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"So what should happen after the latest behaviour from the so called fans? Club deducted points? Fined? No home fans for several matches? Loss of TV rights? Any other suggestions?" Punish the individuals for me. Use cctv, give fans rewards for shopping others, ban the sections involved ie block 26 or what ever to send a signal through. There were many Hammers fans who were disgusted too its the culprits than need to be made pay. | |||
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"So what should happen after the latest behaviour from the so called fans? Club deducted points? Fined? No home fans for several matches? Loss of TV rights? Any other suggestions?" All of the above, but they'll probably get a slap on the wrist and a pathetic fine, if the FA are serious about stamping racism out they need to smash clubs who are racist, and make an example out of them. What they're doing now clearly isn't working, as it seems to be the main headline on front and back pages every couple of weeks | |||
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"does it really matter what happens ? spurs west ham will always be like that, like all football rivalry, its never guna stop as far as chanting and piss taking goes lol, what happened sat has prob been forgotten by now and the yids and icf our looking forward to this wkends games !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "So that makes singing "Hitler is coming for you!" acceptable then does it? Very sad! | |||
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"these disagreements the forum is having about dont say this, shouldnt say that etc dosnt matter one bit,its been in football for years and it will be in football for years to come it will never go away,its not right in my eyes but racism in football will never go away "Just heard on the news that one of the fans has been caught and he's a season ticket holder, he's now been banned for life by his club. Do you think he now thinks it was worth chanting or is he just a racist who couldn't give a shit? More arrests to follow. I'm a little surprised by some of the views that seem to think that because apparently it's been around for years and you'll never get rid of it that some how it makes it ok.... | |||
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"More arrests to follow. I'm a little surprised by some of the views that seem to think that because apparently it's been around for years and you'll never get rid of it that some how it makes it ok.... " You (the authorities) won't get away with it. It's been tried here in Scotland with bampot legislation and supposedly punitive penalties and it hasn't made a baw-hairs worth of difference. | |||
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"I don't do football but it's almost impossible to ignore that fact that just about all (alleged) supporters whose team is getting seriously humped seek to re-calculate the result by dragging the behaviour of others into the events of the 90 minutes." | |||
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".. but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts." Correction: we do NOT live in a racist country, we live in a country that has racism in it, like every other country does. | |||
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"does it really matter what happens ? spurs west ham will always be like that, like all football rivalry, its never guna stop as far as chanting and piss taking goes lol, what happened sat has prob been forgotten by now and the yids and icf our looking forward to this wkends games !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So that makes singing "Hitler is coming for you!" acceptable then does it?
Very sad!
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".. but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Correction: we do NOT live in a racist country, we live in a country that has racism in it, like every other country does." we live in a country where racism is the accepted norm. Personally, I don't have any racist friends, but I experience more people who are racist on a day to day basis than people who are not racist. | |||
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".. but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Correction: we do NOT live in a racist country, we live in a country that has racism in it, like every other country does. we live in a country where racism is the accepted norm. Personally, I don't have any racist friends, but I experience more people who are racist on a day to day basis than people who are not racist." I'm sorry but you're wrong again. Racism isn't an accepted norm, it's clamped down heavily upon (but not by the FA) when someone is stupid enough to be outwardly racist. Everyone holds some form of bigotry, it's human nature to feel repelled by those we find unsavoury, or make us feel uncomfortable, and when it happens we use language to make our feelings known. Racism is insipid in the way racists use it to differentiate against someone based purely on their race. A black man doesn't make me feel threatened or uncomfortable, but a black man with a knife at 2am on a dark street does in much the same as as anyone with a knife at 2am on a dark street does. That's not racism. | |||
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"Why have the media only recently started reporting about offensive chanting in the past couple of years? The hissing of gas taps at Spurs has been going on for decades, as has the "Spurs are on their way to Belsen" chant. Likewise, a massive number of Man City, Liverpool and Leeds fans have been glorifying the Munich air disaster since way before I started going matches (early 80s). The media hasn't been bothered about it before. If West Ham are punished for this, then we should see pretty much every team in the country punished before the season's out because I can't think of a single team's fans who don't do it. Also, where do you draw the line? Who decides which chants are offensive and which are just banter? I agree racist chanting is wrong and I'd never do it, but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Odd really, as the point of songs and chants is really supposed to be to spur your team on to victory. " As awful as the Munich disaster was and everybody would agree it cannot be seen in the same light as singing about a person who was responsible for genocide! And as for where do you stop well you don't! If it takes other fans reporting it and clubs being penalised for not dealing with by giving life bans to those individuals responsible then that's what must happen. If these fans are as passionate as some claim they won't want to see their club loose points, after all they can for financial irregularities. How many here have found the fines for advertising being greater than those for racism deplorable? | |||
