FabSwingers.com forum: Should train drivers be able to strike?

By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

Yes 100% they should

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe it's me getting older but I'm less sure about striking than I used to be. I absolutely welcome the changes that there have been in employment law since Victorian times but I think any belief that if we took away the right to strike we would end up back there are hugely exaggerated. Massive numbers of people now are employed without employment law and manage just fine - if they're not getting what they expect from a job they get a new one. Allegedly these strikes aren't about the train drivers they're about the far lower paid station staff etc. These jobs have easily transferable skills, if you think you're worth more, go and find a Jo that pays more, you're not owed a job by anyone.

I do understand however that this doesn't always work, nurse's for example have very little way to transfer their skills and passions to other jobs - but then nurses rarely strike.

Like I say, maybe I'm just getting more Conservative as I age

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

Strikers should be allowed

And the company should be able to say fuck you then I’ll hire new staff

If your job is so easily replaceable, you’ll learn real quick how good striking is.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Yes think they should b able to but very frustrating! Was planning on going to folkestone today to swim in sea! X

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon

"So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

Yes. But not on September 5th as I need the train to London for the start of my holiday.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon

"Yes think they should b able to but very frustrating! Was planning on going to folkestone today to swim in sea! X"

Cycle there instead.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

If inflation is 10% and you are being offered 4%… that is a real terms tax cut

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Yes think they should b able to but very frustrating! Was planning on going to folkestone today to swim in sea! X

Cycle there instead."

Bit to far! Can get st Mary's Bay but then it's all uphill on way back! X

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone should be able to strike

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They do them selves any favours though when they strike on days that would bring in a lot of money.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Definitely

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *wingin CatMan
over a year ago

London

Of course they should.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

Yes...the rich have got richer

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *jorkishMan
over a year ago

Seaforth

Yes

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *rhugesMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

So they want 10% pay rise. I wonder if anyone one here working in the private sector is getting a 10% pay rise.

Drivers are striking as well, the guys that earn 50k plus are striking for a pay rise how can anyone have any sympathy toward them

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

And for the sake of clarity… your headline is once again wrong

It’s not the drivers who are striking… it’s the signallers and the lower grade station staff!

They are not the ones making shed loads of money!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *odgerMooreMan
over a year ago

Carlisle

I think trains should be automated and these overpaid prima donna train drivers should get a proper job…. They sit down for 8 hours a day drinking coffee and reading the daily sport push a lever and the train goes… its on rails so no real surprises where its going…. I think we could probably train a 10 year old to do it …. And they’d do it for less that 60 grand!!! My pay rise this year - nothing because the company can’t afford it …. Which in real terms is a 10% pay cut - but I have a job which pays the bills and not much else.

I blame Love Island and Real Housewives for giving train drivers an unrealistic expectation of. Life!!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"So they want 10% pay rise. I wonder if anyone one here working in the private sector is getting a 10% pay rise.

Drivers are striking as well, the guys that earn 50k plus are striking for a pay rise how can anyone have any sympathy toward them "

No… but on average over the last year the public sector staff have been getting roughly 2.5% pay rises… whereas those people working in the private sector have been getting 7.2% pay rises

So again for the sake of clarity.. the RMT were originally offered 2.5%… then 3%…. Now 4%

They are actually asking for 7%…. Which in the world of 10% inflation… is that really unreasonable!!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

And for the sake of clarity… your headline is once again wrong

It’s not the drivers who are striking… it’s the signallers and the lower grade station staff!

They are not the ones making shed loads of money! "

Train drivers are striking on Saturday.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I think trains should be automated and these overpaid prima donna train drivers should get a proper job…. They sit down for 8 hours a day drinking coffee and reading the daily sport push a lever and the train goes… its on rails so no real surprises where its going…. I think we could probably train a 10 year old to do it …. And they’d do it for less that 60 grand!!! My pay rise this year - nothing because the company can’t afford it …. Which in real terms is a 10% pay cut - but I have a job which pays the bills and not much else.

I blame Love Island and Real Housewives for giving train drivers an unrealistic expectation of. Life!!

If train drivers and staff didn’t already do a shed load of overtime and just worked to rule (to the terms of their contracts) You would have no services on Sundays!!! That is the brutal reality of how understaffed the railways are!!!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *riel13Woman
over a year ago

Northampton

Yes... Everyone should be allowed to strike

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *2000ManMan
over a year ago

Worthing

[Removed by poster at 27/07/22 11:29:01]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Train drivers are striking on Saturday."

Don’t conflate what is going on today with what the drivers are doing!!

The people striking today are the lowest grade station staff and safety critical personnel

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ex HolesMan
over a year ago

Up North

Yes

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anchestercreampieloversCouple
over a year ago

manchester

[Removed by poster at 27/07/22 11:37:00]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ickdasterdly51Man
over a year ago

Lingfield

Yes!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anchestercreampieloversCouple
over a year ago

manchester

I blame Love Island and Real Housewives for giving train drivers an unrealistic expectation of. Life!!

Why don't you apply for a job as a train driver if it's that easy ?

You could leave your crappy paid one ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

100%

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *irtydevil666Man
over a year ago

bristol

Yes....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes. Everyone should have the right to strike. We wouldn’t have half the working benefits we have now without strikes.

Who knows, maybe striking now will give our kids and kids kids working benefits that we could only dream of.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

Remove the right to strike.

In a few years you’ll be told the country can’t afford Paternity leave, the Daily Mail will support this campaign and eventually convince you it’s a great idea. Country is struggling we need to tighten our belts.

Next it’ll be the minimum wage or how many hours an employer can make you work. Sack you and employ someone cheaper maybe, but that’ll never happen will it ? …hint P&O Ferries, Government gone silent on that case.

Remove the right to strike, then see what other rights you’ll lose.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inda May SimmonsTV/TS
over a year ago

hexham

YES

Everyone should have the right to withhold their labour

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ocusMan
over a year ago

Cambridge

When financial institutions threaten to move elsewhere the government bends over backwards to give them breaks and lessen regulation…

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By * la carteCouple
over a year ago

Dublin

I blame Love Island and Real Housewives for giving train drivers an unrealistic expectation of. Life!!

What a sad, sad thing to say because realistically speaking, that's where we're headed - an automated world...

...all those lovely human beings put out of jobs, losing their livelihoods and being replaced with machines and computers and electronics...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *dmirer53XXXMan
over a year ago

manchester

I'm sorry but the union is lead by a guy on ego trip who is anti government anti British and on a massive salary, what ever is offered he will refuse.iv traveled the world and believe me British railways r miles behind the rest of the world and badly in need of modernisation which this guy is against,and I bet he has a little cock

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Of course, though I do believe with critical services like these, doing it over days where commuters will be hit the hardest undermines their position. It was Glastonbury last time, this, it's the start of school holidays.

Striking on weekends, cutting Sunday services or similar would still show solidarity though not have such a detrimental effect.

