FabSwingers.com forum: Vegans and b12 deficiency.

By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

I am not a vegan, but I heard an interesting thing about it and that is how important vitamin b12 is and how that vegans could be deficient init. I know that there are different kinds of vegans, from flexigan to more strickt ones, they mentioned that especially 2 groups was at the risk zone.

Long term vegans who avoid common fortified foods, such as raw food vegans or macrobiotic vegans and breastfed infants of vegan mothers whose own intake of B12 is low.

Does that mean that certain groups of vegans cant use supplements?

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

B12 supplements are vegan

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"B12 supplements are vegan"

Actually no not all of them are and even the vegan society States very clearly the only reliable source of vitamin B12 is some Cereals and some soy products.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

People fall for the logical fallacy that being a vegan/vegetarian is automatically healthier than not being one

When in reality, especially as a vegan, you have to work extremely hard to make sure your dietary requirements are met.

This becomes much harder too for women and people that are inactive due to a much lower TDEE placing a higher emphasis on making every calorie count

I’d hope vegans are aware of this and choose to supplement. I’ve seen a few stories of parents accidentally killing their children by forcing an incomplete vegan diet on them.

I think it’s just people being unaware, which seems to be common place is all areas of diet these days. Too much misinformation being spread around on social media, along with old tales that won’t die.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

Did you hear this interesting thing in a fun video from coach Greg?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Non Vegans shouldn't assume that they get sufficiency of anything either.

People who understand nutrition know what to eat and what constitutes a healthy diet.

It doesn't follow that simply because people eat meat - they get the necessary requirements to thrive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seems to be a daily topic on here started by non vegans showing faux concern about the vegan diet.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

Marmite on toast, sorted

I’m not a vegan btw

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Seems to be a daily topic on here started by non vegans showing faux concern about the vegan diet."

It's their down time from caring so hard about day people's health

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Even non-vegans eat fortified food (ie meat) - you either take a supplement, or get it directly from fortified food -

I think of all the groups, vegans are probably the most aware of the need to look after their health

The majority of Western sphere should also be taking vit D

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Been veggie over 30 years entirely possible to be an unhealthy as well as healthy veggie or vegan, as well as omnivore! I know omnivores with VERY limited diets.

People need to educate themselves and eat a varied and balanced diet. I have weight issues but it’s complicated, I try and eat a good varied diet and ensure I include natural sources for nutrients hard to obtain in a veggie diet plus take advised supplements. It’s not easy.

With the nights starting to draw in which affects me always has, I’ve also bumped up nutritional intake in certain areas.

It’s on everyone to ensure they get the right nutrition, though honestly my concern at this point isn’t people not knowing it’s people can’t afford to eat well.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Seems to be a daily topic on here started by non vegans showing faux concern about the vegan diet.

It's their down time from caring so hard about day people's health

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Even non-vegans eat fortified food (ie meat) - you either take a supplement, or get it directly from fortified food -

I think of all the groups, vegans are probably the most aware of the need to look after their health

The majority of Western sphere should also be taking vit D "

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I note that the prevailing cultural tone is to "take personal responsibility."

I think omnivores and people who don't consider themselves fat should take personal responsibility for their own health, rather than concern trolling people different to them.

(This comment is about these types of discussions in general and is not specifically aimed at people in this thread)

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I note that the prevailing cultural tone is to "take personal responsibility."

I think omnivores and people who don't consider themselves fat should take personal responsibility for their own health, rather than concern trolling people different to them.

(This comment is about these types of discussions in general and is not specifically aimed at people in this thread)"

Being an omnivore isn't enough.

Especially if you are the type of omnivore that doesn't like fruit or cabbage and only eat the type of chicken that's injected with chemical solutions to make it 'juicier'.

Everyone needs to check out their personal intake to see in what way it's lacking and it will be lacking.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I note that the prevailing cultural tone is to "take personal responsibility."

I think omnivores and people who don't consider themselves fat should take personal responsibility for their own health, rather than concern trolling people different to them.

(This comment is about these types of discussions in general and is not specifically aimed at people in this thread)

Being an omnivore isn't enough.

Especially if you are the type of omnivore that doesn't like fruit or cabbage and only eat the type of chicken that's injected with chemical solutions to make it 'juicier'.

Everyone needs to check out their personal intake to see in what way it's lacking and it will be lacking. "

Yes, I know.

But in an age of "don't tell me what to do, mind your own business", people who aren't vegans should maybe focus on their own diet and stop concern trolling vegans.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There will always be stupid people that fall into all categories of life. Stupid people, will do the stupids.

So yeah, I'm not surprised by any of it.

What's more interesting is everyone defining and defending their carefully chosen position with such zest and zeal. Life's a bit too short for all of that nonsense.

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"People fall for the logical fallacy that being a vegan/vegetarian is automatically healthier than not being one

When in reality, especially as a vegan, you have to work extremely hard to make sure your dietary requirements are met.

