and leccy or buy food. One or the other!

My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real.

I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh.

Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse.

"
well said. I work my arse off and at the end of the mth I wonder why

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By *ub bbwWoman
over a year ago

oldbury

well if these people are poor and have all this then i must be below the poverty line.

I have an old style cathode ray tv that i got off freecycle i live off £20 a week on food and pay my bills and rent yes im on benefits at the moment but because i lost a child i have no dependants and am expected tofind somewhere to live that costs £240 a month if i dont want to top my rent up i pay out the rest from my dole money i am looking for work and plan on taking whatever i can find. But if these people can live like this it does make me wonder how when i struggle to make ends meet even when im working. I dont smoke i dont drink i just live on basic essentials but i get through so maybe i am poor i dont think of myself as poor tho

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real.

I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh.

Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse.

but your not poor, you can afford housing and food and also to but the goods and services to go online,

Poor in my eyes means poor, struggling to clothe and starving, living in sqaulor or on the streets,

modern homes and and gadgets doesnt make you poor

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

but your not poor, you can afford housing and food and also to but the goods and services to go online,

Poor in my eyes means poor, struggling to clothe and starving, living in sqaulor or on the streets,

modern homes and and gadgets doesnt make you poor "

i think theres a difference between being poor and living in poverty, in my eye people on benifits who reply on free school meals and clothing vouchers are poor, living on the streets is living in poverty

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real.

I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh.

Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse.

but your not poor, you can afford housing and food and also to but the goods and services to go online,

Poor in my eyes means poor, struggling to clothe and starving, living in sqaulor or on the streets,

modern homes and and gadgets doesnt make you poor "

I'm not poor in relation to others however I do live in poverty. Faced with a choice of whether to heat my home or feed myself. Many others are worse off granted. My statement was in reply to others seemingly in denial that there is any poverty in this country. we give billions in aid to India, Ireland and many other countries, countries whivh has a higher proportion of billionaires than the UK, yet we can barely provide an adequate standard of living to the bulk of the population. Hands up who wasted a quid a couple of years back on a Make Poverty History wristband?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not poor in relation to others however I do live in poverty. Faced with a choice of whether to heat my home or feed myself."

stop paying your internet connection, you could do both then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I must admit if I got rid of sky, two contract mobiles, the phone and broadband I could pay the leccie bill much easier. But I like them better so it will always be last :P

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm not poor in relation to others however I do live in poverty. Faced with a choice of whether to heat my home or feed myself.

stop paying your internet connection, you could do both then

I need to be online to work (and perv granted) or else I'd be a sponging waster eating up your taxes

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By *illdeeCouple
over a year ago

nr Edinburgh

I've lived with my 2 kids on my own for 15 years now. Like you had to pay greedy scum landlords for a roof over our head. While very 3rd house in our town belongs to some person from elsewhere as their charming holiday home. Credit all shot to f**k and no material possesions to show for it.

But you know what? I know I'm richer than any of these Tory scum who prey on the poor and have no idea what life is like down here.

Both my kids, 1 at Uni, other going in September have grown up with values and don't look down their nose at others. Which is much more than can be said for some of the forumites here!

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

There is a certain person who posted above that def has an agenda against the poor, sick etc and agrees that robbing the poor to give to the already very wealthy is ok as every post he has on the subjects proves, he also thinks to speak out for sick etc makes you a lefty he has no compassion and defends the greed of the multi nationals.

The BBC is claimed to be right wing/ left wing depending on what your _iews are, to my unblinkered _iew it is impartial as it reports against and for both, the daily Scum which tis person also loves so much is another thing

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I know a lot of people who grew up poor and some of them are now, the worst ever snobs...

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By *almh5Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Stores like Brighthouse have a lot to answer for when it comes to making benefit claimants and the like better off than they actually are...

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By *r and Mrs SnogalotCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Do people really think there is no true poverty in the UK? If you do can I live in your society - it is a hell of a lot better than the one that I know exists all over the UK.

Do you really think that everyone on benefits wants to be, could get a job if they wanted to?

The Media is doing exactly what this government want, depicting those on welfare as cheating scoundrels that live a better life than those who work. Why? They are introducing changes to the welfare system that are worrying not just for those on benefits but also for those that work with them.

Shy

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

[Removed by poster at 11/01/13 13:40:44]

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

yeah all those waster, scrounging, loosers working full time for tax avoiding global corps for their state benefit money.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

I did feel a little sorry for the girl from Glasgow on the programme I did not see the whole programme but from what I did see she was willing to work and wants but cant afford to go into further education, I believe given a better start she would done ok.

To some above but for the grace of God.

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester

Henry Ford once said "I need those poor people standing by the gates of my factories, it helps remind those inside who are complaining about the bad pay and long hours that there is someone outside who is prepared to do their job for even less money and work longer hours".

The system is skewed in favour of a few at the expense of the many, to stop anyone getting wise to this fact governments are busy using spin and mis-direction to have everyone fight amongst themselves and ignoring their part in all of this.

The poor in this country have little compared to the rich, and waffling on about flat screen tv and other so called "luxuries" is not an example of them being lazy and feckless, try sitting at home and watching the wallpaper for a few evenings, you will see that the TV is a necessity and a respite from the mind numbing boredom of being stuck at home without money and the ability to go out and enjoy yourself when yopu want. The governemts own figures show an extra 1100 people entering this country every week, so where are they going and what are they doing for money?. Little has been said about the number of immigrants who can legally claim benefits after 6 months despite never having paid into the benefit system. Even less is being done about the number of immigrants from the EU who work here unaccompanied but can still claim child benefit for kids back in their home country.

The government is supposed to be representatives of the people that voted them into power, instead they seem to be inept beurocratic idiots who keep looking to finding a scapegoat to blame for their mishandling of the country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suppose it all depends on what the definition of "poor" is. I was in ambulance services in 3 different counties and their cities, and have been in thousands of homes. I have seen and heard on many occasions a mother tell their kids to "put on their poor clothes" before being taken to the hospital, because they know the child social worker will be present.

I have to say, that the only truly poor peoples' homes I have been in to, in my opinion, are inhabited by the elderly.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".........The BBC is claimed to be right wing/ left wing depending on what your _iews are, to my unblinkered _iew it is impartial as it reports against and for both, the daily Scum which tis person also loves so much is another thing"

Auntie will always be perceived as biased against the government of the day because of its requirement to to be seen to be impartial in the face of the government's (whichever complexion) greater automatic access to media coverage.

