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Which side of the fence...

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By *phrodite OP   Woman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

Just upfront: I am NOT asking about a specific opinion for example whether people like Labour or the Tories, support strikes or not and believe children should have more or fewer rights. I sometimes feel for the one and at other times for the other side of a debate.

I am asking about what I see as an increasing trend towards polarisation in society about the most important and even the most trivial things, so if you are a Tory support you cannot possibly support anything Labour suggests and vice versa.

Do people agree that our society is becoming more and more polarised and that this is not necessarily a good thing?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Yes I do agree and the inability to see or consider other people's opinion isn't a good trait in my view

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By *phrodite OP   Woman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland


"Yes I do agree and the inability to see or consider other people's opinion isn't a good trait in my view"

I agree, alongside the polarisation tolerance and listening skills seem to be disappearing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'll go with someone who actually tells the truth rather than fulfilling there own agenda

But as we are all led to believe these days "we can't handle the truth" apparently

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Yes I do agree and the inability to see or consider other people's opinion isn't a good trait in my view

I agree, alongside the polarisation tolerance and listening skills seem to be disappearing. "

Listening and reading comprehension seem to be declining. I don't think all is lost though, there are those who will happily engage in actual discussion rather than outright argument.

I think it might be that we're living through difficult times, people fear for their livelihood and living standards. It makes them/us less likely to tolerate difference

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By *phrodite OP   Woman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland


"I'll go with someone who actually tells the truth rather than fulfilling there own agenda

But as we are all led to believe these days "we can't handle the truth" apparently "

I have not heard this and I am curious, where did you see that, please?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The art of reasoned debate and discussion has long disappeared from a large majority of folk.

It seems to be a case of “I have my opinion, and everyone else’s is wrong”

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By *adMerWoman
over a year ago

Sandwich

Most definitely.

I do feel that the tide is turning though. More and more people will find their path to healing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'll go with someone who actually tells the truth rather than fulfilling there own agenda

But as we are all led to believe these days "we can't handle the truth" apparently

I have not heard this and I am curious, where did you see that, please? "

Few good men...Jack Nicholson

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

UK politics is increasingly becoming Americanised in terms of polarising nature.

And weirdly enough for this "woke era" we live in, society and the younger generation is far more likely and willing to crucify anybody who openly holds an opposing stance to their beliefs and values, or worse still change their mind and admit it in public.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My take on polarization.

People feel distant from and suspicious of the “other” camp. They feel loyal to, and trusting of, their own camp without examining their biases or having an actual factual basis for their information, being reliant on what is drip from, mass/social media.

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By *phrodite OP   Woman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

I was thinking of the example of the Meghan/ Harry saga and as I stated earlier, I am not asking people what they think of them. witnessed a conversation (if you could call it that) the other day where somebody was hinting at not condemning them outright, and these genuine and pleasant people were immediately attacked and vilified as extreme left/ woke etc.

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By *phrodite OP   Woman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot.."

Which would enable the powers to be (any powers to be) to then divide and rule?

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"Just upfront: I am NOT asking about a specific opinion for example whether people like Labour or the Tories, support strikes or not and believe children should have more or fewer rights. I sometimes feel for the one and at other times for the other side of a debate.

I am asking about what I see as an increasing trend towards polarisation in society about the most important and even the most trivial things, so if you are a Tory support you cannot possibly support anything Labour suggests and vice versa.

Do people agree that our society is becoming more and more polarised and that this is not necessarily a good thing?

"

Yes I agree. The ability, willingness, effort and skills required to form and hold our own opinions seems to be diminishing. To all of our costs. The ability to discuss and open our minds to others opinions is also diminishing. From learned discourse we grow and develop...or not.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

Priorities. People often go to the extreme for how their priorities on subjects are, and what else they conflict with.

Somebody who is extremely passionate about the NHS may never be able to see past that and see certain other policies that are "good". While those that are xenophobic will focus on that and not even consider the impact on may cause for other things.

People become blind to these things, and thus go further inward and surround themselves with it, becoming comfortable and loyal to whoever shares that view.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

Which would enable the powers to be (any powers to be) to then divide and rule?"

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By *essiCouple
over a year ago

suffolk


"The art of reasoned debate and discussion has long disappeared from a large majority of folk.

It seems to be a case of “I have my opinion, and everyone else’s is wrong”"

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot.."

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

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By *phrodite OP   Woman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland


"Priorities. People often go to the extreme for how their priorities on subjects are, and what else they conflict with.

Somebody who is extremely passionate about the NHS may never be able to see past that and see certain other policies that are "good". While those that are xenophobic will focus on that and not even consider the impact on may cause for other things.

