FabSwingers.com forum: Vehicle mechanic electrician help please.

By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

My elderly Vivaro van has blown 3 starting motors in as many months.

My mechanic is clutching at straws & they’ve finally had an electrician look at it who’s ascertained the starter is blown. We knew that, what he has said it could be one of 2 issue. Ignition switch or dual mass flywheel.

Dmf I’ve been told is a big job & gearbox out, & there’s no way of telling until it’s removed if there’s an issue or not.

The latest thing my mechanic says he doesn’t know if my van has a Dmf.

Well if he doesn’t know how an earth do I know, is there anyway I can find out?

Any input gratefully received. Thanks.

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By *ris GrayMan
over a year ago

Dorchester

DPF you mean diesel particulate filter on vauxhall they can be a nightmare you need to clean them regularly to stop them getting blocked I had a vivaro and it had that problem

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By *ubmissiveman2uMan
over a year ago

Cheshire

Ring Vauxhall main dealer with the chassis number which is on the passenger side of dash look outside in you will see a long number and letters. Ring Vauxhall they will tell you from that.

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By *hromosexualsCouple
over a year ago

Near Abercynon

"DPF you mean diesel particulate filter on vauxhall they can be a nightmare you need to clean them regularly to stop them getting blocked I had a vivaro and it had that problem

No, dual mass flywheel...

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By *hromosexualsCouple
over a year ago

Near Abercynon

What do they mean by "blown"? Is it a case that the starter motor has failed electrically, of do they think its a problem between the interface of the starter motor and the flywheel?

What happens when you turn the key?

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By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago

taunton

Blown is a strange expression to use for a faulty starter, DMF flywheels can be changed for a standard one in some cases but still a fairly major job could soon be more than the vehicle is worth, There are a lot of very poor quality replacement parts available nowadays maybe just the fact that the starters are shite, but 3 times is a bit much, presumably they are being replaced under some kind of warranty

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By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago

taunton

P.S. we need more info on the exact failure to make a valid judgement.

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By *ris GrayMan
over a year ago

Dorchester

"DPF you mean diesel particulate filter on vauxhall they can be a nightmare you need to clean them regularly to stop them getting blocked I had a vivaro and it had that problem

No, dual mass flywheel..."
ahhh OK never heard of that one

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By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago

taunton

P.S. I would have thought they could make a fairly good guess if its the flywheel causing the problem when they have the starter off by levering the flywheel with a screwdriver or similar does seem a bit unlikely.

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By *hromosexualsCouple
over a year ago

Near Abercynon

"Blown is a strange expression to use for a faulty starter"

Agreed. Also I can't understand how it can be an issue with the ignition switch *or* the flywheel, two pretty different failures.

Agree ref needing more info.

PS - the older 1.9 diesel has the single mass flywheel I think. Still a fairly big job if you have to go that deep into it.

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

All starter motor are reconditioned from old which has been going on since early 90s. If the starter motor is blowing up it seems like an electric issue a starter motor is only used to turn the engine and no further usage

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

Auto electrician

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By *oldswarriorMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

First off, is it the same garage that has fitted the three starters?

What is the reason for the starter failure, is it remaining engaged after ignition?

The DMF is bollox unless it's stripped the ring gear which if it has would indicate continuous starter engagement.

Water in your fuse box is a possibility. Is it causing a permanently closed circuit on the starter relay after you turn on the ignition.

The starter can be bench tested to see if the starter motor and solenoid work correctly.

This is a really simple test for any garage.

Going a bit deeper a continuity test of the ignition system may be required.

It will tell you if there is a short in the system, and if the starter is receiving a constant feed from the battery.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Usually there's vibration associated with DMF failure. If it's a diesel produced in the last 15 - 20yrs there's a good chance it'll have one it's probably a £650 job.

Personally I'd be looking more at the ignition side of things first.

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By *dam1971Man
over a year ago

Bedford

Agree with above - you should ask what kind of failure the starter motor had to try and determine the cause. Also any other symptoms just before it failed like turning slowly, making a grinding noise etc?

