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The MET

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By *asycouple1971 OP   Couple
over a year ago

midlands

Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

There are nearly 11,000 police officers in the Metropolitan Police, and the vast majority of them are also angry, horrified and ashamed of what's happened.

They are good people.

The vast majority of them run to danger and put their lives on the line, day in and day out. Some are killed in the line of duty. Yet the press and public so rarely acknowledge this.

Yes, changes need to happen, as with all Crown and public sectors, but let's not forget the thousands of officers doing their best, each day.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod

over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"There are nearly 11,000 police officers in the Metropolitan Police, and the vast majority of them are also angry, horrified and ashamed of what's happened.

They are good people.

The vast majority of them run to danger and put their lives on the line, day in and day out. Some are killed in the line of duty. Yet the press and public so rarely acknowledge this.

Yes, changes need to happen, as with all Crown and public sectors, but let's not forget the thousands of officers doing their best, each day."

Harold Shipman was a GP considered to be one of the most prolific serial killers in history.

I don't assume all GP's are the same.

A

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

[Removed by poster at 17/01/23 15:45:33]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There are nearly 11,000 police officers in the Metropolitan Police, and the vast majority of them are also angry, horrified and ashamed of what's happened.

They are good people.

The vast majority of them run to danger and put their lives on the line, day in and day out. Some are killed in the line of duty. Yet the press and public so rarely acknowledge this.

Yes, changes need to happen, as with all Crown and public sectors, but let's not forget the thousands of officers doing their best, each day."

And the Met is investigating 800 of its officers over abuse claims. 800. That seems like a hell of a lot more than a few bad apples...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Without excusing the crimes and the laxity of the Met, they are a community like any other.

And every community has it's bad eggs (to put it mildly).

Given their position, they should be above reproach buut we live in the real world where people in positions of responsibility can and do commit heinous crimes.

Whether its law enforcement, the care industry, the medical industry etc etc etc, the dregs that exist below the surface eventually rise to the top and get found out.

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By *amescoupleCouple
over a year ago

north walsham

There's bad apples in every walk of life.

Doctors, nurses, police, firefighters, military and this are just the ones we look upto.

Like some abuse cases they get away with it because people don't see the signs.

But don't tar the whole of the met etc with 1 big brush.

Heck 1 of M's daughters (possibly more) was abused by her uncle at his ex wife's house repeatedly and 2 fantastic officers from the met helped her and us deal with what was a pretty horrific experience when she finally felt brave enough to tell people about it.

Cps on the other hand...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Gonna say it again. 800.

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By *cottish jockMan
over a year ago

london


"There are nearly 11,000 police officers in the Metropolitan Police, and the vast majority of them are also angry, horrified and ashamed of what's happened.

They are good people.

The vast majority of them run to danger and put their lives on the line, day in and day out. Some are killed in the line of duty. Yet the press and public so rarely acknowledge this.

Yes, changes need to happen, as with all Crown and public sectors, but let's not forget the thousands of officers doing their best, each day."

so true, also don't forget all the abuse and violence they suffer doing there jobs and can't refuse to help like other proffessions, their is alit of things that are not portrayed or shown by the media which doesn't help.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

Doing some very basic internet searches it looks like the percentage of Met officers committing these offences, is a little over 3 times greater than the general public percentage.

7.27% to 2.2%.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Gonna say it again. 800."

Being investigated. Not found guilty of anything yet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm surprised it's taken this long to appear on the forum, and I'm not sure I want to get involved, as some posts will be fed by personal narrative as opposed to objective thinking.

There's some major reform required and some cringeworthy mistakes made, but the rhetoric of they're all corrupt etc etc is so tiring and boring.

There also seems to be a narrative of trying to do as much damage to the met as possible ( they're doing a good job of feeding it sometimes) which damages the massive amount of work ongoing.

27% of working age adults have a criminal record in the UK...another statistic you can spin anyway you want.

In essence, awful story, not representative of every person in the organisation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Gonna say it again. 800.

Being investigated. Not found guilty of anything yet "

Seriously? That's your take on this?

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By *elaninMaverickWoman
over a year ago

near Putney Heath


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible. "

I'd never date a cop.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are good people in the Met. Of course there are. And any who are investigated & found innocent should bo fully exonerated.

But the sheer scale & seriousness of all this is gobsmacking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Gonna say it again. 800.

Being investigated. Not found guilty of anything yet "

I have a number of friends and family in various forces. Every single one of them has had spurious complaints and accusations made against them, without any basis in fact, at some point. Any complaint or accusation made against a police officer has to be investigated by the Professional Standards Department of that force.

Yes, a lot are being investigated. But that doesn't mean they have actually done anything wrong. Although the ones who have should absolutely be punished appropriately

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Gonna say it again. 800.

Being investigated. Not found guilty of anything yet

Seriously? That's your take on this?"

And yours is guilty until proven innocent

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

[Removed by poster at 17/01/23 16:12:47]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Gonna say it again. 800.

Being investigated. Not found guilty of anything yet

I have a number of friends and family in various forces. Every single one of them has had spurious complaints and accusations made against them, without any basis in fact, at some point. Any complaint or accusation made against a police officer has to be investigated by the Professional Standards Department of that force.

Yes, a lot are being investigated. But that doesn't mean they have actually done anything wrong. Although the ones who have should absolutely be punished appropriately"

A large part of the problem is they do NOT investigate & vet their own properly.

Carrick, for example, has now admitted to at least 80 sex attacks. This prolific sex offender was working in the force for twenty years. The force had apparently ignored multiple warnings about his abusive behaviour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Gonna say it again. 800.

Being investigated. Not found guilty of anything yet

Seriously? That's your take on this?

And yours is guilty until proven innocent "

Where did I say they were all guilty?

But 800 gives a pretty big hint at the scale of the problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Gonna say it again. 800.

Being investigated. Not found guilty of anything yet

I have a number of friends and family in various forces. Every single one of them has had spurious complaints and accusations made against them, without any basis in fact, at some point. Any complaint or accusation made against a police officer has to be investigated by the Professional Standards Department of that force.

Yes, a lot are being investigated. But that doesn't mean they have actually done anything wrong. Although the ones who have should absolutely be punished appropriately

A large part of the problem is they do NOT investigate & vet their own properly.

Carrick, for example, has now admitted to at least 80 sex attacks. This prolific sex offender was working in the force for twenty years. The force had apparently ignored multiple warnings about his abusive behaviour."

Oh I totally get that. I've seen a sergeant in one force arrested 3 times, twice of which were for assault including once when he punched one of his own PCs and knocked him out. He had a warning put on his file for 12 months and was barred from applying for promotion for 2 years.

In most other jobs he would rightly have been fired on the spot

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By *inda May SimmonsTV/TS
over a year ago

hexham

When people work in very stressful situations and very extreme locations they can become susceptible to very eccentric behaviour traits and they find ways of justifying it…. I was in the military for a lot of years and experienced it for myself

People who are exposed to traumatic experiences really should be monitored and supported very closely.