This becomes much harder too for women and people that are inactive due to a much lower TDEE placing a higher emphasis on making every calorie count

I’d hope vegans are aware of this and choose to supplement. I’ve seen a few stories of parents accidentally killing their children by forcing an incomplete vegan diet on them.

"
Yes, it does become hard as well to meet all the required nutrient intake as the time goes.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I note that the prevailing cultural tone is to "take personal responsibility."

I think omnivores and people who don't consider themselves fat should take personal responsibility for their own health, rather than concern trolling people different to them.

(This comment is about these types of discussions in general and is not specifically aimed at people in this thread)

Being an omnivore isn't enough.

Especially if you are the type of omnivore that doesn't like fruit or cabbage and only eat the type of chicken that's injected with chemical solutions to make it 'juicier'.

Everyone needs to check out their personal intake to see in what way it's lacking and it will be lacking.

Yes, I know.

But in an age of "don't tell me what to do, mind your own business", people who aren't vegans should maybe focus on their own diet and stop concern trolling vegans."

I know you know. I was agreeing. Maybe I should have said ....... God you are right and what is morrrrrrrrrrreeee....

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"There will always be stupid people that fall into all categories of life. Stupid people, will do the stupids.

So yeah, I'm not surprised by any of it.

What's more interesting is everyone defining and defending their carefully chosen position with such zest and zeal. Life's a bit too short for all of that nonsense."

I do love irony.

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By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

Vitamin B12 is important. Deficiency can lead to anemia among other symptoms.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I note that the prevailing cultural tone is to "take personal responsibility."

I think omnivores and people who don't consider themselves fat should take personal responsibility for their own health, rather than concern trolling people different to them.

(This comment is about these types of discussions in general and is not specifically aimed at people in this thread)

Being an omnivore isn't enough.

Especially if you are the type of omnivore that doesn't like fruit or cabbage and only eat the type of chicken that's injected with chemical solutions to make it 'juicier'.

Everyone needs to check out their personal intake to see in what way it's lacking and it will be lacking.

Yes, I know.

But in an age of "don't tell me what to do, mind your own business", people who aren't vegans should maybe focus on their own diet and stop concern trolling vegans.

I know you know. I was agreeing. Maybe I should have said ....... God you are right and what is morrrrrrrrrrreeee...."

Apologies

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"Did you hear this interesting thing in a fun video from coach Greg?"
No, it wasnt that this time.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Did you hear this interesting thing in a fun video from coach Greg?No, it wasnt that this time."

Was it at your church ? Are they thinking of going vegan ?

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

I checked the recommended intake of vitamin b12 and it is 6 micrograms per day.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

I have a B12 injection every 3 months

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I take a multivitamin with b12 to be safe but lots of things are fortified with it now anyway.

As somebody already mentioned meat is fortified with it too - both as injections and via cows eating manure. Yum

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

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By *irginLad32Man
over a year ago

Catford

Lack of red meat, and ingestion of chemical produced fake so called meats would do that yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lack of red meat, and ingestion of chemical produced fake so called meats would do that yes. "

No.. An non injestion of appropriate fortified food would do that

Fixed it for you

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Lack of red meat, and ingestion of chemical produced fake so called meats would do that yes.

No.. An non injestion of appropriate fortified food would do that

Fixed it for you"

Quite. I don't see why so many people need to beat up on vegetarians and vegans

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lack of red meat, and ingestion of chemical produced fake so called meats would do that yes.

No.. An non injestion of appropriate fortified food would do that

Fixed it for you

Quite. I don't see why so many people need to beat up on vegetarians and vegans "

Because it's easy, they are weak willed and limp wristed

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Lack of red meat, and ingestion of chemical produced fake so called meats would do that yes.

No.. An non injestion of appropriate fortified food would do that

Fixed it for you

Quite. I don't see why so many people need to beat up on vegetarians and vegans

Because it's easy, they are weak willed and limp wristed

Charming.

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By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

Eat things that contain nutrition. Simple.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lack of red meat, and ingestion of chemical produced fake so called meats would do that yes.

No.. An non injestion of appropriate fortified food would do that

Fixed it for you

Quite. I don't see why so many people need to beat up on vegetarians and vegans

Because it's easy, they are weak willed and limp wristed

Charming."

I've been a vegetarian since I was 4, relax dear it's just a bit of fun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lack of red meat, and ingestion of chemical produced fake so called meats would do that yes.

No.. An non injestion of appropriate fortified food would do that

Fixed it for you

Quite. I don't see why so many people need to beat up on vegetarians and vegans "

Slow news day

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eat things that contain nutrition. Simple."

Or in this case things that contain relevant bacteria.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eat things that contain nutrition. Simple.

Or in this case things that contain relevant bacteria."

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Lack of red meat, and ingestion of chemical produced fake so called meats would do that yes.

No.. An non injestion of appropriate fortified food would do that

Fixed it for you

Quite. I don't see why so many people need to beat up on vegetarians and vegans "

It's funny because it's nearly always the people who haven't eaten a vegetable in 20 years that are concerned for my nutrition

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Lack of red meat, and ingestion of chemical produced fake so called meats would do that yes.

