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Suicide

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I felt the need to bring up this thread for 2 reasons first i lost 2 members of my family, my grandma and a short time later my auntie to suicide and because i am from Germany this was the week when the German national goalkeeper committed suicide.

My question is are people that do this brave or extremely selfish, as we didnt get a chance to say goodbye.

I would welcome your views, good or bad. xx

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Their life - their choice - we all go sometime.

OK - there are exceptions to that statement - such as if the reason they wish to end their life is being imposed on them by other people. But if it is an act of free will because they have just had enough.... it's their life.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I cant help feeling that they were selfish by doing what they did, if they could only have talked about it, maybe we could have helped.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I felt the need to bring up this thread for 2 reasons first i lost 2 members of my family, my grandma and a short time later my auntie to suicide and because i am from Germany this was the week when the German national goalkeeper committed suicide.

My question is are people that do this brave or extremely selfish, as we didnt get a chance to say goodbye.

I would welcome your views, good or bad. xx"

Simply : they should not be judged as either.

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

For my self I would presume someone is in a sever state of anxiety and depression to take there own life. I some how doubt they considered how others would view there actions. I guess in one way it could be classed as selfish but I would my self feel anguish for there distress and unhappiness driving them to such actions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I cant help feeling that they were selfish by doing what they did, if they could only have talked about it, maybe we could have helped."

Or is it yourself you want to help ?

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By *-and-KCouple
over a year ago

Back of Beyond

They are neither brave nor selfish. They are so depressed that the only way out for them they can see is to end it all. Lack of support from friends family members who failed to spot the warning signs? Nobody to blame yet everyone to blame.

There is a proviso here of course. All those who voluntarily take the suicide route due to the onset of seriously debilitating illness. These people have thought long and hard over what they are to do, and usually have discussed it with family and friends and the medicla profession first,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

but aren't they topping themselves cos they feel they can't talk about it?

Aren't mental health issues the cause of a lot of suicides? Not realy fare to define someone as selfish if they are soo ill that they aren't thinking straight

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By *riendlyfunfemWoman
over a year ago

A world of my own

I don't think its anything to do with being brave or selfish. I think if we are all honest most of us will admit to having suicidle thoughts at some point in our lives but 99% of people realise how stupid it would be and solve nothing as things always change no matter how difficult it is to believe it at the time. But for some people the ability to think reasonably and sensibly is impossible, and sadly those people go on to kill themselves, mostly it is a cry for help, but most of the time help doesn't come. No one can know what goes on in another persons mind. There but for the grace of God!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i dont feel they are brave or selfish, most people who resort to doing this arnt thinking straight at the time, my sister who suffered from Anorexia and depression and all the things that come with mental illnesses for many years and made many suicide attempts, i do not believe she was acting in a selfish mannor, i think she was just so down in life she just wasnt thinking at all

Befor you can even begin to understand why people do this you have to understand why they do it

Its ok sitting there in your 'normal' and 'sane' mind saying they are just selfish and cowards etc but not everyone is lucky enough to have such a grip on reality

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think its awful when someone is tempted to do it.. let alone do it.

The desperation at the time must be immense.. I'd like to think if I ever got thinking that way, someone would be able to spot it and help maybe... I feel for you, truly I do..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't think its anything to do with being brave or selfish. I think if we are all honest most of us will admit to having suicidle thoughts at some point in our lives but 99% of people realise how stupid it would be and solve nothing as things always change no matter how difficult it is to believe it at the time. But for some people the ability to think reasonably and sensibly is impossible, and sadly those people go on to kill themselves, mostly it is a cry for help, but most of the time help doesn't come. No one can know what goes on in another persons mind. There but for the grace of God!"

The Grace of God ? Are you saying he made them do it ? Let them do it ?

Why does everyone assume that suicide cases were unable to 'see' so killed themselves?

Maybe their thinking was so crystal that they saw more and further than those who stick around.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i have lost 8 friends to suicide all by hanging all male, i would say it is a brave thing to do because ultimatly it is their own decision and also at the same time it is very selfish, it takes alot of gutts to do something like that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Must be bad for them as they felt they had no other option to their problem/issue/dilemma...

If they say goodbye, then their family could get wind of it. Very difficult and emotive issue. But at the end of the day, it's their life or was...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Phew ! A Heavy thread, but an interesting one ...

Brave or selfish .... ?

I think probably a mix of both and also a million and one other emotions into the bargain.

I'll say one thing, in years gone by, I've been so down down down that I've (Bob here btw) contemplated suicide but did I have the guts to actually go through with it ? I'm still here so that answers the question.

I think that anyone who goes through with it is incredibly brave, very very brave indeed.

Whether it is selfish, right or wrong is s question which, in my opinion, has no definitive answer.

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Once again, Granny talks sense.

The counter argument to people taking their lifes when their mind was in "imbalance" is that maybe they took their life because they could see with total clarity the pointlessness of life, and it's the rest of us who are deluded.

People take their lives for all sorts of reasons and under all sorts of circumstances, i for one would never judge....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i have lost 8 friends to suicide all by hanging all male, i would say it is a brave thing to do because ultimatly it is their own decision and also at the same time it is very selfish, it takes alot of gutts to do something like that."
jeeze ,,, DONT add me as a friend

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I cant really explain it, just one day your life is ticking on then suddenly within 3 months 2 of your nearest and dearest arent there anymore, illness i could except but suicide thats different.

Cant help feeling they were selfish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

The counter argument to people taking their lifes when their mind was in "imbalance" is that maybe they took their life because they could see with total clarity the pointlessness of life, and it's the rest of us who are deluded.