Teachers if they strike, do so out of term time, Fire and Police do so out of seasonal heights.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eadinthecloudsMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Yes yes and yes.

And they should keep striking until they get what they deserve.

As should every other union.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"I'm sorry but the union is lead by a guy on ego trip who is anti government anti British and on a massive salary, what ever is offered he will refuse.iv traveled the world and believe me British railways r miles behind the rest of the world and badly in need of modernisation which this guy is against,and I bet he has a little cock"

To add to the above the Union guy (can't remember his name) said the Government should stay out of it after the recent offer. It was only a few weeks ago they were saying they were avoid discussions and should do all they could to help avoid the strikes.

They'll get what they want as they know it'll cripple the country otherwise.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

Yes

Better working condition and environment and pay since the cost of travel goes up they should also be entitled a better work force creates trains being on time

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eadinthecloudsMan
over a year ago

Manchester

The fact we have working people trotting out Tory attack lines is very alarming. Without Unions you'd still be a pauper in a workhouse.

Every working right you have were won by unions and collective action.

If you're arguing against strikes you're arguing in favour of the rich exploiting you and your whole community ever more aggressively.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Given that it is 50% cheaper to take a domestic flight than it is to use a train I'm not convinced that supporting higher wages and maintaining high staffing levels is that great for meeting environmental targets either.

It also suggests that there are massive savings to be made though I suspect the unions won't allow this and it will carry on being more cost effective to drive and fly than to use the significantly greener alternative.

This of course is a bit of a conundrum for those of us with a social conscience

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I blame Love Island and Real Housewives for giving train drivers an unrealistic expectation of. Life!!

On a website full of bad eggs and general tosh, this is currently today's winner. Absolutely thoroughly AWFUL take

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

And for the sake of clarity… your headline is once again wrong

It’s not the drivers who are striking… it’s the signallers and the lower grade station staff!

They are not the ones making shed loads of money! "

Signallers earn loads I know a fair few. They get free travel, shit load of holiday and quite a few rest days.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How is he anti-British out of interest? He is representing the views and wishes of his members, the strike was (overwhelmingly) voted for

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eadinthecloudsMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"Given that it is 50% cheaper to take a domestic flight than it is to use a train I'm not convinced that supporting higher wages and maintaining high staffing levels is that great for meeting environmental targets either.

This of course is a bit of a conundrum for those of us with a social conscience

Mr"

It's nothing to do with the salary of a train driver.

Train tickets are massively over inflated because the entire economic model of rail in this country means there's no competition. Train companies can charge absurd fairs and make stupid profit margins to pad their pockets. This money goes back to shareholders and directors.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By * la carteCouple
over a year ago

Dublin

"So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

And for the sake of clarity… your headline is once again wrong

It’s not the drivers who are striking… it’s the signallers and the lower grade station staff!

They are not the ones making shed loads of money!

Signallers earn loads I know a fair few. They get free travel, shit load of holiday and quite a few rest days. "

And I'm sure you prefer them to be well rested so as there's no fatal errors made, just like with pilots and air traffic controllers

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the point at the centre of this is based around the fact that instead of pulling people down to other's levels (whether it be pay, conditions etc), the focus should rather be about pulling people up.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eadinthecloudsMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"I think the point at the centre of this is based around the fact that instead of pulling people down to other's levels (whether it be pay, conditions etc), the focus should rather be about pulling people up. "

This!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By * la carteCouple
over a year ago

Dublin

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ammo89Man
over a year ago

Aberdeen

"So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

Absolutely they should

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

And for the sake of clarity… your headline is once again wrong

It’s not the drivers who are striking… it’s the signallers and the lower grade station staff!

They are not the ones making shed loads of money!

Signallers earn loads I know a fair few. They get free travel, shit load of holiday and quite a few rest days.

And I'm sure you prefer them to be well rested so as there's no fatal errors made, just like with pilots and air traffic controllers

Of course but you would not believe the amount of time they get off. I don’t know any that are on under £50k but that’s just me. An ex who worked for them I use to see it all.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

This of course is a bit of a conundrum for those of us with a social conscience

It's nothing to do with the salary of a train driver.

You do know that pension funds ect are also funded by shares ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ldhillhotwifeCouple
over a year ago

Old Hill

The rail workers are striking for all the right reasons, wish more workers would do the same. This country population is being screwed by the wealthy few.

The policy of both PM candidates is making striking illegal for essential workers.

Place that alongside laws that now ban loud protest and what sort of country have you actually got?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The fact we have working people trotting out Tory attack lines is very alarming. Without Unions you'd still be a pauper in a workhouse.

Every working right you have were won by unions and collective action.

If you're arguing against strikes you're arguing in favour of the rich exploiting you and your whole community ever more aggressively. "

My issue with this argument is that it relies on the world being the same as it was in the days of the work house and quite simply it isn't.

It also assumes that collective action isn't possible without striking and I'm not convinced on this. In my personal (and therefore asmittedly limited) experience, I've seen less and less union membership coupled with increased pay and conditions. I stopped being a union member when it became clear that they weren't actually interested in supporting 5 blokes in an obscure factory and the 5 of us negotiated ourselves. I'd never go back, all a union is is an expensive political party, you only get to vote if you pay and, much like every other political party ever, they're run by corrupt individuals whose main interest is maintaining the strength of the party and their position in it - not helping the people they allegedly represent.

I believe unions did a great deal of good but they're outdated in today's world where despite being allegedly left wing, they're more interested in maintaining the status quo than any tory ever.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eadinthecloudsMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"The fact we have working people trotting out Tory attack lines is very alarming. Without Unions you'd still be a pauper in a workhouse.

Every working right you have were won by unions and collective action.

If you're arguing against strikes you're arguing in favour of the rich exploiting you and your whole community ever more aggressively.

My issue with this argument is that it relies on the world being the same as it was in the days of the work house and quite simply it isn't.

I believe unions did a great deal of good but they're outdated in today's world where despite being allegedly left wing, they're more interested in maintaining the status quo than any tory ever.

Mr"

What on earth are you talking about!?

How do you think this world progressed from Victorian workhouses?

It wasn't fairydust or employees asking very politely and crossing their fingers...

When you make this 'theyre all the same and everything is useless' argument the status quo won't change and the rich will continue to get richer and we'll continue to slide backwards towards the workhouse.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *odgerMooreMan
over a year ago

Carlisle

I blame Love Island and Real Housewives for giving train drivers an unrealistic expectation of. Life!!

On a website full of bad eggs and general tosh, this is currently today's winner. Absolutely thoroughly AWFUL take"

Its also firmly tongue in cheek ‘middle england outraged at the audacity that people want a wage that keeps parity with the economy’ type rant. My fault for not making that obvious.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I blame Love Island and Real Housewives for giving train drivers an unrealistic expectation of. Life!!

