FabSwingers.com forum: Building new homes on open land..

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

It is being proposed that more new homes should be built on open land. This country is desperately short on housing and the increase in building would boost the economy.

So surely its a good thing and the NIMBYs should be ignored on this occasion, or should they?

Full story http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20510692

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are thousands of empty properties that could be renovated, there would also be jobs for bringing the properties up to a high standard and plenty of training for trades too.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"There are thousands of empty properties that could be renovated, there would also be jobs for bringing the properties up to a high standard and plenty of training for trades too.

And build houses with cellars like they do in Germany and build good quality blocks of flats that look good and are good to live in. Building on green land is a long term mistake bought on by a desperate short termist gover-mental approach to getting the economy going again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are thousands of empty properties that could be renovated, there would also be jobs for bringing the properties up to a high standard and plenty of training for trades too.

Does open land mean green sites or include brown sites too ?

I agree there were far to many empty properties around in need of renovation ....

There are a few schemes where it is able to buy a house for one pound, and them undertake repairs etc. to bring it back to standard , I think huddersfield is one of the places to be trialling this ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I often wonder if all this flooding we're getting these days is partly down to building on land that was previously open and that natural drainaways have been disturbed.

The road network is truly shocking as I've travelled up ad down the country most of my working life and I've never seen the roads in such a poor state as they are now. Last weekend was bloody hairy I can tell ya!

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

Look at some of the recent floods for evidence of the success of that policy in the past !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Look at some of the recent floods for evidence of the success of that policy in the past !"

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

They were selling homes for 50p at one point or something stupid up north. I bet they wished they'd kept them now instead of knocking them down.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They were selling homes for 50p at one point or something stupid up north. I bet they wished they'd kept them now instead of knocking them down. "

So did they sell them for 50p or knock them down???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are thousands of empty properties that could be renovated, there would also be jobs for bringing the properties up to a high standard and plenty of training for trades too.

I think in many urban areas, properties sit derelict because the ground they lie on is worth more £'s wise if sold on to a developer for business or commercial use.

I work in an area adjacent to a quite a large council estate, no more than a mile from Central Manchester.

There has been some re-gen of council properties, but in the main the land has been cleared and sold to private developers.

Other properties have sat mournfully empty for the past 4/5 years just waiting for the bulldozer.

I recall going to a meeting of the local chamber of commerce maybe 6 years ago where a speaker from the council spoke of 'new communities' within the outer ring round.

I have yet to see a new community - or even the makings of one.

What I have seen is a number of small new developments popping up of maybe 50/60 houses, but not with any obvious pattern or reason.

Moreover, where the empty lots sat, we now see new hotels, retail parks (often half empty) and more than anything, car parks !

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"They were selling homes for 50p at one point or something stupid up north. I bet they wished they'd kept them now instead of knocking them down.

So did they sell them for 50p or knock them down???

God knows and amusingly enough it was a labour initiative!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should we not be thinking of reducing the amount of people in this country and other countries. Too many people, not enough food. Make use of boarded up homes, disused married quarters from old disused military camps.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Should we not be thinking of reducing the amount of people in this country and other countries. Too many people, not enough food. Make use of boarded up homes, disused married quarters from old disused military camps."

Lots of unused houses. People should be asked to do them up and sell them or rent them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lots of unused houses. People should be asked to do them up and sell them or rent them."

The Arny has sold off a lot of their housing stock in the past few years (my sister bought two of them). This was down to the greatly reduced number of soldiers in our standing army and the housing for them simply wasn't needed anymore. There are stipulations governing the purchase of these houses and they are sold with a 25% discount on a first come first served basis when each tranche of housing blocks are released. My sis used to pay a teenager £500 to camp outside for a week and then she'd turn up on the day and take his place.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Lots of unused houses. People should be asked to do them up and sell them or rent them."

Which is OK in cities, but where I live it is small town with no spare housing stock and a growing population, so new homes are needed. I live in the country, do open land is the only way forward.

In cities, I have always wondered about vacant office blocks and why they can't be turned in to flats

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lots of empty property as others have said. Will developers commit to new builds, construction in the commercial sector is hardly booming and who will buy the empty houses with banks not lending? Or do we go down the Chinese route of huge developments ultimately sitting empty.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Unused office blocks is a good idea especially in London, being more flexible with planning laws in that's sense is good. Building on fresh green land is not a long term solution. This is a small island with limited space. Build upwards or downwards but not outwards. I don't understand the queue for £500? What is that about?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No real long term forward planning in this country I feel.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"No real long term forward planning in this country I feel."

I agree. Too much short termism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lots of unused houses. People should be asked to do them up and sell them or rent them.

Which is OK in cities, but where I live it is small town with no spare housing stock and a growing population, so new homes are needed. I live in the country, do open land is the only way forward.