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

"Henry Ford once said "I need those poor people standing by the gates of my factories, it helps remind those inside who are complaining about the bad pay and long hours that there is someone outside who is prepared to do their job for even less money and work longer hours".

I dont think the govt is mishandling anything. They are representing the big business and banking interests they are there to represent. People tend to delude themselves that the govt is there to represent them. The govt clearly hates the people, it has attacked,undermigned and villified doctors, nurses, fire services, police, pensioners, the unemployed, teachers, the disabled and anyone else claiming any benefit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" But you know what? I know I'm richer than any of these Tory scum who prey on the poor and have no idea what life is like down here.

Both my kids, 1 at Uni, other going in September have grown up with values and don't look down their nose at others. Which is much more than can be said for some of the forumites here!"

Richer? No you're not. Anyway, who in their right mind wants to know what life's like down at the poor end if they're used to living in comfort?

It's not the job of the rich to pay for you. Build your own pile like a lot of hardworking people have (who have also paid far more in tax than you ever will). As for your kids not looking down their noses at people, well, when they get used to earnign well (assuming that's why you wanted them to go to Uni) they'll soon get quite defensive of their comfortable life if anyone criticises it, probably along the lines of: "we're from a working class background and have had to fight all the way to get where we are so we're entitled to it".

You see, I don't know anyone who would give up wealth and comfort for a life of struggling to make ends meet just so they could wear their red rosette with smug satisfaction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The governemts own figures show an extra 1100 people entering this country every week, so where are they going and what are they doing for money?. "

Do those figures also show how many people are leaving to return to their home countries? Or how many Brits are emmigrating for a life somewhere else?

What are the net figures of additional people in this country?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The governemts own figures show an extra 1100 people entering this country every week, so where are they going and what are they doing for money?.

Do those figures also show how many people are leaving to return to their home countries? Or how many Brits are emmigrating for a life somewhere else?

What are the net figures of additional people in this country?"

It ain't like Harriers. We count them in (the legal ones anyway) but we don't count them out.

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

If you are a thick unimaginative cunt life is all about the accumalation of money and posessions. If you believe thats why you were born then in my eyes you live your life in poverty.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

" .......You see, I don't know anyone who would give up wealth and comfort for a life of struggling to make ends meet just so they could wear their red rosette with smug satisfaction."

It's perfectly possible to have both wealth and comfort whilst helping those who are struggling.

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

London and Cheshire

The way I look at it is the worse that could happen to me in the UK is that I have to live in a council house and claim benefits, not so bad. Better than living on a $1 a day in Africa or India...now that's poor!

But It's all in the hands of the person. I grew up in a working class family and so did H, we weren't skint but lived in social housing and left school with a couple of CSE's. We got married and had poorly paid jobs, but scrapped by with our 2 children..when the penny dropped, lets do something about it! So with 2 children in tow we gave up work to start University, this made it even harder, less money, but working in the local working mens club to gain extra money. After finishing uni we got good jobs and the rest is history.

So the lesson is to get off your arse and do something about it, nobody will do it for you.

PS we give a lot to charity on a monthly basis (both of us have our own) H uses a local children's charity, but I will NOT give to any UK charity as I believe, that REAL poverty is ONLY in 3rd world countries, where they have no choices to get out of their plight!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Right, there are genuine cases for people struggling but not that much for poverty, lets be honest here, I struggle to make ends meet and we both work and are gratefull of the assistance we get from child tax, but with out it we could manage, if we canmcelled phone contracts sky, internet smoking and drinking, which lets be right are all luxuries designer clothes and gadgets luxuries,

As for not all people on benefits are laxy scroungers il agree, but the last few goverments have made it easy for lazy so and so,s to do nothing and get paid quit handsomely for doing nothing,

we have a friend with a daughter who doesnt want to work and her bf, yet they can afford to smoke buy the latest ps3 games, internet, yet moan they struggle and have no money ffs and there a full culture just like them, with a attitude i cant afford to work because of all the benefits they are on, i heard it myself so its not a miff, they are even trying for a baby, yet have no income no work and not looking, why because they get more money and she wont have to work, lazy bone idle sinmple has, theyve not saved for the new born why?? because they know they get a big handout of the goverment and family will make sure they dont need anything for the baby selfish and lazy,

why should we as tax payers keep paying taxes for the lazy lay abouts, to just rob the system, they even went as far to blame a death in the family to claim depression so they can get more money,

thats what this country is coming too, too many lazy so and so,s who wont work, there is plenty of work around, yet you speak to alot of employers and they struggle to find people to do the jobs, as most people think its below them, so if it wasnt for some of the foriegners coming in the work wouldnt be done, in the past londerers and others travelled to stay on farms to do crops for the summer months whole families, now them same farms depend on foriegn workers because our own wont do it as they are lazy or think its below them to do menial tasks, everyday there jobs in the jobcentre,s but our own wont do the work or the hours, tut tut we have created a lazy state

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you are a thick unimaginative cunt life is all about the accumalation of money and posessions. If you believe thats why you were born then in my eyes you live your life in poverty."

I'll remind nyself of that this evening as I settle down with a nice brandy after the kids are in bed.... and then promptly forget about anyone outside who would steal my stuff given the opportunity. I've been on skid row and nobody helped me out, least of all the govt, so fuck em is my attitude these days, but hey, feel free to be as philanthropic as you want.

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By *almh5Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

The ONS's stats released in November showed that net migration in 2011 was about 180,000. But students coming to the UK to study are included in that figure of which there are 10's of thousands which brings billions to the UK economy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do people really think there is no true poverty in the UK? If you do can I live in your society - it is a hell of a lot better than the one that I know exists all over the UK.

Do you really think that everyone on benefits wants to be, could get a job if they wanted to?

Shy"

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".......but I will NOT give to any UK charity as I believe, that REAL poverty is ONLY in 3rd world countries, where they have no choices to get out of their plight! "

That's quite the most blinkered attitude to povery I've read here - and there are some SERIOUSLY blinkered attitudes on Fab.

NO real poverty in the UK? Nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone who reduces themselves to referring to any other human being as scum cannot really be taken seriously.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For anyone who wants to understand poverty they need to get of cozy Europe and see how your fellow human beings exist in parts of Africa and Asia.

There is very little real poverty in Europe because social welfare a are in place to prevent catastrophic poverty.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

[Removed by poster at 11/01/13 18:19:01]

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I would guess for everyone with good fortune looking down on the less well off, there are more looking back with bitterness and jealousy.