No.. An non injestion of appropriate fortified food would do that

Fixed it for you

Quite. I don't see why so many people need to beat up on vegetarians and vegans

It's funny because it's nearly always the people who haven't eaten a vegetable in 20 years that are concerned for my nutrition

. "

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

"Did you hear this interesting thing in a fun video from coach Greg?No, it wasnt that this time."

Ahh

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"Did you hear this interesting thing in a fun video from coach Greg?No, it wasnt that this time.

Ahh

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By *den-Valley-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Cumbria

I hope people enjoy their vegan life I do not care if they are deficient in vitamins or living a healthy life as long as they do not expect me to give up what I enjoy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I hope people enjoy their vegan life I do not care if they are deficient in vitamins or living a healthy life as long as they do not expect me to give up what I enjoy.

Nice sentiment. Thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lack of red meat, and ingestion of chemical produced fake so called meats would do that yes.

No.. An non injestion of appropriate fortified food would do that

Fixed it for you

Quite. I don't see why so many people need to beat up on vegetarians and vegans "

Tbf, I've never been accosted in the high street by a group of omnivores handing out leaflets trying to persuade me to eat meat. I'd suggest that maybe vegans get the stick they do in response to the behavoir of some very outspoken individuals who feel the need to proselytise.

Add in a dose of guilt that many meat eaters will feel as they're constantly told how their food choice is contributing to global warming plus a level of self denial around animal welfare standards and for many, the instinctive reason is to attack.

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"I checked the recommended intake of vitamin b12 and it is 6 micrograms per day."
Another interesting thing with this was that 90% of people following these diets have a deficiency ( 2 , 3 ), this is because b12 is only found naturally in animal foods, that means its about 3 micrograms deficiency.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

eat marmite ... it's that simple

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why are so many non-vegans concerned about us vegans?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"eat marmite ... it's that simple"

I do this

Although yesterday I bought Vegemite instead because it was on offer... but it doesn't have B12

It doesn't taste as good either.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"Why are so many non-vegans concerned about us vegans?

Some people find general health and fitness and diet interesting and like to discuss all aspects of it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why are so many non-vegans concerned about us vegans?

Some people find general health and fitness and diet interesting and like to discuss all aspects of it "

Seems targeted rather than "all aspects"

And I can understand a vegan starting the thread.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"Why are so many non-vegans concerned about us vegans?

Some people find general health and fitness and diet interesting and like to discuss all aspects of it

Seems targeted rather than "all aspects"

And I can understand a vegan starting the thread.

This thread is targeted, but it’s still a discussion, dunno why vegans feel attacked by it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I note that the prevailing cultural tone is to "take personal responsibility."

I think omnivores and people who don't consider themselves fat should take personal responsibility for their own health, rather than concern trolling people different to them.

(This comment is about these types of discussions in general and is not specifically aimed at people in this thread)

Being an omnivore isn't enough.

Especially if you are the type of omnivore that doesn't like fruit or cabbage and only eat the type of chicken that's injected with chemical solutions to make it 'juicier'.

Everyone needs to check out their personal intake to see in what way it's lacking and it will be lacking.

Yes, I know.

But in an age of "don't tell me what to do, mind your own business", people who aren't vegans should maybe focus on their own diet and stop concern trolling vegans."

I agree but I also think vegans should stop preaching about how wonderful they are and how they are saving the planet by their plant based diet. Personally I couldn't give a monkeys about what others eat or dont eat. I have enough issues about what I eat to try and maintain my own health.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's just people being people. Wankers on both sides and plenty who are not.

Pretty much nobody I know is vegan but loads of people I chat with are interested in the diet and nutrition stuff plus potential health impacts etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why are so many non-vegans concerned about us vegans?

Some people find general health and fitness and diet interesting and like to discuss all aspects of it

Seems targeted rather than "all aspects"

And I can understand a vegan starting the thread.

This thread is targeted, but it’s still a discussion, dunno why vegans feel attacked by it "

Not feeling attacked just curious why of all the food preferences this one gets threads by people who don't follow it claiming "concern".

It's a pickle!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I agree but I also think vegans should stop preaching about how wonderful they are and how they are saving the planet by their plant based diet. Personally I couldn't give a monkeys about what others eat or dont eat. I have enough issues about what I eat to try and maintain my own health."

Is it okay for non vegans to preach about 'saving the planet'?

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"Why are so many non-vegans concerned about us vegans?

Some people find general health and fitness and diet interesting and like to discuss all aspects of it

Seems targeted rather than "all aspects"

And I can understand a vegan starting the thread.

This thread is targeted, but it’s still a discussion, dunno why vegans feel attacked by it

Not feeling attacked just curious why of all the food preferences this one gets threads by people who don't follow it claiming "concern".

It's a pickle!

It’s not a pickle to me, just people interested in a subject discussing it. So sorry but I don’t see your side of it but however you wanna view it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why are so many non-vegans concerned about us vegans?