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".. but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Correction: we do NOT live in a racist country, we live in a country that has racism in it, like every other country does. we live in a country where racism is the accepted norm. Personally, I don't have any racist friends, but I experience more people who are racist on a day to day basis than people who are not racist. I'm sorry but you're wrong again. Racism isn't an accepted norm, it's clamped down heavily upon (but not by the FA) when someone is stupid enough to be outwardly racist. Everyone holds some form of bigotry, it's human nature to feel repelled by those we find unsavoury, or make us feel uncomfortable, and when it happens we use language to make our feelings known. Racism is insipid in the way racists use it to differentiate against someone based purely on their race. A black man doesn't make me feel threatened or uncomfortable, but a black man with a knife at 2am on a dark street does in much the same as as anyone with a knife at 2am on a dark street does. That's not racism." I wasn't referring to people with knives at 2am. I was referring to the fact that there are more people in this country that descriminate against other people because of their race than people who do not descriminate for that reason. | |||
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".. but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Correction: we do NOT live in a racist country, we live in a country that has racism in it, like every other country does. we live in a country where racism is the accepted norm. Personally, I don't have any racist friends, but I experience more people who are racist on a day to day basis than people who are not racist." Couldn't agree less, to be honest...unless it's just the area I come from ? Rarely come across racism, be it hardened or casual. | |||
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" As awful as the Munich disaster was and everybody would agree it cannot be seen in the same light as singing about a person who was responsible for genocide! " It's celebrating the deaths of young men. it's equally as despicable. anyway, my point was that the media have only just showed an interest in this, when it's been going on for decades (both the munich chants and the hitler ones, amongst others)... | |||
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"first off i'm NOT saying anything that happened was ok but it's funny only one person has said about the role of the spurs fans in this as i understand it, what was said was in response to the spurs yid army chant does anybody think they had a role to play in this as it was said weeks ago that they shouldn't aloud to chant it anymore " I suggest you report to the police if you believe the spurs fans were using racist chanting. Simple really, but remember the hammers chanting is recorded. If it transpires the spurs fans were also doing the same then the same applies to them. Again simple. So we can expect to see a complaint can we? | |||
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".. but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Correction: we do NOT live in a racist country, we live in a country that has racism in it, like every other country does. we live in a country where racism is the accepted norm. Personally, I don't have any racist friends, but I experience more people who are racist on a day to day basis than people who are not racist. Couldn't agree less, to be honest...unless it's just the area I come from ? Rarely come across racism, be it hardened or casual." I have friends from the leicester area who have been shocked by the racism in yorkshire when they've come to visit, so yes, I think it's mostly to do with the area where you live. | |||
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".. but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Correction: we do NOT live in a racist country, we live in a country that has racism in it, like every other country does. we live in a country where racism is the accepted norm. Personally, I don't have any racist friends, but I experience more people who are racist on a day to day basis than people who are not racist. Couldn't agree less, to be honest...unless it's just the area I come from ? Rarely come across racism, be it hardened or casual. I have friends from the leicester area who have been shocked by the racism in yorkshire when they've come to visit, so yes, I think it's mostly to do with the area where you live." Glad we've cleared that up then 
That's tripe eating, flat cap wearing, whippet racers for you | |||
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" As awful as the Munich disaster was and everybody would agree it cannot be seen in the same light as singing about a person who was responsible for genocide! It's celebrating the deaths of young men. it's equally as despicable. anyway, my point was that the media have only just showed an interest in this, when it's been going on for decades (both the munich chants and the hitler ones, amongst others)... " Strange? Where does celebrating the deaths come in to it? Think perhaps you'd better stop now as you seem to be digging a deeper hole for yourself. Of course the media will take an interest as it is a hot topic and especially more so with what happened in the week and then this. Come on don't act so surprised! | |||
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"first off i'm NOT saying anything that happened was ok but it's funny only one person has said about the role of the spurs fans in this as i understand it, what was said was in response to the spurs yid army chant does anybody think they had a role to play in this as it was said weeks ago that they shouldn't aloud to chant it anymore I suggest you report to the police if you believe the spurs fans were using racist chanting. Simple really, but remember the hammers chanting is recorded. If it transpires the spurs fans were also doing the same then the same applies to them. Again simple. So we can expect to see a complaint can we?" lol it's not what i believe it's what has been talked about for weeks all over skysports news etc about the spurs chants and if or how they can stop it spurs were evan given a warning about there chants less then a month ago and i believe a complaint has already been made ok? | |||
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" As awful as the Munich disaster was and everybody would agree it cannot be seen in the same light as singing about a person who was responsible for genocide! It's celebrating the deaths of young men. it's equally as despicable. anyway, my point was that the media have only just showed an interest in this, when it's been going on for decades (both the munich chants and the hitler ones, amongst others)... Strange? Where does celebrating the deaths come in to it? Think perhaps you'd better stop now as you seem to be digging a deeper hole for yourself. " You don't think the Munich chants are celebrating the deaths of those players? Really? What exactly are they doing then? And I should stop what exactly? Disagreeing with you? Fine, if disagreeing with you is "digging a hole" then hand me the spade. | |||