Not everyone who has worked hard and achieved is heartless, the same as those without are not all scroungers and takers.......

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Anyone who reduces themselves to referring to any other human being as scum cannot really be taken seriously."

You mean it's a bit like 'pleb' in that regard?

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By *f3_coupleCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum."

Can't we use them as winter fuel to keep the elderly warm?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone who reduces themselves to referring to any other human being as scum cannot really be taken seriously.

You mean it's a bit like 'pleb' in that regard?"

Why? Has someone being calling people plebs then?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances."

So whose job is it to protect these children from the worst effects of poverty?

Not, I hasten to add, whose job SHOULD it be, whose job is it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances."

I remember Gordon Brown trying to say it was his mission to ensure every child IN THE WORLD could read & write. He said it was his duty ro eradicate poverty.

I wonder if he still feels it's his mission since he left No.10. He's been pretty quiet since then.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances.

So whose job is it to protect these children from the worst effects of poverty?

Not, I hasten to add, whose job SHOULD it be, whose job is it?"

It SHOULD be their parents but some just aren't capable and if they are working and are having to make choices about food, clothes or heating then I want to help those children through a societal/state response.

However, I also think we have had a period in society where we have bred a generation of people who have remained infantalised for too long. The post about the young woman and her boyfriend being too lazy to fend for themselves and PLANNING a child makes me just as angry at their parents as it does them.

As children become older they should be taught a work ethic and that things cost money. When they become adults charge them rent. Stop treating them as helpless children and bailing them out all the time.

I have a friend I love dearly but she is still supporting her sons who are in their mid and late twenties and acting like children. I see it more and more and I despair that these will be the people we have to count on as we age.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances.

So whose job is it to protect these children from the worst effects of poverty?

Not, I hasten to add, whose job SHOULD it be, whose job is it?"

That's too much of a loaded question to answer it with the only answer you want to hear.

It is the parent's job to protect their children from the effects of poverty, but if they can't protect themselves from it they're not likely to pay much attention to their children escaping it. So it falls to the taxpayer to bail them out, and that's right and proper, but it shouldn't be a catch all scenario where people on lowe or no income can adopt the attitude that they can continue breeding knowing full well that Joe Public will pick up the tab. It should be a shame to be on welfare, not a right.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances.

I remember Gordon Brown trying to say it was his mission to ensure every child IN THE WORLD could read & write. He said it was his duty ro eradicate poverty.

I wonder if he still feels it's his mission since he left No.10. He's been pretty quiet since then."

I'm not sure how that links to my post but I recognise that no one person can eradicate poverty or ensure that every child in the world is literate. I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"What are you on about, "leftist agenda"? It's the right that loves to see the poor as idle scroungers. "

Absolutely right! And it's sheep who follow, blissfully ignorant and allowing themselves and their fellow man/woman to be walked all over, whilst the rich get ever richer. Slavery wasn't abandoned, just made more commonplace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too."

Absolutely. My core belief is that education is the key to humanity moving forward. It starts in the playground at age 5 and from that age children should be taught about tolerance and helping those in need, but they should also be taught that living off the state is no way to live.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Poverty is relative in many cases. My bottom line is that in this developed world we live in children should be protected from the worst effects of poverty. They did not choose their circumstances.

So whose job is it to protect these children from the worst effects of poverty?

Not, I hasten to add, whose job SHOULD it be, whose job is it?

That's too much of a loaded question to answer it with the only answer you want to hear.

I agree with what you are saying but not the word shame. What is wrong with having dignity? Raising a child aware of the "shame" of being on a benefit of some sort smacks of a Dickensian novel. We are already walking into the language of the deserving and undeserving poor. My argument is that children should not be tarred with this.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too.

It start at home from the moment the child arrives back from the maternity hospital.

By the age of 5 even the Jesuits accept the damage is done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too.

It start at home from the moment the child arrives back from the maternity hospital.

By the age of 5 even the Jesuits accept the damage is done."

I'll not take too much notice of a bunch of people who believe that the purpose of their faith is to promote it by any means neccessary, and who actively seek to undermine other religions by surplanting it with their own.

I deliberately said 'age 5' as we were talking about structured education and if we want a structured programme to tackle ignorance via education then it has to be at school, as not all parents are capable or willing to do it at home.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too.

It start at home from the moment the child arrives back from the maternity hospital.

By the age of 5 even the Jesuits accept the damage is done.

ALL education begins in the home. Passing the buck to teachers is a cop-out.

All parents are capable, save those with mental incapacity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would hope that the vast majority of us can see the value of ensuring that all children in the world are able to read and write and see that as a way of eradicating poverty too.

It start at home from the moment the child arrives back from the maternity hospital.

By the age of 5 even the Jesuits accept the damage is done.

ALL education begins in the home. Passing the buck to teachers is a cop-out.

All parents are capable, save those with mental incapacity."

I'll remind you of your should/does question you posed earlier.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

ondering how long before we here mention of the workhouse etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ondering how long before we here mention of the workhouse etc "

You just mentioned it.

What's so wrong with a community type order that forces people to earn their keep?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"ALL education begins in the home. Passing the buck to teachers is a cop-out.

All parents are capable, save those with mental incapacity."

Mental incapacity covers such a lot. You can be very well educated and bright but not have a loving bone in your body. AND be a parent.

I used to work with someone who loved her children, in her way, but she was always so busy and career oriented that she would forget to pick them up from school if she was in work mode. She came into work one day saying that she'd just found out her seven year old son could read. She just had noticed that he was developing. Mental incapacity? No one would say so if they met her but yet...

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"ondering how long before we here mention of the workhouse etc

You just mentioned it.

What's so wrong with a community type order that forces people to earn their keep?"

Why not just have them cutting sugar in the West Indes?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

sometimes education doesnt help, now a days children are taught very early about drugs and contraception, but yet the use of drugs is rising and the lack of use of contraception is a major factor of the rise in S,T,D and teenage pregnancy, The daughter we was talking about comes from a family home un broken both parents value work and encouraged it, and are working class and educated , Yet she still chose the easy option, at some point the goverment has to take the blame for helping the lazy become lazy and sponge of the tax payer

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"ALL education begins in the home. Passing the buck to teachers is a cop-out.

All parents are capable, save those with mental incapacity.

Mental incapacity covers such a lot. You can be very well educated and bright but not have a loving bone in your body. AND be a parent.

