FabSwingers.com forum: loyalties - israel or Palestinians

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back.

Definatly the palestians for me.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

Israel

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do we need to back a side ?

I am sure there are concessions to be made by both parties in this conflict.

Surely working with both could bring about a better long term solution than sabre rattling on the side of one or the other ?

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Do we need to back a side ?

I am sure there are concessions to be made by both parties in this conflict.

Surely working with both could bring about a better long term solution than sabre rattling on the side of one or the other ?

for sure pain on both sides

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Neither. They both need to grow up and start behaving like 21st century peoples and TALK.

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By *upitersmileCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas

"
Or Hannuka, more likely....

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Yes pain on both sides and I'm on the side of the terrified children of both nationalities. The political situation is complicated and difficult I doubt I'll ever understand completely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both as bad as each other for not wanting a peacefull solution

in my opinion, because this is essentially a religious war, it will never end; take Northern Ireland as an example

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas

pmsl@coffee morning - that made me chuckle - thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas

Maybe but them two sides dont celebrate Christmas,thing is tho they are brothers there really all Arab they should share the whole country and it would be be a wonderful place to visit. But I fear not in our life time.

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

I do think there are faults (an understatement) on both sides but... Israel is the problem in the middle east. The sooner the west (USA) tell the Israelis to wind their necks in the better. I cant think of bigger shit stirring oppressive warmongering country than Israel and that includes Iran.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Neither there both bloody idiots and need there heads banging together ffs let's face it nothing is ever going to change unless one of them wipes out the other or all the counties of the rest of the world step in take way all there toys and make them play nice!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I back the people on both sides who want to live in peace and accept mutual compromise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Both as bad as each other for not wanting a peacefull solution

in my opinion, because this is essentially a religious war, it will never end; take Northern Ireland as an example

N.ireland was never a religious war,it was territorial terrorism with religeon as the fall guy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Both as bad as each other for not wanting a peacefull solution

in my opinion, because this is essentially a religious war, it will never end; take Northern Ireland as an example

Let's face facts. Israel has the fire power to wipe Gaza off the map if it wanted to, but the Government know if that were to happen, it would be classed as religious genocide as opposed to an act of war.

It would also bring other nations into what at the moment is a localised conflict, albeit a well publicised one.

By showing both military and governmental restraint at the same time as appearing to make forward steps, they avoid that possibility.

The REAL problems don't exist in the general populace, they lie at the radical extremes of both parties and unfortunately those extremes are often religiously focussed.

That is where the difficulty lies in the peace process, because it is extremely difficult to either negotiate with or reach a compromise with a fanatic !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Neither. They both need to grow up and start behaving like 21st century peoples and TALK.

Spot on, if this gets worse the whole middle east could get sucked in , wars easy ......peace takes guts !

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By *utmegsMan
over a year ago

Closer than you think

"Neither. They both need to grow up and start behaving like 21st century peoples and TALK.

I doubt that will happen any time soon, when the Israeli deputy PM claims that the aim of the current military operation is to "send Gaza back to the middle ages".

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By *xodussxMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas

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By *aceytopWoman
over a year ago

from a town near you

"Both as bad as each other for not wanting a peacefull solution

in my opinion, because this is essentially a religious war, it will never end; take Northern Ireland as an example

It would also bring other nations into what at the moment is a localised conflict, albeit a well publicised one.

By showing both military and governmental restraint at the same time as appearing to make forward steps, they avoid that possibility.

The REAL problems don't exist in the general populace, they lie at the radical extremes of both parties and unfortunately those extremes are often religiously focussed.

That is where the difficulty lies in the peace process, because it is extremely difficult to either negotiate with or reach a compromise with a fanatic !"
what Bussy said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back.

Definatly the palestians for me."
Its a cluster fuck of 3,500 years in the making........both have legitimate claims to the land over which they are lobbing American and Soviet made weapons at each other! Could the answer lie in the last part of the last sentence I wonder?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

well one side says the other side shouldn't exist......

the other side doesn't recognise various un resolutions in the past and still continues to break those resolutions...

so its a score draw for me...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is going to sound a little trite, but there is a saying which (so I understand comes from Spiderman, of all places!) goes.... "With great power(s) comes great responsibility".

Of the two, Israel has by far and away the greater military power, thanks to our friends in our late colonies in the Americas.

During the near 40 years of the most recent troubles in Northern Ireland, the British also possessed far greater firepower than the IRA/Sinn Fein. Did we go about bombing Catholic areas of the Shankhill? Did we invade Catholic sympathising areas of Eire? Did we nuke Dublin? No. We could have, and not even blinked an eye. But we didn't.

We went through periods of extreme antagonism on both sides, but we kept as much of a lid on escalating an already bad situation as we could and, eventually, all parties got around the negotiating table and talked it out.

We (I hope) showed that we exercised great power with great responsibility (or as much as we could muster) - and this was at a time when much of the US population was behind the IRA, not the UK. In Israel, they have the USA as their greatest ally/supporter.

Yet, they feel it necessary to act no better than Hammas and chuck missiles at each other seemingly without regard for the long term consequences.

Maybe our dear Mr Blair can pass on some of his 'experience' with the Good Friday Agreement and show them how to get to that point as a matter of urgency..... maybe that is too much to ask....

In the meantime, innocent people continue to pay for the slanging match with their lives.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Israel.

If Palestine gave up their weapons there would be no more war. If Israel gave up their weapons there would be no more Israel.

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By *xodussxMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"Israel.

If Palestine gave up their weapons there would be no more war. If Israel gave up their weapons there would be no more Israel."
If Israel give back the lands there will be more Palestine weapons...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Palestine.

Anyone else noticed that the Israeli's bomb a pro-peace Palestinian leader and kick off another round of this shit every four years? Just in time for their elections too.

Always seemed a bit fishy to me, like they are trying to perpetuate things.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The taking of sides is one of the problems with this war. I have met and spoken to people on both sides of the divide and find it impossible to take a side.

The whole world is getting smaller and we have to find ways of living together on this ball of water, earth and gas in peace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There have been massacres on both sides but Israel historically has been the biggest aggressor with Zionist forces committing multiple massacres just after the second world war in an effort to secure more Palestinian territory.

The US role in this conflict shouldn't be under estimated. Currently the States donates around 8M dollars a day to Israel.

Thanks heavens the ground war looks to have been put on hold while they try to broker a peace deal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both sides.... With a prayer that somehow they can find peace, to protect the innocent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back.

Definatly the palestians for me."

I back a two state solution with an independant Jerusalem (the Vatican is now it's own state). Extremists and fundamentalists will often dictate proceedings during the heat of conflict but once the masses have had enough and are brave enough to sign upto a compromised solution the extremists become quickly margionalised.