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"'All that is necessary for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing' The majority of football supporters are neither racist or anti semitic ..but are we cowards? " No. Realists. Chanting on the terraces has been going on for decades but it isn't the same people chanting today that were chanting 40 years ago. Those people grew up and had families (ok, some of them may have). The people chanting now are a whole new generation and if racism is to be eradicated then that war has to be fought in the the infant school playground. Kids say what they see, and they band together when more of them see the same thing. When my daughter was 4 she saw a rather large woman in a supermarket and she commented, "Why is that black lady so fat?" I pointed out a rather large white woman and asked my daughter to describe her. She replied, "a fat woman." Was she being racist, or simply saying what she saw? Bearing in mind that in her mind the white woman didn't need to be described as white because my daughter is white herself and she'd already made that connection. To her young mind, it didn't need elaborating upon or emphasis. (please don't point out sizeism, she wasn't being sizeist either, she just said what she saw) | |||
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"Chant sung by Spurs fans ? "Sol, Sol, wherever you may be you're on the verge of lunacy and we don't give a f**k if you're hanging from a tree you're a Judas c**t with Hiv" " Correction - SOME Spurs fans. I am one and have never chanted it, or any other 'racist' chant, nor would I ever do so. Nor would a number of my friends who also support Spurs. By all means wield the brush, but please do not tar all of us with it. Thank you.  | |||
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"'All that is necessary for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing' The majority of football supporters are neither racist or anti semitic ..but are we cowards? No. Realists. Chanting on the terraces has been going on for decades but it isn't the same people chanting today that were chanting 40 years ago. Those people grew up and had families (ok, some of them may have). The people chanting now are a whole new generation and if racism is to be eradicated then that war has to be fought in the the infant school playground. Kids say what they see, and they band together when more of them see the same thing. When my daughter was 4 she saw a rather large woman in a supermarket and she commented, "Why is that black lady so fat?" I pointed out a rather large white woman and asked my daughter to describe her. She replied, "a fat woman." Was she being racist, or simply saying what she saw? Bearing in mind that in her mind the white woman didn't need to be described as white because my daughter is white herself and she'd already made that connection. To her young mind, it didn't need elaborating upon or emphasis. (please don't point out sizeism, she wasn't being sizeist either, she just said what she saw)" Realist?...Don't tell me you haven't been to a match and not felt uneasy and disgusted with what you have heard, and even more if you had your daughter with you!...we all have to look at ourselves in the mirror sometimes and be counted that's the reality.. ps as an aside that's a fine cock pic! | |||
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"Realist?...Don't tell me you haven't been to a match and not felt uneasy and disgusted with what you have heard, and even more if you had your daughter with you!...we all have to look at ourselves in the mirror sometimes and be counted that's the reality.. ps as an aside that's a fine cock pic!" Yes, I have taken her to matches in the past which is why I tend to duck out of taking her again when she asks to go. I really don't understand the mentality of grown men who need to hurl abuse, and spit if they're close enough, at opposing players and/or fans. What makes it even more remarkable is that when they're dragged into court for abusive language etc many of them turn out to be professional people, doctors, etc.. It's just a game and if I'm able to get passionate about it without resorting to wanting to kick someone's head just because they don't support the same team as me then everyone else should be able to do the same. p.s. tks for the compliment on me cock. (maybe footy fans should wave their cocks at each other - at the very least it'll make everyone laugh)  | |||
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"Chant sung by Spurs fans ? "Sol, Sol, wherever you may be you're on the verge of lunacy and we don't give a f**k if you're hanging from a tree you're a Judas c**t with Hiv" Correction - SOME Spurs fans. I am one and have never chanted it, or any other 'racist' chant, nor would I ever do so. Nor would a number of my friends who also support Spurs. By all means wield the brush, but please do not tar all of us with it. Thank you. "Not all West Ham fans sing about Hitler, not all United fans sing about Hillsborough, not all Leeds fans sing about Munich...ALL Wolves fans sing about West Brom but that's a different matter entirely !! Wasn't tarring anyone with the same brush, just pointing out the hypocrisy of Spurs fans crying to the media when all clubs have their share of mindless bigots. | |||
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".. but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Correction: we do NOT live in a racist country, we live in a country that has racism in it, like every other country does. we live in a country where racism is the accepted norm. Personally, I don't have any racist friends, but I experience more people who are racist on a day to day basis than people who are not racist. I'm sorry but you're wrong again. Racism isn't an accepted norm, it's clamped down heavily upon (but not by the FA) when someone is stupid enough to be outwardly racist. Everyone holds some form of bigotry, it's human nature to feel repelled by those we find unsavoury, or make us feel uncomfortable, and when it happens we use language to make our feelings known. Racism is insipid in the way racists use it to differentiate against someone based purely on their race. A black man doesn't make me feel threatened or uncomfortable, but a black man with a knife at 2am on a dark street does in much the same as as anyone with a knife at 2am on a dark street does. That's not racism. I wasn't referring to people with knives at 2am. I was referring to the fact that there are more people in this country that descriminate against other people because of their race than people who do not descriminate for that reason. " You seriously think that is the case? | |||
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"So what should happen after the latest behaviour from the so called fans? Club deducted points? Fined? No home fans for several matches? Loss of TV rights? Any other suggestions?" All of the above. At the moment what reason do the clubs have to tackle the issue? Ultimately it doesn't effect them at all. A few token life bans dished out by the clubs is not solving anything. If the clubs are penalised then they will have a real motive to stamp it out. Of course, it will never happen because that would require the FA to do something truly pro-active and let's be honest that is unlikely. | |||
