FabSwingers.com forum: Are you capable?

By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

Something i have been thinking about recently, which i think is more and more relevant in this increasingly polarised society...are you capable of separating an opinion from the person that expressed the opinion?

To expand on that, are you the type of person who will dismiss out of hand something uttered by a person you normally find you vehemently disagree with, even if that utterance in question is actually reasonable in that instance? Or are you able to treat it on its own merits independent of your feelings of the person in question?

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

Anything Rees Mogg says it's wrong. If he agreed with me then I would be wrong too.

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

Yes ..I think so ..maybe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dont expect to agree with everyone

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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago

Wales

Good question!

I’d like to think I am good at separating an opinion, but sometimes I don’t think I do. It’s like there’s a small stain left on them. If that makes sense?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd be slightly worried for that person's wellbeing if they agreed with me on everything.

It's good to be different.

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Anything Rees Mogg says it's wrong. If he agreed with me then I would be wrong too."

So youre in the former category then as opposed to the latter.

Why would you not treat each comment on its own merit rather than boxing it off based purely on the mouth it came from? Im curious

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Good question!

I’d like to think I am good at separating an opinion, but sometimes I don’t think I do. It’s like there’s a small stain left on them. If that makes sense?"

Makes perfect sense, and i think we're all a little guilty of it.

The more one becomes entrenched in their overall views, the more they become subject to that tendancy i think

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By *anBerksMan
over a year ago

Berkshire

We all have our internal prejudices and I’m sure that they kick in for me often, but I do TRY to be reasonable and rational and take everything on it’s merits.

It’s like politics, some people will always vote for a political party whatever their manifesto says. Me? I’ve chopped and changed each election based on what each party says in each manifesto.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, cause as the saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

Well thats what im asking, are you capable of treating the opinion on its own merits, regardless of who expressed it?

So if you agree with the opinion but hate the person, or vice versa, are you capable of acknowledging that and accepting it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can seperate the two and even the most vile of people can make sense sometimes.

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By *ister CMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Something i have been thinking about recently, which i think is more and more relevant in this increasingly polarised society...are you capable of separating an opinion from the person that expressed the opinion?

I absolutely am and as a result I'm willing to discuss litterally anything with anyone no matter how polarising. Its critical that people are able to do that i think... more so with the global nature of things.

Not doing so, and having a niche or tribal (echo chamber) approaches to things begets that which you're standing against and has disastrous consequences usually.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suppose it can vastly depend on how that individual delivered their opinion?

You can see it in the forums probably moreso than real life, where people aren't so quick to express opposing views as they aren't as anonymous.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Yes I am. I try (not always successfully) to listen to what person is actually saying or read what they have written rather than assume I know.

In here for instance there are some people who hold views I find abhorrent on many subjects but occasionally they write something I agree with

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

[Removed by poster at 25/08/22 14:54:44]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anything Rees Mogg says it's wrong. If he agreed with me then I would be wrong too."

This

no question

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By *eatrice BadinageWoman
over a year ago

In a Sparkly Dress

Yes I find it easy to seperate the two, every one can have a shitty day and their opinions change, I'm very tolerant unless it's outright abusive and bullying. Then I call them out on it

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

Keeping it within the bounds of fab and the forums there are many reasons for not liking certain people.

If they have a history of expressing ignorant, insulting or belligerent opinions and suddenly come up with one that flies in the face of everything that's gone before, the cynic in me refuses to believe it's a genuine opinion even if it's one I agree with.

I won't acknowledge opinions in cases like that.

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

" I suppose it can vastly depend on how that individual delivered their opinion?

You can see it in the forums probably moreso than real life, where people aren't so quick to express opposing views as they aren't as anonymous."

Thats interesting. What do you mean by 'how they delivered it'?

Do you mean, for eg, maybe its an opinion you agree with but was delivered in an aggressive manner?

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Keeping it within the bounds of fab and the forums there are many reasons for not liking certain people.

I won't acknowledge opinions in cases like that. "

At what stage then will you acknowledge it? What if the person expresses a second opinion you agree with?

Would they have to express several before you might acknowledge one?

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By *ryandseeMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire

I do try to be fair and listen to the opinion of others. Sometimes I struggle if they have previously expressed extreme opinions that I find unacceptable. I also find people who blindly support a political party hard to comprehend. I have my own beliefs, values and standards and if there is no positive correlation, there is no way I will blindly support anyone.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

Well thats what im asking, are you capable of treating the opinion on its own merits, regardless of who expressed it?

