FabSwingers.com forum: Should train drivers beable to strike?

By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

So, here we are again with another set of strikes, starting tomorrow. I would say the yearly december and january strikes.

The rmt union has revealed that more than 40,000 workers across network rail and 14 train operating companies will stage a series of 48 hour walkouts.

Further travel chaos is expected this christmas as thousands of rail workers are set to walk out for a number of 48 hour periods in december and january.

Here are some date of the strikes:

December 13 to 14 - Tuesday and Wednesday

December 16 to 17 - Friday and Saturday

January 3 to 4 - Tuesday and Wednesday

January 6 to 7 - Friday and Saturday

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most.

What are the strikes about, is it about pay and what can be done to see less of the strikes they have?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think we are in for strikes across quite a lot of industries in the coming months, some will cause much more disruption than trains and post, unfortunately

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

No. Governments responsibility is to provide transport that’s reliable , always, not just travis but trains too. They are hopeless at privatisation that benefits people.

If the private sector cannot manage then nationalise it and change the rules for workers or spend some money & bring in much larger driverless metro systems even better

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, the idea of introducing tough new laws to prevent certain groups striking is just plain wrong. Takes the teeth away from the jaws of the machine that needs to work against the establishment!!

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By *o new WinksMan
over a year ago

BSE

Working in a job where we are not allowed to strike...by law...trust me, it is not a good thing.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"So, here we are again with another set of strikes, starting tomorrow. I would say the yearly december and january strikes.

The rmt union has revealed that more than 40,000 workers across network rail and 14 train operating companies will stage a series of 48 hour walkouts.

Further travel chaos is expected this christmas as thousands of rail workers are set to walk out for a number of 48 hour periods in december and january.

Here are some date of the strikes:

December 13 to 14 - Tuesday and Wednesday

December 16 to 17 - Friday and Saturday

January 3 to 4 - Tuesday and Wednesday

January 6 to 7 - Friday and Saturday

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most.

What are the strikes about, is it about pay and what can be done to see less of the strikes they have?"

The strikes are not about pay, benefits or conditions, drivers are paid very well.

The strikes are tactical manoeuvre to keep the pressure on they government to leave them alone. It’s very similar to activist direct action , disrupt and show strength abd the other side will eventually get worn down and focus on privatising or reforming some other area that’s easier like teachers or nurses

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with the stikes in principal. I dont agree with the Unions disrupting christmas, I think thats an own goal that will turn public opinion away from them.

Bringing in legislation to prevent some workers from striking is just eroding workers rights and is wrong.

We should be wary of any government who want to legislate their problems away.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Once you take away someone's right to strike and their voice, it's a slippery slope afterwards. Too many people have accepted low wages and high workloads for way too long, it's time to stand up against these establishments. I fully support anyone who does so and won't let a little inconvenience it causes my life to change that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shouldn't all industries be allowed to strike

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester

"I agree with the stikes in principal. I dont agree with the Unions disrupting christmas, I think thats an own goal that will turn public opinion away from them.

Bringing in legislation to prevent some workers from striking is just eroding workers rights and is wrong.

We should be wary of any government who want to legislate their problems away."
Surely all governments do that, if its a problem make a law that makes it illegal eg the traffic police or public drinking etc

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By *oinerbillMan
over a year ago

warrington

"Once you take away someone's right to strike and their voice, it's a slippery slope afterwards. Too many people have accepted low wages and high workloads for way too long, it's time to stand up against these establishments. I fully support anyone who does so and won't let a little inconvenience it causes my life to change that."

Agree completly

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By *iltsTSgirlTV/TS
over a year ago

Chichester

People will strike regardless if they are riled enough.

Just they won’t be paid the days they strike. Much like the nhs strikes.

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple
over a year ago

Leeds

Tiz the season to hold the company you work for by the bollocks and demand more money. Every Christmas they do this. Next will be the ambulance service.

The mr

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

Yes. Next

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By *ittlebirdWoman
over a year ago

The Big Smoke

"Yes. Next"

Beat me to it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People will strike regardless if they are riled enough.

Just they won’t be paid the days they strike. Much like the nhs strikes. "

Don't think they are paid now either.

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"I think we are in for strikes across quite a lot of industries in the coming months, some will cause much more disruption than trains and post, unfortunately

"
Yes. I think so too that there are alot of strikes this month, not just from the train drivers but other sectors too and yes. I did hear about the post strike too.

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

[Removed by poster at 12/12/22 09:41:36]

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

Yes we all need to be able to vote with our feet in the private sector is done by moving job.

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"No. Governments responsibility is to provide transport that’s reliable , always, not just travis but trains too. They are hopeless at privatisation that benefits people.

If the private sector cannot manage then nationalise it and change the rules for workers or spend some money & bring in much larger driverless metro systems even better"
Yes, it seems like they cant manage it so good there.

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By *glyBettyTV/TS
over a year ago

About 3 feet away from the fence

I believe we live in a free country & one of the things you can do if you're not happy with your pay, is to remove your labour services until you're adequately recompensed for your time & effort.

A high risk strategy for most of us, but the ability to do so is a human right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At least they gave the dates in advance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"At least they gave the dates in advance

I never know when you're going to strike.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

No body gets paid while on strike as technically you are in breach of your contract.

The minute legislation takes the right to strike away, the employees will become s l a v e s in my opinion.

The whole country should strike in protest at that kind of rogue state control.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Every worker should be able to strike.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Of course they can strike.

Whether they have public opinion on their side when they do strike, is another matter.

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By *aturefun63Man
over a year ago

Belper

Every one should be able to strike,I think the police have a no strike agreement but have to trust the government to honour their pay agreements

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

This headline is very misleading and is akin to right wing newspapers. It is workers on the railway who are on strike, not all are train drivers and sometimes the train drivers are not on strike at all so it seems

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's totally messed up my travel plans for the next few weeks but I still support them.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Tiz the season to hold the company you work for by the bollocks and demand more money. Every Christmas they do this. Next will be the ambulance service.

The mr "

I didn't know this, how many years have they been doing this?

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By *wingin CatMan
over a year ago

London

Every worker should be able to strike as a last resort, if talks with management break down, and no reasonable offer is on the table.

When I started my first job at 16, joining the union (in this case, the CPSA, later CWU) was compulsory. If you made no attempt to join within two weeks, your employment was terminated. The union helped me a great deal in a lot of ways, and nowadays I support the strikers 110%.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Let them strike . ...

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Tom would send in the army ..

They would run on time then

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

[Removed by poster at 12/12/22 11:16:40]

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"Tom would send in the army ..

They would run on time then "

Very true. Plus the army train drivers better & cheaper because there’s no unions meddling. You know it’s costs around £40k and 12-18 months for they army to train a pilot but 5-7 years and millions for them unions to train a train driver to press 2 buttons and nap. What I’d going on ?

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"This headline is very misleading and is akin to right wing newspapers. It is workers on the railway who are on strike, not all are train drivers and sometimes the train drivers are not on strike at all so it seems

The current wave of strikes are by RMT and TSSA members, almost exactly none of whom are train drivers.

Nearly all train drivers are in ASLEF. They have recently renewed their mandate to strike at 14 operators, overwhelmingly so at over 90%, but they have not announced dates yet.

"Tiz the season to hold the company you work for by the bollocks and demand more money. Every Christmas they do this. Next will be the ambulance service.

The mr

I didn't know this, how many years have they been doing this? "

This is the first dispute that’s resulted in strike action at my company in thirty years.

"Tom would send in the army ..

They would run on time then "

The members of the armed forces possess many skills and attributes, but believe me, none of them possess the necessary to drive a passenger train to a timetable. Particularly in the weather we’re currently experiencing.