I confess I have not looked closely at Carrick’s history and he may have had no exposure to traumatic stress, but if he has… it could go a long way to explaining what he has done.

I must emphasise that does not make what he did in any way less horrific than it was. And I don’t suppose any of his victims have any sympathy for the man’s psychological state.

As always happens in these cases it becomes apparent that alarm bells were ringing but nobody paid attention. Maybe procedures will be adopted so that “alarm bells” will be investigated

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Met police is institutionally racist, just like the UK. The Met police is misogynistic, just like the UK.

Those who attack woke thought, see above .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Gonna say it again. 800.

Being investigated. Not found guilty of anything yet

I have a number of friends and family in various forces. Every single one of them has had spurious complaints and accusations made against them, without any basis in fact, at some point. Any complaint or accusation made against a police officer has to be investigated by the Professional Standards Department of that force.

Yes, a lot are being investigated. But that doesn't mean they have actually done anything wrong. Although the ones who have should absolutely be punished appropriately

A large part of the problem is they do NOT investigate & vet their own properly.

Carrick, for example, has now admitted to at least 80 sex attacks. This prolific sex offender was working in the force for twenty years. The force had apparently ignored multiple warnings about his abusive behaviour.

Oh I totally get that. I've seen a sergeant in one force arrested 3 times, twice of which were for assault including once when he punched one of his own PCs and knocked him out. He had a warning put on his file for 12 months and was barred from applying for promotion for 2 years.

In most other jobs he would rightly have been fired on the spot "

Wow

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

He was known as Dave the Bastard by his colleagues. Sarah Everard's killer was known as the R@pist by his colleagues.

Nicknames like thst aren't banter, they are horrific. Any colleague who happily used these nicknames deserves ti he sacked. Be honest if your partner, husband, son, brother came home and told you that these were nicknames used to address other men, would your reaction be anything than horror abd disgust?

Last week several officers were sackedd for a racist whatsapp group. Included in the hilarious banter was joking about the queues for the showers at Auschwitz. Can anyone defend that?

30 years ago Stephen Lawrence was murdered and the Met found to be institutionally racist.

In 2009 Ian Tom London was walking home passed a demonstration and despite posing no threat or signs of aggression he was murdered by a met officer who felt the need to punch him in the head. That officer had previously been dismissed from another force for being a violent thug. The police handling of the case was embarrassingly poor.

In 2014/15 the Met faied to detect a serial killer when Stephen Port murdered 4 gay men.

Nothing has been learned by thise historical deaths. The MET don't care about minorities and they very much protect their own as seen by the multiple complaints about Dave the Bastard.

So yes 800 complaints diesnt mean there are 800 guilty officers but there is a huge problem within the MET and the constant defending of these instances as one bad apple I'd compounding those problems

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By *asycouple1971 OP   Couple
over a year ago

midlands

How many more are lurking at The Met and commiting crimes?

No doubt there will be some expensive enquiry and some reform that will try and address the problem but that train has long gone and the place is now mates sticking up for mates.

No way someone like that rapist went 20yrs in the police force without soneone knowing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are two issues here.

The first should be easy to tackle.

Officers who already have charges of violence or some other problem, being allowed transfer to another area instead of being sacked.

Officers who abuse/rape women not being found out and when allegations are made, ineffective action being taken.

As I say, the first is easy to rectify.

The second problem however, is more problematic, especially when no-one wants to step forward with accusations because they are too scared.

But when accusations are made, immediate investigations should begin by an independent authority given complete access to any and all information they require.

We should put a stop to this nonsense where police investigate themselves.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"Gonna say it again. 800.

Being investigated. Not found guilty of anything yet

I have a number of friends and family in various forces. Every single one of them has had spurious complaints and accusations made against them, without any basis in fact, at some point. Any complaint or accusation made against a police officer has to be investigated by the Professional Standards Department of that force.

Yes, a lot are being investigated. But that doesn't mean they have actually done anything wrong. Although the ones who have should absolutely be punished appropriately

A large part of the problem is they do NOT investigate & vet their own properly.

Carrick, for example, has now admitted to at least 80 sex attacks. This prolific sex offender was working in the force for twenty years. The force had apparently ignored multiple warnings about his abusive behaviour."

I think this is the key - it seems to be a fundamental problem that all police forces (all over the world throughout time) suffer from an inability to police their own.

“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes” (Who will guard the guards themselves?) has been a problem since ancient times.

What is really needed is a very strong external anti corruption force that can police the police.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Be interesting to see how many people on this thread, who seem to have an have an agenda, will openly reveal if they have criminal convictions, or have been investigated for offences?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Be interesting to see how many people on this thread, who seem to have an have an agenda, will openly reveal if they have criminal convictions, or have been investigated for offences?"

Astonishing pivot there. Well done.

I admit I have an agenda. I want to see fewer women get r*ped.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


" Be interesting to see how many people on this thread, who seem to have an have an agenda, will openly reveal if they have criminal convictions, or have been investigated for offences?"

I once got put into detention at school but that is the limit of my #goodyTwoShoes criminal endeavours.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Be interesting to see how many people on this thread, who seem to have an have an agenda, will openly reveal if they have criminal convictions, or have been investigated for offences?

Astonishing pivot there. Well done.

I admit I have an agenda. I want to see fewer women get r*ped."

Not a pivot, it's interesting. I like to see all the facts. Have you a criminal record?

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By *ebauchedDeviantsPt2Couple
over a year ago

Cumbria

How did all those bad apples end up in the same barrel?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Be interesting to see how many people on this thread, who seem to have an have an agenda, will openly reveal if they have criminal convictions, or have been investigated for offences?

Astonishing pivot there. Well done.

I admit I have an agenda. I want to see fewer women get r*ped.

Not a pivot, it's interesting. I like to see all the facts. Have you a criminal record?"

Wow. Astonishing.

No.

But I did also get detention at school, much like the chap above. Guess we can't be trusted at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

800 being investigated. Given Carrick was reported 20 times and never investigated until last year,is that 800 the tip of the iceberg? The commissioner himself says at least 1000 he wants to sack.He will not be allowed to comment on the 800 so is that 1800 in total?

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin


"The Met police is institutionally racist, just like the UK. The Met police is misogynistic, just like the UK.

Those who attack woke thought, see above . "

So a whole country is 'institutionally' racist and misogynist?

We really have entered the clownshow era

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By *asycouple1971 OP   Couple
over a year ago

midlands


"How did all those bad apples end up in the same barrel?"

When 1 apple gets in the barrel it infects the rest.

They get ideas and see their mates getting away with crimes and learn tricks of the trade and loopholes.

The barrel needs replacing.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"How did all those bad apples end up in the same barrel?

When 1 apple gets in the barrel it infects the rest.

They get ideas and see their mates getting away with crimes and learn tricks of the trade and loopholes.

The barrel needs replacing."