So if you agree with the opinion but hate the person, or vice versa, are you capable of acknowledging that and accepting it? "

Some opinions have no merits.

Nor the people expressing them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I remember the day I agreed with Pearce...mortified!

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

"Keeping it within the bounds of fab and the forums there are many reasons for not liking certain people.

I won't acknowledge opinions in cases like that.

At what stage then will you acknowledge it? What if the person expresses a second opinion you agree with?

Would they have to express several before you might acknowledge one? "

On here I wouldn't acknowledge any opinions they offer if they have history of trolling or being deliberately incendiary.

Then again it's not in my nature to publicly acknowledge views and opinions from people I do actually like.

They don't need my validation.

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

Well thats what im asking, are you capable of treating the opinion on its own merits, regardless of who expressed it?

So if you agree with the opinion but hate the person, or vice versa, are you capable of acknowledging that and accepting it?

Some opinions have no merits.

Nor the people expressing them.

So i think youre on the side of the fence so that cant separate the person from the opinion? That seems to be more and more prevalent these days i think its fair to say

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Keeping it within the bounds of fab and the forums there are many reasons for not liking certain people.

I won't acknowledge opinions in cases like that.

At what stage then will you acknowledge it? What if the person expresses a second opinion you agree with?

Would they have to express several before you might acknowledge one?

On here I wouldn't acknowledge any opinions they offer if they have history of trolling or being deliberately incendiary.

Then again it's not in my nature to publicly acknowledge views and opinions from people I do actually like.

They don't need my validation. "

Well not even publicly acknowledge, how about even privately acknowledge and accept?

For how long are you coloured by the persons other opinions before you can acknowledge you might agree with a new opinion of theirs?

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

Well thats what im asking, are you capable of treating the opinion on its own merits, regardless of who expressed it?

So if you agree with the opinion but hate the person, or vice versa, are you capable of acknowledging that and accepting it?

Some opinions have no merits.

Nor the people expressing them.

So i think youre on the side of the fence so that cant separate the person from the opinion? That seems to be more and more prevalent these days i think its fair to say"

Nope. Not at all.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether I agree with it or not and there are people that I'm friends with and very fond of that have wildly differing opinions than me. Nothing wrong with that.

There are however people who either through plain ignorance or intolerance, express opinions that are offensive. There's little that can be done to separate the opinion from the arsehole sometimes.

It's perfectly possible for it to be situationally dependent much like many aspects of life.

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

Well thats what im asking, are you capable of treating the opinion on its own merits, regardless of who expressed it?

So if you agree with the opinion but hate the person, or vice versa, are you capable of acknowledging that and accepting it?

Some opinions have no merits.

Nor the people expressing them.

So i think youre on the side of the fence so that cant separate the person from the opinion? That seems to be more and more prevalent these days i think its fair to say

Nope. Not at all.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether I agree with it or not and there are people that I'm friends with and very fond of that have wildly differing opinions than me. Nothing wrong with that.

There are however people who either through plain ignorance or intolerance, express opinions that are offensive. There's little that can be done to separate the opinion from the arsehole sometimes.

It's perfectly possible for it to be situationally dependent much like many aspects of life.

But you said some opinions have no merit, nor the person expressing them.

Does that not indicate that even if such a person were to express an opinion you actually agreed with, that you would still dismiss it, because of the person it came from?

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

"Anything Rees Mogg says it's wrong. If he agreed with me then I would be wrong too.

So youre in the former category then as opposed to the latter.

Why would you not treat each comment on its own merit rather than boxing it off based purely on the mouth it came from? Im curious"

Because of the mouth it came out of.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

Well thats what im asking, are you capable of treating the opinion on its own merits, regardless of who expressed it?

So if you agree with the opinion but hate the person, or vice versa, are you capable of acknowledging that and accepting it?

Some opinions have no merits.

Nor the people expressing them.

So i think youre on the side of the fence so that cant separate the person from the opinion? That seems to be more and more prevalent these days i think its fair to say

Nope. Not at all.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether I agree with it or not and there are people that I'm friends with and very fond of that have wildly differing opinions than me. Nothing wrong with that.

There are however people who either through plain ignorance or intolerance, express opinions that are offensive. There's little that can be done to separate the opinion from the arsehole sometimes.

It's perfectly possible for it to be situationally dependent much like many aspects of life.

But you said some opinions have no merit, nor the person expressing them.

Does that not indicate that even if such a person were to express an opinion you actually agreed with, that you would still dismiss it, because of the person it came from? "

No. You seem to be trying to twist the words that I've quite clearly typed.

