FabSwingers.com forum: Friends with benefits

By *illyv OP Man
over a year ago

bexleyheath

How many of you have friends with benefits and are just friends dont mind them seeing other people or are you jealous and want then all to your self ?

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

I do and no I'm not even in the slightest bit jealous. I enjoy hearing About their exploits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Being a swinger's site, most here will be the jealous kind, wanting to keep their partners to themselves

On a serious note, I've seen several singles claim they wouldn't bring a partner into this lifestyle

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

As long as she uses protection I don’t mind

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

If you want them all to yourself isn't that slipping into relationship territory rather than just friends with benefits ?

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By *illyv OP Man
over a year ago

bexleyheath

Its a funny reason why i asked this question so im single and i have/had this same friend with benefits for couple months now told her i was on here and i go to clubs and events and she went crazy and told me i was out of order and she wants me to her self just to find out she been on tinder and has been going on dates lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its a funny reason why i asked this question so im single and i have/had this same friend with benefits for couple months now told her i was on here and i go to clubs and events and she went crazy and told me i was out of order and she wants me to her self just to find out she been on tinder and has been going on dates lol "

Run

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By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

I'd be jealous of them getting more sex than me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Chastity belt until we meet again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In short, she waved a huge red flag in your face

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By *illyv OP Man
over a year ago

bexleyheath

Haha loving the reply’s yer defo a red flag or two lately problem is we have been friends for a long time but only been friends with benefits for about a year and half on and off at the start so bit hard to just walk away ?

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"Haha loving the reply’s yer defo a red flag or two lately problem is we have been friends for a long time but only been friends with benefits for about a year and half on and off at the start so bit hard to just walk away ?

I thought you said you were friends with benefits for a couple of months

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"i have/had this same friend with benefits for couple months "

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By *illyv OP Man
over a year ago

bexleyheath

We was on and off at the start but been alot more consistent last couple months

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

How often do you see each other ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's possible there's feelings being ignored or denied here.

Maybe sit down with her, discuss what hopes you both have and how you feel about the situation.

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By *illyv OP Man
over a year ago

bexleyheath

Went from being once every couple weeks to couple nights aweek

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By *illyv OP Man
over a year ago

bexleyheath

Tried that and all i got back from her was no dont want a relationship but also dont want you fucking or keeting other people i want you all to my self lol ??

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By *onlywishiMan
over a year ago

Newcastle

It’s hard if they are friends already but being close is sometimes not a good thing ? Try to put sometime between meets so it doesn’t turn into more of a relationship than someone you have great fun with and that’s all ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tried that and all i got back from her was no dont want a relationship but also dont want you fucking or keeting other people i want you all to my self lol ?? "

No, just no.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"Tried that and all i got back from her was no dont want a relationship but also dont want you fucking or keeting other people i want you all to my self lol ?? "

Fair enough if that’s what she wants. That’s what I do. I’m not a fan of sharing my men. She should have said this from the beginning though. That’s where people get all these problems. Be honest and straight about what you want! x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tried that and all i got back from her was no dont want a relationship but also dont want you fucking or keeting other people i want you all to my self lol ?? "

I'd say, well put a stop to it then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All my friends are to be kept a little at arms length

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tried that and all i got back from her was no dont want a relationship but also dont want you fucking or keeting other people i want you all to my self lol ?? "

People say that to make it sound like a good or a cute thing but actually it's controlling and manipulative.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All my friends are to be kept a little at arms length"
but then again i am a T rex

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"All my friends are to be kept a little at arms lengthbut then again i am a T rex"

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"Tried that and all i got back from her was no dont want a relationship but also dont want you fucking or keeting other people i want you all to my self lol ??

No, just no.

I agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As long as she uses protection I don’t mind "

No offence but what business is it of yours if she does or not? She is just a friend who lets you fuck her shes not your girlfriend. No hate meant, just asking the question?

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"Tried that and all i got back from her was no dont want a relationship but also dont want you fucking or keeting other people i want you all to my self lol ?? "

Yet she can have dates from Tinder ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have a fwb I met off fab. Her and I are both able to meet others with no jealousy. We also said it would be hot to hear about eachother's meets

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Me and her started off with fwb and now we're properly together and happy

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

Get rid.

Hardly how a friend would treat you.

I don’t do FWB or fuckbuddies cos I think the lines always get blurred. I often club with male friends though and absolutely do as they like.