Look at Northern Ireland, no one saw peace coming, but when it did the masses got behind it's momentum and the rest is history. The real real IRA (or whatever they call themselves) are still about, but margionalised.

Less backing or taking sides and more demanding restraint and compromise from both sides is what I'd like to see from the international community. The current situation is very disappointing but I remain optimistic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think that eventually enough people will realise that there is no God and it has all been for nothing?

There isn't a big difference between kneeling down and bending over.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back.

Definatly the palestians for me.

To be fair, both sides in NI still have massive weapons caches buried. The feuds are still there, but buried. Hopefully with enough time, the irrational hatreds will not be passed down the generations.

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

Sorry to make light of it but... it would be a good outcome if they both stopped shelling each other and targeted Bliar!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force? "

Personally I was being sarcastic about 'Mr' Blair....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Palestine all the way. The Zionists must be destroyed. The sooner the USA is forced to stop paying or their outpost in Asia the quicker that will happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Neither.

Both sides know that the war is futile.

No good will come of it, nobody will be the victor, no outside countries should support or back them as it will only esculate into something bigger and drag everyone into the vortex of massacre and mayhem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force.

The French Resistance has been romanticised in the decades since WW2 and it's effect in France against German occupying forces was minimal. They were more effective in helping down Allied flyers escape to Spain and/or repatriated to the UK."
I am afraid you are wrong. The resistance carried a number of heroic and strategic operations just before the normandy landings. On the liberation of France Ike commented that without the french resistance in Northern France the landings could have been disasterous. Additionally I would not use the "minimal effect" line with the relatives of over 100,000 French (Belgium and Dutch) frredom fighters who gave their lives. You have been watching too many episodes of Allo Allo!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force. "

So the period from 6th June 44 to 8th May 45 had nothing to do with it...??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the truth be known, it is we British who bought instability to the area with the British Mandate for Palestine. IT was Britain that advocated the creation of a nation state for Jews carved out of Palestinian territory (which in itself was carved out of Jewish territory in antiquity).

The Jewish League (a Zionist force of volunteers) assisted the British in conquering Palestine in 1917. Britain ruled much of the Middle East after the Ottoman Empire was defeated in WW1 (of which T.E. Lawrence was a major player - Lawrence of Arabia no less!) and we either ruled it directly (Palestine/Israel, Transjordan or via a ruling dynasty such as the Hashemites.

We have been meddling in the Middle East since the Crusades and we haven't stopped meddling in it since then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force.

I am afraid you are wrong. The resistance carried a number of heroic and strategic operations just before the normandy landings. On the liberation of France Ike commented that without the french resistance in Northern France the landings could have been disasterous. Additionally I would not use the "minimal effect" line with the relatives of over 100,000 French (Belgium and Dutch) frredom fighters who gave their lives. You have been watching too many episodes of Allo Allo!"

That is absolute bollocks. As WW2 drew to a clsoe there was a rush of French people claiming to have been part of the resistance, yet the Resistance was not an organised body of freedom fighters right across France, they were scattered pockets of resistance who fought locally when they could, and linked up across Northern France if the Germans turned their backs or nodded off for a second. The Vichy Govt ruled France from the south and collaborators were hounded and shamed, and, in some instances, executed after liberation. It was this fear of collaboration that gave rise to the romanticised version of the French Resistance and it helped the Allies to rebuild Europe with such stories of heroism and nationalism. It certainly helped American interests in France to purport a fantasy of the truth that allowed French people to reclaim their lost dignity and recover a sense of national pride.

..and I have only watched a handful of episodes of 'Allo 'Allo - it's just not my kind of humour tbh.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/11/12 13:33:11]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Palastineans..... although they are no angels!! How would you feel if someone moved into your back garden because they had been promised it 2000 years ago? And of course the Americans don't help supporting the Israels which is presumably tied in with politics and the Jewish vote. Long story short it's a complete mess which like everyone is saying will go on and on and leave a lot of people dead.

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By *ctavius StuntMan
over a year ago

london

this situation isnt complicated, its made complicated because people have an interest in prolonging it.

Its no more complicated than 2 five yr old boys having a play ground dispute.

Ms he hit me first ! Says israel the playground bully in defense at having murdered Palestines brothers and sisters in disproportionate revenge.

And so it goes on.

I wonder what part the usa played in mubaraks departure, probably i suspect the same part they had in ghadaffis exit. VIVA PALESTINE

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

I wonder how the Palestinian supporters would feel if a close neighbour of our country would start randomly firing rockets into our towns and cities?

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By *utmegsMan
over a year ago

Closer than you think

"I wonder how the Palestinian supporters would feel if a close neighbour of our country would start randomly firing rockets into our towns and cities?"

Probably fairly pissed off, but I would expect we would receive some serious international sh*t if our proportionate response was 100 air raids a day designed to wipe out any semblance of civil or political control.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force.

..and I have only watched a handful of episodes of 'Allo 'Allo - it's just not my kind of humour tbh."
You are wrong my friend. 100,000 resistance members were either killed or executed by the nazi. The youngest known person to be executed was 12. Your generalisation is bollocks the resistance forces in all the occupied countries did not win the battle for freedom the helped and lots of brave men, women and children were murdered in the pursuit of their freedom; the numbers matter not the fact that they took up arms against what can only described as evil makes them heros. Your banal arguement is not worthy of a response but your dismissive words are insulting to the memories of a lot of brave people.

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By * 4 fun bCouple
over a year ago

b,ham

all arabs?????????????/israel are jews,,most moved there fom other countries ,will never live in peace with arabs ,saying that it,s they who at fault ,after all they stole the land off palestine

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By *atinaBabeCouple
over a year ago

casa caliente

uzzys for me always they are right to fire the fucking terrorists (sorry for the death of civilians in both sides) we should to the same in this country no mercy for terrorists love ya israel xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Neither side as I am neither but how anyone could possibly contemplate taking the side of a group of murdering scum who target families and children is nothing sort of sick to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this situation isnt complicated, its made complicated because people have an interest in prolonging it.

Its no more complicated than 2 five yr old boys having a play ground dispute.

Ms he hit me first ! Says israel the playground bully in defense at having murdered Palestines brothers and sisters in disproportionate revenge.

And so it goes on.

I wonder what part the usa played in mubaraks departure, probably i suspect the same part they had in ghadaffis exit. VIVA PALESTINE

"
If only it were so simple. The Palastinians see the Israelis as Zionists and recationary and one might say an occupying force. Until 1947 Israel did not exist; the zionist movement created Israel from what was Palastine. Hence the problem of today. The Western world has hung the Palastinians out to dry as have most Arab countries. When a population is disenfranschised and has no say they become desparate and in this case start firing rockets at Tel Aviv because they say Israel is not allowing them the right to free passage and the right to self determination.