"

Im sorry, but thats just complete twaddle, if we saw things clearer we would all top ourselves??? hmmmm,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have had a few people suffer the after effects of suicide and most recently on saturday.

Having seen the destruction and hurt it does to people left behind, leaving questions such as why, and guilt that they didnt see a problem, where unable to help or even question their care for these people i have to say although the initial taking of ones own life is a brave momentary decision, the inevitable out come from it is a selfish one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i have lost 8 friends to suicide all by hanging all male, i would say it is a brave thing to do because ultimatly it is their own decision and also at the same time it is very selfish, it takes alot of gutts to do something like that. jeeze ,,, DONT add me as a friend "

sorry.... Made me piss lol...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i have lost 8 friends to suicide all by hanging all male, i would say it is a brave thing to do because ultimatly it is their own decision and also at the same time it is very selfish, it takes alot of gutts to do something like that. jeeze ,,, DONT add me as a friend "

LOL .... callous , flippant , thoughtless ....... Been to the Jimmy Carr school of edginess ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

The counter argument to people taking their lifes when their mind was in "imbalance" is that maybe they took their life because they could see with total clarity the pointlessness of life, and it's the rest of us who are deluded.

Im sorry, but thats just complete twaddle, if we saw things clearer we would all top ourselves??? hmmmm, "

How rude of you to call my contribution twaddle - FAT FINGERS -. It's slightly less simple. If one has clarity AND does not like what they see they then make the choice.

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By *riendlyfunfemWoman
over a year ago

A world of my own


"I don't think its anything to do with being brave or selfish. I think if we are all honest most of us will admit to having suicidle thoughts at some point in our lives but 99% of people realise how stupid it would be and solve nothing as things always change no matter how difficult it is to believe it at the time. But for some people the ability to think reasonably and sensibly is impossible, and sadly those people go on to kill themselves, mostly it is a cry for help, but most of the time help doesn't come. No one can know what goes on in another persons mind. There but for the grace of God!

The Grace of God ? Are you saying he made them do it ? Let them do it ?

Why does everyone assume that suicide cases were unable to 'see' so killed themselves?

Maybe their thinking was so crystal that they saw more and further than those who stick around. "

I'm saying it could happen to anyone, who knows how deparate or depressed any of us will become. When someones mind snaps they are not thinkling rationally, simple as that.

I have dealt with dozens of suicides and the conseqenses of those suicides over the years in my job, and the way they took their lives varies from drugs/drink to hanging to laying on a railway line and everything else in between.

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By *assie4Couple
over a year ago

highlands

i dont think any of us can judge either way ..only the person deciding to take their own life can say either way and because they do it alone n in pain we shall never know the true reason or how they truly feel at the moment it happens./..hope this makes sense

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I cant really explain it, just one day your life is ticking on then suddenly within 3 months 2 of your nearest and dearest arent there anymore, illness i could except but suicide thats different.

Cant help feeling they were selfish. "

They were ill. Not selfish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i have lost 8 friends to suicide all by hanging all male, i would say it is a brave thing to do because ultimatly it is their own decision and also at the same time it is very selfish, it takes alot of gutts to do something like that. jeeze ,,, DONT add me as a friend

sorry.... Made me piss lol... "

Me too. I am now slapping myself.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I feel i should apologise i didnt mean to depress everyone with such a morbid thread, however it did seem topical what with recent events in Germany, thanks for all your comments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

The counter argument to people taking their lifes when their mind was in "imbalance" is that maybe they took their life because they could see with total clarity the pointlessness of life, and it's the rest of us who are deluded.

Im sorry, but thats just complete twaddle, if we saw things clearer we would all top ourselves??? hmmmm,

How rude of you to call my contribution twaddle - FAT FINGERS -. It's slightly less simple. If one has clarity AND does not like what they see they then make the choice. "

Ahhhhhh, I see, its name calling day, I didn't get the memo, however I will resist, I was merely pointing out the error in suggesting the THE REST OF US ARE DELUDED BY OUR LACK OF CLEAR VISION,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't think its anything to do with being brave or selfish. I think if we are all honest most of us will admit to having suicidle thoughts at some point in our lives but 99% of people realise how stupid it would be and solve nothing as things always change no matter how difficult it is to believe it at the time. But for some people the ability to think reasonably and sensibly is impossible, and sadly those people go on to kill themselves, mostly it is a cry for help, but most of the time help doesn't come. No one can know what goes on in another persons mind. There but for the grace of God!

The Grace of God ? Are you saying he made them do it ? Let them do it ?

Why does everyone assume that suicide cases were unable to 'see' so killed themselves?

Maybe their thinking was so crystal that they saw more and further than those who stick around.

I'm saying it could happen to anyone, who knows how deparate or depressed any of us will become. When someones mind snaps they are not thinkling rationally, simple as that.

I have dealt with dozens of suicides and the conseqenses of those suicides over the years in my job, and the way they took their lives varies from drugs/drink to hanging to laying on a railway line and everything else in between.

"

Thanks FFF xxx but I meant the God quote. It is NOT God's grace that saves you. There is no God.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

The counter argument to people taking their lifes when their mind was in "imbalance" is that maybe they took their life because they could see with total clarity the pointlessness of life, and it's the rest of us who are deluded.

Im sorry, but thats just complete twaddle, if we saw things clearer we would all top ourselves??? hmmmm,

How rude of you to call my contribution twaddle - FAT FINGERS -. It's slightly less simple. If one has clarity AND does not like what they see they then make the choice.

Ahhhhhh, I see, its name calling day, I didn't get the memo, however I will resist, I was merely pointing out the error in suggesting the THE REST OF US ARE DELUDED BY OUR LACK OF CLEAR VISION, "

Name calling day was invented very recently by a Scots person ( gender unknown ) and the first shot in their book was Twaddle.