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"Tom would send in the army ..

They would run on time then

How to say you know nothing about the role (either of them actually), without saying you know nothing…

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"Tom would send in the army ..

They would run on time then

How to say you know nothing about the role (either of them actually), without saying you know nothing…"

No but I do know a recently qualified train driver and several pilots. The time to qualify as a train driver is purposely made long by unions to reduce supply , it’s not a secret.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Tom would send in the army ..

They would run on time then

Very true. Plus the army train drivers better & cheaper because there’s no unions meddling "

You do know unions have a ballot and the workers decide what they want to do?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

The current wave of strikes are by RMT and TSSA members, almost exactly none of whom are train drivers.

Nearly all train drivers are in ASLEF. They have recently renewed their mandate to strike at 14 operators, overwhelmingly so at over 90%, but they have not announced dates yet.

Tiz the season to hold the company you work for by the bollocks and demand more money. Every Christmas they do this. Next will be the ambulance service.

The mr

I didn't know this, how many years have they been doing this?

This is the first dispute that’s resulted in strike action at my company in thirty years.

we’re currently experiencing. "

Thanks Noah, I thought as much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"At least they gave the dates in advance

I never know when you're going to strike."

Yes

that’s my point ! We live always on the edge in France

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"Tom would send in the army ..

They would run on time then

Very true. Plus the army train drivers better & cheaper because there’s no unions meddling

You do know unions have a ballot and the workers decide what they want to do?"

Of course.

I also know in those types of places there is huge pressure and coercement for solidarity , I am old enough to remember how miners that said no and wanted to work were treated

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

They seem to be getting a huge majority voting to strike so it can't be much coercion going on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes

Anyone showing anger towards them should aim it at the greedy bastards at the top

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By *host63Man
over a year ago

Bedfont Feltham

It's time we stopped blaming the workers and started to blame the real people responsible.

The bosses and Government who try and erode workers rights give them.poor pay and conditions. Make people reapply for their jobs so they have to accept lower wages. Don't give people an adequate pay so they have to use food banks. The list goes on.

No one goes on strike lightly especially NHS Staff.

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"No but I do know a recently qualified train driver and several pilots. The time to qualify as a train driver is purposely made long by unions to reduce supply , it’s not a secret. "

That is simply not true.

ASLEF have no control whatsoever over the recruitment and training of new drivers, beyond the fact that it will almost certainly be an ASLEF member that’s doing the hands-on training in the cab (but not the recruitment, psychometric assessment, interview, medical, track safety training, rules and regulations training or traction training that occurs before it).

The length of time it takes to train a new driver is largely dependent on individual ability, the minimum standards set down by the Office of Road and Rail (225 hours at the controls of a moving train), and the Train Operator in question’s resources. The only say an ASLEF member would have in the prolonging of the training period would be in the instance that a trainee was not up to the required standard. Recently, some operators have relaxed the entry requirements for the grade and that has resulted, unfortunately, in some individuals being given the job when they’re not up to it; I have known such individuals take an additional couple of hundred hours of training and still fail to meet the standards.

The difficulty is not finding applicants, or in physically making the train move and stop, it’s in finding people who can remain focused on their job at the required level, can learn several hundred miles of track at detail enough that they can drive it flat out in all weathers and visibility levels, is prepared to work shifts that cover 24/7/365 and are prepared to continue doing it for the rest of their careers.

I suggest you speak to your recently qualified train driver acquaintance and actually ask them what the job and training entailed. Ask them if they’re in ASLEF, and ask them what they think of the current situation where they work.

I’m pretty sure that you can’t get a commercial pilot’s license for £40K anywhere other than fairyland. A quick google suggests 1500 hours and £100K+.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"It's time we stopped blaming the workers and started to blame the real people responsible.

No one goes on strike lightly especially NHS Staff. "

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By *hillenCouple
over a year ago

Borehamwood

Not sure drivers are on strike but trains won't move unless all the ancillary staff are working.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Got it in 1...all the right wing goons that read certain newspapers and follow certain people on social media believe in all the propaganda and shite spouted out about the drivers when the strikes aren't just about the drivers...some people are right gullible.

All the greedy bosses are laughing at all the idiots that aim the anger at the strikers while there out buying their 5th house and a yacht

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By *wingin CatMan
over a year ago

London

All the greedy bosses are laughing at all the idiots that aim the anger at the strikers while there out buying their 5th house and a yacht "

Hear, hear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’ve not read the thread in full.

Train drivers are mostly members of ASLEF. The strikes listed are RMT .

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By *r Discreet 75Man
over a year ago

LIVERPOOL

Although I don't support these strikes they do have and always should have the right to withdraw their labour

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Although I don't support these strikes they do have and always should have the right to withdraw their labour "

Most of the workers are cleaners and low paid workers. They don’t make big bucks.

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By *issmorganWoman
over a year ago

Calderdale innit

Yes they should

Nobody wants their rights taken away by not being allowed to strike,or where will it end.

I always tell people who work for an employer to make sure they're in a union.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes they should

Nobody wants their rights taken away by not being allowed to strike,or where will it end.

I always tell people who work for an employer to make sure they're in a union."

Seeing what happened to P&O staff is going to happen to Royal Mail workers . It’s time people stood up for their rights .

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By *ubikslongswordMan
over a year ago

Rubiksville

I think they should be able to strike but they need to do it in a way that will impact the company in the highest way without impacting the passengers if possible.

My favourite story is of Japanese bus drivers striking by not charging passengers but still driving their routes which I think is genius

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By *ackbydemandMan
over a year ago

Leicester

Simple answer is yes, but the train companies also are fully entitled to hire temp staff to do the job while they are on strike. It's not the 1970s and nobody is going to beat them up and call them a scab. If they do, it's gross misconduct and sacked. Then hire someone permanently to replace them.

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By *annGentMan
over a year ago

With a cracking view

"I think they should be able to strike but they need to do it in a way that will impact the company in the highest way without impacting the passengers if possible.

My favourite story is of Japanese bus drivers striking by not charging passengers but still driving their routes which I think is genius"

Didn't the Metro in Paris do the same ???

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By *ubikslongswordMan
over a year ago

Rubiksville

"I think they should be able to strike but they need to do it in a way that will impact the company in the highest way without impacting the passengers if possible.

My favourite story is of Japanese bus drivers striking by not charging passengers but still driving their routes which I think is genius

Didn't the Metro in Paris do the same ???"

Quite possibly I've only ever heard it with the Japanese bus drivers though but it's my favourite form of industrial action I've seen

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

Fully supportive of anyone who attempts to make a stand by striking for improved working conditions and pay.

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By *hePerkyPumpkinTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

Of course they have the right to strike.

It's really fucking annoying though. I had plans for a meet this evening which unfortunately can't happen now because I wouldn't be able to return home for a few days.

Moreover, my new bank card is sitting in a post office somewhere because the postmen are on strike, 5 days so far!

So now I can't go out and buy stuff, nor can I have any sex

I know my problems mean nothing and there are greater things happening around me, but damn.

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"I think they should be able to strike but they need to do it in a way that will impact the company in the highest way without impacting the passengers if possible.

My favourite story is of Japanese bus drivers striking by not charging passengers but still driving their routes which I think is genius"

“Revenue Strikes” are illegal in the UK, and in most of the rest of the world.

A withdrawal of labour is the only legal recourse any employee has under current legislation, and even then, only after every single i has been dotted and t crossed. Believe me, if railway staff worked to rule, that would cause more pain than stoppages announced 14 days in advance.

The train operators are fully indemnified by the government under their current management contracts.

All the current disputes could have been resolved months ago if the government had not chosen to act as it did/is doing.