In cities, I have always wondered about vacant office blocks and why they can't be turned in to flats"

This is my view too. There are huge numbers of dated, unwanted office buildings, commercial sites and old factories/warehouses the no-one will touch from a business perspective due to location, refurbishment cost and the sheer number of newer more conveniently placed sites.

Travelling as much as I do I'm forever seeing sites that would make perfect conversion to flats - and as the biggest shortage is in affordable smaller homes - 1/2 bed - these are ripe for purchase by local government to ease the demand on housing.

Just look at what's happened on the old railway site in Taunton - private developers are building away but the first to go up were two blocks of flats, the majority of which are owned by a housing association. And I've been in one and they're perfect for singles, couples, young families and the elderly.

Without making such homes available a large proportion of the current stock is being under utilised with singles/couples in 3/4 bed homes that could go to those in need of larger accommodation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can anyone else see the UK Housing Market going the same way as most of Europe with a far higher number of people renting property as opposed to buying and owning it ?

Are there any property developers in here ? It would be interesting to know of the new properties being released onto the market just how many are being bought to live in and how many are bought for buy to let purposes.

I have certainly seen a shift locally in the direction of increased property rentals as opposed to property sales - the amount of 'TO LET' signs tell a story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't understand the queue for £500? What is that about?"

The Army released their housing stock in blocks and to get one you had to be in the queue on the morning the sales started. It was a first through the door situation so if there was 500 houses for sale and 501 people wanting them the last person missed out. As my sister had two small children to deal with she couldn't camp out in the queue to make sure she got a house so she paid a teenager to do it for her. All the purchasers did the same thing.

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield

My previous home (council stock) was compulsorily knocked down and everyone relocated as it was built copying the Scandinavian methods but using experimental cheaper techniques. Which then 'rotted'.

Not only did they relocate all the council tenants, bumping them to the top of waiting lists and paying moving costs and other costs like installing washers etc, they also bought out those who had bought their homes and helped them to move too.

All well and good as the properties were crumbling and had become a hazard.

But, they entered into a partnership with private developers who were going to build the replacement properties on these sites and then the developers would own a certain amount to sell off and the council would have new housing stock. I believe there was also a deal with some local housing associations so they would own some of the stock. So far, so good.

Until the crash hit and none of these sites has been built on.

Vast swathes of inner city Sheffield with empty streets and a major housing shortage not only council but affordable first time buyer properties and housing association.

There are suitable sites in many place which are lying dormant just waiting for a creative solution. But having a long list of smaller projects and fiddly solutions does not make for good, strong manifestos unlike a decisive "We are going to free up green belt land for new builds to answer the housing crisis".

Experience has shown that this kind of initiative is successful because somehow the properties built end up housing people who are vocal and visible, not the hand to mouth, sleeping on friends and families sofas with two kids and have so many other concerns and three jobs that they will never sit down and write to the papers or stand up and vaunt their happiness at a party political conference people...

(off to put my soap box away now, unless anyone wants a lend?)

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

"There are thousands of empty properties that could be renovated, there would also be jobs for bringing the properties up to a high standard and plenty of training for trades too.

there was a recent programme about this,its shocking that so many houses are empty!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not until they have used up ALL of the decaying "brownfield sites". That would be stupid.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Not until they have used up ALL of the decaying "brownfield sites". That would be stupid."

Yep, and all the unused houses

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

Before we cover the country side in new housing we should be filling up the empty houses!

I also think we need to new ideas for housing rather than continually building new boxes. For instance, look at any out of town retail development, they are basically single story huge great sheds. Now if you look at the roof area you could possible fit hundreds of homes on there with ample parking as well. I am no architect but it cant be that hard to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ministers state that currently 9% of UK land is built on and another 2% to 3% will solve the housing shortage.. Hindsight is a great thing, if only previous Goverments had the vision not to have allowed the UK so easy and accessible to move to and live from foreign shores, perhaps the need for new housing developments would not be required to the extent it is now.

The news I believe only relates to green belt land and not Brown belt..

Please see article below.

Planning minister Nick Boles said owning a decent home was a 'moral right'

A third more of the country should be built on to solve the housing crisis, the coalition's planning minister has suggested.

Nick Boles said owning a decent home was a "moral right", and people had to realise that good developments could be as attractive as open countryside.

The comments, in an interview with BBC's Newsnight due to be aired on Wednesday, will infuriate campaigners fighting government efforts to loosen the planning system.

Mr Boles said: "We're going to protect the greenbelt but if people want to have housing for their kids they have got to accept we need to build more on some open land.

"In the UK and England at the moment we've got about 9% of land developed. All we need to do is build on another 2-3% of land and we'll have solved a housing problem."

He insisted everyone had "the right to live somewhere that is not just affordable but that is beautiful and has some green space nearby".

That was "a basic moral right, like healthcare and education", according to the Tory minister.