As for people being deluded.....those were your words not mine. Please feel free to hammer holes in what you don't agree with but make the comments pertinent to honest quotes.

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By *ishful.thinkingWoman
over a year ago

east london

My sister in law committed suicide about 7 years ago leaving behind a very young family. She suffered for many years with depression and paranoia.

I hope now she’s found the peace that she was always searching for but the transition and questions the children were left with will always be with them.

I don’t believe there is a right or wrong to this, nor set of circumstance which leads and individual down this path, for them it is the only path they see as viable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

The counter argument to people taking their lifes when their mind was in "imbalance" is that maybe they took their life because they could see with total clarity the pointlessness of life, and it's the rest of us who are deluded.

Im sorry, but thats just complete twaddle, if we saw things clearer we would all top ourselves??? hmmmm,

How rude of you to call my contribution twaddle - FAT FINGERS -. It's slightly less simple. If one has clarity AND does not like what they see they then make the choice.

Ahhhhhh, I see, its name calling day, I didn't get the memo, however I will resist, I was merely pointing out the error in suggesting the THE REST OF US ARE DELUDED BY OUR LACK OF CLEAR VISION,

Name calling day was invented very recently by a Scots person ( gender unknown ) and the first shot in their book was Twaddle.

As for people being deluded.....those were your words not mine. Please feel free to hammer holes in what you don't agree with but make the comments pertinent to honest quotes. "

Pssssst Granny, the twaddle reference was to the thinking that we are deluded (not to any person) , and if you would like to pop back to earlier in the thread you might notice I didn't even quote you, it was another poster altogether that suggested we were deluded in our lack of clarity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i dont know if its right or wrong thing to do, but i know a few people who should defo do it.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Some people are born without the ability to cope with life…either mentally or physically. We (the civilised world) with all of out medical advances always seem to think the right way to deal with everything is to put a plaster on it. Sometimes all the plaster does is help someone exist… living is about more than existing.

Not all with mental health issues take their life because they are in a spiral of despair… some just don’t want the plaster anymore. Some just don’t enjoy the prospect of being dumb on pills…. is it living life or existing? For some being able to get out of bed in the morning just isn’t enough… they need more to make it worth while. Sometimes it’s in a moment of clarity they make their choice.

Not all with physical impairment take their own life because they can’t cope anymore… some just don’t want to have to cope anymore. Again not because they feel despair, but because the coping just doesn’t pay the right level of life dividends for them.

Should someone exist just to keep someone else happy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For my self I would presume someone is in a sever state of anxiety and depression to take there own life. I some how doubt they considered how others would view there actions. I guess in one way it could be classed as selfish but I would my self feel anguish for there distress and unhappiness driving them to such actions "

yes i agree with that, they must be in a real agonising depression, they are not thinking straight obviously, my mate was a manic depressive most of the time she was fine until one of her low days she killed herself, so so sad

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Point taken but when you see soldiers coming back from Afganistan that are possibly quadraplegic, point im making is there is always someone worse off than you, why end it! At least try and talk to someone first.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

The counter argument to people taking their lifes when their mind was in "imbalance" is that maybe they took their life because they could see with total clarity the pointlessness of life, and it's the rest of us who are deluded.

Im sorry, but thats just complete twaddle, if we saw things clearer we would all top ourselves??? hmmmm,

How rude of you to call my contribution twaddle - FAT FINGERS -. It's slightly less simple. If one has clarity AND does not like what they see they then make the choice.

Ahhhhhh, I see, its name calling day, I didn't get the memo, however I will resist, I was merely pointing out the error in suggesting the THE REST OF US ARE DELUDED BY OUR LACK OF CLEAR VISION,

Name calling day was invented very recently by a Scots person ( gender unknown ) and the first shot in their book was Twaddle.

As for people being deluded.....those were your words not mine. Please feel free to hammer holes in what you don't agree with but make the comments pertinent to honest quotes.

Pssssst Granny, the twaddle reference was to the thinking that we are deluded (not to any person) , and if you would like to pop back to earlier in the thread you might notice I didn't even quote you, it was another poster altogether that suggested we were deluded in our lack of clarity. "

Psssssst! I didn't LIKE going back to earlier in the thread...cos ... you're right. Don't show me up in public again ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

Psssssst! I didn't LIKE going back to earlier in the thread...cos ... you're right. Don't show me up in public again ... "

NOW this time I agree with you, thank you Granny, not many would have admited their mistake

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Point taken but when you see soldiers coming back from Afganistan that are possibly quadraplegic, point im making is there is always someone worse off than you, why end it! At least try and talk to someone first."

How low does a person have to get before someone CANT make the statement that someone else is worse off ? Why not end it ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

Psssssst! I didn't LIKE going back to earlier in the thread...cos ... you're right. Don't show me up in public again ...

NOW this time I agree with you, thank you Granny, not many would have admited their mistake "

And only a few would point it out in public again FAT FINGERS. x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

Psssssst! I didn't LIKE going back to earlier in the thread...cos ... you're right. Don't show me up in public again ...

NOW this time I agree with you, thank you Granny, not many would have admited their mistake

And only a few would point it out in public again FAT FINGERS. x "

You say that like its a bad thing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i tried it when i was 17, obviously i failed ...

but looking back i was stupid, i did it as i thought it was the easy option.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

for some people its the best thing they could do

cunt huh lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i tried it when i was 17, obviously i failed ...

but looking back i was stupid, i did it as i thought it was the easy option.

"

You are not that person now though xx That's the diff. xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

Psssssst! I didn't LIKE going back to earlier in the thread...cos ... you're right. Don't show me up in public again ...