The vast bulk of the people currently in dispute are those lauded as “key workers” only a few short months ago. How soon that’s been forgotten.

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"Japanese bus drivers strike…

Didn't the Metro in Paris do the same ???

Quite possibly I've only ever heard it with the Japanese bus drivers though but it's my favourite form of industrial action I've seen "

No, bus drivers in Brisbane did it for a short while in 2017, and it occurred in Okinawa equally briefly in 2018.

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"Simple answer is yes, but the train companies also are fully entitled to hire temp staff to do the job while they are on strike. It's not the 1970s and nobody is going to beat them up and call them a scab. If they do, it's gross misconduct and sacked. Then hire someone permanently to replace them.

For most roles, regardless of industry, there is simply not a sufficient pool of suitable agency staff to call upon. You cannot parachute someone into a job without any training or experience and expect them to perform adequately. P&O found that out to their cost.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"I think they should be able to strike but they need to do it in a way that will impact the company in the highest way without impacting the passengers if possible.

My favourite story is of Japanese bus drivers striking by not charging passengers but still driving their routes which I think is genius"

They can't do that here. Even if they did it wouldn't hurt the train companies as it seems the Gov pay the train companies when they are not running

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So, here we are again with another set of strikes, starting tomorrow. I would say the yearly december and january strikes.

The rmt union has revealed that more than 40,000 workers across network rail and 14 train operating companies will stage a series of 48 hour walkouts.

Further travel chaos is expected this christmas as thousands of rail workers are set to walk out for a number of 48 hour periods in december and january.

Here are some date of the strikes:

December 13 to 14 - Tuesday and Wednesday

December 16 to 17 - Friday and Saturday

January 3 to 4 - Tuesday and Wednesday

January 6 to 7 - Friday and Saturday

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most.

What are the strikes about, is it about pay and what can be done to see less of the strikes they have?"

This is world upside down. A shop assistant earn more than a nurse, a train driver ( 6months training) more that a doctor!( 10years training).

Yet we clapped for them.. and now we are blackm**ling them for putting patients in danger.

Train drivers know how to get what they want.

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

[Removed by poster at 12/12/22 15:35:05]

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"At least they gave the dates in advance

I never know when you're going to strike.

Yes

that’s my point ! We live always on the edge in France

"
Yes, at least they gave the dates before hand, which is handy too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"At least they gave the dates in advance

I never know when you're going to strike.

Yes

that’s my point ! We live always on the edge in France

Yes, at least they gave the dates before hand, which is handy too

Legally they have to .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So, here we are again with another set of strikes, starting tomorrow. I would say the yearly december and january strikes.

The rmt union has revealed that more than 40,000 workers across network rail and 14 train operating companies will stage a series of 48 hour walkouts.

Further travel chaos is expected this christmas as thousands of rail workers are set to walk out for a number of 48 hour periods in december and january.

Here are some date of the strikes:

December 13 to 14 - Tuesday and Wednesday

December 16 to 17 - Friday and Saturday

January 3 to 4 - Tuesday and Wednesday

January 6 to 7 - Friday and Saturday

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most.

What are the strikes about, is it about pay and what can be done to see less of the strikes they have?

This is world upside down. A shop assistant earn more than a nurse, a train driver ( 6months training) more that a doctor!( 10years training).

Yet we clapped for them.. and now we are blackm**ling them for putting patients in danger.

Train drivers know how to get what they want."

Train drivers aren’t striking

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So, here we are again with another set of strikes, starting tomorrow. I would say the yearly december and january strikes.

The rmt union has revealed that more than 40,000 workers across network rail and 14 train operating companies will stage a series of 48 hour walkouts.

Further travel chaos is expected this christmas as thousands of rail workers are set to walk out for a number of 48 hour periods in december and january.

Here are some date of the strikes:

December 13 to 14 - Tuesday and Wednesday

December 16 to 17 - Friday and Saturday

January 3 to 4 - Tuesday and Wednesday

January 6 to 7 - Friday and Saturday

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most.

What are the strikes about, is it about pay and what can be done to see less of the strikes they have?

This is world upside down. A shop assistant earn more than a nurse, a train driver ( 6months training) more that a doctor!( 10years training).

Yet we clapped for them.. and now we are blackm**ling them for putting patients in danger.

Train drivers know how to get what they want.

Train drivers aren’t striking

No matter how many times you tell them it's not the train drivers they still say it's the train drivers...too much reading of the sun/daily mail and listening to piers Morgan

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By *ovingSussexLifeMan
over a year ago

West Sussex

Anyone should be allowed to strike.

My question is, and I genuinely don't know, are railways making money? If staff costs go up 10%, then tickets will go up as well, and make rail even less affordable.

I currently prefer to drive, as the train is so expensive.

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"At least they gave the dates in advance

I never know when you're going to strike.

Yes

that’s my point ! We live always on the edge in France

Yes, at least they gave the dates before hand, which is handy too

Legally they have to ."
Yes, that is good, they have to do that too

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By *ackbydemandMan
over a year ago

Leicester

Say that to the NHS

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Anyone should be allowed to strike.

My question is, and I genuinely don't know, are railways making money? If staff costs go up 10%, then tickets will go up as well, and make rail even less affordable.

I currently prefer to drive, as the train is so expensive.

Yes they are making money

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By *ooty and sooCouple
over a year ago

manchester

if you have no rights then you are not a free person

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone should be allowed to strike.

My question is, and I genuinely don't know, are railways making money? If staff costs go up 10%, then tickets will go up as well, and make rail even less affordable.

I currently prefer to drive, as the train is so expensive.

Train tickets aren't actually expensive if you can travel off peak and book in advance. If you need to travel in peak times or buy on the day then yes they are extortionate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if you have no rights then you are not a free person"

The army don't have the right to strike and are on less pay than a lot of those whose jobs they are going to have to cover.

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By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

"if you have no rights then you are not a free person

The army don't have the right to strike and are on less pay than a lot of those whose jobs they are going to have to cover. "

That's unfortunate for them I guess

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if you have no rights then you are not a free person

The army don't have the right to strike and are on less pay than a lot of those whose jobs they are going to have to cover.

That's unfortunate for them I guess "

So that's OK then is it? why should somebody who has an essential job that needs to be covered expect someone else to do it for less pay?

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By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

"if you have no rights then you are not a free person

The army don't have the right to strike and are on less pay than a lot of those whose jobs they are going to have to cover.

That's unfortunate for them I guess

So that's OK then is it? why should somebody who has an essential job that needs to be covered expect someone else to do it for less pay? "

I don't think anyone on strike expects that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if you have no rights then you are not a free person

The army don't have the right to strike and are on less pay than a lot of those whose jobs they are going to have to cover.

That's unfortunate for them I guess

So that's OK then is it? why should somebody who has an essential job that needs to be covered expect someone else to do it for less pay?

I don't think anyone on strike expects that "

I think you find they do because they know full well that somebody has to cover their job otherwise people are going to die. That is why the majority of health trusts are actually not striking because the staff do not feel they can strike in all consciousness.

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By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

"if you have no rights then you are not a free person

The army don't have the right to strike and are on less pay than a lot of those whose jobs they are going to have to cover.

That's unfortunate for them I guess

So that's OK then is it? why should somebody who has an essential job that needs to be covered expect someone else to do it for less pay?

I don't think anyone on strike expects that

I don't think striking nurses are murderers nor do I think it's up to any striking worker to just put up with their situation in case someone else has to cover their shift

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if you have no rights then you are not a free person

The army don't have the right to strike and are on less pay than a lot of those whose jobs they are going to have to cover.

That's unfortunate for them I guess

So that's OK then is it? why should somebody who has an essential job that needs to be covered expect someone else to do it for less pay?

