Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to The Lounge |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Say the Stories who will get rid of these inclusion and diversity departments. Is this a victory for common sense? This is all over the news" Suella will. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This is an absolute disgrace Tom and no mistake." | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Sack these buggers .. " Which ones? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"These diversity people are a menace.. they are the new health and safety.. Love your brother and sister regardless of colour or creed " And what is wrong with that? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 seriously! Then I got told 'you're in England, speak English' wtf!!
By the entrance there was the word 'Welcome' in every other language other than Welsh, when I enquired why I got told 'it's a home language, doesn't count'
Not very diverse and inclusive of them at all | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"These diversity people are a menace.. they are the new health and safety.. Love your brother and sister regardless of colour or creed " Is that not what the menaces are promoting? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"These diversity people are a menace.. they are the new health and safety.. Love your brother and sister regardless of colour or creed Is that not what the menaces are promoting?"   | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The nhs spending millions a year to make sure they have hired the most diverse work force instead of the best for the job, if I need an operation and a squid is the most qualified I want that squid cutting my guts open" Don't blame the NHS, blame David lammy. He set targets for D& in recruitment. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have a real problem with “diversity” at my workplace. They keep using the terms “diverse work force” and show pictures but it does not represent what we see at work. Basically they just find a few brown or black people, stick a woman in a high vis and take a picture and that’s their idea of diversity "I have an issue with diversity at work too, there's some electric heaters that need installing but the distribution box is only rated to 63 amps and close to the maximum demand already! It requires a whole mains circuit putting in from quite a distance... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I’m not for forced quotas but I am for equal opportunities for all! " Contradictory? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I’m not for forced quotas but I am for equal opportunities for all! Contradictory? " You’re assuming that D&I equals forced quotas it doesn’t! One of my closest friends is the D&I lead of a major charity! If you think D&I equals forced quotas then you don’t understand the subject you’re talking about! ‘Some’ organisations have forced quotas but most orgs with D&I departments don’t! Many D&I staff are centred around removing bias from the recruitment process for example! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Given the amount of conscious and unintended bias and racist micro aggressions that I’ve had to deal with throughout my working life and the lack of opportunities for disabled people in the workforce, D&I is needed! Homophobia is also ever present in many organisations. I’m all for it unsurprisingly! " Mr Woke has arrived...... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Given the amount of conscious and unintended bias and racist micro aggressions that I’ve had to deal with throughout my working life and the lack of opportunities for disabled people in the workforce, D&I is needed! Homophobia is also ever present in many organisations. I’m all for it unsurprisingly! Mr Woke has arrived......" Good, woke isn’t an insult! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Given the amount of conscious and unintended bias and racist micro aggressions that I’ve had to deal with throughout my working life and the lack of opportunities for disabled people in the workforce, D&I is needed! Homophobia is also ever present in many organisations. I’m all for it unsurprisingly! Mr Woke has arrived...... Good, woke isn’t an insult! " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Given the amount of conscious and unintended bias and racist micro aggressions that I’ve had to deal with throughout my working life and the lack of opportunities for disabled people in the workforce, D&I is needed! Homophobia is also ever present in many organisations. I’m all for it unsurprisingly! " As a white male who considers himself an ally of racial minorities and also a feminist, I can only echo these sentiments. I’ve seen exactly how racist, sexist and homophobic people can be when they think they can get away with it in the workplace. Without diversity programs then things would be much worse. And in my experience, if you’re throwing terms like “woke” around with a negative connotation, then chances are you’re either a bit racist, sexist or homophobic… or a combination of the three | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Given the amount of conscious and unintended bias and racist micro aggressions that I’ve had to deal with throughout my working life and the lack of opportunities for disabled people in the workforce, D&I is needed! Homophobia is also ever present in many organisations. I’m all for it unsurprisingly! As a white male who considers himself an ally of racial minorities and also a feminist, I can only echo these sentiments. I’ve seen exactly how racist, sexist and homophobic people can be when they think they can get away with it in the workplace. Without diversity programs then things would be much worse. And in my experience, if you’re throwing terms like “woke” around with a negative connotation, then chances are you’re either a bit racist, sexist or homophobic… or a combination of the three" And here lies the problem.. A person says 'woke' and you condemn them as racist, homophobic and sexist.. that view is the problem and not the solution... Guilty without charge.. Witch finder general | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a white male who considers himself an ally of racial minorities and also a feminist, I can only echo these sentiments. I’ve seen exactly how racist, sexist and homophobic people can be when they think they can get away with it in the workplace. Without diversity programs then things would be much worse. And in my experience, if you’re throwing terms like “woke” around with a negative connotation, then chances are you’re either a bit racist, sexist or homophobic… or a combination of the three And here lies the problem.. A person says 'woke' and you condemn them as racist, homophobic and sexist.. that view is the problem and not the solution... Guilty without charge.. Witch finder general " That's not what they did though. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a white male who considers himself an ally of racial minorities and also a feminist, I can only echo these sentiments. I’ve seen exactly how racist, sexist and homophobic people can be when they think they can get away with it in the workplace. Without diversity programs then things would be much worse. And in my experience, if you’re throwing terms like “woke” around with a negative connotation, then chances are you’re either a bit racist, sexist or homophobic… or a combination of the three And here lies the problem.. A person says 'woke' and you condemn them as racist, homophobic and sexist.. that view is the problem and not the solution... Guilty without charge.. Witch finder general That's not what they did though." It's the implication.