Some people find general health and fitness and diet interesting and like to discuss all aspects of it

Seems targeted rather than "all aspects"

And I can understand a vegan starting the thread.

This thread is targeted, but it’s still a discussion, dunno why vegans feel attacked by it

Not feeling attacked just curious why of all the food preferences this one gets threads by people who don't follow it claiming "concern".

It's a pickle!

It’s not a pickle to me, just people interested in a subject discussing it. So sorry but I don’t see your side of it but however you wanna view it

Surely that's exactly what I'm doing... Interested in a subject and I'm discussing it, just maybe from a different standpoint.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"Why are so many non-vegans concerned about us vegans?

Some people find general health and fitness and diet interesting and like to discuss all aspects of it

Seems targeted rather than "all aspects"

And I can understand a vegan starting the thread.

This thread is targeted, but it’s still a discussion, dunno why vegans feel attacked by it

Not feeling attacked just curious why of all the food preferences this one gets threads by people who don't follow it claiming "concern".

It's a pickle!

It’s not a pickle to me, just people interested in a subject discussing it. So sorry but I don’t see your side of it but however you wanna view it

Surely that's exactly what I'm doing... Interested in a subject and I'm discussing it, just maybe from a different standpoint. "

I gues, I felt your discussing why we are discussing it, not the original topic, but it’s a public forum so everyone’s entitled

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it okay for non vegans to preach about 'saving the planet'?"

I have never heard anyone on either side say this

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

"eat marmite ... it's that simple

I do this

Although yesterday I bought Vegemite instead because it was on offer... but it doesn't have B12

It doesn't taste as good either."

vegemite

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By *ansexualPandaMan
over a year ago

Near You

Most people would benefit from B12 and Vitamin D supplements in the UK. Our food is "too clean" (most of our vitamin B12 used to come more from soil left on vegetables) and we don't get enough sun, primarily since most of us work indoors even in the summer.

It's also false that a paleo-diet would mostly consist of meat. Ancient humans were more gatherers and scavengers than hunters. Meat made up a very small amount of the diet throughout most of human history, even when agriculture became widespread. Modern meat consumption per person is way more than it's ever been in human history.

Dairy milk is also a very new addition to our diet. Infants used to suckle from their mums and females in a group, even up to relatively recent times. Hence why a "wet nurse" was a thing. Now, hands up if you still have a titty-sucking fetish ... bitty!

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

"Most people would benefit from B12 and Vitamin D supplements in the UK. Our food is "too clean" (most of our vitamin B12 used to come more from soil left on vegetables) and we don't get enough sun, primarily since most of us work indoors even in the summer."

it's actually from soil that contains feces to be perfectly precise. i'd rather wash traces of excrement off my food, peel it and eat marmite.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it okay for non vegans to preach about 'saving the planet'?"
Absolutely, my point exactly. Most of the vegans I've met(and yes due to certain issues I have met a large proportion) in the last couple of years proselytize constantly about how they are saving the planet and telling the rest of us how they are the only ones who care about the planets future which is total BS a lot of us really care about the planet without being vegan Years ago it was a personal choice and vegans were just vegetarians who chose not to only not eat meat but to not 'exploit' animals in any way. Fantastic no problem. I admired their belief in what they saw as unfair in fact I still do. I admire vegetarians for the same thing. What I dont admire is nowadays their habit of telling me I dont care and that I am part of the problem when they dont know the first thing about me my beliefs or my issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Aaand this is why I have a problem with these kinda threads

Vegan bashing now and I was the one accused of going off topic.

I honestly don't know any vegans who go on about saving the planet.

Ye's are all at it

Imagine I started a faux-concern thread for meat eaters

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

Dairy milk is also a very new addition to our diet. "

I prefer Bourneville myself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the blowback described against vegans is a result of the comments made by another, who managed to use the word proselytising in their post.

Which I had to Google. Ta.

As a vegetarian for well over 30 years, I've seen fads come and go, weathered the interrogations, what about bacon queries, the accusations of being fake because I use meat replacement products.

Watching people hop on the bandwagon, then fall off within weeks. They are usually the most pious and insufferable of all.

I don't actually think it's anything personal, but we've all met that idiot that made it this weeks cornerstone of their personality, and they're truly amazing creatures, at a distance and in limited sampling.

Are most vegans or meat eaters representative of the extremes of the spectrum, of course not. But if you think of either one, your brain can easily conjure a mental image based on stereotypes.

But that's the world we live in, extremes, discourse, arguments, clicks, engagement etc etc. Most people are pretty normal and chill, you just get these outliers that make the most noise and everyone assumes that's representative of the entire population.

Most of it is a little gentle ribbing so relax, and remember, vegans are pale and weak, meat eaters have cholesterol and will die of horrific bowel cancers.

If the tongue in cheek is lost here, I give up.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Aaand this is why I have a problem with these kinda threads

Vegan bashing now and I was the one accused of going off topic.

I honestly don't know any vegans who go on about saving the planet.