If it was as simple as two naughty boys having a ruck then we could get their parents in and tell them to sort it!

This is a 3,500 year old deep wound that regularly gets infected and causes pain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

never be peace in the region.

as soon as they sort this one out they will be at it again in a few months.

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

I will pick Isreal as they have bigger guns and like to kill MOAR!

The Palestinians have missile launchers made of elastic bands, that shit is going to get annihilated yo!

Is their a prize if you win?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OUCH DODGY SUBJECT TO PUT UP IN FORUM BUT HOW CAN ANYONE BACK THE ZIONIST AGENDAY THAT IS ISRAEL.....THE COUNTRY WAS MANUFACTURED BY THE ZIONISTS FOR THE

Historically, a Zionist was any person who fought for the establishment of a Jewish nation in Zion. This was finally fulfilled over the course of many bloody months from 1947 to 1949, as various nations fought over the partitioning of Jerusalem and the surrounding region. The nation of Israel has held a tenuous foothold ever since, and it remains the political and spiritual homeland of all Jewish people all over the world. Since its establishment, the mission of Zionists has been to defend and strengthen Israel, and to oppose challenges to its sovereignty; in short, Zionism is Zionist nationalism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

PEOPLE ARE JUST SPOON FED WHAT THEY HEAR SEE AND READ IN THE PAPERS WHICH ALL OF COURSE POINT TO ISRAEL BEING IN THE RIGHT ALL TGHE TIME

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this situation isnt complicated, its made complicated because people have an interest in prolonging it.

Its no more complicated than 2 five yr old boys having a play ground dispute.

Ms he hit me first ! Says israel the playground bully in defense at having murdered Palestines brothers and sisters in disproportionate revenge.

And so it goes on.

I wonder what part the usa played in mubaraks departure, probably i suspect the same part they had in ghadaffis exit. VIVA PALESTINE

If only it were so simple. The Palastinians see the Israelis as Zionists and recationary and one might say an occupying force. Until 1947 Israel did not exist; the zionist movement created Israel from what was Palastine. Hence the problem of today. The Western world has hung the Palastinians out to dry as have most Arab countries. When a population is disenfranschised and has no say they become desparate and in this case start firing rockets at Tel Aviv because they say Israel is not allowing them the right to free passage and the right to self determination.

If it was as simple as two naughty boys having a ruck then we could get their parents in and tell them to sort it!

This is a 3,500 year old deep wound that regularly gets infected and causes pain."

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley

This is an age old religious struggle of intolerance, international meddling to get us to a point where noone wins, innocent people die.

For too long, so called superpowers with their own vested interests have dictated ( and that's not too strong a word ) their own global policies by perpetuating a struggle, without a vision of the future, for peace. The Israelis will never be accepted by it's neighbours, because in their eyes, they have stolen Arab land. This gives a whole other dynamic to it. The Jews at the end of WW2, who were largely homeless as a consequence of the acts of brutality of the Nazi regime had no homeland and infact were not welcome back by their former homelands. Where to site these. Another lack of foresight by the allies, who were complicit in the ejection of the palestinians.

It is an excuse that has been trotted out many, anti zionist nations ( Iran, Syria, Egypt ( who have been the most notable supporters of the Israeli state recently ) ) and I suspect will never go away, Islam vs Judaism. Lets not forget the Arab Israeli war, with Egypt allowing troops on it's own soil to attack Israel.

Unless....and will it ever happen, the Israelis recognise that the palestinians have a right to a homeland and make concessions in land and the Palestinians (Hammas ) recognise the state of Israel, this conflict will always flare up. It is time that tne UN got involved and there was an agreed division of land and recognition of both sides of their respective existence. Will the Palestinians not covet the industry and wealth of Israel? Will the Israelis not be suspicious of terror attacks? This will run and run, sadly with innocent lives being lost. Noone is right, everyone loses. What a sad world we live in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Neither. They both need to grow up and start behaving like 21st century peoples and TALK.

eASY TO SAY WHEN WE IN THE WEST LIVE IN OUT LITTLE CARDBOARD BOXES WITH OUR CURTAINS CLOSED ONLY BOTHERING TO GET INVOLVED ONCE IT STARTS TO AFFECT OUR YEARLY HOLIDAYS OUR CARS OR OUR CONSUMER GOODS.....THEY HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR YEARS AND THE CREATION OF ISRAEL BY US IN THE WEST HAS ONLY PROVKED ISRAEL IN TO THINKING IT HA S GOT THE BACKING OF ALL US SPOON FED MUPPETS IN THE WEST ..... JUST SAYING LOL

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force.

..and I have only watched a handful of episodes of 'Allo 'Allo - it's just not my kind of humour tbh.

You are wrong my friend. 100,000 resistance members were either killed or executed by the nazi. The youngest known person to be executed was 12. Your generalisation is bollocks the resistance forces in all the occupied countries did not win the battle for freedom the helped and lots of brave men, women and children were murdered in the pursuit of their freedom; the numbers matter not the fact that they took up arms against what can only described as evil makes them heros. Your banal arguement is not worthy of a response but your dismissive words are insulting to the memories of a lot of brave people."

You've bought into the hype surrounding the French resistance during WW2.

Quote from MacroHistory.com:

In France, toward the end of the war, the resistance movement assassinated Germans, collaborators and others they deemed unworthy of living, such as black marketers. According to rough estimates, the French Resistance killed 2500 people between the autumn of 1943 and June 6, 1945. [note]

With the defeat of Germany looming, more people identified with the resistance -- which had been limited to a few brave activists. The German commander in Paris, von Choltitz, was trying to work out an orderly withdrawal and he met with a leader of the resistance, Alexandre Parodi, who told him that he had no control over the movement. "The resistance," said Parodi, "is spontaneous."

The leader of the Free French, Charles de Gaulle, struggled to keep his resistance movement disciplined, and when the war ended he was quick in his disapproval of random killings. De Gaulle wished to hold to the rule of law, while some outside of his organization found opportunity in the atmosphere of victory over the Germans and fascists to assassinate personal enemies.

In France, women accused of having associated with German soldiers had their heads shaved. Some of them had swastikas painted on their foreheads. Some were stripped naked and then paraded through the streets. In Denmark and Norway similar retributions against women occurred, with men able to mask their jealousy with patriotism and moral righteousness. In Denmark, several hundred young women were jailed whose only crime was consorting with young German soldiers.