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"http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/andrew-gold/spurs-tottenham_b_2134142.html Worth a look...as a spurs fan...this makes a lot of sense to me" Interesting read! | |||
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" As awful as the Munich disaster was and everybody would agree it cannot be seen in the same light as singing about a person who was responsible for genocide! It's celebrating the deaths of young men. it's equally as despicable. anyway, my point was that the media have only just showed an interest in this, when it's been going on for decades (both the munich chants and the hitler ones, amongst others)... Strange? Where does celebrating the deaths come in to it? Think perhaps you'd better stop now as you seem to be digging a deeper hole for yourself. You don't think the Munich chants are celebrating the deaths of those players? Really? What exactly are they doing then? And I should stop what exactly? Disagreeing with you? Fine, if disagreeing with you is "digging a hole" then hand me the spade. " What does the word 'celebration' mean to you? For me it's something you do that is a positive not a negative. I would have thought that most people would consider singing about Hitler or making hissing sounds as extremely negative... Singing about something that affected and offends a whole race is the issue. Yes It's despicable to chant about such things as the Munich or Hillsborough disasters and just re-enforces the belief that football is followed by a minority of idiots that will and do spoil for everyone else. The game was doing its best to bring families back and I just wonder how many off these people would be happy for their kids to here that kind if chanting if they were at say Alton Towers for the day? | |||
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"nothing should happen. If it's ok for the Spurs fans to shout Yid army and for an England Captain to call another player a black xxxx then why should a club be punished. " Because it'll be pick on west ham again !! The FA never done fook all the other week when all the shut kicked off in the England under 21 match ... | |||
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" The FA never done fook all the other week when all the shut kicked off in the England under 21 match ..." not their jurisdiction... Uefa are the governing body | |||
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"these disagreements the forum is having about dont say this, shouldnt say that etc dosnt matter one bit,its been in football for years and it will be in football for years to come it will never go away,its not right in my eyes but racism in football will never go away "that does'nt mean the wider society should not challenge and attempt to educate the ignorant.. if you take that view then your accepting just because something is the 'norm' it should stay...?? seatbelt legislation etc is one example.. | |||
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" The FA never done fook all the other week when all the shut kicked off in the England under 21 match ... not their jurisdiction... Uefa are the governing body" What i mean is the FA won't be on the case of Uefa over what happened ...but you can bet that they will make an example this time just because its West Ham.The press are already over dramatising it into something and nothing | |||
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"What's even more ridiculous is that west ham currently have Yossi benayoun playing for them! Really shows the intelligence of some " And that stopped many fans over the years who have black players in their team,doing monkey chants ? No | |||
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" The FA never done fook all the other week when all the shut kicked off in the England under 21 match ... not their jurisdiction... Uefa are the governing body What i mean is the FA won't be on the case of Uefa over what happened ...but you can bet that they will make an example this time just because its West Ham.The press are already over dramatising it into something and nothing " The FA definitely are on the case with UEFA over what happened to our U21 team. This has nothing to do with whether it's West Ham or not. My opinion is that the FA should now lay down exactly what punitive measures it will take in the future against the clubs if this behavior is not stamped out. Derisory fines are meaningless, a sanction that effects the club would focus everyones mind and wipe out this behavior in a very short timescale. | |||
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"What's even more ridiculous is that west ham currently have Yossi benayoun playing for them! Really shows the intelligence of some And that stopped many fans over the years who have black players in their team,doing monkey chants ? No " Yes it has. | |||
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"Chant sung by Spurs fans ? "Sol, Sol, wherever you may be you're on the verge of lunacy and we don't give a f**k if you're hanging from a tree you're a Judas c**t with Hiv" Correction - SOME Spurs fans. I am one and have never chanted it, or any other 'racist' chant, nor would I ever do so. Nor would a number of my friends who also support Spurs. By all means wield the brush, but please do not tar all of us with it. Thank you. "as a spurs fan do you or your friends use the yid army chant? do you think the chant had a role to play in what happened? (once again not say right or wrong just asking a question) | |||
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"Chant sung by Spurs fans ? "Sol, Sol, wherever you may be you're on the verge of lunacy and we don't give a f**k if you're hanging from a tree you're a Judas c**t with Hiv" Correction - SOME Spurs fans. I am one and have never chanted it, or any other 'racist' chant, nor would I ever do so. Nor would a number of my friends who also support Spurs. By all means wield the brush, but please do not tar all of us with it. Thank you.
as a spurs fan do you or your friends use the yid army chant?
do you think the chant had a role to play in what happened?
(once again not say right or wrong just asking a question)"No, I haven't and I don't believe my friends have (to my knowledge), but I don't see that as pertinent to a 'racist' or not discussion. Think about who the chant is describing - the Spurs fans themselves. Also the point about whether it was a contributory factor - the chant has been going for a while. Not been a cause of trouble before, but that said, maybe in this case it was. All said and done, the only people that know are the brain donors who start trouble.  | |||
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"Chant sung by Spurs fans ? "Sol, Sol, wherever you may be you're on the verge of lunacy and we don't give a f**k if you're hanging from a tree you're a Judas c**t with Hiv" Correction - SOME Spurs fans. I am one and have never chanted it, or any other 'racist' chant, nor would I ever do so. Nor would a number of my friends who also support Spurs. By all means wield the brush, but please do not tar all of us with it. Thank you.
as a spurs fan do you or your friends use the yid army chant?
do you think the chant had a role to play in what happened?