NOW this time I agree with you, thank you Granny, not many would have admited their mistake

And only a few would point it out in public again FAT FINGERS. x

You say that like its a bad thing "

What size bowling ball do you take ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, Granny talks sense.

Psssssst! I didn't LIKE going back to earlier in the thread...cos ... you're right. Don't show me up in public again ...

NOW this time I agree with you, thank you Granny, not many would have admited their mistake

And only a few would point it out in public again FAT FINGERS. x

You say that like its a bad thing

What size bowling ball do you take ?"

sorry don't answer - this is the suicide thread.

Start a fat finger fred.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

What size bowling ball do you take ?"

If I ever got time to go ten pin bowling, i'd use a size 16, you know, the mens size,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think this might be depressing for some but it's something that can never be talked about enough in my opinion.

A friend's sister commited suicide the day after I met her for the first time. (yes, I know how this reads!). I didn't recognise it at the time but the vibes she gave off about something wrong were very strong- I just thought she'd maybe tried in the past. The next day she was dead. She had outwardly, everything to live for but was severey depressed, unknown to the family.

The family was torn apart by her death, compounded, it has to be said, by her religion and its views about suicide so she was buried outside Hallowed ground- giving even more distress to her family.

Reasonably shortly afterwards due to PTSD, I found myself in the same position. It was only knowing what it did to that family that stopped me doing it to mine.

All I can say is that with depression, death is a blessed release. You are in a hole deeper and darker than any you could ever imagine and the light of death is so much brighter and better than continuing on. Your family recedes in your mind but you are unable to let them know how you feel but you love them deeply but just want release.

What you'd leave behind is abject misery and if more people released the devastating effect on families suicide has, maybe they would come back from the brink, too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oooooops too late, sorry didn't read 2nd post

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Music and Suicide... Theme tune to M.A.S.H. Used to make me sad just listening..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think this might be depressing for some but it's something that can never be talked about enough in my opinion.

A friend's sister commited suicide the day after I met her for the first time. (yes, I know how this reads!). I didn't recognise it at the time but the vibes she gave off about something wrong were very strong- I just thought she'd maybe tried in the past. The next day she was dead. She had outwardly, everything to live for but was severey depressed, unknown to the family.

The family was torn apart by her death, compounded, it has to be said, by her religion and its views about suicide so she was buried outside Hallowed ground- giving even more distress to her family.

Reasonably shortly afterwards due to PTSD, I found myself in the same position. It was only knowing what it did to that family that stopped me doing it to mine.

All I can say is that with depression, death is a blessed release. You are in a hole deeper and darker than any you could ever imagine and the light of death is so much brighter and better than continuing on. Your family recedes in your mind but you are unable to let them know how you feel but you love them deeply but just want release.

What you'd leave behind is abject misery and if more people released the devastating effect on families suicide has, maybe they would come back from the brink, too.

"

Feel for you. However....people cannot just decide to NOT be depressed and live happily ever after.. They cannot say ...oooooo ya know what I'd leave misery behind ..... so i best suck it up n laugh like a banshee.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No of course they can't. I was hideously lucky the friend's experience was foremost in my mind and I could use it but it was a frightenly close thing.

My point however is that I can totally understand what's in someone's mind about to commit suicide and that it's a release, like taking morphine for an amputated leg pain. A cure, if you like, something you do to make things better, not something to be judged for.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Many thanks to you all for your contributions xx

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By *ayceeCouple
over a year ago

northampton

[Removed by poster at 15/11/09 19:26:27]

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By *ayceeCouple
over a year ago

northampton

Someone very close to me committed suicide due to schizophrenia. He thought it was what he was meant to do. He was being called. Simple. He wasn't being selfish... he was doing as he was told. He was very sick but no psychiatrist would believe that... they were the selfish ones, they took my brother from me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

My point however is that I can totally understand what's in someone's mind about to commit suicide and that it's a release, like taking morphine for an amputated leg pain. A cure, if you like, something you do to make things better, not something to be judged for."

depression is difficult to explain to someone who has never had it. but that quote is petty good as to what it feels like when the depression gets that bad. sometimes its just feels the easiest thing to do than live with it

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By *heekychezzaWoman
over a year ago

warrington

it's not selfish......it's not brave.....it's sad.........been there, tried it....but so glad it didn't work.........30-odd years on....and, despite the bad times....it really is a wonderful life......having said that..if I was diagnosed with a terminal illness......I would defintite.choose the time to exit.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

For the person that commits suicide, the problems are over, for those they leave behind, the problems are only just starting.

Someone very close to me attempted suicide, for a long while afterwards I beat myself up about it, kept telling myself I should have known, seen the signs, done something to prevent it. Even now it still bothers me, during the bad times for this person I become over-attentive to the point of smothering them. I guess I over compensate now for my own percieved failure in the past.

A friend of mine found a guy hanging in a barn whilst out walking one day. He has gone from being a young man with a bright outlook on life to someone haunted by what he found.

Neither of these people intended to cause any problems, but by their actions have affected others deeply.

In this way, I guess you might say that their actions could be viewed as selfish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having tried it myself in my twenties i can understand people who do to some degree

However i personally dont think its the answer

My cousin did it he was 19 and the reason...his girlfriend left him

Ten months later his mother who adored her only son also did it to be with him

They were very trying times and it was a really bad time

Its no the answer it only causes more problems for those that were left xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

During the last few years of my marriage I was suffering severe depression, I was the lowest I can ever imagine being, but I can honestly say I never once contemplated suicide.

To me, my life is far too precious, I value my life and am proud to say I am where I am now through my own determination and will to not waste another second of it.