I don't think anyone on strike expects that

I don't think striking nurses are murderers nor do I think it's up to any striking worker to just put up with their situation in case someone else has to cover their shift "

I didn't say that so please don't put words in my mouth but we all know if nurses and ambulance staff go on strike and nobody covers them people are going to die as a result end of story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The government are to blame for most of the strikes. Yet we are all arguing each other and letting our corrupt government to be sidelined.

Anyone recall how Lord Mone enjoyed having seen our corrupt government deposit £29M of our tax money into Lord Mones bank account .

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"if you have no rights then you are not a free person

The army don't have the right to strike and are on less pay than a lot of those whose jobs they are going to have to cover. "

Anyone who thinks the army has a magic wand to come and make everything work is living in cloud cuckoo land.

There’s not enough personnel in the army to come remotely close to being able to cover the roles of those on strike. It’s simply a trope to pacify the gammonista.

The entire army consists of around 80,000 personnel of all ranks, from cooks to generals.

40,000+ railway workers, 140,000 postal workers, 400,000 nurses, plus teachers, lecturers, firefighters, border force, customs, and all the others.

Those few members of the armed forces who have the skills to drop straight into a civilian job and land running would be a drop in the ocean. That’s without taking into account that most regulars don’t mix well with civilians.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was talking to a train driver this morning.

His feeling, the strikes are losing the public support.

Strikes over Christmas will be the nail in the coffin of public support.

According to the guy I was speaking to, a lot of other drivers feel the same.

Winston

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

That’s so detached from reality it’s borderline insane.

What’s next?

Policemen spend their time equally between eating doughnuts and taking bribes?

Teachers work six hours a day and have twenty weeks off a year?

Firemen all have second jobs as decorators?

Give it a rest.

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"I was talking to a train driver this morning.

His feeling, the strikes are losing the public support.

Strikes over Christmas will be the nail in the coffin of public support.

According to the guy I was speaking to, a lot of other drivers feel the same.

Winston

The ballot results declared last week suggest otherwise...

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By *d59michelleTV/TS
over a year ago

walsall

[Removed by poster at 12/12/22 20:35:22]

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"I was talking to a train driver this morning.

His feeling, the strikes are losing the public support.

Strikes over Christmas will be the nail in the coffin of public support.

According to the guy I was speaking to, a lot of other drivers feel the same.

Winston

The ballot results declared last week suggest otherwise..."
Just because it declares it, doesnt mean that all the drivers support it.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

That’s so detached from reality it’s borderline insane.

What’s next?

Policemen spend their time equally between eating doughnuts and taking bribes?

Teachers work six hours a day and have twenty weeks off a year?

Firemen all have second jobs as decorators?

Give it a rest.

You have a point and all of them true ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if you have no rights then you are not a free person

The army don't have the right to strike and are on less pay than a lot of those whose jobs they are going to have to cover.

That's unfortunate for them I guess

So that's OK then is it? why should somebody who has an essential job that needs to be covered expect someone else to do it for less pay? "

Just out curiosity, what is the discription of a soldier.. and what are the weekly hours they are expected to do?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the train drivers stuck with the reason of seeking a wage rise, they would have enjoyed unequivocal public support.

Mick Lynch is muddying the waters for himself and turning off some of the public when he starts banging on about wanting job security for rail workers against automation and modernisation taking away/making obsolete some jobs like guards or ticket counter staff. Even if these points were valid, what special right do railway professions have against technological and societal progress posing existential challenges to their jobs?

He can go on about how train guards are needed to keep people safe on trains. But frankly how many of us have ever seen any fracas or situation on a train get dealt with in time by a train guard? And it says a lot more about society being made up of so many ASBO-eligible individuals that intercity trains still need guards on them. Do the French or Spanish or any other European country with similar or better rail networks need them to deal with loutish passengers?

And as for manned ticket counter staff... I honestly get better and more accurate/timely assistance checking on Trainline than ticket staff. More so since with the pandemic most people have already moved on to eticketing and no longer need physical tickets too.

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"If the train drivers stuck with the reason of seeking a wage rise, they would have enjoyed unequivocal public support.

Mick Lynch doesn’t represent train drivers; not in any significant sense.

Mick Lynch is the General Secretary of the RMT, which represents pretty much every other operational grade on the railway except train drivers.

Less than 2 percent of the UK’s 22,000 train drivers are in the RMT, and none outside TfL in groups large enough to be eligible for collective bargaining, or to form a large enough assembly to take coordinated industrial action.

ASLEF is the train drivers’ union.

Guards on trains do much more than just check tickets. Particularly when things go wrong. It’s hard to overstate just how important it is to have a second safety critical member of staff on board when there is an emergency. Train dispatch is, IMHO, a vital part of their job. Way safer than monitors, mirrors and flawed camera based systems.

Not everyone has the ability, or the faculties, to use internet ticketing. We carry hundreds of vulnerable people daily, with wide ranging abilities, and many of them would be unwilling or even unable to travel without station and on train staff’s support.

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By *hGlobbitsMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

Hate to break it to you, but strikes are *supposed* to be disruptive. They wouldn't have much effect if they weren't!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hate to break it to you, but strikes are *supposed* to be disruptive. They wouldn't have much effect if they weren't! "

But the people they are disrupting have no say in how much these people get paid all their working conditions. Let's be honest it's not like people can go elsewhere if they rely on the train or tube network, Can't just stop going to A&E if you have a medical emergency.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

That’s so detached from reality it’s borderline insane.

What’s next?

Policemen spend their time equally between eating doughnuts and taking bribes?

Teachers work six hours a day and have twenty weeks off a year?

Firemen all have second jobs as decorators?

Give it a rest.

*Not all teachers (maybe that's a hashtag?!)

Anyway, if I am able to travel by train, which, due to the lack of lifts at all the stations locally is not as often as I otherwise would, I rely on there being station staff and onboard staff to assist me. I don't WANT assistance but the design of British railway platforms and trains, with giant steps and gaps etc means I have no choice. People like me have just as much right to use public transport as a nimble able bodied person, but we have to rely on staff being physically present and available, so closing station offices and booths is simply not an option. It would leave significant numbers of people unable to access public transport. Disabled people are getting hammered in all directions. New clean air and congestion zones in various cities mean disabled people often have to pay a premium for driving (e.g. into Birmingham) but if the public transport is inaccessible to people with mobility impairments, what are we supposed to do??

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"Hate to break it to you, but strikes are *supposed* to be disruptive. They wouldn't have much effect if they weren't!

Well that should be taken up with the management who through mistreatment & underpaying their staff, forced them to go on strike.

Your inconvenience is an unfortunate but necessary step to protect their livelihoods.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hate to break it to you, but strikes are *supposed* to be disruptive. They wouldn't have much effect if they weren't!

Well that should be taken up with the management who through mistreatment & underpaying their staff, forced them to go on strike.

Your inconvenience is an unfortunate but necessary step to protect their livelihoods. "

I thought they were going on strike for a pay rise so...

I would also say somebody dying is not an inconvenience! What a heartless comment and completely ridiculous.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hate to break it to you, but strikes are *supposed* to be disruptive. They wouldn't have much effect if they weren't!

Well that should be taken up with the management who through mistreatment & underpaying their staff, forced them to go on strike.

Your inconvenience is an unfortunate but necessary step to protect their livelihoods. "

You are aware it is the government that set rates of pay for public sector workers not managers in hospitals.

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

Today starts the train strikes, lets hope that there wont be to much disruption, luckily I dont need to use the trains.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The government are to blame for most of the strikes. Yet we are all arguing each other and letting our corrupt government to be sidelined.