If i was jealous that’s my problem not theirs and I’d remove myself from the situation.

No one has any right to be jealous or demanding.

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By *exyPirateMan
over a year ago

Cambridge

This probably sounds like a real first world problem to all the men out there not getting any! Ahem!

You’ve bother been exploring other options in different ways. I don’t see the problem!

Either leave it like it is, or have the dreaded exclusivity chat!! The choice is as much yours as hers! I’ll swap with you if you like

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

Have you considered lying to her and saying you will be exclusive ?

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By *illingdon_ladMan
over a year ago

Bicester

Ah I've had this, I was fucking a girl for a bit, she wanted more than me and I made it clear what I wanted. She fucked some guy she was friends with but as soon as I got attention from another lady she went mad.

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By *mwirralMan
over a year ago

wirral

I had a fwb at one point, she fucked someone else, I didn't like it, turned out I wanted more than fab so we started a real relationship

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As long as she uses protection I don’t mind

No offence but what business is it of yours if she does or not? She is just a friend who lets you fuck her shes not your girlfriend. No hate meant, just asking the question?"

You might want to ask yourself that question in what it's got to do with you

He's absolutely in his right to say he's fine with it so long as there's protection, if he uses protection too.

It's good to know the facts and if not comfortable then change things.

I wouldn't see it as a friend who let's me fuck her, but two friends fucking together and therefore to be respectful of one another.

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

Does ‘ cake and eat it’ spring to mind

This is a swinging site, why do people want to treat it like a dating site? If you enter into an FWB arrangement you should agree the boundaries from the onset. Don’t try to bend the boundaries to meet YOUR requirements, that’s not fair.

And because it’s a swinging site you cannot expect a FWB to be exclusive to you! There may be times when you alone are not enough, it becomes tedious. At the point you are treating it like a relationship is often the point they bail out and when the drama llamas come out because it isn’t what you thought it was!

I don’t think a lot of people here find an exclusive FWB simply because they make it obvious it comes with complications that often become more than it’s worth to some.

An FWB arrangement works for me because I compartmentalise it. I pick it up and put it down as suits me, as suits ‘us’ I dont ask questions about other people, nor do I share details therefore there is no reason to be jealous.

It’s there to be enjoyed whilst you have the time together. Don’t make it something it clearly not!

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"Tried that and all i got back from her was no dont want a relationship but also dont want you fucking or keeting other people i want you all to my self lol ?? "

Also known as “meeting as many people as I want, but you can’t”

That’s a big no. Huge red flag

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"As long as she uses protection I don’t mind

No offence but what business is it of yours if she does or not? She is just a friend who lets you fuck her shes not your girlfriend. No hate meant, just asking the question?"

No offence taken

We don’t use protection, so I’d like to know we are both being responsible with other partners for each other’s safety

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you considered lying to her and saying you will be exclusive ?"

Solution to a problem.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

It boils down to everyone does fab their own way. Communication is key. That’s where the problem lies. If you want different things then walk away, never try to change someone. Just be honest. It’s always worked for me and I’m still good friends with every single person I’ve met.

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By *riar BelisseWoman
over a year ago

Bliss

I'm not looking for exclusivity, just trust in that anyone I meet on a regular basis will not bring ANY drama to my door, or I'm off... Quick Smart.

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By *illyv OP Man
over a year ago

bexleyheath

Thanks for the replies everyone gonna have another chat with her tonight and tell her how i feel and that i dont want a relationship im happy being free and enjoying life and having fun with fab and that she will always be my friend but think the benefits needs to stop before makes things worse and lose each other as friends?

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"Thanks for the replies everyone gonna have another chat with her tonight and tell her how i feel and that i dont want a relationship im happy being free and enjoying life and having fun with fab and that she will always be my friend but think the benefits needs to stop before makes things worse and lose each other as friends? "

Smart move, just be prepared. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. She’s probably never heard no in her life before, might effect the relationship even though your doing the right thing

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By *affeine DuskMan
over a year ago

Caerphilly

Totally the right approach, man.

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By *aximus74Woman
over a year ago

Manchester

"Tried that and all i got back from her was no dont want a relationship but also dont want you fucking or keeting other people i want you all to my self lol ?? "

I'm afraid you may lose the friendship. If you both don't want a relationship but she wants you all to herself,means she's hiding the fact she has feelings for you and actually wants a relationship but saying she doesn't just to keep you near. I hope you work it out,as I've been there and lost my best friend (him not me) found it awkward,and it felt like I lost my right arm..(he was also jealous,but was ok for him to see others)

Good luck OP

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

"Tried that and all i got back from her was no dont want a relationship but also dont want you fucking or keeting other people i want you all to my self lol ??