100% - which is why a really strong anti corruption force needs to remove that apple as soon as starts to rot.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How did all those bad apples end up in the same barrel?

When 1 apple gets in the barrel it infects the rest.

They get ideas and see their mates getting away with crimes and learn tricks of the trade and loopholes.

The barrel needs replacing.

100% - which is why a really strong anti corruption force needs to remove that apple as soon as starts to rot."

It's hard to argue with that. Then again, this is Fab. So just give it a while...

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London


" Be interesting to see how many people on this thread, who seem to have an have an agenda, will openly reveal if they have criminal convictions, or have been investigated for offences?"

I'm not sure of the relevance of this question?

And I think its against forum rules to answer it.

But why would it be interesting, for the sake of arguing, say every person on this thread critical of the MET has a conviction? What point does that prove?

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod

over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


" Be interesting to see how many people on this thread, who seem to have an have an agenda, will openly reveal if they have criminal convictions, or have been investigated for offences?

I'm not sure of the relevance of this question?

And I think its against forum rules to answer it.

But why would it be interesting, for the sake of arguing, say every person on this thread critical of the MET has a conviction? What point does that prove?"

It's actually against site rules to join if you have one. Buried deep in the small print of the T's & C's.

But Fab is of course made up of members of society, so...........

A

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod

over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


" Be interesting to see how many people on this thread, who seem to have an have an agenda, will openly reveal if they have criminal convictions, or have been investigated for offences?

I'm not sure of the relevance of this question?

And I think its against forum rules to answer it.

But why would it be interesting, for the sake of arguing, say every person on this thread critical of the MET has a conviction? What point does that prove?

It's actually against site rules to join if you have one. Buried deep in the small print of the T's & C's.

But Fab is of course made up of members of society, so...........

A"

**correction

Not 'any' offence, just the violent and nasty ones.

A

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma


" Be interesting to see how many people on this thread, who seem to have an have an agenda, will openly reveal if they have criminal convictions, or have been investigated for offences?"

I could be reading your post incorrectly but I'm confused by your response. Are you suggesting nobody is squeaky clean so therefore don't judge the wrong doings of the Met?

What is the agenda you mention, slating the police, or alarmed at the issues within the Met?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Recently in Birmingham a police officer was jailed for having 300,000 indecent images of children on his computer

Does this make the West Midlands police a bad force that needs investigating?

Before you answer here's another fact

Recently in Birmingham 4 children fell through tbe ice on a lake

2 policemen jumped straight in and tried in vain to rescue the poor kids

Both police officers are now suffering from PTSD and guilt that they never were able to save these poor kids

One of the officers is my brother in law

You decide!!

BTW many Met officers have died over the years all in tbe name of protecting the public

No the met police are not a bad bunch!

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By *ris GrayMan
over a year ago

Dorchester


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible. "

A corrupt policeman hey their are many I've been set up by a corrupt police officer myself, its a lot more common than you think, they have targets they have to reach and more recently a traffic officer called to an incident by a young boy, no need for the police to be there but they were and he made sure he got something out of it for the coffers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Search the name

Mark Williams-Thomas

He will explain exactly what the MET are about and also who these sick paedo corrupt officers are protecting ??

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham


" Be interesting to see how many people on this thread, who seem to have an have an agenda, will openly reveal if they have criminal convictions, or have been investigated for offences?"

Having a criminal record just means they got caught. There could be plenty of fab that have commited crimes, but not been found out yet.

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

[Removed by poster at 18/01/23 01:52:23]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yesterday it was reported a Chief Inspector had killed himself. Failed to report to a police station while on bail for child pornography.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also reported yesterday, Carrick was paid £60k while on remand for a year.He wasn't finally sacked until December last year. He will also receive £20k a year pension plus his state pension when he qualifies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes The Met has issues. It's not the only organisation in the country that does, it also doesn't mean that everyone who works for them is an arsehole. Some of them do the job because they genuinely want to help people. You can't tar them all with the same brush ( or shouldn't rather)

Pxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes The Met has issues. It's not the only organisation in the country that does, it also doesn't mean that everyone who works for them is an arsehole. Some of them do the job because they genuinely want to help people. You can't tar them all with the same brush ( or shouldn't rather)

Pxx"

I don't think any1 said all Met officers are dodgy. But there's clearly a serious problem with that organisation. And time and time again, we get the bad apples mantra & nothing is done to fix it.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London


"Yes The Met has issues. It's not the only organisation in the country that does, it also doesn't mean that everyone who works for them is an arsehole. Some of them do the job because they genuinely want to help people. You can't tar them all with the same brush ( or shouldn't rather)

Pxx

I don't think any1 said all Met officers are dodgy. But there's clearly a serious problem with that organisation. And time and time again, we get the bad apples mantra & nothing is done to fix it."

Exactly this. I've got friends who are serving officers and have worked with retired MET officers. They are not all bad, no one has said that. But there's a problem, there have been problems first years and defending it as a minority is exacerbating that problem.

I also don't think saying that the Met has deep rooted institutional issues is an attack on every officer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of course there are bad apples alin every walk of life. But I think that the MET has been accused of a culture of cronyism and turning a blind eye to many of it's bad apples. Which apparently seems from the top.

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By *irkby coupleCouple
over a year ago

Kirkby

Every job has bad people.

I from a mechanical background and that industry is full of weirdos, especially bus and coach!

I think the big thing with this case is, he is the person who is suppose to protect us. I hope they throw the book at him. Wishing he gets killed is a different story, although I couldn’t give a crap is he is alive or not, should we wish death on all criminals who commit serious crime?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

There are definitely a few good apples serving with the Met.

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By *onnyJohnMan
over a year ago

Doncaster


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible. "

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting.. "

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

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By *onnyJohnMan
over a year ago

Doncaster


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this."

Its a very large organisation, there are going to be a few, thats certainly not me excusing it you understand, simply a fact, there may appear to be too many (one is too many in truth) but remember, one in a organisation like that is going to be huge news, if as has been the case there are more it just compounds the notion that its riddled with wrong uns...

Im pretty sure the higher ups are doing things to trying to fix it..

I was in a organisation that was similar, we see from time to time news of people in the same organisation who have turned out to be wrong uns, it doesn't make the whole organisation bad.

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By *amela1987Woman
over a year ago

Enfield

How many women are not surprised at the behaviour described? How many times a day do you get messages with men wanting to do those things?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

Its a very large organisation, there are going to be a few, thats certainly not me excusing it you understand, simply a fact, there may appear to be too many (one is too many in truth) but remember, one in a organisation like that is going to be huge news, if as has been the case there are more it just compounds the notion that its riddled with wrong uns...

Im pretty sure the higher ups are doing things to trying to fix it..

I was in a organisation that was similar, we see from time to time news of people in the same organisation who have turned out to be wrong uns, it doesn't make the whole organisation bad. "

There have been so many awful stories about the Met for so many years. Trying to shrug & wave it off at this point just won't wash.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How many women are not surprised at the behaviour described? How many times a day do you get messages with men wanting to do those things? "

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By *oly Fuck Sticks BatmanCouple
over a year ago

here & there


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this."

