FabSwingers.com forum: Gender appropriation.

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

OK as its international women's day, let's have a serious discussion.

In regard to TVs and CDs (excluding TG/TS) who are fetishistically motivated, do you agree or disagree that their (our) kink is actually gender appropriation, and in fact could be argued as misogynistic by sexualising elements of femininity?

Discuss.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Clarification ... I am referring specifically to fetishism motivations. There are, of course many who's motivations do not fit this category!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

It's certainly possible that some gender bending - particularly as a parody or exaggeration of what they're depicting - could be prejudiced. Even beyond "we're all surrounded by bigotry anyway and just have to try to escape".

Given the current political climate, I think it's all pretty risky to get into, because those coming after gender non-conformity seem pretty hostile to variety of expression and aspirations among cis women, too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You first would have to define what is femininity ?

Is a woman feminine only if she exhibits a certain sort of elements associated with femininity? What are those elements ?

Who defined them as being the sole criteria of femininity ? Women themselves ? Or men ?

Can a woman be a woman without being sexualised or even sexualised themselves in order to fit into the societal expectations of femininity ?

So yes, it definitely could be argued that gender approbation is misogynistic in nature. Nonetheless, I don’t believe that CDs or TVs are misogynistics per se. They are not consciously misogynistics. They just perceive women through the social construct that a woman is a woman if she is sexualised in one way or another.

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester

"You first would have to define what is femininity ?

Is a woman feminine only if she exhibits a certain sort of elements associated with femininity? What are those elements ?

Who defined them as being the sole criteria of femininity ? Women themselves ? Or men ?

Can a woman be a woman without being sexualised or even sexualised themselves in order to fit into the societal expectations of femininity ?

"
thank you well put sir

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By *ackbydemandMan
over a year ago

Leicester

Even if it is and I'm not saying if it is or it isn't, another big question is, who cares?

Last week I was in a club during the day and as was a TV appreciation day it was full. Some I felt no attraction for, in the same way I feel no attraction for some women. But there was one or two that I absolutely could have dragged into a private room right there.

I don't care about motivations, if you make me horny and want to fuck you then it doesn't matter.

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By *hePerkyPumpkinTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

You've raised an interesting question that I've never really considered before.

I guess, if it's considered cultural appropriation when someone from one culture dresses and acts like someone from another culture...

Then someone from one gender dressing and acting like someone from another gender would be considered gender appropriation.

Although I would also argue that, it's not gender appropriation when I wear makeup or put on a wig or wear clothes designed for women.

But I think it is when I, change my voice and personality to what I consider to be "more feminine" (which is something I never do anyway)

Honestly I'm getting a bit confused trying to answer this... I just like dressing up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh this is a tough one.

I don't care if a man has a fetish for dressing as a woman. Fill ya boots. What I have an issue with is when these men, using sissification as a form of humiliation, implying that being a woman is something to be humiliated by, or worse than being a man.

Crossdressers who use the term clit to describe they're small penis boil my blood.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You've raised an interesting question that I've never really considered before.

I guess, if it's considered cultural appropriation when someone from one culture dresses and acts like someone from another culture...

Then someone from one gender dressing and acting like someone from another gender would be considered gender appropriation.

Although I would also argue that, it's not gender appropriation when I wear makeup or put on a wig or wear clothes designed for women.

But I think it is when I, change my voice and personality to what I consider to be "more feminine" (which is something I never do anyway)

Honestly I'm getting a bit confused trying to answer this... I just like dressing up "

It was confusing enough posing the question!

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

"You've raised an interesting question that I've never really considered before.

I guess, if it's considered cultural appropriation when someone from one culture dresses and acts like someone from another culture...

Then someone from one gender dressing and acting like someone from another gender would be considered gender appropriation.

Although I would also argue that, it's not gender appropriation when I wear makeup or put on a wig or wear clothes designed for women.

But I think it is when I, change my voice and personality to what I consider to be "more feminine" (which is something I never do anyway)

Honestly I'm getting a bit confused trying to answer this... I just like dressing up "

Even cultural appropriateness can't be entirely decided upon where it falls either.

If you are not making fun or mocking with intent but embracing what it is then go for it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Oh this is a tough one.

Crossdressers who use the term clit to describe they're small penis boil my blood.

Yes it's these sort of issues that started the question fermenting in my mind.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Oh this is a tough one.

Crossdressers who use the term clit to describe they're small penis boil my blood.

