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"18:20 - phonecall from Dad's hospital ward, where he's been for just over 8 weeks Them: we're discharging him home tomorrow before midday. Me: errrrr what happened to 24hrs notice? He has no keys, no food in the house and there's minor issues like I have to work tomorrow [I'm chairing an interview panel, in person] Them: we forgot about the 24hrs notice. Me: can you delay till Weds, when I can try to work remotely from his house? Them: no, the discharge paperwork has been done and now discharge is closed till 09:00 tomorrow Me: can you not sort it at 09:00 tomorrow? Them: no, he'll be in the discharge lounge just after breakfast (which is a about 08:00!) Me: he has no food. No keys. I. Cannot. Come. Tomorrow. Until. After. Work. Them: errrrr we'll try and sort it in the morning. How can they try to discharge elderly people, who have dementia, without giving any sort of notice? To a house they KNOW must have no food (because he's been in for 8wks with no "end" date) and no way of getting into his house (they know I took his wallet and keys away in May, because they ASKED me to, for safekeeping). When they KNOW the only relatives live well over an hour away, both with young children and FT jobs (because we've explained several times). I'm not a neglectful daughter by any means. But I can't just drop work for the next morning, after 18:20 when my manager has finished and won't be back till the morning! And they KNOW I'm also disabled and struggle to do things like carry shopping into a house with a giant step at the front, and rely on my own husband to do that stuff here (because I've told them and they've seen me in my wheelchair). It's ridiculous "they don't care it's a joke I'm going in for an operation in the morning and I am quite nervous about it | |||
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"18:20 - phonecall from Dad's hospital ward, where he's been for just over 8 weeks Them: we're discharging him home tomorrow before midday. Me: errrrr what happened to 24hrs notice? He has no keys, no food in the house and there's minor issues like I have to work tomorrow [I'm chairing an interview panel, in person] Them: we forgot about the 24hrs notice. Me: can you delay till Weds, when I can try to work remotely from his house? Them: no, the discharge paperwork has been done and now discharge is closed till 09:00 tomorrow Me: can you not sort it at 09:00 tomorrow? Them: no, he'll be in the discharge lounge just after breakfast (which is a about 08:00!) Me: he has no food. No keys. I. Cannot. Come. Tomorrow. Until. After. Work. Them: errrrr we'll try and sort it in the morning. How can they try to discharge elderly people, who have dementia, without giving any sort of notice? To a house they KNOW must have no food (because he's been in for 8wks with no "end" date) and no way of getting into his house (they know I took his wallet and keys away in May, because they ASKED me to, for safekeeping). When they KNOW the only relatives live well over an hour away, both with young children and FT jobs (because we've explained several times). I'm not a neglectful daughter by any means. But I can't just drop work for the next morning, after 18:20 when my manager has finished and won't be back till the morning! And they KNOW I'm also disabled and struggle to do things like carry shopping into a house with a giant step at the front, and rely on my own husband to do that stuff here (because I've told them and they've seen me in my wheelchair). It's ridiculous they don't care it's a joke I'm going in for an operation in the morning and I am quite nervous about it "I hope all goes well and you recover quickly. | |||
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"18:20 - phonecall from Dad's hospital ward, where he's been for just over 8 weeks Them: we're discharging him home tomorrow before midday. Me: errrrr what happened to 24hrs notice? He has no keys, no food in the house and there's minor issues like I have to work tomorrow [I'm chairing an interview panel, in person] Them: we forgot about the 24hrs notice. Me: can you delay till Weds, when I can try to work remotely from his house? Them: no, the discharge paperwork has been done and now discharge is closed till 09:00 tomorrow Me: can you not sort it at 09:00 tomorrow? Them: no, he'll be in the discharge lounge just after breakfast (which is a about 08:00!) Me: he has no food. No keys. I. Cannot. Come. Tomorrow. Until. After. Work. Them: errrrr we'll try and sort it in the morning. How can they try to discharge elderly people, who have dementia, without giving any sort of notice? To a house they KNOW must have no food (because he's been in for 8wks with no "end" date) and no way of getting into his house (they know I took his wallet and keys away in May, because they ASKED me to, for safekeeping). When they KNOW the only relatives live well over an hour away, both with young children and FT jobs (because we've explained several times). I'm not a neglectful daughter by any means. But I can't just drop work for the next morning, after 18:20 when my manager has finished and won't be back till the morning! And they KNOW I'm also disabled and struggle to do things like carry shopping into a house with a giant step at the front, and rely on my own husband to do that stuff here (because I've told them and they've seen me in my wheelchair). It's ridiculous they don't care it's a joke I'm going in for an operation in the morning and I am quite nervous about it
I hope all goes well and you recover quickly. "thank you x | |||
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"They can’t ( or rather, they shouldn’t) because it would be classed as an unsafe discharge." You are right they can't but unfortunately they do as we have experienced similar. | |||
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"Not Wigan by any chance? They treated my elderly mum appallingly. " No. Dad doesn't live locally. One on Merseyside. | |||
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"Not Wigan by any chance? They treated my elderly mum appallingly. " they did the same with my dad 6 year ago kept him there for 3 months couldn't make their mind up if he had cancer or not and then when they confirmed he did it was too late he passed away 2 weeks later | |||
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"Not Wigan by any chance? They treated my elderly mum appallingly. No. Dad doesn't live locally. One on Merseyside." I hope you get it sorted. Our elderly deserve better x | |||
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"What a nightmare for you both. I hope you can get something sorted" My brother is risking disciplinary action by asking for unpaid time off. I'm paying him his "wages" instead because he actually can't afford to take unpaid time off. The hospital insist he'll be discharged tomorrow, come hell or high water. The whole thing is just incredibly stressful. | |||
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"What a nightmare for you both. I hope you can get something sorted My brother is risking disciplinary action by asking for unpaid time off. I'm paying him his "wages" instead because he actually can't afford to take unpaid time off. The hospital insist he'll be discharged tomorrow, come hell or high water. The whole thing is just incredibly stressful. " Thats terrible! I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm assuming a care package has been sorted for him? | |||