Anyone recall how Lord Mone enjoyed having seen our corrupt government deposit £29M of our tax money into Lord Mones bank account . "

Very well said again!!

When the working class tories get angry at the workers rather than the greedy bastards at the top

...absolutely deluded some people and have no empathy towards people's situation

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

This again....its not just about the train drivers!!!

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By *lym4realCouple
over a year ago

plymouth

Always good to see working class conservatives get angry at the "Unions" and they are just brainwashed to the point of being comatosed as they are 100% more than willing to take full adavantage of the workers rights they now enjoy due to the "Unions" who have have fought and won for them over the decades and just what do they think the words "Bonfire of Redtape" means ?? and so yes they have a right to strike and everyone's very quiet about the many billions handed over to the owners of our so called "Privatised" train service and millions this year alone paid to shareholders and those at the top of the tree ??? and not forgetting the cabal of bankers who actually own the trains and rent them to train companies and finally name one bill that's got cheaper despite the work force of companies being laid off etc etc and numerous cases where women have felt "Unsafe" and rail staff have stepped in to help ?? or the disabled ? women with pushchairs? parents with special needs children ?? so carry on striking !! but 12 years of eye watering profits and pay and bonuses ?? ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was talking to a train driver this morning.

His feeling, the strikes are losing the public support.

Strikes over Christmas will be the nail in the coffin of public support.

According to the guy I was speaking to, a lot of other drivers feel the same.

Winston

The ballot results declared last week suggest otherwise..."

Did everyone who has the power of vote exercise that power?

It's daft not to of course, these are hard fought for rights.

Winston

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Always good to see working class conservatives get angry at the "Unions" and they are just brainwashed to the point of being comatosed as they are 100% more than willing to take full adavantage of the workers rights they now enjoy due to the "Unions" who have have fought and won for them over the decades and just what do they think the words "Bonfire of Redtape" means ?? and so yes they have a right to strike and everyone's very quiet about the many billions handed over to the owners of our so called "Privatised" train service and millions this year alone paid to shareholders and those at the top of the tree ??? and not forgetting the cabal of bankers who actually own the trains and rent them to train companies and finally name one bill that's got cheaper despite the work force of companies being laid off etc etc and numerous cases where women have felt "Unsafe" and rail staff have stepped in to help ?? or the disabled ? women with pushchairs? parents with special needs children ?? so carry on striking !! but 12 years of eye watering profits and pay and bonuses ?? ....

Clap clap clap ...very well said!!

Working class tories absolute weirdos (sick emoji)

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Today starts the train strikes, lets hope that there wont be to much disruption, luckily I dont need to use the trains."

Half of my teaching team cannot attend work so the remaining half are working doubly hard to cover. It's not satisfactory for anyone unfortunately.

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"Today starts the train strikes, lets hope that there wont be to much disruption, luckily I dont need to use the trains.

Half of my teaching team cannot attend work so the remaining half are working doubly hard to cover. It's not satisfactory for anyone unfortunately. "
Yes, that is not good, that means that there are quite few days, where they cant come in during the strikes?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thankfully the bus drivers aren't striking at the same time

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

"
not that simple as green for go red for stop .

each driver has to know the ability's and capability's of each type of traction they will be driving acceleration deceleration braking and drive them accordingly in all different types ofg weather conditions day and night . they also have to know how to fault find and fix if possible faults that happen whilst out on a run . they must of signed the route they are going to drive over that means they must know the location and possible routes from every signal and any associated speed and traffic restrictions for example from manchester to london thats 183 miles of route with a signal every 1/4 of a mile . whilst doing that they have to obey permanent and temporary speed restrictions whilst keeping to a timetable . they will also have to operate the aws at each signal at 125 mph thats every 7 seconds whilst also holding the dsd down and canceling the drivers vigilance devise every 30 seconds failure to do any of the last three will bring about a full automatic brake application .they also have to keep an eye out for staff working on the track and idiots trespassing. try it next time you drive down the motorway name every roadside sign and junction in full from memory without error whilst maintaining speed and awareness of what's around you

good luck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

not that simple as green for go red for stop .

good luck "

Whenever I see a "all they have to do is........" my first thought is, there's someone who knows eff all about the job.

Winston

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

not that simple as green for go red for stop .

good luck "
oh and that is just for one route each driver is usualy required to know all the routes worked from their depot which can be anything upto 12 routes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My rail line into work is running a reduced service, so late in and early leave each day.

Guess who's working most of the weekend to make up for the lost hours.......

General concensus of opinion in our office...... losing our sympathy.

Given how so many people weren't able to see their families over Christmas due to covid restrictions in the last couple of years, if family visits are curtailed due to the strikes a can see a lot more public support dissapearing.

Winston

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Today starts the train strikes, lets hope that there wont be to much disruption, luckily I dont need to use the trains.

Half of my teaching team cannot attend work so the remaining half are working doubly hard to cover. It's not satisfactory for anyone unfortunately. Yes, that is not good, that means that there are quite few days, where they cant come in during the strikes?"

It will impact every day for the rest of the week, the last week of the term before exams.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"Hate to break it to you, but strikes are *supposed* to be disruptive. They wouldn't have much effect if they weren't!

Well that should be taken up with the management who through mistreatment & underpaying their staff, forced them to go on strike.

Your inconvenience is an unfortunate but necessary step to protect their livelihoods.

You are aware it is the government that set rates of pay for public sector workers not managers in hospitals. "

So take it up with them rather than picking semantics.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

not that simple as green for go red for stop .

good luck "

People have no idea about what it takes to drive a train, nor frankly any job that they don't do.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

not that simple as green for go red for stop .

good luck

People have no idea about what it takes to drive a train, nor frankly any job that they don't do."
but so many are prepared to pontificate about them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes they should. Hopefully the voices of the union members and representatives will be heard with these strikes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes they should. Hopefully the voices of the union members and representatives will be heard with these strikes.

I’ve got holes to wreck. Surely you of all people understand

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hate to break it to you, but strikes are *supposed* to be disruptive. They wouldn't have much effect if they weren't!

Well that should be taken up with the management who through mistreatment & underpaying their staff, forced them to go on strike.

Your inconvenience is an unfortunate but necessary step to protect their livelihoods.

You are aware it is the government that set rates of pay for public sector workers not managers in hospitals.

So take it up with them rather than picking semantics. "

That doesn't even make sense!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't look at train drivers in isolation. The standard of living in the UK is a disgrace. 6th biggest economy in the world, yet nurses are using food banks. Listen to the song common people by Pulp. With inflation as it is, in 2 years with compound interest we will all be 25% worse off. BP make 25 billion profit every three months. Our system is broke. People are genuinely desperate. What are they supposed to do.... quietly die....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All I see is “the drivers are paid too much” when the drivers are not striking. Same with people assuming postal workers are striking due to the pay…. The pay rise they’ve been offered they are happy with but it’s the condition changes they are not.

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By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

"Don't look at train drivers in isolation. The standard of living in the UK is a disgrace. 6th biggest economy in the world, yet nurses are using food banks. Listen to the song common people by Pulp. With inflation as it is, in 2 years with compound interest we will all be 25% worse off. BP make 25 billion profit every three months. Our system is broke. People are genuinely desperate. What are they supposed to do.... quietly die...."

As long as they don't cause any slight inconvenience in doing so

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By *ryandseeMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire

All I can say how revealing this thread is. Polarised extreme opinions rising to the fore again. The right to demonstrate or strike should be held sacrosant in a democracy irrespective of how we may feel about those who strike or their reasons or indeed the inconvenience it causes. I, as many do, moan about that inconvenience all the time but I would certainly not want to leave in a 'dictatorship' where such rights were eroded or removed. I also don't know much as the reasons but would not make much difference.