There are always perfect examples and exceptions.

The bottom line is that if a child doesn't know the basics of right v wrong by the time they reach 5, they never will.

You only have to glance into the school playground to tell which are which.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"sometimes education doesnt help, now a days children are taught very early about drugs and contraception, but yet the use of drugs is rising and the lack of use of contraception is a major factor of the rise in S,T,D and teenage pregnancy, The daughter we was talking about comes from a family home un broken both parents value work and encouraged it, and are working class and educated , Yet she still chose the easy option, at some point the goverment has to take the blame for helping the lazy become lazy and sponge of the tax payer "

Education ALWAYS helps. People will still make poor choices but education is always better than ignorance - no matter how prevalent ignorance is in our society.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"ondering how long before we here mention of the workhouse etc

You just mentioned it.

What's so wrong with a community type order that forces people to earn their keep?

Why not just have them cutting sugar in the West Indes?"

Most of it is in Mauritius now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ondering how long before we here mention of the workhouse etc

You just mentioned it.

What's so wrong with a community type order that forces people to earn their keep?

Why not just have them cutting sugar in the West Indes?"

It's a job isn't it?

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

"Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum.

Can't we use them as winter fuel to keep the elderly warm?"

Actually this is my post dripping with sarcasm and a mimic of the sort of vile unenlightened comments you regularly see from the same hideous people whenever this sort of topic comes up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 11/01/13 20:06:38]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum.

Can't we use them as winter fuel to keep the elderly warm?

Actually this is my post dripping with sarcasm and a mimic of the sort of vile unenlightened comments you regularly see from the same hideous people whenever this sort of topic comes up."

Surely you mean the cunts of this world?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Back in the days my family were so poor we used the old outdoor clay plumbing pipes stuffed with straw as pillows and ate gravel mixed with water instead of baked beans ,,how things change with time

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum.

Can't we use them as winter fuel to keep the elderly warm?

Actually this is my post dripping with sarcasm and a mimic of the sort of vile unenlightened comments you regularly see from the same hideous people whenever this sort of topic comes up.

Surely you mean the cunts of this world?"

He's probably too polite to say Tories - but we know what he means.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah we should send the army in and get rid of all the poor lazy scum.

Can't we use them as winter fuel to keep the elderly warm?

Actually this is my post dripping with sarcasm and a mimic of the sort of vile unenlightened comments you regularly see from the same hideous people whenever this sort of topic comes up.

Surely you mean the cunts of this world?

He's probably too polite to say Tories - but we know what he means."

No, he's not polite, he said cunts earlier. I think he said Tories too.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"...........

Surely you mean the cunts of this world?

He's probably too polite to say Tories - but we know what he means.

No, he's not polite, he said cunts earlier. I think he said Tories too.

They're pretty much interchangeable nowadays.

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

There really are only 3 reasons for poverty in 21st century Britain.

1. Stupidity

2. Laziness

3. Irresponsibility.

Eradicate all 3 and you will have a worthwhile society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There really are only 3 reasons for poverty in 21st century Britain.

1. Stupidity

2. Laziness

3. Irresponsibility.

Eradicate all 3 and you will have a worthwhile society."

Unbelievable reply

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i read that 6% of the world population owns 59% of the worlds wealth. so its pretty hard to get a good share of it

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

4 Illness

5 Redundancy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There really are only 3 reasons for poverty in 21st century Britain.

1. Stupidity

2. Laziness

3. Irresponsibility.

Eradicate all 3 and you will have a worthwhile society."

That's an interesting one, happen to know an awful lot of people in the financial sector who these three can be applied to and yet despite being far more of a financial drain on taxpayers they are back on their bonuses and costing each of us more than 8k each.

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By *essiCouple
over a year ago

suffolk

Now wheres my wand....

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"i read that 6% of the world population owns 59% of the worlds wealth. so its pretty hard to get a good share of it "

For a long while the figures for Scotland were 7% of the population owns 84% of the wealth.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"4 Illness

5 Redundancy

genuine illness, not like the one who worked for me, who developed acute agoraphobia but thankfully working in her mum and dads pub helped her overcome it just before going on half pay...

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

London and Cheshire

"Back in the days my family were so poor we used the old outdoor clay plumbing pipes stuffed with straw as pillows and ate gravel mixed with water instead of baked beans ,,how things change with time"

You lucky bastard... we used to get up before we went to bed...work 96 hours a day and lived in a shoe box in the middle of the road...the good old days!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There really are only 3 reasons for poverty in 21st century Britain.

1. Stupidity

2. Laziness

3. Irresponsibility.

Eradicate all 3 and you will have a worthwhile society."

sounds like what you need to become a banker

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

London and Cheshire

"4 Illness

5 Redundancy

So true so if we stop the first 3 then the sick and down on the luck could be given more!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"There really are only 3 reasons for poverty in 21st century Britain.

1. Stupidity

2. Laziness

3. Irresponsibility.

Eradicate all 3 and you will have a worthwhile society.

sounds like what you need to become a banker"

Sounds like rhyming slang.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real.

I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh.

Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse.

hear hear....i work im a single parent ,i get help with my rent , ok...but my gas alone at the moment is £60 a week (i have a token meter) just to keep warm and eat healthily ....i feed my kids before me and beleive me somtimes i have too..

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By *londeCazWoman
over a year ago

Arse End of the Universe, Cumbria

You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

Courtesy of Python, M productions

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Back in the days my family were so poor we used the old outdoor clay plumbing pipes stuffed with straw as pillows and ate gravel mixed with water instead of baked beans ,,how things change with time

Courtesy of Python, M productions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"4 Illness

5 Redundancy

So true so if we stop the first 3 then the sick and down on the luck could be given more!"

Which is what the Welfare State was originally designed to do way back in 1947.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My remaining 300 notes barely covers fuel bills and groceries. Fuel poverty is very real.

I work and still get shafted am i a lazy good for nothing to lazy to help myself? I think not and as fir education i have 3 degrees so your point about the clever rising to the top is utter tosh.

Until we get the Tories to fuck, sort out robbing landlords. Sort out robbing energy suppliers and give people a fare wage it can only get worse.

But you still have enough for mobile internet access?

Three degrees you say? I'm sure Prince Charles could find a use for you.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

You need a phone and internet access to find work these days. JCP+ has all vacancies online, people expect to be able to send applicants an e-mail. Libraries aren't open 24 hours a day and you do have to respond quickly.

