FabSwingers.com forum: Ethical query

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Here goes....

A work colleague of mine has a 24 year old son who has some learning disabilities and is also suffering from cerebral palsy.

The question he asked at work today was if it would be alright to take his son to a gentleman's club?

Apparently his son has been asking to go to one since his 21st birthday but so far it has been put off because no one is fully sure about the rules in relation to this.

The son is under no safeguarding rules and will be with his father the whole time.

For me I said I wouldn't do it but what does everyone else think.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why not hire a private esc*** ?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your profile pic reminds me Ezio Bosso for some reason

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

This has been suggested also but dad stated that the kid isn't interested in that he just wants the experience of going as his friend's have been to them before

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ife NinjaMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline

My son is disabled. A hard no. One way ticket to social services. It's just not right

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is the son capable of making his own choices in life etc?

If the person can consent to all the usual stuff, like tattoos, drinking, etc. Then there is nothing wrong with it.

If the person has a need for someone to make their choices for them then, no. Call and ask the club if concerned

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Your profile pic reminds me Ezio Bosso for some reason "

I've been told I'm good with my hands but I am definitely no pianist haha

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"My son is disabled. A hard no. One way ticket to social services. It's just not right

This statement has been echoed by many of us

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Your profile pic reminds me Ezio Bosso for some reason

I've been told I'm good with my hands but I am definitely no pianist haha"

Too bad

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My question is why is his father involved and will be with him all the time

Surely if he wants to go he could take himself there or friends of his own age take him if he can't manage on his own

Lots of people have some form of learning disability but if he can make informed consent re this it shouldn't be an issue

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Is the son capable of making his own choices in life etc?

If the person can consent to all the usual stuff, like tattoos, drinking, etc. Then there is nothing wrong with it.

If the person has a need for someone to make their choices for them then, no. Call and ask the club if concerned "

Good call I think I will put that to the dad and also reiterate the point if social services just for good measure

thank you

Everyone

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *etcplCouple
over a year ago

Gapping Fanny

A gentleman’s club as in a strip joint?

Why would that result in social services involvement?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *amie HantsWoman
over a year ago

Atlantis

If he has capacity and makes the decision then surely that’s fine?

If he has a key worker, ask them. Then you’ll get the right answer

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Your profile pic reminds me Ezio Bosso for some reason

I've been told I'm good with my hands but I am definitely no pianist haha

Too bad

I do play the guitar though and my stitching technique is faultless haha

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So I have sent a message to the dad outlining most of the comments and sentiment of this thread and for now it's in his hands.

Thanks again for your help everyone and have a great day

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah I'm not sure. I think it depends on the severity of the learning difficulties?

My eldest brother has severe learning difficulties, is blind, cerebral palsy and many other things. But he loves a bit of banter, probably from growing up around loads of boys and a house that was very open about sex. And you know, sometimes he will say he wants sex... but he doesn't fully understand exactly how it works and what it is, he is like a little boy And as sad as it is, he will never be able to experience that and none of us would help him to ever achieve that. I don't think it's ok.

It's too complex. I would say there is too many questions that need to be answered and looked at before I could give you my thoughts.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he has the cognitive ability to make the decision for himself, then he can go and no one can stop him. People with disabilities have equal rights. He is still a human being.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"A gentleman’s club as in a strip joint?

Why would that result in social services involvement?"

Was going to say the same. Nothing much happens in strip clubs OP

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A gentleman's club can be defined as a 'massage parlour' where you basically walk in sit down and the women all introduce themselves before you choose one to have sex with. So in other words I guess you call them a brothel, but I've seen gentleman's club written above the doors. No bar or pole dancing inside them, just choose someone pay and go straight to the bedroom.

Not that I've ever been in one, but my friend was

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple
over a year ago

Leeds

"Is the son capable of making his own choices in life etc?

If the person can consent to all the usual stuff, like tattoos, drinking, etc. Then there is nothing wrong with it.

If the person has a need for someone to make their choices for them then, no. Call and ask the club if concerned "

Exactly this, there's such a broad spectrum of learning disabilities if he's able to make informed decisions himself then he should be encouraged to do so, if not that's another matter and would require a lot more thought.

Mrs

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"A gentleman’s club as in a strip joint?

Why would that result in social services involvement?"

I wondered this too

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iss DevilWoman
over a year ago

Bedford

The son is an adult and should be treated as an adult. Neither cerebral palsy nor learning disability (mild, I'm guessing?) are indicators for him not to be able to make his own informed choices. Nobody is questioning us, so why should he be questioned?

OP, please send the father to Mental Capacity Act in case any social workers try to get involved.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does he have the mental capacity to consent? And does he have full understanding of what to expect?

I would ask your friend to undertake advice from the professionals who understand his condition and mental capacity

My friend hired a lady for her son who had Duchennes Muscular

Dystrophy and didn't have a long life expectancy....She wanted him to experience the pleasures other lads his age were having so took the decision for his 18th Birthday. Not all agreed with her but he was a young man with the same wants and desires as any other so why should he not experience that.

Good luck to your friend and his son

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ife NinjaMan
over a year ago

Dunfermline

"A gentleman’s club as in a strip joint?

Why would that result in social services involvement?

I wondered this too "

Trust me, they pick holes in many things

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he has the mental capacity to make that decision, then yes, he should be taken.

There was a big study around it not so long ago.

There’s an amazing resource called lifting the lid, now although it’s focused mainly on those living with dementia, it does help explain how to assess the capacity to consent to intimacies.

Remember, capacity is assessed on a decision by decision basis, just because someone is unable to consent to one thing due to capacity, it’s not to say they can’t consent to something else.

Mrs

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"If he has capacity and makes the decision then surely that’s fine?

If he has a key worker, ask them. Then you’ll get the right answer"

^^^This. If the young man has capacity to make decisions about his own life, his medical care etc, then there should be no issue with him going to a strip or pole dancing club. With or without his Dad. If he needs physical assistance, might his friends be able to assist him? I need physical assistance to get into most clubs, which my husband usually provides, but I don't have any kind of learning difference.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ustyMilfxxxCouple
over a year ago

Swansea

"The son is an adult and should be treated as an adult. Neither cerebral palsy nor learning disability (mild, I'm guessing?) are indicators for him not to be able to make his own informed choices. Nobody is questioning us, so why should he be questioned?

OP, please send the father to Mental Capacity Act in case any social workers try to get involved. "

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

https://tlc-trust.org.uk/ give lots of good advice on sexual matters for people with all sorts of conditions/needs.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Once again thank you to all posters for all the advice that has been provided I will ensure to pass it all on.

I'm sure the dad will endeavour to find out the best possible route for his son whether that be visiting the clubs or not I will keep you all informed.

Again thank you fab forumites you are all amazing!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *andotherjCouple
over a year ago

wetherby

I just want to tell everyone how impressive the knowledge you have all provided is. Top and tail some of these responses and they would go well in a professional journal. I'm proud to be with you.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

Post new Message to Thread