If you’ve ever worked for a large organisation, you will know it takes years to steer the ship in a different direction. Right now what do expect them to do? You seem to very good at bashing the met but there’s been zero suggestions as to how to implement change.

If there are 800 under investigation, what do you suggest happens to them until there is a conclusion?

The commissioner has barely got his feet under the table, all while inheriting a poisoned chalice that seems to be overflowing, he needs at least 12 months in the job for any meaningful change to be noticed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes The Met has issues. It's not the only organisation in the country that does, it also doesn't mean that everyone who works for them is an arsehole. Some of them do the job because they genuinely want to help people. You can't tar them all with the same brush ( or shouldn't rather)

Pxx

I don't think any1 said all Met officers are dodgy. But there's clearly a serious problem with that organisation. And time and time again, we get the bad apples mantra & nothing is done to fix it."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

If you’ve ever worked for a large organisation, you will know it takes years to steer the ship in a different direction. Right now what do expect them to do? You seem to very good at bashing the met but there’s been zero suggestions as to how to implement change.

If there are 800 under investigation, what do you suggest happens to them until there is a conclusion?

The commissioner has barely got his feet under the table, all while inheriting a poisoned chalice that seems to be overflowing, he needs at least 12 months in the job for any meaningful change to be noticed."

A Set up an external unit to investigate the case. A truly external one. With actual power.

B Suspend any coppers who are under investigation until it's been completed.

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By *onnyJohnMan
over a year ago

Doncaster


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

Its a very large organisation, there are going to be a few, thats certainly not me excusing it you understand, simply a fact, there may appear to be too many (one is too many in truth) but remember, one in a organisation like that is going to be huge news, if as has been the case there are more it just compounds the notion that its riddled with wrong uns...

Im pretty sure the higher ups are doing things to trying to fix it..

I was in a organisation that was similar, we see from time to time news of people in the same organisation who have turned out to be wrong uns, it doesn't make the whole organisation bad.

There have been so many awful stories about the Met for so many years. Trying to shrug & wave it off at this point just won't wash."

Whos trying to shrug it off ? Im certainly not, like i said, one bad apple is too many, but wether you like it or not, there will always be bad uns in any large organisation, is the whole of the NHS murdering scum bags just because Harold Shipman was in it ?

As has been said, there are sever issues within the Met, issues which they are working to sort out and fix, these are not going to take effect instantly no matter how much we would like them to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

Its a very large organisation, there are going to be a few, thats certainly not me excusing it you understand, simply a fact, there may appear to be too many (one is too many in truth) but remember, one in a organisation like that is going to be huge news, if as has been the case there are more it just compounds the notion that its riddled with wrong uns...

Im pretty sure the higher ups are doing things to trying to fix it..

I was in a organisation that was similar, we see from time to time news of people in the same organisation who have turned out to be wrong uns, it doesn't make the whole organisation bad.

There have been so many awful stories about the Met for so many years. Trying to shrug & wave it off at this point just won't wash.

Whos trying to shrug it off ? Im certainly not, like i said, one bad apple is too many, but wether you like it or not, there will always be bad uns in any large organisation, is the whole of the NHS murdering scum bags just because Harold Shipman was in it ?

As has been said, there are sever issues within the Met, issues which they are working to sort out and fix, these are not going to take effect instantly no matter how much we would like them to. "

The old bad apples line sounds a lot like shrugging it off, that's all.

If they're actually working to sort it out, good for them. But after many years and many scandals, I think a lot of people are rightly v skeptical.

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By *oly Fuck Sticks BatmanCouple
over a year ago

here & there


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

If you’ve ever worked for a large organisation, you will know it takes years to steer the ship in a different direction. Right now what do expect them to do? You seem to very good at bashing the met but there’s been zero suggestions as to how to implement change.

If there are 800 under investigation, what do you suggest happens to them until there is a conclusion?

The commissioner has barely got his feet under the table, all while inheriting a poisoned chalice that seems to be overflowing, he needs at least 12 months in the job for any meaningful change to be noticed.

A Set up an external unit to investigate the case. A truly external one. With actual power.

B Suspend any coppers who are under investigation until it's been completed."

So with A it would take around 6-9 months to find suitably vetted personnel, then another 6-9 months to get the ball rolling - then how big is this super taskforce going to be to investigate 800 officers, say on average of 14 days per case (best result) that’s 11,200 days.

You can’t seriously be saying that you suspend all of them for a prolonged period of time without actually being charged with a crime?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

2023 - the year more civilians are arrested and found guilty than Met police staff?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

If you’ve ever worked for a large organisation, you will know it takes years to steer the ship in a different direction. Right now what do expect them to do? You seem to very good at bashing the met but there’s been zero suggestions as to how to implement change.

If there are 800 under investigation, what do you suggest happens to them until there is a conclusion?

The commissioner has barely got his feet under the table, all while inheriting a poisoned chalice that seems to be overflowing, he needs at least 12 months in the job for any meaningful change to be noticed.

A Set up an external unit to investigate the case. A truly external one. With actual power.

B Suspend any coppers who are under investigation until it's been completed.

So with A it would take around 6-9 months to find suitably vetted personnel, then another 6-9 months to get the ball rolling - then how big is this super taskforce going to be to investigate 800 officers, say on average of 14 days per case (best result) that’s 11,200 days.

You can’t seriously be saying that you suspend all of them for a prolonged period of time without actually being charged with a crime?"

There's no good solution. But project down the line to eg a year from now. You could end up in this situation...

Officer X was under investigation for r*ping 3 women. He was susequently found guilty. Also, while still working as an officer, he r*ped a further 3 women. The Met knew of various allegations & warnings, but did not even suspend him...

That situation would be far worse.

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By *onnyJohnMan
over a year ago

Doncaster


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

Its a very large organisation, there are going to be a few, thats certainly not me excusing it you understand, simply a fact, there may appear to be too many (one is too many in truth) but remember, one in a organisation like that is going to be huge news, if as has been the case there are more it just compounds the notion that its riddled with wrong uns...

Im pretty sure the higher ups are doing things to trying to fix it..

I was in a organisation that was similar, we see from time to time news of people in the same organisation who have turned out to be wrong uns, it doesn't make the whole organisation bad.

There have been so many awful stories about the Met for so many years. Trying to shrug & wave it off at this point just won't wash.

Whos trying to shrug it off ? Im certainly not, like i said, one bad apple is too many, but wether you like it or not, there will always be bad uns in any large organisation, is the whole of the NHS murdering scum bags just because Harold Shipman was in it ?

As has been said, there are sever issues within the Met, issues which they are working to sort out and fix, these are not going to take effect instantly no matter how much we would like them to.

The old bad apples line sounds a lot like shrugging it off, that's all.

If they're actually working to sort it out, good for them. But after many years and many scandals, I think a lot of people are rightly v skeptical."

