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Gender Transition

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Always risky asking a serious question, but I'll try anyway in the hope that more useful or interesting responses show up than unhelpful or insulting ones. So firstly, full disclosure, I'm genuinely interest in hearing responses, as someone with a family member who recently outed themselves as non binary, which isn't quite the same but a bit of education around the edges can't hurt.

So, in the spirit of learning something, why is is that so many more people transition "to female", rather than "to male" (correct me if this isn't the best use of language)? I was doomscrolling those awful lists websites at lunch, and came across '40 celebrities who transitioned', and 90% (36) of them were transitioning to female. I know it's only 1 list, but anecdotally and indeed certainly 'feels' accurate, it does seem to be by far the dominant direction of transition. Why is is that more 'men' feel gender dysphoria than 'women' (using original genders, as presumable once they have transitioned, the dysphoria is no longer there, or at least that's the intention...)

No burns please, it's nearly the weekend

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By *uzie69xTV/TS
over a year ago

Maidstone

You are conflating terminologies which is not helpful.

Non-Binary say they were assigned a gender at birth - however they don't believe in the concept of binary sex... i.e. you MUST be either Male or Female so choose!!! So, really they never "transitioned" (from ... to) as such.

You only choose one demographic (celebrities) which can't represent all transitions. The GIC (Gender Identity Clinics) in England are reporting a much bigger proportion of Female to Male transitions being referred to them.

So you can't generalise.

Many Generation Z youngsters are declaring themselves "gender queer" without the need for clinical intervention.

In fact, there are some countries like Australia, where on your passport application, you can choose M, F or X. They say, your Gender Identity is not that important. Biometrics like finger prints are more important.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"You are conflating terminologies which is not helpful.

Non-Binary say they were assigned a gender at birth - however they don't believe in the concept of binary sex... i.e. you MUST be either Male or Female so choose!!! So, really they never "transitioned" (from ... to) as such."

Yup, I get that, the NB bit was background so show how I'm trying to learn a bit more about modern gender issues, but wasn't particularly pertinent to the actual question


"

You only choose one demographic (celebrities) which can't represent all transitions. The GIC (Gender Identity Clinics) in England are reporting a much bigger proportion of Female to Male transitions being referred to them.

So you can't generalise.

Many Generation Z youngsters are declaring themselves "gender queer" without the need for clinical intervention.

In fact, there are some countries like Australia, where on your passport application, you can choose M, F or X. They say, your Gender Identity is not that important. Biometrics like finger prints are more important."

I wouldn't even know where to look for genuine stats, I'd never heard of a GIC, but still curious to know when you say bigger, do you mean just bigger, like 2 in 10, or significantly bigger. For example, from the ONS "Between 2018 and 2019, the number of men identifying as LGB increased from 2.5% to 2.9% and women identifying as LGB increased from 2.0% to 2.5%." so comparable figures for men women when for identifying as gay, but the best I can google for dysphoria is "The DSM-5 estimates that about 0.005% to 0.014% of people assigned male at birth (that is, roughly one in 10,000) and 0.002% to 0.003% of people assigned female at birth " so significantly more variation towards people assigned male at birth. Not sure what the DSM is, but it seems like it could be a controversial thing to use as canon tho?

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By *uzie69xTV/TS
over a year ago

Maidstone

You need to understand the difference between Sexuality (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexuals) from Gender Identity. If I were you, I would Google "the difference between" and read around the subject more.

DSM is American (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) but in the UK we use ICD (International Classification of Diseases) as used by the WHO. They are as the titles suggest.

Sexuality (LGB) is no longer classified as a mental disorder. However Trans still is... but many are campaigning for it to be removed.

For example, as a Trans woman, I cannot serve on Jury Duty as I'm considered to have a mental disorder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

For example, as a Trans woman, I cannot serve on Jury Duty as I'm considered to have a mental disorder. "

I did not know this

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By *uzie69xTV/TS
over a year ago

Maidstone


"For example, as a Trans woman, I cannot serve on Jury Duty as I'm considered to have a mental disorder.

I did not know this "

Haha maybe not a bad thing.

I have a soft spot for thuggish men (bad boy Grant Mitchell... woof!)... I'd say innocent M'lord...(turns to accused and wink).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Always risky asking a serious question, but I'll try anyway in the hope that more useful or interesting responses show up than unhelpful or insulting ones. So firstly, full disclosure, I'm genuinely interest in hearing responses, as someone with a family member who recently outed themselves as non binary, which isn't quite the same but a bit of education around the edges can't hurt.

So, in the spirit of learning something, why is is that so many more people transition "to female", rather than "to male" (correct me if this isn't the best use of language)? I was doomscrolling those awful lists websites at lunch, and came across '40 celebrities who transitioned', and 90% (36) of them were transitioning to female. I know it's only 1 list, but anecdotally and indeed certainly 'feels' accurate, it does seem to be by far the dominant direction of transition. Why is is that more 'men' feel gender dysphoria than 'women' (using original genders, as presumable once they have transitioned, the dysphoria is no longer there, or at least that's the intention...)