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a white male who considers himself an ally of racial minorities and also a feminist, I can only echo these sentiments. I’ve seen exactly how racist, sexist and homophobic people can be when they think they can get away with it in the workplace. Without diversity programs then things would be much worse. And in my experience, if you’re throwing terms like “woke” around with a negative connotation, then chances are you’re either a bit racist, sexist or homophobic… or a combination of the three And here lies the problem.. A person says 'woke' and you condemn them as racist, homophobic and sexist.. that view is the problem and not the solution... Guilty without charge.. Witch finder general That's not what they did though. It's the implication.. " Only if you want it to be. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"TV adverts are less diverse now but what's happened to all the gingery kids who used to advertise baked beans and kid's products? On the scrap heap that's where and they haven't even reached puberty,," And the Milky Bar kid | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"TV adverts are less diverse now but what's happened to all the gingery kids who used to advertise baked beans and kid's products? On the scrap heap that's where and they haven't even reached puberty,, And the Milky Bar kid " He’s 58 now, and milked it all these years. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"TV adverts are less diverse now but what's happened to all the gingery kids who used to advertise baked beans and kid's products? On the scrap heap that's where and they haven't even reached puberty,, And the Milky Bar kid He’s 58 now, and milked it all these years. " 58? What is he doing now ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"TV adverts are less diverse now but what's happened to all the gingery kids who used to advertise baked beans and kid's products? On the scrap heap that's where and they haven't even reached puberty,, And the Milky Bar kid He’s 58 now, and milked it all these years. " I remember Dara O' Briain's "This is the Show" (I think) had a bit regarding the milky bar kid and how it was no longer a thing... The punch line being at least at the filmed show (and possibly more) he had one of them in the audience as part of the gag! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"TV adverts are less diverse now but what's happened to all the gingery kids who used to advertise baked beans and kid's products? On the scrap heap that's where and they haven't even reached puberty,, And the Milky Bar kid He’s 58 now, and milked it all these years. 58? What is he doing now ?" On the dole. He had a brief spell advertising pot noodles but he couldn’t cut it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"TV adverts are less diverse now but what's happened to all the gingery kids who used to advertise baked beans and kid's products? On the scrap heap that's where and they haven't even reached puberty,, And the Milky Bar kid He’s 58 now, and milked it all these years. 58? What is he doing now ? On the dole. He had a brief spell advertising pot noodles but he couldn’t cut it." Was it an advert on TV. Which flavour ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"These diversity people are a menace.. they are the new health and safety.. " I swear right wing people just have a list of buzz words to get mad about. Since the 1974 health and safety act, work place deaths have reduced by 90%. But yeah, "health and safety bad!" | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"TV adverts are less diverse now but what's happened to all the gingery kids who used to advertise baked beans and kid's products? On the scrap heap that's where and they haven't even reached puberty,, And the Milky Bar kid He’s 58 now, and milked it all these years. 58? What is he doing now ? On the dole. He had a brief spell advertising pot noodles but he couldn’t cut it. Was it an advert on TV. Which flavour ?" No Tom, Nicole is making this shit up! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"TV adverts are less diverse now but what's happened to all the gingery kids who used to advertise baked beans and kid's products? On the scrap heap that's where and they haven't even reached puberty,, And the Milky Bar kid He’s 58 now, and milked it all these years. 58? What is he doing now ? On the dole. He had a brief spell advertising pot noodles but he couldn’t cut it. Was it an advert on TV. Which flavour ? No Tom, Nicole is making this shit up!" But which flavour ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"These diversity people are a menace.. they are the new health and safety.. I swear right wing people just have a list of buzz words to get mad about. Since the 1974 health and safety act, work place deaths have reduced by 90%. But yeah, "health and safety bad!" " Careful, they’ll accuse you of pushing your lefty “woke” agenda on them… how dare you want people not to be hurt at work! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have a real problem with “diversity” at my workplace. They keep using the terms “diverse work force” and show pictures but it does not represent what we see at work. Basically they just find a few brown or black people, stick a woman in a high vis and take a picture and that’s their idea of diversity
I have an issue with diversity at work too, there's some electric heaters that need installing but the distribution box is only rated to 63 amps and close to the maximum demand already! It requires a whole mains circuit putting in from quite a distance..."Electricians joke, just being nerdy | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I actually don't agree with those departments. Everyone knows that if higher ups in companies want to exclude people, they will do. They just won't overtly say what it's about and will make up another excuse. Managerial positions at big companies are an old boys club because "they fit the culture of what they're looking for". The inclusion and diversity is there for the associate and mid-level and maybe senior roles but as long we stay in our lane, then it's all good and they can say they are a diverse company "I think for a shockingly high amount of places you are right. But not everywhere. I also like to think that the number of places where it isn't true is increasing as more places actually embrace diversity. But it could just be wishful thinking. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"TV adverts are less diverse now but what's happened to all the gingery kids who used to advertise baked beans and kid's products? On the scrap heap that's where and they haven't even reached puberty,, And the Milky Bar kid He’s 58 now, and milked it all these years. 58? What is he doing now ? On the dole. He had a brief spell advertising pot noodles but he couldn’t cut it. Was it an advert on TV. Which flavour ? No Tom, Nicole is making this shit up! But which flavour ? " Bombay bad boy! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"How exactly are they a menace Tom? One of the outcomes of equality and diversity in my workplace. A quiet room initially was supposed to be for breastfeeding women when they returned to work, now used as quiet room for anyone who needs it e.g. migraine sufferers, people will long term illness. Making records of different ethnicities and gender of the staff. To see if there are glass ceilings, when ones are seen hold workshops to see if there is a reason why and see if they can be overcome. Total menace "Where are the women supposed to breast feed with all those dudes in the room? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"How exactly are they a menace Tom? One of the outcomes of equality and diversity in my workplace. A quiet room initially was supposed to be for breastfeeding women when they returned to work, now used as quiet room for anyone who needs it e.g. migraine sufferers, people will long term illness. Making records of different ethnicities and gender of the staff. To see if there are glass ceilings, when ones are seen hold workshops to see if there is a reason why and see if they can be overcome. Total menace