Certainly not shrugging it off, people can respond to these types of things without resorting to "hang the bastard's" or "they're all guilty, sack the f**kin lot".. granted you didn't say those things but it sounds a lot like you were heading that way..

See what i did there? Making assumptions about what people mean or what you 'think' they mean rarely works, you assumed i was shrugging it off, and i deliberately made a example of myself assuming you were heading or meaning something which you didn't.. it doesn't work well.

I agree with you many people are and will be skeptical, and rightly so, for the reasons you mention.. we see these promises of change many times, how often have we heard 'never again' when a child is failed by social services.. but change does happen, it does take time, its never perfect, and as you say we should always remain skeptical.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Perhaps the Met is too big to control now, and should rightly be broken up into smaller regional police forces that make it more easy to tightly run them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

Its a very large organisation, there are going to be a few, thats certainly not me excusing it you understand, simply a fact, there may appear to be too many (one is too many in truth) but remember, one in a organisation like that is going to be huge news, if as has been the case there are more it just compounds the notion that its riddled with wrong uns...

Im pretty sure the higher ups are doing things to trying to fix it..

I was in a organisation that was similar, we see from time to time news of people in the same organisation who have turned out to be wrong uns, it doesn't make the whole organisation bad.

There have been so many awful stories about the Met for so many years. Trying to shrug & wave it off at this point just won't wash.

Whos trying to shrug it off ? Im certainly not, like i said, one bad apple is too many, but wether you like it or not, there will always be bad uns in any large organisation, is the whole of the NHS murdering scum bags just because Harold Shipman was in it ?

As has been said, there are sever issues within the Met, issues which they are working to sort out and fix, these are not going to take effect instantly no matter how much we would like them to.

The old bad apples line sounds a lot like shrugging it off, that's all.

If they're actually working to sort it out, good for them. But after many years and many scandals, I think a lot of people are rightly v skeptical.

Certainly not shrugging it off, people can respond to these types of things without resorting to "hang the bastard's" or "they're all guilty, sack the f**kin lot".. granted you didn't say those things but it sounds a lot like you were heading that way..

See what i did there? Making assumptions about what people mean or what you 'think' they mean rarely works, you assumed i was shrugging it off, and i deliberately made a example of myself assuming you were heading or meaning something which you didn't.. it doesn't work well.

I agree with you many people are and will be skeptical, and rightly so, for the reasons you mention.. we see these promises of change many times, how often have we heard 'never again' when a child is failed by social services.. but change does happen, it does take time, its never perfect, and as you say we should always remain skeptical.

"

Pretty sure I've said several times there are good people in the Met. So no I'm not hinting at the things you said at all.

It was just the bad apples line you trotted out. That line has been used sooooooo many times to excuse the situations that crop up with the Met time & time again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Perhaps the Met is too big to control now, and should rightly be broken up into smaller regional police forces that make it more easy to tightly run them. "

It's a thought. Is there some sort of evidence smaller forces are better?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Perhaps the Met is too big to control now, and should rightly be broken up into smaller regional police forces that make it more easy to tightly run them.

It's a thought. Is there some sort of evidence smaller forces are better?"

I don't know enough about this to have an opinion about it. All I do know from personal life experience working in large organisations or doing group work is that larger groups aren't always better to manage. And it also takes a special kind of boss to run a tight ship no matter large or small.

Met upper management has been too lax with standards and complaints about their officer subordinates. But I won't be surprised if it is just as much because they are snowed in with too much paperwork and management BS to want to deal with more complaints about their officers piling into their in tray, as it is about pure laziness.

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By *oly Fuck Sticks BatmanCouple
over a year ago

here & there


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

If you’ve ever worked for a large organisation, you will know it takes years to steer the ship in a different direction. Right now what do expect them to do? You seem to very good at bashing the met but there’s been zero suggestions as to how to implement change.

If there are 800 under investigation, what do you suggest happens to them until there is a conclusion?

The commissioner has barely got his feet under the table, all while inheriting a poisoned chalice that seems to be overflowing, he needs at least 12 months in the job for any meaningful change to be noticed.

A Set up an external unit to investigate the case. A truly external one. With actual power.

B Suspend any coppers who are under investigation until it's been completed.

So with A it would take around 6-9 months to find suitably vetted personnel, then another 6-9 months to get the ball rolling - then how big is this super taskforce going to be to investigate 800 officers, say on average of 14 days per case (best result) that’s 11,200 days.

You can’t seriously be saying that you suspend all of them for a prolonged period of time without actually being charged with a crime?

There's no good solution. But project down the line to eg a year from now. You could end up in this situation...

Officer X was under investigation for r*ping 3 women. He was susequently found guilty. Also, while still working as an officer, he r*ped a further 3 women. The Met knew of various allegations & warnings, but did not even suspend him...

That situation would be far worse."

These investigations are private & should remain so - how many spurious claims are made against the police each year? It’s because of these false allegations that major ones slip through the net.

There is no easy solution to routing out corruption in any organisation, all you can do is follow the processes, let’s not forget that fundamentally it’s down to the cps whether or not to proceed with the weight of evidence. If they choose not to proceed then there is no case to answer - you can’t sack someone for having a feeling that someone was dodgy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

If you’ve ever worked for a large organisation, you will know it takes years to steer the ship in a different direction. Right now what do expect them to do? You seem to very good at bashing the met but there’s been zero suggestions as to how to implement change.

If there are 800 under investigation, what do you suggest happens to them until there is a conclusion?

The commissioner has barely got his feet under the table, all while inheriting a poisoned chalice that seems to be overflowing, he needs at least 12 months in the job for any meaningful change to be noticed.

A Set up an external unit to investigate the case. A truly external one. With actual power.

B Suspend any coppers who are under investigation until it's been completed.

So with A it would take around 6-9 months to find suitably vetted personnel, then another 6-9 months to get the ball rolling - then how big is this super taskforce going to be to investigate 800 officers, say on average of 14 days per case (best result) that’s 11,200 days.

You can’t seriously be saying that you suspend all of them for a prolonged period of time without actually being charged with a crime?

There's no good solution. But project down the line to eg a year from now. You could end up in this situation...

Officer X was under investigation for r*ping 3 women. He was susequently found guilty. Also, while still working as an officer, he r*ped a further 3 women. The Met knew of various allegations & warnings, but did not even suspend him...

That situation would be far worse.

These investigations are private & should remain so - how many spurious claims are made against the police each year? It’s because of these false allegations that major ones slip through the net.

There is no easy solution to routing out corruption in any organisation, all you can do is follow the processes, let’s not forget that fundamentally it’s down to the cps whether or not to proceed with the weight of evidence. If they choose not to proceed then there is no case to answer - you can’t sack someone for having a feeling that someone was dodgy.

"

Pretty sure I didn't say to sack someone on a feeling. But I did show why I think it's a good idea to suspend some1 who's under investatigation.