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" You are right they can't but unfortunately they do as we have experienced similar. " I was once discharged after five nights with no notice at 11.30pm and another time 5am. | |||
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"What a nightmare for you both. I hope you can get something sorted My brother is risking disciplinary action by asking for unpaid time off. I'm paying him his "wages" instead because he actually can't afford to take unpaid time off. The hospital insist he'll be discharged tomorrow, come hell or high water. The whole thing is just incredibly stressful. Thats terrible! I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm assuming a care package has been sorted for him?" Not exactly, no. The short term post-discharge team are still unavailable so (apparently) a HCA will call but only once a day (PM) instead of carers 2x per day. We've had no say in this decision at all and they only told us on Friday that OT had recommended 2x visits (AM and PM), at least until they're clear he's remembering to eat and is steady enough on his feet. He's not left his hospital ward for 8wks, FFS. | |||
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"What a nightmare for you both. I hope you can get something sorted My brother is risking disciplinary action by asking for unpaid time off. I'm paying him his "wages" instead because he actually can't afford to take unpaid time off. The hospital insist he'll be discharged tomorrow, come hell or high water. The whole thing is just incredibly stressful. Thats terrible! I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm assuming a care package has been sorted for him? Not exactly, no. The short term post-discharge team are still unavailable so (apparently) a HCA will call but only once a day (PM) instead of carers 2x per day. We've had no say in this decision at all and they only told us on Friday that OT had recommended 2x visits (AM and PM), at least until they're clear he's remembering to eat and is steady enough on his feet. He's not left his hospital ward for 8wks, FFS." Can you not raise a safeguarding concern and refuse to collect him tomorrow morning? I know this is difficult but surely they can't just discharge him knowing he doesn't have the care he needs. | |||
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"What a nightmare for you both. I hope you can get something sorted My brother is risking disciplinary action by asking for unpaid time off. I'm paying him his "wages" instead because he actually can't afford to take unpaid time off. The hospital insist he'll be discharged tomorrow, come hell or high water. The whole thing is just incredibly stressful. Thats terrible! I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm assuming a care package has been sorted for him? Not exactly, no. The short term post-discharge team are still unavailable so (apparently) a HCA will call but only once a day (PM) instead of carers 2x per day. We've had no say in this decision at all and they only told us on Friday that OT had recommended 2x visits (AM and PM), at least until they're clear he's remembering to eat and is steady enough on his feet. He's not left his hospital ward for 8wks, FFS. Can you not raise a safeguarding concern and refuse to collect him tomorrow morning? I know this is difficult but surely they can't just discharge him knowing he doesn't have the care he needs. " They claim a new review today decrees one visit in the evening is sufficient until such time the short term care team are available. I'm unclear about how two such different assessments can exist from Friday one week to Monday the next, when nothing changed with his dementia etc. I didn't get the option to say no. I was told he WILL be sent to discharge after breakfast tomorrow. How the feck they expect him to get in the house, I have no idea. | |||
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"He's been brought by hospital transport. Brother and I agreed that to risk us getting him across the car park, to the car, when I am also disabled, is too dangerous because he's unsteady on his feet so I asked that when he did get discharged, it was via professional transport. The last time I took him to a medical appointment on my own, he had sedation and they refused to push him in a wheelchair to my car. I had to try and keep him upright entirely on my own, while self propelling my wheelchair. I cannot push a hospital wheelchair and push my own. " Mrs KC as difficult as it's going to be could you steel yourself to simply refuse to cooperate. As I said earlier if hospital transport take him home and can't gain access what would happen? | |||
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"They can’t ( or rather, they shouldn’t) because it would be classed as an unsafe discharge." Exactly this!!! Does he have a social worker? Or a home care package? Get on to PALS & social services duty team immediately & report this!! I work in social care (more the finance side) & read about these sort of cases all the time. It’s not fair & the discharge should be refused. J x | |||
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"He's been brought by hospital transport. Brother and I agreed that to risk us getting him across the car park, to the car, when I am also disabled, is too dangerous because he's unsteady on his feet so I asked that when he did get discharged, it was via professional transport. The last time I took him to a medical appointment on my own, he had sedation and they refused to push him in a wheelchair to my car. I had to try and keep him upright entirely on my own, while self propelling my wheelchair. I cannot push a hospital wheelchair and push my own. Mrs KC as difficult as it's going to be could you steel yourself to simply refuse to cooperate. As I said earlier if hospital transport take him home and can't gain access what would happen? " I agree with this. | |||
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"They can’t ( or rather, they shouldn’t) because it would be classed as an unsafe discharge. Exactly this!!! Does he have a social worker? Or a home care package? Get on to PALS & social services duty team immediately & report this!! I work in social care (more the finance side) & read about these sort of cases all the time. It’s not fair & the discharge should be refused. J x" Yes, he has a social worker. Allegedly been involved but on one day, managed to assess him in person without the two (mentally competent) fellow inmates actually seeing her. Both denied anyone had assessed him in person but notes said a SW had assessed in a morning. Both men were stuck in bed so couldn't have been "out"! We've been waiting for a care package for several weeks and today, at 18:20, have been informed that the previously recommended 2x daily carer visits can be replaced with 1x HCA visit in an evening for an undermined period. I tried to refuse the discharge but I kept being told he WAS going. Paperwork done, medication issued. Etc. | |||
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"I'm sorry. I know exactly how you're feeling having experienced similar but without the added stress of being a long way off and a wheelchair user. What would happen if they took him home and he was unable to get in ? " I honestly have no idea! I don't want him to go through that either, to sit outside his house, where he's been desperate to go, and potentially be taken back to A&E because his ward bed will be rapidly reassigned after breakfast! | |||