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By *ttmcdguyTV/TS
over a year ago

Milton Keynes

Let me put some light on this

The flywheel would only burn the starter out !!

If !

The starter wasn’t disengaging after the engine was running!!

Hence the starter motor would keep spinning with the flywheel thus burning it out quite quickly might I add

So this leads me to possibly the starter solinoid which should be present on any new starter motor supplied

So I would now question the reliability of the new parts that have been fitted !

Your best bet is to stop going to back street garages

Take it directly to the local Main dealer!!

They will charge from £100-200 to diagnose the issue!!

Once you have correct information then take it to the back street garage and have the work done at a fraction of the Vauxhall costs

Ps I would suggest buying a decent known brand starter motor

As someone already said to many cheap Chinese parts in the uk being sold by reprible carparts suppliers

Ask in Vauxhall forum too see if anyone else has same problem or if they know how to fix it

I wish you luck

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By *othicslaveCouple
over a year ago

Norfolk

I would be checking the fuse box and all the wiring no water in the fuse box or damp the wiring has no cuts or breaks in and it's shorting out check all the earth wires have not turned green.

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By *mrangerMan
over a year ago

exeter

"My elderly Vivaro van has blown 3 starting motors in as many months.

Dmf I’ve been told is a big job & gearbox out, & there’s no way of telling until it’s removed if there’s an issue or not.

The latest thing my mechanic says he doesn’t know if my van has a Dmf.

Well if he doesn’t know how an earth do I know, is there anyway I can find out?

Any input gratefully received. Thanks. "
what is the vivaro age and engine size

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By *agicfingers1Man
over a year ago

near Brighton

Not saying it's the same issue on your vivaro but......

On Ford Transit when the dual mass flywheel is failing, it fills the starter motor with iron fillings, therefore causing the starter to fail. This could be the reason for your starter failing.

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By *G CoupleCouple
over a year ago

kent

"My elderly Vivaro van has blown 3 starting motors in as many months.

Dmf I’ve been told is a big job & gearbox out, & there’s no way of telling until it’s removed if there’s an issue or not.

The latest thing my mechanic says he doesn’t know if my van has a Dmf.

Well if he doesn’t know how an earth do I know, is there anyway I can find out?

Any input gratefully received. Thanks. "

What was the cost of the starter replacement? May just be cheap starter motors used.

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

Many thanks for all of your input. I am a complete novice when it comes to mechanics. Here’s what I know for definite.

My Vivaro is a 2008 2 litre diesel.

Van wouldn’t start some while ago, it would start on a push down a hill but when the key was turned it was dead. An aftermarket SM was fitted & after 2 weeks it had the same issue. Another SM was fitted & after 2 weeks the same it failed. A 3rd SM was fitted this time a Bosch one after about 6 weeks same issue.

In between I did have another breakdown & the van turned over but wouldn’t start, apparently this is to do with the EGR valve light which is on. This has not been fixed as the van is not starting, to be able to get it to a specialist garage. This is 100% a different issue as the van would turn over.

The last thing that’s happened is an auto sparky came out & confirmed SM was broke (even I knew that)

He says ignition switch or DMF which the garage agree with.

It’s so unreliable & I want to replace it but with this issue I can’t. DMF is an expensive repair but might not be if I don’t have one, garage aren’t sure.

HELP.

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By *ood time Chris BMan
over a year ago

TAUNTON AREA

"My elderly Vivaro van has blown 3 starting motors in as many months.

Dmf I’ve been told is a big job & gearbox out, & there’s no way of telling until it’s removed if there’s an issue or not.

The latest thing my mechanic says he doesn’t know if my van has a Dmf.

Well if he doesn’t know how an earth do I know, is there anyway I can find out?

Any input gratefully received. Thanks. "

Dual Mass Flywheel

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By *oldswarriorMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

"My elderly Vivaro van has blown 3 starting motors in as many months.

Dmf I’ve been told is a big job & gearbox out, & there’s no way of telling until it’s removed if there’s an issue or not.

The latest thing my mechanic says he doesn’t know if my van has a Dmf.