Good luck OP

I agree with this. Once you cross that line she will quite possibly close the door or you may find yourself having to do so. It’s likely she will be very upset but you will have to deal with that and move on. Whilst you may intend to remain friends it probably won’t work out that way in the long run.

I hope you can find a way to gently and kindly move on OP

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

"Have you considered lying to her and saying you will be exclusive ?

Solution to a problem.

But it’s not a solution! Moral and compass? She deserves a little respect if nothing else. Why lie and create what could become a very uncomfortable situation

Lying is NOT the solution

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I try to avoid them. I’ve had them before and I’ve ended up jealous because I like them more than that. I’ve had them where they’ve also felt jealous because they want more. I have people on here I have met more than once but I keep the contact pretty minimal in between meets to keep emotional distance and avoid any build up of expectations of exclusivity and demands of my time.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Not got one but if I did would b happy to share! Been to a couple of clubs there didn't seem to b much sharing though the couples seemed to stick together apart from one couple which I found strange x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I never used to give a shit! I just used to think well at least I'm getting a rest

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/08/22 11:09:36]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Me... And I don't mind if I don't know but don't really want to hear about it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that's the best option. She's being unreasonable. If she doesn't like what you do she shouldn't continue on with you. You don't owe her anything. She's a huge red flag, demanding this of you. And even worse is that's she is happy to see others.

I'm very much like Nora, I don't want to meet anyone who is meeting others at the same time. I wouldn't ever place rules down and expect him to do as I want though. I'd want honesty so I could find someone else I'm more compatible with.

Good luck!

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By *erfectman122Man
over a year ago

from somewhere nice

"If you want them all to yourself isn't that slipping into relationship territory rather than just friends with benefits ?"

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By *illyv OP Man
over a year ago

bexleyheath

Update so i have messaged her and asked if we can have a chat tonight so once again i will tell her i dont want nothing serious and i dont think we can carry on being friends with benefits but would like to stay pals with her lets hope she understands

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As long as she uses protection I don’t mind

No offence but what business is it of yours if she does or not? She is just a friend who lets you fuck her shes not your girlfriend. No hate meant, just asking the question?

No offence taken

We don’t use protection, so I’d like to know we are both being responsible with other partners for each other’s safety "

Thats fair enough but surely you should use protetion so you both can keep safe when with others. Sounds strange that you both get unprotected yet others dont? Just how i see it as your fwb is no better or less than the other fwb you both have

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"As long as she uses protection I don’t mind

No offence but what business is it of yours if she does or not? She is just a friend who lets you fuck her shes not your girlfriend. No hate meant, just asking the question?

No offence taken

We don’t use protection, so I’d like to know we are both being responsible with other partners for each other’s safety

We’ve been fwb for a long time so we’ve progressed to no protection because we prefer that and have built a level of trust

I’d never expect a new fwb to do that because I’d be using protection with her until we’ve reached a level of trust

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Update so i have messaged her and asked if we can have a chat tonight so once again i will tell her i dont want nothing serious and i dont think we can carry on being friends with benefits but would like to stay pals with her lets hope she understands "

I believe you're doing the right thing, regardless of the outcome.

Though don't say that after sex

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lol. Ignorance truly is bliss atimes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you considered lying to her and saying you will be exclusive ?"

Just lie to her! None of her business who you fuck. She's fucking around - so can you OP.

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By *rispyDuckMan
over a year ago

Chinese Takeaway near you

I got 3 friends with benefits haha

but took a while to get here!

They all got clingy at 1 point and thought of ending the benefits part of arrangement.

But will clear communication we got there eventually and all is well now

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By *rispyDuckMan
over a year ago

Chinese Takeaway near you

Good luck with the chat OP if it goes go well be prepared to cut the benefits or even walk away!

don't settle for a situation you not happy/comfortable with. Remember there is 'plenty more fish in the sea'

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By *lexV16Man
over a year ago

Welling

Good Luck OP, hope it’ll work out for you.

I was in exactly the same situation. FEB was jealous of me seeing others yet was on Tinder herself. Stated didn’t want relationship yet was behaving like gf. I ended up losing a friend for good unfortunately.