Ye's are all at it

Imagine I started a faux-concern thread for meat eaters

The backlash would be *incredible*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the blowback described against vegans is a result of the comments made by another, who managed to use the word proselytising in their post.

Which I had to Google. Ta.

As a vegetarian for well over 30 years, I've seen fads come and go, weathered the interrogations, what about bacon queries, the accusations of being fake because I use meat replacement products.

Watching people hop on the bandwagon, then fall off within weeks. They are usually the most pious and insufferable of all.

Are most vegans or meat eaters representative of the extremes of the spectrum, of course not. But if you think of either one, your brain can easily conjure a mental image based on stereotypes.

Most of it is a little gentle ribbing so relax, and remember, vegans are pale and weak, meat eaters have cholesterol and will die of horrific bowel cancers.

If the tongue in cheek is lost here, I give up.

Did you read the post directly before mine?

Not tongue in cheek at all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Aaand this is why I have a problem with these kinda threads

Vegan bashing now and I was the one accused of going off topic.

I honestly don't know any vegans who go on about saving the planet.

Ye's are all at it

Imagine I started a faux-concern thread for meat eaters

The backlash would be *incredible*

I got so close to posting one but this is enough amusement for today I think

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it okay for non vegans to preach about 'saving the planet'? Absolutely, my point exactly. Most of the vegans I've met(and yes due to certain issues I have met a large proportion) in the last couple of years proselytize constantly about how they are saving the planet and telling the rest of us how they are the only ones who care about the planets future which is total BS a lot of us really care about the planet without being vegan Years ago it was a personal choice and vegans were just vegetarians who chose not to only not eat meat but to not 'exploit' animals in any way. Fantastic no problem. I admired their belief in what they saw as unfair in fact I still do. I admire vegetarians for the same thing. What I dont admire is nowadays their habit of telling me I dont care and that I am part of the problem when they dont know the first thing about me my beliefs or my issues."

You been hanging round with groups of protestors?

I don't know if you're part of the problem or not but it's hard to ignore the arguments that humans ought to change a great deal of their behaviours, particularly those of us fortunate enough to live in wealthy nations.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

"I think the blowback described against vegans is a result of the comments made by another, who managed to use the word proselytising in their post.

Which I had to Google. Ta.

As a vegetarian for well over 30 years, I've seen fads come and go, weathered the interrogations, what about bacon queries, the accusations of being fake because I use meat replacement products.

Watching people hop on the bandwagon, then fall off within weeks. They are usually the most pious and insufferable of all.

Are most vegans or meat eaters representative of the extremes of the spectrum, of course not. But if you think of either one, your brain can easily conjure a mental image based on stereotypes.

Most of it is a little gentle ribbing so relax, and remember, vegans are pale and weak, meat eaters have cholesterol and will die of horrific bowel cancers.

If the tongue in cheek is lost here, I give up.

Actually that’s a pretty good summing up of the whole thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I read this morning that people using laughing gas are also at risk of becoming B12 deficient.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Aaand this is why I have a problem with these kinda threads

Vegan bashing now and I was the one accused of going off topic.

I honestly don't know any vegans who go on about saving the planet.

Ye's are all at it

Imagine I started a faux-concern thread for meat eaters

The backlash would be *incredible*

I got so close to posting one but this is enough amusement for today I think "

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By *ansexualPandaMan
over a year ago

Near You

Well, that all depends on how much meat you eat and what meat you eat. If you do care about the planet then you need to really research where your food comes from, meat, dairy and even plants. Not all the food vegans eat is sustainable or "green". Still, a vegan that consumes even the most damaging and unsustainable foods will have a lower impact on the planet than someone who eats meat every day, beef being the worst.

So anyone who doesn't really consider where their food comes from and how their daily activities impact the earth is part of the problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's hard to tell which post you mean rebel, you posted quite a lot in here, which is surprising, what with the blurry vision, gangly coordination and rudimentary dexterity caused by your poor diet.

But go you, an inspiration to all of the malnourished amongst you.

Now, see, I'm going to go against type and doubly confirm that is just a joke, ok guys?

As for people taking it far too seriously and making jabs, yeah I'm not surprised, I've had them back, but that's life. Outliers, the insistently severe and earnest folk competing for affirmation. Smile and nod.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I read this morning that people using laughing gas are also at risk of becoming B12 deficient."

Yeah that was on the radio the other day, awful stuff.

A young girl literally lost the use of her legs from it.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

it's all about personal choice really, nothing more than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's hard to tell which post you mean rebel, you posted quite a lot in here, which is surprising, what with the blurry vision, gangly coordination and rudimentary dexterity caused by your poor diet.

But go you, an inspiration to all of the malnourished amongst you.

Now, see, I'm going to go against type and doubly confirm that is just a joke, ok guys?

I can take a joke (and this raised a weak smile, all I can manage these days), and believe it or not I only mention I'm vegan when it is pertinent to the conversation in hand.