You disagree. That's life I guess. We're all different.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

If you’ve ever worked for a large organisation, you will know it takes years to steer the ship in a different direction. Right now what do expect them to do? You seem to very good at bashing the met but there’s been zero suggestions as to how to implement change.

If there are 800 under investigation, what do you suggest happens to them until there is a conclusion?

The commissioner has barely got his feet under the table, all while inheriting a poisoned chalice that seems to be overflowing, he needs at least 12 months in the job for any meaningful change to be noticed.

A Set up an external unit to investigate the case. A truly external one. With actual power.

B Suspend any coppers who are under investigation until it's been completed.

So with A it would take around 6-9 months to find suitably vetted personnel, then another 6-9 months to get the ball rolling - then how big is this super taskforce going to be to investigate 800 officers, say on average of 14 days per case (best result) that’s 11,200 days.

You can’t seriously be saying that you suspend all of them for a prolonged period of time without actually being charged with a crime?

There's no good solution. But project down the line to eg a year from now. You could end up in this situation...

Officer X was under investigation for r*ping 3 women. He was susequently found guilty. Also, while still working as an officer, he r*ped a further 3 women. The Met knew of various allegations & warnings, but did not even suspend him...

That situation would be far worse."

Every officer being investigated by IOPC and I think even the internal professional standards is reviewed as to their suitability to continue working. Some are suspended, sone carry on working and alone are put on amended duties

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By *onnyJohnMan
over a year ago

Doncaster


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

Its a very large organisation, there are going to be a few, thats certainly not me excusing it you understand, simply a fact, there may appear to be too many (one is too many in truth) but remember, one in a organisation like that is going to be huge news, if as has been the case there are more it just compounds the notion that its riddled with wrong uns...

Im pretty sure the higher ups are doing things to trying to fix it..

I was in a organisation that was similar, we see from time to time news of people in the same organisation who have turned out to be wrong uns, it doesn't make the whole organisation bad.

There have been so many awful stories about the Met for so many years. Trying to shrug & wave it off at this point just won't wash.

Whos trying to shrug it off ? Im certainly not, like i said, one bad apple is too many, but wether you like it or not, there will always be bad uns in any large organisation, is the whole of the NHS murdering scum bags just because Harold Shipman was in it ?

As has been said, there are sever issues within the Met, issues which they are working to sort out and fix, these are not going to take effect instantly no matter how much we would like them to.

The old bad apples line sounds a lot like shrugging it off, that's all.

If they're actually working to sort it out, good for them. But after many years and many scandals, I think a lot of people are rightly v skeptical.

Certainly not shrugging it off, people can respond to these types of things without resorting to "hang the bastard's" or "they're all guilty, sack the f**kin lot".. granted you didn't say those things but it sounds a lot like you were heading that way..

See what i did there? Making assumptions about what people mean or what you 'think' they mean rarely works, you assumed i was shrugging it off, and i deliberately made a example of myself assuming you were heading or meaning something which you didn't.. it doesn't work well.

I agree with you many people are and will be skeptical, and rightly so, for the reasons you mention.. we see these promises of change many times, how often have we heard 'never again' when a child is failed by social services.. but change does happen, it does take time, its never perfect, and as you say we should always remain skeptical.

Pretty sure I've said several times there are good people in the Met. So no I'm not hinting at the things you said at all.

It was just the bad apples line you trotted out. That line has been used sooooooo many times to excuse the situations that crop up with the Met time & time again.

"

Exactly my point, you made assumptions, so did i, both are wrong..

What we can agree on is there needs to be fundamental change, and meaningful fundamental change.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London


"Perhaps the Met is too big to control now, and should rightly be broken up into smaller regional police forces that make it more easy to tightly run them.

It's a thought. Is there some sort of evidence smaller forces are better?

I don't know enough about this to have an opinion about it. All I do know from personal life experience working in large organisations or doing group work is that larger groups aren't always better to manage. And it also takes a special kind of boss to run a tight ship no matter large or small.

Met upper management has been too lax with standards and complaints about their officer subordinates. But I won't be surprised if it is just as much because they are snowed in with too much paperwork and management BS to want to deal with more complaints about their officers piling into their in tray, as it is about pure laziness. "

Met upper management dont investigate complaints, depending on the nature either professional standards do or the IOPC do. And it is literally their entire job role to investigate complaints and concerns raised against officers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

There are wrong uns in all organisations, no matter how strict the entry requirements, there will always be a few who get through the vetting..

Problem A: there seem to be a lot more than a few in the Met.

Problem B: the Met seem to be doing bugger all to fix this.

If you’ve ever worked for a large organisation, you will know it takes years to steer the ship in a different direction. Right now what do expect them to do? You seem to very good at bashing the met but there’s been zero suggestions as to how to implement change.

If there are 800 under investigation, what do you suggest happens to them until there is a conclusion?

The commissioner has barely got his feet under the table, all while inheriting a poisoned chalice that seems to be overflowing, he needs at least 12 months in the job for any meaningful change to be noticed.

A Set up an external unit to investigate the case. A truly external one. With actual power.

B Suspend any coppers who are under investigation until it's been completed.

So with A it would take around 6-9 months to find suitably vetted personnel, then another 6-9 months to get the ball rolling - then how big is this super taskforce going to be to investigate 800 officers, say on average of 14 days per case (best result) that’s 11,200 days.

You can’t seriously be saying that you suspend all of them for a prolonged period of time without actually being charged with a crime?

There's no good solution. But project down the line to eg a year from now. You could end up in this situation...

Officer X was under investigation for r*ping 3 women. He was susequently found guilty. Also, while still working as an officer, he r*ped a further 3 women. The Met knew of various allegations & warnings, but did not even suspend him...

That situation would be far worse.

Every officer being investigated by IOPC and I think even the internal professional standards is reviewed as to their suitability to continue working. Some are suspended, sone carry on working and alone are put on amended duties"

Read up about Carrick. Based on his case, the previous process you mention seems v insufficient.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London


"How many women are not surprised at the behaviour described? How many times a day do you get messages with men wanting to do those things? "

And similarly how many women trust the MET?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How many women are not surprised at the behaviour described? How many times a day do you get messages with men wanting to do those things?

And similarly how many women trust the MET? "

Fewer than used to trust it, I'd bet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Marina Hyde's recent article about Carrick & the Met makes for an excoriating read.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When people work in very stressful situations and very extreme locations they can become susceptible to very eccentric behaviour traits and they find ways of justifying it…. I was in the military for a lot of years and experienced it for myself

People who are exposed to traumatic experiences really should be monitored and supported very closely.

I confess I have not looked closely at Carrick’s history and he may have had no exposure to traumatic stress, but if he has… it could go a long way to explaining what he has done.

I must emphasise that does not make what he did in any way less horrific than it was. And I don’t suppose any of his victims have any sympathy for the man’s psychological state.

As always happens in these cases it becomes apparent that alarm bells were ringing but nobody paid attention. Maybe procedures will be adopted so that “alarm bells” will be investigated"

Yep, no excusing any behaviour at all but the job must be traumatic enough to warrant the workforce being closely monitored/helped to deal with what they see and hear so it doesn't twist them mentally.