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester

Big business and the government need the poor, they actually need to create an underclass to ensure that the class system in this country is maintained. This Govt and all the ones before it have always been in the pockets of the rich, the EU has the social chapter which our government has opted out of since they joined, this is a set of rules which make your employer responsible for looking after you should they decide that they no longer want to employ you. Its why German industry is the strongest in europe, it makes sure that they plan long into the future and carry on being profitable. Making bosses responsible for their employees and ensuring they will be paid either for working in their factories or sitting at home because the company has problems caused by the bosses pushes responsibility for funding unemployment on the bosses not govt .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Growing up poor is very different these days to how I remember my childhood circa 80/90s my parents had very little money to feed clothe and heat four children all spare cash went on household items/bills we lived by a simple mantra if you have no money you can't afford it unlike some of today's poor people who seem to live in a deluded world of material items and the latest must have craze . Our family as skint as we were put emphasis on the word family days out constituted walks with the dogs days at the park playing football but instilled into us was an ethic not to resent our upbringing but respect it and have a work ethic to better ourselves since taking a risk and setting my own business up I now keep four people in employment yes I drive a decent car etc etc but that comes down to the core values of my youth funny how people get jealous tho

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Part 2. BBC3. Now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Growing up poor is very different these days to how I remember my childhood circa 80/90s my parents had very little money to feed clothe and heat four children all spare cash went on household items/bills we lived by a simple mantra if you have no money you can't afford it unlike some of today's poor people who seem to live in a deluded world of material items and the latest must have craze . Our family as skint as we were put emphasis on the word family days out constituted walks with the dogs days at the park playing football but instilled into us was an ethic not to resent our upbringing but respect it and have a work ethic to better ourselves since taking a risk and setting my own business up I now keep four people in employment yes I drive a decent car etc etc but that comes down to the core values of my youth funny how people get jealous tho"

I grow up as a Orphan I have no family and spent my childhood in Orphanages, being moved from one to the other never had any possessions ended up on the streets at 16 no money no home and no help from the government.

Kids nowadays can not say they are poor, nowadays the government throw money at them! Pisses me of programs like that fuck um and let um starve!

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By *adybird69Couple
over a year ago

EASTBOURNE

You want to moan about people claiming benefits lol what about all the jobs lost recently with comets Jessops and blockbusters etc some if those people are on benefits because we won't shop there as we would rather save a pound and get it of the Internet as we don't have to go out and collect it sounds like we are all off to a lazy society

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You want to moan about people claiming benefits lol what about all the jobs lost recently with comets Jessops and blockbusters etc some if those people are on benefits because we won't shop there as we would rather save a pound and get it of the Internet as we don't have to go out and collect it sounds like we are all off to a lazy society "

I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!

plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!

plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered"

That too!

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By *adybird69Couple
over a year ago

EASTBOURNE

I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!

plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered"

Just another lot of poor excuses that have cost thousands of jobs what would you have done before the Internet

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By *adybird69Couple
over a year ago

EASTBOURNE

Totally agree if we gonna send anyone in it should be the French people they don't take any crap from their government or fuel providers that's why we got to pay the excess

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"Do people really think there is no true poverty in the UK? If you do can I live in your society - it is a hell of a lot better than the one that I know exists all over the UK.

Do you really think that everyone on benefits wants to be, could get a job if they wanted to?

Shy"

Hear, hear!

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By *inktherapyCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

"We dont have genuine poverty problem really in this country or any in the west, If you look at all these so called poor familys all have flat screen tv, mobile phones smokes fags designers clothes, they arent using hand me downs clothes,lets be honest with the benefits system in this country is enough to clothe and feed you, so its miss spent money and commercialism as people believe they have to have the latest tv or tablet computer, example a single parent with 3 kids at christmas spent more money than we did and we both work , she bought a tablet for her daughter at 5 yrs old, and all the rest got hundreds of pounds spent on them,

Poverty my ass "

Try reading the Jack Monroe (agirlcalledjack) blog - a single mum of 23 who tried working and found it was incompatible with the system. Doesn't smoke, sold her tv and most of her posessions. Went hungry to feed her child - and even he was hungry at times.

Thankfully her situation has improved (but is still not brilliant) Ignore the left wing politics if you wish - I did

Real poverty (no tv, no car, no smoking etc) most definitely exists. I work with a charity who deliver care packages to families in need - basic essentials which they cannot afford (often through no fault of their own)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What gets me is where the hell was our PM when Thatcher managed to get the nation rioting , because this fool is making all the same mistakes , how long will it be before his Tory mates stab him in the back and chuck him overboard......lol

The nearer we get to polling day the more nervous they will get .....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!

plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered

Just another lot of poor excuses that have cost thousands of jobs what would you have done before the Internet "

I used catalogues! So just to clarify... We've moved into an age of technology and be quad I choose to embrace that I'm personally helping to put people out of a job? I've lost two jobs in 3 years due to cut backs. I'm a legal secretary normally but guess where I'm hiding out now ... Oh yeah baby ... In IT. When the world changes you move with it. In between while I was waiting for this job I worked in the co op and did cam girl stuff. At no point did I go on in one support. If I'd had to, I would have picked up a mop and cleaned.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..............

Real poverty is no roof, no food, no pals and no hope.

Lots of folk survive quite happily with no telly, car or fags.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!

plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered

Just another lot of poor excuses that have cost thousands of jobs what would you have done before the Internet

Weird words should read "because" and "income". Damn phone!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"What gets me is where the hell was our PM when Thatcher managed to get the nation rioting , because this fool is making all the same mistakes , how long will it be before his Tory mates stab him in the back and chuck him overboard......lol

The nearer we get to polling day the more nervous they will get .....

The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd rather do a ten mile walk or go to the gym than traipse round shops which is why I buy from the net. Nowt to do with being lazy, I just hate shopping!

plus i dont drive so anything to big to get on the bus i cant get home anyway so i have to buy certain things online and have them delivered

Just another lot of poor excuses that have cost thousands of jobs what would you have done before the Internet

Weird words should read "because" and "income". Damn phone!

Almost every place I ever worked has closed down. That's about ten companies in 14 years. I've been called all kinds of lazy regardless of the fact I went from Associated Press and the Dept for work and Pensions to scrubbing toilets just to put money on the table.