Where are the women supposed to breast feed with all those dudes in the room?"Haha no it's actually a lockable room. Which has a sink and a fridge to store milk until you go home. Which is really handy when you first go back to work. Nobody steals milk from that fridge luckily. Just it's now used for several other reasons now, so it benefits more. : | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"TV adverts are less diverse now but what's happened to all the gingery kids who used to advertise baked beans and kid's products? On the scrap heap that's where and they haven't even reached puberty,, And the Milky Bar kid He’s 58 now, and milked it all these years. 58? What is he doing now ? On the dole. He had a brief spell advertising pot noodles but he couldn’t cut it. Was it an advert on TV. Which flavour ? No Tom, Nicole is making this shit up! But which flavour ? Bombay bad boy!" Bit hot that one.. prefer the milder curry one. Tom not a hot curry man | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"My objection to this whole situation is that we shouldn't have got to the point of having to name this D&I bollocks.. If companies recruited the best people for the job regardless of race / creed / sexuality / gender to start with nobody would have to argue about it on a swingers forum "Yes, that’s all good and well, but what are the d&i specialists going to do for a living? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"My objection to this whole situation is that we shouldn't have got to the point of having to name this D&I bollocks.. If companies recruited the best people for the job regardless of race / creed / sexuality / gender to start with nobody would have to argue about it on a swingers forum "Hell yeah. As the guy above says. D&I is now taking over common sense when it comes to employing the best candidate for the job. So many companies have a diversity policy that they have to follow. This is in no way at all a bad thing. It is an amazing thing. Everyone should have the same opportunity to work regardless of sex, colour or creed ect. But we have to draw the line somewhere. Not everyone is able to fulfill certain roles. Would you for example employ someone in a wheelchair to clean your windows?? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I stopped watching the news a few weeks if not months back it’s just opinion pieces of whoever they align with, and they go to the side that is most popular for ratings at the time, but diversity by right is a load of shite everything should be judge of are you the best and you're character, your race,religion or sexuality doesn’t come in to question if your the best, I’ve worked with shit and good white,black,Asian, male, female etc and in serious professions where it matters that the best people get there, people in the real world don’t give a toss just news people making something of nothing and yes Prejudice is real but them people are thick. Rant over so about the question yeah I think circumcised dicks a fatter haahahaha (sarcasm) " This is the danger of coming on here d*unk and horny all of a sudden got a floppy cock and chatting shit hahah | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I’m not for forced quotas but I am for equal opportunities for all! Contradictory? " Equal opportunities is not the same as equal outcomes. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I’m not for forced quotas but I am for equal opportunities for all! Contradictory? Equal opportunities is not the same as equal outcomes. " Exactly. Quotas mean hire one of each “thing” - race, gender, disability etc Opportunities means the interview process is open to everyone | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In every situation the best person should be employed for the role regardless of gender, age, colour or sexuality. Why employ someone who simply fulfils a tick box exercise? Surely employing people based on a diverse/inclusion strategy is only going to minimise productivity or reduce overall efficiency Give everyone the opportunity but use a realistic judgement when making a final decision If you employ someone solely on meeting an agenda of diversity then surely you are only patronising that person as well as penalising your own business? Logic over woke in my opinion" Agreed 100% | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I am fascinated by people who are anti 'Woke'. I suspect that we are operating under different impressions of what it means. Please give me your definition of woke and tell me why it's not good to be 'Woke'?" I think the same can be said about definitions of diversity and inclusiveness and how they effect us all...shared language and communication are essential. As someone wrote above. Similar to health and safety. Which in principle is unarguable. But some of then initiatives are bonkers.. (kettle training a some example) and understandably are ridiculed. I think that the media, being agenda and click bait led, stir things and mislead and create problems that may not exist. And I think certainly some of the roles and activities under the label of diversity are clearly to anyone with an ounce of sense not helping anyone other than the job occupant. That said the principle of fairness to all can't be argued against. It shouldn't really be pulled out as a separate job role / function though. It's almost like having a department for breathing. It should be woven into every job. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I am fascinated by people who are anti 'Woke'. I suspect that we are operating under different impressions of what it means. Please give me your definition of woke and tell me why it's not good to be 'Woke'? I think the same can be said about definitions of diversity and inclusiveness and how they effect us all...shared language and communication are essential. As someone wrote above. Similar to health and safety. Which in principle is unarguable. But some of then initiatives are bonkers.. (kettle training a some example) and understandably are ridiculed. I think that the media, being agenda and click bait led, stir things and mislead and create problems that may not exist. And I think certainly some of the roles and activities under the label of diversity are clearly to anyone with an ounce of sense not helping anyone other than the job occupant. That said the principle of fairness to all can't be argued against. It shouldn't really be pulled out as a separate job role / function though. It's almost like having a department for breathing. It should be woven into every job. " It should be but unfortunately it's not. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People miss the point of it, last Nursery I worked in used to preach it (big international chain) but it wasn't practised. I speak Welsh and was conversing with a parent in Welsh, I got asked "what on earth were you babbling?" seriously! Then I got told 'you're in England, speak English' wtf!!