I will not comment on others reasons, or state whether I think them to be selfish or brave, all I can say is I love my life and I'm glad I have it and will hang on to it with both hands for as long as I possibly can x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think that we, as a population, talked more about suicide and the effects it has on those left behind, and mental illness in general, that there would less stigma and more understanding? And hopefully fewer deaths?

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By *he Happy ManMan
over a year ago

Merseyside


"I felt the need to bring up this thread for 2 reasons first i lost 2 members of my family, my grandma and a short time later my auntie to suicide and because i am from Germany this was the week when the German national goalkeeper committed suicide.

My question is are people that do this brave or extremely selfish, as we didnt get a chance to say goodbye.

I would welcome your views, good or bad. xx"

I would say they are very brave. I forget the exact figures but something like 90% of all people think about comitting suicide at some point in their life. Something like 0.1% actually go through with it. You have to be very down and depressed to commit suicide but also very brave in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would say they are very brave. I forget the exact figures but something like 90% of all people think about comitting suicide at some point in their life. Something like 0.1% actually go through with it. You have to be very down and depressed to commit suicide but also very brave in my opinion. "

I agre, most of us have thought about it. I would say, though that whilst I wouldn't call someone who toped themselves as a coward, I don't think that it's very often brave. Captain Oats was brave walking into the snow to extend his colleagues' life was brave, but does that mean kamikaze pilots were?

By ending ones life prematurely, we are usualy running away from something (money problems for example). It is easier to run than face the consequences, in that case. It is diferent if one has a chronic condition which severely affects your quality of life, but even there, if that is the sensible decision, are the people who carry on foolhardy?

I would submit that the terms 'brave' and 'cowardly' don't realy fit the majority of suicides, as those terms rely on the judgement of a sound mind, by definition someone with a mental health issue (as the majority of suiciders have) can't make that judgement as their minds aren't sound.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Couldnt sleep so come back on.

Anyways, as someone who has in the past tried to commit suicide.

I feel that No ammount of talking would have helped.

Your in a dark dark place that no one else can ever penetrate.

You figure that whatever is causing the problem will go away if your not around anymore.

Feeling less of a burden to those you leave behind.

You dont think about the hurt your gonna cause, the pain to those left behind because your not thinking rationally.

Yet You think you are.

Its a strange place to be in.

And one i hope i never return too.

I was lucky, i survived

SOme are not so lucky. and to the families left behind it must be awful.

My thoughts are with those who have gone through such a traumatic time.

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By *ebzStarWoman
over a year ago

Notting

I feel for anyone who even contemplates doing this.

To be in a position that you feel there is no way out and whatever is causing these ill feelings become all encompasing.

You do not consider how others will feel about it- because they dont even come into the equation.

The suffication of feelings that make you feel like that take up all of your thought space, so no "rational" thoughts can come in and balance it out.

All that matters is the hurt/pain/pointlessness of life that you feel. ITs a shite place to be, and if it gives that person peace - who is to say it was wrong. Some suffers suffer for years and years before they make that leap....When my friend found her brother hanging when she got home, she wasnt angry with him for doing it because she knew how long he had been suffering and hoped that he was now in peace.

Debz x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have been in a dark place a few times in my life. Thought about chucking it all in and waving goodbye to the world.

When it came to the crunch sat with my bottles of pills I couldn't go through with it because I felt it would just create more problems and blight more lives than my own.

I was bought up in a family and social environment where we did not discuss our problems and where depression was not a word in our dictionary. You just knuckled down and got on with things. I still do not feel comfortable discussing my state of mind or feelings with others.

People who do make the choice to end their lives should not be judged as good, bad, selfish etc. They are people who make a choice that seems best to them at that time, and in their circumstances.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was a smariton for a time and may go back too this ......... We are told if a person say thay are going to kill them selfs dont allways think its just a cry for help as alot really do. And alot of its in the mind all in the head and thay go over things in there heads time and time again and it takes over every part of them just gets out of control ,, and some think only way out is going to sleep ,,,,,,, as thay know when thay are a sleep its not there. If thay only could sit down or phone chat too some one get it out in the open ,,,,, as alot could learn to understand why thay feel like this. I love life its worth living no matter what the resons can be ..... Nothing and no ones is worth taking your life for , Getting control of your mind and body is only way out. Often there familys and people around have not a clue Familys and friends can get so hurt feeling thay could have helped if thay only new how bad things was but offen thay feel so alone in this... and see death as only way out ,,,,, i know its deep but we need to look after each other in this world ,, jo xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If thay only could sit down or phone chat too some one get it out in the open ,,,,, as alot could learn to understand why thay feel like this"

I SO agree with you on this. Talking about this subject is really difficut for me but if it can either bring more understanding or help someone feeling suicidal now or in the future, I'll talk all day. We all should.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All i know its getting it out in the open what the resons are chating telling feeling even the hurt pain ........ letting the words out of your mouth hering them ........ and not keeping them locked up in the head helps...The mind can play lots of strange games and its being in control ... not easy for some too chat about things as it makes you feel and hurt ,,, but end of the day its getting it out in the open.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""If thay only could sit down or phone chat too some one get it out in the open ,,,,, as alot could learn to understand why thay feel like this"

I SO agree with you on this. Talking about this subject is really difficut for me but if it can either bring more understanding or help someone feeling suicidal now or in the future, I'll talk all day. We all should."