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"I'm sorry. I know exactly how you're feeling having experienced similar but without the added stress of being a long way off and a wheelchair user. What would happen if they took him home and he was unable to get in ? I honestly have no idea! I don't want him to go through that either, to sit outside his house, where he's been desperate to go, and potentially be taken back to A&E because his ward bed will be rapidly reassigned after breakfast! " I understand. I really am sorry. | |||
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"I really don’t understand the NHS lately. My mum has had a heart bypass few years ago and was having pains where she had the opp to point where she was in pain all day when breathing, moving around so my sister called for an ambulance they said ohh it's a 5 hour wait. So my sister takes her in to the A&E. I get there a little while later and see parked up at least 12 ambulances and by no means was any of them moving for like an hour and in no rush to get back out. Mum was at hospital for 10.30pm and told wait time is at least 8 hours wasn't sent home till 7am. Had one doctor on I mean seriously some people were there from 6pm and still there at 6am a 12 hour wait what is the world coming to. I feel peoples frustration and I'm not trying to give the NHS a bad name they do a brilliant job but why can't they get extra staff where its needed and the ambulances back out there once they have dropped of the patient rather than sit all parked up. " 1. No beds available in the hospital means that patients are being looked after in the ambulance until a bed becomes available. 2. Currently over 8,000 advertised vacancies for doctors and nearly 40,000 advertised vacancies for nurses. More staff than that are required for safety but Trusts dont have the cash, even if they could recruit. Training for medical staff has been underfunded for a long time, staff are exhausted, demoralised and some are self-isolating due to covid. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/25/worst-nhs-staffing-crisis-in-its-history-is-putting-patients-at-serious-risk-mps-warn | |||
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"What a nightmare for you both. I hope you can get something sorted My brother is risking disciplinary action by asking for unpaid time off. I'm paying him his "wages" instead because he actually can't afford to take unpaid time off. The hospital insist he'll be discharged tomorrow, come hell or high water. The whole thing is just incredibly stressful. " Whilst in hospital or under care if a company breaches a contract then they open there selves up to a whole heap of tribunal troubles as well as financial aspects of the breach Unfortunately if there isn’t an employment contract in place for instance paye or temporary staff or 0 hour contract then regrettably they are within there rights Which I think is what the issue may be here Main thing being is the supervisors managers etc may be good at there jobs but unfortunately don’t actually know the rules and regulations regarding employment Worse still most employees don’t know or understand said rules either Worth checking out weather the unpaid leave of absence is just and legal within the company policy | |||
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"What a nightmare for you both. I hope you can get something sorted My brother is risking disciplinary action by asking for unpaid time off. I'm paying him his "wages" instead because he actually can't afford to take unpaid time off. The hospital insist he'll be discharged tomorrow, come hell or high water. The whole thing is just incredibly stressful. Whilst in hospital or under care if a company breaches a contract then they open there selves up to a whole heap of tribunal troubles as well as financial aspects of the breach Unfortunately if there isn’t an employment contract in place for instance paye or temporary staff or 0 hour contract then regrettably they are within there rights Which I think is what the issue may be here Main thing being is the supervisors managers etc may be good at there jobs but unfortunately don’t actually know the rules and regulations regarding employment Worse still most employees don’t know or understand said rules either Worth checking out weather the unpaid leave of absence is just and legal within the company policy " My brother works for a well known British company, but is on probation as a new-ish employee. He is concerned his probation might be impacted or this specific situation being used against him. I'll be subbing him his day's wages anyway. I honestly cannot ditch being the chair on interviews tomorrow, unless a dire, dire emergency. My employer has already been extremely flexible in the past two months. | |||
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"Did your heels in. Ask to see his care plan..which they may not have done. " I haven't seen a care plan. I've been told HCA visit 1x a day and OT assessment sometime in the first week (!) at home. | |||
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"I really don’t understand the NHS lately. My mum has had a heart bypass few years ago and was having pains where she had the opp to point where she was in pain all day when breathing, moving around so my sister called for an ambulance they said ohh it's a 5 hour wait. So my sister takes her in to the A&E. I get there a little while later and see parked up at least 12 ambulances and by no means was any of them moving for like an hour and in no rush to get back out. Mum was at hospital for 10.30pm and told wait time is at least 8 hours wasn't sent home till 7am. Had one doctor on I mean seriously some people were there from 6pm and still there at 6am a 12 hour wait what is the world coming to. I feel peoples frustration and I'm not trying to give the NHS a bad name they do a brilliant job but why can't they get extra staff where its needed and the ambulances back out there once they have dropped of the patient rather than sit all parked up. 1. No beds available in the hospital means that patients are being looked after in the ambulance until a bed becomes available. 2. Currently over 8,000 advertised vacancies for doctors and nearly 40,000 advertised vacancies for nurses. More staff than that are required for safety but Trusts dont have the cash, even if they could recruit. Training for medical staff has been underfunded for a long time, staff are exhausted, demoralised and some are self-isolating due to covid. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/25/worst-nhs-staffing-crisis-in-its-history-is-putting-patients-at-serious-risk-mps-warn " They don't juste ambulances sit parked idolly. There would of been a reason even if its not an obvious one . | |||
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"Did your heels in. Ask to see his care plan..which they may not have done. I haven't seen a care plan. I've been told HCA visit 1x a day and OT assessment sometime in the first week (!) at home." We had the same. I'm no expert but I do know they couldn't discharge me nan, she has dementia, home until a full assessment/risk assesment was done and a care plan in place as she lived alone. They had to have OT got to the house check everything. They put in grab bars and and bath hoist before allowed home, plus sorting a carer once a day and food delivered. Like I say no expert but I'd ask to see his care plan for home and see what they say. But don't ever feel a neglectful daughter. | |||