On a website full of bad eggs and general tosh, this is currently today's winner. Absolutely thoroughly AWFUL take

Its also firmly tongue in cheek ‘middle england outraged at the audacity that people want a wage that keeps parity with the economy’ type rant. My fault for not making that obvious. "

No problem! The best forms of satire are those which could also be perfectly believable...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

100 % everyone should strike, I'm talking a national walk out all around the country. That's the only way it will ever change.

It's nothing to do with inflation or protecting the economy, it's about keeping the class system in check and making sure people still remain grateful for their basic living wages. The second people start to challenge that, their narrative begins to crumble.

Don't be mad at the people who slightly inconvenience your day, be mad at what this country has become.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This of course is a bit of a conundrum for those of us with a social conscience

It's nothing to do with the salary of a train driver.

Are you suggesting that the shareholders and directors of airlines don't get their pockets padded? Basically, what I'm asking is how it is cheaper to haul 300 tonnes of metal until the sky than it is to roll it along the ground. Shareholders and big bosses exist in every industry, the wage disparity between the top echelons of Ryanair and the crew that clean the cabins is going to be every bit as big - probably bigger- than any range in the rail industry so I'm not convinced.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *affeine DuskMan
over a year ago

Caerphilly

I blame Love Island and Real Housewives for giving train drivers an unrealistic expectation of. Life!!

On a website full of bad eggs and general tosh, this is currently today's winner. Absolutely thoroughly AWFUL take"

I love General Tosh, he's a good lad.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eaSlutsCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Any worker should absolutely have the right to strike.

It's extremely concerning to hear that the candidates to be next PM are discussing plans to ban strikes from public sector workers! Combine that with the new protest laws that were rolled out and I struggle to see how democratic the government can claim to be. Especially when their leader was forced out and now the PM will be chosen by a tiny portion of the whole UK.

C x

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ocusMan
over a year ago

Cambridge

You do know that pension funds ect are also funded by shares ?

You do know the fund managers that run these things aren’t doing it out of the kindness of their hearts? They take massive profits out which means the final pensions are lower than they potentially could be.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *rhugesMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Train drivers are striking on Saturday.

Don’t conflate what is going on today with what the drivers are doing!!

The people striking today are the lowest grade station staff and safety critical personnel "

Check your facts the drivers are holding their own strikes later. The average wage of a rail worker is £32k .None of them are badly paid.

They're just selfish greedy individuals.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *rhugesMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

I blame Love Island and Real Housewives for giving train drivers an unrealistic expectation of. Life!!

Why don't you apply for a job as a train driver if it's that easy ?

You could leave your crappy paid one ?

Because it's really difficult to get in because loads of people are trying because they are so over paid

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Train drivers are striking on Saturday.

Don’t conflate what is going on today with what the drivers are doing!!

The people striking today are the lowest grade station staff and safety critical personnel

Check your facts the drivers are holding their own strikes later. The average wage of a rail worker is £32k .None of them are badly paid.

They're just selfish greedy individuals."

No. Just no

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

Its ironic thst the tory government are opposed to the withdrawal of Labour when thst is what they used to get Johnson out...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

I agree they should be able to strike.

A better question would be, how exactly could you stop them striking?

How do you FORCE people to work in the UK?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *valon7Woman
over a year ago

Lancaster

Striking is no longer a case of downing tools and walking out as it was back in the '70's.Each day of action has to be worked out in advance and the implications to all involved and the effect it has on,in this case commuters,will have been taken into consideration.Personally im in favour of a 'work to rule' approach which i tend to adopt anyway,as it means less financial hardship!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

Train drivers are striking on Saturday.

Don’t conflate what is going on today with what the drivers are doing!!

The people striking today are the lowest grade station staff and safety critical personnel

Check your facts the drivers are holding their own strikes later. The average wage of a rail worker is £32k .None of them are badly paid.

They're just selfish greedy individuals."

And the rail company shareholders and CEOs who happily take millions of pounds are selfless saints?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eadinthecloudsMan
over a year ago

Manchester

This of course is a bit of a conundrum for those of us with a social conscience

It's nothing to do with the salary of a train driver.

Mr"

No.

I just explained.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"Yes think they should b able to but very frustrating! Was planning on going to folkestone today to swim in sea! X"
Yes, it can be that too. I hope that you can get there another day to swim too

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Train drivers are striking on Saturday.

Don’t conflate what is going on today with what the drivers are doing!!

The people striking today are the lowest grade station staff and safety critical personnel

Check your facts the drivers are holding their own strikes later. The average wage of a rail worker is £32k .None of them are badly paid.

They're just selfish greedy individuals."

Again you fall into the trap…. You are talking about the average wage

The RMT are representing the LOWEST grades…. Those people are not making your so called average!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry

Attacking train drivers will not lead to better pay and conditions for other workers. All it does is emboldened the government and business to continue to take liberties and show contempt for working people and their weakness.

People fail to see the bigger picture and fall into the politics of divide and rule of working people. It's a cynical ploy to make working people attack train drivers for their wage and their unity in protecting their profession rather than attack the roots of their problems with wages and T&C's. It's an exercise in turning working people against working people rather than those that abuse peoples labour. They don't want people to to ask how we can improve our working conditions, they want people to attack those who fight to secure and defend the quality of their jobs.

Train drivers are doing the same job as they were 3 years ago. Due to inflation over 3 years plus a recent rapid increase they are being paid a lot less than 3 years ago. Granted lots of people are in the same boat and as is they way of the world lots aren't getting fair pay or T&C's. But the answer is not to attack drivers for standing on the principal of not accepting effectively a pay cut. People are making plenty of profit out of our railway and lots of it is going straight into the hands of foreign railway operators. Attacking train drivers will not lead to better pay and conditions for other workers. It just weakness futher the unity of working people.

And I don't buy the raising wages will only raise inflation argument too. Why is it working people are always expected to shoulder the burden of hard times? Why is it we talk about raising costs to cover wage increases before we talk about cutting profits to cover wage increases?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I received a grand total of a 5.9% payrise this year back in April. What they didn't tell us was that included the 5.3% increase from the minimum wage. So we are a whole 9p above the minimum again. oh boy I can Retire.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

The strikers have rendered the rail service unusable. Impossible to plan train travel with any level of certainty now. They stated with very little public support and now have even less. They are living in a fantasy world.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Striking is no longer a case of downing tools and walking out as it was back in the '70's.Each day of action has to be worked out in advance and the implications to all involved and the effect it has on,in this case commuters,will have been taken into consideration.Personally im in favour of a 'work to rule' approach which i tend to adopt anyway,as it means less financial hardship!"

They don’t take the effect on commuters into consideration at all.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"I received a grand total of a 5.9% payrise this year back in April. What they didn't tell us was that included the 5.3% increase from the minimum wage. So we are a whole 9p above the minimum again. oh boy I can Retire."