(once again not say right or wrong just asking a question)
No, I haven't and I don't believe my friends have (to my knowledge), but I don't see that as pertinent to a 'racist' or not discussion.
Think about who the chant is describing - the Spurs fans themselves.
Also the point about whether it was a contributory factor - the chant has been going for a while. Not been a cause of trouble before, but that said, maybe in this case it was.
All said and done, the only people that know are the brain donors who start trouble.
"A really interesting view from a spurs fan i'm just going on the debate that has been going on ever since spurs were issued a warning over using the chant and warned that it may lead to some sort of trouble which has now happened | |||
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"think its time to stop being outraged; at evrything and grow up. sticks and stones and all that; the police have to deal with trivial stuff like this takes them off the streets and we wonder why no one gets done for theft and violence being going on for years and evry club does it" | |||
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"think its time to stop being outraged; at evrything and grow up. sticks and stones and all that; the police have to deal with trivial stuff like this takes them off the streets and we wonder why no one gets done for theft and violence being going on for years and evry club does it" Have to agree this whole racism thing is getting beyond a joke now,and to be honest boring.. Its a football match nobody was killed or injured,it was just football banter the same football banter thats been going on for years .. | |||
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Its ok for players to rape, take drugs, drink drive, knock people over, get pissed, beat their WAGS up etc etc..but if a supporters dares make a wanker sign or shouts 'cunt' at the ref its a disgrace..(and a ban)
Nothing will happen to West Ham, they are the FA's golden boys, remember the country still owes them a massive debt for winning the world cup 48 years ago!
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" Have to agree this whole racism thing is getting beyond a joke now,and to be honest boring.. Its a football match nobody was killed or injured,it was just football banter the same football banter thats been going on for years .." what do you find 'boring'.. the fact that people still cant go to attend a game of football without acting like morons.. or..? as for 'banter'..its a bit beyond that tbh.. | |||
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Oh for the humourless souls....I really was only joking, no offence intended.. | |||
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"It is going to be very interesting to see how the FA punish themselves the next time England play Germany,or,have they already banned the singing of the dam busters theme whilst prancing around with outstretched arms? "
Or when British supporters go on the rampage somewhere..
Its bollocks penalising the clubs..thats like suing the sex pistols because a load of their fans smashed a bus stop up. | |||
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"Why have the media only recently started reporting about offensive chanting in the past couple of years? The hissing of gas taps at Spurs has been going on for decades, as has the "Spurs are on their way to Belsen" chant. Likewise, a massive number of Man City, Liverpool and Leeds fans have been glorifying the Munich air disaster since way before I started going matches (early 80s). The media hasn't been bothered about it before. If West Ham are punished for this, then we should see pretty much every team in the country punished before the season's out because I can't think of a single team's fans who don't do it. Also, where do you draw the line? Who decides which chants are offensive and which are just banter? I agree racist chanting is wrong and I'd never do it, but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Odd really, as the point of songs and chants is really supposed to be to spur your team on to victory. " | |||
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"Why have the media only recently started reporting about offensive chanting in the past couple of years? The hissing of gas taps at Spurs has been going on for decades, as has the "Spurs are on their way to Belsen" chant. Likewise, a massive number of Man City, Liverpool and Leeds fans have been glorifying the Munich air disaster since way before I started going matches (early 80s). The media hasn't been bothered about it before. If West Ham are punished for this, then we should see pretty much every team in the country punished before the season's out because I can't think of a single team's fans who don't do it. Also, where do you draw the line? Who decides which chants are offensive and which are just banter? I agree racist chanting is wrong and I'd never do it, but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Odd really, as the point of songs and chants is really supposed to be to spur your team on to victory. " | |||
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".. but we live in a racist country and fans will always try to find an angle to wind up their counterparts. Correction: we do NOT live in a racist country, we live in a country that has racism in it, like every other country does. we live in a country where racism is the accepted norm. Personally, I don't have any racist friends, but I experience more people who are racist on a day to day basis than people who are not racist. I'm sorry but you're wrong again. Racism isn't an accepted norm, it's clamped down heavily upon (but not by the FA) when someone is stupid enough to be outwardly racist. Everyone holds some form of bigotry, it's human nature to feel repelled by those we find unsavoury, or make us feel uncomfortable, and when it happens we use language to make our feelings known. Racism is insipid in the way racists use it to differentiate against someone based purely on their race. A black man doesn't make me feel threatened or uncomfortable, but a black man with a knife at 2am on a dark street does in much the same as as anyone with a knife at 2am on a dark street does. That's not racism." | |||
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"think its time to stop being outraged; at evrything and grow up. sticks and stones and all that; the police have to deal with trivial stuff like this takes them off the streets and we wonder why no one gets done for theft and violence being going on for years and evry club does it" | |||
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"Ban all referees from wearing black, because of its facist overtones, make them wear gay friendly pink with rainbow coloured boots, insist they dye their hair grey so ginger people dont feel excluded, ensure that they are all 25 stone, so they dont appear elitist to fat people, better still insist at least 2 match officials are butch lesbians, half time music must include at least 3 Bangra classics..and all teams must include 1 Jew, 1 Atheist, 2 black players, 3 Asians, a illegal immigrant, a blind man, a woman, and a paraplegic dwarf goalkeeper. All supporters must agree to undertake ethnic awareness training and conform to a veil of silence (a bit like Arsenal supporters do for 90 minutes!) ;-) have a enhanced CRB check done every three years, and not turn up in trainers or jeans that are not pressed at the seams... That should cover it...