By the entrance there was the word 'Welcome' in every other language other than Welsh, when I enquired why I got told 'it's a home language, doesn't count'
Not very diverse and inclusive of them at all "That’s always the way with welsh, it’s an amazing language and we just don’t include it enough. And don’t get me started on how the English tried to eradicate it!!! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Racism and classism are rampant in my field-academia- which is a predominantly white male middle class arena. Diversity and inclusion is a welcome and much overdue initiative. No one In D+I is saying that you should hire people simply for their characteristics (be it class, race, gender, etc). The point is to reduce the level of discrimination against these characteristics, which is endemic." The problem is that employers do advertise and employ solely on characteristics such as gender and ethnicity The BBC regularly advertise for Asian, Black, persons of colour and specific gender Inclusion, by virtue of the words meaning, is to consider all, but ultimately to employ based on those specifics is demeaning and patronising. Also that strategy is actually more about exclusion than inclusion. The best man (now person) for the job has to be the logical approach Would you take your car to a dentist and have a mechanic fill your cavity? Let's cut through the nonsense and simply give opportunities to the best person whatever their age, gender, ethnicity, sexuality or colour Why wouldn't you? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Racism and classism are rampant in my field-academia- which is a predominantly white male middle class arena. Diversity and inclusion is a welcome and much overdue initiative. No one In D+I is saying that you should hire people simply for their characteristics (be it class, race, gender, etc). The point is to reduce the level of discrimination against these characteristics, which is endemic. The problem is that employers do advertise and employ solely on characteristics such as gender and ethnicity The BBC regularly advertise for Asian, Black, persons of colour and specific gender Inclusion, by virtue of the words meaning, is to consider all, but ultimately to employ based on those specifics is demeaning and patronising. Also that strategy is actually more about exclusion than inclusion. The best man (now person) for the job has to be the logical approach Would you take your car to a dentist and have a mechanic fill your cavity? Let's cut through the nonsense and simply give opportunities to the best person whatever their age, gender, ethnicity, sexuality or colour Why wouldn't you? " Where have you seen jobs being advertised for for Asian, Black, persons of colour and specific gender? Are these for specific acting roles or office jobs etc? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Racism and classism are rampant in my field-academia- which is a predominantly white male middle class arena. Diversity and inclusion is a welcome and much overdue initiative. No one In D+I is saying that you should hire people simply for their characteristics (be it class, race, gender, etc). The point is to reduce the level of discrimination against these characteristics, which is endemic. The problem is that employers do advertise and employ solely on characteristics such as gender and ethnicity The BBC regularly advertise for Asian, Black, persons of colour and specific gender Inclusion, by virtue of the words meaning, is to consider all, but ultimately to employ based on those specifics is demeaning and patronising. Also that strategy is actually more about exclusion than inclusion. The best man (now person) for the job has to be the logical approach Would you take your car to a dentist and have a mechanic fill your cavity? Let's cut through the nonsense and simply give opportunities to the best person whatever their age, gender, ethnicity, sexuality or colour Why wouldn't you? " If you read further into those job ads, most will say that they still prioritise merit. They pick the best person for the role. However, if there are two candidates of equal ability- but one happens to be a black woman, whilst the other happens to be a white male, the panel will likely select the black woman. That’s what true Diversity and Inclusion means. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The nhs spending millions a year to make sure they have hired the most diverse work force instead of the best for the job, if I need an operation and a squid is the most qualified I want that squid cutting my guts open" NHS is probably the most diverse workforce because Brit’s don’t want to do it, I’ve worked in many hospitals and the majority of frontline workers I.e nurses, admin staff, porters are ethnically diverse. What you do see is executives and ambulance workers are more or less white British. Nothing wrong with either but I just think white brits number wise don’t want those roles anymore, if they did I’m sure they’d get them as the jobs are there the NHS is severely understaffed | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Seems like many think Diversity and inclusion is about recruitment only. Which is only a part of what these jobs entail. They look into promotion, staff retention and work place practice. E.g they've implemented a carer framework, so staff can care for an elderly or terminally ill relative without fear of loosing their jobs. They also have to in big companies write reports for the government etc stating for example gender pay gaps and such like. But I guess that doesn't make as interesting discussion I suppose. " Exactly - I’m a mentor for female middle managers because not enough make it to C level in West Africa. This is covered under diversity | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Racism and classism are rampant in my field-academia- which is a predominantly white male middle class arena. Diversity and inclusion is a welcome and much overdue initiative. No one In D+I is saying that you should hire people simply for their characteristics (be it class, race, gender, etc). The point is to reduce the level of discrimination against these characteristics, which is endemic. The problem is that employers do