People become blind to these things, and thus go further inward and surround themselves with it, becoming comfortable and loyal to whoever shares that view. "
And this is made worse I think by social media where algorithms place you into an echo chamber where all you get is more of the same.... there seem to be conversations/ discussions on social media, but actually they are only reinforcements of whatever belief you held in the first place.

Recent elections, Brexit, the topic of racism, vaccinations etc all seem to suggest this.

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By *phrodite OP   Woman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem. "

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical?

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By *penbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Northampton


"Do people agree that our society is becoming more and more polarised and that this is not necessarily a good thing? "

Yes, I think society is becoming more polarised. That can be a good thing, but not necessarily so.

I also think we often become polarised around the wrong issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical? "

Education gives power to the masses, why would any government ruling dictatorship want that, as education also brings freedom...its control, divide and conquer, keep the hoi polloi in there place

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

I think there is an increase in people who are fixated on a single issue and then see everything through the lens of that issue. They are often pretty dogmatic and will attack anyone who offers a different view.

I think the fact that social media allows you to “signal” which group you are “in” and one of the best ways to “signal” is to use extreme language just ramps things up.

People need to learn that every side of an argument has pros and cons and someone who is on the other side is not the devil incarnate.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem. "

Am not suggesting it is but it's part of the reason why the bigger issues are not gripped by any government with the population dragging them kicking and screaming to address said issues..

And yes agree with the education point but that's also one built in fail safe to enable the system (for want of a better word) to continue to keep the status quo..

The education system we have is designed to produce the workers to keep the system functioning which in turn profits those at the highest echelons of the system, education is a loose interpretation of it..

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical? "

Cynical? No

Accurate? Hell yes.

Just look at how people lapped up the BS thrown around during brexit, the last election and through the covid crisis.

If people had really been educated the government wouldn't have got away with half the things they said and people would actually be holding them accountable for not fulfilling promises made, sticking to and following theough with election manifesto policies, and I doubt they'd have got away with siphoning off billions of taxpayer money in the manner they did.

A

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By *ate_BMan
over a year ago

London

The art of discussion and having a sensible debate are disappearing fast. To me, it seems some in society are receptive to something bombastic rather than something humble and deciding they’re done with listening because the opposite doesn’t suit their narrative. Daily Mail/The Guardian. Boris Johnson/Jeremy Corbyn.

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By *phrodite OP   Woman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical?

Education gives power to the masses, why would any government ruling dictatorship want that, as education also brings freedom...its control, divide and conquer, keep the hoi polloi in there place "
Yep, that's is what I was thinking...

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By *phrodite OP   Woman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

So what can we do about polarisation? I mean at a practical level?

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

[Removed by poster at 14/01/23 18:23:58]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So what can we do about polarisation? I mean at a practical level? "

Short of mass unity which will never happen, because the institutional ingrained divide that there is in society, I feel not alot can be done

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical?

Cynical? No

Accurate? Hell yes.

Just look at how people lapped up the BS thrown around during brexit, the last election and through the covid crisis.

If people had really been educated the government wouldn't have got away with half the things they said and people would actually be holding them accountable for not fulfilling promises made, sticking to and following theough with election manifesto policies, and I doubt they'd have got away with siphoning off billions of taxpayer money in the manner they did.

A"

This post is the definition of polarisation to me.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical? "

Possibly. I am not a believer in governments conquering anything. Either due to their ability or simply... Why? What's in it for them? They are largely populated by incompetent career politicians who can't have a career in business. I am a believer in the large global corporations in doing exactly as you suggest. They have means motive and opportunity. They steer our thoughts via social media

And online activities. BBC no longer reports the news but creates and drives agendas that it's employees value. It only recruits employees that match their own values.

Interestingly, generally, tories are about small non intervening government and Labour about large, intervene in more government...

You have to have your wits about you at all times.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical?

Cynical? No

Accurate? Hell yes.

Just look at how people lapped up the BS thrown around during brexit, the last election and through the covid crisis.

If people had really been educated the government wouldn't have got away with half the things they said and people would actually be holding them accountable for not fulfilling promises made, sticking to and following theough with election manifesto policies, and I doubt they'd have got away with siphoning off billions of taxpayer money in the manner they did.

A

This post is the definition of polarisation to me. "

Why?

The answer relates to the question of is it in the government's best interests for people to be educated?

It bears no relation to polarisation at all.