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"Shouldn't adult social care be involved? " They are. Allegedly. They've sent through their "how much you'll pay for your care" leaflet effectively enough. | |||
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"Did your heels in. Ask to see his care plan..which they may not have done. I haven't seen a care plan. I've been told HCA visit 1x a day and OT assessment sometime in the first week (!) at home. We had the same. I'm no expert but I do know they couldn't discharge me nan, she has dementia, home until a full assessment/risk assesment was done and a care plan in place as she lived alone. They had to have OT got to the house check everything. They put in grab bars and and bath hoist before allowed home, plus sorting a carer once a day and food delivered. Like I say no expert but I'd ask to see his care plan for home and see what they say. But don't ever feel a neglectful daughter. " I feel utterly useless. Sitting at the endoscopy unit, in my wheelchair, being expected to accompany a wobbly elderly man to my car safely made me feel utterly incompetent. Porters flat out refused to take him beyond the main lobby, they would not assist me in getting him to the car. I can't lift shopping into his house because I'll have to use my crutches. I'll end up falling, potentially and I've told the SW, the staff have met me, seen me in my wheelchair but my physical issues seem irrelevant and I'm expected to just deal with it. | |||
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"I really don’t understand the NHS lately. My mum has had a heart bypass few years ago and was having pains where she had the opp to point where she was in pain all day when breathing, moving around so my sister called for an ambulance they said ohh it's a 5 hour wait. So my sister takes her in to the A&E. I get there a little while later and see parked up at least 12 ambulances and by no means was any of them moving for like an hour and in no rush to get back out. Mum was at hospital for 10.30pm and told wait time is at least 8 hours wasn't sent home till 7am. Had one doctor on I mean seriously some people were there from 6pm and still there at 6am a 12 hour wait what is the world coming to. I feel peoples frustration and I'm not trying to give the NHS a bad name they do a brilliant job but why can't they get extra staff where its needed and the ambulances back out there once they have dropped of the patient rather than sit all parked up. " The public really don't understand the level of understaffing in the NHS. Paramedics are notoriously held up in handover queues because there are literally no staff to take over. Its not just take the patient and leave them, they take the care of the patient over, which requires several health professions and space within their capacity. At least with the Paramedics staying the safety and care of the patient is maintained until the hospital has staff capacity to take over. But of course that knocks back onto ambulance wait times. | |||
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". The last time I took him to a medical appointment on my own, he had sedation and they refused to push him in a wheelchair to my car. I had to try and keep him upright entirely on my own, while self propelling my wheelchair. I cannot push a hospital wheelchair and push my own. Mrs KC as difficult as it's going to be could you steel yourself to simply refuse to cooperate. As I said earlier if hospital transport take him home and can't gain access what would happen? " If the PTs crew can not get him in the house or doesn't believe him safe to be left they can refuse to leave him and bring him back. it will mean he will have to go through A&E again. That is assuming they don't refuse to transport him if they know they can not get him inside | |||
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"Did your heels in. Ask to see his care plan..which they may not have done. I haven't seen a care plan. I've been told HCA visit 1x a day and OT assessment sometime in the first week (!) at home. We had the same. I'm no expert but I do know they couldn't discharge me nan, she has dementia, home until a full assessment/risk assesment was done and a care plan in place as she lived alone. They had to have OT got to the house check everything. They put in grab bars and and bath hoist before allowed home, plus sorting a carer once a day and food delivered. Like I say no expert but I'd ask to see his care plan for home and see what they say. But don't ever feel a neglectful daughter. I feel utterly useless. Sitting at the endoscopy unit, in my wheelchair, being expected to accompany a wobbly elderly man to my car safely made me feel utterly incompetent. Porters flat out refused to take him beyond the main lobby, they would not assist me in getting him to the car. I can't lift shopping into his house because I'll have to use my crutches. I'll end up falling, potentially and I've told the SW, the staff have met me, seen me in my wheelchair but my physical issues seem irrelevant and I'm expected to just deal with it. " This is shocking, so sorry you are experiencing these issues | |||
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"I really don’t understand the NHS lately. My mum has had a heart bypass few years ago and was having pains where she had the opp to point where she was in pain all day when breathing, moving around so my sister called for an ambulance they said ohh it's a 5 hour wait. So my sister takes her in to the A&E. I get there a little while later and see parked up at least 12 ambulances and by no means was any of them moving for like an hour and in no rush to get back out. Mum was at hospital for 10.30pm and told wait time is at least 8 hours wasn't sent home till 7am. Had one doctor on I mean seriously some people were there from 6pm and still there at 6am a 12 hour wait what is the world coming to. I feel peoples frustration and I'm not trying to give the NHS a bad name they do a brilliant job but why can't they get extra staff where its needed and the ambulances back out there once they have dropped of the patient rather than sit all parked up. The public really don't understand the level of understaffing in the NHS. Paramedics are notoriously held up in handover queues because there are literally no staff to take over. Its not just take the patient and leave them, they take the care of the patient over, which requires several health professions and space within their capacity. At least with the Paramedics staying the safety and care of the patient is maintained until the hospital has staff capacity to take over. But of course that knocks back onto ambulance wait times."  | |||