No burns please, it's nearly the weekend "

I don’t know any figures but I don’t think it’s true that there are vastly more trans women than trans men. It’s actually easier for trans men to be “stealth” (as in not open about being trans) as it’s easier to pass as male than female (socially), plus because of misogyny there is less stigma about transitioning to male than female.

It’s definitely worth reading about the history of butch lesbians, studs etc in relation to transitioning. It can be “easier” to live as a butch or stud in the lesbian community, rather than transition (at least in the past when being trans was less accepted/common).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To add: the census results that came out today show roughly equal numbers of trans men and trans women in the uk. Plus gender clinics have in recent years shown a huge increase in FTM patients.

I think a lot of the “invisibility” of trans men is because it’s much more socially acceptable to be a manly woman than a feminine man.

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By *glyBettyTV/TS
over a year ago

About 3 feet away from the fence

FtMs are generally more "successful" transitions ("success" being defined here as the ability of the person to 'pass' as the other gender following transition)

.. And so I hypothesise that FTM men often blend more seamlessly into the general populace than MTFs, thus they appear to be less prevalent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You need to understand the difference between Sexuality (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexuals) from Gender Identity. If I were you, I would Google "the difference between" and read around the subject more.

DSM is American (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) but in the UK we use ICD (International Classification of Diseases) as used by the WHO. They are as the titles suggest.

Sexuality (LGB) is no longer classified as a mental disorder. However Trans still is... but many are campaigning for it to be removed.

For example, as a Trans woman, I cannot serve on Jury Duty as I'm considered to have a mental disorder. "

Hi Suzie, I believe it was removed as a mental disorder a few years ago so you are now free to serve on a jury!

As far as the ratio of MTF to FTM for the original post I believe its actually about even. The reason why you don't seem many transguys is because the effect or testosterone makes then look like guys. Trans women have to undo the effects of testosterone to look feminine which usually involves surgery.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Always risky asking a serious question, but I'll try anyway in the hope that more useful or interesting responses show up than unhelpful or insulting ones. So firstly, full disclosure, I'm genuinely interest in hearing responses, as someone with a family member who recently outed themselves as non binary, which isn't quite the same but a bit of education around the edges can't hurt.

So, in the spirit of learning something, why is is that so many more people transition "to female", rather than "to male" (correct me if this isn't the best use of language)? I was doomscrolling those awful lists websites at lunch, and came across '40 celebrities who transitioned', and 90% (36) of them were transitioning to female. I know it's only 1 list, but anecdotally and indeed certainly 'feels' accurate, it does seem to be by far the dominant direction of transition. Why is is that more 'men' feel gender dysphoria than 'women' (using original genders, as presumable once they have transitioned, the dysphoria is no longer there, or at least that's the intention...)

No burns please, it's nearly the weekend

I don’t know any figures but I don’t think it’s true that there are vastly more trans women than trans men. It’s actually easier for trans men to be “stealth” (as in not open about being trans) as it’s easier to pass as male than female (socially), plus because of misogyny there is less stigma about transitioning to male than female.

It’s definitely worth reading about the history of butch lesbians, studs etc in relation to transitioning. It can be “easier” to live as a butch or stud in the lesbian community, rather than transition (at least in the past when being trans was less accepted/common). "

This is interesting.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"To add: the census results that came out today show roughly equal numbers of trans men and trans women in the uk. Plus gender clinics have in recent years shown a huge increase in FTM patients.

I think a lot of the “invisibility” of trans men is because it’s much more socially acceptable to be a manly woman than a feminine man."

This tracks with my personal experience. I'm in a lot of LGBTQ+ spaces and I know fairly equal numbers of trans men and trans women but society seems obsessed with trans women and often conversations about trans issues seem to be entirely focused on trans women as though trans men don't even exist.

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38


"

For example, as a Trans woman, I cannot serve on Jury Duty as I'm considered to have a mental disorder.

I did not know this "

I never either!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

For example, as a Trans woman, I cannot serve on Jury Duty as I'm considered to have a mental disorder.

I did not know this

I never either!"

This isn't true any more.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Thanks for replying everyone, not going to quote you all. Learned some stuff, recognised an internal bias too. All useful.

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By *ts the taking part thatMan
over a year ago

southampton


"

For example, as a Trans woman, I cannot serve on Jury Duty as I'm considered to have a mental disorder.

I did not know this "

Me neither but fair enough & good to hear, if willing to play such a huge pretence or at worst live a lie even then you have to question suitability to judge someone's guilt which could result in serious jail time.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"

For example, as a Trans woman, I cannot serve on Jury Duty as I'm considered to have a mental disorder.

I did not know this

Me neither but fair enough & good to hear, if willing to play such a huge pretence or at worst live a lie even then you have to question suitability to judge someone's guilt which could result in serious jail time.

"

Did I just read what I think I did?

You think it's a good idea to ban someone from jury duty if they're Trans?

A

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By *host63Man
over a year ago

Bedfont Feltham

This stuff really makes my head hurt. I take people as I find them.i really dislike putting labels on people

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