A

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"So what can we do about polarisation? I mean at a practical level? "

Ultimately you reward the behaviours you want to achieve. There needs to be censorship. Accountability an Consequences. Good behaviours rewarded. Bad behaviours penalised.

Who decides good and bad? Tbc but we are fearful of offending the minorities while the majorities are manipulated. As somebody famous once said

. You can't please all the people all the time. Accept it and move on. We are not intelligent enough, competent enough to tolerate and embrace everything. So get the majority right. Pareto principle. Have some core principles and values that we can align around. Focuson what unites us rather than What divides us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello wonderful it’s been a long time hopefully everything ok with you x

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

They talk about bringing people together but create a divide

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By *penbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Northampton


"So what can we do about polarisation? I mean at a practical level? "

Easy. Say those who polarise are bad and those who don't are good.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical? "

I think you are wrong to equate more education with more critical thinking, especially in the context of polarisation. There is plenty of research showing that those with higher levels of education who perceive themselves as more intelligent tend to overvalue their own opinions and undervalue those of others. They are also more likely to have social circles of those with similar opinions.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical?

Cynical? No

Accurate? Hell yes.

Just look at how people lapped up the BS thrown around during brexit, the last election and through the covid crisis.

If people had really been educated the government wouldn't have got away with half the things they said and people would actually be holding them accountable for not fulfilling promises made, sticking to and following theough with election manifesto policies, and I doubt they'd have got away with siphoning off billions of taxpayer money in the manner they did.

A

This post is the definition of polarisation to me.

Why?

The answer relates to the question of is it in the government's best interests for people to be educated?

It bears no relation to polarisation at all.

A"

It is subtle but it is there. You response is not really about the governments “interest” in educating people is it? It’s about claiming that they are corrupt and the people who vote for them are sheep.

You lead with the “BS” around Brexit. I am assuming by that you are referring to the leave campaign - which wasn’t the government position. So much for a subservient population that does what the government wants.

You then go on to claim that the government has “siphoned off billions of pounds”. That spending was incredibly poorly managed (and probably negligent) but I have not actually seen any evidence of things being “siphoned off”.

I am not defending the government for one second but for me polarisation often happens because reasonable people meld arguments and actually believe they are answering one point but are really saying something else.

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

[Removed by poster at 14/01/23 18:48:59]

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

It clearly is becoming more polarised, but not how most perceive. Sure, the gap between the political left and right is certainly widening, but that's not all that's shifting. There's been a gradual migration of what's considered to be the centre over the last two or three decades too.

What used to be the far-right (small-state, pro-privatisation, pro-elite, etc.) is now considered just either right or centre-right. What used to be left (pro-nationalisation, NHS, employment rights, etc.) is drifting towards what some now are calling far-left, even though it's ideology hasn't shifted left at all. There's been no real leftward drift at the left, but quite a lot of rightward drift at the right, which has dragged what folks see as the centre ground between to the right with it. What used to be called the centre is now considered the left.

If the UK had a private health care system today and Labour proposed the formation of the NHS, it would be slammed as a far-left/communist aberration and Daily Heil/Express readers would be frothing at their mouths... it just wouldn't be allowed to happen. There are policies on the cabinet table today which even Thatcher would have considered waaay to her right and nobody is batting an eye.

It's not a good direction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical?

Education gives power to the masses, why would any government ruling dictatorship want that, as education also brings freedom...its control, divide and conquer, keep the hoi polloi in there place "

The Nazis drew a disproportionate support from educated professional classes. Highly educated people were also the main supporters of Communist tyranny in the Soviet union and China.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Kind of stepping off piste but.. Does it not depend on how one defines "education"?

Who is delivering it? What are the political leanings of what is being delivered? Are pupils allowed to challenge and explore are they marked equally depending upon their backgrounds? Do they have equal access to success however that may be defined?

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical?

Education gives power to the masses, why would any government ruling dictatorship want that, as education also brings freedom...its control, divide and conquer, keep the hoi polloi in there place

The Nazis drew a disproportionate support from educated professional classes. Highly educated people were also the main supporters of Communist tyranny in the Soviet union and China. "

Well, at first until they woke up to the shortcomings of each... and then those who remained after the purges to save their own skins.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical?

Cynical? No

Accurate? Hell yes.

Just look at how people lapped up the BS thrown around during brexit, the last election and through the covid crisis.

If people had really been educated the government wouldn't have got away with half the things they said and people would actually be holding them accountable for not fulfilling promises made, sticking to and following theough with election manifesto policies, and I doubt they'd have got away with siphoning off billions of taxpayer money in the manner they did.

A

This post is the definition of polarisation to me.

Why?