Oh for the humourless souls....I really was only joking, no offence intended.. " | |||
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" Its bollocks penalising the clubs..thats like suing the sex pistols because a load of their fans smashed a bus stop up." When the LIBOR scandal hit, the authorities fined the first bank £290 million, they didn't spend time trying to round up the individuals. A serious sanction for the bank made sure it would deal properly with the individuals but most importantly it would be more proactive in trying to stop it from happening again. If Football is serious about addressing this issue it needs to act in a way that forces clubs to take more proactive responsibility for it's supporters. | |||
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"think its time to stop being outraged; at evrything and grow up. sticks and stones and all that; the police have to deal with trivial stuff like this takes them off the streets and we wonder why no one gets done for theft and violence being going on for years and evry club does it" Are you saying that racism is acceptable because it has been going on for years, and if people do not accept it then it is a sign of immaturity? Is that your view of everything that is offensive or just racism? | |||
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"think its time to stop being outraged; at evrything and grow up. sticks and stones and all that; the police have to deal with trivial stuff like this takes them off the streets and we wonder why no one gets done for theft and violence being going on for years and evry club does it Are you saying that racism is acceptable because it has been going on for years, and if people do not accept it then it is a sign of immaturity? Is that your view of everything that is offensive or just racism?" + | |||
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" Its bollocks penalising the clubs..thats like suing the sex pistols because a load of their fans smashed a bus stop up. When the LIBOR scandal hit, the authorities fined the first bank £290 million, they didn't spend time trying to round up the individuals. A serious sanction for the bank made sure it would deal properly with the individuals but most importantly it would be more proactive in trying to stop it from happening again. If Football is serious about addressing this issue it needs to act in a way that forces clubs to take more proactive responsibility for it's supporters. " How can clubs control what is said in the stands and why should they be punished ? Isn't the UK a democracy free speach and all that ? Like it or not there will always be racists in the world no matter what happens with football or any other sport. | |||
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" Have to agree this whole racism thing is getting beyond a joke now,and to be honest boring.. Its a football match nobody was killed or injured,it was just football banter the same football banter thats been going on for years .. what do you find 'boring'.. the fact that people still cant go to attend a game of football without acting like morons.. or..? as for 'banter'..its a bit beyond that tbh.. " Its boring because its been going on for years ,yet all of a sudden its big news all he time.. If its not the players its the fans and even recently officials are being accused. | |||
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" How can clubs control what is said in the stands and why should they be punished ? Isn't the UK a democracy free speach and all that ? Like it or not there will always be racists in the world no matter what happens with football or any other sport." Free speech?.....Section 18 of the Public Order act states it is an offence to use threatening/abusive/insulting words or behaviour or displaying written material with intent/likely to stir up racial hatred. The maximum punishment is 7 years imprisonment. Are you suggesting it is anyones democratic right because we live in the UK to break the law of the land? Please explain the point you're making. Yes there may always be racists in the world and to be completely honest I have no problem with that because I believe everyone should be entitled to their opinions and beliefs. What people hold in their own head or do in their own home is their business. I just don't want anyones racist opinions or views to have any effect on me or any other individual. Thankfully the law of the land agrees. | |||
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"I liv in a " free country " ppl r free 2 express their feelings?" Have you thought that through? | |||
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"If you deduct points from a team that in turn drops said team into a relegation battle then so called supporters of said team will think twice about doing it again and racist chants have not been going on for years ridiculing of other teams fans/players has been." Ask Clyde Best (a black player from the 60's) if racist chanting hasn't been going in for years. He used to get loads of abuse and most of it I'm afraid to say was when he played in the north east. | |||
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"This problem is not exclusive to West Ham fans and this is the problem everyone is quick to point out other clubs in the wrong but turn a blind eye if its their own club. The FA should draw up a tariff of sanctions and send them to all clubs in the Premiership and football league so everyone knows where they stand. Fines should be based on the clubs income 5% of matchday income 1st offence. 10% 2nd offence 3rd offence 25% after that deduct poins as well as the fine. Clubs would be forced to crack down on fans as the income seems to be the priority. Giving a multi million pound industry £10k fines is pointless." Great post. | |||