advertise and employ solely on characteristics such as gender and ethnicity The BBC regularly advertise for Asian, Black, persons of colour and specific gender Inclusion, by virtue of the words meaning, is to consider all, but ultimately to employ based on those specifics is demeaning and patronising. Also that strategy is actually more about exclusion than inclusion. The best man (now person) for the job has to be the logical approach Would you take your car to a dentist and have a mechanic fill your cavity? Let's cut through the nonsense and simply give opportunities to the best person whatever their age, gender, ethnicity, sexuality or colour Why wouldn't you? If you read further into those job ads, most will say that they still prioritise merit. They pick the best person for the role. However, if there are two candidates of equal ability- but one happens to be a black woman, whilst the other happens to be a white male, the panel will likely select the black woman. That’s what true Diversity and Inclusion means. " If people appear to be of equal ability in terms of a role then the selection then becomes a straight forward choice I get that But that is a fairly infrequent situation, there is usually a criteria in experience or qualification that ranks one higher I am all for choosing the correct candidate regardless | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Racism and classism are rampant in my field-academia- which is a predominantly white male middle class arena. Diversity and inclusion is a welcome and much overdue initiative. No one In D+I is saying that you should hire people simply for their characteristics (be it class, race, gender, etc). The point is to reduce the level of discrimination against these characteristics, which is endemic. The problem is that employers do advertise and employ solely on characteristics such as gender and ethnicity The BBC regularly advertise for Asian, Black, persons of colour and specific gender Inclusion, by virtue of the words meaning, is to consider all, but ultimately to employ based on those specifics is demeaning and patronising. Also that strategy is actually more about exclusion than inclusion. The best man (now person) for the job has to be the logical approach Would you take your car to a dentist and have a mechanic fill your cavity? Let's cut through the nonsense and simply give opportunities to the best person whatever their age, gender, ethnicity, sexuality or colour Why wouldn't you? If you read further into those job ads, most will say that they still prioritise merit. They pick the best person for the role. However, if there are two candidates of equal ability- but one happens to be a black woman, whilst the other happens to be a white male, the panel will likely select the black woman. That’s what true Diversity and Inclusion means. If people appear to be of equal ability in terms of a role then the selection then becomes a straight forward choice I get that But that is a fairly infrequent situation, there is usually a criteria in experience or qualification that ranks one higher I am all for choosing the correct candidate regardless " Actually, it’s not a straight forward choice. In that scenario (two candidates of equal ability), an employer committed to diversity and inclusion would pick the most under-represented candidate. By contrast, an employer who rejected D+I would probably pick a white male middle class candidate, since they are in the majority of academic roles. In a world of systemic discrimination, the promotion of D+I is never straight forward or ‘natural’. And I agree that the above scenario is rare, but they do occur. And when they do, D+I can make an important difference. And as others have said, D+I goes well beyond recruitment. It plays an essential role in combating discrimination in various areas of an organisation. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Given the amount of conscious and unintended bias and racist micro aggressions that I’ve had to deal with throughout my working life and the lack of opportunities for disabled people in the workforce, D&I is needed! Homophobia is also ever present in many organisations. I’m all for it unsurprisingly! As a white male who considers himself an ally of racial minorities and also a feminist, I can only echo these sentiments. I’ve seen exactly how racist, sexist and homophobic people can be when they think they can get away with it in the workplace. Without diversity programs then things would be much worse. And in my experience, if you’re throwing terms like “woke” around with a negative connotation, then chances are you’re either a bit racist, sexist or homophobic… or a combination of the three And here lies the problem.. A person says 'woke' and you condemn them as racist, homophobic and sexist.. that view is the problem and not the solution... Guilty without charge.. Witch finder general " You are correct Tom | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Racism and classism are rampant in my field-academia- which is a predominantly white male middle class arena. Diversity and inclusion is a welcome and much overdue initiative. No one In D+I is saying that you should hire people simply for their characteristics (be it class, race, gender, etc). The point is to reduce the level of discrimination against these characteristics, which is endemic. The problem is that employers do advertise and employ solely on characteristics such as gender and ethnicity The BBC regularly advertise for Asian, Black, persons of colour and specific gender Inclusion, by virtue of the words meaning, is to consider all, but ultimately to employ based on those specifics is demeaning and patronising. Also that strategy is actually more about exclusion than inclusion. The best man (now person) for the job has to be the logical approach Would you take your car to a dentist and have a mechanic fill your cavity? Let's cut through the nonsense and simply give opportunities to the best person whatever their age, gender, ethnicity, sexuality or colour Why wouldn't you? If you read further into those job ads, most will say that they still prioritise merit. They pick the best person for the role. However, if there are two candidates of equal ability- but