As an ex Samaritan it saddens me to feel we are not doing our job sufficiently enough, that people feel they have no-one to talk to ... someone is there 24/7 and I promise no-one will judge and there is no limit on the time a call will take ... I hope people are aware we are still out there. Putting my MH Nurses head on for a moment ... it is in my experience the hoplessness that tips a person over the edge, depression, though a big contributor is not in itself a cause ... but mix in the hoplessness and it becomes so .... If you know someone feeling suicidal then talk to them about it, dont shy away fearing you will make them worse ... you can't! But letting them discuss their whys and even how far they have planned to go, might make them stop and think ... and I don't consider it a selfish act ... in fact I know of a few people who have done so in the misguided thought they are doing the best thing for the people around them ... very sad

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Thanks again for all your comments, one thing that did sadden me as hubby is an ex serviceman, i was staggered to find that statistically if you have been in the Forces you are more likely to commit suicide, very sad indeed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really don't have a clue what to say regarding suicide, it has played quite a part in my life over the years, I have lost a few friends due to suicide and it's not easy news to take in at the time, and doesn't get much easier with time.

The answers will never truly be there, why, what could have been done to stop it, etc etc, just have to try to forget it happened and not focus on what we as an individual could have done to stop it, it's easier saying that than doing so I can tell you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Once a person has decided that the only way that they can end their suffering is by taking their own life, there is little that can be done

Sometimes a persons pain can be so great that their love for others simply doesn't register. I doubt that any of us could ever fully empathise with those that have fallen so deeply into the shadows that the darkness they are experiencing saturates them mentally, physically and spiritually, their very essence has become soaked with despair so debilitating life itself no longer has purpose.

For those dealing with such a situation offering comfort, reassurance and hope will find that their loving actions of protection can only go so far, and last so long - eventually we are all left alone.

Protecting those that are embraced with self-destructive intentions merely delays the heart breaking inevitable, a precious life ends.

I sat with a very dear friend of mine as his life ebbed away, he had cancer, died aged 30. Watching him lay helpless dying will stay with me forever, was I angry at him for dying, no. I was angry at the world for letting him die yet the world was blameless, in the same way those that take their own lives are without blame, it's all pain that the body and soul can no longer endure.

I will never forget my friend especially the way that he died, have I stopped being angry at the world, not on your life - it has caused me more pain than many here would care to experience or wish to hear of. Yet I know for a fact some have suffered far more than me.

I was once told, "your suffering is yours whether you see it as more or less than mine, it doesn't lessen my pain, all pain is unique to each individual as is its affects" - the most polite way I have ever been told to shut up lol

Now I have one more tin of Stella that is winking at me, it should make me unpleasantly d*unk - how can you be unpleasantly d*unk ? ask a glass of water.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i have lost 8 friends to suicide all by hanging all male, i would say it is a brave thing to do because ultimatly it is their own decision and also at the same time it is very selfish, it takes alot of gutts to do something like that."

How does that happen? I don't know anyone who has committed suicide.

Am I fortunate? Is there an 'unlucky' gene somewhere that I haven't been given?

The mere fact that someone has ended their own life is explanatory enough to know that there was something seriously wrong with their thought processes and thus cannot be judged for their actions, as they weren't responsible for them, and, as in nearly every criminal case involving the perp being mentally ill - they are deemed to be not responsible for their actions, but treatable if it becomes known.

And therein lies the dilemma: someone showing no outward signs of wanting to end it all is very difficult to help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who are we to judge anyone xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Who are we to judge anyone xx"
We cant .. We can only be there for them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

However anyone dies is a great loss and pain to all who are left behind, my partner of only seven years was killed in a motorbike accident leaving myself and his son of five years old.

Six years later it's still as painful, we never said goodbye.

There was a whole chain of events led up to him being alone that day, hence the reason he went out on his bike.

It was my mothers birthday and I and our son went to her leaving him alone to finish some decorating.

My mother blamed herself for wanting us to visit, my little boy blamed himself for not wanting to stay painting with daddy, I blamed myself for not insisting he came with us, even my neighbour blamed himself for not keeping my partner chatting outside the gate for a few minutes longer.

All of us feel guilt and sorrow..... it makes no difference how the loved one dies... they die.... the brave ones are those who are bereft and have to live on through the pain.

Please lift your head, let go of any guilt and allow the love you had for them back into your heart. One day at a time is the only way, and look forward not back unless it's with love as you reminisce.

My heartfelt condolences to you and all who have lost their loved ones.

Laine xxxxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/11/09 11:52:10]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

3 weeks ago i was at a swingers clubs chams sitting out side with people chating ,,,,, 2 couples one man he worked on the tube in london ,,,,, he was saying the high light of his week was people killing themselfs on the line he said work would stop and thay had a rest as the polise had a go at getting bodys parts and finding who it was,,,,,, i sat thare i could feel myself getting mad thinking thay was someones child ,,,,,,a person ,,,,, I had know only in the last 4 months two young men in there 20s killing themselfs after splitting up and there girl-friends give them hell made them feel worth nothing and stoped them seeing there children , two young men killed them selfes on line of the tube i sat there feeling like crying ,,,,, how could thay make fun of this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"However anyone dies is a great loss and pain to all who are left behind, my partner of only seven years was killed in a motorbike accident leaving myself and his son of five years old.

Six years later it's still as painful, we never said goodbye.

There was a whole chain of events led up to him being alone that day, hence the reason he went out on his bike.

It was my mothers birthday and I and our son went to her leaving him alone to finish some decorating.

My mother blamed herself for wanting us to visit, my little boy blamed himself for not wanting to stay painting with daddy, I blamed myself for not insisting he came with us, even my neighbour blamed himself for not keeping my partner chatting outside the gate for a few minutes longer.

All of us feel guilt and sorrow..... it makes no difference how the loved one dies... they die.... the brave ones are those who are bereft and have to live on through the pain.

Please lift your head, let go of any guilt and allow the love you had for them back into your heart. One day at a time is the only way, and look forward not back unless it's with love as you reminisce.