Typical case for most people in this country i believe

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *edonandHellCouple
over a year ago

Peterborough

Most definalty, that's why I'm on strike today.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

yes.... they have my full support

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ingo00Man
over a year ago

Cowley

I like the style of strike adopted by other countries. Still run the service but open the ticket barriers. Commuters stay on side and travel freely and the companies get hit in the pocket

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"I like the style of strike adopted by other countries. Still run the service but open the ticket barriers. Commuters stay on side and travel freely and the companies get hit in the pocket"

Unfortunately that is illegal in the UK

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *valon7Woman
over a year ago

Lancaster

They don’t take the effect on commuters into consideration at all.

I believe,and ive seen for myself that shuttle buses are being laid on for commuters.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ingo00Man
over a year ago

Cowley

"I like the style of strike adopted by other countries. Still run the service but open the ticket barriers. Commuters stay on side and travel freely and the companies get hit in the pocket

Unfortunately that is illegal in the UK"

Thank you I wasn't aware of that!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ir LixalotMan
over a year ago

Blackburn

What pisses me off is that it's always about percentage increases.. it's bollocks.. the £60k driver strikes for say 10%.. the cleaners, who arguably work harder for less will get 10% of 20k.. if there's a pot of money to pay for the pay rises, why not level up and split it equally.. it's because of greed and selfishness that this isn't done imo..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

They don’t take the effect on commuters into consideration at all.

I believe,and ive seen for myself that shuttle buses are being laid on for commuters."

Not where I live. Nonsense

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Work to rule doesn’t work for the railways as the are chronically understaffed…

Even if they went work to rule you would either basically have no Sunday services… or a 15 to 20% reduction in the service Monday to Saturday to cover some Sunday services!

Railways chronically rely on staff to do overtime

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What pisses me off is that it's always about percentage increases.. it's bollocks.. the £60k driver strikes for say 10%.. the cleaners, who arguably work harder for less will get 10% of 20k.. if there's a pot of money to pay for the pay rises, why not level up and split it equally.. it's because of greed and selfishness that this isn't done imo.. "

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ocusMan
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Why is it working people are always expected to shoulder the burden of hard times? Why is it we talk about raising costs to cover wage increases before we talk about cutting profits to cover wage increases?"

This!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *imbo59seMan
over a year ago

North Norfolk area

As has been stated above, this strike is RMT.. ie Network Rail and TOC staff, not drivers (ASLEF)

As an ex TOC employee (worked in combined NR/TOC Control Centre), can tell you that NR staff are on greatly enhanced pay and T&C's as opposed to their TOC colleagues. For example

Overtime.. TOC std hours, NR 1.5 hours, plus time off in lieu.

Don't for 1 minute think that NR signallers are badly paid, not far short of drivers pay!

Let's not also ignore, the negotiators (both sides) apparently agreed on 4% this year, and the same next year! But were overruled by the RMT Executive!!

For those who keep harping on about vast profits going to shareholders etc., the profit margins on ticket sales are in the 2 - 3% region, and as the TOCs are under government control, who do you think profits go to!!!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *bostCouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Without reading the rest of the thread. Any worker should have the right to withdraw their labour.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

Overtime.. TOC std hours, NR 1.5 hours, plus time off in lieu.

utter bollocks! overtime is paid at normal flat rate

rest day working is paid at time and a quarter

night shift time and quarter

sundays time & half

only time you get days in lui is if you work a bank holiday or bank holiday falls on your rest day

bank holidays vary depending on which it is and what has been agreed between staff member and management time and half plus lui dayy or triple time and no lui day

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You do know that pension funds ect are also funded by shares ?

So a fund manager works for free? Gets no pay for their expertise or their support team?

I'd rather pay them than put a DIY investor in charge.

You haven't factored in the alpha they potentially provide.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Without reading the rest of the thread. Any worker should have the right to withdraw their labour. "

Correct, anyone can hand in their notice and seek alternative employment.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington

Let them strike have a day of

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

We got 3.5% in January. Private sector. 3.5%. No further review till Jan 2023.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ovespudsMan
over a year ago

Swindon

Speaking as a former driver with over 40 years service, it's reassuring to know that so many support the right to strike. As for the ignorant "Knockers", when was the last time you missed out on a family evening because you had to go to bed early in order to get up at 2am, drive for 45 minutes to get to work, do a TEN hour shift and on your last journey have some poor sole jump in front of you train and get spread over the countryside?

Been there, done that and the experience of cutting a person in half will NEVER leave me.

Now tell me Train Drivers are overpaid

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *Starlord69XMan
over a year ago

Plymouth

Isn't it always the way that when workers strike for whatever reason the media trot out the same old rhetoric that they're "holding the country to ransom" or that somehow they're targeting us the public, and they'll use train drivers who earn 50k per year blah blah blah, but they never highlight the absurd amount of profit the PRIVATISED companies and shareholders are raking in off the backs of most of their employees who are NOT on 50k a year, but probably not on more than minimum wage, everyone who is middle or upper class isn't feeling the same pinch as those on the lowest wages 7-10% might sound a lot to be asking for but take in to account how much everything else has gone up ....my gas and electric has gone up 45% per month ....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

If they are not getting the pay and conditions they deserve then hell yes as should everyone ..big business make alot of profit for shareholders on the blood sweat n tears of the working man/woman

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Strikers should be allowed

And the company should be able to say fuck you then I’ll hire new staff

If your job is so easily replaceable, you’ll learn real quick how good striking is. "

This

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *den-Valley-coupleCouple
over a year ago

Cumbria

Capitalism has stopped working or is no longer working to help the working man Probably need more strikes.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Network rail made £1.6bn profit last year and the CEO is on £600k basic salary

They can afford pay rises.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ikeafud248Man
over a year ago

Ipswich

So by your argument when we have deflation we should be reducing the salary of all those people on strike now?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"So by your argument when we have deflation we should be reducing the salary of all those people on strike now?"

We had that in the 2008 recession. Wages shrank.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Network rail made £1.6bn profit last year and the CEO is on £600k basic salary

They can afford pay rises. "

How much is acceptable for a CEO of a major company?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Network rail made £1.6bn profit last year and the CEO is on £600k basic salary

They can afford pay rises.

How much is acceptable for a CEO of a major company?"

£5.73, plus free tea and biscuits on Wednesdays. Half a day's holiday for each of Hanukkah, Easter Day and Eid

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Network rail made £1.6bn profit last year and the CEO is on £600k basic salary

They can afford pay rises.

How much is acceptable for a CEO of a major company?

£5.73, plus free tea and biscuits on Wednesdays. Half a day's holiday for each of Hanukkah, Easter Day and Eid

That will incentivise people to progress and work up the ladder.

We should just go for an equal pay level across the board regardless of responsibility, expertise or qualifications.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Capitalism has stopped working or is no longer working to help the working man Probably need more strikes."

It sounds a bit conspiracy theory to say capitalism is broken but it feels like it is.