But then when I couldn't get paid for suffering mental and physical illness combined, I just refused to sign on. Had no other choice at first because I really was that ill and now it's a matter of principle because they're so irresponsible now that I can't believe I ever worked there.

If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are complex reasons for poverty, both political economic and social economic factors are huge influences and sometimes determinants of both present and future poverty. These will feed into areas such as education and health.

It is also wise to consider poverty in a context of deprivation. There is abroad spectrum from total deprivation which is absence of the essentials we need to survive (hunger, homelessness, etc) to that of relative deprivation in which children for example may have clothing and shoes but not the designer type which society promotes as being the norm or fashion.

The Govt attacks on the poor are ultimately self defeating. They constrained housing and it led to millions of homelessness and ultimately a false price for houses as all know the market was inflated. Led to us losing 25% of our national wealth. So more attacks on the poor are not going to help.

If you want to end poverty, or relative deprivation, you need to invest in the capital required to achieve a good standard of living in todays world. You need investment in the education systems, the infrastructure particularly transport and housing, and the other essentials such as the energy utilities.

If we did that we would have found ourselves without an economic collapse and without poverty. Not on the scale we see today certainly.

Instead we spent it on wars and buying houses in Spain. That went well didn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The nearer we get to polling day the more nervous they will get .....

The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun."

Every govt has it's critics from within it's own ranks but to say Tory MPs are revolting is an absurdity frankly. Cameron has already demonstrated what he does with dissenters so to all those MPs who think they have got one up on him - welcome to political obscurity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are complex reasons for poverty, both political economic and social economic factors are huge influences and sometimes determinants of both present and future poverty. These will feed into areas such as education and health.

If we did that we would have found ourselves without an economic collapse and without poverty. Not on the scale we see today certainly.

Instead we spent it on wars and buying houses in Spain. That went well didn't it?

Good shout, plus going to war is a bit redundant when the government isn't housing active soldiers and their families and then the veterans.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..........

If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!"

Support your local shops!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..........

If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!

Support your local shops!"

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

" ...........

The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun.

I guess you didn't watch PMQ's at lunchtime then.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The nearer we get to polling day the more nervous they will get .....

The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun.

Cameron went in with a corporate management style: he is the chief executive and Osborne is CFO. The rest of the board will not change anything that duo are determined to do. Any speaking out of turn is showing disloyalty to the company.

One of my favourite maps is the Charles Booth map of London. It shows the socio-economic landscape of London. If you overlay it with the modern map showing areas of deprivation not a lot has changed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..........

If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!

Support your local shops!

If they lower their prices I might!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ...........

The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun.

My local MP in Liverpool Steve Rotherham fought the DWP on my behalf. Seriously awesome guy. Cameron refuses to answer his questions quite a lot. He certainly doesn't like challengers nevermind critics. So different to the days when he was having to charm people and lie blatantly as opposed to now just having his "Lib Dem" glove-puppet Nick Clegg apologise for having no control.

I took it upon myself to name this comical two headed bitch of a world destroyer... it's name is...

CLEGGERON!!!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

" ..........

One of my favourite maps is the Charles Booth map of London. It shows the socio-economic landscape of London. If you overlay it with the modern map showing areas of deprivation not a lot has changed."

The good people of Notting Hill, particularly POrtland Rd, might disgree.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..........

If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!

Support your local shops!

If they lower their prices I might! "

If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..........

If i shop anywhere I do it locally within the community, barring the new asda which is putting the squeeze on family business!

Support your local shops!

If they lower their prices I might!

If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left."

Ill go online and find a different store

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

" ..........

One of my favourite maps is the Charles Booth map of London. It shows the socio-economic landscape of London. If you overlay it with the modern map showing areas of deprivation not a lot has changed.

The good people of Notting Hill, particularly POrtland Rd, might disgree."

There are areas that have changed (parts of Islington, Isle of Dogs and the Docks and Notting Hill) I agree - but look at the Indices of Deprivation and the Booth map. More than 100 years later the "progress" is relative.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they lower their prices I might!

If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left."

YES!! Not to mention imagine the state of the place when asda takes on about 10% of the gross unemployed in the area as a result and then pay you all minimum wage on part time hours so you'll become completely dependent on the corporation!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not even 10%. Tesco will move in to compete and then every little bit less will surely help

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

" ..........

One of my favourite maps is the Charles Booth map of London. It shows the socio-economic landscape of London. If you overlay it with the modern map showing areas of deprivation not a lot has changed.

The good people of Notting Hill, particularly POrtland Rd, might disgree.

I dunno if you remember Roy Brooks (Brothel in Pimlico).

It was said he used Booth's maps to decide where to make decisions about the 'next trendy areas'.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

If they lower their prices I might!

If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left.

Walmart envisage a time when, instead of wages, a chunk of colleague's income will be in vouchers - only redeemable in their stores.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's pretty much what they do here too. They give tiny discounts to staff to make sure that they shop in the store. My mum used to make me apply for asda every year in between temp jobs when I never had a permanent job and I'd juts take the form to shut her up and then see how long I could leave it on the table untouched. She refused to throw one away for so long that it had browned and curled at the edges. I hate the place, it's like what the circus would be if the 3rd Reich had won!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they lower their prices I might!

If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left.

Walmart envisage a time when, instead of wages, a chunk of colleague's income will be in vouchers - only redeemable in their stores."

If Walmart are providing the goods an average household needs on a weekly basis why shouldn't they see it as employee loyalty to spend it in their stores. If those vouchers were tax-free I'd wage a lot of employees would insist on receiving them.

I invest in the stock market but I would never buy shares in a company whose products or services I don't use. Why would I not use a company I have a vested interest in? I might as well take my money into the garden and burn it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ...........

The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun.

I took it upon myself to name this comical two headed bitch of a world destroyer... it's name is...

CLEGGERON!!!"

Spoken like a true Hattonite.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I took it upon myself to name this comical two headed bitch of a world destroyer... it's name is...

CLEGGERON!!!

Spoken like a true Hattonite.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ...........

The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun.

I guess you didn't watch PMQ's at lunchtime then."

No need, it's no different from any other PMQs from any other point in recent history. Blair/Brown got the same treatment from their own backbenchers, as did Thatcher in her days as PM.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

" ...........

The back benchers are revolting (no pun intended) already. The problem is they want him replaced by someone even further to the right than Atilla The Hun.

I guess you didn't watch PMQ's at lunchtime then.

No need, it's no different from any other PMQs from any other point in recent history. Blair/Brown got the same treatment from their own backbenchers, as did Thatcher in her days as PM."