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". The last time I took him to a medical appointment on my own, he had sedation and they refused to push him in a wheelchair to my car. I had to try and keep him upright entirely on my own, while self propelling my wheelchair. I cannot push a hospital wheelchair and push my own. Mrs KC as difficult as it's going to be could you steel yourself to simply refuse to cooperate. As I said earlier if hospital transport take him home and can't gain access what would happen? If the PTs crew can not get him in the house or doesn't believe him safe to be left they can refuse to leave him and bring him back. it will mean he will have to go through A&E again. That is assuming they don't refuse to transport him if they know they can not get him inside" This is what I want to avoid at all costs. He's confused enough as it is and still recovering from a broken neck. The last thing he needs is to have his house dangled at him through the window of a minibus, another enormous wait in A&E (was over 18hrs when he was freshly injured) then another set of being bumped around different wards every few days. He gets more and more confused with every move  | |||
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"They can’t ( or rather, they shouldn’t) because it would be classed as an unsafe discharge. Exactly this!!! Does he have a social worker? Or a home care package? Get on to PALS & social services duty team immediately & report this!! I work in social care (more the finance side) & read about these sort of cases all the time. It’s not fair & the discharge should be refused. J x Yes, he has a social worker. Allegedly been involved but on one day, managed to assess him in person without the two (mentally competent) fellow inmates actually seeing her. Both denied anyone had assessed him in person but notes said a SW had assessed in a morning. Both men were stuck in bed so couldn't have been "out"! We've been waiting for a care package for several weeks and today, at 18:20, have been informed that the previously recommended 2x daily carer visits can be replaced with 1x HCA visit in an evening for an undermined period. I tried to refuse the discharge but I kept being told he WAS going. Paperwork done, medication issued. Etc." I am effing fuming on your behalf!!! This should. It be happening!!!!! | |||
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"They can’t ( or rather, they shouldn’t) because it would be classed as an unsafe discharge. Exactly this!!! Does he have a social worker? Or a home care package? Get on to PALS & social services duty team immediately & report this!! I work in social care (more the finance side) & read about these sort of cases all the time. It’s not fair & the discharge should be refused. J x Yes, he has a social worker. Allegedly been involved but on one day, managed to assess him in person without the two (mentally competent) fellow inmates actually seeing her. Both denied anyone had assessed him in person but notes said a SW had assessed in a morning. Both men were stuck in bed so couldn't have been "out"! We've been waiting for a care package for several weeks and today, at 18:20, have been informed that the previously recommended 2x daily carer visits can be replaced with 1x HCA visit in an evening for an undermined period. I tried to refuse the discharge but I kept being told he WAS going. Paperwork done, medication issued. Etc. I am effing fuming on your behalf!!! This should. It be happening!!!!!" I only asked for an extra day! Said I can most likely work remotely on Weds. Etc. But no, the paperwork is done. No-one communicated with us till well after 6pm, after the discharge team had finished for the day. Felt deliberate. He's technically "bed blocking" on an orthopaedic ward, awaiting his home care package (that's now been watered down). | |||
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"They can’t ( or rather, they shouldn’t) because it would be classed as an unsafe discharge. You are right they can't but unfortunately they do as we have experienced similar. " we have it happen often. Had a resident arrive home gone 11pm the other week. We had been expecting them but had been told 2pm x | |||
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"18:20 - phonecall from Dad's hospital ward, where he's been for just over 8 weeks Them: we're discharging him home tomorrow before midday. Me: errrrr what happened to 24hrs notice? He has no keys, no food in the house and there's minor issues like I have to work tomorrow [I'm chairing an interview panel, in person] Them: we forgot about the 24hrs notice. Me: can you delay till Weds, when I can try to work remotely from his house? Them: no, the discharge paperwork has been done and now discharge is closed till 09:00 tomorrow Me: can you not sort it at 09:00 tomorrow? Them: no, he'll be in the discharge lounge just after breakfast (which is a about 08:00!) Me: he has no food. No keys. I. Cannot. Come. Tomorrow. Until. After. Work. Them: errrrr we'll try and sort it in the morning. How can they try to discharge elderly people, who have dementia, without giving any sort of notice? To a house they KNOW must have no food (because he's been in for 8wks with no "end" date) and no way of getting into his house (they know I took his wallet and keys away in May, because they ASKED me to, for safekeeping). When they KNOW the only relatives live well over an hour away, both with young children and FT jobs (because we've explained several times). I'm not a neglectful daughter by any means. But I can't just drop work for the next morning, after 18:20 when my manager has finished and won't be back till the morning! And they KNOW I'm also disabled and struggle to do things like carry shopping into a house with a giant step at the front, and rely on my own husband to do that stuff here (because I've told them and they've seen me in my wheelchair). It's ridiculous "The Royal Cornwall Hospital Trust did exactly this to my father several weeks ago. He has a couple of house sharing companions (_NOT_ carers, they look out for him, but he is not their responsibility, and they are in their sixties themselves) who were away on holiday, the hospital knew they were away. The hospital had tried to call them, and knew that there was nobody at home, nobody answering the phone. My father had told the hospital staff that nobody was at home. On a Wednesday afternoon I got a call from some hospital administrator saying that my dad had given her my number, and was I going to be at his house the following day to receive him home? I explained that I live 300 plus miles away, that I would not be there, and that his house sharers would not be there. She said that he was going home anyway. I asked what he was going to do about getting food? "He can walk" apparently. Yes. About 10 metres with a zimmer frame. Had social care been arranged I asked? Apparently not. No social care to be had. After some discussion, mainly involving me asking her who was going to take legal liability when my father died of starvation, she hung up on me. Next afternoon... Another phone call... They had taken my father home, he hadn't got a key, the house was locked up, nobody was there. When could I arrive with the key? "I live 300 plus miles away, I have told you all this...". Father gets taken back to hospital. My assumption is that he will now stay at hospital or some other care facility until at least house sharers get back from holiday. After all, it has been established that the house is locked up, nobody is there, it is not possible to gain access. Next afternoon. Phone call from father... He was at home, alone, with zero support. The hospital had put him in a taxi, taken him home, where a locksmith was waiting! Locksmith drills out the lock, replaces it with a new one, taxi man puts father inside the house, locksmith gives him the keys! So now he's home alone. With a carrier bag the hospital provided containing