Wait til you find out I don't drink either (I'll wait for an appropriate thread to proselytise on that at length, though).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's hard to tell which post you mean rebel, you posted quite a lot in here, which is surprising, what with the blurry vision, gangly coordination and rudimentary dexterity caused by your poor diet.

But go you, an inspiration to all of the malnourished amongst you.

Now, see, I'm going to go against type and doubly confirm that is just a joke, ok guys?

I can take a joke (and this raised a weak smile, all I can manage these days), and believe it or not I only mention I'm vegan when it is pertinent to the conversation in hand.

Wait til you find out I don't drink either (I'll wait for an appropriate thread to proselytise on that at length, though).

Well, the drinking thing doesn't really rankle me at all. I go through flits and phases of never touching the stuff, to the classic British binge.

So I understand the struggle, I was summarily accused of being boring and thinking I'm better than everyone else when I stopped.

I mean I am, I do, but the lack of alcohol had little to do with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's hard to tell which post you mean rebel, you posted quite a lot in here, which is surprising, what with the blurry vision, gangly coordination and rudimentary dexterity caused by your poor diet.

But go you, an inspiration to all of the malnourished amongst you.

Now, see, I'm going to go against type and doubly confirm that is just a joke, ok guys?

I can take a joke (and this raised a weak smile, all I can manage these days), and believe it or not I only mention I'm vegan when it is pertinent to the conversation in hand.

Wait til you find out I don't drink either (I'll wait for an appropriate thread to proselytise on that at length, though).

Well, the drinking thing doesn't really rankle me at all. I go through flits and phases of never touching the stuff, to the classic British binge.

So I understand the struggle, I was summarily accused of being boring and thinking I'm better than everyone else when I stopped.

I mean I am, I do, but the lack of alcohol had little to do with it. "

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By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby

Eat plenty of fish, red meat, and veg and and try and keep things balanced throughout I'll survive...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can get proteins from pussy juice if the woman had sufficient cum at her weekend blowbang.

Well I heard it from the cousin of my friend Ricky Machado otherwise I would not know x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So anyone who doesn't really consider where their food comes from and how their daily activities impact the earth is part of the problem."

Due to serious health issues and being severely immunosuppressed

I am and have to be very aware of my food and its origins much more than the average person. I have to have a diet low in sodium and dairy products and rich in lean protein, phytonutrients, and omega 3 fatty acids as they are all a key support anchor in the management of my disease.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"Aaand this is why I have a problem with these kinda threads

Vegan bashing now and I was the one accused of going off topic.

I honestly don't know any vegans who go on about saving the planet.

Ye's are all at it

Imagine I started a faux-concern thread for meat eaters

The backlash would be *incredible*

I got so close to posting one but this is enough amusement for today I think "

You should, I’d certainly have stuff to add to it

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

"Well, the drinking thing doesn't really rankle me at all. I go through flits and phases of never touching the stuff, to the classic British binge.

So I understand the struggle, I was summarily accused of being boring and thinking I'm better than everyone else when I stopped.

I mean I am, I do, but the lack of alcohol had little to do with it. "

How did I know this was you before I read your profile name?

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

Do strict vegans try to avoid absolutely everything with animal derivatives in? That must be almost impossible. For example, matches, fabric conditioner, antifreeze, and violin strings all contain stuff from pigs, as do many other things.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do strict vegans try to avoid absolutely everything with animal derivatives in? That must be almost impossible. For example, matches, fabric conditioner, antifreeze, and violin strings all contain stuff from pigs, as do many other things. "

Nah mate, they eat chicken if they're in the mood cause ya know, it's chicken innit. Not really meat.

And yes, I've heard this before, no joke of a lie.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well, the drinking thing doesn't really rankle me at all. I go through flits and phases of never touching the stuff, to the classic British binge.

So I understand the struggle, I was summarily accused of being boring and thinking I'm better than everyone else when I stopped.

I mean I am, I do, but the lack of alcohol had little to do with it.

How did I know this was you before I read your profile name?

Because it's like looking in a mirror, except handsomer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The commercial use of bees as pollinators results in nearly as many individual deaths as say eating chickens. Crops are sprayed with insecticide, every food factory in the country will have a contract with a pest control company that will lay out poison traps. No one can live a life that doesn't involve the death of other creatures, pretending otherwise is delusional.

We can however make choices to reduce our impact and, as with so many labels, vegans are not a homogenous group and will undoubtedly have a wide range of which products/foods they consider to be acceptable on an individual basis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think there's always the case for not making good the enemy of perfect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there's always the case for not making good the enemy of perfect. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Kind of a weird argument though. You can go further too - how many animals are used in some way to support farming/agriculture/transport/shops.

How many insects were harmed etc. etc.

Doesn't mean it's pointless trying.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

I’d like to be a vegan but I’ll admit it’s just easier and cheaper and more enjoyable not being one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’d like to be a vegan but I’ll admit it’s just easier and cheaper and more enjoyable not being one

One of the main reasons I've stuck with it is I enjoy my food far more than I used to. That isn't just because I'm always hungry

although I do get to eat shit loads! I've learned loads more about flavours etc.