I said some opinions have no merit nor the person expressing them. I'll give clear examples.

Racists who believe in white supremacy.

Incel misogynists who believe women are beneath them, and should be good little housewives serving them and their needs.

Homophobes who see anyone not straight as abnormal.

I could go on but if you can't grasp the concept I'm trying to display then there's little point.

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

Well thats what im asking, are you capable of treating the opinion on its own merits, regardless of who expressed it?

So if you agree with the opinion but hate the person, or vice versa, are you capable of acknowledging that and accepting it?

Some opinions have no merits.

Nor the people expressing them.

So i think youre on the side of the fence so that cant separate the person from the opinion? That seems to be more and more prevalent these days i think its fair to say

Nope. Not at all.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether I agree with it or not and there are people that I'm friends with and very fond of that have wildly differing opinions than me. Nothing wrong with that.

There are however people who either through plain ignorance or intolerance, express opinions that are offensive. There's little that can be done to separate the opinion from the arsehole sometimes.

It's perfectly possible for it to be situationally dependent much like many aspects of life.

But you said some opinions have no merit, nor the person expressing them.

Does that not indicate that even if such a person were to express an opinion you actually agreed with, that you would still dismiss it, because of the person it came from?

No. You seem to be trying to twist the words that I've quite clearly typed.

I said some opinions have no merit nor the person expressing them. I'll give clear examples.

Racists who believe in white supremacy.

Incel misogynists who believe women are beneath them, and should be good little housewives serving them and their needs.

Homophobes who see anyone not straight as abnormal.

I could go on but if you can't grasp the concept I'm trying to display then there's little point.

Im not trying to twist anything at all, im only exploring peoples views on the subject.

So to develop on your example; if a white supremacist expressed a view that you also held, im going to take a guess here, for example that all those suffering with mental health issues should be offered all necessary supports and treatment. Would you be able to acknowledge that you agree with them on that?

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Anything Rees Mogg says it's wrong. If he agreed with me then I would be wrong too.

So youre in the former category then as opposed to the latter.

Why would you not treat each comment on its own merit rather than boxing it off based purely on the mouth it came from? Im curious

Because of the mouth it came out of. "

Fair enough. I dont agree but i accept your own position

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

Well thats what im asking, are you capable of treating the opinion on its own merits, regardless of who expressed it?

So if you agree with the opinion but hate the person, or vice versa, are you capable of acknowledging that and accepting it?

Some opinions have no merits.

Nor the people expressing them.

So i think youre on the side of the fence so that cant separate the person from the opinion? That seems to be more and more prevalent these days i think its fair to say

Nope. Not at all.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether I agree with it or not and there are people that I'm friends with and very fond of that have wildly differing opinions than me. Nothing wrong with that.

There are however people who either through plain ignorance or intolerance, express opinions that are offensive. There's little that can be done to separate the opinion from the arsehole sometimes.

It's perfectly possible for it to be situationally dependent much like many aspects of life.

But you said some opinions have no merit, nor the person expressing them.

Does that not indicate that even if such a person were to express an opinion you actually agreed with, that you would still dismiss it, because of the person it came from?

No. You seem to be trying to twist the words that I've quite clearly typed.

I said some opinions have no merit nor the person expressing them. I'll give clear examples.

Racists who believe in white supremacy.

Incel misogynists who believe women are beneath them, and should be good little housewives serving them and their needs.

Homophobes who see anyone not straight as abnormal.

I could go on but if you can't grasp the concept I'm trying to display then there's little point.

Im not trying to twist anything at all, im only exploring peoples views on the subject.

Basically what you want someone to say is that if Hitler said puppies and fluffy kittens are cute then you'd agree with him, thus agreeing with Hitler despite him being, well, a prize cunt.

In theory yes - it's possible to agree on a statement made by someone who is fundamentally evil, deserving of hate and who should be buried 100ft underground in a barrel of shit whilst still alive.

Theory is one thing. The likelihood of someone you despise for ideological, moral or ethical reasons, saying something important that you agree with is much smaller than them saying something that offends you though.

In 'theory' anything is possible. In practice.....?

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By *ryandseeMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire

I think the point has been well made. Why would anyone want to agree or indeed give the time of day to anyone with abhorrent views. And on this point I am out and all the best

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By *ananaman41 OP Man
over a year ago

Dublin

"Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

Well thats what im asking, are you capable of treating the opinion on its own merits, regardless of who expressed it?

So if you agree with the opinion but hate the person, or vice versa, are you capable of acknowledging that and accepting it?