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By *lderflower_AppleWoman
over a year ago

Basingstoke

I enjoy hearing that my FWB is meeting, and he likes to know I am too... adds a bit of extra spice when we get together.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

I do and no jealousy at all .

To be honest I think FWB and poly are quite interchangeable for me, I have feelings for my friends regardless of whether we have sex or not , that’s why they are friends, but I do have FB too that are like friends without any feelings but occasional sex.

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

Good luck!

Hello LBC

In this environment how would you know if they were seeing someone else? I don’t think an Fwb arrangement is ever exclusive

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have a cracking fwb and we have the greatest time exploring our boundaries but I have always told her that I wouldn't put her off if she found something that tempted her......I mean I'd be gutted but it would make me happy knowing that she was enjoying herself and meeting her needs. She has always said the same to me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good luck!

Hello LBC

In this environment how would you know if they were seeing someone else? I don’t think an Fwb arrangement is ever exclusive "

Hello lovely!

Well I wouldn't ever arrange an intimate meet without getting to know and building a connection with someone first, so by that point I'd know if they planned to meet others.

I know it's unreasonable to want someone to yourself when you're not committed but I can't stand the thought of being someone thrown in with loads of other options. Casual quick sex with no connection isn't for me.

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

I have an amazing FWB and everything we do is based on trust.

A few years ago a woman on here suggested we became FWB's but she had terms and conditions.

I had to agree to her meeting her two other FWB's whenever she wished but I had to be exclusive to her.

I told her I wasn't interested in an arrangement like that and the resulting drama caused me to leave the site.

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By *heonix_flamesWoman
over a year ago

Midlands

"I do and no I'm not even in the slightest bit jealous. I enjoy hearing About their exploits. "

This

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only one I had, blocked me because I now drive a Ford Fiesta !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The only one I had, blocked me because I now drive a Ford Fiesta ! "

She sounds like a bitch! Have you tried driving a lorry that is built like Harold's dick instead?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The only one I had, blocked me because I now drive a Ford Fiesta ! "

DO NOT fall for this.

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By *entleman JayMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

I’ve had them in the past and would love them again.

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By *entleman JayMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

"If you want them all to yourself isn't that slipping into relationship territory rather than just friends with benefits ?"

This.

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By *entleman JayMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

Wow. So much going on there.

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By *parkle1974Woman
over a year ago

Leeds

I've always had great friendship/relationship with my FWB's. What they do when we are not enjoying time together is none of my business x

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By *entleman JayMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

"Went from being once every couple weeks to couple nights aweek "

Couple of nights a week is a relationship I’m my eyes.

I think you have your wires crossed.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"Went from being once every couple weeks to couple nights aweek

Couple of nights a week is a relationship I’m my eyes.

I think you have your wires crossed. "

How? A proper relationship to me is being involved in my every day life, meeting my kids, coming to dinner at my parents, going on holiday. Something I’m not and will never be looking for.

A FWB is to have fun in the bubble, including other things as well as sex but it doesn’t cross into my real life.

I guess it depends on people’s definitions of it.

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By *eardyBikerMan
over a year ago

nr stonehaven

Have what I would consider a couple of friends with benefits..

Agree with others , keeping to themselves isn't really cricket...plus sharing stories is fun

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By *rispyDuckMan
over a year ago

Chinese Takeaway near you

Am I the only one waiting for OP's chat with FB update

lol

Rooting for you fella

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By *mily36CWoman
over a year ago

Bedford... (or anywhere beginning with B..!?)

"Does ‘ cake and eat it’ spring to mind

Only if it's carrot cake

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does ‘ cake and eat it’ spring to mind

Only if it's carrot cake

Only if there’s no cake.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Am I the only one waiting for OP's chat with FB update

lol

Rooting for you fella

Yep

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By *illyv OP Man
over a year ago

bexleyheath

So update time after having a long chat it turns out she had started getting feeling for me and all the tinder dates was to try stop her falling for me witch she says didnt help just made her want me more.. so we have agreed to stop fucking each other and have some time apart as i dont want a relationship right now and agreed to meet up in couple weeks as just friends for a catch up chat.. not going to lie we had one last bit of naughty fun witch im now thinking might have given her the wrong idea

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By *urvySub87Woman
over a year ago