It is more effort though, especially at the beginning.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"I’d like to be a vegan but I’ll admit it’s just easier and cheaper and more enjoyable not being one

One of the main reasons I've stuck with it is I enjoy my food far more than I used to. That isn't just because I'm always hungry

although I do get to eat shit loads! I've learned loads more about flavours etc.

It is more effort though, especially at the beginning."

I think being a good cook and some time with being vegan helps massively

I’ve just structured all my food to not be vegan, and I eat a lot.

With energy prices going up, I doubt I’ll change anytime soon.

It’s sad to admit, but on a budget meat wins for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that's the nail firmly hit.

Veganism and vegetarianism requires effort, skill and perseverance.

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By *otsossieMan
over a year ago

Chesterfield

"I think that's the nail firmly hit.

Veganism and vegetarianism requires effort, skill and perseverance. "

And planning. I have a few vegan friends and it’s surprisingly easy to eat poorly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’d like to be a vegan but I’ll admit it’s just easier and cheaper and more enjoyable not being one

One of the main reasons I've stuck with it is I enjoy my food far more than I used to. That isn't just because I'm always hungry

although I do get to eat shit loads! I've learned loads more about flavours etc.

It is more effort though, especially at the beginning.

I think being a good cook and some time with being vegan helps massively

I’ve just structured all my food to not be vegan, and I eat a lot.

With energy prices going up, I doubt I’ll change anytime soon.

It’s sad to admit, but on a budget meat wins for me. "

Energy wise there's a possible saving in that veggies don't take much time to cook and there's little to worry about food poisoning wise but yeah it's hard to compete with the costs of frozen chicken for a high protein diet.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"I think that's the nail firmly hit.

Veganism and vegetarianism requires effort, skill and perseverance. "

Absolutely! Who knows what is healthier, but I think it’s pretty understood that vegan is more green?

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"I’d like to be a vegan but I’ll admit it’s just easier and cheaper and more enjoyable not being one

One of the main reasons I've stuck with it is I enjoy my food far more than I used to. That isn't just because I'm always hungry

although I do get to eat shit loads! I've learned loads more about flavours etc.

It is more effort though, especially at the beginning.

I think being a good cook and some time with being vegan helps massively

I’ve just structured all my food to not be vegan, and I eat a lot.

With energy prices going up, I doubt I’ll change anytime soon.

It’s sad to admit, but on a budget meat wins for me.

Cheap protein is probably vegans biggest issue when it comes to other countries. You just can’t beat that dirt cheap protein sadly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think that's the nail firmly hit.

Veganism and vegetarianism requires effort, skill and perseverance.

And planning. I have a few vegan friends and it’s surprisingly easy to eat poorly. "

Yeah there's easy ways to do it but the same as other diets really, if you go for the convenient option there's a price to pay.

Once you're in the habit and you've got a cupboard full of staples it's not that hard to cook from scratch though and you don't need to worry so much about best before dates, cooking meat properly, not cross contaminating etc. etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is firmly in a vegetarian lense, but, as for the cheap protein, I'm fairly certain meat replacement products are cheaper than most, maybe not all, especially when on offer.

The protein per 100g is pretty solid, between 15-25 depending on choices, and honestly, some of it is plenty fine when cooked with half a degree of sense.

Some of its awful, looking at you Linda McCartney chicken chunks and burgers.

Then you've other sources, eggs, dairy, whey and pulses etc. All solid choices and affordable, proper skill and seasoning, tonnes of options.

I'm accidentally vegan quite often, and usually it's just the final flourish of cheese or cream that ruins it. However, I just know if I went full on vegan my macros would suffer immediately.

It all comes back to that element of perseverance, it's a choice informing behaviour. No one legitimately eats vegan cheese because it tastes better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The ingredients I use for seitan which is probably one of the best protein options works out to about £7 a kilo.

My son bought himself a kilo of chicken yesterday for £3. A fair bit of that will be bones and I can't see him boiling it up for soup

so it's probably not massively different in the end.

My son will eat our vegan meal and then make himself a second meal of chicken!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The ingredients I use for seitan which is probably one of the best protein options works out to about £7 a kilo.

My son bought himself a kilo of chicken yesterday for £3. A fair bit of that will be bones and I can't see him boiling it up for soup

so it's probably not massively different in the end.

My son will eat our vegan meal and then make himself a second meal of chicken!"

So you make your own then?

It's a weird old process, crazy to think of all that protein pulled from flour. At first I thought it was a wind up, just gonna rinse my flour for tea...

Yeah, ok love, gonna stroke the tree for custard next? Sit down, I'll call the GP.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"The ingredients I use for seitan which is probably one of the best protein options works out to about £7 a kilo.

My son bought himself a kilo of chicken yesterday for £3. A fair bit of that will be bones and I can't see him boiling it up for soup

so it's probably not massively different in the end.

My son will eat our vegan meal and then make himself a second meal of chicken!"