a couple of tea bags, a couple of sachets of sugar, a pint of milk, and some custard creams. And note that the hospital did not call me to say that father had in fact been dumped at home, if it wasn't for him being able to get to the phone, I would never have known. Me, phone calls to hospital, social care etc. "It's the weekend now, we can't do anything. We might be able to get someone to go check on him on Monday". Cue some strong words from me, other end hanging up on me. Very fortunately, a wonderful person who happens to use this site, and happens to live only a few miles away from him, was able to step in and give emergency assistance [for which I will be forever grateful]. House sharers got back a week later. First visit from anyone involved in social care was 4 days after he was sent home. Several weeks on... Still zero care arranged by the social care department. Some visits now happening irregularly, on a non-official, no liability basis - from voluntary organisations! The entire health and social care system is totally broken. I have not been able to find a single person who will take any legal responsibility. Government will not even admit that there is a problem. Answers - I have none. | |||
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"Feeling like your only option is to use your father as a pawn must be awful, I'm so sorry. The only other thing I can think of is to threaten / loop in your MP and/or the local press - see if you can shame them into following their own procedures. Tricky in the evening, I know. Hope it goes OK." Won't help. My fathers house sharers have been on the case with their MP. Zero results. | |||
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"They can’t ( or rather, they shouldn’t) because it would be classed as an unsafe discharge." They just found some hospital administrator or something to tick a box on a computer saying that my father was safe to discharge. Because they had seen him walk to the toilet, so he could obviously walk. With a zimmer frame. Taking five minutes to get there. And needing assistance to get back to his bed. But that still counts as being independently capable. Could not find out who actually authorised it. They refused to give me that information quoting medical confidentiality (I have medical power of attorney, but their argument is that my POA is not valid while my father is conscious and able to make his own decisions, and they know he is because the person who certified him capable says he is - the person who they will not tell me who they are...). | |||
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"You’re lucky they didn’t just put him in a taxi and send him home!! " Apologies if I don't find this comforting. Once he's home without the previously agreed 2x care visits, someone has to support him. That'll be me. Disabled myself and over an hour's drive away AND responsible for a 5yo on school holidays. And trying to work FT. And trying (still) to resolve my Grandad's Estate. | |||
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"You’re lucky they didn’t just put him in a taxi and send him home!! " That is exactly what they did the first time. He only got taken back to the hospital because the taxi driver refused to be responsible for leaving him on the doorstep. According to father, the taxi man argued with hospital on the phone for half an hour, hospital were for just leaving him there. Taxi man ended up saying it wasn't right and took him back to the hospital. | |||
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"You’re lucky they didn’t just put him in a taxi and send him home!! Apologies if I don't find this comforting. Once he's home without the previously agreed 2x care visits, someone has to support him. That'll be me. Disabled myself and over an hour's drive away AND responsible for a 5yo on school holidays. And trying to work FT. And trying (still) to resolve my Grandad's Estate. " You know I can absolutely understand the position you find yourself in having experienced similar myself. I typed out a long reply but deleted it because I don't want to appear patronising. Please consider yourself in this and that your dad might have to do some things he doesn't like because you have responsibilities to many other people too. | |||
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"You’re lucky they didn’t just put him in a taxi and send him home!! Apologies if I don't find this comforting. Once he's home without the previously agreed 2x care visits, someone has to support him. That'll be me. Disabled myself and over an hour's drive away AND responsible for a 5yo on school holidays. And trying to work FT. And trying (still) to resolve my Grandad's Estate. You know I can absolutely understand the position you find yourself in having experienced similar myself. I typed out a long reply but deleted it because I don't want to appear patronising. Please consider yourself in this and that your dad might have to do some things he doesn't like because you have responsibilities to many other people too. " My Dad lacks capacity. He doesn't understand. He doesn't remember what anyone tells him from one day to the next. I can tell him the situation all I like (and I have), it'll not be retained unfortunately. You should see the stream of confusion in my email inbox over the past two months. Some of it makes absolutely no sense in any language and much is the same thing but sent repeatedly at different times of the day/night because he's forgotten he's sent it. My Dad has been put under DoLS during his stay because he wasn't deemed able to make competent decisions and was effectively being held against his will. | |||
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"Does your local authority have a crisis team?" He's in a different LA. They've got an out of hours emergency SC team? | |||
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"You’re lucky they didn’t just put him in a taxi and send him home!! Apologies if I don't find this comforting. Once he's home without the previously agreed 2x care visits, someone has to support him. That'll be me. Disabled myself and over an hour's drive away AND responsible for a 5yo on school holidays. And trying to work FT. And trying (still) to resolve my Grandad's Estate. You know I can absolutely understand the position you find yourself in having experienced similar myself. I typed out a long reply but deleted it because I don't want to appear patronising. Please consider yourself in this and that your dad might have to do some things he doesn't like because you have responsibilities to many other people too. My Dad lacks capacity. He doesn't understand. He doesn't remember what anyone tells him from one day to the next. I can tell him the situation all I like (and I have), it'll not be retained unfortunately. You should see the stream of confusion in my email inbox over the past two months. Some of it makes absolutely no sense in any language and much is the same thing but sent repeatedly at different times of the day/night because he's forgotten he's sent it. My Dad has been put under DoLS during his stay because he wasn't deemed able to make competent decisions and was effectively being held against his will. " At one point we had to put my mum in residential care against her wishes. None of us wanted to do it but the alternative was my dad or me or both literally breaking down in which case the whole line of dominoes would have fallen over. Is it possible for your dad to go into residential care even for a couple of weeks to give you time to sort things out? | |||