Well if he doesn’t know how an earth do I know, is there anyway I can find out?

Any input gratefully received. Thanks.

Dual Mass Flywheel "

The vehicle has had three starters.

Even if the first had failed due to contamination from the DMS, the susceptible wear and vibration from the DMS would be felt and probably audible.

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

"My elderly Vivaro van has blown 3 starting motors in as many months.

Dmf I’ve been told is a big job & gearbox out, & there’s no way of telling until it’s removed if there’s an issue or not.

The latest thing my mechanic says he doesn’t know if my van has a Dmf.

Well if he doesn’t know how an earth do I know, is there anyway I can find out?

Any input gratefully received. Thanks.

Dual Mass Flywheel

The vehicle has had three starters.

Even if the first had failed due to contamination from the DMS, the susceptible wear and vibration from the DMS would be felt and probably audible.

No vibration & no noise tells you it’s not the DMF but like I said we don’t know if my van has one??

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By *hromosexualsCouple
over a year ago

Near Abercynon

The 2 litre diesel will have the dual mass flywheel. I still don't really get why they think it might be a flywheel issue though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Take your reg to a car parts shop like bullseye they will check it out and tell you if it's a dmf or not they are no harder to do than a standard one just usually twice as much dmt(duel mass flywheel)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Many thanks for all of your input. I am a complete novice when it comes to mechanics. Here’s what I know for definite.

My Vivaro is a 2008 2 litre diesel.

The last thing that’s happened is an auto sparky came out & confirmed SM was broke (even I knew that)

He says ignition switch or DMF which the garage agree with.

It’s so unreliable & I want to replace it but with this issue I can’t. DMF is an expensive repair but might not be if I don’t have one, garage aren’t sure.

HELP. "

The EGR probably just wants cleaning and lubricating. It's actually a really easy job for any garage, do t let them try to sell you a new one before they've cleaned the old one. If you have a set of spanners you could probably do it yourself with the help of YouTube. That being said, the EGR shouldn't stop it starting.

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By *ttmcdguyTV/TS
over a year ago

Milton Keynes

If it is the dmf without putting a damper on your bonfire the vehicle probably isn’t worth spending that much on the repair

Would be false economics to pile upwards of a grand into it when it’s theoretically not worth much more than the repair costs

And with it being of age chances are will just be something else expensive soon after

Ps I mean that in the nicest of ways btw no sarcasm just honest advice

Sometimes it’s better to sift it on rather than ongoing wallet drain !

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

"Many thanks for all of your input. I am a complete novice when it comes to mechanics. Here’s what I know for definite.

My Vivaro is a 2008 2 litre diesel.

The last thing that’s happened is an auto sparky came out & confirmed SM was broke (even I knew that)

He says ignition switch or DMF which the garage agree with.

It’s so unreliable & I want to replace it but with this issue I can’t. DMF is an expensive repair but might not be if I don’t have one, garage aren’t sure.

HELP.

The EGR does need some attention I’ve got an Engine light on which scans as EGR, when the light was on the engine turned over, but failed to start, when the light was switched off it started, so can only assume EGR is stopping it from starting.

Now when you turn the key nothing happens this is a separate unrelated starting motor issue.

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By *lubchuckerMan
over a year ago

Oxfordshire

I bet if you remove the starter motor it'll be caked in iron fillings indicating a dmf beginning to die

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By *m3232Man
over a year ago

maidenhead

How long does it take to start once you turn the key

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

"I bet if you remove the starter motor it'll be caked in iron fillings indicating a dmf beginning to die "

So the fact they’ve replaced 3 SM’s & not mentioned iron filings is a good indicator the DMF is ok?

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

"How long does it take to start once you turn the key "

When you turn the key nothing happens it’s dead as the starting motor has failed, not once but 3 times.

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By *razytimesinloveCouple
over a year ago

SW Scotland

Easiest option would be fit and new ignition switch and test electrics, once garage is happy with that then fit starter and start/stop engine a good number of times.

Take starter back off and check for damage/wear.

In fact while starter is off they could drop a magnet down the hole and see if it comes back covered in metal filings first

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

"Not saying it's the same issue on your vivaro but......