Addressing so-called "nimbys", Mr Boles said: "It's my job to make the arguments to these people that if they carry on writing letters their kids are never going to get a place with a garden to bring up their grandkids.

"I accept we haven't been able to persuade them. I think it would be easier if we could persuade them that the new development would be beautiful...

"The built environment can be more beautiful than nature and we shouldn't obsess about the fact that the only landscapes that are beautiful are open - sometimes buildings are better."

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By *almh5Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

We own some property in Manchester a few of which are new builds. If someone wants to buy one to let it out I advise against it! Their value has dropped, theres so many around it's difficult or not worth selling them, add up with the cost of the service charges and it's not a good business idea. People much prefer to live in the '2 up, 2 downs'

Where we live in Manchester we've also had huge amounts of houses knocked down to be replaced with modern buildings that as another poster has pointed out are already rotting! Meanwhile the 100+ year old ones are going strong! The new ones were also supposed to be affordable but all thats happened is that developers have bought them and are renting them out at unaffordable prices.

Theres 1000's of empty houses in Manchester and the owners should be forced to rent them out, Manchester already has a scheme where it makes owners rent to them and other Housing Associations and they recommend tenants for them, but it should be implemented even more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We own some property in Manchester a few of which are new builds. If someone wants to buy one to let it out I advise against it! Their value has dropped, theres so many around it's difficult or not worth selling them, add up with the cost of the service charges and it's not a good business idea. People much prefer to live in the '2 up, 2 downs'

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Again, everyone is concentrating on cities. Lack of housing is a national issue. What about rural communities with no brown field sites? The locals still need affordable housing, so surely pushing through plans on green belt sites is appropriate

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Again, everyone is concentrating on cities. Lack of housing is a national issue. What about rural communities with no brown field sites? The locals still need affordable housing, so surely pushing through plans on green belt sites is appropriate"

Ive seen lots of brown fields at this time of year....

We visited Cornwall this summer and, in-between mouthfuls of TAX-FREE pasty, chatted to a local who told me in winter the place was dead with about 50% of near to harbour places owned by summer only people and caused prices to rise so much locals couldn't afford to live there. A place in Kent is only renting to local people or people who help in the community.

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

The problem with many rural locations is holiday homes or commuter ownership. Holiday homes should be taxed so highly they are unviable imo, if you want a holiday home make do with a mobile one. Commuters i.e. wealthy folk who can afford the 100 mile trip to work should also be dissuaded. And no its not envy on my part!

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By *H.coupleCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh

"There are thousands of empty properties that could be renovated, there would also be jobs for bringing the properties up to a high standard and plenty of training for trades too.

sounds like a far better solution to me

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By *H.coupleCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh

"The problem with many rural locations is holiday homes or commuter ownership. Holiday homes should be taxed so highly they are unviable imo, if you want a holiday home make do with a mobile one. Commuters i.e. wealthy folk who can afford the 100 mile trip to work should also be dissuaded. And no its not envy on my part! "

Sorry, but i totally disagree with this statement, if someone has worked hard enough to be able to afford a 2nd home, then fair play to them.

They may even rent them out, enabling people who cant afford a top of the range holiday, to have a break at reasonable prices.

I do however, agree with slightly higher tax for "rich" but not too much. Am i right in thinking that taxes are worked out on a percentage?

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

Hemel Hempstead is one town that has turned office blocks into housing. The old Kodak building has been converted into good quality "Apartments" and the old tax office, overlooking the water gardens is also apartments.

It is a great use of what would have become unrentable office space and it is hoped will help rejuvenate the town centre, which has become dire over the last ten years or so....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Ive seen lots of brown fields at this time of year....

There is no denying that holiday homes are an issue, but these tend to be in scenic parts. I can't imagine too nan holiday homes in places like around St Austell and the localsCornish Alps. Likewise in parts of Devon. Where I live has very little tourism or, I believe, second homes. But the local youngsters cannot afford the current houses as demand has pushed up price.

I love the idea on national scale of compulsory purchases on vacant houses. Getting youngsters into some form of apprenticeship doing building would be a great benefit.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Sorry, but i totally disagree with this statement, if someone has worked hard enough to be able to afford a 2nd home, then fair play to them.

They may even rent them out, enabling people who cant afford a top of the range holiday, to have a break at reasonable prices.

I do however, agree with slightly higher tax for "rich" but not too much. Am i right in thinking that taxes are worked out on a percentage?

Is council tax on holiday homes still subsidised? I do believe second home owners should pay full tax on both properties

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

Sorry, but i totally disagree with this statement, if someone has worked hard enough to be able to afford a 2nd home, then fair play to them.

So because someone has enough money to price locals out of a home forcing them to move away and ultimately turning the place into a dead holiday village thats ok is it!

Some people work bloody hard all their lives yet cant afford one house to live in never mind a holiday home, many because they have been priced out of the market by holiday home owners!