We have a huge amount of wealth in the country held by very few, the wealth divide is huge but more people in poverty than ever before. People in full time employment claiming benefits because of how little they earn while their employers make huge profits. People in full time employment using food banks people choosing between, heat fuel or food. Inflation is out of control. And then the government claim psyrises will be bad for the economy, the economy is well and truly fucked already. As you say the system is broken, completely broken

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Network rail made £1.6bn profit last year and the CEO is on £600k basic salary

They can afford pay rises.

How much is acceptable for a CEO of a major company?

£5.73, plus free tea and biscuits on Wednesdays. Half a day's holiday for each of Hanukkah, Easter Day and Eid

That will incentivise people to progress and work up the ladder.

We should just go for an equal pay level across the board regardless of responsibility, expertise or qualifications.

If I'm a CEO though, I'd like my birthday off. I've only ever had my birthday off school or work if it fell on a weekend. I had appraisals on my birthday for three consecutive years so yeah. Just for me, like. Birthdays off

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Network rail made £1.6bn profit last year and the CEO is on £600k basic salary

They can afford pay rises.

How much is acceptable for a CEO of a major company?

£5.73, plus free tea and biscuits on Wednesdays. Half a day's holiday for each of Hanukkah, Easter Day and Eid

That will incentivise people to progress and work up the ladder.

We should just go for an equal pay level across the board regardless of responsibility, expertise or qualifications.

No holiday leave available in your current job?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Network rail made £1.6bn profit last year and the CEO is on £600k basic salary

They can afford pay rises.

How much is acceptable for a CEO of a major company?

£5.73, plus free tea and biscuits on Wednesdays. Half a day's holiday for each of Hanukkah, Easter Day and Eid

That will incentivise people to progress and work up the ladder.

We should just go for an equal pay level across the board regardless of responsibility, expertise or qualifications.

No holiday leave available in your current job?"

Not in the month of my birthday, no. Seriously. Operational constraints.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Work to rule doesn’t work for the railways as the are chronically understaffed…

Even if they went work to rule you would either basically have no Sunday services… or a 15 to 20% reduction in the service Monday to Saturday to cover some Sunday services!

Railways chronically rely on staff to do overtime "

The bosses should exercise some personal responsibility and figure that shit out, then.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *orkiebar51Man
over a year ago

Keighley

Remember, fascists don't always wear uniforms and black leather boots. They wear Gucci and Prada and assume that everyone agrees with the Daily Mail or the Torygraph

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tephenBunChowMan
over a year ago

Haywards heath/Waterlooville

Yes they should, even though it's inconvenient for the general public.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I think Elon Musk should end world poverty and strikes tomorrow someone should have or be worth $230 billion. Fuck, he could give everyone in the world tomorrow $1 million and still be the richest guy on the plant.

As for strikes, I think yes they should but under the proviso that they can lose there job if they do..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Er, yeah.

Collective action and worker solidarity, one strikes we all strike.

They love to sew seeds of discontent and infighting, watch us scrabble and scrap over who gets a fiver more whilst everything else is being stripped for parts in plain sight.

I just, urgh, want to give up, but that's what they want? So you carry on, begrudgingly.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Personally I think Elon Musk should end world poverty and strikes tomorrow someone should have or be worth $230 billion. Fuck, he could give everyone in the world tomorrow $1 million and still be the richest guy on the plant.

As for strikes, I think yes they should but under the proviso that they can lose there job if they do.."

He could certainly do a lot to help the world, fix world hunger, fix world homelessness.

As for giving everyone money...

if we take your 230 billion as his wealth between the approx 8 billion on earth, that's about $30 each...

He and Bezos and the other top 10 could fix most issues, but if they were willing to do that they prolly wouldn't have been the kind of people to amass that kind of wealth in the first place.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

100% support the rail workers to strike.

Their value is their labour, and if it's not being valued they should remove their labour. Even better, take it elsewhere.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

Train drivers (ASLEF) are striking on Saturday the 30th across several operators and again on Saturday August the 13th.

Because the dispute is spread around several operators, and everyone is on different terms, it’s hard to say exactly what will resolve it. There’s probably not a “one size fits all” solution and the spectrum of pay has a variation of over £20K between the highest paid and the lowest paid drivers. As far as I am aware though, none of the companies involved have offered any pay revision at all. Mine certainly hasn’t, despite promising to bring our pay up to match those of neighbouring operators since 2015.

So, basically, we’re striking for more than the 0% we’ve been offered.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Without reading the rest of the thread. Any worker should have the right to withdraw their labour. "

So you would be ok if all essential services downed tools tomorrow? Police? Fire service? Ambulance drivers? Doctors? Nurses? Transport? We need to be able to rely on these things.

There are better ways to get things resolved. Strikes are decades out of date and just make things worse

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Speaking as a former driver with over 40 years service, it's reassuring to know that so many support the right to strike. As for the ignorant "Knockers", when was the last time you missed out on a family evening because you had to go to bed early in order to get up at 2am, drive for 45 minutes to get to work, do a TEN hour shift and on your last journey have some poor sole jump in front of you train and get spread over the countryside?

Been there, done that and the experience of cutting a person in half will NEVER leave me.

Now tell me Train Drivers are overpaid

Calling people ignorant doesn’t achieve anything. Lots of people have tough work lives and make major sacrifices

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As for strikes, I think yes they should but under the proviso that they can lose there job if they do..

He could certainly do a lot to help the world, fix world hunger, fix world homelessness.

As for giving everyone money...

if we take your 230 billion as his wealth between the approx 8 billion on earth, that's about $30 each...

He and Bezos and the other top 10 could fix most issues, but if they were willing to do that they prolly wouldn't have been the kind of people to amass that kind of wealth in the first place."

They’re probably asset rich , cash poor

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Isn't it always the way that when workers strike for whatever reason the media trot out the same old rhetoric that they're "holding the country to ransom" or that somehow they're targeting us the public, and they'll use train drivers who earn 50k per year blah blah blah, but they never highlight the absurd amount of profit the PRIVATISED companies and shareholders are raking in off the backs of most of their employees who are NOT on 50k a year, but probably not on more than minimum wage, everyone who is middle or upper class isn't feeling the same pinch as those on the lowest wages 7-10% might sound a lot to be asking for but take in to account how much everything else has gone up ....my gas and electric has gone up 45% per month .... "

“Most” rail workers are on minimum wage, are they? I don’t think so …

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"So, here we are again with yet another train strike, we have already had few strikes this month.

I say that yes they should, but of course it is the commuters who will be affected the most, how long is the strike and what is it about, is it about pay? I think that it is just for 1 day this time.

Everyone should be allowed to strike, it is a basic human right to be able to withdraw your labour because the terms and conditions of your employment are not acceptable to you. The right to withdraw your services is the only reason that workers rights and conditions have progressed from the middle ages.

Without strikes, we wouldn't have weekends, or bank holidays, or even holidays at all. there would be no health and safety, no fair pay, no lunch break, etc...