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"It's the clubs responsibility they admit the fans normally through membership schemes they know who these people are. They don't want to ban them its lost income. What hapens if trouble keeps happening in a pub or nightclub they lose their license. Is it the clubs fault? Or the people that go along causing the trouble. " As far as I'm aware there is a code of conduct that supporters are agreeing to when you purchase your ticket at least there is at the Etihad. I'd be very surprised if its not the same at other grounds | |||
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" Firstly I would like to point out that most public racist behavior is now illegal in this country. Teasing and name calling when it is connected to a disaster such as Munich or Hillsborough, although extremely distasteful, is not. " Im sure that the members of the law enforcement profession on here will correct if this is wrong but.........Words or behaviour likely to cause harassment distress or alarm is an offence under Sect 5 of Public Order Act 1986 where a person can be arrested after a warning has been given. The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 removed the need for a warning to be given | |||
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"Is less that 1% of west ham fans that are bringing the club down. Now if the so called 99% real fans shopped them this would sort it out. But will they na they won't because they are just as bad as them" In fairness, no they're not just as bad. It is usually a small minority. | |||
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"I do not understand the mentality of soccer fans not all just the morons I can't do with soccer as it is. In both codes of rugby fans mix with rarely any trouble because in my view seeing as the sggression is out on pitch fans do not feel need to be twats. As other posters say hit those responsible as how on earth can any club stop folk chanting its mission impossible. " FOOTBALL!!! | |||
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"most interesting thing from these sort of discussions is that you can clearly tell the difference in comments from real football fans and someone that has just seen this story on the news or read a newspaper lately and "just has to have there say" " I think you should qualify what it is you're trying to say. | |||
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"most interesting thing from these sort of discussions is that you can clearly tell the difference in comments from real football fans and someone that has just seen this story on the news or read a newspaper lately and "just has to have there say" I think you should qualify what it is you're trying to say." self explanatory | |||
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"most interesting thing from these sort of discussions is that you can clearly tell the difference in comments from real football fans and someone that has just seen this story on the news or read a newspaper lately and "just has to have there say" " I think it is also quite evident that when Rugby fans talk about football how they try and promote rugby players as gentlemen and rugby followers as a class above football supporters. I listen to TalkSport quite a lot and there was a discussion on there the other day about how football refs blow up at the slightest infringement and players roll around in feigned agony and in contrast rugby players give each other a slap and then play on. The reality is that there arefar more serious injuries inflicted by rugby players on each other than footballers, but you have to consider that by it's very nature rugby is a full contact sport and football is a semi-contact sport. To play rugby you need to be sturdy and strong but football requires speed and agility and a footballer the size and bulk of a typical prop forward would find himself being run rings around by his smaller, faster counterparts. It would be like putting a 4x4 up against a Ferrari, that is, the 4x4 is built for endurance and the Ferrari for performance. There is one crossover I wish Fifa would make from Rugby though, and that is the sin bin. Footballers would soon find themselves on the end of a sever tongue lashing from fans and their clubs if they were off pitch for 5 mins and their team conceded a goal. Likewise, with feigned injuries, a mandatory 5 mins off the pitch (to recover you see), would soon make these players get their asses off the floor a lot faster. | |||
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"I first thought the sin bin would be a good idea but then I realised how abused it will get a defender under pressure with 5 min left on clock will have no qualms in taking a forward out in order to stop an attack and happily take the 4 mins on the wireline " That's not quite the same thing as it would probably be a straight red and put him out for the next three matches. | |||
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"does it really matter what happens ? spurs west ham will always be like that, like all football rivalry, its never guna stop as far as chanting and piss taking goes lol, what happened sat has prob been forgotten by now and the yids and icf our looking forward to this wkends games !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So that makes singing "Hitler is coming for you!" acceptable then does it?
Very sad!