Some opinions have no merits.

Nor the people expressing them.

So i think youre on the side of the fence so that cant separate the person from the opinion? That seems to be more and more prevalent these days i think its fair to say

Nope. Not at all.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether I agree with it or not and there are people that I'm friends with and very fond of that have wildly differing opinions than me. Nothing wrong with that.

There are however people who either through plain ignorance or intolerance, express opinions that are offensive. There's little that can be done to separate the opinion from the arsehole sometimes.

It's perfectly possible for it to be situationally dependent much like many aspects of life.

But you said some opinions have no merit, nor the person expressing them.

Does that not indicate that even if such a person were to express an opinion you actually agreed with, that you would still dismiss it, because of the person it came from?

No. You seem to be trying to twist the words that I've quite clearly typed.

I said some opinions have no merit nor the person expressing them. I'll give clear examples.

Racists who believe in white supremacy.

Incel misogynists who believe women are beneath them, and should be good little housewives serving them and their needs.

Homophobes who see anyone not straight as abnormal.

I could go on but if you can't grasp the concept I'm trying to display then there's little point.

Im not trying to twist anything at all, im only exploring peoples views on the subject.

Basically what you want someone to say is that if Hitler said puppies and fluffy kittens are cute then you'd agree with him, thus agreeing with Hitler despite him being, well, a prize cunt.

In theory yes - it's possible to agree on a statement made by someone who is fundamentally evil, deserving of hate and who should be buried 100ft underground in a barrel of shit whilst still alive.

In 'theory' anything is possible. In practice.....?

A "

Oh youre most likely correct, when it comes to such extreme examples.

Quite often there are people who we just don't like or normally vehemently disagree with, and its moreso those situations im trying to to the heart of, rather than the extreme ones

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By *rincess peachWoman
over a year ago

shits creek

I can agree with someone's opinion even though I thoroughly despise them and everything they've said until that point. If I agree with it, I agree with it and can appreciate as much as nobody will agree with everything I say, I will not disagree with everything someone else says, even if they are a grade A cunt.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Depends on the opinion being expressed.

Some things that are said are unforgivable, unacceptable and should never be tolerated.

Others are simply opinions.

Well thats what im asking, are you capable of treating the opinion on its own merits, regardless of who expressed it?

So if you agree with the opinion but hate the person, or vice versa, are you capable of acknowledging that and accepting it?

Some opinions have no merits.

Nor the people expressing them.

So i think youre on the side of the fence so that cant separate the person from the opinion? That seems to be more and more prevalent these days i think its fair to say

Nope. Not at all.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether I agree with it or not and there are people that I'm friends with and very fond of that have wildly differing opinions than me. Nothing wrong with that.

There are however people who either through plain ignorance or intolerance, express opinions that are offensive. There's little that can be done to separate the opinion from the arsehole sometimes.

It's perfectly possible for it to be situationally dependent much like many aspects of life.

But you said some opinions have no merit, nor the person expressing them.

Does that not indicate that even if such a person were to express an opinion you actually agreed with, that you would still dismiss it, because of the person it came from?

No. You seem to be trying to twist the words that I've quite clearly typed.

I said some opinions have no merit nor the person expressing them. I'll give clear examples.

Racists who believe in white supremacy.

Incel misogynists who believe women are beneath them, and should be good little housewives serving them and their needs.

Homophobes who see anyone not straight as abnormal.

I could go on but if you can't grasp the concept I'm trying to display then there's little point.

Im not trying to twist anything at all, im only exploring peoples views on the subject.

Basically what you want someone to say is that if Hitler said puppies and fluffy kittens are cute then you'd agree with him, thus agreeing with Hitler despite him being, well, a prize cunt.

In theory yes - it's possible to agree on a statement made by someone who is fundamentally evil, deserving of hate and who should be buried 100ft underground in a barrel of shit whilst still alive.

In 'theory' anything is possible. In practice.....?

Oh youre most likely correct, when it comes to such extreme examples.

Quite often there are people who we just don't like or normally vehemently disagree with, and its moreso those situations im trying to to the heart of, rather than the extreme ones"

Ok. One final word on this from me.

Yes. Of course if someone you dislike says something that you agree with of course it's perfectly possible to recognise that on that matter they are correct in your mind.

It doesn't necessarily change at all your opinion of them based on previous experiences, views they have expressed or behaviour they have demonstrated.

Likewise it's perfectly possible for someone you love to say something you disagree with, yet you don't suddenly start not loving them.

And on that note........

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