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By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island

I’ve always said that you cannot openly support the Police without holding them to account.

As much as I support them, and the time I did as a Comms officer, this is a shockingly poor handling of someone in the Met ranks.

At this point, the Met should be disbanded as, in my view, the damage has well and truly been done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I was a young lad growing up I thought police were all angels, until I got arrested for a minor offence and then I could see what they were like.

My friend was a police officer and he left the job because of so much corruption. Once he arrested someone and the Sargent went berserk with him because he was his mate.

I know there is good and bad in all walks of life. However with the power they have some think they're untouchable.

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By *landElCouple
over a year ago

Kent


"Gonna say it again. 800."

A lot (not all) will likely be malicious or very low level. Pretty sure it's not 800 Carricks under investigation. What this man has done is beyond evil way beyond. I truly hope any other people that were subject to his depravity are strong enough to come forward and ensure he is never released.

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By *asycouple1971 OP   Couple
over a year ago

midlands

Another MET police officer in the news today that has pleaded guilty to child sex offences.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How many women are not surprised at the behaviour described? How many times a day do you get messages with men wanting to do those things? "

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

“I’m not saying it’s just a few bad apples, it’s more than that - there are system failings,”

That's from the head of the Met Sir Mark Rowley, he's quoted in the Independent andvi assume other media sources.

He also said that in coming weeks there are multiple officers in court.

So I'm interested is anyone still defending it as a few bad apples?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"“I’m not saying it’s just a few bad apples, it’s more than that - there are system failings,”

That's from the head of the Met Sir Mark Rowley, he's quoted in the Independent andvi assume other media sources.

He also said that in coming weeks there are multiple officers in court.

So I'm interested is anyone still defending it as a few bad apples?"

You’ve not been on the forums very long if you have to ask

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The root problem is poor leadership. Lower and middle managers who do not have the moral courage to maintain standards in their teams and hold wrongdoers to account. Usually because they are all mates, and reliant on each other both for their own safety and to get the job done.

A manager who does try to deal with anything is often seen as rocking the boat and creating problems for senior management. A career destroying move.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West


"The root problem is poor leadership. Lower and middle managers who do not have the moral courage to maintain standards in their teams and hold wrongdoers to account. Usually because they are all mates, and reliant on each other both for their own safety and to get the job done.

A manager who does try to deal with anything is often seen as rocking the boat and creating problems for senior management. A career destroying move."

My issue is lack of back up from HR. They're so scared of doing ANYTHING about under performance. All attempts to get things done have been met with quivering and "what if". Not helpful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The root problem is poor leadership. Lower and middle managers who do not have the moral courage to maintain standards in their teams and hold wrongdoers to account. Usually because they are all mates, and reliant on each other both for their own safety and to get the job done.

A manager who does try to deal with anything is often seen as rocking the boat and creating problems for senior management. A career destroying move."

I’m sure you’re right on many points. I disagree with you to blame middle management wholly.

Leadership comes from the top. If leadership is in denial of the issue of institutional racism, corruption and bad cops, nothing will change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The root problem is poor leadership. Lower and middle managers who do not have the moral courage to maintain standards in their teams and hold wrongdoers to account. Usually because they are all mates, and reliant on each other both for their own safety and to get the job done.

A manager who does try to deal with anything is often seen as rocking the boat and creating problems for senior management. A career destroying move.

I’m sure you’re right on many points. I disagree with you to blame middle management wholly.

Leadership comes from the top. If leadership is in denial of the issue of institutional racism, corruption and bad cops, nothing will change. "

It's leadership throughout, but I take your point. These things will be spotted by lower and middle managers, but the senior managers have to trust their judgement and be prepared to act on it themselves. Yes if the lower and middle managers have no confidence that their seniors will act, then they will just think, what's the point?

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

Their is a majority of good and bad within the Met some turn a blind eye to what they hear or know so it doesn't effect their own career. But whilst the Met is supposedly being vetted most of the crimes are being committed whilst joining and complaints just get swept away. I can't honestly see the forces getting vetted it's only a public stunt. Even recently few high rank officers have been charged for cropping fellow colleagues at parties but given a suspended sentence the punishment is getting softer whereas folk within the Met for Scotland yard it's not been the first time they have been under investigation so be another cover up.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Their is a majority of good and bad within the Met some turn a blind eye to what they hear or know so it doesn't effect their own career. But whilst the Met is supposedly being vetted most of the crimes are being committed whilst joining and complaints just get swept away. I can't honestly see the forces getting vetted it's only a public stunt. Even recently few high rank officers have been charged for cropping fellow colleagues at parties but given a suspended sentence the punishment is getting softer whereas folk within the Met for Scotland yard it's not been the first time they have been under investigation so be another cover up....."

Totally agree. The re-vetting of all officers, and staff is nothing more than a publicity stunt, so they can be seen to be doing something. Basic vetting is a very low level and nothing more than a trawl of known databases. If the subjects had done anything real naughty, it will have already flagged up. Complete waste of time and resources. Investigate the buggers you know about, properly, and lean on their mates, like they do with crims.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Their is a majority of good and bad within the Met some turn a blind eye to what they hear or know so it doesn't effect their own career. But whilst the Met is supposedly being vetted most of the crimes are being committed whilst joining and complaints just get swept away. I can't honestly see the forces getting vetted it's only a public stunt. Even recently few high rank officers have been charged for cropping fellow colleagues at parties but given a suspended sentence the punishment is getting softer whereas folk within the Met for Scotland yard it's not been the first time they have been under investigation so be another cover up....."

I don’t really understand the above post.

There’s been no cover up. Just leadership not taking responsibility or admitting it’s failures.

If you can’t recognise one’s failings you can’t begin to fix anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Their is a majority of good and bad within the Met some turn a blind eye to what they hear or know so it doesn't effect their own career. But whilst the Met is supposedly being vetted most of the crimes are being committed whilst joining and complaints just get swept away. I can't honestly see the forces getting vetted it's only a public stunt. Even recently few high rank officers have been charged for cropping fellow colleagues at parties but given a suspended sentence the punishment is getting softer whereas folk within the Met for Scotland yard it's not been the first time they have been under investigation so be another cover up.....

Totally agree. The re-vetting of all officers, and staff is nothing more than a publicity stunt, so they can be seen to be doing something. Basic vetting is a very low level and nothing more than a trawl of known databases. If the subjects had done anything real naughty, it will have already flagged up. Complete waste of time and resources. Investigate the buggers you know about, properly, and lean on their mates, like they do with crims."

All police officers WhatsApp should be accessed. Or they leave the force.

We all know how cops enjoy their dirty, racist, misogynistic WhatsApp groups that incriminate their own criminality.