It is for them to decide, not me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As long as they don't cause any slight inconvenience in doing so

Having to work weekends to make up for lost time due to the strikes is a bit more than a "slight inconvenience"

Delivery deadlines don't change because of the strikes, clients still have to be served, contractual obligations don't just go away.

Winston

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

the govt are intervening as it fits with their plan to demonize and finally break the unions starting with the big boys of the RMT who have been a thorn in the Tory's side for decades . once they have broken the unions they can introduce the second faze of Brexit plans bring in their much wanted Singapore style economy no unions no rights hire and fire low wages and sweat shops all things they couldn't do whilst within the EU look up charter zones . and the lemmings will keep on voting for them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the government had capped the energy costs we many not be in the situation we're finding ourselves in with inflation at such a height and cost of living forcing people to consider strike action for increased pay.

Many seemed to for get that there will be millions who cannot get any form of increase. Most government workers received 100% of their pay while many only received 80% and most self employed didn't receive anything from the government when having to sit at home during covid restrictions. Most government workers were the last to return with many like the driving examiners saying it was too unsafe for them to return and didn't return till nearly 3 months after it was deemed 'safe' by the government for instructors to return. Now they're wanting a pay and pension increase.

I honestly cannot see too much sympathy from the general public for much of these strikes other than for nurses.

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

I am struggling to understand why anyone has to strike under a government that promised a high wage economy

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By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

As long as they don't cause any slight inconvenience in doing so

Having to work weekends to make up for lost time due to the strikes is a bit more than a "slight inconvenience"

Delivery deadlines don't change because of the strikes, clients still have to be served, contractual obligations don't just go away.

Winston "

Maybe you could get your union to take up that issue for you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As long as they don't cause any slight inconvenience in doing so

Having to work weekends to make up for lost time due to the strikes is a bit more than a "slight inconvenience"

Delivery deadlines don't change because of the strikes, clients still have to be served, contractual obligations don't just go away.

Winston

Maybe you could get your union to take up that issue for you"

How on earth do you think they'd negotiate their way around that one......

Winston

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I am struggling to understand why anyone has to strike under a government that promised a high wage economy "

Because that promise hasn't materialised, especially when the cost of basic living has increased so much in such a short time.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"I am struggling to understand why anyone has to strike under a government that promised a high wage economy "
because its yet another Tory promise that they will renage on at the first opportunity. What they want is low wage low skill maleable workforce with no rights no unions easy to hire and fire docile subserviant

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By *hyguy469Man
over a year ago

BROMSGROVE

I read something earlier about someone not feeling sympathy for the strikers anymore...and the reason...because it was directly impacting on them.

Same when lots of people turn on teachers because it massively impacts them as they have to have their own kids.

In answer to your original question, of course they should be able to strike.

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By *hyguy469Man
over a year ago

BROMSGROVE

"In this day and age there is no need for a human at the wheel of a train..

The train drivers don't even need a steering wheel.. the tracks do it for them.. what's left . Red for stop and green for go..

not that simple as green for go red for stop .

good luck

People have no idea about what it takes to drive a train, nor frankly any job that they don't do."

Apart from teaching, everyone knows how to do that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I read something earlier about someone not feeling sympathy for the strikers anymore...and the reason...because it was directly impacting on them.

Same when lots of people turn on teachers because it massively impacts them as they have to have their own kids.

In answer to your original question, of course they should be able to strike.

I'm happy for the unions to strike, I'm also happy to be inconvenienced.

I'm not happy to be perpetually inconvenienced, especially as its now having a pretty significant impact on my work/life balance and mental health.

My wages pay their wages. Feels like they're biting the hand that feeds them.

If there was any other way to get to work, I'd be taking it.

Winston

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By *gainagainMan
over a year ago

pontypridd

Everyone has the right to withdraw labour,as it should be. But striking is not always the best way to hit a company. Working to rule can cost a company huge amounts of money with no repercussions on the workers. They still have to be paid, they can't be sacked for doing it, and companies rely on their staff working around badly drafted procedures and doing things that are actually outside their job description in order to get the job done. Add an overtime ban, and you have a very effective course of industrial action.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everyone has the right to withdraw labour,as it should be. But striking is not always the best way to hit a company. Working to rule can cost a company huge amounts of money with no repercussions on the workers. They still have to be paid, they can't be sacked for doing it, and companies rely on their staff working around badly drafted procedures and doing things that are actually outside their job description in order to get the job done. Add an overtime ban, and you have a very effective course of industrial action."

This. ^

Winston

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By *hyguy469Man
over a year ago

BROMSGROVE

"I read something earlier about someone not feeling sympathy for the strikers anymore...and the reason...because it was directly impacting on them.

Same when lots of people turn on teachers because it massively impacts them as they have to have their own kids.

In answer to your original question, of course they should be able to strike.

I'm happy for the unions to strike, I'm also happy to be inconvenienced.

I'm not happy to be perpetually inconvenienced, especially as its now having a pretty significant impact on my work/life balance and mental health.

My wages pay their wages. Feels like they're biting the hand that feeds them.

If there was any other way to get to work, I'd be taking it.

Winston "

Unfortunately, it may take perpetual inconvenience to make a difference.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I read something earlier about someone not feeling sympathy for the strikers anymore...and the reason...because it was directly impacting on them.

Same when lots of people turn on teachers because it massively impacts them as they have to have their own kids.

In answer to your original question, of course they should be able to strike.

I'm happy for the unions to strike, I'm also happy to be inconvenienced.

I'm not happy to be perpetually inconvenienced, especially as its now having a pretty significant impact on my work/life balance and mental health.

My wages pay their wages. Feels like they're biting the hand that feeds them.

If there was any other way to get to work, I'd be taking it.

Winston

Unfortunately, it may take perpetual inconvenience to make a difference."

Also unfortunately for the hundreds of thousands of passengers who rely on their service to get to work.

I hope hoth parties can come to a mutually agreeable compromise. Just can't see it happening any day soon.

Winston

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"Hate to break it to you, but strikes are *supposed* to be disruptive. They wouldn't have much effect if they weren't!

Well that should be taken up with the management who through mistreatment & underpaying their staff, forced them to go on strike.

Your inconvenience is an unfortunate but necessary step to protect their livelihoods.

You are aware it is the government that set rates of pay for public sector workers not managers in hospitals.

So take it up with them rather than picking semantics.

That doesn't even make sense!

You have proved my point! Well done.

Rather than see the real issue you will pick anything superficial to argue about.

It just highlights the type of person you are.

Don’t you think people deserve a fair salary and decent working conditions?

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike."

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hate to break it to you, but strikes are *supposed* to be disruptive. They wouldn't have much effect if they weren't!

Well that should be taken up with the management who through mistreatment & underpaying their staff, forced them to go on strike.

Your inconvenience is an unfortunate but necessary step to protect their livelihoods.

You are aware it is the government that set rates of pay for public sector workers not managers in hospitals.

So take it up with them rather than picking semantics.

That doesn't even make sense!

You have proved my point! Well done.

Rather than see the real issue you will pick anything superficial to argue about.

It just highlights the type of person you are.

Don’t you think people deserve a fair salary and decent working conditions?

You haven't made any points though so that doesn't make sense.