On Ford Transit when the dual mass flywheel is failing, it fills the starter motor with iron fillings, therefore causing the starter to fail. This could be the reason for your starter failing. "
this also happens with dust from the clutch..

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

"Easiest option would be fit and new ignition switch and test electrics, once garage is happy with that then fit starter and start/stop engine a good number of times.

Take starter back off and check for damage/wear.

They are fitting a new starter (number 4) & then we’ll look at the ignition switch. Would the ignition switch work for a couple of weeks & then cause the SM to blow, or longer in the better quality SM?

In fact while starter is off they could drop a magnet down the hole and see if it comes back covered in metal filings first "

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By *razytimesinloveCouple
over a year ago

SW Scotland

The switch could be causing the starter to run on if it’s sticking/not returning correctly. Same could go for the starter relay

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Many thanks for all of your input. I am a complete novice when it comes to mechanics. Here’s what I know for definite.

My Vivaro is a 2008 2 litre diesel.

The last thing that’s happened is an auto sparky came out & confirmed SM was broke (even I knew that)

He says ignition switch or DMF which the garage agree with.

It’s so unreliable & I want to replace it but with this issue I can’t. DMF is an expensive repair but might not be if I don’t have one, garage aren’t sure.

HELP.

Now when you turn the key nothing happens this is a separate unrelated starting motor issue. "

The EGR isn't stopping it starting. It doesn't even activate until the engine is already running.

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

"Many thanks for all of your input. I am a complete novice when it comes to mechanics. Here’s what I know for definite.

My Vivaro is a 2008 2 litre diesel.

The last thing that’s happened is an auto sparky came out & confirmed SM was broke (even I knew that)

He says ignition switch or DMF which the garage agree with.

It’s so unreliable & I want to replace it but with this issue I can’t. DMF is an expensive repair but might not be if I don’t have one, garage aren’t sure.

HELP.

Now when you turn the key nothing happens this is a separate unrelated starting motor issue.

The EGR isn't stopping it starting. It doesn't even activate until the engine is already running."

I probably shouldn’t have mentioned the EGR, this is a separate issue as to what’s happening with the starting motor. However when the EM light came on (EGR code) the van wouldn’t start, when the light was reset the van did start.

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By *m3232Man
over a year ago

maidenhead

"How long does it take to start once you turn the key

When you turn the key nothing happens it’s dead as the starting motor has failed, not once but 3 times. "

Maybe should have frazed it differently. When the car pre starts with a good starter does it start as quick as it should or is it a pig to get going. You could be overheating the starter by cranking for to long hence why they are failing so quick

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By *isurreyguy2019Man
over a year ago

surrey

Did the auto sparky test the battery? Because a weak battery or loose and corroded terminals can cause various problems.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dual mass flywheel issue is common, EGR valve is required to start as it closes its intake to create a vacuum to fire up then opens to allow he engine to run and breath, as the van isnt cranking over, EGR isn’t the issue.

Trafic’s, vivaro’s and primastar’s all share the same guts and issues, an often overlooked issue is the black cap on the ignition switch, which can power up the solenoid causing the gear to constantly mesh with the flywheel.

The starter motor can also spin constantly without engaging the solenoid, boy of these cause premature failure, the second is harder to listen out for.

DMF is essentially 2 plates mounted on top of each other joined together by a mechanism which increases centrifugal forces to allow it to rotate longer thus reducing stress and drag.

When the internal mechanism fails, the plates are misaligned and he ring gear is no longer square to the spur of the starter, if the flywheel is contacting the bell housing of the gear box or end of the block it puts more resistance on the starter, thus making it work harder and burning it out quicker.

The issue is more than likely DMF.

The electrics, ignoring the risk permanent engagement for the time being, appear to be ok as 3 starters do the job as instructed.

They will struggle to see any wobble or damage on the flywheel unless gearbox is removed.