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"Does your local authority have a crisis team? He's in a different LA. They've got an out of hours emergency SC team? " Have you spoken to them? | |||
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"You’re lucky they didn’t just put him in a taxi and send him home!! Apologies if I don't find this comforting. Once he's home without the previously agreed 2x care visits, someone has to support him. That'll be me. Disabled myself and over an hour's drive away AND responsible for a 5yo on school holidays. And trying to work FT. And trying (still) to resolve my Grandad's Estate. You know I can absolutely understand the position you find yourself in having experienced similar myself. I typed out a long reply but deleted it because I don't want to appear patronising. Please consider yourself in this and that your dad might have to do some things he doesn't like because you have responsibilities to many other people too. My Dad lacks capacity. He doesn't understand. He doesn't remember what anyone tells him from one day to the next. I can tell him the situation all I like (and I have), it'll not be retained unfortunately. You should see the stream of confusion in my email inbox over the past two months. Some of it makes absolutely no sense in any language and much is the same thing but sent repeatedly at different times of the day/night because he's forgotten he's sent it. My Dad has been put under DoLS during his stay because he wasn't deemed able to make competent decisions and was effectively being held against his will. At one point we had to put my mum in residential care against her wishes. None of us wanted to do it but the alternative was my dad or me or both literally breaking down in which case the whole line of dominoes would have fallen over. Is it possible for your dad to go into residential care even for a couple of weeks to give you time to sort things out?" Tried that via the SW. Short answer - no. Long answer - they thought he'd abscond because he's so desperate to go home and that it'd be safer to send him home with a care package. The same care package that they've completely reversed on since Friday lunchtime  | |||
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"Does your local authority have a crisis team? He's in a different LA. They've got an out of hours emergency SC team? Have you spoken to them?" Not since the SW last spoke to me about the alleged care package, no. I wouldn't have thought to call the out of hours SC team about this to be honest. They would appear to have been party to the decision. | |||
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"You’re lucky they didn’t just put him in a taxi and send him home!! Apologies if I don't find this comforting. Once he's home without the previously agreed 2x care visits, someone has to support him. That'll be me. Disabled myself and over an hour's drive away AND responsible for a 5yo on school holidays. And trying to work FT. And trying (still) to resolve my Grandad's Estate. You know I can absolutely understand the position you find yourself in having experienced similar myself. I typed out a long reply but deleted it because I don't want to appear patronising. Please consider yourself in this and that your dad might have to do some things he doesn't like because you have responsibilities to many other people too. My Dad lacks capacity. He doesn't understand. He doesn't remember what anyone tells him from one day to the next. I can tell him the situation all I like (and I have), it'll not be retained unfortunately. You should see the stream of confusion in my email inbox over the past two months. Some of it makes absolutely no sense in any language and much is the same thing but sent repeatedly at different times of the day/night because he's forgotten he's sent it. My Dad has been put under DoLS during his stay because he wasn't deemed able to make competent decisions and was effectively being held against his will. At one point we had to put my mum in residential care against her wishes. None of us wanted to do it but the alternative was my dad or me or both literally breaking down in which case the whole line of dominoes would have fallen over. Is it possible for your dad to go into residential care even for a couple of weeks to give you time to sort things out? Tried that via the SW. Short answer - no. Long answer - they thought he'd abscond because he's so desperate to go home and that it'd be safer to send him home with a care package. The same care package that they've completely reversed on since Friday lunchtime "The residential care my mum was in was almost impossible to abscond from. We did have to pay but it was worth every penny | |||
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"Does your local authority have a crisis team? He's in a different LA. They've got an out of hours emergency SC team? Have you spoken to them? Not since the SW last spoke to me about the alleged care package, no. I wouldn't have thought to call the out of hours SC team about this to be honest. They would appear to have been party to the decision. " Worth a try? | |||
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"I cannot afford to pay for residential care for my father. My salary (along with Mr KC's significantly lower salary) is supporting our household of currently 4 adults and a child. It's contributing to my brother's (2 adults, 2 kids) and also I'm paying my Dad's debts because he has minus £800. I can't afford residential care. SW has effectively decided against attempting local authority funded residential care and admitted he might need to suffer another serious fall before being deemed unfit to live independently. " I'm sorry. I can feel how awful this is for you and I'm trying to offer any resolution I can think of from my experiences. I know how annoying it is when people make suggestions that you know either won't work or are out of your reach. | |||
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"I cannot afford to pay for residential care for my father. My salary (along with Mr KC's significantly lower salary) is supporting our household of currently 4 adults and a child. It's contributing to my brother's (2 adults, 2 kids) and also I'm paying my Dad's debts because he has minus £800. I can't afford residential care. SW has effectively decided against attempting local authority funded residential care and admitted he might need to suffer another serious fall before being deemed unfit to live independently. I'm sorry. I can feel how awful this is for you and I'm trying to offer any resolution I can think of from my experiences. I know how annoying it is when people make suggestions that you know either won't work or are out of your reach. " Sorry I'm not biting hands off. I just don't see how the situation can be remedied and am freaking out about how we will cope with his ongoing needs as his dementia advances and he becomes ever more reliant. I simply am useless for care, but feel that my own disability has been discounted completely by his LA social care team. I'm someone else's problem many miles away. | |||