At no point if I said they don't deserve it I have said the consequences of this strike action is not inconvenience as you have so inconsiderately put it is people are going to die as a result of this. The Royal college of nursing has already stated that yes this is a distinct possibility. My point is that is hardly a minor inconvenience is it!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston "

No we know they haven't.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston "

I know that the problems passengers experienced on Avanti West Coast and Transpennine (and possibly Northern too) were due to staff refusing to work overtime/on rest days. Pretty much the entire weekend and Bank Holiday schedule seemed to consist of overtime/rest day staffing. Since work to rule, Avanti cut Manchester to London services from 4 or 5 per hour to only 1. These trains are vastly overcrowded, regularly late or cancelled and generally have no functioning loos or other defects. The strike action has come after a fair period of work to rule which has caused significant disruption.

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By *ilfCrumpet9Man
over a year ago

Wirral

Billions of tax payer's money is poured down the drain by the government for example duff ppe during covid scrapped to the tune of 1.4 billion.

Billions more given away to foreign countries to help them. While millions in this country this Christmas are going to freeze, the old aged a small percentage will die of cold and hunger. We have families now relying on food banks.

NHS, transport, teachers provide a valuable service to us all and should be well paid and not have to beg.

This is my own personal opinion not everyone will agree with it but hey ho.

Merry Christmas everyone

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

[Removed by poster at 13/12/22 21:14:46]

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston

No we know they haven't. "

Or actually others claim they have. Do you know for sure that they haven’t?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"If the train drivers stuck with the reason of seeking a wage rise, they would have enjoyed unequivocal public support.

Mick Lynch doesn’t represent train drivers; not in any significant sense.

Mick Lynch is the General Secretary of the RMT, which represents pretty much every other operational grade on the railway except train drivers.

ASLEF is the train drivers’ union.

Stop bringing knowledge and good sense into this!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston

No we know they haven't.

Or actually others claim they have. Do you know for sure that they haven’t?"

From what I've read here and other articles, some of the train operators have, some haven't.

Lorna and Mrs KC herein are both correct.

Winston

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

"I am struggling to understand why anyone has to strike under a government that promised a high wage economy

Because that promise hasn't materialised, especially when the cost of basic living has increased so much in such a short time. "
OH I must have misunderstood . I am sure "they" said wages would go up ,VAT would come off domestic fuel bills and food would be cheaper . I

hope "they" have kept their promise about the blue passports

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston

No we know they haven't.

Or actually others claim they have. Do you know for sure that they haven’t?

From what I've read here and other articles, some of the train operators have, some haven't.

Lorna and Mrs KC herein are both correct.

Winston "

We haven't had a properly running train service up here since before COVID. Before COVID, we had staffing issues, Pacers (1980s bus bodies on rails) that broke down every 5 mins. Then we had COVID decimate the services and it's just got worse since businesses started asking more people to return to offices etc. Mr KC relies on getting the train to work and it's a complete nightmare. There's absolutely no way the South would have this level of crap service for so long because the key business leaders down there would have firmly spat their dummies out and these are people with influence into Govt. Northern, Transpennine and Avanti have been REAWARDED or had franchises renewed by the Govt, despite woeful performance over many years (including previous iterations of companies like Northern, aka Northern Rail, aka Arriva by another name).

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston

No we know they haven't.

Or actually others claim they have. Do you know for sure that they haven’t?

From what I've read here and other articles, some of the train operators have, some haven't.

Lorna and Mrs KC herein are both correct.

Winston

Best live in the South then .

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Yes, of course .

It is a minimal, essential right.

Train companies have bled us dry and it's vital that we don't continue our race to the bottom, forcing so many people to take ever bigger real-terms pay cuts.

The government is obviously incompetent and keen to cause further harm to our country, by refusing to ensure effective negotiations and settlements

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston

No we know they haven't.

Or actually others claim they have. Do you know for sure that they haven’t?

From what I've read here and other articles, some of the train operators have, some haven't.

Lorna and Mrs KC herein are both correct.

Winston

I think I read somewhere Avanti are the worst for customer service, reliability, punctuality and a myriad of other crap.

Didn't their CEO step down recently over it.........?

Winston

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston

No we know they haven't.

Or actually others claim they have. Do you know for sure that they haven’t?

From what I've read here and other articles, some of the train operators have, some haven't.

Lorna and Mrs KC herein are both correct.

Winston

I think I read somewhere Avanti are the worst for customer service, reliability, punctuality and a myriad of other crap.

Didn't their CEO step down recently over it.........?

Winston "

The CEO changed in September but I don't believe the service has improved since then. Avanti, Northern and TP have the worst reliability and punctuality and actually it's worse than the data suggests because "cancellations" don't include things cancelled the night before (only on the day). It's not much help if your 07:30 train is cancelled at 23:58 the night before.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston

No we know they haven't.

Or actually others claim they have. Do you know for sure that they haven’t?

From what I've read here and other articles, some of the train operators have, some haven't.

Lorna and Mrs KC herein are both correct.

Winston

I think I read somewhere Avanti are the worst for customer service, reliability, punctuality and a myriad of other crap.

Didn't their CEO step down recently over it.........?

Winston

Was Avanti the company who took over the franchise from Virgin?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good luck to anyone seeking to improve their pay and conditions but the future of rail travel is clearly driverless. I'm sure the Unions know this and are using their power while they still have it.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

That is usually the first course of action and long before workers vote to strike.

Have they tried all those posibilities/options?

Winston

No we know they haven't.

Or actually others claim they have. Do you know for sure that they haven’t?

From what I've read here and other articles, some of the train operators have, some haven't.

Lorna and Mrs KC herein are both correct.

Winston

I think I read somewhere Avanti are the worst for customer service, reliability, punctuality and a myriad of other crap.

Didn't their CEO step down recently over it.........?

Winston

Was Avanti the company who took over the franchise from Virgin?

Aye, it was. They do the West Coast Mainline between Scotland and London, via Manchester or Wigan. Local services are mainly Northern, some TP Express.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Good luck to anyone seeking to improve their pay and conditions but the future of rail travel is clearly driverless. I'm sure the Unions know this and are using their power while they still have it. "

But surely this action is just going to make automation happen more quickly.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

The voice of reason ...

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"I was talking to a train driver this morning.

His feeling, the strikes are losing the public support.

Strikes over Christmas will be the nail in the coffin of public support.

According to the guy I was speaking to, a lot of other drivers feel the same.

Winston

The ballot results declared last week suggest otherwise...

Did everyone who has the power of vote exercise that power?

It's daft not to of course, these are hard fought for rights.

Winston

A 93% Yes vote, on an average turnout across the 12 operators balloted of 85%.

"Everyone has the right to withdraw labour, as it should be. But striking is not always the best way to hit a company. Working to rule can cost a company huge amounts of money with no repercussions on the workers. They still have to be paid, they can't be sacked for doing it, and companies rely on their staff working around badly drafted procedures and doing things that are actually outside their job description in order to get the job done. Add an overtime ban, and you have a very effective course of industrial action."

At the risk of “trainsplaining”, staff working to rule on the railway would be massively more disruptive to the travelling public than the current stoppages are. I absolutely agree that in many industries it is an effective strategy, but the railway is a vast network of interconnected systems and the failure of one would see a domino effect of failure across others; as is often the case with major disruption from incidents, and is also evident in the difficulties operators have in restarting the service on the days following strike action. Operations, planning and control, both long term and short are a huge challenge. Each train is made up of units that all require planned maintenance to be completed on schedule, so every coach on every train needs to be in the right place to guarantee the it ends up in the workshops at the right time. Each train journey will require a driver, scheduled to be in the right place to take it over, after the correct amount of rest, and with their own work schedule that gets them back to their home depot; guards the same. Each train is pathed to get it from its start point to its destination, crossing over junctions in front of or behind other trains like a bit of insanely complicated clockwork. The driver that brings a train into Paddington might not be the one who takes it out again. Repeat this complexity across all the other different grades; signallers, maintenance staff for track, signals, rolling stock, electrical control staff, groundskeepers, security, revenue, platform staff, dispatchers, cleaners et al and remember that all of these peoples’ jobs are essential.