My heartfelt condolences to you and all who have lost their loved ones.

Laine xxxxx "

Well put Laine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have had a few people suffer the after effects of suicide and most recently on saturday.

Having seen the destruction and hurt it does to people left behind, leaving questions such as why, and guilt that they didnt see a problem, where unable to help or even question their care for these people i have to say although the initial taking of ones own life is a brave momentary decision, the inevitable out come from it is a selfish one.

"

i agree with your points, yes its brave but also selfish.

i lost my mum this way over 14 years ago now and so did my 5yr old brother and 10yr old sister.

people commit suicide and its usually down to not being able to cope with life and events in their lives,not being able to find another way out.

all your problems just seem so big you cant deal with life anymore.

in life when things get tough, there will always be someone worse off than you.

i always look at it that... the tough times are what have made me who i am and thats a fighter and survivor and stronger person.

and that icould never do it cos wouldnt want to hurt my family or leave them with all the unanswered questions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" 3 weeks ago i was at a swingers clubs chams sitting out side with people chating ,,,,, 2 couples one man he worked on the tube in london ,,,,, he was saying the high light of his week was people killing themselfs on the line he said work would stop and thay had a rest as the polise had a go at getting bodys parts and finding who it was,,,,,, i sat thare i could feel myself getting mad thinking thay was someones child ,,,,,,a person ,,,,, I had know only in the last 4 months two young men in there 20s killing themselfs after splitting up and there girl-friends give them hell made them feel worth nothing and stoped them seeing there children , two young men killed them selfes on line of the tube i sat there feeling like crying ,,,,, how could thay make fun of this."

It's sad, but people make fun of such things to deal with it, if he let it bother him he may find it hard to work, especially when passing certain spots where this happened.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I haven't had anybody even semi-close to me commit suicide, so I can't really speak about it with any great authority or from any experience.

However, 2 words have kept cropping up here, "brave" and "selfish". From the little I know about it, it strikes me that the person concerned must be very brave to actually go through with it, although I suspect that the lack of rational thought means that they don't see it like that.

When anybody dies, they are then free from all pain and distress, but it's those who are left who then suffer 'pain' and distress. A suicide death is no different in that respect except that there is the additional angle that death was deliberate.

But was the person concerned selfish? Well if they were no longer able to think rationally then it seems to me to be rather unfair to label them as such.

Some people who've commented here have said that they themselves have been near the 'edge' at some time in the past, and it strikes me that they are also extremely brave to have been able firstly to turn back, and then to get their lives back into some semblance of order. Sadly, I suspect that whatever drove them so close in the first place, has left them with issues that may never go away totally, so my sincere best wishes to them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" 3 weeks ago i was at a swingers clubs chams sitting out side with people chating ,,,,, 2 couples one man he worked on the tube in london ,,,,, he was saying the high light of his week was people killing themselfs on the line he said work would stop and thay had a rest as the polise had a go at getting bodys parts and finding who it was,,,,,, i sat thare i could feel myself getting mad thinking thay was someones child ,,,,,,a person ,,,,, I had know only in the last 4 months two young men in there 20s killing themselfs after splitting up and there girl-friends give them hell made them feel worth nothing and stoped them seeing there children , two young men killed them selfes on line of the tube i sat there feeling like crying ,,,,, how could thay make fun of this.

It's sad, but people make fun of such things to deal with it, if he let it bother him he may find it hard to work, especially when passing certain spots where this happened.

"

I agree Shag. Being from a forces background, I found they too have a 'gallows humour' it's a coping mechanism. As you say it allows them to carry on doing what they do day in day out. However it's not something that should be discussed in such a flippant manner to cause offence with people outside their work environment.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester


" 3 weeks ago i was at a swingers clubs chams sitting out side with people chating ,,,,, 2 couples one man he worked on the tube in london ,,,,, he was saying the high light of his week was people killing themselfs on the line he said work would stop and thay had a rest as the polise had a go at getting bodys parts and finding who it was,,,,,, i sat thare i could feel myself getting mad thinking thay was someones child ,,,,,,a person ,,,,, I had know only in the last 4 months two young men in there 20s killing themselfs after splitting up and there girl-friends give them hell made them feel worth nothing and stoped them seeing there children , two young men killed them selfes on line of the tube i sat there feeling like crying ,,,,, how could thay make fun of this."

Have you ever heard the saying "if I didn't laugh I'd cry" ?

If he'd have sat there and told you of the horrific nightmares he's had due to witnessing such events, how he sees the body disappear under the front of the engine time and time again… would you feel sorry for him having to go through such a thing?

May be he doesn’t want to feel sorry for himself or have others feel sorry for him. May be he just wants to get on with his life.

People learn to deal with shit in their own way... that's his way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

for someone to reach such a low i dont think its selfish........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" 3 weeks ago i was at a swingers clubs chams sitting out side with people chating ,,,,, 2 couples one man he worked on the tube in london ,,,,, he was saying the high light of his week was people killing themselfs on the line he said work would stop and thay had a rest as the polise had a go at getting bodys parts and finding who it was,,,,,, i sat thare i could feel myself getting mad thinking thay was someones child ,,,,,,a person ,,,,, I had know only in the last 4 months two young men in there 20s killing themselfs after splitting up and there girl-friends give them hell made them feel worth nothing and stoped them seeing there children , two young men killed them selfes on line of the tube i sat there feeling like crying ,,,,, how could thay make fun of this.

It's sad, but people make fun of such things to deal with it, if he let it bother him he may find it hard to work, especially when passing certain spots where this happened.