About collaboration the French author Jean Paul Sartre wrote that the whole country had both resisted and collaborated. Everything we did, he said, was equivocal. A subtle poison, he added, corrupted even our best actions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

DO YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS OF ISRAEL? ALSO A LABOUR FRIENDS OF ISRAEL?.......ASK YOUR SELFS WHY

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"DO YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS OF ISRAEL? ALSO A LABOUR FRIENDS OF ISRAEL?.......ASK YOUR SELFS WHY

Can we not ask you instead ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"DO YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS OF ISRAEL? ALSO A LABOUR FRIENDS OF ISRAEL?.......ASK YOUR SELFS WHY

It's a wild guess but could it be that it's because there are Jewish supporters of both parties?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"DO YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS OF ISRAEL? ALSO A LABOUR FRIENDS OF ISRAEL?.......ASK YOUR SELFS WHY

*scratches head and wonders if I have slipped into a parallel universe of rhetorical questions*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"DO YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS OF ISRAEL? ALSO A LABOUR FRIENDS OF ISRAEL?.......ASK YOUR SELFS WHY

*scratches head and wonders if I have slipped into a parallel universe of rhetorical questions*"

LOL

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Anyway it's not Palestinians Vs. Israel....it's Hamas Vs. Israel

Or seen another way it's Iran backing Hamas to keep up the conflict with Israel....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyway it's not Palestinians Vs. Israel....it's Hamas Vs. Israel

Or seen another way it's Iran backing Hamas to keep up the conflict with Israel...."

And the U.S. backing Israel with a _iew to using it as a staging area for an invasion of the Middle East - if it ever needs to.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The alternative would be to abandon Israel to be over run by the likes of Hamas....nd then who is next on their agenda?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyway it's not Palestinians Vs. Israel....it's Hamas Vs. Israel

Or seen another way it's Iran backing Hamas to keep up the conflict with Israel....

And the U.S. backing Israel with a _iew to using it as a staging area for an invasion of the Middle East - if it ever needs to."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force.

..and I have only watched a handful of episodes of 'Allo 'Allo - it's just not my kind of humour tbh.

You've bought into the hype surrounding the French resistance during WW2.

Quote from MacroHistory.com:

The resistance claim that 100,000 people were shot during Nazi occupation is merely down to the fact that to die as a Frenchman/woman at the hands of the Nazis made that person a Resistance fighter by default. What is less publicised is that many of those 100,000 (sic) people murdered by the Nazis were shot in reprisals for resistance killings of German soldiers."
The Nazi were good at one thing.......keeping records. In the occupation of France, Denamrk, Belgium and The Netherlands over 100,000 people were shot for "terrorist" activities. The Nazi recorded each one of them. In one of the war cemetries just outside Paris there is a commeration of those who gave their lives in the pursuit of freedom. I repaeat the numbers are irrelvant and their rag tag attempts were proably mis directed but if that is romantic fiction then I must read some really wacky books!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...if that is romantic fiction then I must read some really wacky books!"

I didn't say it was fiction, I said it had been romanticised. The Resistance was real in so much as it existed, but in nowhere near the numbers that have been laid claim to.

For most of the occupation, the Nazis were that effective at control that different resistance cells were continually being infiltrated and/or exposed that they rarely hung on to the same leadership to establish reliable communications.

It was only when defeat of Germany by the Allies was inevitable that open resistance began to gather momentum right across Europe, and in some instances collaborators quickly switched alliegance as they knew what would most likely happen to them once the war was over, as proven by the execution of thousands of collaborators in France alone.

The one area in which the resistance proved invaluable was in assisting downed Allied airmen to escape France through Spain. An estimated 30,000 Allied aircrew shot down over Europe made it out this way.

I'm not fictionalising anything, but let's get historic facts straight if we're going to have a debate about it.

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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago

near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack!

Not reading the whole thread which I possibly should do!

As I see it both are as bad as the other. I see the Palestinians like the naughty child who needs a hiding to keep in check and the Isreali`s as the child who hides behind Mother America`s skirt and lashes out while Mother protects them. If Isreal didn`t have the US protection they currently enjoy I don`t think they would be so eager to use their bombs!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The alternative would be to abandon Israel to be over run by the likes of Hamas....nd then who is next on their agenda?"

I'm in agreement with you Jane, the West needs Israel to exist. The Middle East frightens the living daylights out of me as these countries are populated by people who think going to war is a natural progression of an argument, and they're not far from developing nukes themselves no matter how much the UN/NATO tries to prevent it.

A Nuke in the hands of a Jihadist, that's fucking scary!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The alternative would be to abandon Israel to be over run by the likes of Hamas....nd then who is next on their agenda?

A Nuke in the hands of a Jihadist, that's fucking scary!

only the zionists need israel to exist....as the world is run by zionists....its not the west that needs it ...if people believe that then i thiink they should do some more research...as i have been doing this subject for years now x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...if that is romantic fiction then I must read some really wacky books!

I didn't say it was fiction, I said it had been romanticised. The Resistance was real in so much as it existed, but in nowhere near the numbers that have been laid claim to.

I'm not fictionalising anything, but let's get historic facts straight if we're going to have a debate about it."
My facts are correct.

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley

The thread of loyalty to which side doesn't come into this. History teaches us many lessons, and it the world has evolved as a consequesnce of migration, conflict, inspiration, determination, ethnicity and religion. I read once that there has only been 4 years in recorded history where there hasn't been a war somewhere. This is the nature of man. Religion becomes a very easy label for disagreements.

I once sent the Jehovas witnesses packing one evening when asked if we chould all become one religion on the doorstep. To which I replied: " good plan, then there would be no arguements, so lets all go with the majority, so all become Catholic or Muslim, whomever has the largest following".....jaw drop and.....i'll be back was the response..

I thank my lucky stars that I am in an age where I and my children need never be coerced or forced into conflict, to have to kill another human being sanctioned by the state.

That is not the case in Palestine/ Israel/Afghanistan/ Burma. It's not about sides, it's about man's inhumanity to man.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The alternative would be to abandon Israel to be over run by the likes of Hamas....nd then who is next on their agenda?

A Nuke in the hands of a Jihadist, that's fucking scary!

No, it's not just Zionists who need Israel to exist or benefit from it. The USA does too. What a wonderful little sales ploy for arms to have them right in the middle of all those Arab countries - 'Hey Mr Israel, you've got that nasty Egypt next door who wants to see the end of you - you better buy our F-16's to protect yourself!'

'Hey Mr Egypt, Israels buyin our F-16's - you better buy some so they don't get the upper hand on you!'

"Hey Mr Israel AND Mr Egypt - them pesky Ruskies have sold some of their MiG's to Mr Syria - you better have more of our F-16's...."

and so it goes on...... Bloody good job Hammas hasn't got it's hands on an F-16 yet......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...if that is romantic fiction then I must read some really wacky books!

I didn't say it was fiction, I said it had been romanticised. The Resistance was real in so much as it existed, but in nowhere near the numbers that have been laid claim to.