Refrain from bump or push starting this series of vans, they have a timing chain which the tensioner is oil fed and primed via the crank, so when it turns over, oil pressure is raised and the tensioner des it’s job, when bump starting, especially if it’s stood for a while, there is no pressure on the tensioner and the chain is slack, bump starting can cause the timing to jump and the thing will never run.

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By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago

taunton

Now we are getting there we have a guy who seems to have some skilled knowledge of these vehicles, very interesting.

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

"How long does it take to start once you turn the key

When you turn the key nothing happens it’s dead as the starting motor has failed, not once but 3 times.

Starts with no issues. Somethings causing the 3 starters to fail??

No issues with the battery.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A starter motor failure is a common fault if the DMF is breakng up. It gives off small particals of iron dust that gets into the starter moter as it contains magnets. This shorts out the starter motor. If you got through 3 and all same fault my money is on a duall mass fault. No point keep fitting starters unless you selling it

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

"A starter motor failure is a common fault if the DMF is breakng up. It gives off small particals of iron dust that gets into the starter moter as it contains magnets. This shorts out the starter motor. If you got through 3 and all same fault my money is on a duall mass fault. No point keep fitting starters unless you selling it"

To date they’ve been replaced under warranty, there’s no noise or iron dust & my mechanic contacted his parts supplier to get a price for a DMF. They don’t list one so he believes my van doesn’t have one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How does it feel to change gear, set off? Any vibration or feedback through the clutch pedal?

The flywheel could be warped causing unnecessary binding.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now we are getting there we have a guy who seems to have some skilled knowledge of these vehicles, very interesting."

18 years roadside technician, Audi apprenticeship program.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the DMF has fouled up 3 starter motors then it must be disintegrating at an alarming rate.

The starters are mounted around the 10 o’clock / 2 o’clock position, there’s very minimal access for the filings to get into the guts of the starter, can only really clog up round the spur gear, plus, there is usually a hole at 6 o’clock in the bell housing, designed to allow foreign debris to fall out.

Something is putting a strain on the starter, either misalignment of the ring gear and spur or permanent power to the starter, either the solenoid(would be incredibly noisy) or to the windings themselves.

Another option is batch of faulty starters, many expensive brands are restickered cheaper brands.

I wonder if the more expensive manufacturer of starter is under the umbrella of the expensive brand?

Turn the key to ign on, then to start, the key should quite confidently spring back, as said previous the black cap could be damaged(common issue) and causing permanent power to the starter.

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

"How does it feel to change gear, set off? Any vibration or feedback through the clutch pedal?

The flywheel could be warped causing unnecessary binding. "

None of the above, they are going to put a new SM motor in & then suggest I drive it somewhere while it’s working for further investigations. They haven’t tried the ignition switch apparently it’s not obvious how to remove it.

My mechanic says the likelihood of 3 faulty starters is highly unlikely, there’s something causing them to fail but not immediately. (Every couple of weeks for the cheaper ones & nearly 7 for the expensive ones.

Does it make a difference if as the garage suspects it doesn’t have a DMF? Surely somebody must be able to answer that question?

Thanks again for your wisdom.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How does it feel to change gear, set off? Any vibration or feedback through the clutch pedal?

The flywheel could be warped causing unnecessary binding.

Does it make a difference if as the garage suspects it doesn’t have a DMF? Surely somebody must be able to answer that question?

Thanks again for your wisdom. "

It’s easy to remove the ignition switch, the tumblers in my old work van, 10 plate vivaro, collapsed on the drive, 15 min and it was out and detumbled, the spring in the back cap had snapped and not put tension on the lock so the key wouldn’t fit in, its about 5 min to do with the steering lock off.

Going off the time scale it seems to be the starter is getting a live and running constantly. The quality in the electrical parts probably back this up, if it was flywheel warped or binding it would demolish the starters in the same amount of time or at least, nearly Same amount of time.

I’d suggest wiring the solenoid wire to a separate switch, push button start, but, don’t permanently mount it just yet, just have it loose for a few weeks and see how the starter lasts, this will rule out a permanent feed to the starter.

As for the DMF mystery, there’s many instances where back logs of parts were used up on random vans, or, certain vans were tried with different parts for newer models.