Cal

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Capitalism has stopped working or is no longer working to help the working man Probably need more strikes.

It sounds a bit conspiracy theory to say capitalism is broken but it feels like it is.

“Inflation is out of control”.

If you really are 50 years old, you have lived through much higher inflation than this.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"Without reading the rest of the thread. Any worker should have the right to withdraw their labour.

So you would be ok if all essential services downed tools tomorrow? Police? Fire service? Ambulance drivers? Doctors? Nurses? Transport? We need to be able to rely on these things.

There are better ways to get things resolved. Strikes are decades out of date and just make things worse "

Do you not think that there has been a lot of negotiations prior to the start of industrial action? Strikes come as a last resort when everything else has been tried, not as the first step in a negotiation. All of the "Better Ways" have already been tried.

Cal

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

As for strikes, I think yes they should but under the proviso that they can lose there job if they do.."

He could give everyone in the world a million dollars, could he? Might want to check that calculation. Based on the 230 billion figure you suggest, I make that a shade under 30 dollars per person …

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Er, yeah.

Collective action and worker solidarity, one strikes we all strike.

They love to sew seeds of discontent and infighting, watch us scrabble and scrap over who gets a fiver more whilst everything else is being stripped for parts in plain sight.

I just, urgh, want to give up, but that's what they want? So you carry on, begrudgingly. "

Who’s “they”?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eandmrsjones69Couple
over a year ago

Middle England

"Train drivers (ASLEF) are striking on Saturday the 30th across several operators and again on Saturday August the 13th.

So, basically, we’re striking for more than the 0% we’ve been offered. "

You've been offered 0%? Please explain.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes they should be able to strike...

Wishing them good-luck...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

In principle, yes in normal times. But there seems to be a lack of gratitude towards customers who bailed out the rail industry throughout Covid.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"In principle, yes in normal times. But there seems to be a lack of gratitude towards customers who bailed out the rail industry throughout Covid. "
ask where the money from the "bailout " went give you a clue not into working front line staffs pockets .but management and shareholders did ok with nice bonuses and dividend payouts over £500million profits made and paid out on by rail franchises during the pandemic your aiming at the wrong target

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Train drivers (ASLEF) are striking on Saturday the 30th across several operators and again on Saturday August the 13th.

So, basically, we’re striking for more than the 0% we’ve been offered. "

I'm over simplifying but if another operator offers higher pay why not leave and work for them?

In my industry if you don't pay appropriately someone else will.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

" You've been offered 0%? Please explain."

We have been offered nothing. Since at least 2016 we have been told that our pay was being reviewed with an aim to bring us in line with the rest of the industry, and every year there’s been some excuse not to do so. Franchise extension, temporary “issues”, the pandemic, the company being “in difficulties” which turned out to be massive cooking the books and tens of millions of pounds not being paid back to the treasury like it should, being taken under government control, and then, in March, the “new management” (the old management with new ties) saying “the treasury says no” and walking away from talks. So the net result is zero increase.

Hope that’s clear.

I'm over simplifying but if another operator offers higher pay why not leave and work for them?

In my industry if you don't pay appropriately someone else will.

I, along with many I am sure, am seriously considering it. Certainly my company suffers from a huge migration of recently qualified drivers to other operators. The biggest issue for those of us with years of experience is the same obstacle that most people can’t clear to do the job in the first place; our investment in our route knowledge. I have over five hundred miles of track memorised to the point that I can drive it flat out in any conditions. Aside from the “normal” obstacles to relocation, uprooting children from schools, spouses from jobs, selling houses and starting again in a different part of the country, I am not sure that I want to throw away the twenty odd years of experience I have invested in my current route knowledge to start again from scratch. One of the things that makes the railways such a safe form of travel is that the driver at the front absolutely knows where he is and what’s happening. It’s taken me two decades to get where I am now and I don’t have another two decades in me to get back to this point in another area.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

It's not as easy as going to other operators when across all of Greater Manchester, into parts of Merseyside and Cheshire plus large swathes of Yorkshire, there's only one train operator. Northern. Unless someone wishes to completely move to a different part of the country, there are not many operators to choose from.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes... Everyone should be allowed to strike "

Maybe pray the day you need cutting out of a crashed car the firemen are not on strike. Or the ambulance staff. Or nurses. Or doctors. Or Police. Pray the hospital has electricity, or water as the utilities staff are not on strike I believe there are some services we really really need 24/7.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

"In principle, yes in normal times. But there seems to be a lack of gratitude towards customers who bailed out the rail industry throughout Covid. ask where the money from the "bailout " went give you a clue not into working front line staffs pockets .but management and shareholders did ok with nice bonuses and dividend payouts over £500million profits made and paid out on by rail franchises during the pandemic your aiming at the wrong target "

The rail industry bailout was +£15 billion of taxpayers money. £500 mil is a tiny fraction of that number.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *immyinreadingMan
over a year ago

henley on thames

"Yes they should be able to strike...

Wishing them good-luck..."

You don’t rely on trains then?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Yes they should be able to strike...

Wishing them good-luck...

You don’t rely on trains then? "

LOL would the implication being you cannot support the strikers if it in any way adversely affects you?

Sounds a little reductive and selfish to me.

Go strikers!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ean counterMan
over a year ago

Market Harborough / Kettering

Unfortunately for the railway unions striking doesn't have the affect that it used to. Everyone is so used to working at home now so it doesn't bother the office workers. What it does affect are the many manual workers who can't do their job off site and won't get paid! This is the last thing many people need right now! Personally I think the unions are a bunch of arseholes but that's my opinion

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Without strikes, we wouldn't have weekends, or bank holidays, or even holidays at all. there would be no health and safety, no fair pay, no lunch break, etc...

Cal"

This and well said..

It's a huge step to take, not taken lightly and the last option so when other workers choose that having satisfied all the criteria set in place then they have my full support..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

The rail industry bailout was +£15 billion of taxpayers money. £500 mil is a tiny fraction of that number. "

It wasn’t a bailout, it was a calculated decision to continue to run the railway rather than face the enormous cost and work of mothballing it and then recommissioning it afterwards.

The railway is a national asset. It costs money whether it’s running or not. It would, ultimately, have cost more to recommission it after any period sat idle. All safety critical staff work under a system of continuous performance review and assessment/training; suspending that would have created a backlog that make the current staff shortages look like nothing. That’s before you even start with the maintenance regimen for track, trains and infrastructure.

A lack of gratitude for being required to work all through the pandemic and its uncertainties? I think that’s more than a little unfair. Railway workers shouldered their share of keeping the country running throughout the period, just the same as all the other “key workers” that turned up to work every day.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" You've been offered 0%? Please explain.

Hope that’s clear.

I'm over simplifying but if another operator offers higher pay why not leave and work for them?

In my industry if you don't pay appropriately someone else will.