one happens to be a black woman, whilst the other happens to be a white male, the panel will likely select the black woman. That’s what true Diversity and Inclusion means. If people appear to be of equal ability in terms of a role then the selection then becomes a straight forward choice I get that But that is a fairly infrequent situation, there is usually a criteria in experience or qualification that ranks one higher I am all for choosing the correct candidate regardless Actually, it’s not a straight forward choice. In that scenario (two candidates of equal ability), an employer committed to diversity and inclusion would pick the most under-represented candidate. By contrast, an employer who rejected D+I would probably pick a white male middle class candidate, since they are in the majority of academic roles. In a world of systemic discrimination, the promotion of D+I is never straight forward or ‘natural’. And I agree that the above scenario is rare, but they do occur. And when they do, D+I can make an important difference. And as others have said, D+I goes well beyond recruitment. It plays an essential role in combating discrimination in various areas of an organisation. " These scenarios types are all based on the corporate world and what has become a predetermined starting point, I can see this with the white male comment and black female comments previously. Lots of assumptions that in a role / team a white male is always the dominant group, it isn't and in many roles the white male is the least represented group. The argument then usually turns to, those roles are low paid roles, or not the top jobs on the board etc. Those types of jobs are few and far between, yes they need D&I and the white male dominance exists, but as I said the numbers of those roles are few. Diversity and inclusion should be in all roles, from the call centre to the restaurant, supermarket, driver, builders, plumbers and every job out there. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's fair to say that most people don't care about the colour, sex,creed, sexuality or religion of the workforce so long as the best person for the job gets the job." Exactly ; equality of opportunity and equality of ability should be the only measures. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's fair to say that most people don't care about the colour, sex,creed, sexuality or religion of the workforce so long as the best person for the job gets the job. Exactly ; equality of opportunity and equality of ability should be the only measures." I can’t emphasise enough the word ‘should’. There is a big difference between ‘should’ (i.e what we would like things to be like) and ‘is’ (what the world is actually like). There ‘should’ be no discrimination, but there is. You may ‘think its fair to say’ anything you like, but is there any concrete empirical evidence to back it up? you may ‘think’ something is obvious, but that doesn’t mean that it’s true, and it doesn’t mean that most people agree with you. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's fair to say that most people don't care about the colour, sex,creed, sexuality or religion of the workforce so long as the best person for the job gets the job." The law supports this too. I think a lot of the posts are describing positive discrimination which is illegal if you were to choose a less qualified person due to their protected character, over a more qualified person, which in essence is the best person for the job. Positive action, can be applied if both candidates are of equal ability and qualification. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's fair to say that most people don't care about the colour, sex,creed, sexuality or religion of the workforce so long as the best person for the job gets the job. The law supports this too. I think a lot of the posts are describing positive discrimination which is illegal if you were to choose a less qualified person due to their protected character, over a more qualified person, which in essence is the best person for the job. Positive action, can be applied if both candidates are of equal ability and qualification. " I went through the "positive" discrimination of the Ilea and glc in the 80s..that went well for everyone. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's fair to say that most people don't care about the colour, sex,creed, sexuality or religion of the workforce so long as the best person for the job gets the job. The law supports this too. I think a lot of the posts are describing positive discrimination which is illegal if you were to choose a less qualified person due to their protected character, over a more qualified person, which in essence is the best person for the job. Positive action, can be applied if both candidates are of equal ability and qualification. I went through the "positive" discrimination of the Ilea and glc in the 80s..that went well for everyone. " Ah Ken, no need to say more than that | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Sack these buggers .. at least leeches have a purpose " Nothing drives a conversation forward like a little hate! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People miss the point of it, last Nursery I worked in used to preach it (big international chain) but it wasn't practised. I speak Welsh and was conversing with a parent in Welsh, I got asked "what on earth were you babbling?" seriously! Then I got told 'you're in England, speak English' wtf!!
By the entrance there was the word 'Welcome' in every other language other than Welsh, when I enquired why I got told 'it's a home language, doesn't count'
Not very diverse and inclusive of them at all
That’s always the way with welsh, it’s an amazing language and we just don’t include it enough. And don’t get me started on how the English tried to eradicate it!!!"Did they eradicate all the vowels first…  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People miss the point of it, last Nursery I worked in used to preach it (big international chain) but it wasn't practised. I speak Welsh and was conversing with a parent in Welsh, I got asked "what on earth were you babbling?" seriously! Then I got told 'you're in England, speak English' wtf!!