I'm not fictionalising anything, but let's get historic facts straight if we're going to have a debate about it.My facts are correct."
The surrender of France in June 1940, was a major blow to many French people in terms of their pride. Many believed that the government had let the people down. The creation of a Nazi-approved Vichy government, primarily in the centreand south of the country, was, in the minds of many, further proof that politicians had let down France. The resistance movement developed to provide the Allies with intelligence, attack the Germans when possible and to assist the escape of Allied airmen.

In the immediate aftermath of the June 1940 surrender, France went into a period of shock. The public had been assured that the French army, along with the Maginot Line, was more than strong enough to resist a German attack. The speed and severity of Blitzkrieg had shocked the French people. The non-occupied region of France, known as Vichy France, was set up by the Germans and governed by Marshall Pétain. His reputation was still high and in the early days of Vichy, his leadership gave it some stability and kudos. Also in the days after the British attack on Mers el Kébir, there was a degree of anti-British sentiment in France. Therefore, there was no immediate drive to create a resistance movement en masse in central and southern France.

On June 18th, 1940,Charles de Gaulle addressed the people of France from London. He called on the French people to continue the fight against the Germans. This message hit hard in occupied France but initially it was less well received in Vichy France. Regardless of what many thought of the Vichy government, the area they controlled was run by French people. However, when the Vichy government began to openly collaborate with the Germans, attitudes hardened.

The French Resistance movement is an umbrella term which covered numerous anti-German resistance movements that were based within France. There were resistance movements that took direct orders from the Special Operations Executive, there was the communist resistance, groups loyal to de Gaulle, regional resistance movements that wanted independence etc. In the north, the target was simply the Germans while in the south, the Vichy government was a target as well as the Germans. The first resistance movements were in the north, such as the OCM (Organisation Civile et Militaire) and by the end of 1940, six underground newspapers were being regularly printed in the north. In May 1941, the first SOE agent was dropped into northern France to assist the work of the resistance.

Because of the peculiar political complexities of France, the resistance movement got off to a difficult start. However, by June 1941, the resistance movement had become more organised and its work against the Germans increased accordingly. Two dates are important in explaining the work of the resistance movement in France.

On June 22nd 1941, all the communist groups within France joined forces to create one group. This simple act greatly increased its potency. On November 11th 1942, German forces occupied the whole of France. This meant that the whole country was occupied and the attitude of the north quickly transferred itself to the south.

The German attack on Russia - Operation Barbarossa - led to many French communists joining the resistance movement. Politics took a back step and the French communists gained a reputation for being aggressive and successful resistance fighters. Many French people joined as the support for Vichy quickly waned. Many in the south were angered by the compulsory labour service that had been brought in. But the treatment of the Jews was a major cause of resentment towards the Vichy government and many joined the resistance as a means of fighting against a policy that the vast majority found abhorrent.

The relationship between Britain and the French Resistance movement was vital. Britain, via the SOE, supplied the French with equipment and trained agents. The French Resistance, in turn, supplied vital intelligence reports. As an example, the British attack on the radio base at Bruneval in 1942 could have been a lot more costly in terms of lives lost, if the British had not received intelligence reports from the resistance with regards to the building of new blockhouses there. With such information, the British paratrooperscould plan accordingly.

Though the British government and de Gaulle could have a difficult relationship at times, in October 1941, both reached a compromise with regards to resistance operations in France. de Gaulle set up a Central Intelligence and Operations Agency with the support of the British. This acted independently but planning was carried out in co-operation with the SOE which supplied equipment. Agents sent into France started a general re-grouping of all resistance movements and a Conseil National de la Résistance movement was established which was subordinated to de Gaulle. By the end of 1942, de Gaulle became head of the Comité Français de Libération Nationale which headed all resistance movements in France. As a result of this greater organisational security, the resistance became more effective in 1943. Attacks on the French rail system increased greatly. Between January and June 1943, there were 130 acts of sabotage against rail lines each month. By September 1943, this had increased to 530. The disruption to the Germans ability to move equipment was massive.

By 1944, it is estimated that there were 100,000 members of the various resistance movements that existed in France. Just one year earlier, there were just 40,000 members.. By the spring of 1944, there were 60 intelligence cells whose task was solely to collect intelligence as opposed to carrying out acts of sabotage. In the build up to D-Day, the intelligence they gathered was vital. In May 1944 alone, they sent 3,000 written reports to the Allies and 700 wireless reports. Between April and May, the resistance destroyed 1,800 railway engines. When this figure is added to the 2,400 destroyed by Allied bombers, it is easy to understand why the Germans had such difficulty transporting equipment across France.

Post-war analysis of the success of the resistance shows that the 150 most successful acts of sabotage against factories in France between 1943 and 1944, used just 3,000 lbs of explosives - the equivalent of the bomb load of one single Mosquito plane. The use of the British SOE to train French resistance fighters proved pivotal in keeping supply lines open to advancing allied troops. Around 45,000 French men, women and children were executed by the occupational forces most for acts of terrorism as defined by the Vichy government.

More Romantic Bollocks?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would not support anyone that straps bombs to little children and sends them across the border...find me a more evil act than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would not support anyone that straps bombs to little children and sends them across the border...find me a more evil act than that."
I have not seen a report of that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The alternative would be to abandon Israel to be over run by the likes of Hamas....nd then who is next on their agenda?

A Nuke in the hands of a Jihadist, that's fucking scary!

"
Pakistan has a nuclear weapon and their goverment is populated with fundementalists?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"only the zionists need israel to exist....as the world is run by zionists....its not the west that needs it ...if people believe that then i thiink they should do some more research...as i have been doing this subject for years now x"

Are you under the impression that you are the only person on this site who has studied?, you have your _iews after being in receipt of your studies....and others have their _iews, please don't try to make it sound like others have no knowledge of the matter just because they haven't come to the same conclusion as yourself.

People have their own opinions, you should learn to respect that fact.

That's all debate is....individual opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Next you'll be telling me that 12 families run the world and that they don't answer to anyone other than themselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pakistan has a nuclear weapon and their goverment is populated with fundementalists?"

And the more extreme of them wouldn't hesitate to use it if they could get their mitts on The Button.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both sides need a good slap . Hate to hear of injured and dead children. What have they ever done ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...More Romantic Bollocks?"

You have quoted times, dates and places, and another writer's interpretation of them. That's not a problem in itself, but other writers have seen a different resistance movement in France between 1940-45, and that is there interpretation of what they saw.

History is written by the victors don't forget, and it is not inconcievable that governments tell lies from time to time.