"its just a joke, hitler is dead and was defeated. | |||
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"most interesting thing from these sort of discussions is that you can clearly tell the difference in comments from real football fans and someone that has just seen this story on the news or read a newspaper lately and "just has to have there say" I think you should qualify what it is you're trying to say. self explanatory "Ok then explain the difference between real football fans and foot ball fans and what bearing it has on being disgusted by comments referring to someone who caused genocide being sung at a sporting event | |||
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"most interesting thing from these sort of discussions is that you can clearly tell the difference in comments from real football fans and someone that has just seen this story on the news or read a newspaper lately and "just has to have there say" I think it is also quite evident that when Rugby fans talk about football how they try and promote rugby players as gentlemen and rugby followers as a class above football supporters. I listen to TalkSport quite a lot and there was a discussion on there the other day about how football refs blow up at the slightest infringement and players roll around in feigned agony and in contrast rugby players give each other a slap and then play on. The reality is that there arefar more serious injuries inflicted by rugby players on each other than footballers, but you have to consider that by it's very nature rugby is a full contact sport and football is a semi-contact sport. To play rugby you need to be sturdy and strong but football requires speed and agility and a footballer the size and bulk of a typical prop forward would find himself being run rings around by his smaller, faster counterparts. It would be like putting a 4x4 up against a Ferrari, that is, the 4x4 is built for endurance and the Ferrari for performance. There is one crossover I wish Fifa would make from Rugby though, and that is the sin bin. Footballers would soon find themselves on the end of a sever tongue lashing from fans and their clubs if they were off pitch for 5 mins and their team conceded a goal. Likewise, with feigned injuries, a mandatory 5 mins off the pitch (to recover you see), would soon make these players get their asses off the floor a lot faster." Whilst I agree with some of your comments re build of players and running rungs around you need to remember there are some exceptions: we should include Lomu, Not the fastest player perhaps (when compared to Habana etc I think....but could be wrong) but the impact he made as a result of his running was unprecedented. And, there is Rokocoko, Habana, Ngwenya, even Howlett was pretty fast, Cau Cau, Robinson.... Oh and Shane Williams. Some of these are faster than Bolt over 40m's and all the time they're running they have to consider some 17-20 stone behemoth is looking to take them out! Others will say rugby isn't as passionate as football, what utter tosh! You have to be passionate to the extreme to put you body on the line that way they do!! Like most other contact sports the violence is controlled in rugby and the refs are respected! When was the last time you heard of a rugby supporter being attacked in some foreign city? Sun bin great idea. Injury should not require player leaving the field to come back on at what appears some times to be the refs whim. Why should the opposition benefit when they may have caused an injury and have a full team on. So as in rugby stop the clock and restart when fit. That way no queries over additional time, when 90 mins are up final whistle! Simple! All clubs have a zero tolerance policy towards racism in all it's forms, if they cannot control their supporters they should be punished by points deductions not fines and the offending supporters banned. | |||
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"I've supported West Ham for 40 years, been to loads of games. Loads of black supporters, club nor fans are racist. Tottenham fans call themselves Yids, they sing it with pride, banter at football is often insulting but not without some dark humour at times. I'm forever blowing bubbles Pretty bubbles in the air They fly so high They reach the sky And like my dreams They fade and die Fortunes always hiding I've looked everywhere I'm forever blowing bubbles Pretty bubbles in the air. United...United... " Yesterday all three of West Hams goalscorers were black. I don't think anyone in their right mind is suggesting that 'West Ham' is racist. The issue highlighted by the thread is that there is a problem with racism in football. Most accept it is down to a minority. The question is how do you deal with it. Some in this thread seem to suggest that overt racism is part of 'justifiable' football banter, and are attempting to stand behind that age old defense of 'it's always been like that', or people who don't accept it don't understand football. In my opinion those views display a level of ignorance. The law is clear. | |||
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"A man was arrested at the Manchester Derby today for alledged racist chanting. It won't take many on the spot arrests in stadiums to make people think twice. " Arrested! Banning! And locking up! | |||
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"A man was arrested at the Manchester Derby today for alledged racist chanting. It won't take many on the spot arrests in stadiums to make people think twice. " a man was arrested at the Norwich vs Swansea yesterday for "a rascist gesture" and there's been a few arrest recently but that didn't seem to stop this fool today but atleast something is being done now | |||
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"What about the Ferdinand incident?" what about it? | |||
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"What about the Ferdinand incident?" He is mixed race...its only half racist!
I think supporters whatever their personal views are are slowly coming round to the fact that they probably wont get away with it..times are changing, banter, lighthearted abuse fine..but monkey chants, bananas being thrown and spiteful stuff is plain wrong..
I think times are changing at last. | |||
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"What about the Ferdinand incident? He is mixed race...its only half racist! "not evan funny | |||
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"Only tongue in cheek digga... "in bad taste more like but we live and learn hey | |||
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"What about the Ferdinand incident?" The Ferdinand incident was an assault, I don't believe it was necessarily racially motivated. That same section of the crowd were also throwing coins at Rooney earlier in the game. | |||
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"£65K fine for the Serbia FA following the racism at the England U21 match.....laughable. " I would say predictable | |||
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"£65K fine for the Serbia FA following the racism at the England U21 match.....laughable. I would say predictable " and pathetic.. | |||
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"£65K fine for the Serbia FA following the racism at the England U21 match.....laughable. " and if it had been english fans racialy abusing serbs how bad would the sanctions be ? | |||
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"The Milan player Kevin Prince Boateng walked off the pitch during a match in Italy this week in protest against the racism he was facing from opposition supporters. The whole Milan team decided to support his protest and followed him off the pitch. So far his action has been publicly supported by the Italian FA as well as a number of high profile individuals. The match was abandoned. " It was only a friendly tho. On a first class game your last line would read.. The match was forfeited by walking off the pitch Can you see that happening? | |||
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yawn yawn yawn !!!! | |||
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"I've not stopped smiling since Sunday. "Hence why my pic is of me with my top on | |||
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"That’s not true at all. I could definitely see you winning the Championship and instant promotion back in to the Premier League inside the next 5 years " May well be true . Loyal supporter ! ...take it your a spud | |||
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"Ffs thought at keast a draw verses the mickeys " You are not out yet | |||
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At least we have European competition to enjoy.
Lovely 2nd goal from Mikey last night. | |||
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"It's been an awful season so far, back to normal!
At least we have European competition to enjoy.
Lovely 2nd goal from Mikey last night. "Unfortunately and like my dreams they fade and die... Few more months of Moyes | |||
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