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"I cannot afford to pay for residential care for my father. My salary (along with Mr KC's significantly lower salary) is supporting our household of currently 4 adults and a child. It's contributing to my brother's (2 adults, 2 kids) and also I'm paying my Dad's debts because he has minus £800. I can't afford residential care. SW has effectively decided against attempting local authority funded residential care and admitted he might need to suffer another serious fall before being deemed unfit to live independently. I'm sorry. I can feel how awful this is for you and I'm trying to offer any resolution I can think of from my experiences. I know how annoying it is when people make suggestions that you know either won't work or are out of your reach. Sorry I'm not biting hands off. I just don't see how the situation can be remedied and am freaking out about how we will cope with his ongoing needs as his dementia advances and he becomes ever more reliant. I simply am useless for care, but feel that my own disability has been discounted completely by his LA social care team. I'm someone else's problem many miles away. " I've been through it, I know exactly how you're feeling. It's no help to you though | |||
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I hope you manage to get your dad sorted. | |||
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"My brother has been waiting at the house since lunchtime and he's not yet turned up. No comms from hospital, no-one answers the phone. Dad phoned brother with some garbled message about someone taking his trolley (we have no idea what that means) and so it seems the discharge is delayed but allegedly still planned for today. Other than Dad calling on his mobile, we can't get through to either his ward or the discharge team. It either rings out (no voicemail) or is engaged. " I wish I could say this is unusual. I hope this resolves | |||
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"My brother has been waiting at the house since lunchtime and he's not yet turned up. No comms from hospital, no-one answers the phone. Dad phoned brother with some garbled message about someone taking his trolley (we have no idea what that means) and so it seems the discharge is delayed but allegedly still planned for today. Other than Dad calling on his mobile, we can't get through to either his ward or the discharge team. It either rings out (no voicemail) or is engaged. " OMG I’m so mad for you | |||
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"18:20 - phonecall from Dad's hospital ward, where he's been for just over 8 weeks Them: we're discharging him home tomorrow before midday. Me: errrrr what happened to 24hrs notice? He has no keys, no food in the house and there's minor issues like I have to work tomorrow [I'm chairing an interview panel, in person] Them: we forgot about the 24hrs notice. Me: can you delay till Weds, when I can try to work remotely from his house? Them: no, the discharge paperwork has been done and now discharge is closed till 09:00 tomorrow Me: can you not sort it at 09:00 tomorrow? Them: no, he'll be in the discharge lounge just after breakfast (which is a about 08:00!) Me: he has no food. No keys. I. Cannot. Come. Tomorrow. Until. After. Work. Them: errrrr we'll try and sort it in the morning. How can they try to discharge elderly people, who have dementia, without giving any sort of notice? To a house they KNOW must have no food (because he's been in for 8wks with no "end" date) and no way of getting into his house (they know I took his wallet and keys away in May, because they ASKED me to, for safekeeping). When they KNOW the only relatives live well over an hour away, both with young children and FT jobs (because we've explained several times). I'm not a neglectful daughter by any means. But I can't just drop work for the next morning, after 18:20 when my manager has finished and won't be back till the morning! And they KNOW I'm also disabled and struggle to do things like carry shopping into a house with a giant step at the front, and rely on my own husband to do that stuff here (because I've told them and they've seen me in my wheelchair). It's ridiculous "Don't they have to have a care package in place.? It's typical of nhs in my experience. Maybe go straight to pals or the ceo? | |||
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"My brother has been waiting at the house since lunchtime and he's not yet turned up. No comms from hospital, no-one answers the phone. Dad phoned brother with some garbled message about someone taking his trolley (we have no idea what that means) and so it seems the discharge is delayed but allegedly still planned for today. Other than Dad calling on his mobile, we can't get through to either his ward or the discharge team. It either rings out (no voicemail) or is engaged. " So all this he will be sat in the Discharge lounge from 8 PM you need to get him was unnecessary! | |||
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"My brother has been waiting at the house since lunchtime and he's not yet turned up. No comms from hospital, no-one answers the phone. Dad phoned brother with some garbled message about someone taking his trolley (we have no idea what that means) and so it seems the discharge is delayed but allegedly still planned for today. Other than Dad calling on his mobile, we can't get through to either his ward or the discharge team. It either rings out (no voicemail) or is engaged. " I hope you get this all sorted, must be a total nightmare | |||
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"Over 2hrs later, my brother is STILL waiting at his house. He finally got through to the ward 15mins ago. They say he should be on the next ambulance transport. But no one knows when that is. My brother has taken a completely unnecessary unpaid day off work, risking his probationary status and I am sending him money equivalent to wages lost. All for no reason. My brother could have gone to work and driven down after he finished at 4pm ish and Dad would STILL not have been home. And my Dad has been sitting in a discharge lounge since this morning. Angry doesn't even come close. " Please when you can put a complaint in! This is appalling way to treat you all! My uncle was Ill with cancer didn’t have long to live and they put him in a corridor to wait on hospital transport to take him home and he was elderly. Suffice to say he didn’t last very long after that, fuckers!! | |||
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"Over 2hrs later, my brother is STILL waiting at his house. He finally got through to the ward 15mins ago. They say he should be on the next ambulance transport. But no one knows when that is. My brother has taken a completely unnecessary unpaid day off work, risking his probationary status and I am sending him money equivalent to wages lost. All for no reason. My brother could have gone to work and driven down after he finished at 4pm ish and Dad would STILL not have been home. And my Dad has been sitting in a discharge lounge since this morning. Angry doesn't even come close. " Understandably. Speak to pals and also to the ceo while you're still furious. | |||
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I hope your dad accepts the carers, it is beyond difficult.
A lady that i chat to regularly is about to go into a home and in honest i think it will be the best thing for her
I hope you get sorted and sorry i can't offer more help /assistance | |||
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