Yes, for sure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

May be an unpopular opinion because as far as I'm aware she has transitioned from male to female. But Dylan Mulvany is someone who winds me up, his day of 'girlhood' series. It is like a parody of being a woman, and it really doesn't fit right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In terms of fetish, if you're enjoying it, and no-one is expressing offence or getting hurt, then it shouldn't be anyone else's business.

That said, however, imagine if someone used blackface as part of an interracial fetish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In terms of fetish, if you're enjoying it, and no-one is expressing offence or getting hurt, then it shouldn't be anyone else's business.

That said, however, imagine if someone used blackface as part of an interracial fetish.

Or a coal miner fetish?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"May be an unpopular opinion because as far as I'm aware she has transitioned from male to female. But Dylan Mulvany is someone who winds me up, his day of 'girlhood' series. It is like a parody of being a woman, and it really doesn't fit right. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh this is a tough one.

Crossdressers who use the term clit to describe they're small penis boil my blood.

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By *ackbydemandMan
over a year ago

Leicester

I find the best solution is to turn to another channel

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

BM this in case I can make any sense of this thread.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"BM this in case I can make any sense of this thread. "

I think it might be veering off piste a little!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"BM this in case I can make any sense of this thread.

I think it might be veering off piste a little! "

And will end in someone piste off no doubt

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"BM this in case I can make any sense of this thread.

I think it might be veering off piste a little!

And will end in someone piste off no doubt "

Aha!

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By *ts the taking part thatMan
over a year ago

southampton

It's just men in dresses etc, no big deal and no gender appropriation etc.

So simple.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK as its international women's day, let's have a serious discussion.

Discuss."

Some may be misogynistic such as sissyfication as someone mentioned. But others can be a celebration of femininity (whatever that is).

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By *piderBunnyCouple
over a year ago

Back of Nowhere and Beyond

I think there is an argument to be made both for and against the hypothesis... and neither will actually be accurate for 100% of cases.

After all, it comes down to individual personalities and individual mindsets... so while I don't doubt there are people who are practising gender appropriation, there are likely more people for whom it's nowt to do with anything other than 'ooh I like this' (way to boil down a complex range of emotions to a simplistic idea, Posh

My opinion is that as long as no one is doing it to hurt others and is just embracing their desires... that's all good and should be celebrated.

I have no idea if what I typed makes sense though... that was a lot of thinking for today.

What do you feel about the subject Jennie dearest?

Posh

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By *ny1localMan
over a year ago

READING

I've no idea, I haven't a scooby about most of the terminology. As it is I occasionally struggle with the difference between tv,ts and cd

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By *uzie69xTV/TS
over a year ago

Maidstone

"Discuss."

Well, it is official and the name is Autogynephilia.

Me, I've always been attracted to men, so never had any fetish relationship with women's clothes. The first time I put stockings on I felt sexy (as in slinky and sophisticated) while a lot of my TV friends said their "clitty-pole" almost exploded with how horny they were first time.

Aside from the "treat me like a worthless slut thing", some TVs I know, who are very capable men when not dressed, but the moment they do, they park their brains as they think being a "bimbo" somehow makes them more feminine! Now that makes my blood boil....

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

If you decide that a man dressing up in stereotypically feminine clothes is "appropriation" then you're surely just reinforcing the idea that there exist distinct sets of men's and women's clothes, and that there shouldn't be any diverging from that.

Which I think most of us in 2023 would disagree with...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you decide that a man dressing up in stereotypically feminine clothes is "appropriation" then you're surely just reinforcing the idea that there exist distinct sets of men's and women's clothes, and that there shouldn't be any diverging from that.

Which I think most of us in 2023 would disagree with..."

I think a majority still think clothes are gender specific.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which I think most of us in 2023 would disagree with..."

I think the majority still very much buy into the idea that gender is binary and that there are only very limited and specific ways of being a woman or a man.

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By *rlandoMan
over a year ago

Lincolnshire

I don t understand what you mean ?

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

I dress to please myself and not to take anything away from the opposite sex.

When a woman wears a pair of jeans and a man’s shirt or even a suit, in my opinion she’s not appropriating anything. It’s actually often seen as powerful statement when a woman dresses in a suit and tie, do we as men feel less empowered or that’s she in some way hates men ?

I also dislike the ‘male clitty’ as an aside.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

All the men at work identified as women today.

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By *ust PeachyWoman
over a year ago

Prestonish

An interesting question op. One could say that cross dressing is gender appropriation - and the same, perhaps, for TV’s who dress only when in swinging clubs etc and are every bit a man in every other walk of life.