Among those who stood trial for collaboration, and received the sentence of death, was the eighty-nine year old World War I hero, General Pétain, who had been the chief of state of the Vichy regime. An opinion poll indicated that only three percent favored death for Pétain, and his sentence was reduced to life in prison. The active leader of the Vichy regime, the prime minister, Pierre Laval was not so lucky however. Laval had not been a Nazi sympathizer and he had bargained as hard as he could with the Germans for the sake of France. He defended himself in court with such skill that the court cut his trial short. The court sentenced him to death. According to a poll, sixty-six percent approved of the sentence, and the sentence stuck. "I die," he said, "for having loved my country too much." He was shot on October 15, 1945.

History - that is history written by shameful Frenchmen - want to forget men like Laval though.

No, it is safe to say that while maybe 100,000 people (of a population of millions) do not a Resistance movement make, and whilst credible intel was gathered by the few french people on the ground prepared to risk their necks for France, the majority of French people kept their heads well below the parapet, or even betrayed Allied personnel in return for an easy life under a Nazi-occupied France.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

back to topic....

two state solution.... back to pre 67' borders...

just like the un resolution....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas

We had woman in charge she fucked us over more than all the useless male politicians

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...More Romantic Bollocks?

History is written by the victors don't forget, and it is not inconcievable that governments tell lies from time to time.

History - that is history written by shameful Frenchmen - want to forget men like Laval though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Get a grip

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have a grip!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

A little local difficulty has a habit of not staying little or local for long.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dunno i reckon leave them too it...... Im off for a shag with my half naked woman

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By *exywheelsCouple
over a year ago

inverness

ISRAEL always

a bit of modern history

In 1948 the UN divided the lands in to 2 states 1 Jewish and 1 arab with jeruselam under UN control. The Jewish leaders acepted this. The arab nations refused to accecpt it and told the arab pepoles living their to leave temporaly so that their armys would have a clear field of fire while they drove the jews out. On the day that Israel declared independance the massed armys of the arab nations attacked included were egypt,jordan,syria,iraq,saudi arabia.

they were then soundly defeted by the much smaler and porly armed Isralies.

Of what were the Arab lands The west bank was taken by Jordan and the gaza strip by egypt.

Of the so called refuges, Israels possition is that they left of their own accored and it is up to the nations that told them to leave to deal with them. (their were a few ocassions were rouge isralies did drive out arabs and the Israeli goverment has said that they and their decendants may return, but the arab leaders will not allow them.) Thoese arabs who did stay have full rights in israel, their are arabs in the knesset (the israeli parlament) Israel is the only established democracy in the region. How long the arab spring will last and result in strong democracys and not extrimesit islamic nations remanes to be seen.

When Hammas stops comiting WAR CRIMES and accepts israel as a partner and not calling for the jews to be driven into the sea, then peace may have a chance. and israel does need to stop building in the west bank.

To delibertly target civilians is a war crime. The rockets that Hammas fires at Israel are targeted at civilians. 120 were fired at Israel in the week before Israel took out a terorisit.

As for those who blame the USA for suplying the arms to israel until the suez war Fance was the largest supplier of arms to israel followed by the UK. After that betrael israel changed suppliers to the USA and buys them and then improves them and sells has on several times sold them back i.e. phantom 2000, and one of the f16 models.

The USA is also the bigeset donor to egypt

(Sory for the poor spelling had a few drams)

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley

Best suggestion so far! Make love, not war. Enjoy, was just thinking the same!

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley

"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it. "

One word "oil"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Palestine - they have lost enough already.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it.

One word "oil"

If it were all about oil the US would be sucking the Arab boabie. They (US) seem more inclined to support Israel. Maybe there's just more Jewish votes than Arab votes in the USA.

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley

"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it.

One word "oil"

If it were all about oil the US would be sucking the Arab boabie. They (US) seem more inclined to support Israel. Maybe there's just more Jewish votes than Arab votes in the USA."

You find the yanks do both in rest of middle east, no oil in Palestine so they are not concerned more ashamed of what they let happen in Europe in second world war.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry but you're talking out you're arse no offence I think you need to do some more research on the issue the Jews bought a fraction of the land and the un decided to give them more then half the country.it's a disgrace people can stick up for Israel they are the aggressors I have nothing against Jews its Zionism that's the problem and there's a good documentary on YouTube called the history of Zionism (I think that's what it's called)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it.

One word "oil"

If it were all about oil the US would be sucking the Arab boabie. They (US) seem more inclined to support Israel. Maybe there's just more Jewish votes than Arab votes in the USA."

hehehehehe ... all those Jews who think America is their bestest buddy will get a rude wake up call when Middle Eastern oil is threatened to the extent that America parks a couple of aircraft carriers off the coast of Tel Aviv along with another 30 support ships. Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria? None of them will stop the U.S. if it decides to take control of 1/4 of the world's oil supplies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/11/12 22:14:07]

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By *U1966Man
over a year ago

Devon

Israel the way this country should be run if hamas stop firing missiles it will stop but Iran is controlling them as usual

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it.

One word "oil"

If it were all about oil the US would be sucking the Arab boabie. They (US) seem more inclined to support Israel. Maybe there's just more Jewish votes than Arab votes in the USA.

why did hitler have a beef with the jews??????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i admire iran and its president for not beeing bullied by us and the usa .,,,, his attitude is bring it on.... dont threaten me...that would be a big mistake just check him out on utube he is a right guy

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By *U1966Man
over a year ago

Devon

Iranian president is much like Hitler abuses his long suffering countrymen while distracting them and others with rants and speeches

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"i admire iran and its president for not beeing bullied by us and the usa .,,,, his attitude is bring it on.... dont threaten me...that would be a big mistake just check him out on utube he is a right guy "

Why am I not surprised that you admire Iran and their President?

They openly call for the total destruction of Israel and it's people, like Hamas they publically deny the holocaust ever took place, they publically call for the overthrow of the Saudi Royal family, they publically call for the permanent closure of the Suez Canal.....

But you admire them.....and their 'Right Guy'

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

How can you possibly back one or the other side in this conflict is beyond me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it.

One word "oil"

If it were all about oil the US would be sucking the Arab boabie. They (US) seem more inclined to support Israel. Maybe there's just more Jewish votes than Arab votes in the USA.

why did hitler have a beef with the jews??????"

Hitler needed a fall guy to unite the German people to a common cause. He blamed European Jews for causing WW1 for financial reasons. After WW1 came the Great Depression of 1929 and Hitler saw that Jewish businessmen were largely unaffected by it (as they'd held their wealth in gold). He surmised that Jews were the orchestrators of the Depression.

Kristallnacht (or Night of the Broken Glass) was a series of coordinated attacks against Jews throughout Nazi Germany and parts of Austria on 9–10 November 1938, carried out by SA paramilitary and civilians. German authorities looked on without intervening. The attacks left the streets covered with broken glass from the windows of Jewish-owned stores, buildings, and synagogues.