Staff striking, currently, means that everyone gets a minimum of 14 days notice that there will be no trains whatsoever on a given date.

Staff working to rule means that you might be able to get to work, but not home again. It means that you might get half way to work then have the train you’re sat on cancelled, and the next one not for an hour. As seen from the fiasco at Avanti, it means that services would be cut totally out of the timetable.

Overtime bans, in the situation where we are now, with most operators relying on staff working extra to cover shortfalls in staffing levels, would also mean trains cancelled with little or no notice and at a lot of companies, it would mean no service at all every Sunday. From a union perspective, stopping people from working overtime also puts lots of pressure on them financially, particularly as the people that generally work extra shifts do so because they need to, rather than because they want to.

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By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

There have been several feasibility studies initiated by successive Tory governments on “full automation” of the underground. The technology doesn’t yet exist and, even if it did and was ready to go right now, the cost was projected to run into the trillions and the timescale into decades. Just for the underground, not for the mainline network. Enough to pay human drivers for a thousand years.

Much like those who believe train driving is an unskilled job, those who believe that an industry that’s (currently) focused on funnelling as much public money into shareholders’ and executives’ accounts as possible is likely to invest the stratospheric sums required for full autonomy are living in cloud cuckoo land.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

Bottom line is that if the pay for a job is not enough to live on, then either

(a) Workers will quit and then there will be nobody doing that vital job. So instead of trains cancelled on specific days according to a notified schedule, there will just be no train service period.

(b) If workers are not allowed to quit, and forced to continue working at below living rate wages, then basically that is sl@ve labour, and is unsustainable because the workers will just eventually die. And then there will be no train service period.

The same is true of all vital services. If the wages for performing those services are insufficient, then nobody will perform those services. So ask yourself, who would be missed the most if they all vanished - rail workers, or cabinet members? Health workers, or house of lords members? Industrial workers, or MPs?

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By *alleyDaveMan
over a year ago

Sheffield

"So, here we are again with another set of strikes, starting tomorrow. I would say the yearly december and january strikes.

The rmt union has revealed that more than 40,000 workers across network rail and 14 train operating companies will stage a series of 48 hour walkouts.

Further travel chaos is expected this christmas as thousands of rail workers are set to walk out for a number of 48 hour periods in december and january.

Here are some date of the strikes:

December 13 to 14 - Tuesday and Wednesday

December 16 to 17 - Friday and Saturday

January 3 to 4 - Tuesday and Wednesday

January 6 to 7 - Friday and Saturday

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most.

What are the strikes about, is it about pay and what can be done to see less of the strikes they have?"

It's time strikes were made illegal full stop. Militant unions trying to hold the government to ransom and wrecking ordinary peoples daily lives.

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By *alleyDaveMan
over a year ago

Sheffield

"Shouldn't all industries be allowed to strike "

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"Good luck to anyone seeking to improve their pay and conditions but the future of rail travel is clearly driverless. I'm sure the Unions know this and are using their power while they still have it.

But surely this action is just going to make automation happen more quickly. "
you think the govt have the money to pay for changing over to a driverless automated system throughout the country when they havent got the money or the willpower to fill the none electrified 20 mile gap between stalybridge & huddersfield .still have 5 mechanical signal boxes operating stockport on the west coast mainline laughable .unless it's in the south east they arent interested

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"Good luck to anyone seeking to improve their pay and conditions but the future of rail travel is clearly driverless. I'm sure the Unions know this and are using their power while they still have it.

But surely this action is just going to make automation happen more quickly. you think the govt have the money to pay for changing over to a driverless automated system throughout the country when they havent got the money or the willpower to fill the none electrified 20 mile gap between stalybridge & huddersfield .still have 5 mechanical signal boxes operating stockport on the west coast mainline laughable .unless it's in the south east they arent interested "

They could find the money. Pandemics, wars and other events have proven this over and over.

They don’t have the will or vision, none of them do.

They have 4 years and spend them brushing up their CV and making animal noises at each other in parliament . Our democracy fucks our country

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"So, here we are again with another set of strikes, starting tomorrow. I would say the yearly december and january strikes.

The rmt union has revealed that more than 40,000 workers across network rail and 14 train operating companies will stage a series of 48 hour walkouts.

Further travel chaos is expected this christmas as thousands of rail workers are set to walk out for a number of 48 hour periods in december and january.

Here are some date of the strikes:

December 13 to 14 - Tuesday and Wednesday

December 16 to 17 - Friday and Saturday

January 3 to 4 - Tuesday and Wednesday

January 6 to 7 - Friday and Saturday

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most.

What are the strikes about, is it about pay and what can be done to see less of the strikes they have?

It's time strikes were made illegal full stop. Militant unions trying to hold the government to ransom and wrecking ordinary peoples daily lives. "

How do you propose settling employment disputes when your employer decides to cut your pay & holiday entitlement, knowing full well that you can’t strike?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes.

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By *he ass man 666Man
over a year ago

paradise city

"It's time we stopped blaming the workers and started to blame the real people responsible.

No one goes on strike lightly especially NHS Staff. "

Average salary for a train driver is 48k , starting salary of 28k if your having to use food banks on that wage then your obviously living beyond your means

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"So, here we are again with another set of strikes, starting tomorrow. I would say the yearly december and january strikes.

The rmt union has revealed that more than 40,000 workers across network rail and 14 train operating companies will stage a series of 48 hour walkouts.

Further travel chaos is expected this christmas as thousands of rail workers are set to walk out for a number of 48 hour periods in december and january.

Here are some date of the strikes:

December 13 to 14 - Tuesday and Wednesday

December 16 to 17 - Friday and Saturday

January 3 to 4 - Tuesday and Wednesday

January 6 to 7 - Friday and Saturday

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most.

What are the strikes about, is it about pay and what can be done to see less of the strikes they have?

It's time strikes were made illegal full stop. Militant unions trying to hold the government to ransom and wrecking ordinary peoples daily lives. "

It’s actually the government holding working people to ransom and wrecking ordinary people’s daily lives.

This should be obvious. If it’s not, you shouldn’t be commenting.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"Good luck to anyone seeking to improve their pay and conditions but the future of rail travel is clearly driverless. I'm sure the Unions know this and are using their power while they still have it.

Well said.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"I was talking to a train driver this morning.

His feeling, the strikes are losing the public support.

Strikes over Christmas will be the nail in the coffin of public support.

According to the guy I was speaking to, a lot of other drivers feel the same.

Winston

The ballot results declared last week suggest otherwise...

Did everyone who has the power of vote exercise that power?

It's daft not to of course, these are hard fought for rights.

Winston

A 93% Yes vote, on an average turnout across the 12 operators balloted of 85%.

Everyone has the right to withdraw labour, as it should be. But striking is not always the best way to hit a company. Working to rule can cost a company huge amounts of money with no repercussions on the workers. They still have to be paid, they can't be sacked for doing it, and companies rely on their staff working around badly drafted procedures and doing things that are actually outside their job description in order to get the job done. Add an overtime ban, and you have a very effective course of industrial action.

Staff striking, currently, means that everyone gets a minimum of 14 days notice that there will be no trains whatsoever on a given date.

Good to see someone commenting on this who knows what they are talking about, rather than the usual ill-informed Fabberish!

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By *armandwet50Couple
over a year ago

Far far away

"Good luck to anyone seeking to improve their pay and conditions but the future of rail travel is clearly driverless. I'm sure the Unions know this and are using their power while they still have it.

Will labour do this if they ever get into power?

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

Its been an interesting discussion everyone

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