I agree Shag. Being from a forces background, I found they too have a 'gallows humour' it's a coping mechanism. As you say it allows them to carry on doing what they do day in day out. However it's not something that should be discussed in such a flippant manner to cause offence with people outside their work environment."

This is very true, but as we all know, some people have little or no tact, and/or thought or others.

some have no control of their tongues, lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" 3 weeks ago i was at a swingers clubs chams sitting out side with people chating ,,,,, 2 couples one man he worked on the tube in london ,,,,, he was saying the high light of his week was people killing themselfs on the line he said work would stop and thay had a rest as the polise had a go at getting bodys parts and finding who it was,,,,,, i sat thare i could feel myself getting mad thinking thay was someones child ,,,,,,a person ,,,,, I had know only in the last 4 months two young men in there 20s killing themselfs after splitting up and there girl-friends give them hell made them feel worth nothing and stoped them seeing there children , two young men killed them selfes on line of the tube i sat there feeling like crying ,,,,, how could thay make fun of this.

It's sad, but people make fun of such things to deal with it, if he let it bother him he may find it hard to work, especially when passing certain spots where this happened.

I agree Shag. Being from a forces background, I found they too have a 'gallows humour' it's a coping mechanism. As you say it allows them to carry on doing what they do day in day out. However it's not something that should be discussed in such a flippant manner to cause offence with people outside their work environment.

This is very true, but as we all know, some people have little or no tact, and/or thought or others.

some have no control of their tongues, lol."

actually i think that the person who said that at the club was actually talking flippantly. i actually see train drivers who come to where i work to seek therapy after people have thrown themselves under the train. so in that particular situation the person who kills themselves leave others traumatic not just their family members

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

shag he said thay had two or 3 a week going this ....... just not the thing you chat about at a swinging club put me right off the evening .... maybe its the way he deal with it ,,,, but not in front of me and others ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The Grace of God ? Are you saying he made them do it ? Let them do it ?

Why does everyone assume that suicide cases were unable to 'see' so killed themselves?

Maybe their thinking was so crystal that they saw more and further than those who stick around. "

I was diagnosed with cancer two years after the death of my partner. I put my will in order, agreed with my eldest she would be her young brothers legal guardian, and prepared to die.

I wanted to just lie down and be with my partner, so I took it as a sign from whatever God there is that it was my permission to refuse treatment and let the fates decide.

That to me was crystal clear.

Obviously it was the wrong decision for my family and they and the doctor talked me round. I still say if it wasn't for them being in my life I WOULD have elected death.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" shag he said thay had two or 3 a week going this ....... just not the thing you chat about at a swinging club put me right off the evening .... maybe its the way he deal with it ,,,, but not in front of me and others ...."

I agree, not making excuses for his lack of thought for others, or lack of knowledge on how to mix publicly, just passing comment that people in certain industries can and often do develop a twisted sense of humour to cope.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" shag he said thay had two or 3 a week going this ....... just not the thing you chat about at a swinging club put me right off the evening .... maybe its the way he deal with it ,,,, but not in front of me and others ....

I agree, not making excuses for his lack of thought for others, or lack of knowledge on how to mix publicly, just passing comment that people in certain industries can and often do develop a twisted sense of humour to cope."

well people who face death, whether it be themselves or the likes of the train drivers develop an macarb sense of humour to cope with it.

I recall a situation with my sister only 3 weeks before she died. when i asked her was there any questions that she would be asking of her oncologist on her next visit, her husband chirped up with "yes i want to know when we can next have sex" to which my sister replied "for gods sake it would be like necrophilia". only a person in that situation could come out with such a quip. she retained her sense of humour right till the end. so perhaps humour is a defense mechanisim that people use

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" shag he said thay had two or 3 a week going this ....... just not the thing you chat about at a swinging club put me right off the evening .... maybe its the way he deal with it ,,,, but not in front of me and others ....

I agree, not making excuses for his lack of thought for others, or lack of knowledge on how to mix publicly, just passing comment that people in certain industries can and often do develop a twisted sense of humour to cope.

well people who face death, whether it be themselves or the likes of the train drivers develop an macarb sense of humour to cope with it.

I recall a situation with my sister only 3 weeks before she died. when i asked her was there any questions that she would be asking of her oncologist on her next visit, her husband chirped up with "yes i want to know when we can next have sex" to which my sister replied "for gods sake it would be like necrophilia". only a person in that situation could come out with such a quip. she retained her sense of humour right till the end. so perhaps humour is a defense mechanisim that people use"

I do believe so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oh feck me and shagalooney having quiet sensible moments, whats the world coming to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have been told that train drivers can find the shock of dealing with their personal feelings after a suicide incident, actually leads to them bringing their life to an end, or dying from the shock of being involved - I can understand the dark humour that evolves as a coping system as I have experienced it.

On a lighter note:

My brother lost a leg due to an accident at work - 18teen, shunter's yard, Ripple lane, Dagenham. he was coupling carriages together and knocked himself out, fortunately it was a leg left across the track. The shock of finding him unconscious and legless by the driver after he realised he was a carriage or two short of a full load - gave him a heart attack. (True)

The shock of hearing about my big bro wasn't good and I found it impossible for a week or two to visit him at hospital. When I eventually did and sat silently beside my brother, he immediately hit me square on the head with his stump - that broke the ice. He then asked a nurse what had happened to his leg, she replied reluctantly that it would have been burnt and asked why did he want to know - he wanted to be able to tell friends that he had one foot in the grave.

He spent sometime forgetting that he had lost a leg, and mornings always started with a bump as he jumped out of bed - being young at the time I remember getting above my station with him, his crutch whistling through the air smashing into my noggin soon ended that.

oops school run time so can't finish, what a relief lol

We all use humour with stressful situations, but I do agree there is a time and place.

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