At least 91 Jews were killed in the attacks, and a further 30,000 arrested and incarcerated in concentration camps. Jewish homes, hospitals, and schools were ransacked, as the attackers demolished buildings with sledgehammers. Over 1,000 synagogues were burned (95 in Vienna alone), and over 7,000 Jewish businesses destroyed or damaged.

In 1942 the Final Solution to the Jewish Question was devised by Heinrich Himmler and 6 million Jews were rounded up and exterminated. (incidentally, the term 'Jewish Question' was first used in Great Britain in 1750)

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By *rannyAnnaTV/TS
over a year ago

Driffield

"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas

I can tell you exactly when the current trouble will be over by..

22 January 2013

That's the date of the Israeli elections, once Netenyahu is re-elected he won't need his Palestinian-killing sideshow to boost him in the polls and can call a cease fire.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Neither...if it wasn't for religion. They wouldn't be fighting over the land.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas

I can tell you exactly when the current trouble will be over by..

22 January 2013

That's the date of the Israeli elections, once Netenyahu is re-elected he won't need his Palestinian-killing sideshow to boost him in the polls and can call a cease fire. "

So are Hamas in on this plan for Jan 22nd?.....someone had better remind them to stop launching missiles into Israelon the 21st Jan. then....or your theory won't be worth a feck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It seems that after hundreds of missiles have been fired and 160 people have died that it's a jolly good idea to call a ceasefire.

Why couldn't they have thought of that before the first one was fired. Fucking wankers. The Middle East really boils my piss as it seems to be populated by people with half a brain cell between them and they even fight over who's going to be using it.

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By *uncpl2015Couple
over a year ago

Bridgend Area

As the world is to end on 21st Dec 2012 then this is probably the catalyst that sparks the chain reaction that steers the human race to it's own demise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As the world is to end on 21st Dec 2012 then this is probably the catalyst that sparks the chain reaction that steers the human race to it's own demise."

Well hi there cheerful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As the world is to end on 21st Dec 2012 then this is probably the catalyst that sparks the chain reaction that steers the human race to it's own demise.

Well hi there cheerful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As the world is to end on 21st Dec 2012 then this is probably the catalyst that sparks the chain reaction that steers the human race to it's own demise.

Well hi there cheerful.

"
Best we get more shagging in then!

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By *uncpl2015Couple
over a year ago

Bridgend Area

"As the world is to end on 21st Dec 2012 then this is probably the catalyst that sparks the chain reaction that steers the human race to it's own demise.

Well hi there cheerful.

Best we get more shagging in then! "

See thread 'End of the World Orgy Planning Committee' for details lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm in agreement with you Jane "

Fuck me! A Wishy / Satisfy Jane axis. Something I never thought I would see.

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By *eenonfun2Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace.

If the Israelis laid down their weapons, there would be no Israel.

Palestinians arent really interested in Israel or Israelis existing at all though are they.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back.

Definatly the palestians for me."

You what? Everyone should take a look at the history properly first.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Neither. Personally I'd love to be able to wave a magic wand and have all the nutters on both sides shipped off to an uninhabited island in the Arctic.I'd give them some weapons and and let them annihilate each other. The other Israelis and Palestinians who are happy to live and let live and aren't really interested in religions-particularly if they are dour with a tendency towards fanaticism, like Judaism and Islam- I would leave in Israel to live in peace with each other in their beautiful country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Neither. Personally I'd love to be able to wave a magic wand and have all the nutters on both sides shipped off to an uninhabited island in the Arctic.I'd give them some weapons and and let them annihilate each other. The other Israelis and Palestinians who are happy to live and let live and aren't really interested in religions-particularly if they are dour with a tendency towards fanaticism, like Judaism and Islam- I would leave in Israel to live in peace with each other in their beautiful country."

That sounds more like Utopia and as we all know, it doesn't exist, unfortunately.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx"

So you're happy to be a serial loser, eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx

So you're happy to be a serial loser, eh?"

yes, we lost in Basra, Sangin, Helmand. This gave me a unique perspective perhaps lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx"

How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx

So you're happy to be a serial loser, eh?

yes, we lost in Basra, Sangin, Helmand. This gave me a unique perspective perhaps lol"

Unique perhaps. Maybe blinkered.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx

How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?

He's a fully paid up member of the pigmy army.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx

How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?

Nope, born in Derry to Presbyterian parents. Joined at 17. Politicized by service, end up supporting my fellow county men ten yrs later ona non sectarian, non religious basis, xx

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx

How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?

Nope, born in Derry to Presbyterian parents. Joined at 17. Politicized by service, end up supporting my fellow county men ten yrs later ona non sectarian, non religious basis, xx"

ie space cadet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx

How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?

Nope, born in Derry to Presbyterian parents. Joined at 17. Politicized by service, end up supporting my fellow county men ten yrs later ona non sectarian, non religious basis, xx

ie space cadet."

Hey, I know the sectarian divide in Glasgow, but no, completely real and practical Republican x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx

How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?

Nope, born in Derry to Presbyterian parents. Joined at 17. Politicized by service, end up supporting my fellow county men ten yrs later ona non sectarian, non religious basis, xx"

Well that's why we have free minds so we can think for ourselves and change our loyalties if circumstance warrants it. As for hating Zionists, hate is the strongest of human emotions. Hate allows things like the Holocaust to occur. Hate allows people to fly packed jetliners into packed skyscrapers. Hate permits the unforgiving killing of people who had no active part in whatever 'struggle' the oppressed think they had a part in.

I cannot for the life of me think of one single person on this planet that I truly and utterly hate. It's just not in me. Indifference yes, hate, no.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx

How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?

Nope, born in Derry to Presbyterian parents. Joined at 17. Politicized by service, end up supporting my fellow county men ten yrs later ona non sectarian, non religious basis, xx

ie space cadet.

Hey, I know the sectarian divide in Glasgow, but no, completely real and practical Republican x"

So wrap the Green Flag 'round you, to die were far more sweet.

Just don't expect Home Start or Relay.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28]"

I spent 6mths with Israle Para-commandos, you could hate such people I am sure

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Palestine.

This is what used to be said during the 19th and 20th century to establish the state of israel; 'Palestine is a land without people. And the Jews are a people without a land.'

That does not justify over 80 years of violence. Why cant they all just live together in one land. They are all still humans.

What ever happened to humanity, we will never know!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..............

I cannot for the life of me think of one single person on this planet that I truly and utterly hate. It's just not in me. Indifference yes, hate, no."

I can think of lots.

I choose not to but that's a different matter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The main problem is Zionism.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28]

I spent 6mths with Israle Para-commandos, you could hate such people I am sure"

I could. I don't, but I'd make sure I spelled it properly.