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle


"Their is a majority of good and bad within the Met some turn a blind eye to what they hear or know so it doesn't effect their own career. But whilst the Met is supposedly being vetted most of the crimes are being committed whilst joining and complaints just get swept away. I can't honestly see the forces getting vetted it's only a public stunt. Even recently few high rank officers have been charged for cropping fellow colleagues at parties but given a suspended sentence the punishment is getting softer whereas folk within the Met for Scotland yard it's not been the first time they have been under investigation so be another cover up.....

Totally agree. The re-vetting of all officers, and staff is nothing more than a publicity stunt, so they can be seen to be doing something. Basic vetting is a very low level and nothing more than a trawl of known databases. If the subjects had done anything real naughty, it will have already flagged up. Complete waste of time and resources. Investigate the buggers you know about, properly, and lean on their mates, like they do with crims."

Exactly and the reason why it's came to this even though their had been more than several complaints against an officer but got ignored and officer was able to join other forces without acknowledging previous notes which just got brushed under the carpet the Met was never fit for purpose and never will be far too much corruption... I just feel sorry for the genuine ones because they get judged

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle


"Their is a majority of good and bad within the Met some turn a blind eye to what they hear or know so it doesn't effect their own career. But whilst the Met is supposedly being vetted most of the crimes are being committed whilst joining and complaints just get swept away. I can't honestly see the forces getting vetted it's only a public stunt. Even recently few high rank officers have been charged for cropping fellow colleagues at parties but given a suspended sentence the punishment is getting softer whereas folk within the Met for Scotland yard it's not been the first time they have been under investigation so be another cover up.....

I don’t really understand the above post.

There’s been no cover up. Just leadership not taking responsibility or admitting it’s failures.

If you can’t recognise one’s failings you can’t begin to fix anything. "

Not taking something serious and turning a blind eye hoping it'll just smooth over is what happens people put complaints for a reason yet get made to look like liars because an officer never lies corruption has been going on for decades they just have a better way to cover things up until it becomes impossible

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible. "

A Nurse is currently on trial for murdering babies... the NHS Trust tried to cover it.

Harold Shipman

Beverly Allit....

But we don't demonise healthcare professionals do we

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

A Nurse is currently on trial for murdering babies... the NHS Trust tried to cover it.

Harold Shipman

Beverly Allit....

But we don't demonise healthcare professionals do we"

Ajd bynthe head if the Met's own admission in coming weeks theor are multiple Met officers facing troll on the main for offences against women.

I'm not sure how, when even the most senior person within the Met is admitting this isn't just a few bad apples this is demonising anyone. It's accountability

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

A Nurse is currently on trial for murdering babies... the NHS Trust tried to cover it.

Harold Shipman

Beverly Allit....

But we don't demonise healthcare professionals do we

Ajd bynthe head if the Met's own admission in coming weeks theor are multiple Met officers facing troll on the main for offences against women.

I'm not sure how, when even the most senior person within the Met is admitting this isn't just a few bad apples this is demonising anyone. It's accountability"

But people are demonising the Police.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There will be loads of dodgy people in the police. You get dodgy people in all walks of life.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

A Nurse is currently on trial for murdering babies... the NHS Trust tried to cover it.

Harold Shipman

Beverly Allit....

But we don't demonise healthcare professionals do we

Ajd bynthe head if the Met's own admission in coming weeks theor are multiple Met officers facing troll on the main for offences against women.

I'm not sure how, when even the most senior person within the Met is admitting this isn't just a few bad apples this is demonising anyone. It's accountability

But people are demonising the Police. "

Demonising suggests that the attention that they ate getting is somehow unwarranted or unfair though?

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By *batMan
over a year ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)


"I’ve always said that you cannot openly support the Police without holding them to account.

As much as I support them, and the time I did as a Comms officer, this is a shockingly poor handling of someone in the Met ranks.

At this point, the Met should be disbanded as, in my view, the damage has well and truly been done. "

How would you go about disbanding a Police Force?

A quick google of the numbers of people.

34,244 Police officers. 10,084 Police staff. 1,176 Police community support officers. That's a lot of people.

Would you, for instance, just sack them all? (That would be very illegal, most of them are doing an adequate or even excellent job).

Transfer them all elsewhere? (That would be very illegal and only shift problems elsewhere. You can't make another force accept them and you can't make someone move halfway across the country when they've done nothing wrong).

Would you have a spare 45,000 or so people waiting in the wings to replace the disbanded people and if so, where are you getting them from?

Where and when are you training the 45,000 replacement people? Blimey, whose footing the bill for that? We can't even pay UK nurses their true worth now, let alone funding an extra 45,000 people through a training programme pending a disbandment.

If the Met's current vetting procedures are poor, then whose vetting the new 45,000 people?

Do you even think there would be 45,000 living close enough that want to do the job?

In summary, how do you disband the largest Police Force in the UK? What would that even look like?

Genuine questions by the way.

Gbat

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible.

A Nurse is currently on trial for murdering babies... the NHS Trust tried to cover it.

Harold Shipman

Beverly Allit....

But we don't demonise healthcare professionals do we

Ajd bynthe head if the Met's own admission in coming weeks theor are multiple Met officers facing troll on the main for offences against women.

I'm not sure how, when even the most senior person within the Met is admitting this isn't just a few bad apples this is demonising anyone. It's accountability

But people are demonising the Police.

Demonising suggests that the attention that they ate getting is somehow unwarranted or unfair though?

"

To you it does, to me it doesn't....You have your opinion I have mine.

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38


"Britains worst serial rapist was an officer for The Met.

Sarah Everard was killed by an officer from The Met.

How many more bad apples are there that are corrupt, covering up and pure evil.

Did an innocent person get put away for David Carricks crimes?

Why was he not caught or investigated?

I hope hes put in prison and the rest of the inmates gets to him.

Our tax money going on his upkeep is terrible. "

It must be awful when you are a decent good police officer to become tarred with the same brush.

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38


"There will be loads of dodgy people in the police. You get dodgy people in all walks of life. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There will be loads of dodgy people in the police. You get dodgy people in all walks of life.

"

Correct and many in the police will be cunts more than if they weren't in the police, because they feel they can get away with it in that job. Fact!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There will be loads of dodgy people in the police. You get dodgy people in all walks of life. "

I feel this post completely misses the point.

The police deal with life & death situations. They're supposedly there to protect & help those desperately in need of help. We need to be able to trust them & rely on them.

Also, bad police are far more dangerous than - to take a random example - a bad road sweeper.

A bad road sweeper might do a crap job or shout at someone.

A bad copper might literally kill people then use their expertise & contacts to cover it up. Or they may steal money/drugs from crime in huge amounts. Or they may prey on vulnerable women they come into contact with then threaten them into silence by saying they're police etc

Bad police are v well situated to do v bad things if they wish. It's why the police force really really really need to remove any bad coppers from active service.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only difference between a good copper and a good criminal is a conscience.

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

I just hope that we get the changes and those brought forward get punished vetted just becomes something that happens at the vet eventually I can see the public taking action like vigilantes to protect the public as majority or not fit for purpose

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