By the entrance there was the word 'Welcome' in every other language other than Welsh, when I enquired why I got told 'it's a home language, doesn't count'
Not very diverse and inclusive of them at all
That’s always the way with welsh, it’s an amazing language and we just don’t include it enough. And don’t get me started on how the English tried to eradicate it!!!"Nope, you won't find it taught in English Schools alongside French or Spanish and it's a shame | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's fair to say that most people don't care about the colour, sex,creed, sexuality or religion of the workforce so long as the best person for the job gets the job. Exactly ; equality of opportunity and equality of ability should be the only measures. I can’t emphasise enough the word ‘should’. There is a big difference between ‘should’ (i.e what we would like things to be like) and ‘is’ (what the world is actually like). There ‘should’ be no discrimination, but there is. You may ‘think its fair to say’ anything you like, but is there any concrete empirical evidence to back it up? you may ‘think’ something is obvious, but that doesn’t mean that it’s true, and it doesn’t mean that most people agree with you." ^^^This | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Seems like many think Diversity and inclusion is about recruitment only. Which is only a part of what these jobs entail. They look into promotion, staff retention and work place practice. E.g they've implemented a carer framework, so staff can care for an elderly or terminally ill relative without fear of loosing their jobs. They also have to in big companies write reports for the government etc stating for example gender pay gaps and such like. But I guess that doesn't make as interesting discussion I suppose. " Exactly. Our organisation is currently consulting on a policy relating to menopause and fertility treatment, for example. They improved maternity and parental leave policies from the legal bare minimum too (literally the day AFTER I returned from maternity leave of only 4 months duration ) | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it's fair to say that most people don't care about the colour, sex,creed, sexuality or religion of the workforce so long as the best person for the job gets the job. Exactly ; equality of opportunity and equality of ability should be the only measures. I can’t emphasise enough the word ‘should’. There is a big difference between ‘should’ (i.e what we would like things to be like) and ‘is’ (what the world is actually like). There ‘should’ be no discrimination, but there is. You may ‘think its fair to say’ anything you like, but is there any concrete empirical evidence to back it up? you may ‘think’ something is obvious, but that doesn’t mean that it’s true, and it doesn’t mean that most people agree with you. ^^^This "Unfortunately it appears it is very easy for those who are not on the discriminatory end of anything to see there is a discriminatory end to things.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Racism and classism are rampant in my field-academia- which is a predominantly white male middle class arena. Diversity and inclusion is a welcome and much overdue initiative. No one In D+I is saying that you should hire people simply for their characteristics (be it class, race, gender, etc). The point is to reduce the level of discrimination against these characteristics, which is endemic. The problem is that employers do advertise and employ solely on characteristics such as gender and ethnicity The BBC regularly advertise for Asian, Black, persons of colour and specific gender Inclusion, by virtue of the words meaning, is to consider all, but ultimately to employ based on those specifics is demeaning and patronising. Also that strategy is actually more about exclusion than inclusion. The best man (now person) for the job has to be the logical approach Would you take your car to a dentist and have a mechanic fill your cavity? Let's cut through the nonsense and simply give opportunities to the best person whatever their age, gender, ethnicity, sexuality or colour Why wouldn't you? If you read further into those job ads, most will say that they still prioritise merit. They pick the best person for the role. However, if there are two candidates of equal ability- but one happens to be a black woman, whilst the other happens to be a white male, the panel will likely select the black woman. That’s what true Diversity and Inclusion means. If people appear to be of equal ability in terms of a role then the selection then becomes a straight forward choice I get that But that is a fairly infrequent situation, there is usually a criteria in experience or qualification that ranks one higher I am all for choosing the correct candidate regardless Actually, it’s not a straight forward choice. In that scenario (two candidates of equal ability), an employer committed to diversity and inclusion would pick the most under-represented candidate. By contrast, an employer who rejected D+I would probably pick a white male middle class candidate, since they are in the majority of academic roles. In a world of systemic discrimination, the promotion of D+I is never straight forward or ‘natural’. And I agree that the above scenario is rare, but they do occur. And when they do, D+I can make an important difference. And as others have said, D+I goes well beyond recruitment. It plays an essential role in combating discrimination in various areas of an organisation. These scenarios types are all based on the corporate world and what has become a predetermined starting point, I can see this with the white male comment and black female comments previously. Lots of assumptions that in a role / team a white male is always the dominant group, it isn't and in many roles the white male is the least represented group. The argument then usually turns to, those roles are low paid roles, or not the top jobs on the board etc. Those types of jobs are few and far between, yes they need D&I and the white male dominance exists, but as I said the numbers of those roles are few. Diversity and inclusion should be in all roles, from the call centre to the restaurant, supermarket, driver, builders, plumbers and every job out there." BBC made a commitment to rebalance the numbers and that does include favouring under represented groups when hiring , the even set targets that would those groups become the majority by a certain date , they were very open about it. And it seems to be working well to modernise the organisation | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Racism and classism are rampant in my field-academia- which is a predominantly white male middle class arena. Diversity and inclusion is a welcome and much overdue initiative. No one In D+I is saying that you should hire people simply for their characteristics (be it class, race, gender, etc). The point is to reduce the level of discrimination against these characteristics, which is endemic. The problem is that employers do advertise and employ solely on characteristics such as gender and ethnicity The BBC regularly advertise for Asian, Black, persons