The answer relates to the question of is it in the government's best interests for people to be educated?

It bears no relation to polarisation at all.

A

It is subtle but it is there. You response is not really about the governments “interest” in educating people is it? It’s about claiming that they are corrupt and the people who vote for them are sheep.

You lead with the “BS” around Brexit. I am assuming by that you are referring to the leave campaign - which wasn’t the government position. So much for a subservient population that does what the government wants.

You then go on to claim that the government has “siphoned off billions of pounds”. That spending was incredibly poorly managed (and probably negligent) but I have not actually seen any evidence of things being “siphoned off”.

I am not defending the government for one second but for me polarisation often happens because reasonable people meld arguments and actually believe they are answering one point but are really saying something else."

Nope.

I'm old enough to have lived through both Tory and Labour governments (with a coalition thrown in too).

None have been perfect. But I've yet to see more blatant lying, fraud and disregard for the publics intelligence than I ever have from any government before this one.

The BS around brexit I refer to is post the referendum.

There's plenty of evidence of funds being siphoned off to supporters, donors and family.

The reason polarisation is so evident in the current climate is largely because those that rule say one thing and do another, break promises (and often laws) and consider themselves above those they claim to serve.

Two party politics has always had this issue. But the gap between the haves and the have nots has been growing over the last decade, driven by policy and fuelling more polarisation in everything from political belief, individual opportunity to enhance lives, ability to make ends meet and to a large extent life expectancy and personal health.

It has to change.

A

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By *r_North-EastMan
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

Tribalism. I don’t think most people are like that it’s just the ones that shout the loudest usually are.

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By *oeBeansMan
over a year ago

Derby

I think people are losing the ability to see the nuance and grey area and assumptions are way to easily made just because they don't agree. I feel as though people think that if you don't think X then you must think Y without asking why they don't agree with X in the first place if that makes sense?

Social media may have a lot to do with it as you lose the tone of voice and effort to write out a proper response that it's easier to take things at face value

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical?

Cynical? No

Accurate? Hell yes.

Just look at how people lapped up the BS thrown around during brexit, the last election and through the covid crisis.

If people had really been educated the government wouldn't have got away with half the things they said and people would actually be holding them accountable for not fulfilling promises made, sticking to and following theough with election manifesto policies, and I doubt they'd have got away with siphoning off billions of taxpayer money in the manner they did.

A

This post is the definition of polarisation to me.

Why?

The answer relates to the question of is it in the government's best interests for people to be educated?

It bears no relation to polarisation at all.

A

It is subtle but it is there. You response is not really about the governments “interest” in educating people is it? It’s about claiming that they are corrupt and the people who vote for them are sheep.

You lead with the “BS” around Brexit. I am assuming by that you are referring to the leave campaign - which wasn’t the government position. So much for a subservient population that does what the government wants.

You then go on to claim that the government has “siphoned off billions of pounds”. That spending was incredibly poorly managed (and probably negligent) but I have not actually seen any evidence of things being “siphoned off”.

I am not defending the government for one second but for me polarisation often happens because reasonable people meld arguments and actually believe they are answering one point but are really saying something else.

Nope.

I'm old enough to have lived through both Tory and Labour governments (with a coalition thrown in too).

None have been perfect. But I've yet to see more blatant lying, fraud and disregard for the publics intelligence than I ever have from any government before this one.

The BS around brexit I refer to is post the referendum.

There's plenty of evidence of funds being siphoned off to supporters, donors and family.

The reason polarisation is so evident in the current climate is largely because those that rule say one thing and do another, break promises (and often laws) and consider themselves above those they claim to serve.

Two party politics has always had this issue. But the gap between the haves and the have nots has been growing over the last decade, driven by policy and fuelling more polarisation in everything from political belief, individual opportunity to enhance lives, ability to make ends meet and to a large extent life expectancy and personal health.

It has to change.

A"

And how is all of that connected to “The answer relates to the question of is it in the government's best interests for people to be educated?” ?

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"It is yes but it's not by accident whatever the issue, for some it's simply the easiest option to go with x rather than y..

Manipulation and division of many by some has been around since the year dot..

I'm not convinced that is the biggest problem though (and yes I do think there is manipulation and misinformation going on), I think our laziness and lack of education and applied intelligence and desire to discover and learn is a much bigger problem.

I am going to provocative here...

I do not believe it is in our Government's interest to really educate people. It would turn followers into critical thinkers... which would not suit a Government (any Government btw)

Am I being cynical?

Cynical? No

Accurate? Hell yes.

Just look at how people lapped up the BS thrown around during brexit, the last election and through the covid crisis.