Went to a 18 plate ducato motor home, it should have stop start, it should have the stop start battery, but as it was in actual fact a 17 plate low spec van cab converted to a motor home(conversations can take a good 9 month), it wasn’t registered until it passed the cva test so it was registered as a late18 plate and falls under that umbrella and causes all sorts of problems cross referencing parts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"First off, is it the same garage that has fitted the three starters?

What is the reason for the starter failure, is it remaining engaged after ignition?

The DMF is bollox unless it's stripped the ring gear which if it has would indicate continuous starter engagement.

Water in your fuse box is a possibility. Is it causing a permanently closed circuit on the starter relay after you turn on the ignition.

The starter can be bench tested to see if the starter motor and solenoid work correctly.

This is a really simple test for any garage.

Going a bit deeper a continuity test of the ignition system may be required.

It will tell you if there is a short in the system, and if the starter is receiving a constant feed from the battery.

I’ve got a Vivaro as a project van…remind me to ask you if there’s any problems with it…

F (Mrs)

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By *layTimeEssexCouple
over a year ago

Stansted

"DPF you mean diesel particulate filter on vauxhall they can be a nightmare you need to clean them regularly to stop them getting blocked I had a vivaro and it had that problem

No OP meant DMF - dual mass flywheel that is fitted to lots of manual cars with diesel engines especially. DPF a whole different ball game.

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By *oment on the lipsMan
over a year ago

London

Egr will stop it starting. I've got a 2014. Transit and just like this naughty couple the computer said egr.. butbfor some stupid reason I thought I would change the batteries, starter, sensors and a few other things before biting the bullet and getting a new egr and guess what....? It still didn't start.. lol only joking.. put the new egr on and started straight away.. charge batteries and new egr and I recon ur off.. I had abvivaronthat had a cutoff switch if you ever did work relating to fuel system so be sure to press that before you try to start it up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Egr will stop it starting. I've got a 2014. Transit and just like this naughty couple the computer said egr.. butbfor some stupid reason I thought I would change the batteries, starter, sensors and a few other things before biting the bullet and getting a new egr and guess what....? It still didn't start.. lol only joking.. put the new egr on and started straight away.. charge batteries and new egr and I recon ur off.. I had abvivaronthat had a cutoff switch if you ever did work relating to fuel system so be sure to press that before you try to start it up"

A faulty EGR wouldn’t stop the engine from turning over or be responsible for 3 starters in such a short space of time.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

DMF dual mass flywheel is a flywheel that comes in two halves attached together by large strong springs this is to help dissipate some of the torque and vibration from modern engines making them smoother .when these reach high mileage the springs begin to fail causing excessive wear to the clutch resulting in the starter getting clogged with dust and debris leading to starter failure and clutch issues .when changing the old unit has to be removed so that the correct replacement can be ordered and fitted .on some it is an expensive part on some its an expensive job on some its both ! using second hand is feasable if you can get the right dmf/clutch combo for your vehicle there can be as many as five different flywheels for each engine and trans . sorry OP sounds like its about to get costly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Spoke to a Vauxhall tech today.

Common issue, the ignition switch.

Gives the starter a permanent live, sometimes constant 12v, more often than not less than 8v, keeps the starter semi engaged.

Get it replaced and tell the garage to fit an independent push button to start the van, rendering the vans wiring redundant. Will cost about £10 on top of starter replacement.

Nothing to do with DMF or dust and debris getting into the starter.

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By *ex-a-frolics OP Couple
over a year ago

Brizzle

"Spoke to a Vauxhall tech today.

Common issue, the ignition switch.

Gives the starter a permanent live, sometimes constant 12v, more often than not less than 8v, keeps the starter semi engaged.

That’s really useful, so it doesn’t cause the starter to go straight away, it’s a gradual thing. Thanks very much for all your help & support. I’ll keep you updated once it’s been changed.

Get it replaced and tell the garage to fit an independent push button to start the van, rendering the vans wiring redundant. Will cost about £10 on top of starter replacement.

Nothing to do with DMF or dust and debris getting into the starter. "

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