That's where you're wrong. There's been nothing like the disdain in which Cameron is held.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

If they lower their prices I might!

If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left.

Walmart envisage a time when, instead of wages, a chunk of colleague's income will be in vouchers - only redeemable in their stores.

You made a choice about your stocks and shares. If someone has earnt their money why shouldn't they have the freedom and choice to spend it where they like? An economy built on large corporations paying people in vouchers that they can only spend where they work smacks of indenture. Or worse, the sort of slave towns the existed when slavery was outlawed but people still had to live and work the plantations. Or, possibly, a bit Communist - you can only buy from the sanctioned outlets and we will tell you what to buy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they lower their prices I might!

If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left.

Walmart envisage a time when, instead of wages, a chunk of colleague's income will be in vouchers - only redeemable in their stores.

Then it's just one step closer towards abolishing pay and people having to live off a credit system where all the unemployed are completely wiped out. The Nazi's did that when they initiated Austria!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

...............

That's almost Thatcherite. Don't let Cameron/ Osborne hear you say it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The reason local shops are more expensive is because they have less economies of scale to bring to the market and the high rents and rates are killing them. Supermarkets have far more economic power and thus can afford to promote lower pricing for goods.

However too much efficiency can create a paradox. You have the whole thing run supply end you end up with no demand. Why we are in such a mess. That is something greedy people cannot quite get their head around.

So just as with poverty, complex reasons behind local shops, supermarkets, and internet retailing, and at the end of the day economic forces will win out. If the internet can provide the goods cheaper then it will be the bigger retailer in each specific market it caters towards.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The reason local shops are more expensive is because they have less economies of scale to bring to the market and the high rents and rates are killing them. Supermarkets have far more economic power and thus can afford to promote lower pricing for goods.

The corporate system as created by themselves. The more you buy, the more you save. The more you make the less you're taxed. Help the big guys destroy the little guys because they can't afford to all by their lonesome

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's taking it to the extreme lickety, and it will never happen. Any govt that permits it will also have to turn their country into a dictatorship because if they don't they'll find themselves voted out of office.

The Walmart voucher idea isn't so insane if you think about it. Offer employees 10% of their salary in vouchers that are tax-free and they'll take them greedily. I would. I'd be mad not to. So what that I have to spend them in Walmart (for example), I'd have to buy goods and groceries somewhere so why not get a tax break out of it too, as well as support the company that employs me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Walmart voucher idea isn't so insane if you think about it. Offer employees 10% of their salary in vouchers that are tax-free and they'll take them greedily. I would. I'd be mad not to. So what that I have to spend them in Walmart (for example), I'd have to buy goods and groceries somewhere so why not get a tax break out of it too, as well as support the company that employs me."

Unfortunately that may very well be the beginning of a bigger problem. People doing themselves out of more money. No such system is made to help, it's made to see how much more you can make people spend. Call 10% of your wages free food and you lose perspective in time

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Before you know it the 10% becomes 90%. Why wouldn't you go for it? IT's all tax free, isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Before you know it the 10% becomes 90%. Why wouldn't you go for it? IT's all tax free, isn't it?"

AND when that percentage loses value as compared to national wage and inflation of VAT goods are you going to do the maths every year to make sure they're not analising you and filling their own pockets with unchecked bonuses?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Follow the model through and think about world economics. It won't be long before globalisation will mean that only a handful of companies will own and run everything. Will your business survive if they spread their services to cover electricians and their workers spent their vouchers at Walmart? The larger the organisation and the more employees it has the more of a dictatorship you create. How long before you find that where you do spend your free money is just a subsidiary of the parent company? If the voucher allows them to charge you at market rates for what they get at wholesale rates they would be daft not to offer a whole suite of things you cannot live without.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Before you know it the 10% becomes 90%. Why wouldn't you go for it? IT's all tax free, isn't it?"

So let me get this straight.. you'd much prefer to hand over 20% of your wages to the govt so you can secure the priviledge of spending the other 80% wherever you want?

In actuality, it'll never be 90% simply because the govt will still want their cut of your wages, typically 35% if you include N.I. too.

I don't think it's such a huge issue to spend 10% of your salary in the supermarket where you work, and they might even deliver it for free for you too, plus you get to know about all the lovely offers long before the outside world does. A friend of mine worked for B&Q and he never bought anything from a rival store simply because he didn't need to. he was already at a DIY store everyday and didn't need to travel to another one. and got a generous staff discount for doing so too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which companies do huge multinationals like Tescos own? It makes for surprising reading that in some instances you could be spending your money with completely different companies but when you look at the heirarchy it all goes back to one parent company anyway.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

If they lower their prices I might!

If you think your local shop is dear, just wait till you see Asda's prices when there's no local shops left.

Walmart envisage a time when, instead of wages, a chunk of colleague's income will be in vouchers - only redeemable in their stores.

I cant believe even you would come away with a quote like that, it would not be tax free and they are employees not shareholders and should be paid in hard cash.

So would you as a shareholder must be ok with having your dividends paid in vouchers then?

It really smacks of the bad old days

"I owe my soul to the company store"

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

...............

Those who support this model do so on the assumption THEY'll be one of whose making the decisions.

It ain't so.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Look at Walmart - they own a hell of a lot more than it appears on the surface. Not to mention the "dead peasants" policies they had not that long ago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So would you as a shareholder must be ok with having your dividends paid in vouchers then?

If that was the best financial offer available to me then yes I would be ok with it.

Example:

If I could have dividends of 10p per share in cash, or vouchers equal to the value of 20p per share, I'd take the vouchers as that's a 100% better offer for me financially.

As I said, I don't buy shares in companies I don't use, so a voucher offer instead of cold cash is money that I would spend with them anyway but this way I'd get a far better deal out of it, AND free up money to spend elsewhere.

The better the share price, the better valued are my shares, the more profit I get in the long run. Pure economics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Look at Walmart - they own a hell of a lot more than it appears on the surface. Not to mention the "dead peasants" policies they had not that long ago."

And the Waltons are one of the richest families on the planet. What do they give back? Fuckers! The worst thing is that our economy is getting screwed by american corporations syphoning profits off overseas in huge tax bonuses while america owes us massively

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

..............

The better the share price, the better valued are my shares, the more profit I get in the long run. Pure economics."

Only as function of the purchase price less dealing costs.

Applied economics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"america owes us massively"

Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"america owes us massively

Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?