In all honesty that’s never bothered me. What does upset me occasionally is when cis women who’ve given birth, breastfed, hit menopause - or the multitude of other life experiences that alter our faces/bodies/breasts - are compared unfavourably on sites like this (by men on various threads) to someone who’s had various operations and hormones to create a ‘perfect’ feminine appearance.

I sometimes get the impression that we’re considered lazy if we don’t make an effort to look ultra feminine and alluring at all times.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Tom used to like the Danny La Rue show if that helps

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Tom used to like the Danny La Rue show if that helps "

I think that advances the debate, thank you Tom

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

You raise a good point. No doubt people will be morning about this in a couple of years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"An interesting question op. One could say that cross dressing is gender appropriation - and the same, perhaps, for TV’s who dress only when in swinging clubs etc and are every bit a man in every other walk of life.

I sometimes get the impression that we’re considered lazy if we don’t make an effort to look ultra feminine and alluring at all times. "

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

Delightful Bliss

No I don't think it is, dressing is a sexual activity for sure, but they are not trying to live as a woman. Essentially I see dressing as a another sexual aid, For anyone. Same as toys, porn, play equipment. It's not like they deliberately get dressed to degrade women and any stereotypical behaviours.

I guess that's originally from olde comedy drag Queens acts, especially stripper shows, they would take the piss out of women. I guess it boils down to the audience. Some will be offended some won't

Anyhoo I'm waffling Jennie, hope you can make some sort of sense from my ramblings

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the majority still very much buy into the idea that gender is binary and that there are only very limited and specific ways of being a woman or a man. "

It's more of an 'idea' that gender isn't a binary -- the vast majority are fine with the way things are, and it's only a small minority who hold opposing ideas.

It doesn't matter how you present, unless you're transexual or intersex, a man is a man and a woman is a woman.

It's fine not to conform to societal gender expectations if that's your bag -- but it doesn't change your actual gender.

All the modern identity stuff (nonbinary, genderqueer etc.) is, in my opinion, nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the majority still very much buy into the idea that gender is binary and that there are only very limited and specific ways of being a woman or a man.

It's more of an 'idea' that gender isn't a binary -- the vast majority are fine with the way things are, and it's only a small minority who hold opposing ideas.

It doesn't matter how you present, unless you're transexual or intersex, a man is a man and a woman is a woman.

It's fine not to conform to societal gender expectations if that's your bag -- but it doesn't change your actual gender.

All the modern identity stuff (nonbinary, genderqueer etc.) is, in my opinion, nonsense."

Yes

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By *asterR and slut mayaMan
over a year ago

Bradford

"OK as its international women's day, let's have a serious discussion.

In regard to TVs and CDs (excluding TG/TS) who are fetishistically motivated, do you agree or disagree that their (our) kink is actually

gender appropriation, and in fact

could be argued as misogynistic by

sexualising elements of femininity?

Discuss."

Yes I think it is took me a while to understand the question but yes

But may I say the pearls look good on you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the majority still very much buy into the idea that gender is binary and that there are only very limited and specific ways of being a woman or a man.

It's more of an 'idea' that gender isn't a binary -- the vast majority are fine with the way things are, and it's only a small minority who hold opposing ideas.

It doesn't matter how you present, unless you're transexual or intersex, a man is a man and a woman is a woman.

It's fine not to conform to societal gender expectations if that's your bag -- but it doesn't change your actual gender.

All the modern identity stuff (nonbinary, genderqueer etc.) is, in my opinion, nonsense."

Sam Smith does my head in do I have to agree on the nonbinary thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sam Smith does my head in do I have to agree on the nonbinary thing. "

You know there's a problem when Boy George gets called transphobic for holding similar views.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sam Smith does my head in do I have to agree on the nonbinary thing.

You know there's a problem when Boy George gets called transphobic for holding similar views.

Boy George, Pete Burns, Bowie, Jeffrey Star to name a few…people I can understand and identify with. Expressing something about themselves. They never called made it about gender.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Gender appropriation?

I'm not buying into this at all. It sounds to me like another stick to beat people with.

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By *lmostInseparableCouple
over a year ago

Alfreton

"Gender appropriation?

I'm not buying into this at all. It sounds to me like another stick to beat people with."
Me too, take people as you find them on the day! Even if you don't understand their motivation, it's not for anyone to judge. I find I usually have the best time (conversationally) with people from different walks. I like getting new takes on things and I really hate it when these different people, are shamed out of being themselves. Sterile conversation and not acting on desires, boring!! X

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