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By *H.coupleCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh

Sorry, but i totally disagree with this statement, if someone has worked hard enough to be able to afford a 2nd home, then fair play to them.

They may even rent them out, enabling people who cant afford a top of the range holiday, to have a break at reasonable prices.

I do however, agree with slightly higher tax for "rich" but not too much. Am i right in thinking that taxes are worked out on a percentage?

Is council tax on holiday homes still subsidised? I do believe second home owners should pay full tax on both properties "

Im not sure to be honest, but if they are renting a holiday home out that surely is classed as an income, if everything is declared then, again the yearly income would be taxed

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By *H.coupleCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh

Sorry, but i totally disagree with this statement, if someone has worked hard enough to be able to afford a 2nd home, then fair play to them.

So because someone has enough money to price locals out of a home forcing them to move away and ultimately turning the place into a dead holiday village thats ok is it!

Some people work bloody hard all their lives yet cant afford one house to live in never mind a holiday home, many because they have been priced out of the market by holiday home owners! "

Yeah, we're in the same boat, but there is plenty of places to live that can be affordable, live to your means and all that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm a property developer. Bought and sold a few myself and do a lot of labour work for property developers. The bank need to start releasing more funds for people to buy, renovate and sell/rent. It actually works out cheaper to but a plot of land and new build house than to renovate on a lot of occasions. Needs to be incentives to be put in place for renovating properties. Cheaper properties and banks lending more for a start.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry, but i totally disagree with this statement, if someone has worked hard enough to be able to afford a 2nd home, then fair play to them.

So because someone has enough money to price locals out of a home forcing them to move away and ultimately turning the place into a dead holiday village thats ok is it!

Some people work bloody hard all their lives yet cant afford one house to live in never mind a holiday home, many because they have been priced out of the market by holiday home owners!

Yeah, we're in the same boat, but there is plenty of places to live that can be affordable, live to your means and all that"

I used to rent a 2 up, 2 down in a green belt area on the edge of the Pennines / Peak District.

It had no gardens front or rear, was on a main road and had a train tack running directly behind it.

At their peak, similar houses on that row were selling at £130,000 to £160,000

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"There are thousands of empty properties that could be renovated, there would also be jobs for bringing the properties up to a high standard and plenty of training for trades too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is being proposed that more new homes should be built on open land. This country is desperately short on housing and the increase in building would boost the economy.

So surely its a good thing and the NIMBYs should be ignored on this occasion, or should they?

Full story http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20510692

Fuck em build more inner city towerblocks.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I think second house owners should pay twice as much council tax and those with 3 houses lots more. Funny that they are called apartments and not flats. It will be condominiums next and who wants to get stuck in one of those eh? Especially if they are too small eh? Eh? Know what I mean?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I saw an interesting discussion between Heseltine and Richard Rogers yesterday. Both were on more or less the same page on building on green belt: do it and create equivalent pockets of green as part of the deal. Both advocating brownfield regeneration. Both advocating increasing densities.

The average age for a first time buyer in London is now 40. The market is still overheated as rich Russian, Chinese and others buy here and inflate the prices. That means that the rental market is also bonkers. People are putting in sealed bids for rental properties. Student accommodation is £200 per week.

More can be done in London but accommodating another 1.5 million people is going to be tricky.

The rural dilemma is more acute though. The countryside will become a theme park unless we create new housing for rural communities.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I saw an interesting discussion between Heseltine and Richard Rogers yesterday. Both were on more or less the same page on building on green belt: do it and create equivalent pockets of green as part of the deal. Both advocating brownfield regeneration. Both advocating increasing densities.

More can be done in London but accommodating another 1.5 million people is going to be tricky.

The rural dilemma is more acute though. The countryside will become a theme park unless we create new housing for rural communities."

Its generally cheaper to buy down here than rent, but the wages are so low that people cant get on the housing ladder... Catch 22

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Greenfield projects are not as cost effective and brownfield development.

Greenfield also brings other problems... transport... no schools and so on. Which makes it not the greatest for developing affordable housing for low income families.

There are plenty of brownfield areas... they should be developed first.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The problem in South Devon over the last few years is that many Brown Field sites have gone to commercial use rather than housing, this has only served to drive up the price of land for housing all the more.

There is often more money to be made from commercial rather than housing land in an area that is desperately in need of more goods distribution hubs and major warehousing complexes.

This has meant that here has been a decided lack of housing stock built on the M5/A38 corridor in my region since 2000.

Coupled with the fact that an awful lot of land designated as 'Green Belt' in the 1980's and 90's was incorrectly listed as such, in a clear attempt to stifle house building by 'Nimby' groups and do-gooders, it has left South Devon severely short of building land.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where else would you build them smash down houses to then build new ones na sod the wild life just build that's what I say

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