No we don't. WWII debt was paid off a few years ago.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"america owes us massively

Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?

We paid the money back years ago.

We still owe them an enormous debt of gratitude.

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By * Busty HotwifeCouple
over a year ago

Bradford

"Has anyone watched this on the BBC? Also on iPlayer

Should simply be called growing up! How is smoking cigs constantly. Having flat screen tellys and flock wallpaper living in poverty?!?

The producer was obviously from a well off background unlike most others who lives through the 70s "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is in truth an attempt to take us back to the Plantation. It is all there from the permanent tenant to the credit economy and its billing exercises which are nominal and not real in terms of what is wealth.

The country is largely run by idiots adhering to a failed ideology and failed economic system.

In relation to benefits it should be realized that 22 million Britons are on benefits. That is what comes when you don't invest in your society.

We have a depression. Some areas have jobs but large parts of the country have none or very few. I think demanding cuts to benefits and pointing fingers at the poor during a Depression that was caused by criminality, fraud, theft and widespread mismanagement in the financial sector is a disgrace and a mark of stupidity for anyone working class to support.

It isn't those who get 71 quid a week to live on who are to blame for the mess our country is in. People should reflect on that and focus on the real culprits. Our elites and their stupid ideas on economy and society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"america owes us massively

Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?

No we don't. WWII debt was paid off a few years ago."

Didn't realise that, I thought we still owed them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

.. but America certainly doesn't 'owe us massively'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"america owes us massively

Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?

Trillions in WWII debt is not right unless someone's been playing with the interest rates. They've been taking plenty through tax evasion. They've also been playing magical disappearing tricks with the world's gold bullion and are the ones buying off the world's oil supply and selling it to us expensive.

Rupert Murdoch's Newscorp alone makes billions every year and pays about 10% less corporate tax a year than is the law. That's just the newspapers while the minimum wagers are lumped with higher taxes. We owe the americans jack shit in my eyes!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is in truth an attempt to take us back to the Plantation. It is all there from the permanent tenant to the credit economy and its billing exercises which are nominal and not real in terms of what is wealth.

The country is largely run by idiots adhering to a failed ideology and failed economic system.

In relation to benefits it should be realized that 22 million Britons are on benefits. That is what comes when you don't invest in your society.

Bollocks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"america owes us massively

Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?

Actually America now owes us trillions. The largest investor into the US at the time of the financial system collapse was the UK. Mainly in mortgage investment. When that went the lot started to go.

We invest double what the Chinese do in the US but you don't get to hear about that as that is acceptable. To put it into scale 50% of all foreign investment into the US during the year of the collapse in 2007 was from the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

they take what's owed and what they want through globalisation. there is nothing they could possibly need, yet they want want want. to be in control

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

The country is largely run by idiots adhering to a failed ideology and failed economic system.

In relation to benefits it should be realized that 22 million Britons are on benefits. That is what comes when you don't invest in your society.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

" ............ We owe the americans jack shit in my eyes!"

They make us feel a bit better about ourselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"america owes us massively

Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?

Actually America now owes us trillions. The largest investor into the US at the time of the financial system collapse was the UK. Mainly in mortgage investment. When that went the lot started to go.

Northern Rock, the first bank to go fucked, which we paid for, was American and screwed up the loan system by allowing people without jobs to take loans. We paid for their gambling!

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

The country is largely run by idiots adhering to a failed ideology and failed economic system.

In relation to benefits it should be realized that 22 million Britons are on benefits. That is what comes when you don't invest in your society.

Bollocks "

So tell us who did cause the collapse then.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"america owes us massively

Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?

No we don't. WWII debt was paid off a few years ago.

Didn't realise that, I thought we still owed them. "

Christmas 2006 was the final payment. It is one of the reasons I think the talk of us being in massive debt is a bit of a smokescreen. We had this huge debt that we carried and paid down for 60 years. During that time we had the "never had it so good" and "loadsamoney" eras. Debt, as a nation, is not new. How you present it to the people is ideology.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..................

Northern Rock, the first bank to go fucked, which we paid for, was American "

Er, No.

" and screwed up the loan system by allowing people without jobs to take loans. We paid for their gambling!"

Er, Yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/01/13 23:56:09]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We were so poor that I had to wear my cousins hand down school uniform .. I would nt have minded but the skirt was a bit tight

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..................

Northern Rock, the first bank to go fucked, which we paid for, was American

Er, No.

and screwed up the loan system by allowing people without jobs to take loans. We paid for their gambling!

Er, Yes."

My mistake, it was the American subsidiary that started it and the British original that was stupid enough to follow suit... err yes???

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

The banks were warned long before the collapse that it was going to happen and through greed they still kept to the same path, and some experts are of the opinion that there are dealings now that are heading towards another but more damaging collapse.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"america owes us massively

Huh? We owe America trillions in WW2 debt. How do you figure that America owes us something?

No we don't. WWII debt was paid off a few years ago.

Didn't realise that, I thought we still owed them.

The cash debt has been settled but there's still an enormous influence, hence Iraq/ Afghanistan and, closer to home, Faslane.

When Trident is renewed the decision, and much of the funding, will come from the Pentagon.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The country is largely run by idiots adhering to a failed ideology and failed economic system.

In relation to benefits it should be realized that 22 million Britons are on benefits. That is what comes when you don't invest in your society.

Bollocks

So tell us who did cause the collapse then."

The inflows into property markets were the main reasons for the collapse. There was an asset inflation (think mortgage prices) and the income capacity of the economies involved could not sustain the prices.

As the mortgage markets in the US started to fail it became clear that banks were selling sub prime (buy to rent, developments, etc) as A rated standard mortgages. Each bought of each other and global markets were created in derivatives based on the returns from the mortgages (assets).

Then panic set in when they realized they didn't know which was which. That led to a huge asset inflation and the majority of the worlds major banks were caught out overextended.

The whole problem however was driven by a lack of social provision in housing which has pushed up prices beyond the reach now of most Britons. Another factor was the belief in unregulated markets which led to the mortgage frauds and the fraud on the world interest rate (LIBOR). Another factor was people investing in housing and expecting the same capital returns as you do when you actually provide a good or service.

The whole thing leads to where we are today and the whole premise of austerity alongside low interest rates (which hammers pensions and savers) is to ensure the 14% of all mortgages that are 1% rise in rates from default alive. US policy is similar but they tend to just buy the mortgage (asset) from the banks involved.

None of this was caused by people on benefits.

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