Is it a complete protein? I’ve never hear of it before

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The ingredients I use for seitan which is probably one of the best protein options works out to about £7 a kilo.

My son bought himself a kilo of chicken yesterday for £3. A fair bit of that will be bones and I can't see him boiling it up for soup

so it's probably not massively different in the end.

My son will eat our vegan meal and then make himself a second meal of chicken!

Is it a complete protein? I’ve never hear of it before "

Depends how you make it but I go with vital wheat gluten flour, combined with chickpea flour and also little wholemeal. I mix it up with soya milk so plenty of different protein sources in that.

You just mix it together, tear it into chunks. Fry it a little. Then I cut into smaller chunks, sprinkle with a chicken seasoning blend and fry again with some soy sauce and lemon juice.

If you throw it into a curry it's hard to tell much difference from meat. The vital wheat gluten is the priciest ingredient but I buy that in bulk online.

There are loads of other ways of making it but I find this method the simplest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The ingredients I use for seitan which is probably one of the best protein options works out to about £7 a kilo.

My son bought himself a kilo of chicken yesterday for £3. A fair bit of that will be bones and I can't see him boiling it up for soup

so it's probably not massively different in the end.

My son will eat our vegan meal and then make himself a second meal of chicken!

Is it a complete protein? I’ve never hear of it before "

Has all 9 essential aminos but short on lysine, so eat some legumes. That's a real stretch for a vegan

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By *un-n-frolicsMan
over a year ago

London

I read recently (admit, I didn’t research further) that cows etc have B12 from the soil, but their diets are also depleted these days are so given supplements. So we might as well be vegan and take the supplements directly.

I’ve found the article: https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/vegan-diet/the-truth-about-b12-and-where-to-get-it-on-a-vegan-diet/

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By *ansexualPandaMan
over a year ago

Near You

Many meat and dairy eaters also don't get enough vitamin B12. It isn't unheard of for them to develop issues relating to deficiency either.

Also, it is totally possible to have a balanced vegan diet and get enough B12 but to be safe (and because I'll often slip into eating junk) I also take B12 tablets.

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By *un-n-frolicsMan
over a year ago

London

"I think that's the nail firmly hit.

Veganism and vegetarianism requires effort, skill and perseverance.

Absolutely! Who knows what is healthier, but I think it’s pretty understood that vegan is more green? "

And somewhat more pleasant for the animals?

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By *oxy jWoman
over a year ago

somerset

ive been vegi since teens i eat lots of veg fruit and try and avoid as much process food as i can i do it for me and my health ...i dont preach i eat alot of vegan but always check the labels as alot of it is still junk just because its labeled vegi or vegan does not mean its healthy i take a multi b vitamin daily thats vegetarian along with other vits to make sure im getting what i need ...

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

I'm not vegan but I've suffered with folate deficiency a few times as an adult.

I take medication for a hiatus hernia which can affect vitamin absorption, plus I'm getting older.

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By *ackandtheunicornCouple
over a year ago

liverpool

B12 deficiency isn't a vegan thing.

Something like 60% of people are deficient in it regardless of diet.

It's down to the soil(which is where b12 comes from) being completely depleted of minerals and nutrients due to intensive farming.

There's a reason cattle are injected with amounts of b12.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Many meat and dairy eaters also don't get enough vitamin B12. It isn't unheard of for them to develop issues relating to deficiency either.

Also, it is totally possible to have a balanced vegan diet and get enough B12 but to be safe (and because I'll often slip into eating junk) I also take B12 tablets."
I've seen similar. B12 comea from microorganisms in the soil but all the ferlelizer and shit has killed it off. So whereaa we used to get it from our Vege we don't. Animals also get it from the same source and so would be depleted, but are given supplements.

I'm starting being plant centric so am supplementing.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

According to an article I read our stomachs have become less able to absorb vit b12 because of factors like H Pylori, stress, alcohol, acid reflux medicines amongst other things.

When my folates were very low I wasn't able to think straight; I was exhausted all the time and my muscles hurt more.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I bought b12 vitamins tablets as it’s suppose to be one of those things that helps in the recovery from Bell’s palsy… 400 tablets, 1 a day, 10 pounds….

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I bought b12 vitamins tablets as it’s suppose to be one of those things that helps in the recovery from Bell’s palsy… 400 tablets, 1 a day, 10 pounds….

How long do you think until you observe a difference.. Or is it more about maintaining the same level you have now ?

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By *eah BabyCouple
over a year ago

Cheshire, Windermere ,Cumbria

Hearing a lot of people are deficient in this vitamin lately, my self included, I was slightly over the pass rate for it in April so low but not low enough for the docs to suggest anything so I started taking a supplement, it’s doubled since April so moving in the right direction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hearing a lot of people are deficient in this vitamin lately, my self included, I was slightly over the pass rate for it in April so low but not low enough for the docs to suggest anything so I started taking a supplement, it’s doubled since April so moving in the right direction."

that is great!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seems to be a daily topic on here started by non vegans showing faux concern about the vegan diet."

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