of colour and specific gender Inclusion, by virtue of the words meaning, is to consider all, but ultimately to employ based on those specifics is demeaning and patronising. Also that strategy is actually more about exclusion than inclusion. The best man (now person) for the job has to be the logical approach Would you take your car to a dentist and have a mechanic fill your cavity? Let's cut through the nonsense and simply give opportunities to the best person whatever their age, gender, ethnicity, sexuality or colour Why wouldn't you? If you read further into those job ads, most will say that they still prioritise merit. They pick the best person for the role. However, if there are two candidates of equal ability- but one happens to be a black woman, whilst the other happens to be a white male, the panel will likely select the black woman. That’s what true Diversity and Inclusion means. If people appear to be of equal ability in terms of a role then the selection then becomes a straight forward choice I get that But that is a fairly infrequent situation, there is usually a criteria in experience or qualification that ranks one higher I am all for choosing the correct candidate regardless Actually, it’s not a straight forward choice. In that scenario (two candidates of equal ability), an employer committed to diversity and inclusion would pick the most under-represented candidate. By contrast, an employer who rejected D+I would probably pick a white male middle class candidate, since they are in the majority of academic roles. In a world of systemic discrimination, the promotion of D+I is never straight forward or ‘natural’. And I agree that the above scenario is rare, but they do occur. And when they do, D+I can make an important difference. And as others have said, D+I goes well beyond recruitment. It plays an essential role in combating discrimination in various areas of an organisation. These scenarios types are all based on the corporate world and what has become a predetermined starting point, I can see this with the white male comment and black female comments previously. Lots of assumptions that in a role / team a white male is always the dominant group, it isn't and in many roles the white male is the least represented group. The argument then usually turns to, those roles are low paid roles, or not the top jobs on the board etc. Those types of jobs are few and far between, yes they need D&I and the white male dominance exists, but as I said the numbers of those roles are few. Diversity and inclusion should be in all roles, from the call centre to the restaurant, supermarket, driver, builders, plumbers and every job out there. BBC made a commitment to rebalance the numbers and that does include favouring under represented groups when hiring , the even set targets that would those groups become the majority by a certain date , they were very open about it. And it seems to be working well to modernise the organisation " Soon to be closed ... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Given the amount of conscious and unintended bias and racist micro aggressions that I’ve had to deal with throughout my working life and the lack of opportunities for disabled people in the workforce, D&I is needed! Homophobia is also ever present in many organisations. I’m all for it unsurprisingly! " I agree wholeheartedly | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I am fascinated by people who are anti 'Woke'. I suspect that we are operating under different impressions of what it means. Please give me your definition of woke and tell me why it's not good to be 'Woke'?" I see none of the "anti woke" lot actually has the balls to answer this question. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I actually don't agree with those departments. Everyone knows that if higher ups in companies want to exclude people, they will do. They just won't overtly say what it's about and will make up another excuse. Managerial positions at big companies are an old boys club because "they fit the culture of what they're looking for". The inclusion and diversity is there for the associate and mid-level and maybe senior roles but as long we stay in our lane, then it's all good and they can say they are a diverse company " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What does “woke” mean please?" The actual definition is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism." But it gets used by the right for "anything we don't like" | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What does “woke” mean please? The actual definition is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism." But it gets used by the right for "anything we don't like"" Begone | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don’t consider them a menace at all. I’m definitely keen that we make workplaces — all work places — as welcoming as possible to any and all. I’m not keen on quotas and positive discrimination though, which does happen sometimes. Jobs should be given to people on their merits alone. No one should be favoured for a specific role because of gender or race, save for a select niche of roles where that is integral to the role. D&I working groups at most organisations don’t apply quotas or seek to positively discriminate though and on balance I think they’re necessary. Sadly, where they’re most effective and embraced is usually where they’re needed the least.. "
Pretty much my views too | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What does “woke” mean please? The actual definition is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism." But it gets used by the right for "anything we don't like"" Thank you for giving a definite explanation | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What does “woke” mean please? The actual definition is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism." But it gets used by the right for "anything we don't like" Thank you for giving a definite explanation " No.. it's one definition .. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What does “woke” mean please? The actual definition is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism." But it gets used by the right for "anything we don't like" Thank you for giving a definite explanation " You are most welcome! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If racist and homophobia weren't still rife in the work place then there wouldn't be a need for D&I departments. People constantly make homophobic comments in front of me because they think I'm straight..... Both of these things still need addressing, it's easy to label it a bad thing or call it 'woke' when it doesn't affect you. " That’s terrible that homophobia is so rampant in your workplace. What have you done to have this addressed? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What does “woke” mean please? The actual definition is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism." But it gets used by the right for "anything we don't like" Thank you for giving a definite explanation " Reads more like an opinion rather than a definition | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