If people had really been educated the government wouldn't have got away with half the things they said and people would actually be holding them accountable for not fulfilling promises made, sticking to and following theough with election manifesto policies, and I doubt they'd have got away with siphoning off billions of taxpayer money in the manner they did.

A

This post is the definition of polarisation to me.

Why?

The answer relates to the question of is it in the government's best interests for people to be educated?

It bears no relation to polarisation at all.

A

It is subtle but it is there. You response is not really about the governments “interest” in educating people is it? It’s about claiming that they are corrupt and the people who vote for them are sheep.

You lead with the “BS” around Brexit. I am assuming by that you are referring to the leave campaign - which wasn’t the government position. So much for a subservient population that does what the government wants.

You then go on to claim that the government has “siphoned off billions of pounds”. That spending was incredibly poorly managed (and probably negligent) but I have not actually seen any evidence of things being “siphoned off”.

I am not defending the government for one second but for me polarisation often happens because reasonable people meld arguments and actually believe they are answering one point but are really saying something else.

Nope.

I'm old enough to have lived through both Tory and Labour governments (with a coalition thrown in too).

None have been perfect. But I've yet to see more blatant lying, fraud and disregard for the publics intelligence than I ever have from any government before this one.

The BS around brexit I refer to is post the referendum.

There's plenty of evidence of funds being siphoned off to supporters, donors and family.

The reason polarisation is so evident in the current climate is largely because those that rule say one thing and do another, break promises (and often laws) and consider themselves above those they claim to serve.

Two party politics has always had this issue. But the gap between the haves and the have nots has been growing over the last decade, driven by policy and fuelling more polarisation in everything from political belief, individual opportunity to enhance lives, ability to make ends meet and to a large extent life expectancy and personal health.

It has to change.

A

And how is all of that connected to “The answer relates to the question of is it in the government's best interests for people to be educated?” ?

"

Simple. If people were more educated, informed or however you choose to term it 'aware' of the duplicity and motives of policies over recent years then I sincerely doubt the current government would still be in power.

A

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its a world of hot take debates these days from people getting quick highlights to become experts not knowing details its the way the new style media and social media works now anything to drive up views and clicks you see it with american sports analysts all the time that peirce morgan fella is the same

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its a world of hot take debates these days from people getting quick highlights to become experts not knowing details its the way the new style media and social media works now anything to drive up views and clicks you see it with american sports analysts all the time that peirce morgan fella is the same "
and people just follow that example

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT


"Yes I do agree and the inability to see or consider other people's opinion isn't a good trait in my view

I agree, alongside the polarisation tolerance and listening skills seem to be disappearing. "

Many moons ago, when I was at secondary school, a teacher used to run a debating society.

One of his strongest bits of advice was that to beat someone in a debate, first, you had to have an understanding and appreciation of their argument, before you could dismantle it.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"Yes I do agree and the inability to see or consider other people's opinion isn't a good trait in my view

I agree, alongside the polarisation tolerance and listening skills seem to be disappearing.

Many moons ago, when I was at secondary school, a teacher used to run a debating society.

One of his strongest bits of advice was that to beat someone in a debate, first, you had to have an understanding and appreciation of their argument, before you could dismantle it. "

I think that advice has been replaced by taking the piss out of them and shouting really loud....oh and gluing your face to something.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I do agree and the inability to see or consider other people's opinion isn't a good trait in my view

I agree, alongside the polarisation tolerance and listening skills seem to be disappearing.

Many moons ago, when I was at secondary school, a teacher used to run a debating society.

One of his strongest bits of advice was that to beat someone in a debate, first, you had to have an understanding and appreciation of their argument, before you could dismantle it. "

Its very good advice. The default now is to assume that your 'opponent' is uneducated and uninformed and your opinion is self evidently superior. Then people are surprised when their preferred opinion is unsuccessful in elections.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really resent people who think if you are not a Tory you must be Labour or vice versa. I think they are all as bad as each other these days. I read an article the other day about something being a consequence of Socialist Conservatives, which were two words I never expected to be put together!

Bollocks to all of them.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"I really resent people who think if you are not a Tory you must be Labour or vice versa. I think they are all as bad as each other these days. I read an article the other day about something being a consequence of Socialist Conservatives, which were two words I never expected to be put together!

Bollocks to all of them."

There is no in between. You're either good or bad. Right or wrong. Left or right. Intelligent or stupid.

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By *iltsTSgirlTV/TS
over a year ago

chichester

The uk is very fast mimicking American politics and complete lack of debate / comms between sides

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