Near Wellingborough

"So update time after having a long chat it turns out she had started getting feeling for me and all the tinder dates was to try stop her falling for me witch she says didnt help just made her want me more.. so we have agreed to stop fucking each other and have some time apart as i dont want a relationship right now and agreed to meet up in couple weeks as just friends for a catch up chat.. not going to lie we had one last bit of naughty fun witch im now thinking might have given her the wrong idea "

Maybe shouldn't of had one for the road

Feelings are a nuisance to deal with at the best of times. I'd personally give yourselves a few months break rather than a couple of weeks. Let her have the time to get over you properly and figure out if you can be just friends

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Everytime I've done the friends with benefits thing they have always fallen in live with me, it starts off with the whole this is fine thing and then progresses to the whole "I can't do this I'm in love with you" bit and then I feel really shit like I've done something wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have exactly this situation now. Whilst I know its the best thing for her, it still hurts. All that time we used to spend together has now been cut short, and I know she's regularly off with other guys, mainly for socials, sometimes more. I know its wrong of me but it hurts. I wished Id never shown her Fab.

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By *ust me 999Man
over a year ago

near you

"If you want them all to yourself isn't that slipping into relationship territory rather than just friends with benefits ?"

Absolutely it is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let’s take a break for a few week…… and you couldn’t last taking a break for a few minutes.

How do you end up having a bit of naughty fun?

Goodbye sex and kisses always leave the wrong impression.

I’m not a relationship councillor …

*Narrator - Thank goodness!

… but if feelings have developed when all you had was supposedly just a sexual relationship and neither one of you can get that right, having sex to say let’s take a break wasn’t the best move for you both.

Just my opinion.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

The old “I was only letting loads of lads from tinder smash my back ends in because I love you” schtick

Maybe I’m cynical, but I call bs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The old “I was only letting loads of lads from tinder smash my back ends in because I love you” schtick

Maybe I’m cynical, but I call bs "

it’s easy to forget someone’s name when there’s so many others to remember

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tbf it sounds toxic for both of you. She confessed she that she was falling for you, you had sex with her and told her you're meet in a few weeks....breadcrumbing, you've given her hope and not been clear with your words or actions.

Imagine if she came on Fab with her version of the scenario! You'd be slaughtered.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oooo big hiccup there.

If she's developing feelings, you're not.

That's naughty.

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By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Every time I see a tale like this, I wonder why people continue to see others regularly when they've been explicitly told 'now don't you dare develop feelings towards me cos it won't be reciprocated '

I think it shows complete disregard from the outset

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let’s take a break for a few week…… and you couldn’t last taking a break for a few minutes.

How do you end up having a bit of naughty fun?

Goodbye sex and kisses always leave the wrong impression.

I’m not a relationship councillor …

*Narrator - Thank goodness!

Just my opinion. "

Fair point well made.

Keeps her coming back for more. He gets the sex but can say, "I told you, no relationship!"

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By *ewhorizonsCouple
over a year ago

Leicestershire

Depends how fit she is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah, so you'll be seeing her again by the end of the week.

Good luck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Situationaships seem to be the new thing now... But having fun with someone on a regular basis is bound to create feelings. Unless your a grey rock...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Be kind and end it.

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By *ust me 999Man
over a year ago

near you

Still looking for one within 20 miles radius

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Situationaships seem to be the new thing now... But having fun with someone on a regular basis is bound to create feelings. Unless your a grey rock...

A very quick Google of Situationship would put anyone with an ounce of self-preservation off them for life

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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago

South Wales

If I have a FWB and they see other folk I’d rather not know the details.

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By *iscean_dreamMan
over a year ago

Llanelli

Fwb means no exclusivity, if they want you to themselves or you want them to yourself then that becomes a relationship. If there is any jealousy it's time to stop sleeping together.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If I have a FWB and they see other folk I’d rather not know the details. "

I am often turned off a person by the most random things.

It's been an issue in the past for me seeing the who/how/what of past veris for someone(s) I'm interested in or knowing current 'also-rans'. It can spoil a good thing if you're not careful.

But I'm also too curious for words and love talking about sex and other things (*massive spoiler there, I know) so I just have to walk a fine line at my own risk

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do and no I'm not even in the slightest bit jealous. I enjoy hearing About their exploits. "

Exactly this ….as long as protection is used I’m cool

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If I have a FWB and they see other folk I’d rather not know the details. "

I love hearing the details

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

Yep . Best of both worlds that way

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By *il sub princessWoman
over a year ago

West Midlands

Let her read this thread, she'll soon back off

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