Ziva David's charachter has a lot of nonsense to answer for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28]

I spent 6mths with Israle Para-commandos, you could hate such people I am sure

I could. I don't, but I'd make sure I spelled it properly.

Ziva David's charachter has a lot of nonsense to answer for."

better soldiers than I or mine, just hideously fascistic

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28]

I spent 6mths with Israle Para-commandos, you could hate such people I am sure

I could. I don't, but I'd make sure I spelled it properly.

Ziva David's charachter has a lot of nonsense to answer for.

better soldiers than I or mine, just hideously fascistic"

Indeed.

Mazel tov.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28]

I spent 6mths with Israle Para-commandos, you could hate such people I am sure

I could. I don't, but I'd make sure I spelled it properly.

Ziva David's charachter has a lot of nonsense to answer for."

Character.

I'd make sure your own spelling is up to speed before throwing stones at someone else.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

So a question to our born again Republican Irishman.....your support for Hamas, because that is who are sending rockets into Israel, not your average Palestinians here, Hamas.

Have you even begun to look into the beliefs and aspirations of Hamas?

Their hatred doesn't end with Israel, not even with the Zionists.....it goes far deeper, even as deep as you and the people who are nearest and dearest to you.

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By *reedy_for_funCouple
over a year ago

My House

"If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace.

If the Israelis laid down their weapons, there would be no Israel.

Palestinians arent really interested in Israel or Israelis existing at all though are they.

So, what you're saying is: stuff the Palestinians because Arabs don't like Israel? So, because the Jews have been persecuted for the last 2 thousand years its perfectly fine for them to persecute another race? Where would you like to draw the line here? Destroy both races, just let the Jews kill the Arabs, let Israel die a tortuous death?

Israel is a state formed in violence. So, even though they took the land by violence (with american help) the fact that they have since stole even more land (West Bank anyone?), illegally inserted communities there (not my words, the U.N.s' words), diverted water supplies from Palistinian land for their own farming, murdered families who refused to move, crushed Palistine economically, created an illegal embargo (See U.N) to prevent medical/food supplies from entering the country etc you think Palistine should just say thanks? Israel is, by far, the stronger country. They should, to create a lasting peace, remove the illegal squatters, restore the water, allow medical/food aid, push forward the hand of peace to their neighbours. Yes, it may take time, yes there WILL be Palistinians who wont accept peace but we have seen the same in N.I haven't we? Those that want peace will work together to overcome the radicals so the region can live in relative peace - like N.I, the general community will point to those that want to keep the hate going making it easier for both sides to take action against them.

But that means BOTH sides taking action and as it stands, Israel won't stand up to the hard-line, ultra religious squatters, when they do, Hamas will be more flexable to agreement and when they ARE, peace will follow in short order. It may take 10 years but compared to another 50 years of war and hate that's nothing is it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A quote from a previous post on this thread.....

"""""During the near 40 years of the most recent troubles in Northern Ireland, the British also possessed far greater firepower than the IRA/Sinn Fein. Did we go about bombing Catholic areas of the Shankhill? Did we invade Catholic sympathising areas of Eire? Did we nuke Dublin? No. We could have, and not even blinked an eye. But we didn't."""""

There is no Catholic areas in the shankill, and surely if you look at history the British did infact invade Ireland. And as for Nuking Dublin, that's a bit of a silly statement simply because if the British Nuked Dublin then they wiped out the entire British population. The IRA may have got weapons from America but lets be honest the British did help arm the Loyalist paramilitaries and the British army aren't exactly innocent in Ireland's troubled past, they've killed or had their part in the murders of many innocent Catholics.

Britain hasn't stepped up to do anything in Gaza because their puppet master in America hasn't told them too, and America don't do anything because there's no benefit there for them like there is in Iraq or Afghanistan,

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 01:09:46]

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Is Béal Feirste sinking?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Neither - they both want peace but on their own terms. Reality doesn't work like that so both regions are culpable for the ongoing conflict and accountable for the otherwise avoidable fatalities.

Israel is very heavy handed though and the Israeli government permit development on land that is contentious and likely to spark further dissonance and foment resentment toward their country and it's citizens from the Palestinians.

It's a very complex situation with much more to it than controversial housing developments - ultimately it can only be resolved by communication and compromise by political leaders from both regions .

unfortunately their seems to be a reluctance for that to happen currently.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lets not forget about the fact, that the Palestinian people democratically voted Hamas to be their political leaders. But, yet, the West does not recognise them?

Hmm, and why is that i wonder?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lets look at statistics, over a hundred people have been killed by the Israeli this past week, most being children and a new born baby.

On the other hand, only three Israeli's died.

Are you telling me that new born baby was a threat?

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"I do think there are faults (an understatement) on both sides but... Israel is the problem in the middle east. The sooner the west (USA) tell the Israelis to wind their necks in the better. I cant think of bigger shit stirring oppressive warmongering country than Israel and that includes Iran. "

I think you need to look back through their history, say 70 years or so!

A disenfranchised people through out history who don't want rockets falling on to their civilian population or Suicide bombers on busses in the middle of the day! (terrorist act)

Sad thing is I'm sure there are people on both sides who just want to get along.

Religion has a lot to answer for...

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"Lets look at statistics, over a hundred people have been killed by the Israeli this past week, most being children and a new born baby.

On the other hand, only three Israeli's died.

Are you telling me that new born baby was a threat?"

Sadly if you Plant your rockets in civilian populations casualties will occur.

Who was in the bus today with the suicide bomber? Women,children and old people!

Cowardly terrorist act!

How many rockets were launched today?

If your home kept being vandalised by the local yobs at what point would you say enough us enough?

People have died here for defending their homes.

I accept this is a simplistic analogy but its no less frightening for those inside the house.

This goes way beyond land and possessions, it's a religious hatred that will never be sorted.

Sadly one of these faiths/races turned the other cheek once before and were nearly wiped out for it.

As for the comments re the taking of land well I would like to remind you that at some point in history we've all been conquered by others, doesn't make it right but it seems to be a condition if the human psyche and allows us to have and enjoy our freedom.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Palestine

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By *enuineplayers plus 1Couple
over a year ago

newport

"No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back.

Definatly the palestians for me."
isreal should have riled its army over the border and sorted the terrorists out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets not forget about the fact, that the Palestinian people democratically voted Hamas to be their political leaders. But, yet, the West does not recognise them?

Hmm, and why is that i wonder?"

Because Hamas support and are actively engaged in acts of terrorism. The UK govt doesn't deal with terrorists and for the West Bank to ever have a chance of being recognised as the official state of Palestine it has to abandon bombs and bullets.

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By *U1966Man
over a year ago

Devon

They voted for hamas and therefore knew the consequences Israel should invade or the problem will keep coming back

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Béal Feirste sinking?

What does this even mean??

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