Thanks, it's rare to get such a great response to a question on here.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *mnipotent_BehemothMan
over a year ago

near Merry Hill shopping centre

It is now so hard to ballot for strike action that the percentage of membership that needs to vote is way over what selects our government.

So just think that feeling of the members is so strong that they have taken part and voted for action and lose any pay during the strike action that the strength of feeling should be respected, and the management have failed in it employee relations to get to this point.

The right to withdraw labour has to be a right, it is always a last resort to other option is just to leave and find something else but in a safety critical industry like the railways that would cost them far more in recruitment and training.

NHS will be out on strike next from what I can see.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

Thanks, it's rare to get such a great response to a question on here."

You’re welcome.

It was a good question. As a direct result of privatisation there’s nearly £28K difference between the lowest and the highest paid train drivers on the UK network. That, alone, causes a huge amount of dissatisfaction in the grade, because it’s really not a job that you can “just go elsewhere”; not easily anyway.

I am tempted though, I will confess.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *valon7Woman
over a year ago

Lancaster

Been there, done that and the experience of cutting a person in half will NEVER leave me.

Now tell me Train Drivers are overpaid

I cant begin to imagine how awful that must be and i hope some counselling is available for any driver who finds themself in that situation but i do have to say that many people ,particularly in the social care sector, also work some very antisocial hours very often on inadequate rates of pay.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not just drivers that are striking and not every employee is on a driver's wage.

I personally think that if employees were treated fairly then there would be a need to strike. If you work a job and get a 5% pay rise but inflation is 10% then you have taken a pay cut no matter how you dress it up.

Posties, Police, Fire, NHS, HMPPS and many more will follow soon because it's becoming impossible to live with a pay cut every year.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not just drivers that are striking and not every employee is on a driver's wage.

Posties, Police, Fire, NHS, HMPPS and many more will follow soon because it's becoming impossible to live with a pay cut every year."

But we can't all get a payrise. Some business can't afford it, they are being squeezed as well.

I'd prefer an inflation reduced wage than no wage at all.

Businesses don't tend to have an endless supply of money. Neither do Governments (I know ours piss it up against the wall, as have many before on both sides).

My question back......is where does it end? We all get a payrise and then loads of people are made redundant?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thanks, it's rare to get such a great response to a question on here.

You’re welcome.

I am tempted though, I will confess. "

This was far too civilised. Can you slag me off so we can get back to normal haha?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

Another point I’d like to make is that, despite earning well as a train driver, my pay still gets pretty much all spent each month. I don’t live a life of penthouses, fast cars and luxury. I support three generations of my family in my home, and my disposable income, such as it is, gets spent locally. While I have a bit of a buffer against rising costs, the money I had been putting to one side each month is now being spent on increased bills. This means that, in order to keep saving a modest amount each month, which is the “responsible” thing to do, I have to do so by cutting my discretionary spending. So no coffee from the corner cafe, buzz my hair with the clippers rather than a tenner or more to the barber, less days/meals/trips out etc. Now, before people shout “I already can’t afford all those things” and tell me to economise and draw my belt in, I’d like to point out all the business, families and individuals that are dependent upon people like me spending my wages like that. Yes, I can afford to live on less, yes, I could take myself and my family elsewhere, but if everyone in my situation did that, how do you think it would affect the community, as a whole, that we leave behind?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oah VailMan
over a year ago

Dover

"This was far too civilised. Can you slag me off so we can get back to normal haha?"

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not just drivers that are striking and not every employee is on a driver's wage.

Posties, Police, Fire, NHS, HMPPS and many more will follow soon because it's becoming impossible to live with a pay cut every year.

But we can't all get a payrise. Some business can't afford it, they are being squeezed as well.

I'd prefer an inflation reduced wage than no wage at all.

Businesses don't tend to have an endless supply of money. Neither do Governments (I know ours piss it up against the wall, as have many before on both sides).

My question back......is where does it end? We all get a payrise and then loads of people are made redundant?"

In the last decade wages for the public sector have been reduced through things called new terms or in plain English shit pay and more hours.

Staff that were there before the changes are on old terms and will earn more but won't go for promotion because it's a pay cut.

Th government have made cut backs without announcing them using the new contracts. Pay people a liveable wage to do jobs for the government and staff retention will go up, better quality of staff will be promoted and the service that the public get will improve.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not just drivers that are striking and not every employee is on a driver's wage.

Posties, Police, Fire, NHS, HMPPS and many more will follow soon because it's becoming impossible to live with a pay cut every year.

But we can't all get a payrise. Some business can't afford it, they are being squeezed as well.

I'd prefer an inflation reduced wage than no wage at all.

Businesses don't tend to have an endless supply of money. Neither do Governments (I know ours piss it up against the wall, as have many before on both sides).

My question back......is where does it end? We all get a payrise and then loads of people are made redundant?

In the last decade wages for the public sector have been reduced through things called new terms or in plain English shit pay and more hours.

Staff that were there before the changes are on old terms and will earn more but won't go for promotion because it's a pay cut.

It doesn't work that way. Elements of the Public Sector are bloated and frankly useless (DWP, HMRC etc). More money does not increase productivity.

The whole system needs an overhaul including the introduction of a DC pension scheme only for new accrual.

That would put plenty of money in the pot for payrises.

However, I doubt that would be popular either.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *organ and rob zombieCouple
over a year ago

bradford

I saw something about this subject just yesterday, saying that they’ve accepted a 0% pay increase for the last 2-3 years, and they’re now expecting them to accept a 0% pay increase, work more weekends for less money than before (they used to get time and a half but that’s been cut down to time and a tenth)! So what they’re appealing against is ultimately a pay decrease in the midst of a cost of living crisis, so yes, I think they should strike every day until they get what they’ve been getting for the last few years!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not just drivers that are striking and not every employee is on a driver's wage.

Posties, Police, Fire, NHS, HMPPS and many more will follow soon because it's becoming impossible to live with a pay cut every year.

But we can't all get a payrise. Some business can't afford it, they are being squeezed as well.

I'd prefer an inflation reduced wage than no wage at all.

Businesses don't tend to have an endless supply of money. Neither do Governments (I know ours piss it up against the wall, as have many before on both sides).

My question back......is where does it end? We all get a payrise and then loads of people are made redundant?

In the last decade wages for the public sector have been reduced through things called new terms or in plain English shit pay and more hours.

Staff that were there before the changes are on old terms and will earn more but won't go for promotion because it's a pay cut.

It doesn't work that way. Elements of the Public Sector are bloated and frankly useless (DWP, HMRC etc). More money does not increase productivity.

The whole system needs an overhaul including the introduction of a DC pension scheme only for new accrual.

That would put plenty of money in the pot for payrises.

However, I doubt that would be popular either.

We'll have to agree to disagree and get back to Fabbing

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not just drivers that are striking and not every employee is on a driver's wage.

Posties, Police, Fire, NHS, HMPPS and many more will follow soon because it's becoming impossible to live with a pay cut every year.

But we can't all get a payrise. Some business can't afford it, they are being squeezed as well.

I'd prefer an inflation reduced wage than no wage at all.

Businesses don't tend to have an endless supply of money. Neither do Governments (I know ours piss it up against the wall, as have many before on both sides).

My question back......is where does it end? We all get a payrise and then loads of people are made redundant?

In the last decade wages for the public sector have been reduced through things called new terms or in plain English shit pay and more hours.

Staff that were there before the changes are on old terms and will earn more but won't go for promotion because it's a pay cut.

It doesn't work that way. Elements of the Public Sector are bloated and frankly useless (DWP, HMRC etc). More money does not increase productivity.

The whole system needs an overhaul including the introduction of a DC pension scheme only for new accrual.

That would put plenty of money in the pot for payrises.

However, I doubt that would be popular either.

We'll have to agree to disagree and get back to Fabbing

Indeed.....you looked incredible btw

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *irDomin8Man
over a year ago

Southend-On-Sea

"The fact we have working people trotting out Tory attack lines is very alarming. Without Unions you'd still be a pauper in a workhouse.

Every working right you have were won by unions and collective action.

If you're arguing against strikes you're arguing in favour of the rich exploiting you and your whole community ever more aggressively. "
very well said.. A lot of people think unions run straight to strikes, they do not, a strike is always the last resort, several attempts at negotiation have to fail to get there. Say you earn 100 a day strike 3 days lost pay. How long do you have to work to earn that back from ya payrise? The unions represent the workers and never want them to lose a day's pay. I know this to be true as I have been a branch chairman in a union. Support the rail workers because their pay rise will set the pace for private sector pay rises. It's this that panics the govt. More pay less dividends and again whilst it is true most dividends go to pensions a d savings investment, still a significant amount goes to supporters of a right wing party. Sorry to sound them and us. It's just that them turn us against us very successfully.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *rwhowhatwherewhyMan
over a year ago

Aylesbury

Yes, they should

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is a right, but one that is being sadly misused on this occasion.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"It is a right, but one that is being sadly misused on this occasion."

I don't think anyone who isn't in the union or working for the companies, or is in some other role that grants them an insiders insight is in a position to declaratively state it is being misused.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"It is a right, but one that is being sadly misused on this occasion."

Why is it being misused?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

Trade Unions and their Striking, aka the people that brought you

- Two-Day Weekends

- Eight Hour Working Days

- Maternity Leave

- Retirement Ages

- Occupational Health & Safety

- Workplace Pensions

- Paid Holidays

- Equality Laws

- The Right not to be Sacked because you got married, had a baby, or became ill.

- Pay increases

- The Minimum Wage

- Collective bargaining

And much much more

The Companies and the Tory government:

aka the people who want to take all that away.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the rights to strike is a differcult thing in this day and age when so many rely on services but yes i do agree with the rights to strike ...

however where i totally disagree is the unions stopping the railways from modernising ... our railways should be the best in the world its should be way more advace but the unions are stopping that ...the rest of the world move forwards whiles we wait ..thats not right

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

"If you really are 50 years old, you have lived through much higher inflation than this. "

if you really are 51 years old, you have lived through astronomically higher interest rates that made your hard earned saving offset the inflation.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

"the rights to strike is a differcult thing in this day and age when so many rely on services but yes i do agree with the rights to strike ...

lack of government investment and the victorian model which they impose on the industry are stopping the railways from modernising ... not the employees of privately owned companies.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"the rights to strike is a differcult thing in this day and age when so many rely on services but yes i do agree with the rights to strike ...

lack of government investment and the victorian model which they impose on the industry are stopping the railways from modernising ... not the employees of privately owned companies.

if they had any interest in a uk public transport network, then the government would invest tax payers money in it, instead of demanding that foreign states own our infrastructure and remove money from the economy overseas in the form of profit."
the rail union have always allowed "modernization " the change from steam to diesel and electric the change from mechanical to modern electrical signaling systems all have been introduced with the co operation of the unions yes they try to get the best for theyre members thats theyre job but one thing they will not ever compromise is saftey both of theyre members or the general public ie the paying passenger . railtrack plan to slash the cost of maintainance by half after already cutting this back to the bone and that is one of the main things that the RMT are fighting not compromising on maintainance and inspection of the track tunnels bridges and other infrastructure,but shapps and co arenet telling you this

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

I appreciate where they are coming from and I understand why they are doing it but…

* it’s not just their disagreement they are making it everyone’s disagreement

* it’s upsetting innocent peoples daily travel plans and over the kids summer hols

Where do they think the money for pay rises is going to come from

* what about all the other services that desperately need a pay rise? Nurses/emergency services? They don’t go on strike

I think it’s incredibly selfish to involve Joe public in their fight! There are other ways to achieve what they want

Bloody hell the rail service isn’t that great as it is!!Transpennine service is SHOCKING!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

"I appreciate where they are coming from and I understand why they are doing it but…

* it’s not just their disagreement they are making it everyone’s disagreement

It's not disagreement. I'm fully supportive of their right to withhold labour.

* it’s upsetting innocent peoples daily travel plans and over the kids summer hols

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

I would suggest most rational people would make alternative provisions and plans. It's not like this happens every day.

Where do they think the money for pay rises is going to come from

Their employers.

* what about all the other services that desperately need a pay rise? Nurses/emergency services? They don’t go on strike

Hopefully this will encourage them to stand up for themselves, because they absolutely have the right to strike as well, and most definitely should too due to their poor pay.

I think it’s incredibly selfish to involve Joe public in their fight! There are other ways to achieve what they want

I actually think it's incredibly selfish not to want others to strike if it inconveniences you. In fact, it's verging on the totalitarian, because denying someone a fundamental right because it inconveniences you is ultra-narcissistic control-freakery in the extreme.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Where do they think the money for pay rises is going to come from

Their employers."

Just to tack on here, the rail companies made over £500 million in profit last year, an inflation beating real world pay rise of about 15% for ALL members of the RMT union would cost them a tad more than half of that.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

"Where do they think the money for pay rises is going to come from

Their employers.

£1.6bn

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Annual-report-and-accounts-2021-Chief-financial-officers-review.pdf

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Where do they think the money for pay rises is going to come from

Their employers.

£1.6bn

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Annual-report-and-accounts-2021-Chief-financial-officers-review.pdf"

Well then they can afford even more of what the Strikers want then!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ovespudsMan
over a year ago

Swindon

" Calling people ignorant doesn’t achieve anything. Lots of people have tough work lives and make major sacrifices "

Ignorant - lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

It is apparent this person had no knowledge of what they were talking about therefore they're ignorant. Like it or not.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s not just about the pay though is it, it’s about terms and conditions, I think they are right to strike

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Yes, of course

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good should train drivers be able to strike? everyone.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately